high end bst / vs paladin why play a bstlord?

[daarksoul]

hi im not trying to bash paladins or get them nerfed.

I have a bstlord lvl 70 with 12,500hp max buffed my weapons suck with that said.. I can not out solo a 70paladin PERIOD...

example i watched a 70paladin go into torden,the bastion of thunder and SOLO gaukr PLUS his 2 guards. NONE of the mobs were slowed... he soloed all 3mobs and had 40percent of his mana when done.
he had ALL 3 mobs hitting on him at the same time

a paladin has 1 second heals can buy a 43dmg 30dly weapon for 1k pp and then have a weapon better than our 2.0 epic... why would u play a bstlord ? the paladin can OUTSOLO a bstlord period.

If you think im wrong.. then i throw out this challenge i want any bstlord to go solo gaukr and his 2 guards... self buffed only... just like the 70paladin did.. OR heck with it go get raid buffed and try...fyi for any who may not know gaukr procs a 1400DD and unslowed can proc 3 times in 30seconds no problem..


i was messing around in old seblis... typical i got 3 mobs, they were juggs,  on me i had pet up and was buffed to 12khp , i accept its cause my weapons suck that it takes me a while to kill the mobs.. however once all 3mobs started pounding on me i went down fast... so tried new tactic had my pet tank one and me tank 2... same problem once i started healing pet and me... still lost, now someone is gonna get lippy and say i shoulda won easy with 12k hp... thats my point i have hundreds of aa's and all my defensive aa's. those mobs in old seblis should not have been able to lay the smack down on me. yet they did... Im no newb that doesnt know how to play my class but my heal only does so much...nukes 30second refresh... /shrug


the problem is our pets suck period. they have such low hp that they die too easy and if you stop to heal them you wind up just standing there chain healing them JUST to keep them alive. our heals for self are no better sure I can heal myself up to full hp useing half my mana literally *i have 7kmana pool* then dps a few seconds and start healing again...





I can and do solo some high lvl mobs but ONLY if i can get one mob and not several. bsts have no way of solo pulling.

to fix bstlord class is not so hard as im reading on this board.. IM in anguish and can offer some very very easy suggestions that would help out the bstlord for soloing  which as a pet class we are supposed to be able to do..

double bstlord pets HP...what i really need for soloing is a pet that can LIVE while i tank /kill one mob and pet holds one mob off me. right now the pet cant tank his way out of a wet paper bag.

increase bstlords dps i realize there is a programming scale that sets wizzys / necros for example on a very low dps even with say a 20dmg weapon they hit very weak... the problem for bstlord is while on a raid i guarantee one thing pet gonna die to aoe in first 5seconds.. so why bother summoning it? im exagerating a LITTLE.. some mobs he lives...but in 90percent of the cases my pet is totally useless on raids. to make up for this FACT the bstlord needs higher dps .

speaking of dps.. a warrior gets a 46dmg epic 2.0 while the bstlord gets 38dmg epic 2.0 /boggle which class is the dps.... ????

and monks get a monk only weapon that is 38dmg btw... same as epic 2.0 for bst ... bstlords get to work there ass off getting an epic that paladins  / monk / warrior can get as  a drop off mobs, meaning 38dmg or better

what it comes down to is for a useless pet we get screwed on dps, and by useless i mean take the pet into old sebilis and have it tank juggs.. u will be healing the crap out of that pet , my point is those are very old world low lvl mobs.. how the hell is that 70lvl pet gonna survive against mobs that you should be soloing against? answer it aint....

im asking that the entire bstlord community start raising holy hell. this is bs i made a bstlord so i could solo when i cant find a grp.
Now i realize some people are gonna say "but i can solo" hmmm ok go outsolo a paladin then get back to me.

for the paladins im referring to are 11kish non buffed which every paladin in my guild has that or better

forgot to mention some heal over time spells like the 580ish hot that paladins have but give to bstlords SELF only and give bsts some better healing spells and make them SELF only this will help in soloing

i wasnt sure where to post this u can move it as you see fit, it is not a flame / or whining im simply stating what i have witnessed in game.

[Kayzarian]

Tastian does the best job that he can with getting beastlord issues addressed as soon as possible. For example our dps, itemization and AAs are all in the Current Top 10 list(7-1-05).

As for a solo pulling method, Pet Pulling works quite well for most cases. Sometimes additional buffs like Feral Guard are reccommended though.

As for the juggs, I've only had problems while farming spells there, not counting trakanon spawning, when I had to deal with the protector and friends.

Why play a beastlord instead of a paladin?
Because I have more fun as a beastlord.

[Khayden]

First off soloing trophy mobs is irrelevant to class balance.  Not just my opinion but what the devs have said.  They're not going to balance the game around who can kill Gaukr.  Beasts are not designed to stand toe to toe with named mobs of a similar level, sorry.  That's just how it is.  Bsts solo for xp by killing lots of slightly weaker mobs fast. 

Second, you're doing some things wrong.  I imagine you have a pet focus so why not put your pet on guard and hold when he's offtanking a Jugg - he will either outregen it or need a heal once every couple of minutes.  Why are you fighting three at once?  Can't you use a green pet to single them? 

Thirdly, Paladins.  A pally gets a 43/30 weapon for 1kpp because they can't dual wield.  That's like us getting two 17/20 weapons very cheap.... oh wait, we can!  Pallies are designed to take lots of punishment and be able to heal and do very little DPS.  That means standing toe to toe against a named they will almost always outdo a beastlord.  Live with it.  Pallies heal better than us, but do they get to reduce mob dps on them by 65%?  You're comparing apples and oranges and it has no relevance, why do we care what a pally can solo?

The only thing in your post I agree with is that we need more DPS at the high end.  If you want to be able to solo red con named try a necro, that's not what a beast is.

Khayden

[Zorthaz]

This paladin wasn't using the bug with AA casting to spam his group heal over and over at no mana cost?  Did you see this since the latest patch?

[Dancolen]

We single pull things that bards/monks cant.
but no, I dun agree with most of the rest.

Is true pet could use some mitigation, but not more HP,  more HP without mitigation/avoidance = stupid.
and mitigation/avoidance would have nec/mag screaming.

Pally with 450 aa in our guild does 160dps with epic 1.5
I have 620 aa, and do 200dps.  120~ melee on a good day,   60 pet, and 20-40 nukes/procs.
Pallies are powerful, but seriously doubt they outsolo me.... ill poke my friend and see.
He used to barely be able to solo named in Teneberous mountains..but that was a LONG time ago.
At that time, I could solo them without breaking a sweat.


It is very true we are uber at low level, forgive the use of the word.
It is very true, we do not get a decent dps progression as we get geared/aaed.
It is very true we may get outdpsed by Pallies and especially warriors.
It very true the pet lacks some defensively.

However given the bug on pallies recently, I would wonder about your friend soloing that..
I dont remember having a rough time at Juggs tho....

and for the one who said /pet hold/guard...
that doesnt work anymore.
the super regen of a focus doesnt kick in unless the pet is not attacking AND not on a mob's target window.
Since Allandu has 200regen naturally tho, not sure if that works for it or not, but I know when they changed it, it worked VERY well for Sorsha, at the time I was using the regen to get fungus grove shards for friends, and would let the pet regen all the way up after getting a beat down during 60% of the mob's life.  He'd regen to full in a minute or two with mob beating on him once i did /pet hold.
He dont do that anymore.

I havent scientifically tested it with allandu, but I dont see the regen kicking in during fights.... even with hold.

[Khayden]

Hmm it seemed to me to be working the other day but that could just be that he was taking less damage than I thought he should have.

Khayden

[gordulek]

You say:

Im no newb that doesnt know how to play my class

And yet also say:

bsts have no way of solo pulling.

That floored me.  You do not know how to play your class while soloing, son.  Fact.  Lord knows what else you're doing wrong.

It's ironic that your pally v. bst example is Gaukr, because I've watched a bst single-pull Gaukr to the open courtyard area.  I wouldn't be surprised if an Anguish-geared bst could solo him.  Not you obviously, but any other Anguish-geared bst.

this is bs i made a bstlord so i could solo when i cant find a grp.
Now i realize some people are gonna say "but i can solo" hmmm ok go outsolo a paladin then get back to me.

Outsolo certain trophy mobs?  Maybe, as pointed out in posts above.  Outsolo for xp or sellable plat drops from nameds?  You are the only person in all of EQ that thinks that, if you do indeed believe that.

i watched a 70paladin go into torden,the bastion of thunder and SOLO gaukr PLUS his 2 guards.  NONE of the mobs were slowed

I'm pretty sure this was before the group heal aa got fixed.  See if he can do it now that it has been fixed in last patch.  It might be possible.  But I also think a similarly geared beastlord can do it, see above.

And, this is really beside the point, but do you know for a fact that he didn't slow them?

a paladin has 1 second heals can buy a 43dmg 30dly weapon for 1k pp and then have a weapon better than our 2.0 epic

Yeah, Blade of Disruption is better than bst epic 2.0.  /nod

it is not a flame / or whining

Flame?  Perhaps not.  Whining?  Most definitely.


Gordulek
Stromm

[Dancolen]

seem to remember a 25% slow available to pallies from gunthak or somewhere .... /shrug.

some gimpy sword, but it procced a 25% slow or something similar...  friend Pally was looking for it one time.

[gordulek]

Yeah, there's a 20% slow proc'er from SG and a 35% from DN.  Probably more that I don't know about.  A pally can even tash him first, hehe.

And, yes, before anyone asks - my main is a pally :wink:.  But that didn't influence my reply above at all :-D.

Gordulek

[daarksoul]

on soloing gaukr and his 2 guards.

"This paladin wasn't using the bug with AA casting to spam his group heal over and over at no mana cost?  Did you see this since the latest patch?"

had the paladin do it again today for me aug 16. he pulled all 3, killed guards first then focused on gaukr. he won with 40%ish mana

I used gaukr as an example only.

as for PET pulling i consider that an exploit /shrug a low lvl pet should NOT be able to pull mobs single even tho sony is too lazy to fix it. IF you dont use the pet pulling exploit then my statement is correct bsts have no way to single pull , paci or fd

as far as bsts outsoloing paladins your delusional sigh. its apparent that you close your eyes to the fact that compared to other classes we have become the rog "rog used to suck till sony finally fixed them"

as far as fixing dps not being an overnight fix.. they made the beserker class No problem... they COULD fix bsts tomorow if they were so inclined.


" Bsts solo for xp by killing lots of slightly weaker mobs fast."

you mean by slightly weaker mobs 20 lvls below us?



"Outsolo certain trophy mobs?  Maybe, as pointed out in posts above.  Outsolo for xp or sellable plat drops from nameds?  You are the only person in all of EQ that thinks that, if you do indeed believe that."

name ANY mob a bstlord can solo that a high lvl pally cant solo..... just ONE...
I've already named one that a bstlord cant solo and thats gaukr....


One more point on the useing green pet to single pull. IF you use that exploit then how do you keep the mob from WALKING away at 20percent life to his friends and training you? which if that happens NOW u got 3 or more mobs and a green pet ... weeee.... yea thats a good solution

"I'm pretty sure this was before the group heal aa got fixed.  See if he can do it now that it has been fixed in last patch.  It might be possible.  But I also think a similarly geared beastlord can do it, see above.

And, this is really beside the point, but do you know for a fact that he didn't slow them?"

yes i know for a fact the mobs were not slowed


"If you think im wrong.. then i throw out this challenge i want any bstlord to go solo gaukr and his 2 guards... self buffed only... just like the 70paladin did.. OR heck with it go get raid buffed and try...fyi for any who may not know gaukr procs a 1400DD and unslowed can proc 3 times in 30seconds no problem.."

your quick to slam me about how wrong i am yet.. NOONE has asnwered my challenge

[Dreead]

Seriously, if you don't like playing a beast, then simply don't play one. Easy as that. No one is forcing you.

In addition. I don't group for exp, i solo in PoFire. It's not hard, and the mobs are not 20 levels below me.

Try and have some fun while playing, instead of making your game play an endless rant.

I don't play my class to go into contest with other classes. Great a top end geared paladin, probably with the best equipment that he can get, can solo 3 mobs. Great who cares?

You are very quick to disagree with anything anyone says, you're getting very defensive. I don;'t blieve everything you say, just seems to me like 1 bad thing happens and you go and curse at the world cause life isn't fair.

[Iskandar]

"name ANY mob a *insert class* can solo that a high lvl *insert class* cant solo"

It's funny how flexible this comment is. :wink:

Like Dreead, I don't particularly care if one class can do something I can't do. It's sorta the nature of the game... wouldn't be much point in classes if everyone could do everything equally well. If I wanted to play an *insert class here* I'd play one... but since I play a Beastlord more times than not, I guess that answers that :lol:

And, as a side comment, when I solo, the critters are usually between levels 63-67 (3-7 levels below me). I could hit higher level mobs, but I solo when I want a nice, quiet, relaxing, low-stress exp grind, so I stick to those mobs that can provide that for a few hours.

[Khayden]

you mean by slightly weaker mobs 20 lvls below us?

No I mean mobs 3-10 levels below us.  If you think a pally can get more xp than us solo then that's a challenge I'll take any day.  Ever seen a pally solo kiting tables?  Or soloing all but 1 fight of his epic 1.5?

how do you keep the mob from WALKING away at 20percent life

Umm any one of a number of ways.  Nuke him, snare him being the obvious ones.

your quick to slam me about how wrong i am yet.. NOONE has asnwered my challenge

Because your "challenge" is totally irrelevant, who cares what mob a pally can solo? 

Here's turnabout - explain how a paladin can out XP a similarly geared beastlord solo.

What do you expect when you compare a pally one hander to the bst epic, and base your whole arguement on an end game geared pally's ability to solo a single meaningless named in 4 year-old content?  Don't you think it's possible that a pally might solo better than us in a small number of situations but in general we are far better than them at doing so?  You picked Gaukr, a fight where being able to take high melee dps and heal lots quickly is a big advantage, and shock horror the class that does both of those things can do it best.  I'd still bet that a similarly geared beastlord could do the same if not come very close.

Anyway why do you really think balance has anything to do with soloing at all? 

It seems to me like you're angry that another class can do something you can't.  Get over it.  I dread to think what your reaction would be if you went and read about the ranger soloing Tallon Zek...

Khayden

[gordulek]

as far as bsts outsoloing paladins your delusional sigh. its apparent that you close your eyes to the fact that compared to other classes we have become the rog "rog used to suck till sony finally fixed them"

you mean by slightly weaker mobs 20 lvls below us?

name ANY mob a bstlord can solo that a high lvl pally cant solo..... just ONE...

how do you keep the mob from WALKING away at 20percent life to his friends and training you? which if that happens NOW u got 3 or more mobs and a green pet ... weeee.... yea thats a good solution

Your ignorance knows no bounds.  Beasts are an excellent xp soloing class.  Not if you're killing level 50 mobs, of course.  Try another zone, I know Dulak has phat lewts, but really.  And the 20% walk is covered above - heck, pull him all the way to the zone in and you'd have plenty of time to kill him.  You in Anguish is like giving the keys to a Ferrari to a 12-year old........a blind 12-year old.

[Shirrkarn Ayge]

For what its worth Gaukr dont run on low health anyway, however he will gate if you pull him far enough from his spawn point. And yes all the BoT mini's can be solo'd by a beast.  Again using gaukr as the example, the pally did not have a clue if he agro'd all 3 mobs, all you need to do is pull one of his guards and Gaukr will follow him leaving other guard in place.

However at the end of the day this post is just a waste of space, I do not judge how much I enjoy beastlord by comparing to what other classes can do. I judge it against what I can do and constantly try to set new goals for myself. OK I may fail, but thats part of the fun.