The Beastlords' Den

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=153033&#2233867

I would like to see an upgrade to defensive.  Maybe make it 2x as long or use our pet's hps along with ours?
AA slow
More levels of our aa dot, stun, and attack debuff.
More levels of triple attack.
I would like to see weapon specialization aas.  Like H2H, 1hb, 2hb, p etc that would increase damage or accuracy.
Passive AA for pets to stop attacking during enrage.
Passive AA to reduce Merc cost?
Passive AA to reduce power source drain.
AA to summon a very very weak power source.  One we can use all the time on trash etc.  1/5 of a light power source or something.
Would love a weak version of panther either as AA or spell.  Something around the power level of the DON line shamens have.
AA to position at max Melee range for pet and pc.

notify our CL good one..

we have one of those?

Seriously though, if you DO have things you want to PM, send them to Jyve, I know him well and he is on the right side and is not a mage, so they wont be edited.

Guess I am not counted as a Good CL :( , I think Nodyin did not pass over the AA Wishlist over to New AA person. I did reposted Beastlord AA Wishlist for Elidroth to view, and left links to this post and wishlist post

So let's brainstorm guys.  We were asked for feedback from a dev, now's our oppurtunity.

1 AA attack/disease/poison debuff - seperated or together or partial.
2 Maybe continue our incapcitate line through AA's, hasn't been increased since like level 56.
3 AA to make taste of blood passive? so it's not useless.
4 some sort of pulling/pacify aa (one of our parent classes is a monk right) make it long duration like 10min so not overpowering

Selronis

Quote from: Tadenea on July 08, 2009, 02:51:11 PM
Guess I am not counted as a Good CL :( , I think Nodyin did not pass over the AA Wishlist over to New AA person. I did reposted Beastlord AA Wishlist for Elidroth to view, and left links to this post and wishlist post

We appreciate the work you did to compile the AA wish list Tadenea.  Thanks for following up with it and passing it to the devs.  I'm glad we have one of the CLs actually visit this board since we don't have any that plays a beast as their main.

I am in favor of more offensive aa's and defensive aa's for both us and pet, not just a continuation of the current lines but something unique that would make an inpact.  Our pets have gone by the wayside in comparison to mages and our dps is also falling short. Maybe something like...

Feral Senses: 5 ranks, increase avoidance by 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 for both pet and owner
Feral Spirit: 5 ranks, increase mitigation by 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 for both pet and owner
Double attack: would like to see 5 to 10 more ranks of this
Triple attack: would like to see 5 to 10 more ranks of this
Flurry: maybe 3 to 5 ranks
More crit aa's for both spells and melee

Also read on another post about an aa for summoning weapons/armor for pets, would like to see maybe just an aa ability that allows the pets to be fully equipped on cast of the pet.

An AA that allowed pets to be geared in at least the armor would be excellent. It's hard to convince a mage to give armor every time the pet dies. Make it cost a bit to max out if it's that big a problem, but i think it's an excellent idea.

Quote from: Obsessedwith on July 08, 2009, 05:54:26 PM
I am in favor of more offensive aa's and defensive aa's for both us and pet, not just a continuation of the current lines but something unique that would make an inpact.  Our pets have gone by the wayside in comparison to mages and our dps is also falling short. Maybe something like...

Feral Senses: 5 ranks, increase avoidance by 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 for both pet and owner
Feral Spirit: 5 ranks, increase mitigation by 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 for both pet and owner
Double attack: would like to see 5 to 10 more ranks of this
Triple attack: would like to see 5 to 10 more ranks of this
Flurry: maybe 3 to 5 ranks
More crit aa's for both spells and melee

Also read on another post about an aa for summoning weapons/armor for pets, would like to see maybe just an aa ability that allows the pets to be fully equipped on cast of the pet.

I like these ideas.  To add on that.  I would like to see either us or our pet be able to tank SoD content better.  I've seen Cleric mercs keep mage pets alive on T5 nameds, but we're hit and miss trying to tank T4 nameds in equal gear.

Not to mention on parses, I've seen a 1000-1500dps difference between a T5 geared mage versus a T5 geared Bst on raid burns.  That is pretty huge if you ask me.

QuoteI like these ideas.  To add on that.  I would like to see either us or our pet be able to tank SoD content better.  I've seen Cleric mercs keep mage pets alive on T5 nameds, but we're hit and miss trying to tank T4 nameds in equal gear.

Not to mention on parses, I've seen a 1000-1500dps difference between a T5 geared mage versus a T5 geared Bst on raid burns.  That is pretty huge if you ask me.

WTB your mages.  

As a constructive idea how about hastened bite of the "whatever" we already got feral swipe down to 21second refresh and lots of classes have similar AAs for their good spells/discs.

Quote from: Sharrien on July 08, 2009, 05:54:10 PM

Quote from: Tadenea on July 08, 2009, 02:51:11 PM
Guess I am not counted as a Good CL :( , I think Nodyin did not pass over the AA Wishlist over to New AA person. I did reposted Beastlord AA Wishlist for Elidroth to view, and left links to this post and wishlist post

We appreciate the work you did to compile the AA wish list Tadenea.  Thanks for following up with it and passing it to the devs.  I'm glad we have one of the CLs actually visit this board since we don't have any that plays a beast as their main.

Ditto on what Sharrien said Tadenea.

I believe most are annoyed that no beastlord is a CL. I am sure you understand it is hard to fight for a class when you don't play one at a high level. Thanks for your efforts though they are appreciated :)

With mages having 2 class representatives that are active in nerfing the beastlord what hope do we have as a class?

I like the idea of hastened nuke recast timers.

Some sort of pet immunity AA for enrage would be nice

Perhaps a flurry disc, or something, if we aren't geting another dps disc :P maybe even some flurry AAs would be nice.

I'd like to see our second spire deleted, and make it a defense sort of spire instead, similar to what monks have. We still got 1st and 3rd spire for dps anyways, and 2nd kinda sucks as it is imo atleast.

Lastly...maybe an AA FD for the pet, but make it a 2min+ refresh or so (necro's have it....monks have FD, so why not give our pet a way, even with a longer reuse time, while being limited (so it won't make us overpowered), it's still useful for something)
Before all the negativity, think about rangers, our fellow hybrid dps class...and their paci arrow...in my guild if we need a hard split in raids, we don't even ask a monk or a bard anymore, when rangers can do it faster, safer and easier.

I like the idea of weapon specialization ... something that instead of upping all types of weapon skill would let you raise just 1 to say +50 over current skill - if it would give a worthwhile return ;)

Endurance regen, they asked :)

Monks get a tome of distraction for pulling  even though they can FD .. some form of paci / distraction split would be neat.

anything that makes pets live longer / able to offtank once again .

Brainstorming here :  perhaps "fercious roar" pet only ability which freezes a mob with fear (mezz effect) any attack would break it,  when this aa is used, it stops the pet from attacking but requires the pets focus for the mez effect .. ie we lose pet dps while its mezzing a mob, but we get the add controlled .. now that would be an aa worth some serious investment!)
Various levels, hugely expensive with each level adding to duration (or max mob level in ranks or something)

Tadenea dont take it personally, I was only saying if wanted to PM someone then Jyve can be trusted too.

Anyway, on the requests, apparently the more detail, the fewest TLA's and parses will help support each case. i.e. dont say BF needs increase of 10% because it sucks. Need to say Bestial Frenzy needs a 10% increase because of X Y Z.   And that way the suggestions more likely to get taken up.

Wu's Pity: Boosts dodge and block skill caps to that of a monks.

In all honesty I wouldn't want a pulling utility, its not in our class lore. Yes we are derived from monks but make that a deagro function, maybe some sort of aura since we have never had one that decreases the agro of the group by "X" amount. Whilst I would love to be able to split mobs again I don't want to take away from monks / bards like rangers did with a bugged AA.

Pet's ability to tank would be great again and not by having an AA to summon gear, that should be an addition for our pets. Although the problem would be that pet dps is pitiful so unless its tanking in a pinch its less effective.

I like a lot of the suggestions in the previous AA thread, debuffs, AA slow, AA group haste. Proc buff spell, twin cast for procs or something........

I don't want to mezz or split, its not our class and shouldn't be.

Thought 2nd spire was decent dps....
Rather see 3rd spire poof since it has so many issues.

Quote from: Karve on July 09, 2009, 12:08:11 PM
I like the idea of weapon specialization ... something that instead of upping all types of weapon skill would let you raise just 1 to say +50 over current skill - if it would give a worthwhile return ;)

Pls no :( That would be voluntarily putting yourself back into situation we had years ago when H2H skill was higher then all else. It will force you to get 2 of the same type of weapons and ignoring other weapons cause they won't outdo an older one cause of the AA, and you know we will be balanced around having that AA if we have 2 of the same weapons or not :P

I like the pet FD idea. 

Kitty play dead!

Put me in the NO category for weapon specialization. It really did suck that the only weapons to have were H2H due to our skill caps.

I like the idea of getting aa slow and debuffs. As a general rule though, I don't like the idea of getting aa's to fix a class issue (ie pet summoned with gear via aa). The issue should be fixed without having to spend aa to do it.

I would like to see another damage ability/aa something like Flurry aa would be nice. I also like the idea of FD on a timer 1 min+.

Quote from: Maylian on July 09, 2009, 12:34:43 PM
In all honesty I wouldn't want a pulling utility, its not in our class lore. Yes we are derived from monks but make that a deagro function, maybe some sort of aura since we have never had one that decreases the agro of the group by "X" amount. Whilst I would love to be able to split mobs again I don't want to take away from monks / bards like rangers did with a bugged AA.

Pet's ability to tank would be great again and not by having an AA to summon gear, that should be an addition for our pets. Although the problem would be that pet dps is pitiful so unless its tanking in a pinch its less effective.

I like a lot of the suggestions in the previous AA thread, debuffs, AA slow, AA group haste. Proc buff spell, twin cast for procs or something........

I don't want to mezz or split, its not our class and shouldn't be.

In all honesty as much as i dislike rangers they were pullers and tanks long before monks were FD was not made to split mobs it was to lower agro as the monk was orginally intended highest melee dps class. rangers were tanks and pullers out doors at least. So why as bst should we not get some pulling tool? i think it would come in handy. The class that has it good and acts like they have it bad with multi roles of a hybrid is the Monk they can tank dps pull even mezz if they watch what there doing in a group

Quote from: thor on July 09, 2009, 02:34:00 PM

Quote from: Maylian on July 09, 2009, 12:34:43 PM
In all honesty I wouldn't want a pulling utility, its not in our class lore. Yes we are derived from monks but make that a deagro function, maybe some sort of aura since we have never had one that decreases the agro of the group by "X" amount. Whilst I would love to be able to split mobs again I don't want to take away from monks / bards like rangers did with a bugged AA.

Pet's ability to tank would be great again and not by having an AA to summon gear, that should be an addition for our pets. Although the problem would be that pet dps is pitiful so unless its tanking in a pinch its less effective.

I like a lot of the suggestions in the previous AA thread, debuffs, AA slow, AA group haste. Proc buff spell, twin cast for procs or something........

I don't want to mezz or split, its not our class and shouldn't be.

In all honesty as much as i dislike rangers they were pullers and tanks long before monks were FD was not made to split mobs it was to lower agro as the monk was orginally intended highest melee dps class. rangers were tanks and pullers out doors at least. So why as bst should we not get some pulling tool? i think it would come in handy. The class that has it good and acts like they have it bad with multi roles of a hybrid is the Monk they can tank dps pull even mezz if they watch what there doing in a group

I have no issues with Rangers and I know about the unintended results of FD. A lot of people get caught up in this "x class gets such and such so I want it". I'm not saying monks have it bad but I don't want classes to become a grey mush of sameness, if you want to reliably pull play a monk or bard. Just because something comes in handy doesn't mean it fits in with a class vision / lore.

Quote from: Mordeb42 on July 08, 2009, 10:31:33 AM
http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=153033&#2233867

I would like to see an upgrade to defensive.  Maybe make it 2x as long or use our pet's hps along with ours?
AA slow
More levels of our aa dot, stun, and attack debuff.
More levels of triple attack.

Passive AA for pets to stop attacking during enrage.

AA to position at max Melee range for pet and pc.

I like these.

Also I'd like to see a couple things:

Something that is like manaflare where we 'draw energy from the animals around us' and use it to focus the damage we do.

A ferocity AA so I can make the eye-candy attack whores happy with out waisting my mana and lowering overall dps. Or a ferocity aura.

more/better deaggro abilities and aa debuffs.

I like most of the high demand items in the other thread.

Some aa to make pets immune to rage would rock, the auto positioning aa for pet is probably hoping for a bit much, and auto-positioning for pc?  Game is easy enough already :(

Wouldn't mind flurry, activated deaggro and resist debuffs.

I would like a long reuse FD (but I agree that's unrealistic), but I can't imagine a use for pet fd unless the pet's aggro didn't pass to owner which doesn't seem likely.

Not thrilled about pet da either, but it seems more useful than pet fd.

If there's a new rank of Pact of the Wurine, would like it to be split in 2 buffs like necro lich (my guild has a lot of beastlords, and being one of 4-5 werewolves running around is getting old).

Would like to see claw attack AA similar to feral swipe added to pet.

Pet proc that cripples and doesnt stack with snare AA.

Would also like to see the Bulwark of Triqaras line continued but thats not an AA.

If there's a new rank of Pact of the Wurine, would like it to be split in 2 buffs like necro lich (my guild has a lot of beastlords, and being one of 4-5 werewolves running around is getting old).

good idea kharth

QuoteIf there's a new rank of Pact of the Wurine, would like it to be split in 2 buffs like necro lich (my guild has a lot of beastlords, and being one of 4-5 werewolves running around is getting old).

Best idea yet.

Quote from: wildwaters on July 10, 2009, 02:10:33 PM

If there's a new rank of Pact of the Wurine, would like it to be split in 2 buffs like necro lich (my guild has a lot of beastlords, and being one of 4-5 werewolves running around is getting old).

You can click an illusion over pact

I would rather just block it.  If I illusion over pact, I have to drop that illusion before I hit Bestial Alignment.  It's also another clicky/potion to carry/cast.  It's also non-trivial to get an ogre illusion.  I made an ogre, I just wanna keep bein' one.

I do illusion over it sometimes, and I'm an iksar so I can use FoS mask, but when I'm raiding I don't want to mess around with having to click off stuff so I can hit BA, like Khauruk noted.  It's not my main concern with our class or anything, just something that (one would think) could be changed quickly and easily.

I think BA is what should be split in two tbh  :-)
I think it should be made just like GBA, with 2 separate buffs.

more new AA ideas. /rerail on

AAs to shorten the cast time on yowl at the moon line.

So here are our ideas all in one spot:

1. AA slow
2. More levels of our aa dot, stun, and attack debuff.
3. More levels of triple attack.
4. I would like to see weapon specialization aas.  Like H2H, 1hb, 2hb, p etc that would increase damage or accuracy.
5. Passive AA for pets to stop attacking during enrage.
6. Passive AA to reduce Merc cost?
7. Passive AA to reduce power source drain.
8. AA to summon a power source. 
9. Would love a weak version of panther either as AA or spell. 
10. AA to position at max Melee range for pet and pc.
11. AA attack/disease/poison debuff - seperated or together or partial.
12. Maybe continue our incapcitate line through AA's, hasn't been increased since like level 56.
13. AA to make taste of blood passive? so it's not useless.
14. some sort of pulling/pacify aa (one of our parent classes is a monk right) make it long duration like 10min so not overpowering
15. Endurance regen
16. perhaps "fercious roar" pet only ability which freezes a mob with fear (mezz effect) any attack would break it
17. I like the idea of hastened nuke recast timers.
18. Some sort of pet immunity AA for enrage would be nice
19. Perhaps a flurry disc, or something, if we aren't geting another dps disc  maybe even some flurry AAs would be nice.
20. pet FD
21. Feral Senses: 5 ranks, increase avoidance by 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 for both pet and owner
22. Feral Spirit: 5 ranks, increase mitigation by 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 for both pet and owner
23. Double attack: would like to see 5 to 10 more ranks of this
24. Triple attack: would like to see 5 to 10 more ranks of this
25. Flurry: maybe 3 to 5 ranks
26. More crit aa's for both spells and melee
27. Also read on another post about an aa for summoning weapons/armor for pets, would like to see maybe just an aa ability that allows the pets to be fully equipped on cast of the pet.
28. AAs to shorten the cast time on yowl at the moon line.
29. Wu's Pity: Boosts dodge and block skill caps to that of a monks.

I have to question if it is wise to ask about higher triple attack skill without raising our double attack first. Triple only fires off the main hand while double fires off both hands, besides triple checks double first and needs that to fire before it can fire.

i would love a pet defence aa something that shares the pets and its owners health and maybe let it last for 18 sec
like most other discs. our defence disc is way way overdue to be upgraded.
on another note what about an aa to make our defence disc last a little longer 10 sec is not much time to do anything never mind gain agro

Quote from: medoc on July 13, 2009, 09:09:47 AM
i would love a pet defence aa something that shares the pets and its owners health and maybe let it last for 18 sec
like most other discs. our defence disc is way way overdue to be upgraded.
on another note what about an aa to make our defence disc last a little longer 10 sec is not much time to do anything never mind gain agro

The point as I see it of the defense disc is when we have agro to allow us to survive long enough to get a heal and drop it again, it is not meant as a tanking function.

Quote from: Maylian on July 13, 2009, 09:50:15 AM

Quote from: medoc on July 13, 2009, 09:09:47 AM
i would love a pet defence aa something that shares the pets and its owners health and maybe let it last for 18 sec
like most other discs. our defence disc is way way overdue to be upgraded.
on another note what about an aa to make our defence disc last a little longer 10 sec is not much time to do anything never mind gain agro

The point as I see it of the defense disc is when we have agro to allow us to survive long enough to get a heal and drop it again, it is not meant as a tanking function.

That's cause we aren't tanks 8D

Quote from: wildwaters on July 13, 2009, 12:35:26 PM

Quote from: Maylian on July 13, 2009, 09:50:15 AM

Quote from: medoc on July 13, 2009, 09:09:47 AM
i would love a pet defence aa something that shares the pets and its owners health and maybe let it last for 18 sec
like most other discs. our defence disc is way way overdue to be upgraded.
on another note what about an aa to make our defence disc last a little longer 10 sec is not much time to do anything never mind gain agro

The point as I see it of the defense disc is when we have agro to allow us to survive long enough to get a heal and drop it again, it is not meant as a tanking function.

That's cause we aren't tanks 8D

Decent bsts can tank anything for 12 seconds.  After that, we're necro bait.  I love it when I'm on the 11th second and then a tank taunts it off =)

For mitigation purposes, I'm pretty certain that we have the best mitigation % disc in the game.  The duration stinks relative to other discs, but as WW pointed out, we ain't tanks.  It's an OS tool, not a tool to be used constantly.

Add to that it has the best reuse timer it is a fantastic disc and I love it, I'm sure most others do.

guys the beta is coming fast and as far as i see it if ya don't ask ya wont get plain and simple. we are level 85 and to tell the truth most classes have a few defence aa that includes casters we have 1.
a pet defence aa would not be over powering besides the pet and the owner would take damage and it could have a 30 min timer so it would not be overpowering .

Quote from: medoc on July 13, 2009, 05:42:44 PM
guys the beta is coming fast and as far as i see it if ya don't ask ya wont get plain and simple. we are level 85 and to tell the truth most classes have a few defence aa that includes casters we have 1.
a pet defence aa would not be over powering besides the pet and the owner would take damage and it could have a 30 min timer so it would not be overpowering .

I think most of us agree that a pet sharing defensive aa would be cool.

I think you miss the point that your proposed boosts to defensive disc are showing that you miss the point of the disc. It isn't designed as a tanking function. Like Kanan said its designed to keep you up until you can drop aggro. I also used it when my SK was still forming up and dropped on nameds, it allowed me to tank the last few hp's on the named so we didnt wipe.

However, I would be in favor of an increase to the mitigation% of our defensive disc if mob attack is so high and group gear ac is so lacking in the new expansion that we need a few more hp's worth of mitigation to live through accidental aggro.

i understand that its designed to keep us up till we drop agro but when the main tank drops 12 seconds is not much time to do anything . don't get me wrong i like our disc but i think we still need another even if it is on a long reuse timer or make our existing disc last longer if only a few seconds

Quote from: Selronis on July 13, 2009, 05:13:20 AM
So here are our ideas all in one spot:

1. AA slow
2. More levels of our aa dot, stun, and attack debuff.
3. More levels of triple attack.
4. I would like to see weapon specialization aas.  Like H2H, 1hb, 2hb, p etc that would increase damage or accuracy.
5. Passive AA for pets to stop attacking during enrage.
6. Passive AA to reduce Merc cost?
7. Passive AA to reduce power source drain.
8. AA to summon a power source.  
9. Would love a weak version of panther either as AA or spell.  
10. AA to position at max Melee range for pet and pc.
11. AA attack/disease/poison debuff - seperated or together or partial.
12. Maybe continue our incapcitate line through AA's, hasn't been increased since like level 56.
13. AA to make taste of blood passive? so it's not useless.
14. some sort of pulling/pacify aa (one of our parent classes is a monk right) make it long duration like 10min so not overpowering
15. Endurance regen
16. perhaps "fercious roar" pet only ability which freezes a mob with fear (mezz effect) any attack would break it
17. I like the idea of hastened nuke recast timers.
18. Some sort of pet immunity AA for enrage would be nice
19. Perhaps a flurry disc, or something, if we aren't geting another dps disc  maybe even some flurry AAs would be nice.
20. pet FD
21. Feral Senses: 5 ranks, increase avoidance by 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 for both pet and owner
22. Feral Spirit: 5 ranks, increase mitigation by 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 for both pet and owner
23. Double attack: would like to see 5 to 10 more ranks of this
24. Triple attack: would like to see 5 to 10 more ranks of this
25. Flurry: maybe 3 to 5 ranks
26. More crit aa's for both spells and melee
27. Also read on another post about an aa for summoning weapons/armor for pets, would like to see maybe just an aa ability that allows the pets to be fully equipped on cast of the pet.
28. AAs to shorten the cast time on yowl at the moon line.
29. Wu's Pity: Boosts dodge and block skill caps to that of a monks.

I'd say add

30) Pet health sharing disc
31) (my own idea >.<) a focus aa like manaflare

Pet health Sharing disc WOULD BE AMAZING! whoever is compiling the list PLEASE add that and maybe put high priority... it shouldbnt be too hard or unrealistic... pets already do the /shield command randomly dont they at times? So why cant the master of the pet be able to make the warder do the /shield when they want it to?

Fero aura  :-D

pet healt sharring would be very nice

new def disk

Well, don't mages already have "shared health" AA, activated AA that allows their pet to take half the damage from the pet owner a certain time...not sure how long, but according to lucy the top rank is for 60 seconds, and it's on a 15min reuse timer.
This could be copy-pasted to us pretty easily, huh  :-)
I think this could be useful...maybe slap the HoT spell on the warder, and take half the damage for a minute....should be more than enough as survivability for those times you really need it?

Fero aura 

Quote from: Selronis on July 13, 2009, 05:13:20 AM
So here are our ideas all in one spot:

1. AA slow
(yes please)
2. More levels of our aa dot, stun, and attack debuff.
(ok)
3. More levels of triple attack.
(deffinitly)
4. I would like to see weapon specialization aas.  Like H2H, 1hb, 2hb, p etc that would increase damage or accuracy.
(maybe not general weapon specialization aa but something that would make 2hb worth using)
5. Passive AA for pets to stop attacking during enrage.
(why? I nearly always have my pet behind a mob and if it gets hairy I click off her attack)
6. Passive AA to reduce Merc cost?
(good idea but I doubt that will come to pass)
7. Passive AA to reduce power source drain.
(same as merc)
8. AA to summon a power source. 
(again same as merc)
9. Would love a weak version of panther either as AA or spell. 
(aa would be better if this is what I think it is)(shaman proc buff?)
10. AA to position at max Melee range for pet and pc.
(doesn't our pets already attack at near max range anyway?)
11. AA attack/disease/poison debuff - seperated or together or partial.
(good idea)
12. Maybe continue our incapcitate line through AA's, hasn't been increased since like level 56.
(is that suggested above?)
13. AA to make taste of blood passive? so it's not useless.
(another good idea but minimum requirements at least 2 in the rank or something)
14. some sort of pulling/pacify aa (one of our parent classes is a monk right) make it long duration like 10min so not overpowering
(nice thought but I disagree with it)(as stated in a previous or subsequent post it's not in our class deffinition)
15. Endurance regen
(we used to have it until soe broke it across the board)
16. perhaps "fercious roar" pet only ability which freezes a mob with fear (mezz effect) any attack would break it
<listens to chanter/bards crying>(though a 12-18 second effect might not be too bad)
17. I like the idea of hastened nuke recast timers.
(good dps increasing idea but I see us running out of mana faster)
18. Some sort of pet immunity AA for enrage would be nice
(same as auto attack off for pet aa above)
19. Perhaps a flurry disc, or something, if we aren't geting another dps disc  maybe even some flurry AAs would be nice.
(agree with this one a lot. we are a ~feral~ class)
20. pet FD
(doesn't fit with our class deffinition)
21. Feral Senses: 5 ranks, increase avoidance by 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 for both pet and owner
(good idea)
22. Feral Spirit: 5 ranks, increase mitigation by 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 for both pet and owner
(another good idea)
23. Double attack: would like to see 5 to 10 more ranks of this
(yes please)
24. Triple attack: would like to see 5 to 10 more ranks of this
(yes please)
25. Flurry: maybe 3 to 5 ranks
(wasn't this asked for above?)
26. More crit aa's for both spells and melee
(yes please)
27. Also read on another post about an aa for summoning weapons/armor for pets, would like to see maybe just an aa ability that allows the pets to be fully equipped on cast of the pet.
(it's a stretch but not a bad idea as we are a feral class and rely on the wilds to provide for us)
28. AAs to shorten the cast time on yowl at the moon line.
(good idea. I hate the casting time on this but the long casting timer allows the tanks to gain more agro over us)
29. Wu's Pity: Boosts dodge and block skill caps to that of a monks.
(good idea bad reasoning)

Fero aa or aura would also be nice.

I think it would be a good idea for us as a community to sit down together (figuratively speaking) and figure out what we are as a class. Personally I see us as a dps/utility class.

i would say more of a utility then dps tho

I am not attacking anyone's idea about wanting Fero upgrade/aura but I know I have read a ton of posts on how this spell is basically useless, or return on dps is really insignificant.

Do we really want this in our list in it's current form?  I myself would want it too if it was useful.

As an AA aura with a new AA dev on the scene he may make it worthwhile, any further upgrades to the spell itself, despite this being an AA thread should be shot down at the first possible opportunity unless dev's do some significant work on its effects. As an aura with no need to be constantly casting it, it would be useful in as much as it would be a free attk boost we could forget about.

If you're going to suggest an increase to Taste of Blood or make it passive then make sure that they remove the stacking issues that it has / had with discs first, again boost its duration and maybe make it a recourse to us as well...

it has been shown that fero gives very poor return over the cap if any at all ,as for a power source aa why not just do a katta mission and buy a few. plz ask for stuff that will be of use for the love of god please i could go on at the list but i am just ranting . oh btw i see no pet defence disc on the wish list

Quote from: Codak on July 14, 2009, 11:52:25 PM
i would say more of a utility then dps tho

I view us as sustained dps as opposed to burst dps.

I agree, I think we're pretty solid sustained dps.  This is also where I would like us to stay.  I'm personally opposed to getting much more utility, unless it is something like the self only cure on Kumbaja (which I'm all for).  If it was targettable raids would just turn us into curebots so as to not sacrifice the healers.  Similar issue I see with trying to get endurance regen on paragon lines, I don't want to run around being an endurance pumping whore all night, that doesn't seem like a fun time to me.

Other ideas

Mend or Union of Spirits type AA - Really fast or instant cast heal (self only probably) fairly large heal component for those oh crap moments.  Both parent classes have something like this so adding a long recast time would make it not a gamebreaker, even if targettable.


This is more of a spell idea I wish I had thought of, but maybe someone could turn it into an AA.   I personally love the pet proc slow line, aside from two issues with it being #proc dependant and no notification of when the slow wears off.  Make the buff on the pet a defined time length, 10minutes say, and add a small mana drain to ourselves.   Mobs would be continually slowed thanks to the awesome resist check, we don't deal with slow agro so we can start dpsing hard right off the bat.

I really like the idea of a self heal AA like Hzath suggested.

Powersource/merc crap should be specified as General AA's if asked for at all.

Wouldn't mind more dot crits with the rest of crit stuff, unless it means losing something else.

Have there been any more recent parses of fero than Wycca's a few years(or whatever) ago?  I wouldn't mind an aura since I tend to keep a few people fero'd in most raids anyway, but would be neat to get something else added it it.

Quote from: Hzath on July 15, 2009, 03:33:35 PM
I agree, I think we're pretty solid sustained dps.  This is also where I would like us to stay.  I'm personally opposed to getting much more utility, unless it is something like the self only cure on Kumbaja (which I'm all for).

Mend or Union of Spirits type AA - Really fast or instant cast heal (self only probably) fairly large heal component for those oh crap moments.  Both parent classes have something like this so adding a long recast time would make it not a gamebreaker, even if targettable.


This is more of a spell idea I wish I had thought of, but maybe someone could turn it into an AA.   I personally love the pet proc slow line, aside from two issues with it being #proc dependant and no notification of when the slow wears off.  Make the buff on the pet a defined time length, 10minutes say, and add a small mana drain to ourselves.   Mobs would be continually slowed thanks to the awesome resist check, we don't deal with slow agro so we can start dpsing hard right off the bat.

These are good ideas. In fact I like the slow idea alot.

I too am against us gaining a bunch of utility for much of the same reason.

Quote from: kharthai on July 15, 2009, 04:07:41 PM
I really like the idea of a self heal AA like Hzath suggested.

Powersource/merc crap should be specified as General AA's if asked for at all.

Wouldn't mind more dot crits with the rest of crit stuff, unless it means losing something else.

I don't see us getting much in the way DoT crit stuff unless other classes do.

The way we are now is that we get alot of damage aa's across a lot of different aspects (dot, nuke, melee, pet). We aren't meant to be great at any of them but the result is that we have very solid cumulative dps. That is one of the things I like about our class actually.
Either way, we still should be several ranks behind on those aa's imo. The exception being perhaps certain melee abilities and pet lines.

Btw, I'm totally for a fero aura. That would be a geat boost to group dps even if fero wasn't modified much.  Even if each melee gains 10 dps over a sustained period for no mana that's a good boost for the group.

We are several ranks behind.  Necros and Shaman get 6 ranks of Blood tithe, i don't know about druids.  I don't know if they're getting additional ranks with Underfoot, but I would think so.  As far as being a few ranks behind, our spells are generally a lot weaker anyway.  In any case I'm just hoping for a truckload of new AA (like I said I wouldn't want it coming at the expense of something else) so thought I'd toss it in the pile.

Can we take out the stuff about power source/merc and any other of the generally not needed stuff?  Id rather see a condsensed list of the real hard hittings tuff we want then the devs have a chance to screw us cause we tossed in a bunch of stuff we dont really need or want... with powersources being player made now, and katta missions being so eays tehres no need for us to be able to summon them with an AA anways.

here are the aa i see useful
1. pet defence aa pet takes 50% of your damage.
2.Passive AA for pets to stop attacking during enrage
3.More levels of our aa dot, stun, and attack debuff.
4.more double tripple attack though double is more important i think.
5.Would love a weak version of panther either as AA or spell.
6.AAs to shorten the cast time on yowl at the moon line.
7.Perhaps a flurry disc, or something, if we aren't geting another dps disc  maybe even some flurry AAs would be nice.
8.More crit aa's for both spells and melee i am sure we will get a few levels of these though

Quote from: medoc on July 15, 2009, 07:17:50 PM
here are the aa i see useful
1. pet defence aa pet takes 50% of your damage.
2.Passive AA for pets to stop attacking during enrage
3.More levels of our aa dot, stun, and attack debuff.
4.more double tripple attack though double is more important i think.
5.Would love a weak version of panther either as AA or spell.
6.AAs to shorten the cast time on yowl at the moon line.
7.Perhaps a flurry disc, or something, if we aren't geting another dps disc  maybe even some flurry AAs would be nice.
8.More crit aa's for both spells and melee i am sure we will get a few levels of these though

I'd like to keep the Focus of Animus debuff thing and self cure, but that's a good list.

Quote from: wildwaters on July 15, 2009, 02:39:59 PM

Quote from: Codak on July 14, 2009, 11:52:25 PM
i would say more of a utility then dps tho

I view us as sustained dps as opposed to burst dps.

That sounds like a correct statement, i love my dps but i also love that i can save people with my crappy heals too

Quote from: medoc on July 15, 2009, 07:17:50 PM
here are the aa i see useful
1. pet defence aa pet takes 50% of your damage.
2.Passive AA for pets to stop attacking during enrage
3.More levels of our aa dot, stun, and attack debuff.
4.more double tripple attack though double is more important i think.
5.Would love a weak version of panther either as AA or spell.
6.AAs to shorten the cast time on yowl at the moon line.
7.Perhaps a flurry disc, or something, if we aren't geting another dps disc  maybe even some flurry AAs would be nice.
8.More crit aa's for both spells and melee i am sure we will get a few levels of these though

1. Hopefully they could make this the mitigated damage, could whack a pet DA on and this would be excellent. Wouldn't want it on the same timer as our current disc though.
2. Doesn't really bother me, haven't lost a pet to enrage for years.
3. Sounds good.
4. More double attack yes, triple if possible.
5. Definitely, this would be my number 1 want. Would love it to be group buff but at least self and pet. Maybe just turn growl into a proc buff as well if not wanting to develop it as an AA line, since the buff itself is almost redundant other than on the longest of fights.
5. Saying it again just for emphasis.
6. See 5. Don't care about the cast time for Howl, the way I see it is that it reduces agro generation quite a bit. If they are to reduce the cast time just make a new version of the spell with lower cast time.
7. Sounds nice, would certainly help towards our sustained dps. Unless it was better than our empathic it wouldn't be good for burns since mobs don't last long enough.
8. Again I expect these would be the typical cut and paste increase.

9. I would like an AA debuff.
10. I would like an AA slow.
11. Wurine to be split into a buff and an illusion.
12. Spell casting subtlety to be toggable on/off

Quote from: Maylian on July 16, 2009, 09:06:00 AM
12. Spell casting subtlety to be toggable on/off

This would be a huge thing for them to do, I'm sure.  But PUUHHLLEEEASE! this would be awesome!

It would solve any fence sitting issues for me, right then and there.  Turn off to be able to tank (some groups, it's running a fine line).  Turn on for raids (be so nice to not be next target when the tank dies or if he's died and been battle-rezzed and therefore has little endurance for hate generation)

Quote from: medoc on July 15, 2009, 07:17:50 PM
here are the aa i see useful
7.Perhaps a flurry disc, or something, if we aren't geting another dps disc  maybe even some flurry AAs would be nice.

Double or Triple before flurry, getting flurry with ~70% DA rate and low Triple rate means flurry will do very low amount of DPS. Increase DA, then work on getting triple and flurry up.

Quote from: Maylian on July 16, 2009, 09:06:00 AM
12. Spell casting subtlety to be toggable on/off

Or maybe silent casting type ability, which would last couple of minutes and reuse maybe 15 min.

-Raz

in favour of a huge number of new dps aa:)

give us more burn dps or overal higher dps aa and abilitys.
more double attack, new dps aa etc
higher pet dps, like 90 procent of mage pet dps.
or new pet aa that summons extra dps pet every 5min.
a shortened timer on our main dps disc
instant yowl of the moon cast etc

anything what makes us parse higher then we do atm when giving all the best we can.

seems we turn more into a dps class then a utility class anyway
with our crappy heal and other stuff.

on raids we seem to be dps class with a slow now and then and maybe now and then a heal
but not often.

so increased dps aa is what i ask

Quote from: rhaug on July 17, 2009, 09:57:18 AM
in favour of a huge number of new dps aa:)

give us more burn dps or overal higher dps aa and abilitys.
more double attack, new dps aa etc
higher pet dps, like 90 procent of mage pet dps.
or new pet aa that summons extra dps pet every 5min.
a shortened timer on our main dps disc
instant yowl of the moon cast etc

anything what makes us parse higher then we do atm when giving all the best we can.

seems we turn more into a dps class then a utility class anyway
with our crappy heal and other stuff.

on raids we seem to be dps class with a slow now and then and maybe now and then a heal
but not often.

so increased dps aa is what i ask

With a side order of the moon and some reality....unless you're asking for everything in the hope that they just give us something.

Quote from: Maylian on July 17, 2009, 10:01:02 AM

Quote from: rhaug on July 17, 2009, 09:57:18 AM
in favour of a huge number of new dps aa:)

give us more burn dps or overal higher dps aa and abilitys.
more double attack, new dps aa etc
higher pet dps, like 90 procent of mage pet dps.
or new pet aa that summons extra dps pet every 5min.
a shortened timer on our main dps disc
instant yowl of the moon cast etc

anything what makes us parse higher then we do atm when giving all the best we can.

seems we turn more into a dps class then a utility class anyway
with our crappy heal and other stuff.

on raids we seem to be dps class with a slow now and then and maybe now and then a heal
but not often.

so increased dps aa is what i ask

With a side order of the moon and some reality....unless you're asking for everything in the hope that they just give us something.

That's not always a bad idea :) send in things they will never go for so other things seem alot more reasonable :)

Quote from: Camikazi on July 17, 2009, 01:37:33 PM

Quote from: Maylian on July 17, 2009, 10:01:02 AM

Quote from: rhaug on July 17, 2009, 09:57:18 AM
in favour of a huge number of new dps aa:)

give us more burn dps or overal higher dps aa and abilitys.
more double attack, new dps aa etc
higher pet dps, like 90 procent of mage pet dps.
or new pet aa that summons extra dps pet every 5min.
a shortened timer on our main dps disc
instant yowl of the moon cast etc

anything what makes us parse higher then we do atm when giving all the best we can.

seems we turn more into a dps class then a utility class anyway
with our crappy heal and other stuff.

on raids we seem to be dps class with a slow now and then and maybe now and then a heal
but not often.

so increased dps aa is what i ask

With a side order of the moon and some reality....unless you're asking for everything in the hope that they just give us something.

That's not always a bad idea :) send in things they will never go for so other things seem alot more reasonable :)

Like OMG don't let them on to our secret methods cam!!!

I think a good utility AA would be single cast shrink and grow.  I usually get one or two complaints about being a victim of group shrink, and they don't want to block group shrink since they need it for raids.

Can we add Hastened Roar of Thunder AA's to the list?  I dont care about extending RoT further, its useful the way it is..  But if they can hasten it enough there is no need for me to buy Spell Casting Subelty.

ah its like making a deal
the seller starts a bid higher so he can go down and still get a good deal
and the buyer starts a bit lower and can go up a bit.

dont ask for small things to be upgraded when you really want big things to be added to the beastlord class.

anyway i got the feeling as a beastlord that we got to work very hard to get a high parse.

would not mind some passive dps added(a really increased double attack rate ) or new dps aa that brings us a bit closer to the top. in the form of a heavy dps pet  aa which can be up together with yowl but has a bigger refresh timer, the new pet hits around 750 to 1k for 10 seconds, and can crit and is instant cast
or a new beastlord animal strike that hits 5k or so and can crit. with 1 min refresh.

more dps in anyforn is welcome as aa or improvement.

dps is what i want most, since utilities are maybe nice for grouping but in raids they seem to be not needed if they are not really usefull.

most stuff is handy as utility but if we get it rather then dps aa i will pass for sure

and of course a fix of the thirdspire, turn that into a real dps spire and not something to laugh about.
first spire can have also a increase to the damage each hit, since we dont have all double attacks, so we do less hits which gives us less added damage in total.

passive dps added

full double attack rating or a highly increased double attack rate.
more tripe atack added
increased passive pet dps(our pet is a joke in dps terms)

new aa abilities

vengeance of the warder

a new dps pet that is on a 5 min timer and deals out devastating damage for about 15 to 20 seconds seconds stack with howl

claw of the beast a deatly strike on the weak spot of the target that does 5 a 6k damage and ability to crit

beastial weaponmaster
weapon proc aa
that gives us a beastial proc that procs 1500 ro 2k damage  on a weapon with chance to crit with right aa
we learned in the jungle how to make a weapon extra deathly so it procs beastly:)
like a 30 min timer on the spell as a buffslot.

a aa line that allows us to ignore nuke refreshers for a limited time.
so the poison and 2 cold nukes can be shooted double  (burst dps increased)
or shortens the refresh time for a good amount of duration
so we can quikly bomb the mob.

as utility a aa that equips our pets with a good armour set haste mask and weapons
(tired of asking mages)

Quote from: rhaug on July 17, 2009, 04:31:27 PM
and of course a fix of the thirdspire, turn that into a real dps spire and not something to laugh about.

I never laugh at third spire... I just never speak of it, for it makes me sad.

Quote from: Camikazi on July 17, 2009, 05:36:40 PM

Quote from: rhaug on July 17, 2009, 04:31:27 PM
and of course a fix of the thirdspire, turn that into a real dps spire and not something to laugh about.

I never laugh at third spire... I just never speak of it, for it makes me sad.

/nod.. i had such high hopes for it.. but they were dashed upon the stones of the parses.. don't stack with shm 3rd spire either, meanwhile burning the timer too ;p

Quoteah its like making a deal
the seller starts a bid higher so he can go down and still get a good deal
and the buyer starts a bit lower and can go up a bit.

Bad analogy, since there's no actual negotiation. The reality is that you send your ideas down a black hole and find out in November (or via beta-leaks) what you got.

If we want to burn harder we need to try and get things that stack with what we have.  An activated AA that also comes with a heavy endurance cost.  There are a few options that would stack with emp fury - increased crit strength (like savage spirit), hundred hands effect ( I think rogue's fury has this?), increased crit rate, I could be missing others but those are the big ones in my mind.

Another option for the activated AA type discipline, frenzied feral attacks, like rogue's frenzied stabbing but for our feral swipe.  Stack it with Emp fury for lots of those big strikes for 30 seconds or whatever.

On the spell damage side of things something like frenzied devastation/prolonged destruction - Increased mana cost for nukes in exchange for increased crit chance.

A new idea the AA puts a "buff" on you that would make the yowl line always give us the 4 proc, the "buff" would also have something like a 500/tick mana drain and 500/tick health drain.  Make it last a minute and give us the option of clicking it off if we want to stop the burn.  Make the health/mana drains on the SE buff slots so there aren't other conflicts, another detrimental side effect would obviously be kicking off SE.


Also, since we're not in agreement about the Spell Casting Subtlety idea, why don't we just shoot for silent casting.  I understand it isn't an instacast 5k hate reducer with 12second refresh you all think we deserve, but it's something already in game that wouldn't suck and would at least be somewhat useful.

Hmm, how about an activated 20% agro reducing AURA that makes melee and spells around it get reduced agro?
This would be a nice utility for us, cuz we'd earn a spot in the melee dps group, and we could choose to not use it too when we don't want to.

Its very easy to burn harder.

New AA to unlink the limitations by spell type nerf that was reversed for some classes. Reduce reuse time on ice and poison nukes from 30 to 20 to 10 to zero.

Results is we get more ranged dps on some mobs, can mana dump on some mobs, can increase dps on trash clearing, actually post better parses on short fights, like most are.
Just like before the spell link nerf.

HOwever the argument hasnt been about more dps, its the case our utility is getting worse and for years no one at SOE will address it, so DPS is all thats left and doable for them it seems.

Prime example Fero.

Improving ranks of empathic fury to be on par of usefulness of frenzied burnout could be an option.  Growl line is weak and not realy used for dps, more like ghetto heal over time abvility :(

I really like several of the ideas Hzath presented.  Silent casting would be the simplest thing to add that would aid in agro reduction for the "scrum" fights.

I also really like Zunar's aura idea.  Again, fairly simple to implement, and it's essentially toggle-able.

Quote from: Hzath on July 30, 2009, 12:07:26 PM
Also, since we're not in agreement about the Spell Casting Subtlety idea, why don't we just shoot for silent casting.  I understand it isn't an instacast 5k hate reducer with 12second refresh you all

As I suggested few pages ago. How ever it should be modified one which affects on melee skills aswell.

-Raz

full double attack rating and strong triple attack for personal passive dps
we want to be back in the dps top.

new yowl pet on different timer like RS from mages. yowl can do much more damage then it does at the moment RS seems a good alternative in the form of a new wild animal that does devastating damage
and stacks with yowl, also make yowl and rs instant cast
2 pets will help in dps

a extra poison nuke that stacks with our other 3 nukes. and upper the damage on existent cold and poison nukes
burst dps:)

new dps pet aa, and a fix of our pet make it comparable to mages air pet, as dps and tankability.

a deathly weapon proc beastial proc 3k with chance to crit we are in tune with out weapons so it becomes deathly over 5 minutes, high procchances
a extra way of showing we are a deathly beastlord and master of the hth

new way of dropping aggro each 20 seconds, a real boost.

a new dps groupdisc with 100 procent damage increase for whole group
people need to want us in there group again since we bring something special!

how you think we come back in the dps top?
what aa you want?

Quote from: rhaug on August 01, 2009, 09:18:45 PM
full double attack rating and strong triple attack for personal passive dps
we want to be back in the dps top.

new yowl pet on different timer like RS from mages. yowl can do much more damage then it does at the moment RS seems a good alternative in the form of a new wild animal that does devastating damage
and stacks with yowl, also make yowl and rs instant cast
2 pets will help in dps

a extra poison nuke that stacks with our other 3 nukes. and upper the damage on existent cold and poison nukes
burst dps:)

new dps pet aa, and a fix of our pet make it comparable to mages air pet, as dps and tankability.

a deathly weapon proc beastial proc 3k with chance to crit we are in tune with out weapons so it becomes deathly over 5 minutes, high procchances
a extra way of showing we are a deathly beastlord and master of the hth

new way of dropping aggro each 20 seconds, a real boost.

a new dps groupdisc with 100 procent damage increase for whole group
people need to want us in there group again since we bring something special!

how you think we come back in the dps top?
what aa you want?

Quite possibly the most uneducated and poorly thought out post I've ever read.

Quote from: Inphared on August 01, 2009, 10:24:07 PM

Quote from: rhaug on August 01, 2009, 09:18:45 PM
full double attack rating and strong triple attack for personal passive dps
we want to be back in the dps top.

new yowl pet on different timer like RS from mages. yowl can do much more damage then it does at the moment RS seems a good alternative in the form of a new wild animal that does devastating damage
and stacks with yowl, also make yowl and rs instant cast
2 pets will help in dps

a extra poison nuke that stacks with our other 3 nukes. and upper the damage on existent cold and poison nukes
burst dps:)

new dps pet aa, and a fix of our pet make it comparable to mages air pet, as dps and tankability.

a deathly weapon proc beastial proc 3k with chance to crit we are in tune with out weapons so it becomes deathly over 5 minutes, high procchances
a extra way of showing we are a deathly beastlord and master of the hth

new way of dropping aggro each 20 seconds, a real boost.

a new dps groupdisc with 100 procent damage increase for whole group
people need to want us in there group again since we bring something special!

how you think we come back in the dps top?
what aa you want?

Quite possibly the most uneducated and poorly thought out post I've ever read.

They are his ideas, and check out the ranger version of this thread, everything from Impenetrable disc, multiple defensives, huge amount of way over the top DPS AAs, even asking for a disc like our protective spirit, even saw them wanting a spell that does dmg and returns the dmg as a heal to them (SK lifetap). This thread is nothing compared to other classes ones, here there are people who try to stay within what the class is, other ones don't care and ask for everything they can and get supported on most all of it.

I have a feeling that the asking of everything and hoping what you get is good is what let other classes give devs idea for things they get, and maybe shooting down the things some don't consider Beastly might be why we lack in some places now. An idea might not be great but it can give a jump off point for anyone and can turn into something good for our class,  and attacking ideas (bad or not) could just stop someone from posting for fear of the same thing.

it seems we arent a support group, thanks inphared its easy to critisize.
what ideas you have for increased dps?

i ask for real dps aa, its not that they will give all these new aa to us.
anyway i ask for things i like to get.


not for something small that i dont want to have.

we asked for small things over the years and dropped down on the dps table and groupability.
where other classes got cool new aa and dps abilities, we slacked a bit with new stuff.

We really don't slack badly in DPS though, where does that idea come from ? I'm not the most leet Bst on the server but I can certainly maintain a good level of DPS, upping it slightly would be "nice" but not essential.

Places we do slack are in defensives against SoD mobs, both us and the pet.
Gone are the days of standing back and playing pet-cleric, and that was part of the original "vision".
We lack in utility where we're being left far behind, spells stagnating because of no updates, mobs increasing in power where we don't increase in power proportionately (unless our balancing is done on maximum gear available rather than average.

The pet should be able to stand and take a beating, it doesn't have to hammer through mobs like an air pet as long as it can stand there and park a mob with the odd heal thrown in.

After that, *anything* is fair game to ask for for AA's, every other class asks for the moon on a stick, why don't we? Maybe we are too sensible, and what little we ask for isn't given as we just don't ask for enough to have the ridiculous stuff thrown out.

perhaps it is time we demanded FD just to ensure we get endurance regen and fero auras added ?

Time to slam my head in a fire door again.

sign me up for "moon on a stick" whats it do?

I also want "nuke from orbit" A single use large damage AE spell that kills the bst and inflicts a whole load of hurt.

Rumour has it there is going to be like 4 spells per class, and some AA. A lot of power comes with levels, and some dps comes with skill cap increase.

So 4 spells, we could be looking at 2 x DPS spells, e.g. nukes, swarms, temporary dps multiplier, and 2 utility, cures, heals, buffs.

Would like to see another warder that can tank well, some decent group dps multiplier, big boost in healing, and a second lesser line of poison nukes.

I don't think we are slacking in dps either.  Sure we could always use a boost here or there, but it is not a fundamental weakness of our class.  Last week I broke 5k dps on the Mining Behemoth during a backflagging run and I don't even have any crystallos or SoD weapon yet.  I did not use 7th vet on that run.

The areas that in my opinion could use a boost:

- warder off-tanking survivability
- healing/curing
- paragon falling too far behind mana/hp pools
- warder dps
- group buffs
- an aura (fero aura would be the bomb)

Quote from: Sharrien on August 03, 2009, 02:03:02 PM
- an aura (fero aura would be the bomb)

where the aura is more than just stupid attack/resist buff.  I like idea in other thread about it being a special attack mod (kick, frenzy, etc).  I think mebbe a +backstab modifier before their other modifiers may be a bit much, but /shrug.. dunno how that much effect any +BS does for their dps.

They could code it like first spire, where it adds a set amount of damage to teh backstab.

I agree that our personal dps is ok for now.  But our other half, the dreaded pet, is slacking baadly. As are our buffs/utility, asuming we are to be in that line as god knows what the idea of bsts are suposed to be these days.

We have slid down the scale as beast lords badly in beastlordly retards, with our pet the biggest, most obvious, hurt.

Quote from: Khauruk on August 03, 2009, 03:35:12 PM
They could code it like first spire, where it adds a set amount of damage to teh backstab.

/chuckle.. git outa my head doommit! ;p  Actually had that thought, but took it out of post as I was typing.  Suppose it wouldn't be that bad to have it be +frenzy/bs/kick, etc in that same vein.  And, best of all, it would be upgradable, since it's a flat amount, rather than a %, like the poor healing adept line.

Exactly, and it matches what the developers like nowadays, which is flat dps increases vs. multiplicative stuff.  Tunability is there between rk 1, 2, 3.  Rk1 needs to be non-faction locked, since our most important spells are all faction locked now.  Rk. 2 dropped preferably, or faction locked if it's a big upgrade.  rk3 needs to be seriously tuned to be worthwhile for raiders.  Duration should be increased as well.

I like the flat amount of damage added per swing like all the spires, it's not a % upgrade so they could balance it well.  A +damage amount to the special attacks as well would be a nice bonus.  I wanna echo that Rk. III would need to be a serious upgrade to the others to be worthwhile for getting raiders in DPS groups, a flat dps increase scales like crap from the raiding to the grouping game.

It's more of a spell or an aura idea, but I think we should really fight for something like this.

I have to say an aura would be the way to go, currently we're aura-less and this would be the dog's danglies.

I'd be very keen to see the pet get *alot* more defensives .. still. but thats not aa's (although it may be possible) but fixing the broken part since the last expansion and then working on it would be better.

Quote from: Karve on August 04, 2009, 01:14:44 PM
be the dog's danglies.

/offtopic

I've never heard that expression before.  It's really hard not to bust out laughing loud here at work right now ;p

Quote from: rhaug on August 02, 2009, 09:18:19 AM
it seems we arent a support group, thanks inphared its easy to critisize.
what ideas you have for increased dps?

i ask for real dps aa, its not that they will give all these new aa to us.
anyway i ask for things i like to get.


not for something small that i dont want to have.

we asked for small things over the years and dropped down on the dps table and groupability.
where other classes got cool new aa and dps abilities, we slacked a bit with new stuff.

There's a huge problem with asking for DPS upgrades, our dps is pretty decent as is and that's all the devs see in these threads. The last several years they have boosted our dps over and over while letting the pet and our utility side wither away. I personally would like to see those two aspects boosted while letting our dps stagnate a bit.

The class was never designed to be a dps class yet that's where we are heading. For those of you who want DPS so to be useful on raids, guess what? They'll never boost us up to pure dps class levels due to "balance" and those classes howling for our heads. That means we'll be a second tier dps class with little utility. AKA bench filler only to be called in when the real classes don't show up (hard mode raids). It would be better to push for utility upgrades in hope that will at least make bst somewhat desirable on raids beyong the token 1 representative.

I posted this on the other thread lol but it kinda relates pretty well here so here it is

Fero becomes an Aura with a dmg mod increaes and overcap added for resists...  This alone would bring back a large part of our Utility on raids... we would be a staple in the dps groups and the resists would not likely make a huge difference as everyone now adays has 700 resists or so but it all helps right?

Pet dps SUCKS everyone knows this, but whats the harm in at least making our pets surviablity on par with mages?  Its not like im ever going to tank stuff with my pet unless i want to take a nap and come back to find mob dead... Not having to worry so much about pets health or if hes taking hits would be great and cant really hurt game balance that bad really...

Leave our dps alone if u will, but bring back some more Utility!

Oh and /bump the idea for shared health disc for pet and owner.

Our pets are not meant to beable to tank like mages. Think about this.

Mage kills by nuking (noway they could tank wear silk) they need a pet that can take more of a beating.

Nerco pet weaker then ours. nerco pets are rouge for a reason to backstab as they kite.

SK pet sucks but just adds a tad bit of dps while they tank( can't even take a hit or you healing it)

Now our pet Beast were made to tank with pet fighting along side. Why we are able to tank some. Pet was made to beable to hold agro as you back out when you get low on health and heal up while pet takes a few hits, then you go back in and fight more. Have a promise renewal makes that even easier do to being able to pull out heal yourself pop a PR on pet go back in by the time you need to pull out again PR went off on pet Full health on him. Think of how a beast was made. EQ has always had these classes this way and I do not think we need to up them anymore.

Our class is great and if your guild sit you as being a beastlord on the raid for a class that counts then you need to play harder. Our beast never sit... we are too much of a tool for are raids. But what does Crimson Tempest know about raiding.

But as in AA's we need or would like to see this beta.

A fast cast heal if its going to be as low as it is. I did like how they were looking at .5 sec heal with 2 the base but too long of a recast timer. I could see a 4 sec or maybe a 5 sec recast but not 8.5

We need to get rid of Fero or make it have an aura or group effect

Last and this is a dream but add end to para line. both para and FP. Reason being. think about if we use para now why do we use it. Someone died or at the end of a fight. Where is end at those times??? Pretty low. Only reason I think we need it.

I would like to see a cripple aa also or a slow aa instead of the spell same cast same power just an aa chance (like levi and invis).

Would like to see us being able to use 2 poison nukes (like we can use 2 ice ones) make us spend aa's to unlock that.

Would like to see a combo cure one that cures pet then fires back on me or even group but that would be overpwred.

newer DPS disc that does not ping off pet.

Other then that I know they will just cut and paste all the normal aa's thats fine but have some new things. SOD sucked as an expan but alot of the aa's owned. I hope they keep looking it to that.

I never get sat for raids and i didnt really mean make pets take hits as well as mages but id like to se the gap closed.  Our Raid utility could certainly use a boost, FP is great and hell ive even used the pet slow line to slow multiple mobs when our shammies get busy... We just dont have the same impact that we used to imo.. and i miss that!

Sorry but where does it say my pet isnt meant to tank? and HELLO we are wearing LEATHER ffs. Not like we have plate ac or migitation.

In the beginning our pets were MEANT to tank, why else would we have the best.. well, had the best, healing abilities on our warders?

If mages are going to get our promised line, i'll be dammed if we don't get their pet strengths with that. Why should we lose our pet healing ability and get a weakarsed warder in return, while mages have strong pets AND our heal (which was nerfed for us soon as THEY got it as well WTF??)

Everything that made us as pet tenders pointed to pet tanking or offtanking. Now that ability is useless. Our pet heals are ineficient, our warder is awful in every regard, and we have gotten worse and worse with no one paying attention to our pet plight for almost an entire expansion, which is sad.

Quote from: Panthur on August 04, 2009, 11:35:57 PM
Sorry but where does it say my pet isnt meant to tank? and HELLO we are wearing LEATHER ffs. Not like we have plate ac or migitation.

Good point lol!

Mage version of pet tanking and/or pet dying: Pet dies, or is about to die, mage judges situation and either has time to whip out suspended backup pet or gate.

1) Mage decides too risky and gates to run back for another attempt.
2) Mage sees a chance, throws out a rumbling servant to keep mob busy whilst unsuspending a backup pet. mage resumes killage of said mob.


Bst version of pet tanking and/or pet dying: Pet dies, or is about to die, bst judges situation and either has time to whip out suspended backup pet or run.

1) Bst decides too risky and tries to run for the zone line for another attempt. Bst mashes pet hold so mob is pissed at pet not bst while runing away.

2) Bst sees a chance, throws out a werewolf pet to keep mob busy whilst unsuspending a backup pet. Warder insta croaks. bst runs away, mob chain summons bst to death.

(Some humor at least heh)

Combine Hobble and Fellgrip into one combined AA with a reasonable duration and obviously no charges. Fellgrip as a spell is fairly redundant and make it easy for us to determine when the spell has landed.

The fact that we have to recast the slow proc every time it lands make it useless.

after all on raids you have shammy and chanters and bst all casting slow I rather control when slow is cast rather then leaving it up to a proc that I have to recast anyways. maybe some insight as to what the intent on it was might change my mind.

with all the classes that can cast slow I can agree that removing the having to recast it part of the spell would be an improvement that way we could slow one target while our pet slows another making it worth casting.

I believe the idea behind fellgrip was to try and help us lower our agro. Pet gets slow agro rather then the bst, good intention bad implementation.

It was actually a frantic last minute spell design when the requested and for most of the beta tested pet proc malosi type thing turned out to be caught in severe stacking problems with shamans and mages. We were asking back then for a resist debuff proc to help us land slow because multiple slow cast tries increase aggro too much, they just gave pets a better slow with a higher neg resist check than we get to achieve the same goal, however with a bugged proc mechanic from day one. Most in beta back then were apalled and lobbied against that spell, however we still receive upgrades to it.

I can understand why at the time no one liked it since you could not tell when it landed and when it wore off, but now things are different.  We can see a target's buffs, so there is no uncertainty if a mob is slowed.  I use felgrip all the time, it reliably slows and dots the target every time.  I like it also because you cast it before a fight starts, so don't lose dps casting and recasting Sha's while the mob is in camp.

I agree it could be improved by removing the stacking issues with our snare proc and removing or increasing the proc limit so that a single cast could be used for more than one fight.

I hope this spell continues to be upgraded when we see our next level increase.

Sharrien, yes with inspect buff LAA it is easier to tell if fellgrip landed but not everyone has that LAA. Matter of fact I know lots of people who have no LAA because they want 100% of their xp to go for leveling or AA. Most people I know who have maxed LAA are clerics and boxers.

/chuckle.. or those who maxed them out YEARS ago ;p

True, some have chosen not to spend any xp in LAA or have recently powerleved up and skipped it altogether.  However, I can't remember the last time I was in a group where no one had decent LAA.  It's been around so long there are tons of people who have it maxxed already.  I even have most of the good raid LAA maxxed and I haven't lead a raid for like 3 years.

Using felgrip isn't the right choice for everyone and plenty prefer not to use it for their own reasons, but I want to make sure that someone is heard who DOES use it all the time so that it does not get dropped from future upgrades.

I like fellgrip myself. Since I box the beast I don't use it as much now but it's great for highly resistant mobs.

And it's just my opinion Grbage but if someone doesn't have leader aa that doesn't in anyway downgrade its usefulness. All that does is say that the individual isn't maximizing their assets. You can easily knock out the 2 ranks of inspect buffs and get HoTT in no time and those are the important ones. If someone chooses not to round thier character out that is their choice and they will suffer for it in some situations.

I hope they make it an aa >.<

Sadly on my server I run into a lot of players with few to no laa. I ask for leadership in most cases and offer a mentor in exchange so that I can provide what I feel are very nice if not vital laa. It really helps to see when one of my spells sticks on a mob and also to know if something I am trying to cast is being blocked by shaman/chanter slow or other spells.
Back on topic though, I feel we should have rounding out increases to take away some of the rougher edges we have like pet survivability and pet dps. I don't lknow how many remember when pets we're an ability summoned warder and the pet was ~buffed~ with the spirit of xxx spell and the proc spell also. It was done away with at PoP I think. I would like to see a spell or aa that works along the same line (unless I'm missing it).

I was hinking how about a new SM aa where a SM pet would live past death. that way you could gear up buff up a pet and pocket it then after a Death you could have your pet gtg when resed

Having to have LAA just to use your own AA optimally is absolutley ridiculous, lets tell shaman they can only use one of their slows while in groups. Oh wait what if i solo, I have zero LAA active then.

Its a Marmite AA, the majority dont use it, a few do. The occasionals is once to twice every 6 months.

Im firmly in the hate it, pointless, superceded by latest content camp.

1) Either get rid of taste of blood aa or rework it so its not as useless. It blocks alot of our other usefull pet procs. It doesn't proc or produce enough dps for it to be useful as a trade off.
2) Give us a new slow wether an aa or spell it doesn't matter.
3) Give us a way to cure ourselves and/or warder
4) Give us an aa where if we have to tank in situations we can grab agro wether by us or our warders.
5) Quit merging our new haste with our pet haste. Just give us a new group haste that last about 30 mins and quit being lazy about it.
6) Our third spire needs a better dps mod as it stands our second spire is alot more better (in my opinion/parses)
7) Merge our spell and melee pet rune line together its a pain in the ass to try switching between them for different raid encounters
8) Give us a new defensiive and offensive disc for us, our warders, or both its long over due
9) Work on upgrading our pets for tanking and dps not just burst/situational aa and spells to patch the problem
10) Give trolls their crocodile pets back. As with the SoD pet summoning aa their pathing and subsequent getting stuck,falling through the world, etc should no longer be an issue.

i dont mind attack of the warders to do some serious damage
its quite low damage for such a aa

Quote from: Biostar on August 07, 2009, 06:29:03 PM
10) Give trolls their crocodile pets back. As with the SoD pet summoning aa their pathing and subsequent getting stuck,falling through the world, etc should no longer be an issue.

Screw trolls, fix Iksar pets for once.....if they're going to focus time on fixing it then a fault this old should get time as well :)

An AA to allow Leadership AA's to work when solo.

Quote from: Nusa on August 07, 2009, 08:22:55 PM
An AA to allow Leadership AA's to work when solo.

Kinda seems to go against the grain of the idea of the leader aa's but I like it! i would love that sort of aa for soloing.

Not sure if someone mentioned it in the previous pages. I would like to get:

Radiant Cure.

Paladins got it due to their cleric roots I guess so not why us too, due to your shaman roots?

Because paladins have a strong 2ndary healer role, whereas we do not.

Quote from: Maylian on August 07, 2009, 08:02:20 PM

Quote from: Biostar on August 07, 2009, 06:29:03 PM
10) Give trolls their crocodile pets back. As with the SoD pet summoning aa their pathing and subsequent getting stuck,falling through the world, etc should no longer be an issue.

Screw trolls, fix Iksar pets for once.....if they're going to focus time on fixing it then a fault this old should get time as well :)

How about this?  Give our basilisk to iskars, and give us our croc back.  Everyone wins :D

I second that one. I am very bummed I lost my croc. Its the reason I picked a troll in the first place.

Quote from: Panthur on August 04, 2009, 11:35:57 PM
Sorry but where does it say my pet isnt meant to tank? and HELLO we are wearing LEATHER ffs. Not like we have plate ac or migitation.

In the beginning our pets were MEANT to tank, why else would we have the best.. well, had the best, healing abilities on our warders?

If mages are going to get our promised line, i'll be dammed if we don't get their pet strengths with that. Why should we lose our pet healing ability and get a weakarsed warder in return, while mages have strong pets AND our heal (which was nerfed for us soon as THEY got it as well WTF??)

Everything that made us as pet tenders pointed to pet tanking or offtanking. Now that ability is useless. Our pet heals are ineficient, our warder is awful in every regard, and we have gotten worse and worse with no one paying attention to our pet plight for almost an entire expansion, which is sad.

Amen!

If we are going to keep our original class creation "purpose" (aka luclin! Loved that expansion, hated VT :P ) we could think tank some ideas revolving around that. But DAM does the warder need to be looked at first. Poor thing has fallen so far behind us it's a sad panda.

Give me some abilities that scream out the bond between me and my warder. Give the warder a REAL and USEful purpose. Empathic fury creation is a good example. I would love to see an ability or aa that boosts this, whether it be in damage mod or duration.

Another ability could be something like frenzied burnout, but working like empathic fury sorta. Maybe give higher ranks a delicious proc or something that we can proc on our groups. Maybe a heal or a dd, who knows. Just an idea.

An ability to scout with our warders. Like eye of zomm kinda. Or at least a mirrored image of our warders as i woudnt know how to impliment it.

Track. I am a beast lord. I should know the ins and outs of every beast in my realm, yet i cant recognisze their scents norè the imprints they leave on the ground or environment. What the heck kinda beastlord am i then! Non animals, meh, i dont care if i can track those.

well i said this long ago and people really never got it we are beastlords but we bond with one animal each and raise and tame it as our ally, we are not like tarzan or dar the beastmaster or we were not at inception who knows what devs see us as now. If i recall correct we didn't even start out amiable to animals like rangers and druids always were that was added later. I am not saying we shouldn't be and should not have power over other animals but thats not what the class was at the creation of it.

It's nice to come up with ideas and all, but really, track for animals?  What, can't find boars in tosk?  Sure, flavour is good, but they have half a dev team and more workload than they can handle it seems, do we really need to hit them with crap like this?

As far as any pet/owner disc type deals, I would love for them not to autotarget pet.  Probably a code thiing, but AA's at least seem to be able to do this without the target switch.

I'd also rather they not add a bunch more procs, since multiple procs seem to not work that great together.

A frenzied burnout type deal (Ferocious Rapidity?!?!) could be neat, especially if we got some aa's to extend the duration and all that.  Could be issues with stacking with our main disc though, if it had a damage mod as the mage one does.

I was like to know what Role the Devs see us in.  I be happy if the defined our role and made it know what they intend.  I  dislike how each year our role changes it would be nice to settle on a role and know once and for all what it is.

if we are suport then let our spells and AA reflect it.
If we are DPS then bring us up to par

is our pet just another spell or is our pet ment to be more if so show it to us.

That's been something we've been trying to get from them for years.. and failing.  I'd hope that this year may be different.  We'll see.

Devs do not clearly define a class role, except in cases where it is obvious like warriors or clerics. They do have some clearer definition they use themselves, but simply do not share them with the players for some good reasons as those definitions do change over time.

Pondering if the idea of our Growl line being a group buff, via aa or whatever. Would be intersting over long fights and give at least some extra raid desirablity not to mention a use for gom aa line as i imagine the mana cost to keep it up would be outstandlingly expensive.  :-D

I think that has been suggested before, but the answer is that it collides with Shammys Champ and would render them crippled.

Quote from: Denti on August 13, 2009, 10:38:47 AM
Devs do not clearly define a class role, except in cases where it is obvious like warriors or clerics. They do have some clearer definition they use themselves, but simply do not share them with the players for some good reasons as those definitions do change over time.

The problem with not knowing (or having) a somewhat clearly defined role is when you ask for feedback from those players for their new AAs.  Do we want to focus on DPS, revive our long lost utility abilities, put our pets in a competitive state?  We can suggest all the DPS AAs we want if devs like the place we sit in damage dealing wise, and consider us a utility class.

Back when bsts came out, i had two favorite classes. Mage and bst. Mage vs bst identities were defined. I enjoyed pet tanking and blowing stuff up with nukes on mage. Just as much as i loved pet clericing, and pounding on mobs with my companion.

Where is that thrill now? Mages appear to have a good class definition but when they made bsts, its like the had an idea then that was lost within the last few expansions, like they didn't know WHAT a bst was anymore.

This lack of identity is making my bst class realy hard to both play and enjoy.

How can devs propose new AA for us when they have no clue what our class identity is from which to guide them?

Stop with the mages crap. We AREN'T mages. I dont care whos pet is stronger. A mage has WAY better utility FOR their pets (aka ds, toys, armor, focus jewlery), and a bst had...pet heals. Both pets could tank and defend us. What used to set us apart was how we each attended our pets. Pet and owner are two seperate identities that make up the whole package.

Not sure if this is a new AA idea, but more of an alteration... but please add the ability to block the Wurine werewolf illusion while still using the AA... the grey werewolf is REALLY old

Quote from: Durew on August 30, 2009, 07:59:01 PM
Not sure if this is a new AA idea, but more of an alteration... but please add the ability to block the Wurine werewolf illusion while still using the AA... the grey werewolf is REALLY old

There's already a thread on this under the AA Discussion section. Go vote (if it's still open to voting?) and toss your feedback there.

Quote from: Inphared on September 03, 2009, 10:54:54 PM
Go vote (if it's still open to voting?) and toss your feedback there.

I left it open for voting, not personally going to go any farther with it though, as far as hasslin' devs and such.

I know I am new. But why dont we have punishing blade? Like every melee class hybrid gets this but us. 

Quote from: Kraeel on September 15, 2009, 06:32:33 PM
I know I am new. But why dont we have punishing blade? Like every melee class hybrid gets this but us. 

We were the 1st to have a push. our pets push  you put the swarm / wolf / pet  all on one side of the mob and watch it move. we didn't get it cause we don't need more push

Quote from: Mazame on September 16, 2009, 10:30:29 PM
We were the 1st to have a push. our pets push  you put the swarm / wolf / pet  all on one side of the mob and watch it move. we didn't get it cause we don't need more push

I'm not sure I see the connection between push, and our non-receipt of Punishing Blade.

Punishing blade gives a chance to add an extra attack a round iirc, not sure where push is an issue either.

Umm, yeah. DW produces a lot more push then any 2 hander.