Came across this in a spell search on alla -- 3 different versions
Bestial Bloodrage - 2 minute duration
Increase 1H Blunt Damage Modifier by 100%/125%/150%
Decrease Hitpoints by 750 per tick
Trigger Effect: Bestial Bloodrage Recourse on Fade
Decrease Hate by 1200
Fear Immunity
Pet Flurry Chance (40)/(45)/(50)
Recourse is
25% Chance to trigger: Bloodrage Exhaustion ----- 5 million HP dmg :-o
5% Chance to trigger: Bloodrage Resurgence ----- 20k heal :|
Trigger text -
Cast on you: You send your warder into a bloodrage.
Cast on other: Soandso enters a bloodrage.
Effect Fades: Your warder's blood begins to cool.
I gotta say, if this is a new AA or something it looks flawed. 1) ungeared, most of pets attacks seem to be more h2h type damage, not blunt. Even so, what happens if you have piercing or slashing weapons equipped? 2) How is the DoT on warder going to interact with Pet rune effects? 3) Fear immunity is good, but tying it to a specific AA that looks like it will have issues stacking with something Like Empathic Fury has issues. 4) Pet Flurry chance - this is the same thing blood frenzy has for an effect now and at the high end of pet flurry aas it doesn't look like it does much, if anything. 5) 1 in 4 chance of pet going poof!?! Ridiculous - If we can't replace our own pet gear, that's 3k hp and 210 ac or somethng down the drain on a full mage gear setup and unless you've spent an extra 10 minutes pocketing a buffed pet, you're going to have to stop and resummon. Beyond that, warders are a specific entity, tied to us. Unlike other pet classes, the role playing side of things makes using this sort of casual pet sacrificial mentality wrong.
If this is for Thule, it is going to need major changes or it will end up on the do not use under any circumstances list, like so many of our abilities to date.
The devs just don't seem to be able to understand the difference between a beastlord's warder and other classes' pets. Until they do, we're going to see a portion of our AAs/Spells be useless even before they are made.
We should never ever ever ever have anything we cast or proc that kills or even has a % chance to kill the warder. Thats just... wrong Wrong enough that it goes against our entire class definition of our warder.
The 1h blunt is odd too.. unless maybe they are finally giving us our own summoned weapons/gear for warder? While maybe the orge bear pet could maybe swing some hammers I think my wolf is gona have some trouble holding them :-P
I don't know how accurate it is but I was talking to some people about feralise (shaman spell) and I was told for the 1hb bonus in that hth was regarded as 1hb.
As I said no idea how accurate it is. Also are not our pets already immune to fear after a certain level?
That aside I would never use this.
1HB is just what those spells goto by default unless the devs mark it as all skills, that little bug has slipped by them on a few abilities in the past. As far as the ability goes, NO WAY, we should not have an ability that has a good chance of killing our pet, we just have too much of our own DPS tied to warder to just have him killed. We are not SKs who can risk their pet for more DPS and be fine.
The recourse would just get blocked by prism skin.
lol.
Runes might be negated by the 750hp dot....not sure how that would work. Either way, I'm not in favor of a pet sacrificing AA, even one that doesn't fire all the time. Instead of a DT, make the exhaustion recourse a 25% melee debuff or something like that. Just don't kill my warder!!
Quote from: Sharrien on July 17, 2010, 02:03:01 AM
Runes might be negated by the 750hp dot....not sure how that would work.
It largely depends on if the spell is flagged beneficial, or detrimental.
If it's beneficial, nothing will be blocked.
If it's detrimental, the entire spell will be blocked and there won't BE a deathtouch to block in the first place.
That spell needs a lot of work. :-P
Just save pet DA, and hit it at the end :-D
On a more serious note, I agree...I'm not a fan of killing the warder either.
Maybe if they come summoned with a full set of mage summoned pet gear OR if it's a super-dps-boost that would be used like..in an emergency and hit for ALOT of damage.
Abilities like manaburn or lifeburn comes to my mind...but even those are instant damage types, while this one needs 2 mins to bring all it's dps out.
Aren't pets already fear immune (echoing sikkem)?
What does -1200 hate mean on a spell that targets our warder? I thought he liked me.
25% chance to kill warder = what?
Also keep in mind that 25 and 5 only add up to 30 - that's a 70% chance for this spell to do absolutely nothing.
Quote from: Inphared on July 17, 2010, 09:03:42 PM
Also keep in mind that 25 and 5 only add up to 30 - that's a 70% chance for this spell to do absolutely nothing.
Any chance of killing off our pet is bad, our pets are not meant to be disposable.
Quote from: bradam on July 16, 2010, 09:16:40 PM
We should never ever ever ever have anything we cast or proc that kills or even has a % chance to kill the warder. Thats just... wrong Wrong enough that it goes against our entire class definition of our warder.
Quote from: Camikazi on July 17, 2010, 09:07:49 PM
Any chance of killing off our pet is bad, our pets are not meant to be disposable.
Like what these beasties have said. Warder is not a summoned mage pet but an integral component of a Beastlords abilities and lore. Not a snowballs chance in ...erm...Plane of fire should we sacrifice fluffy except in dire run-away-mode.
Quote from: Inphared on July 17, 2010, 09:03:42 PM
Also keep in mind that 25 and 5 only add up to 30 - that's a 70% chance for this spell to do absolutely nothing.
No it's a 70% chance for the recourse to do nothing.
My problem with that personally is that I and I am sure some others have zero luck with the RNG. Possum has an 80% success rate according to the devs and I know human nature means you notice the failures more than the successes but it is not uncommon for me to have 5 or more failures in a row.
Oh well its still very early on. My concern is as stated by others is this kind of Spell/AA/Disc/Vet Reward shows that the devs don't understand beastlords.
Edited for Nusa.
Actually, it looks like it's being set up as an AA ability, not a spell. Of course, it's very early yet.
Quote from: Nusa on July 17, 2010, 10:06:58 PM
Actually, it looks like it's being set up as an AA ability, not a spell. Of course, it's very early yet.
Aye, given that it's DCRONKHITE (Elidroth), the AA dev, and not Aristo...it'll be a shitty mini-pet AA disc that lasts too long and we don't want as a supposed way to improve our burst (which isn't 2 minutes) dps.
Has anyone seen anything resembling this on Test or heard anything on beta? I'm wondering where this info popped up from. I see it's from Alla but how was it uploaded?
I'm going to take a little look and see what I find on it.
<EDIT>
I looked everywhere on both Alla and Lucy. No info on the entries such as who entered the info but its been in the database since April. :?
Since it is pre-beta (maybe?) it could be changed drastically in the weeks and months prior to beta and live. I hope. Otherwise I doubt if I'd ever buy it much less use it.
What I fear is that this kind of disc on our pet won't be enough to want to use it...while risking a dead pet.
You have to remember our warders melee dps is craptastic to begin with too...even with this disc, I doubt it'll do more dps than a mage pet without any disc.
As it stands now...half of our pets dps comes from Vaxtn and other procs...count off those, and our warders melee dps isn't worth mentioning.
It'd need to boost it's melee like 10 x to be noticed :P
http://kumbaja.antonius-bayle.org/spell/view/23694
appears to be a AA for Beastlords but beyond that I have no clue on the AA
Beta is not open yet, so just got to wait and see and feedback when it pops
Any idea when Beta will open? I need to get in and this time get my shamans account admitted.
no clue, but there will be no off site Beta Boards allowed, they made strict rules.
Quote from: Tadenea on July 20, 2010, 02:52:01 AM
there will be no off site Beta Boards allowed, they made strict rules.
Morons.
Yeah that looks like garbage. Try harder devs. You are making us wait for a fix. Make it worthwhile.
Quote from: Khauruk on July 20, 2010, 05:08:22 AM
Quote from: Tadenea on July 20, 2010, 02:52:01 AM
there will be no off site Beta Boards allowed, they made strict rules.
Morons.
Of course, they can't really stop people from doing this if they use names which aren't tied to their characters and aren't obvious.
There are so few of us voiciferous beasts about these days, can we get some VIP beta invites instead of "hoping". I didn't get into the last one either :(
Yeah, the latest system of getting into beta sucks more then just a little.
How close is this to frenzied burnout dps wise? I dont think that one kills mage pet tho..
Quote from: bradam on July 20, 2010, 03:59:52 PM
How close is this to frenzied burnout dps wise? I dont think that one kills mage pet tho..
Frenzied Burnout used to kill Mage Pets but that was changed
Mage Frenzied Burnout = http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=21837&source=Test
Beastlord Bloodrage = http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=23695&source=Live
side note looks like Bloodrage does last 2min so probably one of those burn everything got on name/boss etc
Here's a CRAZY idea.. How about you wait until beta and actually try some of these ideas before you panic. That's why we have beta afterall.
By the way.. the spell data you're looking at is old as I was in the middle of working on it when the data was sent for the patch. So it's quite different than what's actually there.
Or you could continue to panic.. your choice afterall.
Oh, would hardly call this discussion a panic, what do we look like to you, a bunch of rangers or SKs??
I wonder what the recast would be, and if aas to lengthen it would be added.
Our warders really do suck, my sk pet is outdpsing -- meleewise--my warder... (though the sk pet does die in one hit snicker). Only my pet procs make my warder do marginally mnore dps and thats with em7!
Quote from: Sharrien on July 20, 2010, 06:16:36 PM
Oh, would hardly call this discussion a panic, what do we look like to you, a bunch of rangers or SKs??
ahem, I play a ranger as my main
Quote from: Tadenea on July 20, 2010, 07:23:57 PM
Quote from: Sharrien on July 20, 2010, 06:16:36 PM
Oh, would hardly call this discussion a panic, what do we look like to you, a bunch of rangers or SKs??
ahem, I play a ranger as my main
:-D
Quote from: Elidroth on July 20, 2010, 05:24:29 PM
Here's a CRAZY idea.. How about you wait until beta and actually try some of these ideas before you panic. That's why we have beta afterall.
By the way.. the spell data you're looking at is old as I was in the middle of working on it when the data was sent for the patch. So it's quite different than what's actually there.
Or you could continue to panic.. your choice afterall.
Thanks for the stop by.
Quote from: Tadenea on July 20, 2010, 07:23:57 PM
Quote from: Sharrien on July 20, 2010, 06:16:36 PM
Oh, would hardly call this discussion a panic, what do we look like to you, a bunch of rangers or SKs??
ahem, I play a ranger as my main
:-P :wink:
Quote from: Tadenea on July 20, 2010, 07:23:57 PM
Quote from: Sharrien on July 20, 2010, 06:16:36 PM
Oh, would hardly call this discussion a panic, what do we look like to you, a bunch of rangers or SKs??
ahem, I play a ranger as my main
You're not a completely inane ranger since your behavior is modified by playing a bst!
Quote from: Elidroth on July 20, 2010, 05:24:29 PM
Here's a CRAZY idea.. How about you wait until beta and actually try some of these ideas before you panic. That's why we have beta afterall.
By the way.. the spell data you're looking at is old as I was in the middle of working on it when the data was sent for the patch. So it's quite different than what's actually there.
Or you could continue to panic.. your choice afterall.
Thanks for the heads up on the spell data. :-D
Just a heads up also, past experiences have shown pretty much nothing gets changed for beastlords in beta and definitely not in a positive manner.
We have then tried the get things changed after beta when the Devs have more time approach and seeing as Ferocity has been on the table for how many years now and the Jaws line was there for about two years you can see that until recently that approach hasn't worked to well either.
So whilst I can understand you current frustrations with us as a class you have to realise that in reality your frustrations should be pointed at the people who held the positions before the current crop, that have driven us to such a state.
All that is really needed is some feedback like you have just given and for the most part we will be happy campers as we are seeing improvements.
Thanks
Quote from: Grbage on July 20, 2010, 01:48:51 PM
Yeah, the latest system of getting into beta sucks more then just a little.
What is the latest system for getting into betas?
Know a guy or get lucky, I think.
Aye, get an invite or submit your name to a pool for random choosing. Pretty lame, since imo it was pretty trivial to get into beta before if you really wanted to.
Quote from: Hzath on July 20, 2010, 09:57:40 PM
Know a guy or get lucky, I think.
So like applying for a CL position :-o
Speaking of, any word on what's happening to that?
This is the hot thread so I'm just asking here.
Quote from: Grbage on July 20, 2010, 08:38:02 PM
Quote from: Tadenea on July 20, 2010, 07:23:57 PM
Quote from: Sharrien on July 20, 2010, 06:16:36 PM
Oh, would hardly call this discussion a panic, what do we look like to you, a bunch of rangers or SKs??
ahem, I play a ranger as my main
You're not a completely inane ranger since your behavior is modified by playing a bst!
Afaik, tadenea does not play a bst.
Thought Tadenea had a bst alt or is that Chanus? Sheesh I can't keep anything straight anymore.
Quote from: Grbage on July 21, 2010, 03:34:39 AM
Thought Tadenea had a bst alt or is that Chanus? Sheesh I can't keep anything straight anymore.
Chanus does. I am not 100% certain on Tadenea but I don't think so.
Thanks Elidroth for stopping by, if you could ensure some of us make it into beta to test this stuff, I doubt you'd find any of us here unwilling.
K
I've been involved in the last 2 betas. I'm fairly certain I should be able to get into this one as well (try hard to get in at least). I don't remember who else was in but I do know of a few.
I did'nt bother trying for SoD or UF, been in a bunch prior to that.
I made it into beta last year, feedbacked the hell outta some of our spell lines ect every day i logged on...
We got some really good changes during beta last year, not enough obviously, but some of the stuff they put in originally was absolutely retarded beyond description.
I was in UF beta too.
And I agree that some of the initial spell ideas were indeed retarded.
Glad they got reworked into something useful...but more work is needed still :)
we will see where it goes this year im still personaly going to pusg for REAL dubble/tripple atk
When beta opens or even before it opens, why don't those of us who plan to enter or at least attempt to enter get together and hash out the ideas or concerns and take them to the beta devs when we get into beta. The 2 betas I was in, with the exception of a few posts in the soe beta forums I had no contact with other bsts from this forum. PM me and we can get it going. I know this is just a rehashing of old desires to get our class noticed or ideas but beta is where I think we can get something done.
Quote from: Blarp on July 22, 2010, 05:14:36 PM
we will see where it goes this year im still personaly going to pusg for REAL dubble/tripple atk
We have pretty good double attack now, and frankly, we don't need more. We need *burst* dps, which the developers have already said they want to give us. Our sustained dps is great.
Quote from: nedoirah on July 23, 2010, 10:41:59 PM
When beta opens or even before it opens, why don't those of us who plan to enter or at least attempt to enter get together and hash out the ideas or concerns and take them to the beta devs when we get into beta. The 2 betas I was in, with the exception of a few posts in the soe beta forums I had no contact with other bsts from this forum. PM me and we can get it going. I know this is just a rehashing of old desires to get our class noticed or ideas but beta is where I think we can get something done.
What remains to be said that hasn't been said here? The developers know what we want, and they know what we can come up with. They have a stated desire to boost our class, and ideas by which they intend to do this. If you have actual new ideas that's great, bring them up now, not later!
http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=166481�
I'll be pushing for Beastlords to get something worth a damn, but honestly, I see way too many classes pissing in the wheaties on those failtown boards and the class might wind up with nothing. Again.
Quote from: Inphared on July 24, 2010, 01:50:05 AM
http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=166481�
I'll be pushing for Beastlords to get something worth a damn, but honestly, I see way too many classes pissing in the wheaties on those failtown boards and the class might wind up with nothing. Again.
Agreed, once the you know who's get in there derailing posts left right and center you know there is going to be basically zero room for sensible conversation.
And if by some strange reason you do there are to many factions within the beastlord community to get an agreement on anything. Would be nice for the Devs to stick their hands up and actually give some decent constructive feedback on their vision of the class.
What is actually needed is what they gave the rangers, a round table forum strictly policed so that other classes could not derail discussions. If we were in such a sorry state as rangers we might get one. :roll:
Still eagerly awaiting that change of class potion to turn up on marketplace as I seriously cant see them doing anywhere near enough work to bring the class up to par with others.
Why would you want a change of class potion, especially considering that gear is largely class or archetype specific? Acquiring the gear is the hardest part these days.
It only took me two weeks to get a mage up to level 85 with 1000 AA's, decent focuses and good enough gear to max out stats. Admittedly, if I'd picked a tank class it would have taken longer to make it a useful tank, but the mage is raidworthy...I've boxed him for extra dps at times.
Quote from: Nusa on July 24, 2010, 02:50:11 AM
Why would you want a change of class potion, especially considering that gear is largely class or archetype specific? Acquiring the gear is the hardest part these days.
It only took me two weeks to get a mage up to level 85 with 1000 AA's, decent focuses and good enough gear to max out stats. Admittedly, if I'd picked a tank class it would have taken longer to make it a useful tank, but the mage is raidworthy...I've boxed him for extra dps at times.
Oh, I don't know...DoN Progression comes to mind, along with any number of other progression tasks, which can't for whatever reason, be easily redone. Tradeskills...I'm sure people sitting on 300 scores and level 7 evolved trophies in all 7 basic tradeskills would rather not have to re-acquire all of them again. Earned server first titles would be another area, as would the "of X" many people might like to keep from their original server(s). Gear is the area where the biggest issue would come in, you're right in that. Unfortunately, some of what people might want to keep might simply not be re-obtainable, like the LL Bronze Purity Augment. Quested gear, especially is a hassle. Epics, BiC Aug, Wanderlust Aug, Coldain & Underfoot Prayer shawls, Cultural templates/Aug quests are all hassles. LL Augs, Fabled items, anniversary rewards, Veteran AAs, Old Man Mackenzie gear buyability, non tradeable alt currency are all issues as well. Faction levels, in some ways, are going to be even more annoying than gear, for type 3 augs, non repeated spells that can't be researched. There are dozens of things people would just prefer to keep and not repeat if they had the option.
Besides, any "class change" potion to swap a beastlord to something else should include gear swapouts. The reason beastlords are changing or are considering changing classes isn't entirely by choice, it's because the Devs can't or won't do their jobs competently/properly/fairly. We, as Beastlord players, shouldn't be the ones bearing the burden of this. They should be putting in a few extra hours a week in each to deal with beastlord issues instead of beastlord players having to put in those hours leveling gearing and flagging a replacement character. The circumstances that have put beastlords in this situation are their responsibility, if not necessarily their fault, either in whole or in part, so they should have to bear at least some of the burden or consequences. Hand wringing, excuses and empty apologies, followed by another year of relegating the beastlord to the back burner, while they go back to improving other classes just isn't going to cut it anymore. Not this time.
In my case, if the Beastlord class isn't improved enough, I'll probably end up quitting. It's not something I particularly want to do, but I will not accept less entertainment value for my dollar because I picked a particular class.
Quote from: Umlat on July 24, 2010, 04:40:56 AM
Quote from: Nusa on July 24, 2010, 02:50:11 AM
Why would you want a change of class potion, especially considering that gear is largely class or archetype specific? Acquiring the gear is the hardest part these days.
It only took me two weeks to get a mage up to level 85 with 1000 AA's, decent focuses and good enough gear to max out stats. Admittedly, if I'd picked a tank class it would have taken longer to make it a useful tank, but the mage is raidworthy...I've boxed him for extra dps at times.
Oh, I don't know...DoN Progression comes to mind, along with any number of other progression tasks, which can't for whatever reason, be easily redone. Tradeskills...I'm sure people sitting on 300 scores and level 7 evolved trophies in all 7 basic tradeskills would rather not have to re-acquire all of them again. Earned server first titles would be another area, as would the "of X" many people might like to keep from their original server(s). Gear is the area where the biggest issue would come in, you're right in that. Unfortunately, some of what people might want to keep might simply not be re-obtainable, like the LL Bronze Purity Augment. Quested gear, especially is a hassle. Epics, BiC Aug, Wanderlust Aug, Coldain & Underfoot Prayer shawls, Cultural templates/Aug quests are all hassles. LL Augs, Fabled items, anniversary rewards, Veteran AAs, Old Man Mackenzie gear buyability, non tradeable alt currency are all issues as well. Faction levels, in some ways, are going to be even more annoying than gear, for type 3 augs, non repeated spells that can't be researched. There are dozens of things people would just prefer to keep and not repeat if they had the option.
Besides, any "class change" potion to swap a beastlord to something else should include gear swapouts. The reason beastlords are changing or are considering changing classes isn't entirely by choice, it's because the Devs can't or won't do their jobs competently/properly/fairly. We, as Beastlord players, shouldn't be the ones bearing the burden of this. They should be putting in a few extra hours a week in each to deal with beastlord issues instead of beastlord players having to put in those hours leveling gearing and flagging a replacement character. The circumstances that have put beastlords in this situation are their responsibility, if not necessarily their fault, either in whole or in part, so they should have to bear at least some of the burden or consequences. Hand wringing, excuses and empty apologies, followed by another year of relegating the beastlord to the back burner, while they go back to improving other classes just isn't going to cut it anymore. Not this time.
In my case, if the Beastlord class isn't improved enough, I'll probably end up quitting. It's not something I particularly want to do, but I will not accept less entertainment value for my dollar because I picked a particular class.
Tradeskills are a non-argument...having them on another toon isn't the same as losing them, or rendering them useless when needed.
Titles I'd consider a non-agrument as well...having them on another toon isn't the same as losing them. I don't even display any titles I do own...my ego doesn't demand it.
Veteran AA's are an account thing more than a toon thing...unless you've burned all your eligibility on toons you never developed.
Epic 1.5, DoN progression up to the spell and Void E progression and sufficient faction to get spells are included in those two weeks, no assistance required. Also Crystallos and MMM base done. Earlier flags are mostly free these days, no need to do them. OMM flagging done too, although of course I got added to raids for that one. All of that was a LOT faster than the first time around and could be done at the same time as leveling.
Gear you agree on. Fabled stuff doesn't matter much anymore...too easy to surpass.
To be clear, my mage is only a box, I have no plans to drop my beast as my main. I don't think there should be a class change ability of any kind...I wasn't the one who brought it up. I just pointed out that starting a new toon is actually pretty easy, and gear issues would be really bad. Even a swap-out, as you suggest, would be incredibly difficult to do given the huge variety of gear that exists.
This post was already pretty well derailed from the original topic, or I wouldn't have said anything at all.
Quote from: Nusa on July 24, 2010, 10:48:13 AM
This post was already pretty well derailed from the original topic, or I wouldn't have said anything at all.
The thread as it was was pretty much dead the minute a Elidroth said the the information in the spell dat was incomplete.
As for the change of class potion, my point in that sentence was actually that I don't think the Devs can do enough in one expansion release to resurrect the class from what they have let it become.
I have levelled a wizard with about 900 aa's and a rogue with around 100 or so atm and am currently also working on a ranger, but that is still a work in progress, to see what class I would like to change to if the class is still in this shape come HoT.
Sadly wizard aside I am enjoying the versatility of the other classes more.
As for you not saying anything.. I am not the first to use the class change potion to empathise a point.
That might have been your intent, but the actual result was to sideline your point, whatever it was, so we can discuss the difficulties of implementing such a potion.
One of the reasons such a potion will never happen is that the labor costs of implementing it would exceed any conceivable benefits of implementing it. In my opinion.
Sorry I posted really late for me one night and didn't post it the way I wanted and it seems to have led to some minor confuson. What I was trying to say was: everyone who is planning on getting into this beta should get together in a board take all these ideas plus any leaked info such as bloodrage and work together so when beta does roll around we can work together while we are in beta and maybe catch a devs ear in real-time not messages or a forum and try to have a meaningful conversation.
Khauruk. I understand your concerns and I'm not sure if you understood what I was trying to say. No I don't have any new information and I wasn't trying to imply that I did. I was asking bsts planning on getting into beta to just get into a single forum or set of messages to talk about what is going on. I know we've talked aobut ways till many of us were fuzzy-faced but here isn't beta and bsts sending PMs to devs with info on this or info on that isn't focusing our efforts. An in-game chat channel with a dev and several bsts at once could focus our efforts more. This is what I'm suggesting.
Inphared. I remember seeing you a couple times on the SoE SoD beta boards and I never got the chance to talk with you. There were many questions I had I wanted to ask you but never got the chance.
Sikkem. you hit it with a bulls-eye. This is the primary reason I think the beta bsts should form a way to communicate outside of these boards to help figure out what is being done before we get into beta.
I feel largely useless in betas because I have almost ZERO communication with other bsts in beta. I want to feel as though I'm helping to fix us.
Really it isn't the lack of discussions between bst during betas that has been the problem. We've had some pretty lively discussions and parsing between the bst and from what I've seen that isn't where the problem is.
The issue has been two fold. Othe classes (mainly monks and mages) trying to derail everything of any consequence while supporting the useless stuff. Secondly and most importantly a complete lack of feed back from most devs, Elidroth at least tries the others might as well be ghosts.