Beastlord pets should mitigate better then any other pet as we are melee, not casters. Necro's and mages have other benefits/strengths. There's no reason to consider the beastlord pet as substandard compared to the mage. Our pet needs to be very effective mitigating, avoiding and doing more damage then the other pets as they are pretty much a good precentage of our overall effectivenes. You can take away the pets from the mage and the necro and it won't impact them significantly, but take away the pet from the beast and you have impacted their dps in a major way.
I have no problem with mage pets having better mitigation than ours. On most standard raids your pet should not be tanking so this change should only affect soloing and some group situations. When soloing, a mage needs the better mitigation as their pet will be tanking the mob unslowed. Beastlords can slow and Necros can slow undead if they need to. Necros can also use various kiting methods. This will give mage pets the little boost that they need but I can't see this change affecting overall balance a hell of lot.
Back to the main issue, is it only pet hastes that are broken or all haste spells on pets? I mean, could I use Celerity on my warder to try and get some of his DPS back?
Mages should never outtank our pets and hence should never mitigate bettter then us, period. They are a pure dps class and that is what their pets do better then ours with their innate procs, damage shields, etc.
Our pets should always outtank their pets in any given situation irrespective of their inability to slow a mob. Mages have a superior aspects to their pets: faster cast, less mana, specialization, endless duration buffs (innate procs, damage shields, root, etc), as well as gear that they can give to their pets that acts like buffs that never wear off. Their belt can provide 500hp, their swords and fists another 100+. That's 600hp compared to ours. Ours wears off and we have to keep rebuffing but theirs stays till their pet dies.
There's more then enough to their arsenal besides just their pets. They get massive nukes with tremendous mana regen via forms of their elementals, they get efficiency gear that they can summon to help make their spells be more impacting, etc.
Enough is enough. We are the defensive melee hybrid and our pets should reflect that.
Quote from: TiggreMages should never outtank our pets and hence should never mitigate bettter then us, period. They are a pure dps class and that is what their pets do better then ours with their innate procs, damage shields, etc.
You are joking right?. tell me you are joking...
or is it that you know NOTHING at all about mages?
Well first of all let's summarize what mages are:
Mages are the masters of the elements and summonings.
That does NOT mean they are the masters of the nukes, wizards are above and druids are on par with their nuking power
That however DOES mean they are supposed to be the master pet class, and that is the reason why they have 4 different pets while you have 1 and necromancers have 2.
Magicians have given every single ability (but nuking, but then again they don't nuke that well) for their pets: they can't evade damages (through roots, snares or speed enhancing buffs for them), they can't mitigate damage on themselves at all (no self heals, runes, no slows) and can only heal their pets, they have no way to lower their agro but doing nothing and have no chance in surviving a beating EVER (while i've seen BLs rampage tanking EP bosses - except Magmaton or Krziik - w/o that much trouble with good healers behind), they have no buffs for others and their self only buffs clearly suck.
Mages have no "special" ability but:
1- their pets
2- their very limited capacity to summon toys (rods, focus items, pet items)
Mage have been, until the release of the BL class, the uncontested #1 pet master, and that's where they should still be, because their pets is all the power they have, the fact that mage = pet is well summarized by the fact that their very EPIC summons a pet
Now about Mage pets (PoP only, won't speak about epic pet here)
They can chose between 4 very different pets and have to do it well
a- Air pet, average melee dps, average hps, average mitigation, procs a low level magic based DD+stun, warrior
b- Water pet, average high to high melee dps, low hps, low mitigation, procs a low level Cold DD, ROGUE Pet, can Backstab from behind
c- Fire pet, low melee dps, low hps, low mitigation, innate Damage Shield, WIZARD pet, will cast wizard spells, very low mana pool
d- Earth pet, average melee dps, average high hps, average mitigation, procs a low level DD+root, warrior
You don't have many innate procs, only 1/pet, you have to choose your pet very carefully because they all have weaknesses, pets have lost their "immunities" (Fire used to be immune to Fire spells, Water to Cold, Earth to Disease and Air to Poison) so you can't factor that in anymore, and Earth root sucks (highly resisted and will often cause pet to get agro and get killed if it lands)
Their only pet buff beastlord doesn't have is DS, and said DS has an amazing
7.5mn duration
QuoteOur pets should always outtank their pets in any given situation irrespective of their inability to slow a mob.
As i said before, this is just wrong, Mages pets are situationnal, warders should be able to outtank some of their pets, but should be on par with Air pet tanking wise, and under Earth one
QuoteMages have a superior aspects to their pets: faster cast, less mana, specialization, endless duration buffs (innate procs, damage shields, root, etc),
Rathe's Son
Summon Pet: SumEarthR15
Mana: 400
Skill: Conjuration
Casting Time: 10
Spirit of Sorsha
Summon Warder: BLpet51
Mana: 400
Skill: Conjuration
Casting Time: 10
Same mana cost, same casting time, the only difference will be the Specialization, but then again do you often cast a pet? let's say once per hour, specialization@200 is a 10% mana save, this means that they gain an amazing 40 mana/hour from specialization on pet.
If you have problems with calculus, that's 0.07 mana/tick. Wow, that's a damn high edge over Beastlords
Buffs:
1- Mages get only 1 innate proc/pet, if they want to change the proc they have to... summon a new pet
2- Spirit of Flame duration 48mn, Spirit of Rellic duration 48mn, Spirit of Frost duration 48mn, Arag's Celerity duration 48mn.
Flameshield of Ro (DS) duration 7.5mn, Burnout V (haste) duration 25mn
Your buffs last twice as long as mage's haste, more than 5 times longer than their DS, and your proc buffs give the same damaging capacities as innate mages procs... except than mages only get DDs on magic and cold...
You were wrong
Quoteas well as gear that they can give to their pets that acts like buffs that never wear off. Their belt can provide 500hp, their swords and fists another 100+. That's 600hp compared to ours. Ours wears off and we have to keep rebuffing but theirs stays till their pet dies.
Granted the cost of Talisman of Kragg, Mages only get an edge over beastlords if their pet lasts longer than 1h.
Yeah guess you really have to cry
and having to recast a buff every hour must be so tiring
QuoteThere's more then enough to their arsenal besides just their pets. They get massive nukes with tremendous mana regen via forms of their elementals
As already said, their nukes are only on par with Druids (who also have utility spells, heals and dots), and highly resisted, and your "mana regen" comment must be a joke: they have only
ONE elemental form with mana regen (out of the 4 they can get), and it gives them a whopping
4 mana per tick... wow...
well... base Paragon of Spirit is already 3.2 mana/tick, gets up to 4.26 with Spell Casting Reinforcement 3, and if i remember well Extended Duration items affect it too... Funny, BLs get more mana regen from their AAs than mages... and BL's is group buff on top of that
Quotethey get efficiency gear that they can summon to help make their spells be more impacting, etc.
Irrevelant here, what they can summon can usually be bought in bazaar and is the lowest possible level of spell focuses, not to mention the fundamentally crappy stats of their summoned items meaning what you want is to get rid of them as soon as possible
QuoteEnough is enough. We are the defensive melee hybrid and our pets should reflect that.
You are a pet class, and mages should OutPet you when using a pet designed for the comparison, Earth pet should outtank any BL pet and Water pet should OutDPS BL pet whatever the situation.
I figure mage and beast are even. Their pet of same level owns ours, but in a bare knuckle brawl, we would beat their silly dress wearing AC (no offense meant about the dress comment). I think mages have been shafted a little, and would like to see them fixed. I like grouping with mages and hope they get back their title of pet caster supreme.
Totally agree with you there Maskinn, Tiggre's post was so stupid it's almost embarrassing being a beastlord with opinions like that being available for public consumption :cry:
Masklinn,
Really, there is a LOT of misinformation and non-truths in your post.
Extended enhancement items do not effect paragon.
Could you please elaborate on the "low-level" DD procs your pets get?
You're throwing around numbers until then and all of the sudden you go with very generic terms.
Your earth pet getting agro and getting killed? Getting agro from whom? Not a PC, it's impossible. I've yet to see any other pet, Mage or Necro steal agro from my pet (if you're referring to getting agro from other pets).
When you factor in mana regen, you'll need to also talk about mod-rods.
The DS you can put on your pet should be factored into your pets overall DPS somehow.
And what about pet toys? Duel wielding proc'ing swords (what is it 150 cold DD ?) The stat belt and haste mask...
I won't sit here and say Mages don't need some tweaking, but come with factual stuff, not generalizations and underestimations of a Mage's power.
**If you want to be taken seriously...
:wink:
Quote from: ScalewulfMasklinn,
Really, there is a LOT of misinformation and non-truths in your post.
Extended enhancement items do not effect paragon.
Could you please elaborate on the "low-level" DD procs your pets get?
You're throwing around numbers until then and all of the sudden you go with very generic terms.
Your earth pet getting agro and getting killed? Getting agro from whom? Not a PC, it's impossible. I've yet to see any other pet, Mage or Necro steal agro from my pet (if you're referring to getting agro from other pets).
When you factor in mana regen, you'll need to also talk about mod-rods.
The DS you can put on your pet should be factored into your pets overall DPS somehow.
And what about pet toys? Duel wielding proc'ing swords (what is it 150 cold DD ?) The stat belt and haste mask...
I won't sit here and say Mages don't need some tweaking, but come with factual stuff, not generalizations and underestimations of a Mage's power.
**If you want to be taken seriously...
:wink:
Ok, I will step into this discussion with a bit of trepedation. Let me first say I play both a mage and a beastlord and love both classes. I also group alot with a couple of friends that have beastlords when I am playing my mage so I do understand some of the differences. I am really just trying to answer a few questions here, not get into a debate about which class is better and which needs nerfed or fixed.
First, the low-level DD mentioned does not really exist. The air pet casts a Stun DD (no damage that I have ever seen but I don't duel), the 65 Earth pet I don't yet have due to availability of runes, but if he is like the other earth pets, he casts a Root DD that also causes no damage. The Fire pet is a Wizard and has access to wizard spells but a mana pool that only allows him to cast a few spells before going OOM. Also, there is no way to control what spells he casts, so he might cast root 5 times in a row, or Ice comet on a fleeing mob.
As for earth pet getting agro, this is very simple. If a mob is rooted he will attack the closest Pet to him, regardless of hate list. If a PC is in there, he will get the agro, but otherwise the closest pet will get it. If a necro is in your group, kiss the necro pet goodby, they have a smaller melee range, so are always closer. For the BST vs. Mage pet it will depend on positioning because both have the same melee range. Also, just as an FYI, my air pet takes agro from a BST pet about half the time. Stun is a huge agro generator, and BST's can give a proc that will reduce the agro generated by their pets.
As for mana regen, Mages are screwed plain and simple. Adding Mod rods into mana regen really isn't that big a deal. You can only use them once every 5 min. They have 3 charges, and take a bit more than the mana you get from one of those charges to summon. For the most part I use my mod rods are emergancy mana, meaning I am running low and really need that last nuke, or pet heal.
Including DS into pet DPS is a bit difficult as this really depends on how much the mob you are fighting hits your pet. A mob that quads for low damage with h2h weapons is going to take alot more damage than one that does massive damage from a slow strike like a 2hs. Also bash and kick will cause more damage on mobs that cause it. That said, DS does alot of damage to mobs, at 65 my DS is doing 45 points of damage every time my pet gets hit.
Pet toys are great, Mages get the first ones very early in their career (around level 8) and are used throughout. The 61+ toys are awesome additions to the pets abilities, and they each do 150 DD proc when they go off. We can also decide what type of DD to do between fire, magic, and cold. All BST's should ask for the fire one (the fist). The belt adds HP to the pets, and the mask will add haste.
The Mage class is a very powerful class and there is alot of misunderstanding about what it is out there. We are Nukers on par with Druids, (only have magic and fire based nukes that are the most resisted in the game). We can Debuff a bit with Malo line, we can summon some nice items for others, and we are not nearly so dependant on gear as some classes. We have very nice pets that are better than any others excpet the bst pet.
On the downside the mage class needs some work. Our only defense is our pet and gate, we can't root, snare, sow, charm or mez except in very limited conditions. We have very poor mana regen compared to other casters, and our pets are getting weeker and weeker compared to new mobs.
BSTs do not get a proc to lower pet agro.
Magician Air pets can take Agro from a BST pet who's been very unlucky, but not otherwise.
Including DPS into "pet DPS" is difficult, but barring kiting groups somebody is getting hit.
You are nukers second only to Wizards. On Par with druids is seriously downplaying your nukes.
You can't root snare SoW charm or mez.
BSTs can't root snare charm or mez ever. SoW isn't really needed with Swift Journey 2. BST pets are also getting weaker and weaker compared to new mobs.
And, just to add, a non-uber Magician will do about 3x the DPS as a beastlord like me...and while the gap closes it never shrinks to zero, or even really close to zero.
Quote from: TerjynPovarBSTs do not get a proc to lower pet agro.
Eh? Spirit of Snow and Spirit of Flame both lower Hate by 50 points per prioc. True, it's the pet causing Hate to be lowered, not the BST directly, but it's aggro reduction just the same.
And as Gronker recently reminded me on my guild's message board, BSTs can snare by getting the Hobble of Spirits AA...not the best, but it can get the job done if you really need it.
Game on,
The Oneiromancer
Quote from: OneiromancerQuote from: TerjynPovarBSTs do not get a proc to lower pet agro.
Eh? Spirit of Snow and Spirit of Flame both lower Hate by 50 points per prioc. True, it's the pet causing Hate to be lowered, not the BST directly, but it's aggro reduction just the same.
And as Gronker recently reminded me on my guild's message board, BSTs can snare by getting the Hobble of Spirits AA...not the best, but it can get the job done if you really need it.
Game on,
The Oneiromancer
Thanks Oneiromancer, you beat me to it. :)
I wasn't trying to compare mage vs. bst when I made that post, just answering some of the misconseptions. I know bst's can't mez, charm, root, or snare. And as a casual player Run5 isn't really an option yet. I only have 23 AA points on my Mage at this point so SOW is a huge advantage when I can get it.
Oh I am about to get suspend minon AA so that should help with getting out of a bad situation. I think BST's can get that one as well, but not sure.
Quote from: WiskieOh I am about to get suspend minon AA so that should help with getting out of a bad situation. I think BST's can get that one as well, but not sure.
Yes, we can. Another one of the many AAs that I can't wait until I hit 65 to start getting. (Because I'm trying my hardest to be "good" and wait...level 62 now, almost there! :D )
Game on,
The Oneiromancer
Spirit of Snow and Spirit of Flame have an agro reduction of 50 points...which is still tremendously BELOW the amount of agro they generate from the proc.
If the proc from Snow would be 200, it is only 150 because of the reduction. This is still enough to steal agro from a Magician pet.
This is one of those things that I seriously wish was better explained by a place like Lucy...people always come here thinking that somehow Snow and Flame are going to lower overall agro, which is patently false.
And Hobble of Spirits not only is too random to be much good (and he said Magicians don't get root. If they don't get root, we don't get Snare) but on top of that it lowers BST DPS and survivability by a lot to use it. Hobble is very *very* situational.
lemme pop in with a few more facts real fast
the 60+ mage pets do damage with there innate cast spells
60+ air pet spell http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=1020&source=Live
60+ earth pet spell http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=3193&source=Live
60+ fire pet http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=893&source=Live
60+ water pet http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=1021&source=Live
not alot of damage mind you, but its what they cast.
Is mages having better pets than us going to affect you in any way whatsoever?, No, it isn't. So stop the retarded class envy. That belongs on every board besides this one.
I wasn't aware that Magicians could heal their pets....
Quote from: Masklinn
Mages are the masters of the elements and summonings.
I dunno, this just annoys me. It's like hte people who say "Bards are jack of all trades master of none" or some crap like that. i want to smack them, seriously, it's just some cliche crap pulled from Allakhazam's or from a forum oldtimer trying to make himself look neat.
Look, Mr. Mage... "Master of the Elements" isn't a role in a group or a raid. If you want to play with mud and a zippo, do it in Half Life or something. you're in this game to crank out DPS. Congratulations, you have a variety of pets to help you with this.
Now stop foaming and go play. I swear half the time I think people who rant about their class sucking are too busy ranting about their class sucking to actually go see if the class sucks.
Sorry for being one of the primary deflectors of the thread...I just get so tired of seeing Magicians or especially the people who "Play both a Magician and a Beastlord" who artificially inflate the BST power and artificially downplay what a Magician can do.
Quote from: TerjynPovarSorry for being one of the primary deflectors of the thread...I just get so tired of seeing Magicians or especially the people who "Play both a Magician and a Beastlord" who artificially inflate the BST power and artificially downplay what a Magician can do.
Who else can talk about the difference between the two classes? (And just for the record, I was not trying to compare BST and Mage. Just explain some of the difficulties that mages face)
Thanks Morganti, didn't realize they actually could do damage. Never see any message and I never noticed any damage being done to the mobs.
Also sorry for hijacking your thread. Won't post in those one anymore.
Quote from: WiskieWho else can talk about the difference between the two classes?
It seems like most people who say they've played both and are giving an honest comparison have played one class to 65 and Powerleveled the other one, so only have a superficial feel of what the second class is actually like to play.
Alternatively, they started the second class because they were extremely bitter about the first class they played.
In the first case, they don't really have the knowledge base to make a true comparison, in the second they are far too biased to make a true comparison.
Quote from: TerjynPovarQuote from: WiskieWho else can talk about the difference between the two classes?
It seems like most people who say they've played both and are giving an honest comparison have played one class to 65 and Powerleveled the other one, so only have a superficial feel of what the second class is actually like to play.
Alternatively, they started the second class because they were extremely bitter about the first class they played.
In the first case, they don't really have the knowledge base to make a true comparison, in the second they are far too biased to make a true comparison.
Ok a bit of background to go with my statements then. :)
I started playing EQ about a month before Kunark came out and created my mage about (within a week) of Kunark coming out. Really liked the mage class, but I was frustrated with some of the bugs in the game at that point that made playing a mage very difficult.
I created a druid and played that class for a long time with some experimenting on other classes.
When Luclin came out I created a BST on the 2nd day (couldn't get into the servers the first day) and played him on and off with my druid.
About the time PoP came out, I started playing my mage again and have since reached level 65. My BST is level 53 and my druid is level 56. No powerleveling on any of these classes beyond some buffs from passing guild mates or other kind casters. Yes I leveled my BST from 36 to 45 during the time I could get KEI on him.
I mostly solo or single group. Very little raiding. I am a casual player and usually only get about 5-10 hours to play during the week with a few more on the weekend (when I usually do what raiding I can.)
We have 2 level 65 BST's in our guild that I group with alot with my mage. Add a 62 necro in there, and we hunt about once or twice a week. With my BST I hunt with a druid, shaman, sk, and cleric when I group, but solo alot.
I really didn't mean to suggest that BST's are overpowered or that mages are weak. I love the mage class and the BST class. They are by far my favorite ones in the game.
I wasn't casting accusations at you. I was actually thinking of another person who used to make bald faced lies regarding the power of a Monk vs. that of a Beastlord on the old EQBeastlord forums.
Quote from: ScalewulfMasklinn,
Really, there is a LOT of misinformation and non-truths in your post.
First of all my main is not a mage nor a BL but a necromancer, Tiggre's post just annoyed me so much is felt i had to post :wink:
QuoteExtended enhancement items do not effect paragon.
Well then seems i was wrong and i appologize for that one
But the mana regen Bls get from AAs is still higher than the one Mages get
QuoteCould you please elaborate on the "low-level" DD procs your pets get?
You're throwing around numbers until then and all of the sudden you go with very generic terms.
Sorry, i didn't have the numbers, they have been posted after my post
Well water pet gets a ~ 100ish cold DD (not 150 since it's 60 not 65), air ~70, earth ~65-70, i don't call that "huge" DDs but more like low ones, kinda like necro pet's lifetap hitting for 60ish (but note that only Earth's root has a resist adjustment, added to the level 60 of pets this means noticeable resists on mage pet's nukes)
QuoteYour earth pet getting agro and getting killed? Getting agro from whom? Not a PC, it's impossible. I've yet to see any other pet, Mage or Necro steal agro from my pet (if you're referring to getting agro from other pets).
Root makes mob target and kill the closest thing, i even doubt the PC/Pet thing gets factored it, Earth pet procs a root... not many thing else to say ;)
QuoteWhen you factor in mana regen, you'll need to also talk about mod-rods.
Well that's false, because then i'd also need to factor in SD
But i can do both
SD: 425 mana cost, 45mn (450 ticks), 9 mana/tick, 9 hps/tick
total: 3625 mana gain (avg 8.05 mana/tick) 4050 hps gain over the 45mn
Rod: 400 mana cost, 3 charges of 450 hps loss 360 mana gain, 5mn recast (15mn total duration)
total over 45mn (3 rods): 2040 mana gain (360 * 3 * 3 - 400 * 3), 4050 hps loss aka +4.53 mana/tick and -9 hps/tick
Beastlords are over mages again (edge is lower if we consider the PvP damage reduction making rods "only" 340 damages)
QuoteThe DS you can put on your pet should be factored into your pets overall DPS somehow.
Unless pet tanks it can't, and since mages can't slow mobs they won't make their pets tank past Luclin days (or maybe PoD/PoN for a lvl 65 mage...)
QuoteAnd what about pet toys? Duel wielding proc'ing swords (what is it 150 cold DD ?) The stat belt and haste mask...
Mask is 11% haste, but i don't know what the pet haste cap is now
swords/fists are all DD 150, but BLs can get them as well (as well as belts muzzle), i myself as a necro only have to ask to a mage before i'm going doing what i want to do.
If you admit you are a Necro as opposed to a Magician or Beastlord, then just stop. You keep posting things which are wrong or misleading, or both.
QuoteBut the mana regen Bls get from AAs is still higher than the one Mages get
This is just the type of comment people throw out there when they don't have anything real to say.
QuoteRoot makes mob target and kill the closest thing, i even doubt the PC/Pet thing gets factored it, Earth pet procs a root... not many thing else to say
Root makes the mob target and kill the closest PC. As always, pets aren't factored in at all unless there are no PCs within range. As a necro, the only pet class with Root, you'd think you'd know this.
QuoteWell that's false, because then i'd also need to factor in SD
But i can do both
SD: 425 mana cost, 45mn (450 ticks), 9 mana/tick, 9 hps/tick
total: 3625 mana gain (avg 8.05 mana/tick) 4050 hps gain over the 45mn
Rod: 400 mana cost, 3 charges of 450 hps loss 360 mana gain, 5mn recast (15mn total duration)
total over 45mn (3 rods): 2040 mana gain (360 * 3 * 3 - 400 * 3), 4050 hps loss aka +4.53 mana/tick and -9 hps/tick
Beastlords are over mages again (edge is lower if we consider the PvP damage reduction making rods "only" 340 damages)
This is ignoring Specialization, which makes all of a Magician's spells cheaper.
Even given that however...more Mana Regen is only better if it actually matters. This is a tough concept to grasp for most people. A Magician with Mod Rods doesn't need more mana regen in order to outdamage a beastlord handily. If Magicians had more mana regen, they'd outdamage beastlords by even more. Yet because BSTs have "more mana regen" people use that to excuse all kinds of fallacious arguments.
QuoteUnless pet tanks it can't, and since mages can't slow mobs they won't make their pets tank past Luclin days (or maybe PoD/PoN for a lvl 65 mage...)
Unless you are kiting somebody is getting hit, so the Damage Shield counts, even if it's not on the pet.
While BST pets can tank in PoP, it's not efficient. Why are Magi and their supporters so hung up on not being able to do something so inefficient that BSTs don't want to do it anyway?
Quoteswords/fists are all DD 150, but BLs can get them as well (as well as belts muzzle), i myself as a necro only have to ask to a mage before i'm going doing what i want to do.
BSTs can get them too...but then Magicians can get Mana Regen spells cast on them as well.
Sheesh. Pretty much quoted directly from an earlier part of the thread: Stop downplaying what a Magician can do and overexaggerating what Beastlords can do to make yourself feel better. FFS, you are a Necro...why did you get in the middle of this anyway? Tiggre's post was moronic, but come back with reality, not some warped skewed version of it.
QuoteTiggre's post was so stupid it's almost embarrassing being a beastlord with opinions like that being available for public consumption
my thoughts exactly, this topic isnt even close to being worth taking seriously. tiggre (great name btw!) you're right, beastlords pretty much suck, and you should definitely go reroll a mage.
Quote from: Masklinn(edge is lower if we consider the PvP damage reduction making rods "only" 340 damages)
There is no PvP reduction for Rod of Mystical Transvergence. It does 450 damage, no more, no less.
Mod Rod is a maximum effective FT7.2 (which is only achievable if you have Magi`Kot's Pants of Convergence (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=19021), our Elemental pants, or someone else is summoning it for you). Otherwise, if you factor in specialization, AA, and 20% mana preservation (the maximum worn mana preservation?), its at most 5.6 FT. Not fatoring in spec, AA, and mana preserve, its 4.53 FT.This is at the cost of 9 HP/tic effective regeneration.
Quote from: TerjynPovarOn Par with druids is seriously downplaying your nukes.
If a druid specializes in Evocation and has Quick Damage AA, he is a significantly better nuker than a Magician. If he only has Quick Damage AA, he will still do more burst damage than a Magician with nukes alone. It takes the pet to push the Magician above the Druid.
60+ Fire pet does not use FireElementalAttack2. That spell is for our level 56 Dyzil's Deafening Decoy. On a side note, 51+ Fire pets are completely worthless, a failure on all levels, and absolutely the worst pets in Everquest (Druid bears are better, imo).
Quote from: DarkovI wasn't aware that Magicians could heal their pets....
We can, but its pathetically weak, especially compared to Beastlords (our only real edge is the faster cast time).
Planar Renewal
Slot Description
1: Increase Hitpoints by 1200
2: Decrease Disease Counter by 15
Mana: 300 Skill: Conjuration
Casting Time: 7 Recast Time: 7.5
Effective Healing: 171.4 HP/sec burst, 82.76 HP/sec sustained
Effective Efficiency: 4.0
Healing of Sorsha
Slot Description
1: Increase Hitpoints by 2100
2: Decrease Disease Counter by 10
Mana: 425 Skill: Alteration
Casting Time: 9 Recast Time: 2.25
Effective Healing: 233.3 HP/sec burst, 186.67 HP/sec sustained
Effective Efficiency: 4.94
Quote from: MasklinnMages pets are situationnal
Couldn't have said it better myself. Rathe's Son, our best pet tank, is the worst pet to use in groups because it roots. Servant of Marr, our most damaging pet, can't reach its maximum potential if it can't backstab, and it has virtually no defense whatsoever besides Enrage. Ward of Xegony is the pet of choice most of the time because of its stun spell and medium midigation. Child of Ro (like said above) is worthless.
Monster Summoning IV is too new to make an effective evaluation, but it appears to be simply an upgraded form of Ward of Xegony damagewise with worse midigation.
Quote from: ScalewulfYour earth pet getting agro and getting killed?
Root does that sometimes.
There are way too many factors for anyone here to compare the overall power of magician VS. beastlord in varies EQ situation.
However, it is extremely clear that the reason Tiggre used to complain about mage SUCKS really bad, like "we are melee so our pet should tank better"? what is that!?
There are certain aspect of Bst that I think should do better than Mag but to voice my opinion here in Tiggre's thread will degrade my points to nothingless.
Quote from: TerjynPovarIf you admit you are a Necro as opposed to a Magician or Beastlord, then just stop. You keep posting things which are wrong or misleading, or both.
I am a necro, and comparing my posts to Xalmat posts i have mistakes in mine but not that many
And i never claimed to be a mage or beastie, just check sig it said Arch Lich since the beginning
Oh yeah and i'm posting as a necro because it enables me to be more neutral than when i'm comparing necro Vs BLs or necro Vs mages (mind you i have to do researches on both these classes as the 3rd pet class)
QuoteQuoteBut the mana regen Bls get from AAs is still higher than the one Mages get
This is just the type of comment people throw out there when they don't have anything real to say.
No, that's just part of the argumentation, someone said mages get mana regen from their elemental form and i showed that:
1- they only get mana from 1 out of 4 forms
2- the mana regen they get from said AA is lower than the one Beastlords get from their own AAs (Paragon + SCR), the part you quoted was because i had been mistaken about Extended Duration items affecting Paragon... but then again i hadn't displayed any numbers with it factored in.
QuoteUnless you are kiting somebody is getting hit, so the Damage Shield counts, even if it's not on the pet.
good, now what if you read the quote i answered to?
QuoteThe DS you can put on your pet should be factored into your pets overall DPS somehow.
DS != pet DPS
QuoteWhile BST pets can tank in PoP, it's not efficient. Why are Magi and their supporters so hung up on not being able to do something so inefficient that BSTs don't want to do it anyway?
Sorry, re-read my post, never talked about that myself
QuoteQuoteswords/fists are all DD 150, but BLs can get them as well (as well as belts muzzle), i myself as a necro only have to ask to a mage before i'm going doing what i want to do.
BSTs can get them too...but then Magicians can get Mana Regen spells cast on them as well.
Differences being:
1- a mage has to get out of his XP session to get his buffs refresh
2- a beastie can bring 2 or 3 sets or mage toys, give them to pet if it ever dies and never needs to "refresh" the toys
QuoteFFS, you are a Necro...why did you get in the middle of this anyway?
I think i stated that in every post i made
I fail to see how a Druid outnukes a Mage, when a Druid lacks a 2k bolt. Druid nukes are situationally equal to mage nukes, when LoS is impossible to achieve. Equal under some circumstances is not the same as equal.
And, frankly, the Druid nuke argument is a strawman. Nukes are used for one thing, damage, if you can outdamage a Druid it matters not what method you use. You still do more damage.
Clerics nuke harder than Necros. Note how little that tells you about their relative dps.
Quote from: TerjynPovarIf you admit you are a Necro as opposed to a Magician or Beastlord, then just stop.
I'm not entering this debate because I don't have a high level character of either class. But I have to laugh out loud every time someone throws out this kind of assinine argument.
Is it because some people just refuse to believe that this is a game with
players of characters? And that those
players might have expertise in more than one narrow niche in the game?
If their expertise is in question then point out the errors and offer rebuttal. But don't stoop to the totally imbecilic statement of accusing someone of "not being" a class or of "being" some other class and therefore somehow unqualified due to that fact alone. That is such a cop out. There isn't a single Beastlord posting on this forum. We are all players of Everquest who happen to be interested in the class of Beastlord.
This game has some technical aspects to it but it truly isn't rocket science. I'm sure some of you are walking encyclopedia of the Beastlord class, but I would wager that makes you just as unqualified at comparing the class with another as someone who primarily plays another class comparing their's with a Beastlord. Or just as qualified if you are an optimist type.
Debate the facts and issue at hand, not the choice of main character.
Quote from: BrycI fail to see how a Druid outnukes a Mage, when a Druid lacks a 2k bolt.
Once they get Black Steel and Sun Vortex, most mages
never use their 2k bolt because of line of sight issues. Its a LOT worse than ranger archery. And with specialization in Conjuration, Sun Vortex and Black Steel end up being a LOT more mana efficient.
Most mages don't even mem their 2k bolt once they get their DD spells.
I certainly believe you when you say most mages don't use the Bolt. However, personal experience shows me that some mages DO use it. The mage I group with most often uses it heavily. Also, some random quotes from Mage's Tower would indicate Bolt fans:
65 Mage
Quote
With the pet thrown in and FBoT I generally outperform the wizard by a small to mid amount. This is generally true, but not always the case (though most of the time it is). On the times when the 64- wizard happens to already have 100 AA banked, his crits tend to even things up quite a bit.
When grouped with a 65 wizard with SoS and 30-50 AA, I am shamed by the damage they put out in a basic xp group.
Unknown
Quote
Personally, I find using DD is by far the laziest way to play. I don't need to worry about LoS, aggroing the guy upstairs, unnatural resists or pets bashing the mob out from under the rain. Having said that I am addicted to the damage done by FoT, despite being a conjuration mage.
64 Mage
Quote
I'm 200 Specialization Conjuration spec'd, but I find myself using Evocation nukes 90% of the time. The damage dealt by chaining Sun Storm and Firebolt of Tallon is HUGE! Once I get Black Steel, however, I will probably change my tactics around a little bit. I also find myself running out of mana incredibly fast from Sun Storm + Firebolt of Tallon.
So while many Mages may eschew FoT for LoS issues, those mages that DO use it outnuke Druids significantly. Therefore, while it may be accurate to say most Mages choose to nuke as hard as Druids, Mages CAN (and do) nuke harder. Using FoT may be a huge PITA, but the option is there.
Quote from: TiggreBeastlord pets should mitigate better then any other pet as we are melee, not casters. Necro's and mages have other benefits/strengths. There's no reason to consider the beastlord pet as substandard compared to the mage. Our pet needs to be very effective mitigating, avoiding and doing more damage then the other pets as they are pretty much a good precentage of our overall effectivenes. You can take away the pets from the mage and the necro and it won't impact them significantly, but take away the pet from the beast and you have impacted their dps in a major way.
Quote from: TiggreAnd thank you and your cohorts for your expert opinions on every other classes, including mine.
Remember this little gem Tiggre?
Enlighten us with your expert opinion on a class you've never played.
Quote from: ScalewulfMasklinn,
Could you please elaborate on the "low-level" DD procs your pets get?
You're throwing around numbers until then and all of the sudden you go with very generic terms.
Remember first off that mage pets (with the exception of epic and the new MSIV) cast their spells, they don't proc them.
Other than that
WoX casts every 16 seconds according to parses and it adds around 3-5 dps.
SoM casts every 8 seconds and adds a 15 DPS
Both of these are max (assuming no partial resists).
Quote
When you factor in mana regen, you'll need to also talk about mod-rods.
Oh yes, let's talk about Mod rods.
My group of regulars is Mag, BL, Cler, Dru, Wiz, War - All the casters use EQWatcher to time their rods and use them as often as they can.
My BL casts SD once every 45 minutes for 425 mana, the 5 casters all get 4050 mana back - the BL gains a net 3625 mana over 45 minutes, the others net 4050. He also Paragons 3 times in 45 mintues, that's another 1440 mana per person. Total mana per person is 5490, total HP per person is 7650.
My mage casts 3 rods per person - total of 15 - at a cost of 320 each (after spec conj and scm) for a total cost of 4800 mana. He recovers 3240 mana from the rod at a cost of 4050 hp - he has a net loss of 1560 mana every 45 mintues and 4050 hp. from that 4 people gain 3240 mana each at a cost of 4050 hp each.
I've seen Water form in this discussion - you do realize it can't be used on horseback, right? So, anywhere you can use a horse you're not using WF3.
Also remember that XPG doesn't stack with 9
So, over 45 minutes
BL:
rods (3240) + SD (4050) + 9 (3600) + Paragon (1440) + KEI (6300) + FT1 (450) + Base (1050) - SD cost (425) = 19,705 mana to use.
Mage:
rods (3240) + SD (4050) + 9 (3600) + Paragon (1440) + KEI (6300) + FT9 (4050) + Base (1050) + mount (9000) - Rod cost (4800) = 26,634
So, the mage has a 35% mana advantage with far better aa's and equipment and being mounted.
However, the BL is doing 45-50DPS on HoH mobs (according to eqwatcher) from melee alone. Mage Malosinis, BL slows both nuke, BL is limited by nuke refresh and mage is limited by aggro with his efficient nukes and mana with rains.
The net result is that (according to EQW) my BL does 80% of the total damage of my mage per mob, a bit less if the mage is using SoM with a good tank (who doesn't move it off the back).
Quote
The DS you can put on your pet should be factored into your pets overall DPS somehow.
And what about pet toys? Duel wielding proc'ing swords (what is it 150 cold DD ?) The stat belt and haste mask...
Pet toys are 10pp a shot in the bazaar - therefore just as available to either class. And the proccing weapons only add a few DPS - they just don't go off enough. In fact, they go off more in the hands of a BL warder (with the huge dex increase from Spirit of Rellic and IoS) than on a mage pet (with a measly 15 dex boost from the girdle, which is available to BL's too.).
And I let the Druid DS - it's not a cost effective form of DPS against 65% slowed mobs.
Quote
I won't sit here and say Mages don't need some tweaking, but come with factual stuff, not generalizations and underestimations of a Mage's power.
**If you want to be taken seriously...
From my perspective BL's are in really good shape, and mages need a boost to their pets *FROM GEAR* not innately. The element specific focuses should have different effects - the water one should make SoM a better DPS producer, but not a better tank, the air one should make WoX a better tank, but not DPS producer. Make the tradeoff from WoX to SoM even more pronounced - one can sort of protect you when things go bad, the other is a pure DPS machine.
QuoteRemember first off that mage pets (with the exception of epic and the new MSIV) cast their spells, they don't proc them
I never really understood this so maybe you can help me out, what do you mean by your pet casts? its innate elemental attack is a 0 sec cast time spell? so is the proc that i buff my warder with. I don't understand the difference really?
Well I spent the weekend playing both my mage and my beastlord and here are a couple of the things I have decided. Again, this in not a BST are better than mages or a Mages are better than beastlords post.
Everyone that says Mages have good DPS are absolutely right. We are very good DPS. Our nukes are good, a bit better than druids, but not a huge amount, the pet though adds alot though. If I can use my bolt, I can outdamage the druid by about 20%, but that is situational, otherwise, damage is similar. I do use the Bolt when I can, I am an evoc mage, not a conj mage so it just makes sense.
For a comparison of pre GoD spells look at these two.
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=3452&source=Live
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=3318&source=Live (our 2k nuke)
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=3325&source=Live
Post GoD
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=4974&source=Live
I haven't seen any new GoD nuke for my mage yet, but I assume it has a simmilar increase to the druid one.
Mages do not really need a damage output upgrade. We are good, not the best, but very good.
Yes mages can heal their pets. A good way to get an idea of the difference between BST pet heals and Mage pet heals is to think of the BST one as a cleric heal (without CH) and the Mage one as a druid heal (again without CH). That will give you an idea of the reletive difference. At higher levels, both are pretty good.
Mana Regen, BST beats the Mage here without any real contest. Mages use a huge amount of mana (on par with wizards) while fighting and have pretty poor mana regen rates. BST on the other hand has a similar mana regen rate, but (at least in my style of play) does not rely on it to quite the extent of the mage. An example of this difference is with my Mage if I don't have KEI, it isn't worth continuing to hunt, with my BST I can continue being effective without the mana regen from KEI. This really stands out since the pet canni went away, and is a sore spot with alot of mages now.
The real problem (in my opinon) with mages right now is in damage avoidance. As a mage the only way to avoid dying if I get agro, even to green mobs, is to Gate, or channel through and Nuke it. The AC and HP of a mage make both of these very difficult. If outdoors, I might have room to kite the mob a bit, but without sow that is also a very risky proposition. Jboots and run3 do help alot here. Amost all of a mages defensive power is in his pet. They are the ultimite example of the best defense is a good offense. A mages best startegy if they get agro is Kill it FAST.
This is very different form the other casting classes such as wizard or enchanter, and also very different from the other pet classes such as BST or Necro.
Both Classes are great and both have advantages and disadvantages. They are very very different in the way they are played, and really shouldn't be compared at all except that both have very powerful pets (The most powerful in the game). If this kind of thread continues, lets get away from talking about Mage power vs. BST power and maybe discuss Mage vs. BST damage avoidance. Maybe we can use some of the ways mages avoid damage to the benefit of the BST class. I know I use alot of the same techniques when I see my BST health dropping faster than I would like.
Quote from: XuthazQuoteRemember first off that mage pets (with the exception of epic and the new MSIV) cast their spells, they don't proc them
I never really understood this so maybe you can help me out, what do you mean by your pet casts? its innate elemental attack is a 0 sec cast time spell? so is the proc that i buff my warder with. I don't understand the difference really?
It means they aren't procs - pets stop meleeing, or moving to cast it.
Just curious, our pet procs generate enough hate that bst can get out of battle anytime they want short of low health agro. Our pets generate so much hate I can slow/debuff a mob and sit down within one or two procs without agro. Would more hate added to mage pets allow you to burn mobs down faster? This would avoid the fears people have of turning pets into xp group tanks due to better mitigation.
Quote from: ZorithiQuote from: TerjynPovarIf you admit you are a Necro as opposed to a Magician or Beastlord, then just stop.
I'm not entering this debate because I don't have a high level character of either class. But I have to laugh out loud every time someone throws out this kind of assinine argument.
Is it because some people just refuse to believe that this is a game with players of characters? And that those players might have expertise in more than one narrow niche in the game?
If their expertise is in question then point out the errors and offer rebuttal. But don't stoop to the totally imbecilic statement of accusing someone of "not being" a class or of "being" some other class and therefore somehow unqualified due to that fact alone. That is such a cop out. There isn't a single Beastlord posting on this forum. We are all players of Everquest who happen to be interested in the class of Beastlord.
This game has some technical aspects to it but it truly isn't rocket science. I'm sure some of you are walking encyclopedia of the Beastlord class, but I would wager that makes you just as unqualified at comparing the class with another as someone who primarily plays another class comparing their's with a Beastlord. Or just as qualified if you are an optimist type.
Debate the facts and issue at hand, not the choice of main character.
Thanks for snipping that quote and taking it out of context. If you'd read this board in the past you'd know that I'm one of the biggest proponents of "you don't have to play a class in order to comment on them".
My point of that paragraph wasn't that he wasn't a Magi or BST, it was that he's posted a bunch of *wrong* things not being either a Magi or Beast. But thanks for the lecture in something I've said almost exactly word for word several times in the past.
Note, also, that I have yet to do a single real comparison in this entire thread other than "Magicians out-DPS beastlords". That's it, and that's fact. Everything else I've said has been fact (except perhaps the Druid nuke thing. I admit I don't know the reality, on paper, using pure numbers, Magicians come out ahead.)
Quote from: MasklinnOh yeah and i'm posting as a necro because it enables me to be more neutral than when i'm comparing necro Vs BLs or necro Vs mages (mind you i have to do researches on both these classes as the 3rd pet class)
But you aren't posting Neutral, you are posting such that in all cases the Magi is downplayed and the Beastlord is upgraded.
QuoteQuoteUnless you are kiting somebody is getting hit, so the Damage Shield counts, even if it's not on the pet.
good, now what if you read the quote i answered to?
QuoteThe DS you can put on your pet should be factored into your pets overall DPS somehow.
DS != pet DPS
So freaking what? All I was saying is that the damage shield counts even if your pet isn't getting beat on. So freaking what if DS != pet DPS, it still = Magician DPS. Tough concept no?
QuoteQuoteWhile BST pets can tank in PoP, it's not efficient. Why are Magi and their supporters so hung up on not being able to do something so inefficient that BSTs don't want to do it anyway?
Sorry, re-read my post, never talked about that myself
Quotesince mages can't slow mobs they won't make their pets tank past Luclin days (or maybe PoD/PoN for a lvl 65 mage...)
You are right, you didn't mention Magician pets tanking at all. (Oh wait, sorry, you did).
Quote1- a mage has to get out of his XP session to get his buffs refresh
2- a beastie can bring 2 or 3 sets or mage toys, give them to pet if it ever dies and never needs to "refresh" the toys
And if the Beastlord has to zone 2-3 times he's completely out of pet toys, where the Magician still has KEI for the next 3 hours. There are advantages and disadvantages to both.
Where can I find the original post regarding the pet mitigation upgrade that started this thread?
It disappeared during the thread split :?
Its on the necro boards, here http://necro.eqclasses.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=25932
3rd post down.
Basically end game magician pets (Rathe) will have:
5% base + 18% focus = 23% mitigation, 10% avoidance, and 10% more hp.
end game warders will have:
5% base + 15% focus = 20% mitigation
The post doesn't mention anything about a new easier quested focus item for beastlords so it looks like the difference in low tier mages pets and low tier bst pets will grow larger. as in the low game, Mage Earth pet will be 5% + 16% focus = 21% mitigation where bst warders will be 5% + 7% = 12% mitigation. I say low game but really have no idea if that's true, It really depends on how easy the new focus items will be for magicians to acquire.
Quote from: XuthazIts on the necro boards, here http://necro.eqclasses.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=25932
3rd post down.
Basically end game magician pets (Rathe) will have:
5% base + 18% focus = 23% mitigation, 10% avoidance, and 10% more hp.
end game warders will have:
5% base + 15% focus = 20% mitigation
The post doesn't mention anything about a new easier quested focus item for beastlords so it looks like the difference in low tier mages pets and low tier bst pets will grow larger. as in the low game, Mage Earth pet will be 5% + 16% focus = 21% mitigation where bst warders will be 5% + 7% = 12% mitigation. I say low game but really have no idea if that's true, It really depends on how easy the new focus items will be for magicians to acquire.
Time grade foci (even if for a single pet type)? I can't imagine they'll be easy by any means.
I'd say that comparing DPoC mage pets to DPoC BL pets (15% to 12%) is more appropriate at the low game. With our ability to slow and heal better than a mage that difference is inconsequential.
The nicest change is RS going from -5 to +5 percent - a Rune based warrior type pet should have had better mitigation than a Ethereal based rogue type pet, or an Ethereal warrior pet.
With this change I may actually get RS now.
The people who benefit the most from this are groups that use pets as tanks and have a BL and a Mage - since they get the slowed mob and better mitigation.
Hey, wait, that's any time I duo :)
Well its the LDON raid level focus, higher than Time grade, that is being made an Augment for each seperate pet for mages and necros but not beastlords. It'll probably be a hard drop hopefully, but easier to acquire than the LDON raid. It appears that beastlords will still have to convince their guilds to do the LDON raids to get this lvl of focus.
Oh and I still do not see a difference between these:
QuoteIt means they aren't procs - pets stop meleeing, or moving to cast it
It's a 0 second casting time spell. Spirt of Rellic is a buff that adds a 0 second cast time spell to my pet. Both pets stop for 0 seconds in order to cast their spells. I don't see the difference? I've seen both Earth pets and my warder "proc/cast" back to back, and therefore neither loses melee attacks (as in, gets their melee timer reset) for casting their spells. so what is the difference? I Still don't understand how this is an issue?
I'm glad there are mages, means I can get all the cool toys they summon for my pet :D
If a mage pet can out mitigate a warder... so what? We slow which usually mitigates 65% of the damage, our pets have more hitpoints, we heal them for nearly 2x as much as a mage can, and our pet heals reset far faster.
Upper lvl mages will out DpS us all the time (upper lvl 65 w/100+ AA's).
Mages are designed to take mobs down fast, I'd say at least twice as fast if not faster than a beastlord could. Our balance is that we can slow the mob reducing it's damage output by 65%, our pets also stun, and bash both interupting spells and reducing MoB damage output farther. Beastlords don't need to meditate as much we tend to melee more and pull at a steady pace.
I have never had a Necro or a Mage pet out aggro my warder, even the rogue necro pet with the uber backstab. Never, ever, ever.
I think most people focus too much on DpS, and miss the point that beastlords w/pets also greatly reduce the amount of damage (even with a shammy slowing) for MoB's that are stunable.
I've dueled both Necro, and Mage pets. For the most part I think our warders come out slightly ahead.
Quote from: ToilerI have never had a Necro or a Mage pet out aggro my warder, even the rogue necro pet with the uber backstab. Never, ever, ever.
I think most people focus too much on DpS, and miss the point that beastlords w/pets also greatly reduce the amount of damage (even with a shammy slowing) for MoB's that are stunable.
I've dueled both Necro, and Mage pets. For the most part I think our warders come out slightly ahead.
When I duo my mage and BL I use WoX and Sorsha -
The warder consistently out aggros the Air pet (despite stuns) - I'm trying to get them to share it a little better, thus reducing the need to heal.
WoX will pull aggro from the 64 warder, but it won't take it for 50% of a fight - not by a long shot.
WoX's stun has been parsed at a 20% reduction in swings per second -
so a mob that is slowed 65% will have a net swings per second of 28% of its normal rate with a WoX pet in the mix.
I haven't seen parses for Spirit of Rellic on a 64 warder with IoS and Girdle of Magi'kot, in terms of the percentage of attacks they prevent through stuns.
Casual observations says that my kitty is a bit better tank than Spike (my air pet).
The pair of them, in full summoned gear and with full BL buffs (including SV on the air pet due to pet affinity) are amazingly effective at taking down mobs with nary a heal.
To the orginal poster.
You realize your class was never meant to have the best pet right? The devs who made you class took great pains to point out you would never have the best best in the game and in fact would be on par with or slightly less powerful than that of the most powerful necro pet.
You realize this right? Because if not you sound like just another PoP n00b that wants everything in the game and make the elders of your class cringe and have nightmares. Oh and everytime you post it kills a kitten please think of the poor kittens.
And remeber what power boost you got your pets with the pet patch are mostly in part because the mages whined, moaned, and argued with each other till we all got so mad some of the guys who still give a dam parleyed with SoE, gave them hard data, tested said data for a few months, and then after helping out multiple classes in game as a side effect get shitted on by people like the original poster.
Now do you like the fact your pet now has more teeth than it did? Maybe you don't but I bet the real beastlords that play do.
So in closing to the great Beastlords keep on rocking to the wannabe give me everything cause I'm the pet class Druid like delete or something.
Mulk
This thread makes baby Jesus cry. Please stop the insanity!
QuoteYou realize your class was never meant to have the best pet right? The devs who made you class took great pains to point out you would never have the best best in the game and in fact would be on par with or slightly less powerful than that of the most powerful necro pet.
no they didn't. show me a single post from a developer stating such. I've asked on the magician's tower, no post exists. Nothing has ever been said about the relative power of pets between necros, magicians, and beastlords at any time since the inception of the beastlord class. I don't actually give a damn who has the "best" pet in this e-penis contest that magicians like yourself refuse to let go of. I am however sick and tired of the every other BS post about "omg magicians are the masters of summons! we are supposed to have the best pets! nerf bst!" shit that you spew every other post of you and yours. By class design there is no such thing as "the best pet class," its a relic of the original EQ vision that no longer exists. What you have now are 3 seperate classes that each use a summoned pet for different roles and purposes in their daily activities. The variance between the pets was inconsequential between beastlord pet and the various magician pets. There was no reasons in regards to class design for either pet to be "more powerful" than the other. it was decided that magicians as a whole were underpowered and they received an upgrade via pet focuses. It was decided that beastlords and necromancers as a class were fine and did not warrant the same pet upgrade, so the focuses were made to not upgrade their pets in the same manner that they upgraded magician pets. The very first post from an asshat like you was "HAHA we have the best pet now!" even tho the change did nothing to bring your class into balance at the high end, but it lets the whiners leet solo in droga with less downtime. Congratulations, you "win the best pet award!~," moron.
This thread sucks, lets riot
http://www.richardsimmons.com/homepage.asp
QuoteWhen I duo my mage and BL I use WoX and Sorsha -
The warder consistently out aggros the Air pet (despite stuns) - I'm trying to get them to share it a little better, thus reducing the need to heal.
I think with 2 pets the fact warders are longer/closer makes a difference. I know it does if the mob is rooted, but I read here that it always makes a difference when 2 pets duo a mob.
Just a thought...
http://forums.crgaming.com/eqbb/viewtopic.php?t=63841
http://forums.crgaming.com/eqbb/viewtopic.php?t=63922
One of the very many examples of life pre luclin way back in 2000-2001. Just because no one is willing to dig through the hundreds of thousands of pages worth of info doesn't mean it wasn't said.
Heck I guess I could just go to new SoE class boards and ask but I can think of something else to throw at you.
Remeber you originally had to buff your pet up to the proper level? And your PoP pets are lvl 58 (or were) and mage pets were lvl 60. ANd btw what was the lvl or the pre pop warders?
Sorry man you spouting your thoughts on how you want it to be and not the fact. Heck go to the new class boards and ask SoE.
And another thing. Do honestly think SOE is gonna ever give a more powerful warder than a mage pet and still let you have things like 65% slow? I'd quit worrying about mages we are happy as things are now we got our power back and in no way step on any toes of any original EQ class.
We were here first not you and the Shamans are the ones to pick a bone with you not mages.
We were here first? Beastlords aren't an original class so don't matter?
Can we get a mod to stop this troll from posting to the Beastlord forum? It's obvious he'll never have anything constructive to say.
rofl
both of your linked posts were by players speculating on what beastlords would be like since no one knew at the time. not a single word from a developer about the power of pets, just speculation. they even mention that not only were beastlord's slated to get pet Complete Heal, but we would also be the most pet dependant class and therefore by pure default would have powerful pets. Nice try tho dipshit.
Our pop pets were lvl 60 the same as yours before the focus changes, but its good to see you have no information to base your BS trolling on. Prepop warders were on par with Necro and magician pets as far as level goes. They "conned" 47th or 49th i forget which.
QuoteAnd another thing. Do honestly think SOE is gonna ever give a more powerful warder than a mage pet and still let you have things like 65% slow? I'd quit worrying about mages we are happy as things are now we got our power back and in no way step on any toes of any original EQ class.
We were here first not you and the Shamans are the ones to pick a bone with you not mages.
How old are you? 11? How does this pass as a valid argument? Damn i guess you win, I just got Trolled. Ban this tool please.
Is this horse dead yet?
We were here first - best arguement ever! LOL NYah nyah nyah nyah, we were here first.
How about, beastlord races are bigger and tougher than mage races, so we should be stronger nyah nyah nyah nyah puny elf
Haha thanks for livening up my Friday :*)
Frankly I don't care if, against an unslowed mob, mage pets out-tank beastlord pets. I myself outtank my pet, so it doesn't matter as much. We have slow to counter that. Frankly I would love for them to make it either everyone can solo, or no one can. Would kill a hell of a lot of arguments.
Everyone can solo, both for XP and loot. Some cannot solo when and how they want to solo(IE, some people aren't happy unless they can tank-solo in Kod'Taz, or so it seems).