... there's a nice history at the back. SoE lore "writers" take note - this is something you can aspire to. Nope, it's not literature by any means but it does not read like it was written by an eight year old high on Eddings' crap either.
(http://bushwhacked.net/bits/boring.jpg)
(http://www.bernard-manning-wind-up-calls.co.uk/images/357.gif)
(http://www.dailyprobe.com/arcs/102201/cnreilly.jpg)
HAHA!
I agree, SoE could learn a lot by paying attention to the folks at Blizzard. WoW beats EQ/EQ2 hands down.
Ya 2 hour waits to get in game < story line
I wouldn't doubt Blizzard are better at making an entertaining game initially.
I also wouldn't doubt they're gonna be nowhere near as good as SOE at keeping it running and entertaining over a period of time.
I haven't tried WoW but what I hear from people who have it "great until you complete it". Seems to be born out by reports of level 20 players on release day.
EQ2 seems fun to me and they seem to be avoiding alot of the EQ mistakes quite well.
Each to their own though.
Khayden
Considering the fact that the storyline on which the game is based as been around for about twenty years, that's not really all that impressive.
QuoteYa 2 hour waits to get in game < story line
That's on 4 of 88 servers. If you wern't dumb enough to go flocking to one of those 4 servers because it has a cool name like the other 50k people did then you don't have a problem at all.
QuoteI also wouldn't doubt they're gonna be nowhere near as good as SOE at keeping it running and entertaining over a period of time.
I haven't tried WoW but what I hear from people who have it "great until you complete it". Seems to be born out by reports of level 20 players on release day.
Tell that to the guilds at the end of GoD when they have to kill the last boss only to watch it raise itself from the dead and make them go through it all again.
Plus "all the people you hear from" haven't seen anything of the "end" of WoW. During beta there was no "end". Oxynia (sp?) was as good as it got and the lowest anyone ever got her was 60ish%. What the hell was fun about EQ's end game? Not one damn thing that I saw that Blizzard couldn't do better.
It's not the game play ....
It's not the longevity ...
It's not the story ...
It's the quality of writing. SoE can afford to hire decent writers but they don't they hire 8th rate hacks who write pure, unadulterated crapola. I can write better than SoE's lore writers and I barely put out one short story a year. If I can write better than them then they truely suck.
http://www.cae.wisc.edu/~converse/pix/reading.jpg
Removed the imbedded picture. Please refrain from further links of this kind - Jaeren
Ogee, wtf? delete that stupid fucking picture. If it floats your boat, fine, jerk off to it all you like, don't post dumb shit like that.
I just took a photo of me reading Wow lore for Incite with my web cam . Don't hate me cause i'm beautiful .
Liar. That's you in your sig, checking out fat boys crack.
To be honest I would have to think people nuts to endure another SoE game. EQ has been 4 years of frustration, SWG blows, Planetside blew and now EQ2 is horrible from what I played. In beta it was just as buggy as it is now. Game play isn't smooth and they can't make things work well on AMD computers. Instead of actually working on it I was told by tech support I should switch to an Intel chip. What kind of support is that. Sony can kiss my ass, I would play scrabble before I gave them anymore money on a new game.
"Removed the imbedded picture. Please refrain from further links of this kind - Jaeren"
This is the part where i start crying that my 1st Amendment rights are being violated . Oh ya thats right i don't give a shit cause it was all in fun . Sorry a photo of an ass offends you . You must have a hell of a time with a mirror :lol:
Just joking lighten up everyone :wink:
We've gone over the images thing time and time again, please do not start it again.
Quote from: OgeeJust joking lighten up everyone :wink:
Keep reading this until it makes sence .
Quote from: SkandaQuoteI also wouldn't doubt they're gonna be nowhere near as good as SOE at keeping it running and entertaining over a period of time.
I haven't tried WoW but what I hear from people who have it "great until you complete it". Seems to be born out by reports of level 20 players on release day.
Tell that to the guilds at the end of GoD when they have to kill the last boss only to watch it raise itself from the dead and make them go through it all again.
Plus "all the people you hear from" haven't seen anything of the "end" of WoW. During beta there was no "end". Oxynia (sp?) was as good as it got and the lowest anyone ever got her was 60ish%. What the hell was fun about EQ's end game? Not one damn thing that I saw that Blizzard couldn't do better.
If something wasn't fun any more after a while I'd stop doing it. I assume the same of other people although tolerance thresholds are different of course.
EQ has been around a long time, surely someone is having some fun out there? The end game in EQ has kept people busy for a long time, and sure opinions differ, but the fact is there are guilds who still raid the endgame content from many expansions and still enjoy it. Does the fact that Tac'vi was a badly designed zone entirely negate all the other fun things in that expansion or any of the others?
As for WoW I freely admit I haven't played it and none of the people I have spoken to have played it to the "end", however the two comments I hear time and time again are that it's too easy to level and gets boring, and that the proportion of battlenet kiddies is vastly higher.
While EQ2 isn't free of problems the issues it has seem to be less serious to me; In the core game systems and the approach they've taken they seem to have learned the biggest lessons from EQ.
Every company that makes MMO games has it's fans and critics and goes through the same set of problems to varying degrees. You have to remember that SoEs critics are gonna outnumber any other because their games have had the highest subscriber numbers for a long time. Very few people shout nice things loud, lots more shout about bad things.
Personally the one I think will blow them both out of the water is Vanguard, the names on the team there have some huge and varied experience and I like the approach they describe.
Khayden
Quote from: Khayden
If something wasn't fun any more after a while I'd stop doing it. I assume the same of other people although tolerance thresholds are different of course.
EQ has been around a long time, surely someone is having some fun out there? The end game in EQ has kept people busy for a long time, and sure opinions differ, but the fact is there are guilds who still raid the endgame content from many expansions and still enjoy it. Does the fact that Tac'vi was a badly designed zone entirely negate all the other fun things in that expansion or any of the others?
Judging by the large amounts of people leaving EQ for either WoW or EQ2 I'd say there are some problems with EQ. There are several reasons a lot of people stick with EQ that have little to do with fun. They may not want to lose their friends or maybe all the work they put in their character just to start over in another game or they are refusing to quit till they see the "end game" in EQ not realizing that with each expansion that "end game" just keeps moving away.
I know quite a few people in my old EQ guild who fall under those three catagories.
Quote
As for WoW I freely admit I haven't played it and none of the people I have spoken to have played it to the "end", however the two comments I hear time and time again are that it's too easy to level and gets boring, and that the proportion of battlenet kiddies is vastly higher.
First, leveling does start to slow down around lvl 25. It's still faster then EQ or EQ2 but who made up the rule that leveling slow = fun? As long as Blizzard can supply enough lvl 60 content to keep people occupied then why should it take a long time to level?
QuoteYou have to remember that SoEs critics are gonna outnumber any other because their games have had the highest subscriber numbers for a long time.
Actually FFXI beats SoE for subscribers and in a month or three Blizzard more then likely will too if they keep this growth trend up.
QuoteThis is the part where i start crying that my 1st Amendment rights are being violated . Oh ya thats right i don't give a shit cause it was all in fun . Sorry a photo of an ass offends you . You must have a hell of a time with a mirror
Constitutes nudity, idiot. Want that stuff? Go visit porn sites. Want to show it to people? Put it in a link and describe it as "not work safe", the commonly accepted description for that crap. Looking at a naked guy's ass is not something I do out of choice, so shove your "fun" where it fits.
Jeez now i feel shame Latang . I didn't know that a photo of a guys ass would stir your inner homo-erotic feelings and make you become all defensive .
Gotta say here that "Not work safe" is the thing. Folks have been fired for that sort of thing and getting fired is NOT funny. :cry:
Quote from: SkandaQuoteYou have to remember that SoEs critics are gonna outnumber any other because their games have had the highest subscriber numbers for a long time.
Actually FFXI beats SoE for subscribers and in a month or three Blizzard more then likely will too if they keep this growth trend up.
EQ was number one from q3 99 to q3 03. When FFXI beat it, SWG already had over a quarter of a million subscribers.
WoW has gained a huge number of subscribers very quickly, so has EQ2. If you look at the number of servers and the nightly population on them I'd guess that they're pretty similar in number. I know WoW doubled the number of servers, but then so did EQ2 and they're still offering movelogs on the heavily loaded ones.
Khayden
World of Warcraft;
Amazon.com Sales Rank in Computer & Video Games: #4
CE edition;
Amazon.com Sales Rank in Computer & Video Games: #658
Everquest 2;
Amazon.com Sales Rank in Computer & Video Games: #415
CE edition;
Amazon.com Sales Rank in Computer & Video Games: #1,585
True that's only 1 "store" out of dozens of major retailers but somehow I don't see EQ2 being able to keep up with World of Warcraft.
The only way I could see EQ2 having about as many players right now is if you could the people from Europe and Asia playing it. WoW hasn't released in either of those area yet so it's sitting on another massive boost to it's subscriptions until Blizzard releases in each of those respective countries.
i.e. There is no way on earth EQ2 will match WoW once WoW has gone worldwide.
GUYS!!!! C'mon ... this is not about the games ... it's about SoE's crappy lore "writers". Actually, scratch that I don't care what you rant about.
Ogee, it's nice to know you care! But Bernard Manning > All, sorry.
Personally I *hated* EQ2, but I have friends who are enjoying it, so more power to them. I am now playing WoW and very happy with it; a MMOG that is fun and not grind. I will still play EQ1 because I am dedicated to my guild and enjoying raiding time, but damn, WoW is nice, even down to the boobies on the dorf women.
I agree with ya there Incite " I *hated* EQ2 " . I tried it a few times and it had no attraction for me . IMO it was just Eq for Dummies .
Quote from: InciteGUYS!!!! C'mon ... this is not about the games ... it's about SoE's crappy lore "writers". Actually, scratch that I don't care what you rant about.
Sorry to derail your rant. :P
I just couldn't let the
QuoteI also wouldn't doubt they're gonna be nowhere near as good as SOE at keeping it running and entertaining over a period of time.
comment pass.
And yes. I have a cat that could write better lore then SoE does.
Quote from: SkandaI just couldn't let the
QuoteI also wouldn't doubt they're gonna be nowhere near as good as SOE at keeping it running and entertaining over a period of time.
comment pass.
And yes. I have a cat that could write better lore then SoE does.
Hehe, fair enough. I am sure Blizzard will do well with expansions and added content as well. I would think they will have to add something like AA because that was a big draw with EQ, being able to continue advancing your character when you maxed out level. Hopefully something like that will be in hero classes. Blizzard have an extremely long and successful track record in managing servers (Battle.net) and although they have made some mistakes they've been generally pretty good.
Quote from: SkandaWorld of Warcraft;
Amazon.com Sales Rank in Computer & Video Games: #4
CE edition;
Amazon.com Sales Rank in Computer & Video Games: #658
Everquest 2;
Amazon.com Sales Rank in Computer & Video Games: #415
CE edition;
Amazon.com Sales Rank in Computer & Video Games: #1,585
True that's only 1 "store" out of dozens of major retailers but somehow I don't see EQ2 being able to keep up with World of Warcraft.
The only way I could see EQ2 having about as many players right now is if you could the people from Europe and Asia playing it. WoW hasn't released in either of those area yet so it's sitting on another massive boost to it's subscriptions until Blizzard releases in each of those respective countries.
i.e. There is no way on earth EQ2 will match WoW once WoW has gone worldwide.
Wow, talk about meaningless comparisons. Amazon ships what proportion of total game sales? And lets see what WoWs rank is a month after release when everyone whos been waiting on it has bought it, especially if there's a game that ships a few hundred thousand copies released then.
For the record I agree the lore in EQ sucks balls, sorry for derailing but I'm an argumentative SoB when I think people are being closed minded.
Anyways have fun whatever you do!
Khayden
Admins, could we get a forum for "incessant fanboy bullshit" please? Thanks in advance.
Neight
Quote from: neightAdmins, could we get a forum for "incessant fanboy bullshit" please? Thanks in advance.
Neight
LOL wondered how long it would take someone.
Very original and well thought out.
Quote from: neightAdmins, could we get a forum for "incessant fanboy bullshit" please? Thanks in advance.
Neight
I don't see any fanboy bullshit anywhere on this thread.
Please remove your [*****] from your [*****] and have a nice day!
Well, i've gotten to 25 in woW and I'm far from bored and no where near getting to 60 any time soon. The quests, the trade skills, the exploring all work together to enthrall the player in the world.
As for the B-NET crowd? Mostly centered on the PvP servers much like in EQ. I switched and had a character on a regular server and it seemed about the same as the crowd on the Rathe.
I ended up on a RP server where people actually roleplay and Blizzard actually supports and stands behind rules for people who violate it. You can't sit and tell everyone in general chat about your new computer, your flat tire, etc. Something that was getting pretty common on FV.
Overall on the RP server I'd describe the player base better than any I've seen on any servers in EQ. The normal servers are about the same and the PvP servers are to be avoided. Not too unlike EQ.
All those casting doubt on Wow simply have not played it. I have yet seen any shortfall. I haven't even seen a game bug yet.
Unlike EQ, where expansions force players into a narrow raid nitch or group nitch I expect Blizzard to keep the gameplay balanced for all as the intial release looks to be. There will be no 'join guild to see most of expansion' nonesense. Blizzard doesn't think narrow or only try to please a single type of player- WoW manages to please all types.
In fact, in fun, gameplay, design, there simply isn't a comparison. I endured eq since beta but I'm finally enjoying an online game as much as i enjoy single player games.
Finally I no longer have to wait months or years for the Dev team to fix my class then only have another expansion unbalance it again.
Quote from: ghostryderAs for the B-NET crowd? Mostly centered on the PvP servers much like in EQ. I switched and had a character on a regular server and it seemed about the same as the crowd on the Rathe.
A slight aside, but I must say one thing. A common rallying cry EQ2 fanboys use is "wow is full of b-net kiddies." Wander about Antonica for 5 mins on the rp server in EQ2 and you've got your b-netters right there. I daresay the Commonlands are no different.
This myth that only Blizzard games are affected by nobs and d00ds and the mature choose Sony is exactly that - a myth.
Well my experience on a low population, non-PvP server is that the "B-Net kiddie" element does exist and is there. Fortunately it's not that noticable, although I'm sure it is probably worse on PvP servers. I probably don't help as I am living up to my name (Incite Riots) somewhat and more than once have left a zone having started people arguing about stuff ... :oops:
The community is noticably immature in WoW, just like EQ was right at the start. Attempted KSing is common and rolling into other people's camps is common as well. This is 99% not malicious but simply people not having the kind of etiquette that we have developed in EQ and I'm sure it will change.
Quote from: InciteAttempted KSing is common and rolling into other people's camps is common as well. This is 99% not malicious but simply people not having the kind of etiquette that we have developed in EQ and I'm sure it will change.
I'm with you on the unintentional KSing, but on my server at least, I don't think that the lack of camps is going away anytime soon. Anytime someone says that word in /General, it seems like the universal response is ten people saying "THIS ISN'T EQ!" :)
On topic: Any game that can send me on a delivery quest and keep me right-click reading the correspondence while I run is doing OK in my book.
I played WoW in the open beta, and it has got a LOT going for it. Most aspects of the game are an improvement to EQ, and the lack of bugs is refreshing.
I noticed right from the beginning, however, that leveling was way too fast. The first four levels can be done in an hour, or less if you are not a complete noob to the game, and the progression does not slow till level 20. I did not get past 21, but the leveling was still very fast. I do not think leveling should be tedious, but if you can level that fast, what happens when the majority of your player base has reached level 60 in 4 months? One of the things that created the "community" in EQ was the fact that leveling to max level (60) was an immensily difficult and time consuming thing. It took a lot of working together, and time, to do. In that time, you developed friends, loyalties, habits and became a part of the game. These things take time, and effort.
You truly value the things you have had to work for and accomplish with great effort. I think WoW and most of the online games are making a mistake in letting people reach max level without a great amount of time an effort. Making it easy devalues the accomplishment.
Will those of you who reached level 60 prior to Kunark ever really think reaching 60 in WoW is just as big a thing?
I don't think so.
I have the same concern...and I know others do too. It seems that Blizzard intends for the level 60 game to be a PvP one. That doesn't interest me at all, really. I think that in WoW I will be an "alt-o-holic"...because the starting areas are so wonderfully detailed and different, it really seems to me to be rewarding to have one character of every race at least (well, might not have to do both Dwarves and Gnomes, or Orcs and Trolls). And the classes seem pretty distinguished as well...I am definitely interested in playing Hunter (of course!), Warlock, Druid, and Shaman, and probably Mage as well. Not sure about the others yet.
In this way WoW has much more replayability than EQ2 does in my opinion. And more than EQ1 currently (in races, not classes), due to the ease of travel.
Game on,
Quote from: Shille on December 16, 2004, 07:55:40 PM
You truly value the things you have had to work for and accomplish with great effort. I think WoW and most of the online games are making a mistake in letting people reach max level without a great amount of time an effort. Making it easy devalues the accomplishment.
Will those of you who reached level 60 prior to Kunark ever really think reaching 60 in WoW is just as big a thing?
I don't think so.
That's fine ... if you want to sink that much time into a game then that is your choice and there are plenty of games out there which allow you to do that. I'm glad that a decent game that does not demand the timesink that EQ does is on the market.
There was no level 60 pre-Kunark, it came with the release of Kunark. As for the leveling comments you can level as fast or slow as you want. For those not interested in seeing anything in the game, working on tradeskills or doing quests sure you could grind your weay to 60 fast. It is the same in EQ and EQ2 on that aspect. For the normal person though leveling takes a LOT of work. With 3.5 days played I am lvl 27. That is working pretty hard to get there also. I have done almost ALL of it in quests.
Leveling really slows after 20, and gets real slow the closer to 30 you get.
As mentioned, unlike EQ, you get sidetracked by a lot of things other than the grind. Quests, especially those involving dungeons and Elite mobs, can be quit involved, especially attempting them solo. Here, you got to be careful with you tactics to single pull - and I've found it's pretty balanced in the tactics department.
I went back and paid the gold to retrain my aspects for a beefier pet to handle such encounters.
I've yet had a problem with a camp- in fact last night I snuck into the Horde lands and found it pretty barren of other players-all the way down to the land of a thousand needles where I then gated out as the mobs levels were much higher.
I don't know how level 60 will play out. Expansions are planned of course, and I'm unsure if I'll take to PvP combat as it's been pretty dissapointing in any game implimenting it, but I doubt that will be the only option. This isn't DOAC.
I intend to bring a druid and wizzard up through the ranks as alts as well, so I don't find me running out of things to do for a long time to come.
It is certainly worth a try as your get your money's worth.
Quote from: Kaspi on December 17, 2004, 02:37:53 AM
There was no level 60 pre-Kunark, it came with the release of Kunark. As for the leveling comments you can level as fast or slow as you want. For those not interested in seeing anything in the game, working on tradeskills or doing quests sure you could grind your weay to 60 fast. It is the same in EQ and EQ2 on that aspect. For the normal person though leveling takes a LOT of work. With 3.5 days played I am lvl 27. That is working pretty hard to get there also. I have done almost ALL of it in quests.
On that note.....Ding 60 and yes I'm also a Master Leatherworker(272)/Skinner(300). I also did a ton of quests since that is a totally viable way of leveling up.
Quote from: Skanda on December 17, 2004, 11:03:29 PM
Quote from: Kaspi on December 17, 2004, 02:37:53 AM
There was no level 60 pre-Kunark, it came with the release of Kunark. As for the leveling comments you can level as fast or slow as you want. For those not interested in seeing anything in the game, working on tradeskills or doing quests sure you could grind your weay to 60 fast. It is the same in EQ and EQ2 on that aspect. For the normal person though leveling takes a LOT of work. With 3.5 days played I am lvl 27. That is working pretty hard to get there also. I have done almost ALL of it in quests.
On that note.....Ding 60 and yes I'm also a Master Leatherworker(272)/Skinner(300). I also did a ton of quests since that is a totally viable way of leveling up.
Serious questions cos I'm thinking of giving it a go next year when it's out in Europe. How long /played did that take? And what is there to do now? Are they really aiming for PvP to be the end game content?
Interesting to note that you maxed about a week after the first person on EQ2 hit 50, with no tradeskills.
Khayden
That took me about 13 days of /played time. As for what there is to do now;
A) Finish maxing my tradeskills which requires farming leather
B) Instance zones to gear myself up so that I am ready to to raid. I really doubt people will be strong enough to raid without this step.
C) Help the rest of my guild so they can catch up so we can get raiding sooner
Once they release battlegrounds (which they just previewed and they look great) and once my guild catches up to me there will be PvPing and raiding added to that list.