My 1st NOTABLE "CONCERN"

[Skanda]

but to a casual gamer, 65 or 70 is a huge accomplishment.  What you can do in 6 months with a toon, is something a casual gamer hopes to do in three or five years.

I know a ton of casual gamers that have gone from 1-65 in 3-4 months. Taking 2+ years to get to 65 is horrible now. You made 65 in 5 years so start looking for open raids on flag targets. You'll get in there eventually.

Why should I have my accomplishments devalued because you don't want to go through the same thing? Even causal raiding guilds can get to the elementals now. There is no reason to just give you access so that Sol Ro or elementals can become the next BoT.

[Cyphen Wilder]

Earning levels is still by far the best way to learn how to play a character.

That used to be the case but now its no longer true. There are level 65s that have no idea on even some of the basics of the game let alone knowing how to play their character well. Its so easy to level up its not funny.

That is not an excuse to deny content access, that is a reason to make getting levels harder.  I know how to play my toons throught the time I have spent playing them.  So, tell me why I shouldn't get the same access that your overnight 65's get?  And dont say because I didnt do the timesink.  5yrs of casual gaming to get to 65 is alot more time of 6 months of powergaming to get to same goal.

[Cyphen Wilder]

I know a ton of casual gamers that have gone from 1-65 in 3-4 months. Taking 2+ years to get to 65 is horrible now. You made 65 in 5 years so start looking for open raids on flag targets. You'll get in there eventually.

Why should I have my accomplishments devalued because you don't want to go through the same thing? Even causal raiding guilds can get to the elementals now. There is no reason to just give you access so that Sol Ro or elementals can become the next BoT.

First of all, casual gamers getting from 1-65 are not casual gamers.  As for devaluing your accomplishments; your saying that like the original poster, I need to sacrifice RL to play this game?  Is that what is gonna make you feel better seeing me in So Ro or elementals?  Knowing that I had to stay up all night?  That I had to go to work a mess?  That maybe my marriage had to suffer?  Is that the crux of your arguement, that I didn't sacrifice enough RL for the game?  Yet, if you did the math, I have spent more hours playing this game then the 3-4 month powergamers.  I have spent more time online hunting old zones for loot or for good times or for friendships then the 3-4 month powergamers rushing for xp hot spots or xp camps.  Yet you have no problem with them?  The ones that rushed through, and probably can't play their class anywhere as good as I can.  Hmm, but I see your next arguement saying that I can get there with open raiding.  That even the casual raiding guild can get into Elementals now.  But then you add, why should I just get access so Sol RO or elementals can become the next BoT.  So which is it?  You admit that there is gonna be a huge influx of casual players into those zones due to open raids and casual raiding guilds.  But me, who knows his toons can't have access because it is gonna make Sol Ro or elementals like BoT(rains)?  The open raids or casual raiding guild may just be zerging bosses to get flags and a huge influx of don't know crap players may be let in to those zones.  

I guess I don't see where you draw the line as to who should be let in and who should not be let in.  It seems to me, that your stance is only let those that have suffered to be let in.  What about those that have been loyal gamers?  [/quote][/code]

[Skanda]

That is not an excuse to deny content access, that is a reason to make getting levels harder.  I know how to play my toons throught the time I have spent playing them.  So, tell me why I shouldn't get the same access that your overnight 65's get?  And dont say because I didnt do the timesink.  5yrs of casual gaming to get to 65 is alot more time of 6 months of powergaming to get to same goal.

You know, until the beginning of this year I was a causal player too. Yet I know I didn't deserve everything that the uber's got without putting in the work for it. This isn't anything new, in Kunark you had Howling Stones, VP, and Seb. In Velious there was ST. In PoP there is only 6 zones you can't access through levels or easy quests (Time, 4 elementals and Sol Ro). You already have access to the majority of the PoP expansion, why should you get more?

They already threw you a bone with the 1400 point LDoN armor which is between Ornate and elemental in quality. There's rumors around now that they're going to add an even higher level. So why, with access to LDoN, do you think you deserve access to zones that people have worked for months to get into? You think "the ubers" whould be happy with a bone if they did? Like that AA they gave out when they opened up the majority of PoP to casual players? Yeah, I'll happily trade in 4 months of hard work for 2-3 AA's that I could get in a day.

This is harsh but you don't deserve access to Sol Ro or elementals just because you "pay the same". I pay the same for cable TV too but maybe you get more from it because you watch it more. We pay the same for a trip to Disney Land but maybe you get on more rides because you stay later. Why is this any different? You don't go buy Warcraft 3 or Halflife and expect them to give you all the units/weapons just because you don't want to spend to time playing the game like opther people do... how is EQ any different?

[Skanda]

The open raids or casual raiding guild may just be zerging bosses to get flags and a huge influx of don't know crap players may be let in to those zones.  

Because they actually worked for it and you didn't PoP mobs are zurgable only to an extent. There's still some stratigy that need to be used in order to win.

I play a whopping 3-4 hours a night (unless VT is up). That's not all that much. Just play 3-4 hours a night once a week and find some open raids.

[Skanda]

What about those that have been loyal gamers?  

[/code][/quote]

Loyality has nothing to do with anything. Do I expect discounts from my ISP because I have been with them for 3 years? Why should you be rewarded because you play the game less than other people? Sure you've been here longer but you're not playing much so who can say if you have more /play time then they do.

[Dummkopf]

I understand your frustraion in a way Cyphen, but EQ was build around working for accomplishment from the very beginning. There were always zones that were either too hard for casual gamers or just not accessable because you needed a certain key. Changing that later will devaluate the accomplishment of reaching it, in fact it gets evaluated by new expansions anyway just because of the mudflation that comes with it. Especially LoY and LDoN but GoD too added so much powerfull stuff for casual gamers that it is indeed very easy to reach time now with only 2-3 days raiding a week. With OoW it will be even easier and lvl 70 in itself gimps all previous content. Opening up elementals or even time is something i never want to see, even opening pov/pos/bot/cod was one of the biggest mistakes SoE ever did (except releasing GoD the way it was released) since there were always easy one group-flagging quests. I dont want to see another mistake like that again.

For reaching lvl 65 fast as casual gamer, yes it is very easy now, even was very easy over a year ago. I was a casual gamer back then, played between 0 and 3 hours a day and reached 65 within a few months untwinked and un-pled. If you cant do that you really have to learn more about the class your playing, or you just use everquest as a chat tool with nice graphics. And if you play for 5 years you certainly know how much better the gear is that you can aquire today.

[Shambler]

even opening pov/pos/bot/cod was one of the biggest mistakes SoE ever did

I disagree :) exp from 62-65 sucked ass in PoD :). Especialy for those poor Shaman who couldn't find a group of 65's to push his low DPS ass through.

Though, opening PoV and PoS would have been enough to that end.

I'm aginst any others being opened.. and I am not flaged for them.. but there are other problems... called gimme my freaking spells (I got for sham and beast.. but OMG the farming and paying through the nose to some Uber Guilded farmer...)
/OT/
I personaly think the rarity of runes pre elemental is a catastrophy... just because we are not uber guilded (you can't make that much farming the old content..) trying to pay 50k + per spell.. or gettting lucky enough that some uber guild farmer will MQ for us at a decent rate is rediculous.

Rarety of caster spells in GOD also sucks....

I want to smack whoever decided spells should be so hard to get... because casters have to/need to get Spells AND Gear to keep up with their melle counterparts.... twit Developers

I don't think I should have to farm UP for 5 months to get a character their lvl 65 spells... it's crazy
/OT/

[rhorse]

I hoping that they don't open up the ele. The name of the game is Everquest, not Givemeeverthing. I have to work to get to these zones by doing quest. Even a causal player can find raids working on the flags to these zones. Join one, take the chance, and enjoy doing the Quests of EverQuest.

[Tardar]

So here is the big question for those non Ele folks begging for hand outs:  What do you think is gonna happen if you get to zone into Elemental zones?  If your guild can't do the raids to get Ele. then they surely can't do any of the raid events there.  If you send a tell to Random Pally #1 asking for a tank in your PoE group, good luck, but don't be surprised when your group is dead.  All the stupid crap that goes in BoT will only be magnified in a elemental zone.  

Tactics is open to anyone willing to work a little bit, and doesn't require a guild to do.  

Asking for the Elemental Planes to be opend to everyone now is the same as scoring the go ahead touchdown with 2 min left in the game, and then finding out the other team only has to get to the 50 yard line to win.

[Latang]

This debate has happened on the main class board for every class in the game (cept maybe zerker). The people who spent every night for months figuring out all the encounters, enduring hours long CR's (more relevant to GoD than PoP i'll admit), desparately trying to form up faster than the other guys so they can claim the spawn and try their luck, then dying over and over and over again, finally winning and getting flagged for a different zone. Then other people see them in that new zone, and think "wow that'd be cool... hey I pay my thirteen bucks, why can't I go there?".

Sure, the content is old. VP (pre-revamp) was what, 4 years old? at least? and it still had a key requirement. Levels made that key easier to get, but you still had to go through the hours and hours of camping silly mobs to get it. VT is the same. Guys, the people who went through the hell of flagging will forever say to everyone else "We had to do it, what the hell makes you so special that you think you shouldn't have to do it?", while those who think they deserve it simply cause they bought the game whine that they wanna play there too.

It's hard for a reason, guys. Unlock ele's and you'll get a bunch of idiots thinking "yeah, we can kill that guardian of doofire! looks like diablo!" and blowing the fenin spawn for people that are trying to get to potime. Sure, it can happen now, but less likely since the people in there will understand the steps needed to get there and how stupid an idea it would be.

Unlocking BoT was bad enough. We all know what a hole that turned into. Letting the unwashed masses into ele planes and sol ro would be madness. To hell with what you think you deserve. Earn it.

[Chackra]

This debate has happened on the main class board for every class in the game (cept maybe zerker). The people who spent every night for months figuring out all the encounters, enduring hours long CR's (more relevant to GoD than PoP i'll admit), desparately trying to form up faster than the other guys so they can claim the spawn and try their luck, then dying over and over and over again, finally winning and getting flagged for a different zone.

If you didn't have fun doing that, you shouldn't have done it.

[Rhaynne]

If you didn't have fun doing that, you shouldn't have done it.

What does that have to do with anything?  You didn't address a single point he made.

[Gourgeous George]

Since posting my original feeler, I did a little research. I have found much of the responses favour keeping them closed, not to say that this is representative of the whole community by any means.

However I did grab a snip from the original release information for PoP which can be found on the official website:

What is EverQuest: The Planes of Power?
This expansion will focus mainly on providing content to the highest levels of the game, allowing players to become even more powerful.

I noticed that even the official Questions and Answers forum prior to release did state the PoP would be available to all over level 46, however, emphasis was placed on this focusing mainly on providing content to the highest levels of the game.

In contrast, LDoN offers:
These new adventures offer many benefits, including a clearly defined goal, the ability to play and make progress in a couple hours per adventure, and the confidence that you can set a time to meet your friends and have a dungeon fully available for you right away - no competition and no waiting!


The emphasis is on allowing you to make progress in a matter of a few hours, suggesting that this is ideal for casual players and not focused on raiders.

It further states:

Experience a new dynamic dungeon system emphasizing personalized encounters reserved for your group of 4-6 players.

Again I checked the official boards for LoY and I quote:

New Zones (targeted generally for character levels 35-60)

And lastly GoD and I quote:

The new combat zones are for characters level 50 and over.


The reason I quote all this jargon is that even if you purchased PoP for one reason or another, it did say on the official boards what to expect from all of the expansions. PoP was for the high end players with some but less benefit to the casual or for want of a better phrase "weaker geared players/guilds".

Personally I bought all of the expansions for different reasons though they are of limited use to me.

I don't think I have ever spent more than 2 hours in LoY and that was just to get the spells and the Lizard mount. Not to say I didn't gain through the additional gaming features as well.

LDoN I bought for the augs, and because I don't like xp grinding in PoP.

GoD I bought just for the hell of it and I don't spend any time there. Maybe 15 hours total since it was released.

I have seen my guild grow up over the last 3 to 4 years and we have gone from struggling against Kunark Dragons to recently downing Fennin Ro. We have covered all expansions in the order of release (exc LoY) and are yet to really conquer LDoN raids or the highest points of PoP. I was VERY proud to be there at some ridiculous time in the AM for our guild photo after a long battle with Fennin Ro, wearing my Fiery shield alongside my comrades with a cheeky grin on my face and rez effects still flashing. It only took a few deaths each but it was worth it!!!

Directed to Cyphen, if you have spent 5 years playing EQ as have I, you will no doubt have seen a lot of the game. Therefore as a person who understands the game and reads the boards and eagerly awaits the expansions. My question would be, Did you not read these sections on the official boards? If you did, you will know as I did that it would take years and lots of effort to ever see such places as it has ALWAYS been. Many expansions were made for different reasons/levels/styles of play.

PoP was never released for the casual gamer to see ALL of the expansion, it was there in the official dialogue. Short of slapping you in the face with a wet kipper, how else were they supposed to warn you, if you don't play the high end raid game don't expect to see these places. I am well proud of my achievement, because I have been there through thick and thin with my guildmates for years to get where I am.

And yes we do backflag, pain in the butt as it is, because our new recruits join us with worse gear than Velious quest armour. We help them, nurture them, make them a part of the family and hope they will stay. All of which takes a lot of time. Many people I have had the fortune to call good friends in game have moved on and we are still in contact at Christmas and stuff even though they don't play EQ anymore. They helped me get here, but they won't see what I get to see.

We have casual players too and we log them on and flag them on their behalf to keep them up with the times so they don't feel left out and sometimes they log on with new gear they didn't know they had - something I think is a great personal touch.

So to end a long long, sorry to bore you all post. READ the notes, the boards, the manuals. READ every bit of literature you can find before buying the product so you know what to expect and don't feel quite so let down when you can't have what you see others wielding.

People want too much too soon, try to apply a little patience and if you want something bad enough find ways to help yourself get there. Oh and as previously noted, there ARE alternate quests for a few zones like PoTactics.

[Oneiromancer]

I don't care any more about the flag-required zones.  Raids are not fun to me with very few exceptions.  Every time I see some guildmate link some "uber" drop from Time or GoD and say something like "I'd give my left nut for that" I /sigh.  The only interest I really have in raids is actually seeing the big mobs in action.  I don't want to spend 4 hours so that 3 people (or whatever) can get some loot though.  So, I don't.

Until "casuals" get over the loot envy you'll still see arguments like this one.  After I finished my shawl quest and the link got passed around, several of my guildmates started on the quest themselves, getting their tradeskills up or farming drops.  I wish there were more quests like that...but I guess it's easier to make a big boss mob, add a few AEs to it, and put some loot on it.  I really feel like I earned the shawl.  Tagging along with dozens of other people enough times to have a chance to bid on an item...bleh...I always hated just being a face in the crowd, a cog in the machine.  Let them have it, I'm happy being responsible for my own successes or failures.  (And I'm not saying that I only solo.  I enjoy grouping--although not in BoT anymore really--since I know that I do make a difference and fulfill a role.)

I'm just hoping that SOE learned something and do OoW right.  If by saying "45 and up" they really mean it...that the zones will be distributed in an intelligent way so that those levels will have alternates from PoP zones...I definitely won't care about more PoP zones being opened up.

Game on,