Was browsing the SOE Class Boards and came accross this little gem...
Quote
Wanna know what happened? The beastlord happened. The primary function of a shaman in groups is 1) slow. The beastlord has every bit as good a slow as a shaman. In fact, the beastlord is, in effect, a shaman that can fight and has a FAR more powerful pet. Think about it. The shaman slow is 75pct; the bsty slow is 65pct. That = no freakin difference. Even the bstlords buffs are EXTREMELY high lvl shaman buffs. Beastlords get celerity for cryin out loud. That spell is only 1 step down from the best shaman haste. In essence, SoE has completely eliminated the shaman by giving beastlords all the shaman abilities but none of its drawbacks (i.e. low dps). The beastlord has no weak points. His pet is superior to shaman. His spells are the equal of shaman. And lastly, his own melee ability far exceeds shaman. So, lets see...would i rather have a shaman in my group or would i rather have a shaman with a kick butt pet and melee skills to add far more dps. It's a no-brainer. As powerful a pet that the beastlord has, and givin his overall dps and high level shaman buffs, a shaman would have to be able to tank like a warrior just to get groups over the beastlord. How to fix it? Make beastlords mitigate like a blackburrow gnoll. And why not? Their pet is far superior and should more than make up for a lack of HP and mitigation. Futhermore, it would lend BALANCE between shaman beastlords and Monks. Effectively giving a shaman a fighting chance at getting groups. OR, take away the high level shaman spells the beastlord has. There are many ways to balance the classes, but continuing to upgrade casters and add abilities to already overpowered classes thru versitility is NOT going to work.
This was in response to a Bard who had posted begging SOE to fix Shamans because their numbers were dwindling and not available for high lvl content.
Why do some people hate Beasties? Is it our fault we were given a nice slow and mini Shaman buffs? I'm sorry Shaman feel left out by SOE, but that's no reason to decrease Beast Lord buffs or mitigation. Why on earth would this person call for a nerf to us? Why not simply increase Shaman abilities?
My goodness, there seems to be a lot of whining that goes on in those class boards (not just Shaman but others) in regards to our abilities. Mages don't like us because of our pet and pet heals, and now Shaman don't like us because oh gosh, being their hybrid class we share some of their abilities. I know Shaman are feeling the pinch due to being "left in the dust" as it were by SOE, and I'm sorry they feel that way, but there is no need to bash another class because you're angry about your own setbacks.
Now I like Shaman, I like Mages, heck I appreciate all the classes and what they can do. Is anyone else frustrated at seeing other classes bash us? Are we overpowered? Do any Beasties feel we are just too powerful?
*takes a deep breath*
Ok, thanks for letting me get that off my chest. Oh and Hi, I'm new to the boards. :D I apologise for my first post being a little ranty and long, but gosh do posts like the one I quoted ever make me angry.
This article isn't very smart. Since I retired a Shaman to play a Beastlord these are my conclusions. I actually had this debate with a friend this very afternoon. Shamans cannot properly do any sort of dps without drawing agro. Another problem is that their heals are falling further and further behind. The upgrades to Quiesence are good, but its only helping them in areas that weren't hurting. The growing need for charm has also gave enchanters a big leg up over Shaman. I was never a big fan of them putting Shield of the Arcane on pure-melee ornate BP and this reduced the need for focus.
Anyhow, this is just due to Shamans going from one of the most powerful classes (around luclin/velious) to the weak class they are now. :)
We are all the time bashed for being "too powerful",and we are very powerful,but if they want to nerf us,it is messed up!! :shock: ,make shammie slow 5% better or 10% better,and upgrade there spells,dont nerf bsts cause SoE gave us mini shammie spells,that are comparable to the shammies.
yea and if I swing my journeymans stick I can debuff like a shaman and my chloroblast is perfectly fine for exp grps, poor clerics / druids / shamans, oh and I never go oom too
such one sided BS info u posted there in the quote--
on noes teh bast'ord is takin me spot in easy ldons !
You have to get used to it if you're gonna play a beastlord. Half of what that guy posted is stupidly wrong. The basic premise that we get all of a shaman's abilities with no downsides is plain silly.
Sure, if you have a group with a chanter, warrior, cleric, druid and mage, maybe you'd want a beastlord instead of a shaman for that last spot, because the shaman's healing isn't really needed and there are plenty of other debuffers.
But if you have a group with a Paladin, druid, bard, ranger and rogue, and you're going to do something tough or resistant, you might actually prefer a shaman to a beastlord, because the shaman can really help the druid out as far as heals are concerned, can play avatar bish to the ranger and rogue, and if the mobs are resistant then a shaman can use his -40 resist mod slow and maloxxxx on top of that. And the group will have better stat and hp buffs than they would with a beastlord.
I have a cleric friend who won't xp in hard zones (Kodtaz/Qvic+) unless a shaman or chanter is slowing, because the more slow bounces the more mana he has to burn by spam healing the tank.
Who cares what other classes say about us beastlords.
What I care about is what Beastlords say about Beastlords.
no offence intended but this needs to be moved to the rants forums if you were asking my opinion on the subject.
Welcome to the boards btw
In KT we do fine, in Yxtta (nice xp zone btw) i wouldnt slow without debuffer, had my cleric-friend go actually as low as 70% mana there without debuff .)
QuoteHow to fix it? Make beastlords mitigate like a blackburrow gnoll.
This person obviously hasn't played a Beastlord or seen one tank. We already mitigate like a blackburrow gnoll - we're almost entirely avoidance based as tanks.
QuoteEven the bstlords buffs are EXTREMELY high lvl shaman buffs
Saying things like this, "extremely", is like saying 'always and never'. It's just not true. Only one exception and the argument is moot. These people need to get a grip.
Every time I see a post like this it makes me laugh at the ignorance.
Ask any 2 boxer which class he would 2 box with if his main was a SK, paly or Warrior? He'll pick the Shaman over the Beastlord every time.
Only the original guy in the quote would have to ask why.
QuoteThe shaman slow is 75pct; the bsty slow is 65pct. That = no freakin difference
Talk about clueless. A 75% Slow will reduce a mobs damage output to (1-0.75)=25% of its unslowed dps. A 65% Slow will reduce a mobs damage to (1-0.65)=35% of its unslowed dps. That means a 65% slowed mob is doing 35/25 = 1.4x as much damage as a 75% slowed mob. That's also 40% less dps taken for the MT; a difference comparable to having a warrior vs a beastlord as the MT for a raid.
/hugs
Oh, it's a mycrazytrain thread.
In other words, a Bard is trolling on the Shaman boards by claiming to champion Shammy's. What a bore.
High level shaman spells? WTF. Most of the spells we get up to like lvl 49 shaman spells maybe a few fromt he low 50's. Just like every hybrid gets from their caster parent.
I used to be a 60 shaman when i quit the first time. At lvl 60, I could definitly "out-spell" the beast. Only thing I can think of that is close is Avatar vs Savagery.
OH WAIT...... Acumen is a high level 56 spell. Kragg and the uber CBlast is lvl 55. My god. There is power.
I would love to have Pox of Bertox and Bane of Nife.
Definitly in a raid or high level groups, shamans are better for slowing and debuffing.
Want to see some beastlord hate? Check out some of the old posts on the EQ2 boards. The debate died down recently, but, my goodness! when it was going strong we were blamed for everything perceived to be wrong with EQ1. Most of it class was jealousy or rage over us breaking the old crappy "holy trinity" perfect group mold.
The devs said no beastlords on release but myabe in an expansion. A few months after release when the bugs are mostly worked out and they start thinking of expansions again, I'll be happy to throw some more gas on the fire and get people talking about beastlords again in EQ2. Game on! :twisted:
Most people (note: 80% of EQ Popuolation) are Casual Players. They do not think outside of a 6 man group. Keep that in mind when ever you see these "Nerf XXXX!".
Rather then saying "Fix us" they almost always say "Fix us, Nerf them".
Beastlords are very well balanced and bring a lot to a group or a raid. Shaman also bring a lot to a group or a raid.
This person points to Beastlords and says "We Shaman will be better if they nerf Beastlords."
People tend to complain when others 'step on there toes' or 'do things better' then they do and rather then saying "COOL! They got XXX which adds a lot of power which means they are more useful to me!" they say "Nerf such and such so my class is better".
What kind of ass backwards thinking is that?
#1: Sony will not "Nerf" Beastlords. They see our balance. Every single class in Everquest should be compared to Beastlords in terms of balance. Sony could not have created a more perfect, well balanced class Beastlords. We can do everything needed and do it welll.
Beastlords are nice rounded around BoT level, still nice in Ele, somewhat nice in time and begin to suck in GoD. Lets see what level 70 and some upgrade do to us, prolly bring back the well rounded class it was around tier3.
http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=shamanbalance&message.id=3783
Here's the link to that article. I got tired of going back and forth also :twisted:
Well if you look at Psychiatrist Elisabeth Kubler-Ross five-stage model of the grief process.
The second stage is Anger where the person is prone to Blame Others[\b].
Perhaps these classes just haven't come to terms with the fact that they aren't the greatest thing since sliced bread and never will be.
Quote from: SharrienWant to see some beastlord hate? Check out some of the old posts on the EQ2 boards. The debate died down recently, but, my goodness! when it was going strong we were blamed for everything perceived to be wrong with EQ1. Most of it class was jealousy or rage over us breaking the old crappy "holy trinity" perfect group mold.
The devs said no beastlords on release but myabe in an expansion. A few months after release when the bugs are mostly worked out and they start thinking of expansions again, I'll be happy to throw some more gas on the fire and get people talking about beastlords again in EQ2. Game on! :twisted:
Which is why you will never see me in EQ2! A Norrath without a furry Beastlord just ain't worth living in!
I haven't followed EQ2 much, but I am tempted to make a fuzzy ranger. We'll just have to see if/when I ever get into the friggin beta :x
Quote from: Savrik-KaranaI haven't followed EQ2 much, but I am tempted to make a fuzzy ranger. We'll just have to see if/when I ever get into the friggin beta :x
Not even sure if there are Vah Shir in the expansion... didn't they blow up Luclin? I know I see a Vah Shir in the EQ2 video/ad, but where would we live now?
QuoteI know I see a Vah Shir in the EQ2 video/ad, but where would we live now?
Thats a Kerran, a different humanoid cat race that originates from Odus. Before Vah Shir came along in Luclin I used to see a Kerran and think gee they'd make an awesome monk class (hehe).
Check them out, easiest place to see them is at the pier in Stonebrunt Mountains and they have an entire town zone all the way north (across the water) of Erudin in Tox forest. Theres also some island with a small kerran village in Erudins Crossing that the ships used to dock at while travelling to Erudin.
Quote from: a_moss_snake_001Theres also some island with a small kerran village in Erudins Crossing that the ships used to dock at while travelling to Erudin.
Minor thread derail--
Yup yup. Good ol'Wisp Isle. Not much there--which is really great if you like solitude--except wisps, an Orge quest NPC, a rather dour Erudite quest NPC,a few vampire bats, spiders, snakes, and Kerrans--none of these have ever aggro'd me.
In the water there's several NPCs--some are quest and have never aggro'd, and a few suicide KoS (a shark, the undead sailors at sunken ship).
The translocator from the South Qeynos docks will send you there, and there's a translocator to send you back. Somtimes, the poor little Gnome gets aggro'd by the occasional Desert Madman and ends up in the water around the pier, so if you don't see the Gnome, just swim around near the dock to find him.
Kerrans are pretty cool, unless you've damaged faction somewhere, they'll buy/sell to anyone--don't say much though, and that's fine with me. Good place for lvl 14ish to hunt Wisps for Greater Lightstone quest (of course, making that run out to the N. Karansas is way long w/o SoW, especially if you get thwacked and then have to CR) :D
/end Minor Thread Derail
Vah Shir are Kerrans. They're just the nobles of the race that got tossed to the moon in the war. The Kerrans in EQ2 are a product of the Vah Shir and Kerrans re-intigrating.
Quote from: Savrik-KaranaThe Kerrans in EQ2 are a product of the Vah Shir and Kerrans re-intigrating.
re-intigrating thats a pleasant word for it.
I hope they did the re-integrating in a blender....
Oh, and next stop...have a large piece of the moon crash down on Gukta, and wipe out the dirty toads, but somehow leave Grobb (as it should be called) intact enough to allow the trolls to reinhabitate it.
Imagine the hate if the lesser peasants found out that our Warders can give their masters 96% res after level 60.
BC
OMG, don't tell them, Bloodcelt. Next thing you know, they will find out our warders can cast complete heal too. Last thing we want is the lesser peasants finding out all our sekrits.
Quote from: XarilokOh, and next stop...have a large piece of the moon crash down on Gukta, and wipe out the dirty toads, but somehow leave Grobb (as it should be called) intact enough to allow the trolls to reinhabitate it.
Well, not quite but here is some news that might interest you...
QuoteGukta was the first casualty of the expanding Rallosian Empire before the Shattering, and the Frogloks were almost completely wiped out by the onslaught of the Ogres. They only escaped genocide by taking refuge deep in the lowest portions of Guk, where the Rallosians had difficulty pursuing them. The surviving Frogloks have a deep-seeded hatred of Ogres, surpassing even their ancient disdain for the Trolls. Frogloks will abhor anything touched by the influence of Rallos Zek, as they consider him the ultimate architect of evil.
OMG WOOT!
As for the re-integrating of the Vah Shir and the Kerrans... I did my part...
Recent Norrath history:
On one of my journies, I was badly wounded, both mentally and physically. This is when i sought refuge on Kerra Island. I found a mate there (hey, you get in heat, what you do) and had a small litter of 4 cute kittens. My mate was killed by filthy Erudites, who used his body for their foul magic. As such I left my litter in the hands of the Kerrans and went on revenge and rampage among the Erudites, and had a rather nice frenzy in Paineel.
FFWD to the EQ2 era:
My great-great-granchild was named after me, Prowess, as a memory to the Vah Shir who lived among the Kerrans as one of them. She has picked up a sensation for pain and a prowess in battle from her great-great-granny - Who died after overthrowing King Raja's male centered society, and succeeded, resulting in the Sisterhood of the Savageclaw ruling Shar Val.
Her picture is now my Avatar... as she will return to make right what the gods made wrong...