See below for quote from last HoC chat. Tastian, can you ask Rashere to not even consider this? It is a bad idea for bst because it will just cause more pet death. My pet is often at the top of the hate list.
QuoteBrannoc - *Nolrog* The ability for a pet to hold agro over a PC was removed years ago to prevent charmed mobs from tanking (and doing it better than any pc). In todays setting, no pc will out-perform a true pc tank, however for mishmash groups it would be a boon to allow the pet to tank over a pc. Now that heals place healers on hate list, can we have this functionality returned? (submiited by Prex_Atlane)
Rashere - This is a really tricky area. We don't want pets to take the place of main tanks which is the reasoning behind the limitation in the first place. I don't think that keeping this limitation intact has any relevance to healers being put on a hatelist now, but I do want to look into whether the restriction is still appropriate in today's game.
Rashere - Removing it is a pretty big change, though, and we're going to have to do a lot of research into the impact first.
The changes to our soloing ability would be absolutely huge. Our entire class is based around the hardcoded PC-pet agro.
Wonderful, they can't get Fero to not suck but they are going to waste an incredible amount of time fixing something that ain't broke. Lovely.
seriously... changing this would be an incredibly bad thing. jeezus.. kk.. i can guarantee that at some points on raids, my pet is higher than the frickin tanks on agro, cuz its first getting smished if the mob gets put outa range of everyone. So this would be a horrid idea.
It would drastically change the dynamic of so much of the game, it would be crazy. If they institute that, I'm quitting, right then & there.
We started out before hardcoded PC aggro was in place. I remember enchanter charm pets tanking BoT bosses, both with and without PC dps added...it was pretty sick. I agree it would be a HUGE change to what we're used to, but our class wasn't actually based around the feature originally. Of course, lots of things have changed since the original luclin implementation.
What i don't undestand from SEO is the need to change old set of rule, that wasn't intended to work this way but wasn't changed for 7 years. The game is loosing players, they doing correction to bug that is not a priority for most player's and they start to alinated a part of the players population that are happy to go solo (or duo with a bot healer).
It's already difficult to get a group this day's, if they cut the possiblility to play by yourself what do you think will happen? Are they in such a hurry to kill the game???
The so much more important game issue then this change. Why don't they try to fix the most important stuff, and the list is long.
Maybe instead of asking every class what is there view on there reallity today of there class, we should ask SEO management what is there view of the change they want to do in the game. I don't feel like they listen to the player's side anymore, they throw a bones once in a while so we are happy but there something missing.
With so many game out there and many other's coming soon, SEO should think of there customer a little more.
Don't get to upset. I read that response as a polite way of saying "sure, we'll look at it but don't expect any changes". All Rashere needs is a few negative feedbacks and nothing will occur.
I hope that if they do decide to implement it, instead of +50 to hate for every proc that lands, they add -200 hate. If I recall correctly, ever pet proc we have adds +50 to pets hate. Makes it easy for pets to get to top of hate list really really fast.
Quote from: Nusa on December 21, 2006, 02:30:57 PM
We started out before hardcoded PC aggro was in place. I remember enchanter charm pets tanking BoT bosses, both with and without PC dps added...it was pretty sick. I agree it would be a HUGE change to what we're used to, but our class wasn't actually based around the feature originally. Of course, lots of things have changed since the original luclin implementation.
The change to pet agro was done in Velious, well before our class was implemented. I never, ever had Spot "out-agro" me, even when using no spells bare fists and skilling up on H2H when Lupic was a newbie, back in April of 2002. Only when I backed up did he start to take damage. This isn't all that important a point though; the main thing is that for years our class has been balanced assuming that we can quickly swap agro back and forth, utilizing both the BST and Warder HPs, and timing heals to juggle between them.
Quote from: Spiritclaw on December 21, 2006, 08:44:01 PM
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If I recall correctly, ever pet proc we have adds +50 to pets hate. Makes it easy for pets to get to top of hate list really really fast.
It also doesn't help if they are using mage-summoned aggro weapons. The ones that specifically say they raise the users hate.
Why would you want to use mage summoned agro weapons? To me, that is lowering pet dps based on mage dd weapons.
It's a "What-If" kind of thing.
If I was the tank for a group I'd like my pet generating extra agro for me.
Pets do not generate agro for you. Their agro list is independent of your own. I can't find the thread at the moment, but it was covered elsewhere. I don't think they'll be changing it any time soon.
Pets have an independent aggro standing, but their aggro is still good for tanking. If the pet has the highest aggro then the mob won't go for any casters. You still need to out-aggro other melees of course. So in effect, they are generating aggro for you. This also works if someone else is tanking. This is why I leave pet taunt on, and part of the reason why changing pc/pet aggro rules would be bad.
Pet attacking a mob puts you on hate list with a big whopping 1 hate.
In his first swing the pet will do 50x - X hate more than that.
Pet will hold a mob to a spot however for groups so it won't go after casters.
This can allow a tank to not have to aggro as much but still keep it away from casters via the pet whos really holding the mob down.
With what is being considered in this thread.
Your pets would be dying on raid encounters and in group encounters and we'd just lose them for dps.
During the first few seconds of a raid encounter, the pet would hit #1 on the aggro list and those nice 3-4k+ hitting raid things would go.. OOO SQUISHIE!
and splat the pet goes... and then the tank gets aggro back.
Quote from: Vidyne on December 24, 2006, 02:53:29 PM
Pet attacking a mob puts you on hate list with a big whopping 1 hate.
In his first swing the pet will do 50x - X hate more than that.
Pet will hold a mob to a spot however for groups so it won't go after casters.
This can allow a tank to not have to aggro as much but still keep it away from casters via the pet whos really holding the mob down.
With what is being considered in this thread.
Your pets would be dying on raid encounters and in group encounters and we'd just lose them for dps.
During the first few seconds of a raid encounter, the pet would hit #1 on the aggro list and those nice 3-4k+ hitting raid things would go.. OOO SQUISHIE!
and splat the pet goes... and then the tank gets aggro back.
Simply turning off pet taunt should keep them from going "squishie" during a raid due to out agroing the tank. Some of that mad agro pets have come from constantly spamming taunt, putting them above everyone else +1. Something you will never find a taunting class doing during raids. Where most tanks don't spam taunt because:
-It wont do a darn thing for you if you are already at top of the hate list.
-That way the ability is actually ready to use when someone ganks agro.
That said, I still don't think they will ever change the coding back to the point where pets can out agro PC's. The outcry from the community in general and tanks specifically would be huge. Personally, I don't believe it would be good for the game.
Remember, each damage proc we have with 2 execptions add +50 to hate. So every time he does DD, he is also adding that hate to himself. Even without taunt on, he is getting huge amounts of hate
QuoteYour pets would be dying on raid encounters
When do they not? ;p Pet is currently near-unusable in many places as it is. For example in Razorthorne, a single ae dot thing from an evil-eye can kill it, even if you try to hide it safely in a corner just to use as a growl battery.
Quote from: Spiritclaw on December 21, 2006, 08:44:01 PM
I hope that if they do decide to implement it, instead of +50 to hate for every proc that lands, they add -200 hate. If I recall correctly, ever pet proc we have adds +50 to pets hate. Makes it easy for pets to get to top of hate list really really fast.
Nope there's a couple of quested pet procs that actually drop hate. Check out spirit of the snow for an example.