Athlon 64 3700 (2.2ghz) and 7600GT are getting a little slow on EQ in raids/overpopulated zones these days. 17-28dps in SoD kurn's tower with 5 people in zone, 8-11fps in guild lobby, 12-18fps in most raids. The issue seems to be mostly luclin models or models in general, but possibly also new zone textures.
I get 65fps + in guild hall, less if there are more people in it. I get 100+fps in the great divide when its empty.
I've been reading reviews on E5200 and it seems like it should be fine and I won't need to up it to a E8400 for EQ, but EQ seems to defy normal logic for computers these days.
Basically wondering if I can skimp on the Proc or Graphics for EQ, or I need both a E8400 and a 9600GT to run EQ well for a few more years and not get less than 30fps except in lobby. The E5200 is much much cheaper than the E8400 while a 8600GT or 9500GT isn't a lot cheaper than a 9600GT.
Anyone have any of these processors/cards that could comment on how well they handle eq?
Does EQ really stress the processor so that even a 8600GT or 9500GT video card will be fine as long as the CPU is strong, video don't matter?
I'm just looking to get 30+ fps in all situations(raiding/new zones) except guild lobby for a few years.
I'm not up on the power vs numbering on video cards lately, other than noting years ago that higher numbered model numbers are not necessarily more powerful cards...that's marketing people trying to fool you half the time.
To answer the question one way: EQ is not a processor heavy game, by modern standards. The amount of system memory and the quality of the graphics card have a much bigger impact than the CPU power itself. Your Athlon should be fine for EQ.
To answer the question another way: EQ isn't a twitch game, updates from the network come at a fairly slow rate...FPS, once past an acceptable number, is epeen-waggling rather than a useful metric. What you're noticing is the CHANGE in FPS based on what's rendered. Go into options->Display->Advanced and set the MAX FPS slider to a reasonable number like 20 and see how you like it. Past that, your performance is going to be based on how many bells and whistles you insist on having turned on (things like shadows are really big offenders). If you gotta have every whistlle, then buy a high-end graphics card. If you're willing to turn off a lot and reduce your clip plane, you could still run EQ on a 10-year old graphics card.
Everything is set to low or off, except for having luclin models loaded.
All spell/env/player particles are off
Advanced Lighting is off
Floral is off
Shadows are off
Guild lobby FPS =20 with no luclin models and all settings off/low, 50% clip pane
Guild lobby FPS = 10 with luclin models on, and all settings off/low, 50% clip pane.
All I'm trying to do is run EQ with luclin models on, and maintain 26-30 fps in all situations except GLobby.
7600GT is the medium range card, just before you get to the "hardcore gaming cards". Nvidia's numbering mechanic goes something like this:
First number in the card = generation of card
Second number in the card = Type of card(lower = business/weak/small/quiet, higher = gamer/strong/large/loud
So seeing as I can't lower my settings anymore, this is just not working :)
All the slider does is cap the FPS so it can't go past a certain point, this helps in zones that I don't lag in by keeping the GPU cooler I guess.
With everything turned off(except for shaders and H/W vertex, and luclin models), I"m getting these numbers. So just the rendering of the zones and other places and npcs is too much for this computer.
I know any computer I buy will beat this one, I just want to spend money where it matters most. If the 7600GT isn't the one being the problem, and its the 2gb DDR PC3200 ram or the Athlon 3700 2.2ghz, I want to spend more money on the processor there instead of buying say... a 9800GT or GTX260 to play EQ.
I'd start looking at what other processes are running, and other memory offenders - that system should be doing alright w/ EQ...at least with one instance. Multi-boxing would be hard though.
Something's eating up your processor cycles.
You only have 2 gigs of ram?
Are you on a 32-bit Operating System? If you're on a 64-bit OS, upgrade to at least four gigabytes.
Windows XP 32bit
Athlon 64 3700+ 2.2ghz
Gigabyte K8NSC-939
2gb Kingston 3-3-3 CAS, 1024mb PC3200 400mhz
AGP 7600GT 256mb
WD 7200rpm SATA1.5 16mb cache 250gb
integrated NIC
Sound Blaster Audigy(7yr old)
430W Antec TruepowerII
MemTest = 2 passes, 0 errors
Task manager:
Eqgame.exe using 750mb - 900mb of memory and Virtual memory
Firefox.exe uses 50mb-130mb of memory and virtual memory
svchost.exe and explorer.exe use 15-30mb of memory/virtual memory
ashserv.exe uses 5mb of memory, 28mb of Virtual memory
Everything else is below 10mb both
Nothing uses the CPU that I can see on task manager except EQ
C:\WINDOWS\System32\smss.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\winlogon.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\services.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\lsass.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\aswUpdSv.exe
C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\ashServ.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spoolsv.exe
C:\Program Files\Java\jre6\bin\jqs.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\nvsvc32.exe
C:\Program Files\Tiny Personal Firewall\persfw.exe
C:\WINDOWS\Explorer.EXE
C:\PROGRA~1\ALWILS~1\Avast4\ashDisp.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\CTHELPER.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\system32\taskmgr.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\wuauclt.exe
I will also run speedfan and Fraps during EQ.
That's current processes atm, Avast is disabled from active scanning.
Basically...
Can this run EQ with luclin models on, and achieve 30fps except in globby, with no shadows, no particles, no bells and whistles besides models:
Intel Pentium Dual Core Wolfdale 45nm E5200 2.5ghz 2mb L2 cache, SSE4 disabled, no virtualization
4gb gskill or kingston DDR2 800mhz
WD or Seagate 320gb - 640gb 7200rpm 16 or 32mb cache
nvidia 9500GT or nvidia 8600GT
Integrated sound/NIC
500W or 600W power
or will I need something like this:
Intel Core 2 Duo Wolfdale 45nm E8400 3.0ghz 6mb L2 cache, SSE4, virtualization(not that I think either of those matters for EQ)
4gb gskill or kingston DDR2 probably 1066mhz
WD or Seagate 320-640gb
Nvidia 9600GT
Integrated sound/NIC
600W power
Current system will eventually go because:
It's starting to show signs of slowness outside EQ
I want multiple cores for multitasking
It has a load of old standards/interfaces that are obsolete rendering it not upgradeable
The case doesn't shield noise well and its as loud as a server
Temps are 45-47C Idle, 53C load on the 7600GT
38-42C idle and 51-55C load on the CPU
47C idle and 57C load on the northbridge
Yes I've cleaned out the case of dust bunnies, once/month.
Yes, AMD cool n quiet is disabled, just in case you asked :)
Quote from: Vidyne on May 09, 2009, 01:45:02 PM
I will also run speedfan and Fraps during EQ.
That's your biggest culprit. If you're actually filming whilst playing EQ, your FPS is going to get raped.
If you just want an FPS counter, download WinEQ 2.
not filming to my knowledge, just using it for FPS readout.
The second system with the higher L2 cache etc will provide a longer use-cycle and overall better processor performance by far, but either should be able to do what you're looking for easily. I would however look at motherboards that can support 64bit operating systems and higher amounts of memory (as a forward-looking thing).
How much RAM is in your current computer? In my experience, RAM has been a bottleneck for EQ.
For comparison, I run the same CPU but OC'd to 2.5Ghz, 2gb ram, and a 512mb 8800GT. I don't have SoD so I can't say what my FPS is there, but I rarely lag anywhere, even when 2 boxing.
There is one program I HIGHLY recommend that makes EQ play much nicer (as the name suggests).
Go to http://www.lavishsoft.com and download WinEQ2. It lets you alt tab and do other things while EQ is running. It works MUCH better than the Alt+Enter feature EQ has.
2gb, same as you, except you likely have PCI-E and possibly DDR2 memory.
Basically don't know if its the DDR 400mhz, 2.2ghz Athlon 3700, or 7600GT agp 256mb that's holding it back.
If you could get a E5200 2.5ghz and 9600GT or E8400 with a 9500GT, which would you get? ie... is it more important to spend money on the vid card or the processor? I'm pretty sure the answer is the processor, but given the above user claims with a processor similar to mine, just slightly overclocked.... i'm wondering.
Fraps isn't the culprit, same stuttering/fps lag with it or without it.
Any upgrade will play "better" than my current system, because it will upgrade ram, gpu, and cpu. I just want to know what eq presses on the most. Whether its worth dumping money to move from a E5200(value/mid cpu) to a E8400/E8500(one of the stronger dual cores) or a quad core(lower clock and eq don't fully utilize multiple cores, so 99% sure dual > quad). Or to dump money in a powerful vid card over a mid vid card.. 9500GT(light gamer), 9600GT(medium gamer), 9800GTX(heavy gamer), for that generation.
--Your RAM is low, need to goto 3 Gig's for the newer zones. EQ isn't RAM friedly. Luclin Graphics eats 512 by itself leaving you with 1.5 RAM. I remember EQ eating another 256 just playing EQ (on my old system) so thats not leaving you alot just for EQ in the newer zones.
--Would turn everything off in the backgroup (FRAPS and stuff) and turn them back on individually. Something is eating your memory (besides EQ).
--Other than RAM, your system spec's on EQ are great.
P.S. EQ patches may have screwed up my first statement. With all the patching they did awhile ago with graphic cards, not really sure how munch RAM EQ eats anymore. I know they have made improvements so it could all be false now.
Quote from: AbyssalMage on May 11, 2009, 10:32:46 AM
--Your RAM is low, need to goto 3 Gig's for the newer zones.
Before you take this token of advice, be advised that 32-bit Operating Systems (usually) cannot make use of anything more than two gigabytes of RAM. You will need a 64-bit OS to make anything above 2 worth anything.
Quote from: Vidyne on May 08, 2009, 11:47:29 PM
Everything is set to low or off, except for having luclin models loaded.
All spell/env/player particles are off
Advanced Lighting is off
Floral is off
Shadows are off
Guild lobby FPS =20 with no luclin models and all settings off/low, 50% clip pane
Guild lobby FPS = 10 with luclin models on, and all settings off/low, 50% clip pane.
All I'm trying to do is run EQ with luclin models on, and maintain 26-30 fps in all situations except GLobby.
7600GT is the medium range card, just before you get to the "hardcore gaming cards". Nvidia's numbering mechanic goes something like this:
First number in the card = generation of card
Second number in the card = Type of card(lower = business/weak/small/quiet, higher = gamer/strong/large/loud
So seeing as I can't lower my settings anymore, this is just not working :)
All the slider does is cap the FPS so it can't go past a certain point, this helps in zones that I don't lag in by keeping the GPU cooler I guess.
With everything turned off(except for shaders and H/W vertex, and luclin models), I"m getting these numbers. So just the rendering of the zones and other places and npcs is too much for this computer.
I know any computer I buy will beat this one, I just want to spend money where it matters most. If the 7600GT isn't the one being the problem, and its the 2gb DDR PC3200 ram or the Athlon 3700 2.2ghz, I want to spend more money on the processor there instead of buying say... a 9800GT or GTX260 to play EQ.
Try turning off the H/W vertex and shaders. My old computer ran better with them off for no apparent reason.
32bit apps are limited to asking for 2gb memory by a 32bit os. While he is right that it might bump eq's memory from say 1.75 available to eq, to 2.00 available to eq, I don't see that as a huge jump. Right now eq is asking for 2gb, and probably getting 1.75ish because the system is using 200 or so I'd guess. Bumping it to 3gb would let eq ask for a full 2gb I'd assume.
C:\WINDOWS\System32\smss.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\winlogon.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\services.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\lsass.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spoolsv.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\nvsvc32.exe
C:\WINDOWS\Explorer.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\system32\taskmgr.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\wuauclt.exe
D:\Program Files\Sony\Everquest\eqgame.exe
So, which out of those else can I stop?
Nothing is eating my memory or CPU, I've looked. This system is just weak at the core, or something is underperforming. Tried without/with vertex shaders, no difference.
Run EQ at 640x480, same fps as it has at 1024x768, or 1280x960
Developed a theory for this, but not sure if it would be accurate.
3dmark is a benchmarking application for gamers to use on their systems. I'm not as interested in the benchmark though as that it should... in theory since it has a cpu test and a graphics test, put a heavy load on the system. Heavy work load translates to heat.
Idle:
CPU = 37c
7600GT = 46c
Chipset = 47c
3dMark
CPU = 53-54c
7600GT = 56-58c
Chipset = 53c
Everquest (I went to the globby, and some of the laggiest places for me(Kurn's tower, Field of Scale, though I haven't tested a raid yet)
CPU = 52 - 53c
7600GT = 48-49c
Chipset = 50-51c
Just looking at the numbers, it would appear to me... that the video card during EQ, isn't doing alot. That it really isn't "stressing" itself.
It would appear on the other hand that the CPU is. Therefore at the moment, I've decided the CPU is the weakest link.
Interesting. Wouldn't of thought that the CPU would be over worked and overheating.
I like your test. EQ definitely appears to be maxing out your cpu.
I still say your CPU should be plenty for the non-graphics portion of EQ...up until last year I was running EQ on an Athlon 64 3000 with a 6600.
I don't suppose you've done something silly like limiting or turning off hardware acceleration on your graphics card and forgotten to undo it?
You could look in your <eq directory>/logs/eq.dbg file to get a clue whether your dispay card is getting errors starting up in EQ, or reverting to software rendering for some reason.
You have to take into account one thing. EQ IS playable on this system, and it still performs well in 90% of situations/zones.
Only Field of Scale, Kurn's Tower, Guild lobby, and any raid of 40+ give it problems. I'm probably ok using it for another year if I had to, but being it will be turning 4 yr old next year, and that it sounds like a server in a server room..... I wanted to get a new computer anyway and a new case. The computer is full of old standards... AGP, SATA 1.5, Socket 939, 20pin power, DDR400. It can grow no more :)
But seeing that the video isn't used alot in EQ, I "may" save 40$ and go for a 9500gt(DDR2, 128bit bus, weaker core) instead of a 9600GT(GDDR3, 256bit bus, strong core). However I think i'll spend 100$ extra to get the more powerful E8400 processor.
If I avoid 3 zones, and raiding... this system still plays EQ fine and has no shortfalls. It's just annoying to have choppy/studdering in those zones.
I'm merely wanting to remedy those 3 zones and raiding, and secure a computer for another 3-4 years of EQ.
I'm going to wait another year to upgrade...Windows7 being live, USB3.0, and cheaper Nehalem processors (and whatever vid card) will look tempting then w/ 8gb of ram.
Ok, I went and played around in Field of Scale while watching both CPU loading and graphics loading (I run dual monitors on separate graphics cards, so that's easy for me to do). I do notice the CPU load changing significantly based on the number of NPC's on the screen. It's not the zone itself...face an area with only a few NPC's in it and it's pretty normal. But look at the armies and you notice it. In the worst views, I estimate I had over 150 raptors, skeletons, humanoids, drakes, and dragons visible on the screen. So yes, there's a real CPU component to all those movable bodies, be it collision detection or rendering. I sit corrected.
I found over the years that drive access is an issue as well. I run my EQ from a separate physical hardrvie than my OS is installed on. That in itself helped tremendously from having everything on one drive. RAM also, like others have said makes a huge difference. Even if you stick to a 32bit OS, having 4 GB of RAM is NOT going to hurt yah. You might only see or address 3.2 GB but it's better than 2.
Video cards to play a part up to a point. I was playing on a computer that had a built in card and it was aweful. Upgraded to an ATI x1900 xt and it was total bliss. Then after a few years I upgraded to a GTX 8800 and never really noticed much of an improvement even though the 8800 GTX runs rings around the x1900 in other games or benchmarks.