New 17th Xpack AA's And SPELLS( ALL READY STARTED SoE realsed info)

[Camikazi]

What about an upgraded version of Empathic Fury, that lasts 45 seconds...AND boost all pets too...including Yowl pets summoned during that disc is active.

That might be difficult since spells tend to work when cast and unless gets pulsed every tick it won't hit anything after it is cast, and even if pulsed, if you don't cast pets at right time you will lose time on the Yowl pets. One way could be adding a pet focus type component that will make the Yowl pets we cast much stronger (make it basically add the same dmg mods disc adds for us to Yowl pets) while it is up. I am not sure devs are willing to make even more templates for pets though, but if possible it would make Yowl pets stronger while disc is up (and make Forceful Rejuv more useful) giving us a bigger boost while burning.

[Sharrien]

It might work better as an aura that affects pets, similar to the mage spells.  I don't think any beneficial spells cast will land on our short duration pets.  The mage aura does however affect all pets in range.  If we really do want to pursue a pet-buffing aura to go with Empathic Fury, we need to make sure it does not conflict with Arcane Distillect or Rathe's Strength.  The problems with the mage spells are that the bonus is not much more than Mammoth's Strength and that the later version is centered on the caster, which is often pointless for mages, but we don't have to worry about that.

If this is something we want to ask for, I would suggest staying away from the All Skills Dmg Modifier that the mage spells provide, it would conflict and probably not give that much of a bonus.  Instead, ask for a super overhaste or +50% flurry chance above whatever the chance is from AAs.  Or a bonus chance for crits.  Since it is a short duration burn disc, it shouldn't be that crazy to ask for really significant bonuses.

[Grbage]

I would stay away from a % based increase to any skill on us or pet and isntead ask for a flat rate increase. Flat increases leave room for improvement down the road. Percentage based increases lead to no improvement, stagnation then nerfing to a flate rate (ie slay undead, etc) because of how the skill is inflated outside of what devs originally wanted it to do.

[Camikazi]

It might work better as an aura that affects pets, similar to the mage spells.  I don't think any beneficial spells cast will land on our short duration pets.  The mage aura does however affect all pets in range.  If we really do want to pursue a pet-buffing aura to go with Empathic Fury, we need to make sure it does not conflict with Arcane Distillect or Rathe's Strength.  The problems with the mage spells are that the bonus is not much more than Mammoth's Strength and that the later version is centered on the caster, which is often pointless for mages, but we don't have to worry about that.

All spells can affect short duration pets, you can have a Bard overhaste them, or cast Gallantry on them, but their duration is so short it doesn't help much, which is why auras and Bard types pulses wouldn't work well, most have some kind of refresh time which means it could be time when the pets don't have the effect on them. A pet focus that only works on them will always work since they are focused when cast and don't have to wait on a spell refresh.

[Camikazi]

I would stay away from a % based increase to any skill on us or pet and isntead ask for a flat rate increase. Flat increases leave room for improvement down the road. Percentage based increases lead to no improvement, stagnation then nerfing to a flate rate (ie slay undead, etc) because of how the skill is inflated outside of what devs originally wanted it to do.

I was replying to an upgrade to Empathic Fury, EF is our main Burst DPS disc, it has to be a big % dmg increase ability since a flat increase ability upgrade for it would be good for grouper and only ok to not that great for raiders and would hold us back more. There is a reason most all main DPS discs are % based and it's to make them last, adding a flat increase to them doesn't exactly help the burst DPS of the higher up BSTs much (since they tune abilities to group level not raid level).

[Zunar]

Another maybe easy fix would be to add a twincast buff onto Empathic fury.

[Camikazi]

Another maybe easy fix would be to add a twincast buff onto Empathic fury.

Considering how long our disc lasts, I doubt that, but would be interesting to have though.

[Zunar]

Another maybe easy fix would be to add a twincast buff onto Empathic fury.

Considering how long our disc lasts, I doubt that, but would be interesting to have though.

In 30 seconds with twincast you can maybe get off bite twice and frozen venom 6 times, and our 2 ice nukes once each as well.
That all adds up to:
Bite of the Vitrik Rk. II
1:  Decrease Hitpoints by 4052 x 2= 8104
Frigid lance Rk. II
1:  Decrease Hitpoints by 1844 x 1
Jagged Torrent Rk. II
1:  Decrease Hitpoints by 1475 x 1
Frozen Venom Poison Rk. II
1:  Decrease Hitpoints by 2431 x 6= 14586
Frozen Venom Ice Rk. II
1:  Decrease Hitpoints by 1106 x 6= 6636
Total=32645
This is the base damage unfocused of what we can nuke in 30 seconds if we hit everything we got...lesser ice nukes won't have time to refresh for a second blast.
Twincasted that'd be twice more then, for a a boost of whopping 32645 damage in 30 seconds....maybe around 50% more from worn focus, and abit more depending on crit rate.

I don't know....but one caster nuke can beat this, or just one proc of the rogue poison will beat this too...we simply aren't that big nukers to make it matter that much, cuz we're lacking any huge nuke spells like casters have.

When I parsed my own dps from raids...the damage from my spells (which I chain cast constantly) is roughly 25% of my total dps using Tower weapons.....where Yowl/Haergen's pets are doing 35% of the total spell portion of the damage.

The pure melees have discs that affect 100% of their dps and casters have twincast which doubles 100% of their dps (nukes)...why we are left with a disc that only affects our melee dps, and hasn't seen an upgrade for 6 expansions is a mystery to me :P

My point beeing...it's not like twincast would have a huge impact on us as much as on the real casters anyways...so why not /shrug

[Hzath]

Another maybe easy fix would be to add a twincast buff onto Empathic fury.

Considering how long our disc lasts, I doubt that, but would be interesting to have though.

In 30 seconds with twincast you can maybe get off bite twice and frozen venom 6 times, and our 2 ice nukes once each as well.
That all adds up to:
Bite of the Vitrik Rk. II
1:  Decrease Hitpoints by 4052 x 2= 8104
Frigid lance Rk. II
1:  Decrease Hitpoints by 1844 x 1
Jagged Torrent Rk. II
1:  Decrease Hitpoints by 1475 x 1
Frozen Venom Poison Rk. II
1:  Decrease Hitpoints by 2431 x 6= 14586
Frozen Venom Ice Rk. II
1:  Decrease Hitpoints by 1106 x 6= 6636
Total=32645
This is the base damage unfocused of what we can nuke in 30 seconds if we hit everything we got...lesser ice nukes won't have time to refresh for a second blast.
Twincasted that'd be twice more then, for a a boost of whopping 32645 damage in 30 seconds....maybe around 50% more from worn focus, and abit more depending on crit rate.

I don't know....but one caster nuke can beat this, or just one proc of the rogue poison will beat this too...we simply aren't that big nukers to make it matter that much, cuz we're lacking any huge nuke spells like casters have.

When I parsed my own dps from raids...the damage from my spells (which I chain cast constantly) is roughly 25% of my total dps using Tower weapons.....where Yowl/Haergen's pets are doing 35% of the total spell portion of the damage.

The pure melees have discs that affect 100% of their dps and casters have twincast which doubles 100% of their dps (nukes)...why we are left with a disc that only affects our melee dps, and hasn't seen an upgrade for 6 expansions is a mystery to me :P

My point beeing...it's not like twincast would have a huge impact on us as much as on the real casters anyways...so why not /shrug

This is not at all what I thought you meant when you said add twincast to Empathic fury.  It doesn't really make sense adding it to a discipline, but it is an interesting idea.

[Zunar]

Well...adding it to fire with the disc is one less ability to clutter our overcrowded hotbar heh
It could simply share timer with the existing disc

[Camikazi]

My point beeing...it's not like twincast would have a huge impact on us as much as on the real casters anyways...so why not /shrug

They don't care what it adds to us compared to other classes, they view certain spells as being a certain length, they already changed Twincast long ago since AAs extended it and made sure it will only lasts 18 sec. Our disc lasts too long and unless they can make it last the same 18 sec or so without shortening EF they most likely won't do it, or they might just make an EF clone with Twincast and make it only last 18 sec :P

[Hzath]

Well EF already autocasts an identical buff (for ourselves, apparently warder is original target), I suppose an upgraded version could also autocast a self twincast.  I don't see it happening but that would certainly be an awesome upgraded to an older spell which directly hits on the problem of not being able to modify large portions of our damage types at burn time.

[Hzath]

I forgot to add my #1 to the list.  Remove the recast timer on Frozen Venom.  We can handle the agro output with our new toys so I feel this should happen.

[Camikazi]

I forgot to add my #1 to the list.  Remove the recast timer on Frozen Venom.  We can handle the agro output with our new toys so I feel this should happen.

They added the recast since they decided that without it we would do too much DPS with that spell, didn't have much to do with too much aggro.

[Hzath]

I forgot to add my #1 to the list.  Remove the recast timer on Frozen Venom.  We can handle the agro output with our new toys so I feel this should happen.

They added the recast since they decided that without it we would do too much DPS with that spell, didn't have much to do with too much aggro.

I think it was both.  I also think the mark was off on where we would be dps wise.  Removing the recast will affect our sustained dps almost none, we'll still be affected by the size of our mana pool and mana regeneration.  It will however give a solid boost to burst dps, where agro will be the limiting factor.

Getting blown away by rangers consistently on almost every fight gets old.