New top 10 list(10/20/04)...

[Bengali]

I think that a debuff should at least be presented as an alternative to the slow with a resist mod.  Don't get me wrong, I like the resist mod idea, but there are some ways in which a resist mod spell is more powerful than having to debuff and then cast a different spell.  For one thing, it's much faster.  It's not always clear which is the more powerful, and which therefore has the most potential to upset balance.  We should at least try to hash it out some.

The second reason is that while slow is hard to land, so are a lot of our other spells.  I'm still compiling data on it, but the numbers for cold/poison/disease resists aren't looking as good as I'd thought either.  One thing is that aside from maloxxxxx, none of these resists are typically debuffed.  Druids will use all sorts of fire debuffs, and tash is frequently used as well, so for these two resists a mob is often debuffed over and above the maloxxxx line.  Druids don't tend to use their E'ci debuff line -- instead they use their fire debuff dots (which have a resist mod) and follow up with their fire debuff.  Shamans rarely seem to use insidious/putrid decay, etc.

If a debuff was reasonable, it wouldn't lead to beastlords supplanting the desirability of other classes.  For example, Malos + Nihil is the magical pot of gold at the end of the proverbial rainbow when it comes to slowing in Riftseekers'.  No other class comes close -- that combo is a 75% slow (albeit mitigated) and -95 in resist mods (unresistable).  That makes a big difference in places like riftseekers' too -- since even after tash or HOS you can get a string of resists.

I think something like 3.0 sec cast, 6 sec recast, -30 cr/pr/dr/mr, 225 mana, -50 resist mod debuff would work.  It debuffs disease instead of fire which makes the maloxxxx line more popular overall, and it's not as good as the unresistable debuffs.

[gungo ninescullz]

All pet classes need better pets as it is, but actually mage pets kick our pets butt, even the GoD MS4 pet out-tanks and out-dpses our OoW lvl 68 Pet by a fair margin. Our pets need a healthy increase in DPS and HP, most of all the focused versions of it. Beastlords should not be able to summon theyre own pet weapons, but i would really love to see the lore tag removed from the burning shanks.

Mage pets were upgraded to be better at tanking then ours, as it should be, w slow our pet still tanks better then a mage pet. The reason i wanted items that summon wpns for the pet is that while you progress and gear up in the game your pets do not. which has always been a flaw in pet classes. Now if you can obtain items that summon items to upgrade pets dps your pet will essentially get upgraded as you do. Pet Foci was a good attempt at progressing pets, but it needs more lvls of foci throughout the game.

Even with aa and foci our pet heals are way from being a CH, our new one just heals about 25-30% of my (raid buffed) 68 pet, Mend is still our best heal with 7k base healed for no mana and no casting time.
The innate hybrid spell haste doesnt work on pet heals since it works only on detrimental spells and not on beneficial. So you need a 30% spell haste focus to get the casting time down to 6s.

The good thing about AA and healing foci it does help our pet heals at 2730hp heal base add in 40% marr's foci and  15-19% max pop-OOW AA's. Thats about 4500 non-crit for a about an 80% heal. But yes that is not a raid buffed pet so essentially it will come out to below 50% on a raid buffed pet.

I would like to see that focus youre using, or do you have maxed OoW healing aas and they increase heal power way more than the pre-OoW ones? At the moment i can do max 809 heal non crit with full pop heal aas and no focus. Not that i think we should get better healing, its is in line with other classes at the moment, just a bit low for the highend gaming, healing 11k on me or 10k on the chanter next to me is kinda slow ;)

You are right lol guess my math is wrong. I was thinking at a 680 base heal w a 40% foci and 15-19% w max pop-oow healing aa's it would come out to about 1100 non-crit. which is fine.

It was late and a long post =P what i really wanted to point out in that post was if we upgraded current aa's that have little dps gain to give us more dps our dps issues won't be a major problem. They should give us a decent burst upgrade and overall better sustained dps. By giving the new ferocity a proc % we increase our proc dps. By hastening Roar of thunder we lower our agro overall and get a very small dps upgrade. By adding a double atk %, crit % and/or hundred hands effect to an upgraded form of frenzy we will increase our dps a decent amount (add in our dam disc and there is our burst dps upgrade). hastening feral strike and bestial alingment just makes these aa's better and an actual dps upgrade for a small amount of over all dps. instead of stating dps issues i was trying to come up w ideas to improve dps and fix current aa's.

P.S and i really liek the bst cr/mr malo debuff (druids rarely debuff cold resist)[/quote]

[cougerofeq]

Our pets better when we slow? That only on unmitigated slows or at what level of mitigation does our pet pass a mages on tankability?  Ours never has more dps then? Assuming that 75% of the time a shaman or chanter is slowing in a group then our pets are much weaker most of the time?

Of course solo where mobs are not mitigating slow(to some percent) ours may be better? but then again, how often does that happen?  Mages also get a high point damage shield that actually works better for thier pet if they dont fight slowed mobs.

How long and how much must we suffer for whats now an almost always mitigated slow and what are the actual parses that show how our pet fairs solo with slow versus mage pets? There is so much missinformation about our class, I want to see some facts before such a broad statement passes for fact.

"Gut feelings are often just gas"

[Grimbeast]

Just my 2cp but the spell line up is the most ridiculous crap I've seen yet well cept for GoD expansion entirely.

[Hereki]

How long and how much must we suffer for whats now an almost always mitigated slow and what are the actual parses that show how our pet fairs solo with slow versus mage pets? There is so much missinformation about our class, I want to see some facts before such a broad statement passes for fact.

Mage DS counts for less and less, the harder mobs hit.  A 60 point damage shield is pointless when mobs hit for 500-1k, unless you have massive healing resources (or slow).  Mage pets have to tank if they are solo.  Beastlord pets do not tank solo, or only spend a small amount of time soloing.

A mob that mitigates slow is still slowed, btw.

The problem with asking for parses is that you need to parse something realistic.  If you don't have a sympathetic understanding of how the class works, you won't a clue of what to parse, and you won't realise that you don't have that clue.

Mages aren't the demon here.  SOE designers who don't understand how their game is played are.

[Dummkopf]

Ehm, were not talking about 60 ds, were talking over 400 and thats serious DPS.

[Graace]

Mage DS counts for less and less, the harder mobs hit.  A 60 point damage shield is pointless when mobs hit for 500-1k, unless you have massive healing resources (or slow).  Mage pets have to tank if they are solo.  Beastlord pets do not tank solo, or only spend a small amount of time soloing.

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=5492&source=Live

420 DS that stacks with everything, lasts 4 hits or 3 ticks, either way only costs 300 mana, unresistable, quick cast, and I think they probably will get the specialization bonus etc to reduce manacost farther...

So they benefit now from unslowed mobs on a pet.

[Moffett]

Given the mana cost and recast delay this is hardly any different in effect from a slowed or unslowed mob. If it lasted more than 4 hits over 18 seconds I would agree, but it doesn't. This is simply another way for mages to do their damage other than nuking.

[Tastian]

It's really off topic, but the DS is awesome.  It's very mana efficent on damage.  The actual recasting is only ~10 seconds longer than normal spell refresh and it's much, much less aggro than actually dropping a 1.6k nuke on the mobs head.  Spell isn't crazy overpowered like some think, but it's definitely a very nice spell that can't simply be dismissed like some are doing.  It's really off topic though so please try to keep this discussion to beastlords, their dps, their issues, etc.

[Pheral]

Even with aa and foci our pet heals are way from being a CH, our new one just heals about 25-30% of my (raid buffed) 68 pet, Mend is still our best heal with 7k base healed for no mana and no casting time.
The innate hybrid spell haste doesnt work on pet heals since it works only on detrimental spells and not on beneficial. So you need a 30% spell haste focus to get the casting time down to 6s.

The good thing about AA and healing foci it does help our pet heals at 2730hp heal base add in 40% marr's foci and  15-19% max pop-OOW AA's. Thats about 4500 non-crit for a about an 80% heal. But yes that is not a raid buffed pet so essentially it will come out to below 50% on a raid buffed pet.

I would like to see that focus youre using, or do you have maxed OoW healing aas and they increase heal power way more than the pre-OoW ones? At the moment i can do max 809 heal non crit with full pop heal aas and no focus. Not that i think we should get better healing, its is in line with other classes at the moment, just a bit low for the highend gaming, healing 11k on me or 10k on the chanter next to me is kinda slow ;)

You are right lol guess my math is wrong. I was thinking at a 680 base heal w a 40% foci and 15-19% w max pop-oow healing aa's it would come out to about 1100 non-crit. which is fine.

Just a note (info from Lucy), Marr's Blessing is the best Marr's out there, and its 30%.  Also, there is only one item that we can use that has the effect on it (Mantle of Pure Spirit).  So can't really say that most beastlords will have/want to get it.  

Improved Healing V (20%), can be made with the new OoW aug receipes so might use that in your calculations.

[Grymlok]

It may be the best Marr's, but it is not the best healing foci.

[Skratchen]

Bump

Any good news on upcoming changes to fix Oow Beastlord issues yet?  As time goes on, my interest in waiting is waning.

[Bheran]

We're due for an update today.

With bst-specific issues happening, and everyone in my guild disappearing to other games, I'm starting to look at re-loading DAoC up again.

[Tastian]

Doesn't look like there will be many updates this week with fan faire and everything else.  I'm typing up an update on perfection atm, but most won't want to read it hehe.

[Maylian]

I'm curious to see if they're will be any BL specific pet AA's, this is always something that has bugged me. We currently have no specific pet AA's apart from the currently inefectual Hobble. Would like to see the dev's put in an AA that allowed us to do something special with our pets. As we all know Necro's get their horde of archers, Mages and Shamans get to summon their mini spirits.

I think that a Beastlord should get something that only we can do with our pet. Technically we're the purest pet class in the game yet we have no distinct pet AA's apart from 1 broken one.

Also maybe improve our current pets, seems strange how mages and necro pets get all different abilities whilst ours lag behind making do with enrage.

Would the dev's want to look at doing anything along those lines?