In order to properly answer this question, you must first determine your play style. Personally I'm after the most time efficient way to ultimate power. If you're like me, time is the most critical factor, than the ONLY way to level is to get to 65 first. Let me explain.
First like many, I've already leveled up several another characters, so I "know" EQ. In my case I made a beastlord and this would be my 3rd to level 65. So I fully intended to do it the fastest way possible. I did this without powerleveling, except for the first 15 levels. So from 16-65 I never soloed, I only grouped. The thing with solo versus grouping, over time the group xp is always higher. I would also sometimes play my main in another group, while leveling my lowbie. Only did this pre-pop since the leveling at those ranges was incredibly mind numbing, and boring.
Prior to 65 the only AA I received was from doing planar raiding, IE: PoJ Trial, Grummus, etc. I only did these because ultimately it would save time. Otherwise my xp went fully into experience.
Now I will explain why this is the best method, if time is your measure of success. First and most important, the level 65 groups are far superior to any others. Except in very rare cases, if someone is not 65, they are not going to contribute as much to obtaining xp fast as someone who is. (INSERT random nonsensical flame here all those not 65). Now of course exceptions can be made for healers, since levels not as important for a cleric. For everyone else in a group, make sure they are the highest level possible.
When I was looking for groups, I always tried to be the lowest in the group and tried to move to the next zone when I was at the lower level range required. I was able to do this, quite simply because I am a skilled player and usually once grouped people realized this. For instance a zone like PC has a range I suppose of about 12-24. I would come into PC at level 12, and stay until about level 20, then move on to the next zone. Rather than trying to suck xp up from a zone, when what I was hunting turned green I moved on.
If the group sucks, I would leave. Do this with caution though, and give the group a good several chances. I would frequently try to help with group out, in a nice way by sending private tells on strategies. If they were too stupid to listen leave. Usually though people would listen and that bad group would turn into an excellent xp source.
Now most people use level as a factor when picking a group, if I could not get a group because I was a low level, I could always return to the previous zone where they were still mostly blues with a few greens. Once I did get a group in the new zone I tried to stay until I gained at least one level or two, then I was no longer at the low level range for the zone.
Next pointer, dont move around in zones. Ask around and find the best places to level and stay there. Do not chase loot, plat, or AA until you max your levels. EQ is a level based game, everything else is secondary, including skill. Use this to your advantage.
Worry about AA and gear when you're 65 because you will get both much faster. Since you are mostly grouping, gear is not critical. Finding a good group is far more important. Don't solo, EQ is not a solo game, except in rare cases. If you want to solo, find another game.
End result, I'm well known and respected on my server. I'm level 65 with 150+ AA, EP flagged, VT flagged, best baz level gear with several nice EP pieces, in a great Time level guild, all with about 35 days played time on this character. I could have done it faster, but wasn't in a race and I did waste quite a bit of time helping others, just standing around talking etc. The key was when I was leveling, I was focused.
Also important try to play a class groups want, IE: Healer/Buffer/CC/Tank, and of course Beastlords. Don't play a solo class then spend all your time whinning because you can't get a group. Another point, dont listen to these fools who say you have to level slow to "learn" your class. Anyone with half a brain and experience with other games in this genre can "learn" any EQ class in a month. The way you play your class will change entirely once you're 65 and then again when you raid. What you do from 1-65 with no AA will not be the same when you're 65 with 100+ AA and raiding. So push yourself to 65, then you will really "Learn" how to play your class.
Life is hard but its a lot harder if you're stupid...
That's a good explanation - of why people say they powerlevel, because playing the lower level game is boring. In truth, it is what you make it.
A decent powerlevel guide. But only decent. To summarize: ride the coattails of characters higher than you for xp to 65, then raid to be handed gear... not exactly front page news...
Me, personally, I disagree with nearly everything you said. I enjoy playing EQ as much as you do, but I have a completely different playstyle. So, you are implying that not only am I playing wrong, but I am also not playing the right game.
QuoteDon't solo, EQ is not a solo game, except in rare cases. If you want to solo, find another game
If I didn't take this guide for what it is (a semi useful powerlevel guide), I would almost find this offensive, lol.
You forget that not everyone is in a raiding guild. Not everyone has the time to sit at a computer for hours on end on a raid.
And I do believe that you need to play a class to learn. Sure, if you are just grouped up and...
1. /assist
2. /pet attack
3. /pet follow
4. buff
5. Auto attack...
how have you learned anything? As a solo'er, I...
1. Heal myself, and cleric the pet... depending on situation
2. Tank myself, depending on situation
3. Buff
4. Pull
5. Position pet and myself
6. Travel without the aid of others... I LEARNED how to run through SG... a group will typically succor, eh?
7. Deal with the consequences when I screw up: corpse run by myself, making up for not being able to get a rez in the middle of nowhere...
All on my own. Hard earned EXPERIENCE. I know what spells to pull with in what situations. I figure out pathing on my own. I know how to control agro between the pet and me. And I do have at least half a brain.
QuoteI'm well known and respected on my server. I'm level 65 with 150+ AA, EP flagged, VT flagged, best baz level gear with several nice EP pieces, in a great Time level guild
OK... not sure which server that is, but here on MT, given just that info, you would be considered average at best. I have a reputation as well, as someone who KNOWS her class and her capabilities DAMN well.
Like I stated at the beginning. If TIME is your greatest concern, my method will get you there fastest...
I started out not wanting to deal with groups, so I set up a 3-Box. Its nice XP when I want, but I find it so totally boring to 3box I couldnt do it any more. So not only is XP faster in a group, I myself, find it far more enjoyable.
1. Heal myself, and cleric the pet... depending on situation Um DUH, if you're almost dead heal self, if pet almost dead heal pet. If both almost dead, run to zone. BTW: Grouping with a cleric does wonders. Most of the mobs I fight my baby heal wouldn't matter anyway. A good beast IMHO should NEVER be a pet cleric. Again: NEVER BE A PET CLERIC!
2. Tank myself, depending on situation Um Duh, Tank yourself, back off to heal self while pet tanks, move back in. NOT Rocket science here people.
3. Buff Um....YES!
4. Pull Again not rocket science. I pull ldons and GoD trials. Best way to learn is to get a few bad pulls, then say...Gee I try a different method next time.
5. Position pet and myself Position pet before fight, I can put that mob where I want it. Again takes the skill of a 5 year old to figure this one out.
6. Travel without the aid of others... I LEARNED how to run through SG... a group will typically succor, eh?
Well my "expanded guide" would tell you to avoid old world zones and only hunt in PoK. Gee where is that PoT stone again?
7. Deal with the consequences when I screw up: corpse run by myself, making up for not being able to get a rez in the middle of nowhere...
Two words....Necro/Cleric BOTS
To emphasize again, I simply posted this to perhaps help those questioning AA or Levels. This isn't for the person just starting out with a beastlord. This is for people like myself who have played EQ for years and still fighting with the debate of AA or levels first. If you want to min/max in EQ the fastest: group, level, AA, gear in that order. There you go, the secret it out.
Quote from: Banga
Um DUH
Um Duh
Again takes the skill of a 5 year old to figure this one out.
Very nice, thank you. It's these little tidbits that make me glad this was moved from the library to here. Skill of a 5 year old to pull, eh? Too bad your posts don't reflect the same skill...
QuoteA good beast IMHO should NEVER be a pet cleric. Again: NEVER BE A PET CLERIC!
Such nearsighted tactics is the first sign that you don't really know how to play this class... there are many solo situations that you pet cleric... if you haven't done them, then you clearly do not have the experience that I and many others here have, no? If all you do is group, then... well, I guess you need a group...
QuoteWell my "expanded guide" would tell you to avoid old world zones and only hunt in PoK.
Wha?
QuoteTwo words....Necro/Cleric BOTS
How is that beastlord strategy? You aren't LEARNING a class and its capabilities, you are LEANING on your other classes.
Someone must have figured out how to use cut and paste. How about now figuring out how not to over use it?
If you can't add anything to a post positive, then dont, move along now.
"First like many, I've already leveled up several another characters, so I "know" EQ."
And as always, that's the first sign that you're dealing with a moron.
Neight
This "guide" could be further picked apart by people who know more than I do. But I can see that it offers nothing in the way of playing the class. It offered nothing to the Level vs AA debate. So what, group to 65, then get AA's... OK, I know what you feel is important, but how does that add to the debate? What are you trying to say that much better beastlords than you haven't already said?
I am just curious as to how you will clarify the few bits that I quoted.
This has to be the most useless piece of crap on these boards.
Someone that plays like you promtly gets a /disband from my groups, as I don't have the time, nor the patience to deal with slackers and morons.
Only hunt in PoK?? Wow, last time I was there, it was only filled with merchants and trainers, wonder what you are hunting.
If you meant only hunt in PoP, well, that is one of the crappiest, most poorly designed PoS expansions ever, and had PoK been opened to all from day one, I wouldn't have bought it then, and still wouldn't have. I'll take killing 5 old world mobs that drop an average of 20p each in 1/10 the time it takes you to kill 1 PoP mob that drops nothing any day.
You are problably that idiot that zoned into dreadlands when I was there killin, and shouted for a group repeatedly...EVEN THO MY PET IS HIGHER LEVEL THAN YOU. Riding the coattails of others to 65 gets you there maybe a bit faster, but I am sure it also got you on plenty of people's ignore lists, as you begged over and over for a group you were too low level to be in.
Ahhh...this reminds me of eqclasses.com. My main, 65 necro, has to put up with that site for info/gossip/news ect...I came to THIS board to avoid that absolute CRAP on that site...and here it is again.
Going to quote someone's sig pic here...don't remember who or where but I remember seeing it
QuoteFighting over the internet is like playing in the special olympics...even if you win you are still retarted
Sorry. /Sigh had a long ass day and I guess I just let this get to me.
What exactly do you see here that offends you Rukais?
I lost IQ reading that.
There's no "debate". You play the game how you want to. If you let someone tell you how to play a character you design...well...maybe you shouldn't be playing this game at all.
In my case, I did an equal amount of levelling/aa'ing between 51-60. The result?
I dinged 59 and bought Paragon at the same time. I had a ton more HP's than any similarly equipped beastlord my level, and I was a MUCH greater contributor to groups. I could give a crap about being well known or respected on my server. They're not the ones paying for my account.
I'm not at ALL saying that "I" have the "best" way to do it, I'm saying that's how "I" did it, and that's all.
That being said, when I meet 65 beastlords who are "saving up" for paragon...it makes me feel like I'm a leg up on them, no matter what gear or flags they have.
So by this morons logic, my level 60 beastlord doesn't contribute as much to a group as some PL'd idiot who can't play his class to the fullest?
GOOD.
I would shoot myself if I took a game that seriously.
Quote from: TigheI lost IQ reading that.
You and me both. Good thing I got plenty to spare :)
Looks like I touched some nerves. I'll basically put my long theory into a few short sentences.
If you're wanting to get 65 and lots of AA's with the least time spent. Level to 65 the fastest way you can, then farm AA's in PoE or PoFire.
I average an AA every 30-45 min in an EP planar group or GoD xp camp. In BoT an AA about every 75 minutes.
If not, go about it your own way.
"If you're wanting to get 65 and lots of AA's with the least time spent. Level to 65 the fastest way you can, then farm AA's in PoE or PoFire. "
Shouldn't that be, level to 65 the fastest way you can, GET FLAGGED, then farm AA's in PoE or PoFire? I mighta just missed being handed elemental access upon dinging 65, but I'm pretty sure I spent months after PoP first came out trying to get into those blasted things lol. The real good advice is right here though...
"go about it your own way."
Amen. 8) To each their own...
I guess if you want to go stir crazy and tire of the game quickly this guide is okay, but I dare say I know no one who 'farms AAs' in the Plains day after day and night after night, in fact most 65's don't farm anything aside from loot to buy their spells, and most of those farm spots offer terrible AA XP for the level 65 player.
AAs, without a doubt, during a month period of normal play, when no 'AA farming' takes place comes quickest at level 60 - in fact 100 aa per month with an average 3 hr log time doing everyday player activities like farming plat or grouping is about average without even thinking about AAs.
I have several 65 toons on some have zoomed to 65 and some have stopped at 60, and without question when looking at overall AAs in terms of months the level 65 toons average 35-50 AAs per month while my 60 toons who have stopped (usually for 2 monthes on average) earned 100- 120 AAs per month.
In fact, I've never met a level 65 that ever did much better than 40-50, even throwing in his 'AA farming' which has a very short life span for anyone that does it- and it gets worse for those that raid a lot.
While at 60, and earning plat, your enjoy the fastest blue con kills in most farm locations, like for example AC, farming masks and swords and tunics for bazaar sales earns 3-4 AA nightly, whereas a 65 there earns hardly none, and if they venture into the castle where the mobs con blue it takes them 3 times as long to kill a single mob because of the enormously greater hitpoints on those mobs.
At 60, almost everywhere you go outside of raiding will garner simular results- whereas the level 65 is restricted to 'special situations' to intact good AAs, and dispite the forcoming claims those 'special situations' are more rare than common- no one, and I mean no one, 'farms AAs' for any length of time before quickly tiring of it- in reality other things always takes president- getting a full spell book, getting flagged, raiding- ect and at the end of the month those few times of AA farming don't stack up to what the level has managed.
I've proved this time and again with guildmates when playing alts, and when we both hit 60 I'd bet them where we'd both be in 6 months. He zoomed to 65 and I stayed 60 for 3 months- I had 312 AAs when I dinged 65, and he hadn't hit a 100. He had gotten side tracked farming for plat for spells, and raiding for equipment. I, on the other hand had my AAs come in when I farmed for that same plat at 60, and had a full spell book when I dinged- and was not forced to farm light blue cons for plat because I no longer had a need for it.
My time from then on was a mixture of LDON and raiding, and at the end of that 6 months I was running over 400 AAs and my partnered had yet to even hit 150.
So before anyone makes contrary claims, go back and figure out when you dinged 65, count the months and do the math- and dispite all the claims of "I can get 8AAs in PoT in a night" see exactly what you actually averaged, and chances are very good you too are in the 25-40AA per month range.
The only math I need is an AA every 30-45 min. Show me a place at level 60 where that can be done. That is my reason to never recommend going AA before 65.
HoH can be an AA every 45-60 Minutes, at level 65, and does not require EP.
AC compares to that especially once they start stacking up and your damage increases and your downtime disappears - I was achieving that easy.
like i said- do the math- your not doing 100AA a month at 65- no 65 does- and to prove it to yourself when did you ding 65 and how many AAs do you have- search past posts if your confused on the date- almost everyone proclaims when they ding 65 on the boards-
QuoteWhen I was looking for groups, I always tried to be the lowest in the group and tried to move to the next zone when I was at the lower level range required.
Haha, sounds like all the people I meet in places I solo, who are lower level than my pet and spam me for groups. I'd say 95% of the time they are just exp sponges who loot corpses before they hit the ground.
I meet those types quite often myself rofl- can't blame the poor saps, leveling in eq is painfully slow compared to most other online games- which is why I challenge the above advice-
It is always more efficient to kill as many birds as possible with one stone than just only one bird, which is why doing your AAs while you farm plat or group or quest is quicker than zooming to 65, having to AA grind and not get anything else done- and when you do go to do thoses other needed things have your AAs crawl.
At 60 AAs fly by as you farm for need upgrades, weapons and spells, thus it is far more efficient. At 65 you may find fast AAs in certain zones, but not much else- and like it or not those other things will need to be done-
and at the end of 6 months, or a year, or whatever extended time frame you want to look at- the guy who stopped and did all those things at one time will be sitting in a much better position than the guy who zoomed to 65 and had to kill only one bird at a time.
Not that I agree with the thread author, but ...
Quote from: ghostryder
like i said- do the math- your not doing 100AA a month at 65- no 65 does-
100AA a month at 65 isn't hard at all. Hell I could pull that soloing in Droga, let alone grouping in Earth / Fire ...
Neight
8aa a day in Earth is /shrug, so 100 a month if you have the time would be /shrugx2
Sure, but neither zone offers much else does it? Who really wants to set and grind AAs in some god aweful zone with crap loot and drops? Who wants to grind AAs at all? Not many sane people.
And that's the point- the zoom to 65s assume its a cake walk to 'grind AAs' when in reality it's torture. You've got a lot of other stuff going on other than AAs, many of it far more important-
Someone, who for example, is in a raiding guild will want the levels so he can raid- but with a full compliment of nightly raid buffs the only real AAs he's gonna worry about is paragon, and once he gets those he's off getting much needed raid drops-
It's not totally honest, nor practical, to tell someone to zoom to 65 to get fast AAs when the majority of people simply don't play like that at the high end.-
Staying at 60, and getting several things done and having the AAs roll in without haveing to 'grind AAs' in some lame loot spot in PoP and having the AA worries taken care of in 2 or 3 months leaves the 65 player open to do the more important things that he wants to do once he reaches that platue.
Plus, if AAs grinding is something that he wants to do, there's nothing stopping him from going into PoP at 60 either. But its so nice to have your plat worries over, you bazaar purches over and having a full spell book when you finally ding 65, and that can all be done in couple months at 60.
The number of people who manage to accomplish that in that short of time after zooming to 65 is rare- so rare I've yet met a single one in 5 years of play.
And I've already looked at all your profiles, you not one either:)
I've seen this argument from you before ghostryder, and I've been looking out, and all I can say is that you appear to be dead on.
From the standpoint of character power in time, the case can still be made to get to 65 as quick as possible, because the things done after reaching 65 may be just as important (or moreso) than getting AAs (such as raiding for equipment etc).
But from a pure AA # point of view, level 65s just don't seem to gain them that fast. I know people who do those 8-10 AA nights/days, but they do it once and then you don't hear about it again for a month and a half or so. Very few people continue to grind day in and day out after they've reached level 65.
It appears to be a simple case of the tortoise and hare. The level 60-62 is getting an AA or 2 each day, but the 65 gets a whole bunch and then goes and does other stuff. There's lots to do at 65 besides AAing, and it shows.
It's sorta interesting to watch IMO. My guild board has a roster which shows everyone's AAs and I can see it there.
It seems to me that this is a flawed argument. You're saying that a 60 beastlord who focuses on AAs gets more AAs than a 65 beastlord who doesn't focus on AAs. Well, duh. Of course they are different. Just because a 65 can have other things on their table doesn't mean that if they went into a pure AA mode that they'd make less. When you run an experiment you can't change half the factors and draw useful conclusions; you have to vary things only slightly. In this case, the only variable should be level.
So comparing the 60 and 65 beastlord, the 65 has a superior slow, haste pet, pet proc, buffs, etc. They have access to all the double-attack AAs, as well as some others vital ones (such as LR). The only real benefits I see the 60 beastlord having is that their dblue limit is 5 levels lower, and they will get an exp bonus for mobs above 55 (whereas the 65 only gets the bonus for mobs 60 and above). Based on those criteria, I think the 65 still has the ability to farm AAs faster, all other things being equal.
Game on,
Quote from: ghostryderSure, but neither zone offers much else does it? Who really wants to set and grind AAs in some god aweful zone with crap loot and drops? Who wants to grind AAs at all? Not many sane people.
I do it all the time. I'll join a guild group in Earth or Fire any time (nooo pickup groups). You make it sound as if once you ding 65, there's no fun left in the game. It all becomes a grind. Guess what; it's pretty much the same thing you did at 60, but this time you have the inherent bonuses that come from being a higher level character. What zones are not "god aweful [sic]" with spectacular loot and drops that you're grinding AAs in at 60?
If you think there's nothing left to do at 65 besides "grinding" AAs in some slum of Norrath, I'm really not sure why you're still playing. Raiding, grouping with friends/guildies, and soloing are all fun (for me anyway), and are done at 65 the same way they're done at 60.
Quote from: ghostryderSomeone, who for example, is in a raiding guild will want the levels so he can raid- but with a full compliment of nightly raid buffs the only real AAs he's gonna worry about is paragon, and once he gets those he's off getting much needed raid drops-
Yeah, that's one hell of a Beastlord. Who needs AAs besides Paragon? They're worthless on raids! MGB, /pet hold, LR5/ID5/ND3, SCR3, Mend Companion+HM, Suspend Minion2, PA/pet crits/flurries, Ambi, SS, BF5 ... yeah, all pointless.
Quote from: ghostryderIt's not totally honest, nor practical, to tell someone to zoom to 65 to get fast AAs when the majority of people simply don't play like that at the high end.-
They don't? There's always groups running in Earth/Fire, and for the non-elemental crowd, (god help me) BoT and PoV always have a good number of 65s in them. What is "totally honest" and "practical" is to tell people to play the game however the hell they want. I stopped and did a number of AAs at 54 and 62, and regret doing it, as I pull in AAs much faster now than I ever have. That said, I certainly don't hold anything against people who do want to work AAs early. I wouldn't call presenting some doomsday view of the 65 game "honest" either.
Neight
QuoteIt seems to me that this is a flawed argument. You're saying that a 60 beastlord who focuses on AAs gets more AAs than a 65 beastlord who doesn't focus on AAs.
No, Im saying at 60 there's no need to focus on AAs, they come natyrally as you focus on other things yuou need to get done- but if you wait til 65 you almost have to focus on AA grinding because they crawl for what most 65s are doing- and the focusing on the AAs is what you what to avoid.
Take 2 characters and one goes to 65 and one stays 60- each needs plat for spells- the one who farms that plat at 60 will get AAs will they do it, whereas the one at 65, now needing the same spells- must farm plat too- and you know what- they farm at the same exact camps and it takes them just as long but the 60 toon is getting 3 AA a night and the 65 toon is lucky to get a single blue bubble because the mobs con light blue-
both are at that camp a month or two- depending on the amount of plat needed, but the 60 has his plat plus AAs, and the 65 only has his plat-
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From the standpoint of character power in time, the case can still be made to get to 65 as quick as possible, because the things done after reaching 65 may be just as important (or moreso) than getting AAs (such as raiding for equipment etc).
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I agree with this. If your interested in pure power getting to 65 and in a raid position, then its the quickest way to power, no doubt about it, but if someone wants to get a full AA bank he better do it at 60 - at least for a couple months- or it probably won't happen because of other intersts, which is my main point-
My guild keeps AA track too, has upwards of 175 65 toons and that's pretty much where one can look at a glance to see the 25-40 AA average per month -
So although the claim looks good, and is basically correct on paper- in practice AAs at 65 poor in about the same rate they would for a 55 player on an average- 60 is the sweet spot- its the only level I've ever been able to walk away with 300 AA in the bank in 3 months without even thinking about it- though regrettably my main bought into the zoom theory and is still AA poor because of it- but not my alts- I never zoom up with them.
Of course this doesn't mean zooming to 65 is bad- there's a lot of other good reasons to decide to do it- but for AA intake staying 60 is always better.
[/quote]
Oneiromancer is dead on, the argument is flawed.
You are right that most 65's will not gain xp as fast as all that. The point is though they can get them faster. One Saturday I put 8 hours into Plane of Fire and came away with 17 aa's for my effort. The rest of the week I spent raiding and got some great loot from Plane of Time... which you can't get at 60. No "if"s of "but"s about it.
Being able to get aa's faster simply means that if you choose to focus on them, you can get aa's fasterthan you can at 60. I would also argue that Plane of Earth drops are not crap too. I'm sure a lot of Beastlords would like the PoE leather armour and or the Steel ring of earthern resilience. At the very least the drops sell for quite a lot and you can buy whatever you want from the bazaar.
What it comes down to is play style. If you want to be the best for your stage of the game then by all means stop and aa. But make no mistake, it is neither faster nor more effecient doing aa's at 60 than doing aa's at 65. It all comes down to what you enjoy more.
QuoteNo, Im saying at 60 there's no need to focus on AAs, they come natyrally as you focus on other things yuou need to get done- but if you wait til 65 you almost have to focus on AA grinding because they crawl for what most 65s are doing- and the focusing on the AAs is what you what to avoid.
I stopped actively grinding xp about half a year ago, that was with about 300 aas. Now i have 590 and just got the additional 290 aas by doing what i wanted to do without thinking about xp at all. So, aas come very naturally to me too, even raiding yields around 5-8 aas a week, having fun in some zones like kt or ikk one group trials yields even more, helping guildies getting kt flags is awsome xp as well. Nearly everything i do to have fun in this game (and believe me, i dont need to focus on plat) yields xp, so zooming to 65 and then just enjoying your life with all the additional power you get at 65 is just the most relaxed and easiest way to get aas and have fun in this game.
Focusing on aas was not as bad as it might sound, i got most of my points up to 300 having fun in poe or fire farming tradeskill stuff which in turn yielded several hundred k in plats.
Quote from: ghostryderTake 2 characters and one goes to 65 and one stays 60- each needs plat for spells- the one who farms that plat at 60 will get AAs will they do it, whereas the one at 65, now needing the same spells- must farm plat too- and you know what- they farm at the same exact camps and it takes them just as long but the 60 toon is getting 3 AA a night and the 65 toon is lucky to get a single blue bubble because the mobs con light blue- both are at that camp a month or two- depending on the amount of plat needed, but the 60 has his plat plus AAs, and the 65 only has his plat.
Well, my situation was very different. 61-62 spells were super cheap, except for Infusion of Spirit, and I got that one off of an Ethereal Parchment in my 50's some time. EPs are not hard to get for sure, and even if your luck is bad I never saw IoS for more than 1k. 63-64 spells are a different story, of course...but I found myself pretty welcome in BoT even without my 65 slow (something is better than nothing when no other choice is available) and I got several Spectral Parchments. The only SP spell I had to buy was Spirit of Sorsha. 65 Beastlord spells are also cheap on my server...I think I paid 7 or 8 k for each of them. And I was able to have that much saved up from just lucky drops in LDoNs or farming. So perhaps I am very atypical...but everything worked out very nicely for me and I never saw a reason to slow down levelling.
And by the way, a 60 beastlord and a 65 beastlord aren't going to spend exactly the same amount of time farming anyway...the 65 will kill a lot faster and so will spend less time getting sub-optimal experience for the same amount of money. There is a HUGE difference mowing through Seb now compared to when I tried in my high 50's. Velks I chain pull 2 or 3 at a time and can keep most of the upper levels cleared...and this was very soon after dinging 65, not now after 121 AAs. And with a kill rate that fast you WILL get noticeable AAXP from light blues. Not a lot, but it's visible. And when you fill up your bags 3x faster than the 60 beastlord you can go do something else which gives better experience.
Game on,
Well, luckily for us our spell layout plat wise isn't all that bad- we want our 64 pet, SD, but thankfully we really don't have the plat layout a cleric or a shaman does for instance.
Those two classes are looking at 200k up farming- and so It would probably be a lot better to stay at 60 to farm that plat- Used to be plane of growth was a sweet farm area a level 65 could enjoy- 15k worth of gems a session, but they changed the argo on the mobs now preventing that- so a good spot is still AC- where swords and masks average 10k up each , tunics about 6k and the robe about 5k (used to be more when the robe had a plate look- but now its just a robe graphics)
Camping and looting all areas is cake at 60, earns 3 to 4 AA a night (3 hrs) and 30k a day average if you get at least a couple drops (some luck here is involved- I've had duplicates of each some nights and none on some)
But for us beastlords we have a pretty good chance of getting our own spells while raiding- or if already in a guild a chance another beasty will offer up a spell at a decent cost-
But if a player hasn't entered a guild, it may be worth concidering earning a 200k in AC before leveling-if not only for spells but a few armor pieces he's not likely to upgrade quickly at first in a raiding guild like some ornate boots or a lodz shield-
here you can not only grab the needed plat- but your basics in AAs will be finished as well, along with the class AAs and when you do level now your only AAs you need to focus on are the PoP, GoD ones that were 62up-
So the AA slowdown isn't that big an issue while you raid- or do LDON -making life all the more sweeter at 65 to start.
To me, It's well worth stopping as the extra AAs and cash make less worries at 65, where I can enjoy raiding and doing whatever without having to worry about 'farming AAs to get paragon' or whatever your guild is asking or your wanting- you already got them at 60.
QuoteAnd by the way, a 60 beastlord and a 65 beastlord aren't going to spend exactly the same amount of time farming anyway...the 65 will kill a lot faster and so will spend less time getting sub-optimal experience for the same amount of money. There is a HUGE difference mowing through Seb now compared to when I tried in my high 50's. Velks I chain pull 2 or 3 at a time and can keep most of the upper levels cleared...and this was very soon after dinging 65, not now after 121 AAs. And with a kill rate that fast you WILL get noticeable AAXP from light blues. Not a lot, but it's visible. And when you fill up your bags 3x faster than the 60 beastlord you can go do something else which gives better experience.
Not true on all acounts- as you can see from my above posts I prefer AC for farming, and the primalist, ritualist, and so on spawn on a timer- and its the same spawn time whatever your level- The level 60 or 65 will be killing the exact same number of kills as well, as its easy even for a level 60 to keep both ritualist and primalist rooms and the hall clear as all mobs are on a 25 min timer. Deeper in is the same with the robe and swords drops, working both camps is easy for either level.
However, the 65 can venture into the castle and get the shaman boots, warrior mask and earring that'll give him a heads up in the bazaar but AA intake isn't all that great as the mobs die slow. (though its better than the mobs outside the castle)
At 62 mobs outside castle still offered pretty good AAs, tough they were light blue, but at 63 up AAs pretty much crawled- like a blue a night.
Quote3 to 4 AA a night (3 hrs)
I call utter BS on this.
Quote60 toon is getting 3 AA a night and the 65 toon is lucky to get a single blue bubble because the mobs con light blue-
Nothing light blue to a 65 is within the 5 level limit for an XP bonus from 60, so if the 60 got 3 AA, the 65 would get 1.5 AAs, assuming the exact same kill rate. Given how much quicker a 65 can kill...the only way this will happen is if you are some place where you are already killing every mob there, even at 60. Acrylia Caverns certainly does not qualify under this category...even if you are keeping the room you want and the hall near clear, go pull a little farther away while you wait.
Now I'm going to presume that you mean they light blue/green out, as opposed to just light blue...well go somewhere else! Quest drops in Droga sell for a ton in the bazaar, plus you will get faster XP in Droga as a 65 than you will in AC as a 60. At least if you claim a realistic rate of XP gain, as opposed to your BS number quoted above. And note, Droga and AC are hardly the only two places for this, but these are two of the more well known.
3 to 4 AAs in AC for a 60 character is not BS- I've done it with many alts over the years - and the drops in AC are far more common and valuable than those in Drogo- though if I was level 65 that's where I'd head-
The blue a night in AC is also from personal experience- and that AA bar barely moves- 1 blue bubble is accurrate.
If you have the alts try an hour in AC with both- or find a 60 level already in AC and do the comparrisons yourself-
Now for BS, the statement AAs come faster at 65 would qualify- because in actual play any level 65 isn't averaging near 100 AA a month- in fact his average is probably below 40AA.
That's not only from personnel experience, but looking at the profiles of a ton of level 65 players-
There's zone the 65 can go in that give terrific AA intake, but in actual gameplay that 65 player simply isn't in those places enough to up his overall average-
So in a given 6 month time, the player who stays 60 for 3 months and farms then goes to 60 will have his spells, his bazaar buys and over 300 in the bank-
The 65 player will like hae his spells and bazaar buys but only have about 120-150 AA in the bank in the same time- if he has more AAs from farming them (which I've never done in my play life) he's likely still lacking some spells or bazaar items as its really not possible for the 65 to kill 3 birds with one stone like the 60 player-
Argue the point all you want, but your own profile, and any others you care to look out bares it out-
There's a ton of reasons a player may want to get to 65, but AAs isn't one of them.
Quote from: ghostryder
and the drops in AC are far more common and valuable than those in Drogo
:lol:
Quote from: ghostryder
Now for BS, the statement AAs come faster at 65 would qualify- because in actual play any level 65 isn't averaging near 100 AA a month- in fact his average is probably below 40AA.
That's not only from personnel experience, but looking at the profiles of a ton of level 65 players-
There's zone the 65 can go in that give terrific AA intake, but in actual gameplay that 65 player simply isn't in those places enough to up his overall average-
Right; Earth, Fire, GoD sewers, KT ... always empty. Hell you could do 100AA a month in BoT, if you somehow were immune from the morons in the zone.
Quote from: ghostryder
So in a given 6 month time, the player who stays 60 for 3 months and farms then goes to 60 will have his spells, his bazaar buys and over 300 in the bank-
Or, you could do all your plat farming in less than a month at 65. Lord knows Spirit of Sorsha, Arag's/Rellic, SD, Celerity, IoS/Kragg/SV, Frost Spear, etc. would assist in farming, and none of them are expensive any more. Once you're sufficiently geared and have Revenge and Ferocity, farming AAs goes even quicker. Try leaving AC.
Quote from: ghostryder
if he has more AAs from farming them (which I've never done in my play life)
You're just plat farming and the AAs are a side-effect?
Quote from: ghostryder
There's a ton of reasons a player may want to get to 65, but AAs isn't one of them.
Hit 65 with your beastlord and venture out of AC. There's a whole world out there.
Neight
Well ghosty, you are 100%, the absolute FASTEST Beastlord soloer in existence. I actually DID solo this camp at 60 with Terjyn, and I didn't gain AA XP at even remotely the rate you are claiming. 3 hours per AA I'd buy. So I bow to your godlike skills, as you obviously are infinitely better than I am.
Frankly, your credibility is shot claiming that you gain that rate of AA at 60, in Acrylia Cavers, fighting low dark blues. That's faster than Wizards/Druids can quad kite XP at those levels. The only person who might be able to attain that rate of AA gain at those levels soloing is a bard who is swarm kiting...and I'm not convinced of that.
QuoteArgue the point all you want, but your own profile, and any others you care to look out bares it out-
This just shows how weak your position is. You have *NO IDEA* how long I was level 65, nor what I did prior to leveling to 65, yet you are trying to use me as an example of your lunacy? Spare me.
Put up or shut up. Show us your Magelo so we can all stare in Awe at your 600 AAs at level 60.
This whole thing boils down to simple math. XP per mob is based off the mob's level squared, while AA XP is a constant. Killing higher level mobs slower gives faster AA, unless it's a whole LOT slower. High Con bonus is a linear multiplier as well, and hardly applies to mobs which go light blue at level 63.
You cannot twist out of it by using things such as "motivation" and "desire", because frankly that's ludicrous. A 60 will lose their drive to solo in AC same as a 65 will in Droga. During the time they have their motivation, given that the time is equal, the 65 will crank out more XP, thus more AA.
There's nothing fast about an AA per hour in AC - nor is it hard to achieve- and I seriously doubt you actually were that much below that unless you were AA naked with no mana regens or focus items and had serious downtime.
6 - 8 kills is a blue, which is once around one room- do the hall and the other room and your halfway there- one repop the 2 rooms and hall will get the the half - concidering a 25 min repop if your keeping the room clears this should happen every 50 min- course there's rebuffs so the extra 10 min in the hour is a good blanket-
As for your profile- its all over the place- from here or the other beast boards -
I don't use Magelo - and besides I zoomed to 65 with my main who is AA poor because of it.
My alts- however- who have stopped at 60 each had over 300AA before 65 , in about 3 months - which simply doesn't happen at 65-
look at any guild site who keeps track of AAs- there's dozens out there- and see if you can find any 65 doing better than 40 per month-
To here you guys talk about 8 AA per session you all should be doing 240 per month-
Sorry, I'm 65 too and I know how they play out in actual gameplay- and they suck at 65.
Quote from: ghostryder
6 - 8 kills is a blue,
6-8 a blue ?
so that's about 175 kills for an AA. Under 60 min, that's mean 20s between 2 pulls. They have something like 6k hp.
So you're saying that at level 60, you can dish out more than 300dps consistency during 3 hours ?
Maybe you meant 1yellow AA/an hour ?
This whole argument is kind of funny to me. It's kind of like someone saying that they prefer Phyllis Diller over Angelina Jolie in the dark just because they think Phyllis *feels* better to them. How do you argue with a person like that? :lol:
Alky summed it up perfectly, ghostryder has proved himself to be a flat out liar. You are NOT killing 175 monsters per 45 minutes to an hour, which is the pace you'd have to to match your original claim. FFS you'd be clearing more than the entire area outside the castle(And I mean zone in towards burrower + everything from zone in to castle) to kill that many monsters per repop.
People don't do AAs at 65 that fast because they don't WANT to.
This has precisely ZERO to do with your claim that they *CAN'T*. And if you don't see the difference you are an idiot.
Although it's funny. There are only a few hundred Beastlord AAs worth even bothering to buy, call it 400. By Ghost's logic anybody who's been a level 65 for more than 10 months is automatically gaining AA at a rate slower than his mythical one at 60, simply by virtue of longevity...and there is nothing they can do to change it, as they've been level 65 too long. Pure lunacy.
By the way, I was level 60 *longer* than I was level 65, and I gained 24 AAs at 60, 2 each from 61-64, and 46 at level 65. Why might this be? In less time I got nearly double the number of AAs! And, as already stated, part of that 60 killing was in Acrylia Caverns, the very zone you continue to lie about...either to yourself or others.
The reason your 65 AA rate doesn't match your 60 AA rate is your 60 AA rate is a lie, pure and simple.
If I wasn't EP flagged and could do it all over again, I would have paused at level 60 and went to town in Velks on the spiders with SoF on my pet and soloed a million aa's.
Okay maybe not a million, but I can tell you the exp there at level 60 for aa's was fantastic.
Trying to weasel my way into higher groups was never an issue and I did rush my way to 65. I played a paladin for 57 levels first and I played that char almost 2 1/2 years. Nox here is 1.5 years old and has 167 aa's and is time flagged.
I missed a ton of content with him in the quest to get to 65 asap.
Don't rush it, don't use this guide and have some fun without being perceived as an uneducated player.
Nox
Excellent posts Noxdown- you've summed it up-
But let's me make myself clear- I never said it wasn't possible for a level 65 to get AA intake like a level 60- what I said was once you turn level 65 your not in that situation long enough in actually gameplay to do it- in other words a 65 can, but never does - mainly because of other interests-
What's 'possible' is not as relevant as what's 'likely' . You can say to a person get 65 because it's 'possible' to get good AA intake overall or you could be more accurate and say it's possible but its unlikely because most of your overall time will have you at AA poor spots- be it camping, leveling, raiding, farming-
I think some of you have a math problem-and a convinent memory of how AAs play out at 60, or most of you have never stopped for any length of time at 60- but overall nothing at 60 in AC outside the castle has 'tons of hitpoints'- that comes in at 65 and inside the castle- like most mobs the 65 ends up killing that are blue to him at 65-
My 65 has been inside the castle numerous times fighting and no way on gods green earth, you active imaganations or paper number crunching did he ever get close, or even to half the intake my 60 toons enjoyed outside the castle = and it's not just in AC as mentioned earlier- velks and myraid of other spots have excellent AA intake- which can only be matched by a 65 in PoP zones, in certain spots and under certain circumstances - and no way in the world does the 65 stay at any for any length of time for it to ammount to equal AA intake the 60 toons enjoy everywhere they go.
And that's the difference- how you play determines you AAs, not what looks good on paper or what's 'possible' . And how most 65's actually play they all would have been better off stopping for a while at 60.
Nox didn't sum up anything, his/her point wasn't even remotely related to yours, other than to say "Slow down and smell the roses as you level", which still isn't remotely similar to your bullshit claims that a 65 can't just go AA like a 60 can.
Quoteoverall or you could be more accurate and say it's possible but its unlikely because most of your overall time will have you at AA poor spots- be it camping, leveling, raiding, farming-
This is a prime example of your complete and utter bullshit. You can just as easily go AA at 65 as you can at 60. Why won't you admit this? Just because people choose not to doesn't mean they can't, or that it is even unlikely. Conversely, a level 60 can just as easily go camp, raid, or farm stuff. As a matter of fact, what you are describing is camping/farming. Note that claiming a 65 is off leveling is humorous to say the least.
Post a level 60 XP gaining log in Acrylia Caverns or admit that you are lying. At first I thought you were just exaggerating, but by your own posting you say you take 6-8 kills per blue...which gives a rate of killing of 3 mobs per minute. *THREE MOBS PER MINUTE* Do you understand how much of a liar this makes you look like? Beastlords can't *EVER* solo three XP mobs per minute past about level 10. Very well twinked a little further, but at level 60? Why do you think nobody is backing you up on your XP rate at 60? Find me one person who believes your rate. I'd bet money Nox won't claim an AA per 45 minutes at level 60 even if s/he would stop there to AA if they had to do it again.
Look up the Logical Fallacy
Burdon of Proof. It's clear that you are failing this at the moment.
Claims like yours about AA at 60 are prime examples of why people think Beastlords are overpowered and need to be nerfed. And if you really could do that at 60 we would be overpowered at that level and in desperate need of a 60ish nerf.
QuoteThis is a prime example of your complete and utter bullshit. You can just as easily go AA at 65 as you can at 60. Why won't you admit this
First, I don't go AA anywhere- you keep putting words in my mouth that I say level 60's go 'AA hunt' - nonesense- At 60 there is NO NEED. They come as you do other things-
The 65 HAS TO GO AA to do what the level 60 doesn't even have to think about-
In your plan you zoom to 65, then have to go farm plat, then go farm AAs, which all take away what you really should be doing at 65-
A person that stops will never EVER have to grind AAs-
I can do an AA in PoF (tables) every 25 mins with the right group or about every 35-40 mins tops in a good PoE shelf group.
I was banging off an aa an hour and a half in velks solo on the "top shelf" usually clearing the entire area before repops on both top levels.
Now I was above average geared from playing the bazaar and selling off a ton of gear given to me by retired players as well.
My point was is this:
You don't need to be 65 in order to accomplish something in EQ, so rushing to 65 was bad advice.
If I were non-EP flagged and was looking at easy experience for aa's I would do the level 60 and fill my boots on AA's in Velks until I decided that i wanted to venture into the idiot infested waters of BoT and such. ( playing with people that follow guides like the one that started this thread)
Too many people never learn the maximum capabilites of their char, they are NOT taking time to learn it the game inside and out before they risk the health of others in zones that can kill a toon in seconds like BoT and Ep areas.
I am shocked by the amount of people that are blown away by the fact that I can offtank by moving myself and my warder in and out of agro until the main mob dies. You don't learn that unless you solo and learn your char.
Most of those people have never had a three pull of dark blues solo to hone their skills and for that they will never be as good as the ones that have.
Nox
also, I know my average hunting time online- (3hrs) and I know how many AAs I have when I log (3-4) So say its not so all you want- but your full of BS- I know what I do in a night- have done it for years- and I also know what my level65 averages-- as well as everyone else around me and the 65 averages about 1/3 the AA of a level 60 - everywhere I look, everyone I observe and every roster I view-
AAs do not move while raiding- AAs are poor in most solo situations because the mobs that are blue to a 65 take forever to kill compared to blue conning mobs a 60 can kill- so the solo 60 will always outdo the level 65 in that situation- so it really doesn't matter where each farm plat solo- the 60 is doing better in AA-
The ONLY time my 65 logs with near the AA of an alt 60 toon of mine is under special group conditions in PoP, and only in certain zones- and I can count in a year on one hand how often that happens-
QuoteThe ONLY time my 65 logs with near the AA of an alt 60 toon of mine is under special group conditions in PoP, and only in certain zones- and I can count in a year on one hand how often that happens-
That is just your personal case then, farming plat/tradeskills/whatever gets me like one aa every 35-40 minutes easy in ele or god zones in groups or 45-50 minutes solo in lower tiers. If i wanna grind xp (wich also yields plat and ele like loot) i would xp in yxtta or kt, bot getting me an aa under 20 minutes in the right group (so your average 3 hour platime would yield around 9 aas). The fact that i dont grind xp just doesnt have anything to do with my level, it is purely based on the fact that there are not many usefull aas after you get the first 500.
You make one aa per hour at level 60?
Three quick questions:
1) Your mana pool at 60 and flowing thought level?
2) Your hp's and ac?
3) Your weapons?
I had just over 1 million pp worth the gear back then and I took 50% longer per aa than you.
This with WLK and Rujarkian knuckles, 36% haste, SoV, C3,Pot9 and full raid buffs putting me at about 4k hp's with just a hair over 1k ac. Pet toys equipped and sometimes 2 boxing a cleric for low downtime.
To give you an idea of todays experience, I made 7 aa's on Saturday in 4 hours. This was in PoF at tables and included going to PoK to refresh c5 when it faded and running back.
I am really curious how you compare equipment wise to where I was and what zone you can pull off one aa an hour solo.
I said it is feasable to make good aa's at 60,but the claims of Ghostryder seem totally unrealistic and I would hate to see someone think that is normal.
Two aa's in a level 60 scenario every 3-4 hours makes sense.
3-4 in 4 hours sounds like a pipe induced dream.
Nox
Mkay, my English is not very good but I've re-read this
Quote from: ghostryder
6 - 8 kills is a blue, which is once around one room- do the hall and the other room and your halfway there- one repop the 2 rooms and hall will get the the half - concidering a 25 min repop if your keeping the room clears this should happen every 50 min- course there's rebuffs so the extra 10 min in the hour is a good blanket-
.
and it really seems to me that you're talking about 1 yellow AA / hour, not a full AA. Which is more like what i remember about AC.
I had a full scale post but this stupid board ate it somehow, so I'll sum up briefly.
At level 65, I never once "went to AA". I did what I enjoyed, and AAs just came...and I got 46 of them, in less time then when I was level 60 and did the same thing, to only get 24.
The one thing I could *NEVER* stand in EQ was experience grinding.
So, my question...how do I fit into your narrow view of the world ghost? Am I purely an aberration?
And, your XP rate is a myth. You "Know" how many AAs you started and how many you quit with and how much XP you gained, the same way that Nunyabizz "Knew" that Agility affects AC tremendously and the same way that people "know" that Beastlords outtank monks. Perception is flawed...if you have no hard numbers you have nothing. It'd be easy to come into a night 95% of an AA in, and leave at 5% "three" AAs later in 4 hours and say "Hey! I got 3 AA in 4 hours" when in reality you got 2.1 AAs in four hours, which is a much more believable number.
*EDIT* Actually, I have one more question. You keep mentioning Acrylia Caverns. What do you do when your place in AC is taken?
The one thing I could *NEVER* stand in EQ was experience grinding.
So, my question...how do I fit into your narrow view of the world ghost? Am I purely an aberration
Quote
My view is not a narrow one- if zooming to 65 is what you wanted to do, and it got you to the place you wanted to be, and you enjoyed yourself then I say good for you for playing how you want to play. There's no way my way is going to better than your way if your way is what you enjoy- but don't claim AA intake is greater at 65-
Think about it, a single blue kill in AC will grant a level 60 about 1%. How long do you think it takes a 60 to kill a mob? A minute? I'd say even the worse equiped beast in the game would take down 3 grimlings in a minute- so reaching an AA an hour is pretty easy-
Of course a lot depends how one feels that nigh- or as you've said, what camp is available- I may go afk to fix a drink or grab a snack, or if both front rooms aren't available I'll usually go in past the skellys and work the robe drop off the stairs or the 2 sword drops in the Alar room, or both if they are open.
I've never seen all camps taken but I suppose if I was restricted to just the grimlin room with the primalist- and the two small off rooms with the bugs I'd be restricted to the 8 spawn in the main room, the 4 bugs on the right with the 3 grimlings and the 4 bugs on the left, which would end up being 19 spawns which would put a major hamper on AA intake but that's never happened to me- the nice thing about AC and why I perfer it is its mostly an empty zone-
however, you could use velks or any simular zone- and at 60 its not going to take anyone a minute to kill a spider- it won't take half that- in fact 4 a minute would be about right- and at that rate even if it took 2 kills to equal 1% (which it doesnt) it wouldn't take longer than 50 minutes to reach an AA-
The problem with 65 and the blue cons one must solo is it's very likely a single fight will last much longer- they don't drop as fast- near as fast - in fact they drop rather slow hence the poorer AA intake-
Even in a quick LDON mission that takes 30 minutes you haven't really killed enough mobs to equal an AA (I average about 60% per mission at 65) and some of those missions take almost the full tme-
Now, I've, like many here, have enjoyed tremdous AAs in the PoP zones mentioned at 65, but I don't spent a lot of time in them nor does anyone else.
Quote from: ghostryder
Now, I've, like many here, have enjoyed tremdous AAs in the PoP zones mentioned at 65, but I don't spent a lot of time in them nor does anyone else.
Once again, I'd like to point out that Earth and Fire are never empty. Ditto for Bastion of KC.
Neight
Quote from: ghostryder
Think about it, a single blue kill in AC will grant a level 60 about 1%. How long do you think it takes a 60 to kill a mob? A minute? I'd say even the worse equiped beast in the game would take down 3 grimlings in a minute- so reaching an AA an hour is pretty easy-
You're saying I can take down a grimling in 20 seconds, and fight non-stop?
Tell me the secret there. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but w/ c3, pot9, paragon and FT7, I'm averaging about 50 seconds/mob at 60 with WLK/Epic, using venom of the snake, and cycling the 450/300 nukes.
I couldn't kill those grimlings at 65 in 20 seconds. Don't give me the "think about it" argument, post some LOGS. Hell, go show me that you can mow them down at a rate of about 10 seconds per at level 65 and I might give you some credibility, because regardless of XP rate your 65 DPS is at least approaching double your 60 DPS.
Honestly, are you using Church minutes or something? 4 spiders per minute? 3 grimlings per minute?
And Velketors labyrinth isn't going to get you the money you claim.
Your entire argument is based around one zone where you can gain lots of money and "lots of XP". You are cherry picking one instance and generalizing it to apply to everybody in all situations. All other zones either aren't worth the money, or are still dark blue(or even partially light blue, like Nurga) at 65 and you WILL gain XP faster in those zones at 65 soloing than 60.
I think you guys are missing the point. Everyone knows that XP comes faster at 65 if you are grinding for XP. The point is that people rarely grind for XP for days at a time when they are 65.
So, his argument is that running around and doing whatever it is that you normally do - if you did that stuff at 60 you would end up with more AAs than if you did it when you were 65 (assuming you were set at 100% AA xp).
It's mostly behavioral. Saying you will get more AAs at 65 than at 60 is not necessarily true - what you mean to say is that you CAN get more AAs at 65.
Most of the people I've watched bear this out. It's certainly not a hard and fast rule, but it does seem to be true most of the time.
Now I know there is a part of ghost's arguement that says there may be sweet spots where you can actually grind faster as well, but I'm not sure about that (just no experience doing much of that).
I know what his point is. It is flawed.
Unless you raid heavily, XP will naturally come faster at level 65, no matter what you do. Money hunting? XP comes faster (unless you insist that the only good money to be had anywhere is outside castle Acrylia Caverns, another of his apparent claims). XP grinding? Absolutely comes faster. Greenie farming? Neither gets XP at all...but the 65 does it faster. Grouping? No doubt, the 65 gains faster. And even a 60 who raids will gain slower XP than a 65 who raids, if they do it the same amount.
Yes, 65's don't grind for XP for days. Neither do 60s. The difference is he somehow claims that a 65 doesn't get XP unless they are actively trying to grind XP, whereas at 60 XP just comes. That is unadulterated BS, even ignoring his ludicrous "3 kills per minute".
Quoteif you did that stuff at 60 you would end up with more AAs than if you did it when you were 65
This is exactly the problem I have with what he says. Unless you raid heavily, it is simply not true. I never raided with Terjyn, thus I gained AA much faster at 65 not-raiding just doing my thing than I did at 60. He tells me this isn't possible. He's wrong.
OK, but I don't raid much either, and I don't know what I was doing different, but I had about 40 AAs hanging around level 60 and 62 for about 2 months. After I reached 65, I averaged maybe 1-3 AAs a week.
Virtually every other person I've watched has done the same thing (in terms of slowing down after 65). Maybe it's the frenzy to xp before 65 and the calm down after it's reached, I don't know. But from a higher perspective of just watching AA levels this seems to be true.
OK, too anecdotal to say anything concrete. Maybe my sample is too small. There are certainly cases where xp definitely comes faster at 60 (full group exploring Droga - I've done this at both levels and the xp is much faster when you are killing yellows with the group, as opposed to blues when you are 65), maybe my friends and I just happen to do the right activities.
QuoteI averaged maybe 1-3 AAs a week
I average higher than that from just raiding.
At 65, even playing relatively casually, you can easily do 5-10 aa a week.
I think you summed it up actually Hrann. People who are AAing at 60 are doing so with a semi-rush, knowing that they want to get to 65. Those at 65 don't feel this pressure, so they slow down.
If you don't have this rush at 60, or continue to play at 65 the way you did at 60, you *WILL* gain XP faster, even if you don't grind. This is all I've ever really tried to say, and yet Ghost keeps telling me that it's just not possible to play this way at 65. You cannot classify anecdotal evidence, nor can you classify "desire" and "motivation". I said this like 6 posts ago.
I'm not, and never have been, arguing based on "desire" and "motivation". I'm arguing based on math, and the math is clear...the 65 "wins" at XP.
If ghost's argument is just "If you can't work up the desire to play at 65 the way you can at 60, then you won't gain AA as fast" then I cannot argue with that...as it's true but irrelevant to the greater issue, as you cannot peg people based on motivation.
I played exactly the same way at 65 as I did at 60. I was 60 for about 4 months. I was never much of a soloer, but I gained 24 AAs "doing my thing" in 4 months of real life time. When I hit 65, I kept playing just as I had been, and I gained 46 AAs in 3 months of real life time, before I retired. My play style didn't change, I didn't relax anymore, and thus my AA rate didn't suffer by hitting level 65...in fact it went way up...even when I was soloing. I gained about 10 AAs solo at 60, mostly in Acrylia Caverns and Nurga. I gained about 25 AAs solo at 65, mostly in Grieg's End, Droga, and Nurga.
Well, I know what Ghost is trying to say, and it's obvious he's not going to relent...so I think I give up. I still think he's full of it on the 45-60 minutes per AA at level 60 though. :P
PS - I've never stated in all of this that I absolutely believe in slowing down your leveling to "smell the roses"...I was 60 for 4 months, and saw a whole lot of zones.
QuoteI average higher than that from just raiding.
At 65, even playing relatively casually, you can easily do 5-10 aa a week.
The key word there is relatively. I don't consider someone who plays every day to be casual. I don't consider someone who plays all weekend casual. In any other hobby, spending 10+ hours a week on something would hardly be called casual. (OK, I realize we sometimes use that word in the EQ sense to mean a non-raider.)
I play when I get a chance, which means I MAY go on during the week sometime, or not. On the weekend I'll usually try to get on Saturday or Sunday morning, or both if I have free time. If my wife goes shopping without me or something, I may go on then. That's about it, and it equals 1-3AAs a week in general.
Starting sometime around March of 1998, I played an awful lot, definitely more than casually. After about 8 months of that, I realized it wasn't as fun for me as playing once in a while in a casual way, so I stopped playing like that.
I'm right there with you Hrann. Most people would scoff at 24 AAs in 4 months even if it was at level 51, much less 60.
As a matter of fact, during a lot of weeks I spent more time reading EQ-related boards than I did actually playing the game. :)
The board is harder to leave than the game is! :twisted:
I think Hrann has said what i've been trying to say all along-
AAs slow at 65 because of behaviour-
myself and what I do with my 65 toons is totally different than my goals for my 60's toons-
Which is why I'm farming plat at 60- here 'm looking to loot as many masks or tunics or whatnot to get that bazaar stuff, that weapon, or whatever-
At 65 I don't care about farming plat - I've bought everything there is to buy and I need upgrades only raiding can provide, or LDON (like the weapon) so I'm doing that-
In practice AAs are not even my goal, thee something that happens on the side, and in every case just about my 60 always logs with twice or three times the AAs as my 65's-
But at 65 what do I really care- I mean my stats are maxed anyhow, all the decent AAs I want are in and whatever I'm sinking them in now I could take or leave- my main focus now are hitpoints and AC, afterall, and the AAs that gave me the HPs have been done long ago- and I've got all FT items up to the cap limit-
But at 60 boy those ornate boots are a goal, as well as a good weapon, having my AAs in on the mana and HP regens, Hitpints overall and damage and avoidance.
In AC at 60 I'm not yet enjoying a FT5 item but those grims at 60 require little to no pet healing anyway- all I need is to produce a slow per kill, and yes, taking a grimling down in 20 seconds is about normal-
I can clear both front rooms and the hall in the 25 minutes respawn to work both camps and that kill rate would have to be accurrate to pull that off-
The reason I mostly fluncuate between 3 or 4 AAs is mainly due to how I feel that night and how distracted I am. I might be chatting with guildmates, for instance , and not be on top of every spawn, or screwing around with snacks, or simply tired and unfocused-
But the nights the game has my full attention I'm standing on a spawn spot before the grimling has even popped, and the AAs fly by.
I've camped the mobs in the castle just as often with my 65 beast as well- usually helping someone out on the great earring that drops inside or the shaman boots on the balcony- and those mobs drop much slower- and my AA intake is not that great simply because of the much extra time it takes me to kill those castle mobs- and I am raid equiped at that-
As for Velks- I used that as it was mentioned, not because I like velks- I would never pick velks as a farm camp- nor any other type of camp- I hate the place. It's the type of overcrowded zone I avoid at all costs, but there no denying those spiders offer great AAs for a level 60.
Ghost,
While I somewhat agree with you in that stopping at 60 and doing some AA's can be very rewarding and fun I am extremely skeptical about your AAXP rates.
I was in Acrylia exclusively from level 57-60 (currently level 61). Great loot, great fun, great xp. At 60 I started doing aa's. It initiallly took me approximately 3 hours / aa. With the extra cash from acrylia and named drops and runes and such, I was able to upgrade some equipment (actually a LOT of equipment :), which increased my dps. I also increased my dps through AA's. I did 28 aa's there at level 60. My end time for aa's was just over 2 hours each (like 2:02 or something :)
I cannot see how this aaxp time (2 hours per aa) could be drastically improved upon. Additional AA's would help, so I could see beating my time, but again not by much. Even if you discount pull times (i.e. fighting at spawn points) you still have to take time to loot. With that, it would be difficult to sustain a kill rate of more then 1 mob per minute. This would equal 60 mobs per hour which at almost 1% per mob would net you about 50% aaxp in an hour.
By my estimate, the mobs have approximately 5k HP (someone correct me if they know better, but I know my 450point DD almost drops them by 10%). Dropping one in 20seconds means you are doing 250dps at level 60!
Anyway, just wanted to post to let others know that this is still a great aaxp spot at 60 (and a great xp spot from 57-60) solo. A great way to get some fast AA upgrades and some great equipment upgrades (through bazaar cash mostly).
I'm going to ask one more time because I'm a glutton for punishment.
Ghost, do you still play? Do you have a 65 Beastlord?
If so, please go post logs of you killing grimlings every 10 seconds...sustained...for a half hour. Should be simple, yet you seem to refuse to do so.
I don't know what your perception of time is, but I 100% absolutely guarantee you are NOT killing Grimlings every 20 seconds at level 60. At level 60 I'd be amazed if you could "chat with guildmates and friends" and maintain a pace of 1 per minute.
57 is the time to o to AC for sure, mainly because it's the level that it's possible to single pull- and though the AAs will slow some if you ding 61 because the mobs light blue out it was still decent AAs through 62-
for some reason after that, why I'm not sure, but at 63 up they barely move-
Do I still play? Not too frequently now and when I do its an alt on FV-
and if I did log my 65 AC is not a place I'd take him- unless I was, as mentioned, helping someone go after a drop in the castle or perhaps help in retrieving a corpse or showing them the hidden exits ect if they were concidering camping there-
At 57-62 though, especially with loot in mind- AC is an excellent camp-and yes as the AAs mount up down time shrinks of course- if your having trouble with killing the grimlings fast then my guess is your not using the correct weapons and pet placement- the key to killing the grimlings, especially the healers, is interrupts- the pet behind and the proc on your weapons will determine whether they get a heal off, which is a complete heal by the way- and also pulling stratedy so no other grims are healing-
those that are warriors have the most HPs, and the sk/necros go down the fastest-
After you have your strategy down and learn which are which and of course are correctly equiped and have at least the mana AAs with perhaps a soltice earring and the FT3 boots your only concern is your health regen, where I've had the most luck with lifetap procs on my weapons-a wlks and epic is a bad combination IMHO- the epic has a 41% haste and not a lot of damage-the wlks is okay but the LDON weapon with lifetaps aug and a wlks and the 36% haste belt will not only up you DPS but also again will elimate any need to back off and heal yourself in a fight- and if the rest of your armor gives you 1100 or so AC there's no need to ever stop to heal or regain mana- these mobs only hit for 90-100 and with decent resists spells are resisted if any spells are cast at all with proper pet placement.
correctly done both front camps and the entrance and hall can indeed be kept clear- that's roughly 40 plus grimling s plus bugs- adding to plus 80 mobs in 50 minutes- which give more than 1%- which will ding an AA-
Mages actually are better at these two camps, and I've seen necros do a fantastic job-
furthur in the steps and alter room can be worked as well- it concists of killing the 12 static grims in the alter room (the name spawns on the rug looking across the lava, who drops a 1hE and 2hE swords worth 8k-14k)the 2 wandering grims- 4 in the hall, 6 skellys on the steps, a couple bugs then the 8 grims on the steps in front of the false door (the one closest to false door is the PC for the robe and gloves) which is an easier camp as there's more room to work and few venture that far in unless headed to the castle-however the large room outside has many mobs to again get 40 in 25 minutes before the repop- and again the 1 AA in less than an hour-
edit: one note of caution for going in the castle- I've seen countless groups completely wipe in castle if any member in the group is below 57. Seems if that's the case your argo the whole castle on a pull. Also its very possible to go in the castle at 57 but where come in has 4 wandering mobs, and one is a PC for a named - and all named in castle hit for 400 plus- so 62 up is much better has that pet can handle an add while your likely have to run with the 60 pet-however, if timed right the named by the cages can be worked for a very nice earring my beasty still is wearing at 65- and once by the cages the grims in the cages don't argo so a 57 can concievably work the PH plus the 2 wanderers and door guards pulling to the cages's room with little worry of getting in trouble- though getting there can be a challenge alone)
Ghost, you appear to know the zone very well. I don't have a Magelo profile, but my equipment is not an issue.
The healers almost never get off a CH because my pet procs or my slam interrupt them constantly. I never have to heal myself, my fungi and high AC take care of that for me.
My weapons are a Dedgerex Cudgel and Waning Light Katar. The grimlings drop very fast. Pet is always in the rogue position. Still, you claim to kill more than seems possible based on my experience.
In one of your posts you claimed to be able to kill one every 20 seconds. In the post above you say 80 mobs in 50 minutes (I thought the repop on these guys is 28 minutes by the way, not 25, but I would have to time it to be certain). 80 mobs in 50 minutes is one ever 37.5 seconds. Quite a bit of difference from one every 20 seconds. And I still maintain that it would be almost impossible to loot and maintain that pace.
Finally, the Grimlings do not all give over 1% once you hit 60. At 60 about 1/3 are light blue and I know I have killed one and not gone up a percent in AAXP meaning they give less than 1%. I'll have to go back and log the number of kills I can now handle at 61, but at 60 I'm pretty sure I was killing approximately 60 mobs in 60 minutes and getting 50% aaxp for that. That means you have to kill 120 mobs to get a full AA, not 80.
Once again, just to clarify, Ghost is right in that Acrylia is a great place to fight solo. You get it all there (xp, vendor loot, bazaar loot, named) !!! But don't go there as an average Beastlord and expect to get more than an AA every 2 hours. That's all I could pull off and I think my equipment is pretty decent.
Indeed, that's almost double the amount of time per that you were claiming prior.
However, you suddenly say that all give more than 1% AA per, when earlier you were claiming 5-8 per blue (< 1% per).
However, as to you agreeing with Hrann, that basically means you really are saying "If you can't muster the will to play at 65 like you can at 60, then you won't get AA as fast", however you can replace any two levels 51+ with that and get the same answer. This is still the problem I've had with the claim since the beginning.
I'll say this one last time...you cannot peg people based on "motivation" and "desire", then claim it can be applied universally. It cannot.
Of course nothing is absolute- people play different of course, have differrent goals ect- All i'm saying is AA intake for most I see, including myself, everyone in my guild I pay attention to (it's a large guild but my inner group of friends) almost everyone's AA intake slows a lot overall at 65-
And again, when solo the 60 will outpace the 65 in AA as well, as in a situation such as AC, where the 60 is outside the castle and the 65 is inside the castle-
but as mentioned it's rare for a 65 to even go there unless after a certain drop- and that's not usually for cash but to perhaps get it for a friend (most lvl65's have little need for cash if they raid)
Overall raiding, getting flagged or camping for key components (like in SR temple) is not only terrible AA experience but probably ammounts to at least 50 percent of a 65's time.
But of course, if someone ignores raiding and getting flagged, lives in PoE inner or somewhere his intire 65 career then the original statement of AAs come faster at 65 would hold true-
course that has to be one rare and bored player I've yet come across-
20 sec's, 37 secs or whatever the number crunching grims do give over 1% and do not light blue til 61- at 60 all are still dark blue- the above poster is incorrect- and is probably measuring his AAs at 61 when they start to slow down (but are still decent) and yes, 2 rooms and the hall will give enough mobs on 2 cycles for an AA-
Quotegrims do give over 1% and do not light blue til 61- at 60 all are still dark blue- the above poster is incorrect
I feel qualified to refute that as I spent a large portion of earning 91 AA soloing AC at 60 (was waiting for friends to level alts). Thanatos is correct in stating ~1/3 are light blue at 60 and your average BST is going to get 1AA for 2 hours. In contrast I can roughly do the same rate in Nurga at 65.
Quote from: ghostryder20 sec's, 37 secs or whatever the number crunching grims do give over 1% and do not light blue til 61- at 60 all are still dark blue- the above poster is incorrect- and is probably measuring his AAs at 61 when they start to slow down (but are still decent) and yes, 2 rooms and the hall will give enough mobs on 2 cycles for an AA-
I am definately correct in stating that some Grimlings go light blue at 60. I half toyed with the idea of dropping back down to 59, figuring I may be able to increase my AAXP per hour by fighting all dark blues. However, with all the power upgrades we get at 60, it just wasn't worth it.
Your arguement just lost a lot of force. If you have done all the AA's you said you have in Acrylia at 60, then you wouldn't make the mistake of thinking that all the grimlings are still dark blue.
And at 60, I"ve cleared the hall, the ritualist room, and the primalist room (not always the bugs though). You get approximately 50% from two clearings (1 hours worth of work), so 4 cycles for an AA (2 hours), not 2 cycles (1 hour). Maybe you were much more Uber than I was at 60, but I doubt it because I have most of the high end bazaar gear and a whole bunch of tribute (41% haste, fungi, DFC, etc...)
QuoteI feel qualified to refute that as I spent a large portion of earning 91 AA soloing AC at 60 (was waiting for friends to level alts). Thanatos is correct in stating ~1/3 are light blue at 60 and your average BST is going to get 1AA for 2 hours. In contrast I can roughly do the same rate in Nurga at 65.
I'm not interested in spitting hairs on whether or not its light blue or blue- but let me ask you this- if you stayed 60 long enough to get those 91 AAs in AC then you likely also got a lot of other thing accomplished as well as far as bazaar purchases or spell purchases.
So the question is now at 65 how long does it take you overall to get those same 91 AAs? And what else, if anything, are you getting done-
Answer it honestly and you have to agree if time equals bang for buck its a lot sweeter at 60.
Sure, you can do good in Nurga, but what are you doing there at 65? Are you staying for any length of time?
In the end at 65 your likely never accomplish those 91 AAs at that rate nor get the other benefits of the loot as well.
At 60 you can get an AA every 2 hours solo in Acrylia (note: this doesn't take into account that every 2 hours you have to leave and sell/bank to empty your bags before you come back ). Maybe slightly faster if you are reallyl uber. There are sweet spots like Acrylia where you can accomplish this AND make a lot of cash at the same time to buy equipment upgrades with.
At 65 you can get an AA every 2 hours solo in places like Nurga. Possibly faster elsewhere. You can definately get much faster AA's in groups in BoT or Elemental planes.
So, you can get some great AA's done before 65. I don't think anyone is refuting that. What they are refuting is your exxageration of the rate (one hour / aa is NOT doable at 60, solo). If I was getting an AA every hour in Acrylia at 60, I'd still be level 60 and raking in more cash and AA's. After all, there are still a few upgrades left for me in the baz (Narandi's helm for one :))
In Griegs and Sirens I get 1aa every 1h 40min with our gimped OH-DA. Should be faster when that is fixed.
Base mobs in both places are solid 1.5% each. They take ~1 minute to die. Only need 67 mobs to get an AA. 67 minutes of killing, 33 minutes of buffing, down time (nil with KEI, Baleful, Paragon) afk, nosepicking, and the double kill times on named.
I never like sirens- nore greigs for that matter-in fact most Luclin zones are downright aweful for XP with the exception of AC, PC and the city killing guards - which is also great XP but if I remember right they light blue pretty early like 56-57.
Aside from farming the epic pieces who would spend time in the grey or elsewhere?
What's really wierd is go into a zone without air and there's no XP bonus as well- used to be underwater zones was the best xp bonus but that's all changed now as well-
It's a shame it's more a matter of what zone your in rather than the toughness of the mobs your killing- I mean, geos in WL are downright hard as well as the sentients to take down yet the XP there is downright aweful.
AC is one of the few places one can go to farm and at least get XP- and though at 65 there's better farm places that earring in the castle can bring 30k- the SK shield 18k and the 2 swords 10K and 15k- and a 65 can get all 4 pretty easily solo in a night- not a bad nights work at all.
PoG at one time was soloable and 15k per hour in gem drops was sweet as well til they changed the argo - but at one time a 65 (even a 62) could sit at the west wall and pull with little worry if you used our pet's snare- and remembered to bring a gate potion. I once helped a cleric raise 100K there for a spell buy in 2 nights- but those days are gone now. :(
Grieg's end has the same ZEM that Acrylia Caverns does...and Siren's grotto is only slightly worse (GE/AC = 90, SG = 85) :roll:
Quote from: TerjynPovar
At level 60 I'd be amazed if you could "chat with guildmates and friends" and maintain a pace of 1 per minute.
That's not difficult.
lol, depends how seasoned you are I guess- there was a time when I firs started raiding and found it very hard to pay attention to all the different chat instructions coming from so many different directions ie, raid leader, group leader, buffers and so on , not to mention new found lag, ect-
It can take a while to configure and get used to 3 chat windows, in game options most turn off, and targeting, ect- all very overwhelming to someone new to it.
Strangely most guilds use this ackward time and unnatural game situation to decide if you are right for the guild.
I find this odd as a raid environment is hardly the place to 'know' a player and it can take all of us a long time to 'get it down' yet both are deciding factors on that app. invite to that raid you've never been at before-
seems i got off track- guess the main point here is what a seasoned player now does without thinking was a mean learning process in the biginning for all of us- and trying to camp and talk in chat can be a bit much if your not used to it.