OK I'm missing something.....
Why would we use a pet proc for slows, other than to get way more slow casts?
I can just picture having someone ask me if a mob was slowed and having to say "I dunno ask the tiger" :-D
I certainly see the value in having more shots at a hard to slow mob, but I just can't see ever using this to replace Sha's Legacy. Where at least I know for sure right away on success or failure.
Steeltrap Jaws 70% slow, -60 vs magic, 24 disease counters and lasts 1 minute.
vs
Sha's Legacy 65% slow, -30 vs magic, 24 disease counters and lasts 1 1/2 minutes.
Sha's Revenge 65% slow, no resist mod, 16 disease counters and lasts 3 1/2 minutes
Sha's Legacy and Sha's Revenge are on different recast timers so I can load both and within a couple of casts one or the other has hit and I get a success message.
Why exactly would we want to use a minimally better pet proc where we can't say when the mob is slowed? :?
I mean if that's gonna be our very best slow at level 75, errrr thanks, I guess.
What am I missing?
i messed with it today.. You can set up a audio trigger for pet slow "Is bitten by steeltrap jaws" It procs lots.
It disapears from the pet's buff window when it lands.
It has its uses and is a fine addition to the line of utility spells we get...works great when solo'n or in grp...no reason to use on raids.
But the one thing that upsets me about it, is that it overwrites and blocks fetter of spirits...I spent alot of aa to max that and now if i use this new proc i cant use fetter and fetter is a snare, not a slow, so why is it being blocked? They need to fix that or refund us the aa's
At first I though I'd never use it but after messing with it a bit it's started to grow on me. Something like this allows us to slow two target at the same time if you're the group slower. It's also good in groups where you'd rather not pull agro form the main tank since you're not the one getting slow agro. I haven't been able to try it yet against highly reisitant mobs like the Lightning callers in MPG/Anguish but since it starts out at twice the resist mod as our best slow it's probably an easier way to go to get them slowed if you don't happen to have a debuffer around.
And as was mentioned above just set up an Audio trigger so you can tell when it landed. The real problem I have with the spell right now is you can't tell when it faded. If they could fix it so that we could see that then I would be quite happy with it.
QuoteI spent alot of aa to max that and now if i use this new proc i cant use fetter and fetter is a snare, not a slow, so why is it being blocked?
It doesn't stack because they don't want to give our pets unbalancing utility. This way we have to chose if we'd rather snare or slow mobs via the pet. This is also what a ton of us asked for in beta as originally it wasn't stacking with the damage proc line of pet spells. While I'm fairly sure that was a bug we were pretty much unanimous about how we'd rather it not stack with Fetter vs Oroshar type buffs. I'm not too suprised personally that they don't want it to stack. This gives us three different lines of procs we can put on the pet, or damage line, epic line and a third utility line. I wouldn't be suprised if in the future you see even more utility pet procs that won't stack with either Fetter or Steeltrap.
Single target group xp fights last under a minute. You get 4 casts for less mana with a greater modifier.
On multi-mob pulls you can now slow 2 simultanesously, warder offtank slow or MT assist slow while you run around slowing the others.
Heck if your a slow junkie you can load 3 slows and slow 3 mobs in 6 seconds.
On raids it *might* be useful against non-ramping mobs to pull with warder, to proc slow. Hope you got a good MT though. The warder will die against a lot of mobs but might be useful situations.
Would like to try this on Council of Nine when I get the spell. Yesterday we could not get a slow or debuff to land on the Avatar at all. Tried shammy, chanter, beast and necro, nothing. Got our asses kicked.
-60 is only rank 1 also... rank 2 is -80 and rank 3 is -100.
I got it last night finally.. and I really like it. My favorite part:
I slow a mob as it's inc with Sha's Legacy.
3 seconds later chanter overrides my slow.
3 seconds later my pet overrides their slow.
Muaha... revenge at last!
-----
My only problem with it, is it seems like it sometimes fades without actually proccing. Sometimes it'll go off like 4 times from a single cast.. sometimes 0 (0 as in I don't see the "Rarrum's Warder begins to cast a spell <Steeltrap Jaws Strke>"). I'm guessing there may be a bug where, since 2 procs can't go off on the same attack, if this happens to "proc" at the same time as epic or something, then we just lose this one. I need to go back through logs to get some chunks with concrete examples of this though.
QuoteSteeltrap Jaws 70% slow, ... Sha's Legacy 65% slow...Why exactly would we want to use a minimally better pet proc...
One point. MOB DPS after Sha's Legacy/Revenge is 35% (mitigated). MOB DPS after Steeltrap Jaws is 30% (mitigated). It depends on the amount of mitigation; still I think that nearly 20% less DPS from a MOB is better than minimal, especially given its resist mods as listed in Lucy. There are MOBs out there that I can cast slow at all day and never get it to land :). It's a situational tool, and a good one, IMO.
Sharrien Cant land a slow on avitar untill at least 94% or lower but usaly buy 90% I dont know if it works or just seems to work beter but Roar of Thunder then Slow at around 94% alwasy lands a slow. Then to be reslowed buy a shammy and they get all smug.. bleh
I've got mixed feelings about this spell. I'd prefer the damn thing just stayed on the warder for 10 min. Not being able to see when its faded is a pita too. Mainly, i'd forget to recast it when it procs so ...
As someone already mentioned here, Audio Triggers for the win. I use them to ding when slow lands (anyone's slow), blat when slow fades, buzz when Invis starts to wear out, etc. There is a lot of information to parse, especially when you are old and decrepit like me :-D, and audible reminders of vital events just makes things much simpler.
Audio triggers can actually help out a lot. A trigger can be set to notify you when slow lands. However, another possible option is to set the audio trigger for when steeltrap lands to a 1 minute long silence followed by sound. This way the audio trigger is actually going to notify when it fades, and not when it lands. Or perhaps even an audio file with a sound, 1 minute silence, then another sound. *shrugs*
as far as ive seen it dosent fade once it lands because ive been able to slow a few diffrent mobs at once with one single cast of steeltrap.
cast steeltrap with 2 mobs on inc with /pet focus on, sic pet on one mob watch for the emot then sic pet on mob #2 asap before it fades most that time you can get both slowed with one cast if you watch for the procs. 4 procs ...4 chances to slow one mob or more then one if you move the pet around.
can someone with an audio program make us a sound, 1 minute, sound file? :p
Preferably 2 different sounds.
Quote from: Rarrum on September 25, 2006, 03:52:56 PM
-60 is only rank 1 also... rank 2 is -80 and rank 3 is -100.
I got it last night finally.. and I really like it. My favorite part:
I slow a mob as it's inc with Sha's Legacy.
3 seconds later chanter overrides my slow.
3 seconds later my pet overrides their slow.
Muaha... revenge at last![/b]
-----
My only problem with it, is it seems like it sometimes fades without actually proccing. Sometimes it'll go off like 4 times from a single cast.. sometimes 0 (0 as in I don't see the "Rarrum's Warder begins to cast a spell <Steeltrap Jaws Strke>"). I'm guessing there may be a bug where, since 2 procs can't go off on the same attack, if this happens to "proc" at the same time as epic or something, then we just lose this one. I need to go back through logs to get some chunks with concrete examples of this though.
ROFL ! so true ><
i can confirm what rarrumm is saying. i think procs are being used up without actually proccing if the pet is already hitting with another proc at that moment.
I get it last nite and try it for a full Nest mission. Its really nice, once you setup the audio trigger. Sure it suck to not have message from resist or fade, you can prolly make more audio for it.
I wonder why the audio trigger fonction cannot send message text instead. This fonction will rock, send test, as you can send test message to the raid for when Slow hit, without the need to hit a social key. It could even be setup to send a /tell to X caster to clear your X spell from you. If they can implement adui trigger, should be to hard to send text! :?
As for the pet slow, i am really happy with it so far. I have seen 4 proc with no audio trigger, must have been resist. It proc fairly fast. so 2 tumb's up for this new addition.
p.s.: i don't thing the resolve the problem with lv 65 slow overiding lev 70 in the case caster of leave 65 is higher than the caster of lv 70.
Quote from: hakaaba on September 27, 2006, 05:50:45 PM
i can confirm what rarrumm is saying. i think procs are being used up without actually proccing if the pet is already hitting with another proc at that moment.
I always kind of assumed that it was procing but being resisted. Since we can't see the resist messages from pet procs we have no idea how much it gets resisted.
they need to change the buff icon same as SE and pet proc aint working imo :roll:
Got solid evidence of this here:
http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=beastlordbalance&message.id=3696
Steeltrap's proc counters get "lost" with other procs.
Sort of semi on topic.
Don't be restricted by the default audio triggers - make your own.
There are many text readers out there that will make a .wav from text. Make your own slow triggers - or for anything else for that matter.
My favorite is "Melee out! Melee out! for Ture encounters, or Left Side Left Side etc for Rikki.
If there was a fade message in text it would be cake for these slows.
so you guys are finding this useful it sounds like. I'm skeptical. When I'm slower, I'd like to have a slow attempted within 5 sec of engage. Warder procs 5x per minute, so on average this 1st attempt will be after 12 seconds. Typically the mob will be 50% dead by the time slow lands and sometimes will die before it get slowed at all. I don't find this acceptable - if it's worth slowing, then it needs to be done ASAP.
Situationally, perhaps, but I don't see using this on a regular basis.
Yes pet can slow sometime later in the melee, but very often it proc as i hit Pet attack. Usully when it don't slow very fast, the proc fade becaus the 4 slow resisted. Still in the mad pull none stop, it nice to have the extra slow from pet, its just you need to recast slow on pet after each mob that die.
Not having the initial aggro/dmg from slow is nice, as tss MOB HIT PRETTY HARD, oups caps.
"Warder procs 5x per minute, so on average this 1st attempt will be after 12 seconds."
Remember that steeltrap has a better proc rate mod than spirit of xxx. Those spells are 150% proc rate mod, while steeltrap is 200%. I have seen resists be an issue, but shy of proc stacking issues that I'm trying to get looked into I really haven't had much of a problem with the slow firing off pretty early.
I was playiing with this yesterday and it seams to be working fine. I cast slow just to see if it was working and a little after you would see the slow get overiden and steeljaw fade. For soloing its great and for times when you have to mobs in camp its great. It's a great adition to our pet line of spells.
The mana cost and short duration of the buff, for me at least, make it impossible for me to use it much in group content. Most mobs I solo don't die in 60 seconds or less, so its not as useful for solo content either..
So that leaves it as raid content for preslowing.
If it were reduced to say 100mana, then perhaps there would be more room for it in group content. But another 300mana spell to cast each mob is taxing to a mana pool.
Solo its ok.. it just seems to fade at the wrong times... so timing and learning is needed.
Group its just too expensive given the rapid pulling and its short duration.
Raid it should work well but I just dinged yesterday, so I don't have lots of info yet.
I noticed that if I didn't use the /pet focus command, that my warder would attack any unslowed mobs before attacking ones that were slowed. Might be good for multiple pulls and slowing quicker.
Have also noticed it fading before it ever procs, if that helps any.
This happens alot more often now that i've gotten a little testing in.. he will rarely proc it 2 times before steeltrap fades... never 4... once in a blue moon 3.. usually just once..
To SOE:
Double the charges, or fix the bug :)
Also lower the mana cost.
Please :)
Tried to use steeltrap jaws as only slow in Ashengate today but basicly its useless with the current issues. It is a nice idea but it wears off before firing around 70% of the time and often doesnt land at all even if it fires (never more than twice). Please fix this spell, it is a very nice idea but at the moment of no practical use.
What determines proc order for these buffs? Maybe that just needs changing so that steeltrap procs first. That may mean that fetter procs first too, not sure if that is good or not.. it would decrease pet dps when using fetter.
My understanding is that when multiple items can proc, it's prety random which one does proc any given time.
I tested this (very unscientifically) by loading my Epic proc, Fetter of Spirits and Spirit of Irionu, plus a shammy casting panther on my pet. In the course of stomping red con mobs in the TSS zones, my logs showed all of the procs firing, but in no particular order. Seems to be based upon the proc rate mod.
Savage Wildcaller's Blessing has a proc rate mod=400 (nb the 2.0 Might of the Wild Spirits has the same proc rate mod=400)
Spirit of the Panther has a proc rate mod=400 (nb so does the new TSS Talisman of the panther)
Steeltrap Jaws has a proc rate mod=200
Spirit of Irionu has a proc rate mod 150
Hobble of Spirits has a proc rate mod 150 (nb Fetter of Spirits has the same proc rate mod=150)
From the list here, you can see that either panther or the epic will proc more than twice as much as your stun proc or your fetter. Also keep in mind that even when you have multiple procs loaded, only one will proc at any given time. From what I was able to tell in the course of reviewing my logs for about 6 hours of hunting, the actual procs appear to happen in a random order, with a frequency based upon the proc rate mod. That's not a long enough sample to prove anything, but may be indicative, and I'm sure other beasties will come back with their own conclusions about it.
So what does this all mean to you? Well, lets say that you get 10 pet procs in the course of stomping a mob. Your epic plus panther is going to proc for almost all of them based on the proc rate mod. Your lower rate procs like steeltrap jaws or fetter or your stun proc will proc at some point in the battle, but theres no reason to think it will be right away, unless it's the only proc you have loaded.
(and yes I know fetter and steeltrap don't stack.. Just using them as an example)
i vote for double the charges. cause fixing the underlying bug is probably a code issue. And we all know how expedient sony is at fixing code issues :roll:
Well, at the moment i do use Steeltrap Jaws as my normal slow, but for it to work i cannot use my epic click since that just procs way too often, without epic chances are high that STJ procs often enough.
Never thought they meant that by saying that epics become obsolete in TSS.
I think Steeltrap Jaws is bugged.
What I've seen is that ANY pet proc at all, whether Lairn or Epic or whatever uses up a charge of Steeltrap Jaws.
When I was playing with it recently, I set up an audio trigger which worked well. Then I tried it with all sorts of combinations of other pet buffs, and it looks like to have it proc reliably in the limited charges it has, it pretty much has to be the only proc loaded, since the other procs use charges for it.
When it does proc, it slows really well, but especially with other pet procs that have a high proc rate mod it seems to be bugged. I hope they fix it sometime soon.
Have any of you encountered that as well?
Also, since it doesn't stack with Fetter, I find myself using my cast slows more than it to be able to keep fetter up. Especially since I can land Sha's Legacy on mobs up through Qvic and a bit past..
What's your experience with it?
I vote that steetrap not have a set number of charges at all and that it just wears of when its buff timer is up, i mean how uber would that make us if it was like that, not too much more than we are right now just with less stress of trien to firgure out if the mob is slowed or not, then we really wouldn't have to worry about wear off msg. or anything like that. You still wouldn't be able to slow the mob b4 it got to camp, just like it is now. So from that point of view it seems like the way they should go with this spell.
lessen the duration of the buff (30 secs or so) to fit what the devs seem to want out of it? that sounds frankly reasonable. No worn foci should be able to affect it then (there a flag on the spell to make it where AA not affect it? Granted, add'l 2,3 ticks of duration probably wouldn't do that much (Add'l ticks from extension AAs))
I like the idea of making it a fixed timed spell, rather than # charges. That wouldn't fix our issue tho. I think Sony should tweak the code to allow multiple procs in 1 swing. Everyone in the game would like that and it would fix our issue here.
Quotethink Sony should tweak the code to allow multiple procs in 1 swing. Everyone in the game would like that and it would fix our issue here.
I think that may break some things honestly pak. And it would require one helluva learning curve for people to readjust to the agro that would generate.
And they couldn't just do it for pets, since it's a proc effect. Mostly for 2 reasons: 1) they'd have to code a new thing for pets alone 2) They wouldn't consider it fair for pets to be only ones getting this proc mod.. and the whiny flamestorm that would ensue would be maddening as well.
Maybe should make it work like the SPF's. When they proc you get an animation, so you can see its doing *something* When the 4 procs are up, no more slow pets.
I dont think making 2 procs go off at once would have a big impact at all. Take a duel wielder with 50 CE and WA5. He procs 6x(1.5+1.5)=18 times a minute meaning he procs every 3 seconds or so. The chance for a double proc is .33x.33= .1 = 10% chance. So you'll see about 10% more procs. An increase for sure, but not a huge one(roughly 2 dps increase). Pets proc 13x for epic+9 for self buff+5 for toys=27 times a minute, so they'd see a proc boost of 20% leading to a dps boost of (75x.2=) 15 dps. Aggro is not an issue with pets of course.
Assumptions and math may be off, but that should be in the ballpark. I cant see how people would whine about getting 10% more procs, other than those that would whine about getting $1 million because someone else got 1.1 mill.
pak.. it would be casters that would be quite unhappy over it. They already voice vehement complaints over present increases in melee dps. This coding would probably also be a large pita to do. And honestly, I think, except for the case of Steeltrap, it works fairly nicely.
2min buff
no charges.
/want
If fixing the charges bug is too hard, there are a number of options for other things to tweak:
1. increase number of charges
2. remove charges completely
and balance either of the above with:
3. decrease duration of buff, or
4. decrease duration of slow debuff
the devs obviously want this to be a short term buff.
With extension AAs, if they make it a base 30 sec buff, we can only make it be 42 secs (I'm pretty certain.. correct me if I'm a tick off pls.. not doing math yet this morning).
Eliminate the silly charges thing, make it last for 30 secs and it should meet the needs that they want. Hell.. make its duration 3 or 4 ticks. If the pet hasn't landed the procc that more than once in that time frame, the procs not gonna land on the mob ;p
i'm really not seeing how it would be over powering to have a buff that last 15 mins and procs a 70% slow. I mean how fast a mob got slowed would still lie soley on the fact that he gets a proc to land early or not.
obviously, they want us to have to cast it repeatedly. We are not going to get them to budge on that. If we use it as a replacement for our other slows, I find that extremely reasonable thing to do.
This is why I would like it to just have a very short duration when it is cast on the pet, not be a charged thing, or something silly like that. The bard etc spells already show up on the pet.. why can't this be thrown into that mix as well?
My theory for why it doesnt work is that during beta it never stacked with any other proc, therefore BSTS requested that it stack.
Now it "stacks", but doesnt proc, perhaps this is as intended, a sneaky dev trick.
It doesn't stack with fetter, so groups w/o a snare class you can't use it in, and you can't use it when your soloing, unless you know that the mob your fighting is not gonna run. To me this spell is situational even if it was working properly. I really don't know what the dev's were trien to do when they made this spell but in its current or even possible fixed state i would have no problem if it was removed from the game.
I haven't found a reasonable situation to use this regularly. The only time I use it is on groupable named mobs. Anguish aug mobs or DOD mission end bosses.........things like that. Any mob that I think the outcome might be questionable. It's not reliable enough for soloing trash, not to mention, slowing a mob on pull is what I'm used to. Depending on a proc after so many years is tough. Then there are the questions to how long it will last, when it will wear off, if it was resisted... all of that makes me prefer slowing myself.
I wouldn't mind if Tardar's description of when he uses it is the spell's best use so much if I didn't have to feel like I needed to click off every proc the pet has + not give it weapons in order for it to actually do its thing. I just recently dinged 75, tried it once, and haven't tried it again because my very first time using it I got the "worn off message" w/o it ever firing.
The easiest way to fix this spell that I can think of, that would leave it the way the devs seem to want it to be is to make it proc like mana flare does. Proc off the warders other procs, that way you get all 4 charges no matter what, and it still wears off every fight and needs to be recast.
"The easiest way to fix this spell that I can think of, that would leave it the way the devs seem to want it to be is to make it proc like mana flare does. Proc off the warders other procs, that way you get all 4 charges no matter what, and it still wears off every fight and needs to be recast."
Thats a dam good idea Dilgar!
Agree.. having it proc like mana flare would definately fix it, and add a bit more value to epic proc too due to it's proc rate.
I continue to try this here and there.. grouping in FC etc. I really just see no value to it ..unrealiable..hard to know if it actually wroked, etc.. like many things, created by someoe that doesn't actually understand the game
Just got this spell and honestly.. I'd rather get a new slow that I can cast.. Pet can cast all her procs and snare and whatnots.. - I like to have the control of the slow not leaving it up to random procs.
I'm pretty dissapointed with the75 Steeltrap and with the75 Fero.. I thought Fero would rock.. both their durations are WAY to short.
KitKat
Quote from: Kitathia on December 05, 2006, 03:06:31 PM
Just got this spell and honestly.. I'd rather get a new slow that I can cast.. Pet can cast all her procs and snare and whatnots.. - I like to have the control of the slow not leaving it up to random procs.
I'm pretty dissapointed with the75 Steeltrap and with the75 Fero.. I thought Fero would rock.. both their durations are WAY to short.
KitKat
Completly agree Kitathia, Dev having a hard time solving this issue, they should give us back a regular slow. I rarelly use this spell anymore, only in very specific situation and that like 1-2% of my solo exping. It's very disapointing to see dev's keeping spell as it's, they not improving the player enjoyement, sometime i thing they try to kill EQ faster.
Has a thread even been started on this on the EQ message boards? Maybe point it out to Prathun in front of everyone so it may give him some push to work it since it's practically broke.
it *is* broke.
It has a thread of sorts on the class board. It is mentioned in several posts on the class board.
There is, of course, no dev response there at all. (Post to Vet Lounge?)
I think we should post it to the Vet boards then yeah Kanan. Just need to provide the link to the previous class threads of course. I mean why not call Prathun out on a worthless spell? I pointed it out to him after he asked some spells being useless for a general thread and he ignored it straight up. So it might not hurt to start a thread all its own in the Vet forum since they seem to ignore class boards anymore. :roll:
The spell is very useful i certain situations, but 90% of the time there is no need for it.
Only time i use it is when i cant slow a mob, our slow is -30 and the rank2 is -80, so ive had this land on mobs that otherwise would have gone unslowed( Raid targets such as Shyra, CHailak, Feratha and even Group Named).
Its saved me a few times.
And yes i agree with the poster above, id most def rather have a 75slow with a -50 or -60 check.
I'm hoping one of the devs sees our plight and people don't flame me to bad but hell this is just getting plain stupid. I went ahead and posted it up over on the vet boards here: http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Veterans&message.id=336035 (http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Veterans&message.id=336035). Go post and keep it bumped over the weekend for them to see. Maybe we will get some feedback. The squeaky wheel has to get the grease at some point right?
Very nicely put Otuol!
Now let's hope for a reaction.
KitKat
I gave your post a bump. It was falling to the end of the page. I am sad that this very creative spell is not working right. I always like it when they add unconventional spells.
Never ever blatantly bump in the sony forums. It just pisses off the moderators and generally does more damage to the thread than good as the subject gets changed from whatever to rule violations.
Also, the bulk of the devs really do take weekends off and don't spend their personal time reading the forums.
People will reply to it though. With as big of an issue as it seems to be I'm hoping beastlords will post to it and keep it on up there. Not everyone visits our site here so I am sure there are other bst's out there realizing something is wrong with the spell.
Key word was "blatantly", which is what happened (partly your fault for actually asking for bumps). The subject of your thread is currently about bumpage, reducing the odds a dev will respond.
/shrug
I had to re-read their forum rules again. I do read the rules when I join a forum, but I haven't read the EQ ones in years. I should have refreshed my memory before I posted. I don't think I will apologize there though, since that will just bump the thread again. I will apologize here though for possibly screwing our chances of getting the spell looked at. I really do think it was cool of SoE to try to add such an unusual spell. Now if only it worked!
I find it kind of interesting that the moderators chose that thread to jump all over. If you search for the word bump you will find multiple threads where people have bumped posts. However, there was no moderator interaction in any of the threads I saw other then mine. Maybe the Steeltrap one just happened to stand out for some reason.
Anyways, I will just try to avoid the SoE forums from now on. Perhaps that would be best for us all.
Well, if you noticed, I went back there and added a few comments while standing up for you. Per my post, you did add your own thoughts to it. You didn't just say the word bump just for the effect of keeping it up there. I thought it was a little harsh for HH-Silver to post that considering you did so. Anyhow, it looks like I left the topic wide open. I made the mistake of not just labeling it Steeltrap Jaws :cry:. The thread isnt seeing a whole lot of input, but maybe that's due to everything has been said in the links I posted. We'll see, but I do hope others will still go over there and /agree with me about point one and then add their own thoughts to point two which I said needed some discussion.
meh.. i swear the devs don't bother to read outside of eqforums much anymore. Linking to it and then doing add'l commentary helps.
I threw in a few more cents on it again. I know my idea is definitely a minority (i'm prolly only one who likes it, but /shrug ;p), but its up there, and is trying to get on topic. And I didn't say jack abt bumping it. That Admin was being pissy imo.
i'd like it more if it worked
I did my best to un-derail the topic. I hope it helps, but don't hold your breath.
I can't say that I blame the devs for not reading the forums much. There's so much flaming and derailing and useless bashing there that its damn near impossible to get to whats actually important in a thread and pull the useful ideas out.
Looks like we are getting ignored on it. I tell you what, I am close to giving this game up all together. My biggest beef with SOE this whole time has been communication, or lack thereof. They fail to let us know their procedures of how they get things done and fail to simply acknowledge legitimate issues. I didn't put that out there to call the devs out. I simply wanted to help the community I am a part of and the class I play. Sorry, but I gave it my best shot. Tastian, if you are still reading these boards, what say you?
If it worked, I would use it situationally to help build aggro when I am tanking for a group that has a snaring class.
steeltrap doesnt give you the aggro, it's a pet proc. Which does make it useful for when you *don't* want aggro, but tanking is a time youre generally gonna want to directly slow.
Well then I can't see even a situational use as a tanking BL. Using the pet to slow adds means the pet will damage the adds and put them into summoning mode. That will lead to nothing but tears.
the purpose of it is to have a greater slow that is proc dependent.
They don't intend us to have a slow spell that we can just cast once and be able to depend upon for a long time.
They intend it to be like other slow spells, in that we pretty much have to cast it once, at least, per mob. And I am looking at this from the beastlord point of view. This spell is intended to replace us memming a regular slow, to grant us add'l agro control by shuffling the agro the slow generates over to our pet.
The execution of the procs sucks obviously.
Kenusten... why are you concerned at all about it summoning? If you're gonna be tanking, you'd be in melee range. The only time it summoning would be a concern would be if you were kiting... which bsts are incredibly poorly designed to do.
It's still situational here for raid mobs that "need" to be slowed that might not get slowed instantly by shamans/enchanters... or when we don't have those classes on hand for smaller raids or bad luck with classes.
It still is much too costly/short for any use towards replacing our casting slows...
300mana too expensive for a proc that evaporates in 30seconds or less.... and never lands most of the time.
100mana with 8 charges, or 300mana with 2min duration on the proc buff(not slow.. it can stay at one minute i guess).
For me to see many beastlords using it, you would have to make it mana efficient to cast it on pet before every mob or make it a static duration that gives us time to med the 300mana.
I don't see it being used when a new mob is in camp every 45seconds or less... which happens in some experience groups, especially older content.
and make it actually capable of proccing...
i don't know about you, but pets are generally not exactly welcomed with open arms on raids, especially sending them in early. There's also the fact that you're risking getting rampage by doing that. But, yes, it is one potential use assuming they ever fix the stupid spell.
I am concerned about summoning on multi-pulls. I am not concerned about the mob I am tanking summoning, but the rest while they are being locked down. Those mobs getting damaged can lead to the CC or the healer getting summoned. Even if the damage is not enough to cause serious harm to them, the summoning still causes problems by interuptting their spells that they are casting.
We got an answer via another thread :-D. It's not what some might want to hear, but at least Prathun gave his nod to the problem so is aware of the issue. I just hope no one flames on about his not wanting to post when he has no answer like the paladin community correspondent did :roll:. I would expect more out of a correspondent. Oh well, there's your answer for the time being fellow beastlords.
http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Veterans&message.id=339437#M339437 (http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Veterans&message.id=339437#M339437)
coupla the people on that thread were a might bit more acidic than I'd prefer, but the thrust of their argument is sound. Some response is preferred over the flat out silence they so often give.
Hell.. when Zajeer came in & said he was happy with bst mitigation once, we stfu about it. If Prath had simply commented on the Steeltrap thread that he was aware that we have concerns and had it on his list to look at, I'm sure we all woulda been content.
One big thing I'd like them to change about Steltrap.. if they do intend on us having it ( I still rather get to cast the slow myself).. I'd like to cast Steeltrap and NOT have to switch targets back to the mobs.
I'm overjoyed that they fixed our epic clicky and I'd love if Steeltrap worked the same way..
KitKat
I choose: Resurrection!
Anyway :roll: I find it quite interesting that today a paladin posted about a spell/item problem they had about DA hammer and Nodyin agve this response: http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Veterans&message.id=347266#M347266 (http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Veterans&message.id=347266#M347266). Now how in the hell can they look into paladin issues with a spell being possibly bugged but we get told by Prathun they more or less don't have time to look into it. I think we are being blown off and lied to.
their tool is a viable raid tool.. That's big reason why it actually gets some attention, vs many of ours that are useless in raids.
I've changed Rank 1 of Steeltrap Jaws to a Mana Flare type of proc on Beta. If it works OK I'll change all the ranks so that they behave in that manner. Sorry for the delay on this. I've got a lot of time this Beta to look at spells ... in general ... so I'll be making a number of tweaks in the coming month.
Thanks for the feedback,
-Prathun
Thank you Prath for coming and letting us know about the change. Although its likely not to change many people's opinion on the spell, at least now it will be a usable version should people attempt to use it.
Quote from: Prathun on January 11, 2007, 02:03:58 AM
I've changed Rank 1 of Steeltrap Jaws to a Mana Flare type of proc on Beta. If it works OK I'll change all the ranks so that they behave in that manner. Sorry for the delay on this. I've got a lot of time this Beta to look at spells ... in general ... so I'll be making a number of tweaks in the coming month.
Thanks for the feedback,
-Prathun
Prathun,
Thank you so much for finally looking into this. I must say I was shocked to see this and I truly appreciate it. I know I lobbied hard on this and I apologize if I busted your balls a little, but it just seemed like there was no end in sight for the fix. Again thank you and I sure hope you are being given the time by your management team to fix spells, because I honestly think you want to get these all in order, it just simply came down to time.
Another patch and does this work?
Stuff being changed on BETA is most likely not going to be seen until the next expansion.
They doubled the charges on it to "fix" it. In the end, it's still a worthless spell as the other procs still take from the charges. They didn't fix anything.
Ah cool thanks. Had my hopes up we might see it sooner rather than later. hehe
The proposed mana flare change didn't work, it wasn't working. The doubling of the proc rate is the suppose to be a temporary and going ot try to fix it in the future.
lets hope they just dont let this slide
Quote from: Dilgartownguard on January 18, 2007, 01:04:14 AM
They doubled the charges on it to "fix" it. In the end, it's still a worthless spell as the other procs still take from the charges. They didn't fix anything.
/concur
Until they change it so that it only counts its own procs, this spell is pretty much useless. Yes, I have rank II of it, and no I can't think of any situation where I'd use it much.
I have found that if your in a group situation where you don't have a pull class and your the only slower and basically are SURE to get at least one or two adds, but you have effective tanking/offtanking and healing, having this spell for pet to slow the adds helps, if your busy tanking one yourself. I've only used this in this exact situation two times thou and right now its collecting dust in my spell book.
Darn shame too, it seemed interesting at first but now I wish they had just given us a 70% slow instead to us beasts instead of the dern pet. And damn SOE for the "fake" fix. /shakes paw
I actually found it to be a decent preslow ability on raids still, particularly on the ones that main slowing classes have hard time nailing or keepign down. That is just me.
I personally like this spell allot for groups that pull adds allot .... like Mew said grouped with adds on every pull make this allot easier to slow them all. I think in a good group the dps added from other pet procs is not gonna make a big difference so i click them off cept for Steeltrap. Yeah it doesnt last very long but a focused pet on MT's mob gives ya time to slow adds and usually when i get back to MT's mob my slow is resisted from pets haven allready landed.
Other than that situation i dont use it really. Would be nice if it as fixed to stack with the other procs and last its full duration.
Umm...when I used Steeltrap Jaws...it stacked perfectly fine with all of my pet procs and epic. Everything stacked just fine and was really darn nice.
The reason I am told I cannot use this at raids to help "preslow" or even if I have to be slower, is that chanter slow and shaman slow cannot overwrite it. I tested this months ago when the spell first came out with a enchanter, and they couldn't overwrite my pets slow.
Does anyone know if this was changed? Maybe i'll test it and post logs.
Do test it, and specify which enchanter spell was tested (it may be just the lower level spells won't overwrite, including the time stick). But don't assume that an enchanter test holds for shamans. I'm not sure about enchanters, but shaman 75% slow overwrites fine, I think.
Not being about to overwrite it with our OWN slow is a bigger issue (combined with lack of feedback from pet slow), IMO. I'd actually prefer to see the pet downgraded to a 65% slow.
Beasts in my guild have said the same thing, that it does over-write chanter slow. I'm not sure which, though, as I don't care what chanters have loaded if I get NDT. =D
Remember that overwriting and blocking are related, but not the same statement at all.
I think its no better then our slow its just that it blocks enchy's slow from landing
Quote from: Timberghost on January 19, 2007, 11:00:47 PM
Quote from: Dilgartownguard on January 18, 2007, 01:04:14 AM
They doubled the charges on it to "fix" it. In the end, it's still a worthless spell as the other procs still take from the charges. They didn't fix anything.
/concur
Until they change it so that it only counts its own procs, this spell is pretty much useless. Yes, I have rank II of it, and no I can't think of any situation where I'd use it much.
I stand corrected. I've been playing with Steeltrap Jaws again since they patched it and the 12 charges is plenty enough for it to proc reliably, even with Lairn and my epic up.
Also the -80 MR on Steeltrap Rank II is nice for some mobs that needed a couple of casts of Sha's Legacy before.
IMO it's now doing what they want. You get to pay the 300 mana (big deal) between every 2 or 3 mobs, but it helps us get em slowed fast.
So, if there's an SK, Necro or Druid around and we don't need fetter, Steeltrap turns out to be pretty nice since they patched it.
Yeah the change may be a band aid, but it has antibiotic ointment....thus when the wound heals on this one it won't leave a horribel scar.
The 12 charges does make the proc a more viable toy now. Not quite a real reliable tool, but has its uses.
I use this more times then I can count in anguish aug runs....99% of the time I am slower so this actually does help till I can land legacy/ revenge on the mob but still wish they would solve it for good
I use this ability a lot...
It's really a preloaded slow... cast it while you have down time... when the next fight start, launch your pet in early... and see if you can still land yer "sha's" type of slows... I bet yer pet will slow the mob very quickly....
Quote from: Swampfunk on May 15, 2007, 03:01:36 PM
I use this ability a lot...
It's really a preloaded slow... cast it while you have down time... when the next fight start, launch your pet in early... and see if you can still land yer "sha's" type of slows... I bet yer pet will slow the mob very quickly....
Swamp, try Steeltrap with your Epic proc loaded. It slows down the landing rate enough that I don't use my epic click when slowing with Pet