There was talk at the very very very beginnings of EQBeastlord.com about a "Lvl 65 only" forum so that people who were high level didn't have to bother with people that "Don't know what they are talking about".
It was never implimented, even after it was changed to "Vex Thal capable", "Elemental only" or "Time only" in the suggestion.
I was always on the side that said such a forum is degrading. Especially to a class that was mainly comprised of people's alts. Many players who already had level 65's, just in another class.
When I started posting at the origional forums, I was not 65. I have never been to Vex Thal, Elemental Plane, or Time. I've never even been to Veeshan's Peak or Even Sleepers Tomb. Yet I'd like to think that I had something to say when I posted.
When this forum was created to replace the old one, it did not have this forum. However it was installed without so much as a discussion about it. Suffice it to say that I'm upset at the segregation, enough that I stepped down as a moderator.
I guess I just thought that we were better than this.
So far it seems all that is being talked about there is beastlord tactics for EP raids. I'm not a EP flagged beast but I don't really see the difference between that fourm and the Level 65 hunting thread. It's a place to go and talk about tactics other people use while in that area. I haven't seen anyone in that fourm yet that has even remotely suggested they are "better" then the rest of us. Personally I think it's good that it's seperated that way it is easier to find for future EP flagged bsts.
QuoteWhen this forum was created to replace the old one, it did not have this forum. However it was installed without so much as a discussion about it. Suffice it to say that I'm upset at the segregation, enough that I stepped down as a moderator.
I guess I just thought that we were better than this.
I think you WAYYYYYY over reacted. It's a forum section just like any other and not meant to segregate any more than any other section of this board. It is nothing more than a way to keep similiar topics in areas that are easy to find for those that they matter the most to.
Haven't we had enough fucking drama in recent days or do we really need to create more over something this damn silly?
From what I have read in that board, no one is having an elitist attitude at all. Just people talking able drops and fights in the elemental planes.
I think stepping down was an over reaction. It's not degrading to anyone. Just setting up a different area for ele and above related stuff. OMG life is over as we know it since there is a forum for ele and above beasties! No one is prevented from posting there if they are not at that level so whats the big deal? I rather like having a seperate section for it and was happy when I spotted it.
QuoteANYONE may post here as long as the topics pretain to the Planes of Power "Elemental Planes" (ie: The Uber Zones that are tough to get in to)
-Plane of Earth (The Rathe Council/Avatar of Earth reside here)
-Plane of Fire (Fennin Ro resides here)
-Plane of Water (Coirnav resides here)
-Plane of Air (Xegony resides here)
-Plane of Time (I dont think I need to say whats here...)
This is not an elitist forum. It is meant for discussions pretaining to and directly related to the above zones.
Do not be bashful. Anyone may post here. Just keep on topic and everything will be just dandy
This is not elitist.....In anyway.....at all.
The sticky clearly says
Anyone can post here, just keep it on topic. If you are a level 22 beastlord and you had a question about the elemental planes, you could post it here.
So it's ok to devote entire sections of this board to lower levels but the minute you step foot into the elemental planes you lose the right to have a forum devoted to the areas and mobs you fight?.This is just as "elitist" as making a section for 61-65 hunting grounds.
Nobody ever said "if you arn't 65 with 300 AA's you CAN't post here!, n00b skum!". The section is simply there to provide information and discussion about the elemental planes and up.
QuoteThere was talk at the very very very beginnings of EQBeastlord.com about a "Lvl 65 only" forum so that people who were high level didn't have to bother with people that "Don't know what they are talking about".
I think you're making an unwarranted leap from this concern and situation to the existance of a forum about the elemental planes. I check out the Paladins of Norrath (http://pub148.ezboard.com/bpaladinsofnorrath) boards fairly often, and they actually *have* a forum which is closer to what you wrote of:
QuoteLord Protector's Citadel
Moderator: Gloyn Holyforge
This forum is for very high level Paladin Issues, Raids, Tactics, Weapon Efficiency Comparisons and game mechanic discussions. Leading edge content or late, very high end content from the previous expansion should be the topic here.(PoP + VT + Emperor/Seru currently).
THIS IS NOT THE LEVEL 65 'GENERAL' FORUM AND POSTS NOT SPECIFICALLY ON IT'S HEADING TOPICS WILL BE MOVED!
I don't see any elitism in the other forums on the board due to this. On the contrary, I think it's helpful to segregate this kind of discussion out of other forums as it's very specific to those people involved in raiding in those zones, as well as those who are interested in finding out more by peeking in.
The real mark of elitism would be if it was a locked forum only open to L65s, IMO.
Quote from: MakaniWhen this forum was created to replace the old one, it did not have this forum. However it was installed without so much as a discussion about it. Suffice it to say that I'm upset at the segregation, enough that I stepped down as a moderator.
I guess I just thought that we were better than this.
Please please please tell me that we aren't going to have people quiting things all the time because it "isn't like the old board" I mean seriously, the "old" board is still there with all its old forums. THIS board is off to a fine start, but it will stand or fall on its own merits regardless of how the "old" board was. It does not, and should not, be a just a clone or mirror site eqbeastlords.com. It must set its own policy and personality just like all the other fan sites out there have done.
When recent events become past events, this board will need something that makes it special. If this site is nothing more than a clone of the old, when the new beastlord comes looking, they will want an honest choice of where they frequent. Since eqbeastlords is a well known site, the new peeps WILL go there, regardless of current ownership, and they will most likely check this board out too. Why would they stay here? Ask yourselves honestly; why here? The answer is that they will not stay here. The reason they will not is that it will be seen as a knockoff of the older, more established board. Creating new and different forums is the lifeblood of organizing a personality that stands on its own.
Separating these forums logically so as not to confuse the new beast should also be a priority. Setting up initially as the old board was set up is what we all know and trust. It is a great starting point, but it can ONLY be a starting point if this board is to survive.
The forums must develop along new lines for survival. Adding a higher level focused forum is a good start, even if it is a new concept for the beastlord comunity. More need to be added for different levels/areas. Some of the older forums might need to be combined/revamped over time to give this site a unique look and feel. Change is good! Change is what will make this board thrive instead of stagnate!
Okay, its about 4 hours past when I planned on being in bed, and my spelling and brain function is sending me into a long winded post that somehow got me thinking about the lessons I learned creating several high volume BBS systems back in the days of uber 1200 baud modems :) I wish I could be more eloquent in spewing forth the leasons I've learned from both my failures and successes. If I had to put in a half dozen phone lines, I knew I had something. If I could stick with one and have 30% or lower connect time, it stunk and got hosed. The ones that thrived were the ones that were different from the others in town.
I understand the pains of moderating, Makani, I was always the sole moderator on any of my boards and each of them shut them down when I just couldn't bring myself to do 8+ hours of reading each night to keep up with it all. Its a thankless job, I've been there. The bug to run another would always return, and if we were still in the BBS age, I'd probably be setting one up again soon... Thank God that time has passed :) Take a break if you need to, but don't just up and quit.
Anyway, when I hit that "quote" button, what I had every intention of writing is this:
Makani, you are a fine moderator. I don't always agree with what you have to say, but you do a great job with a sometimes detestable job. I get the feeling that you could moderate any board well wether you new the subject matter or not. Its people skills that you do well.
I seriously hope that no one will make any rash decisions on these matters till everything cools down a bit. There is a LOT of leftover hurt from the events of the last two weeks, and those feelings can come in to play without us even realizing the root cause of our actions. The beastlord community has already lost some very good and knowlegable folks because they made quick decisions based on the emotions of the times. I fear these folks will realize this too late.
I'm sorry, but I see zero issue with that forum, on any board. Especially this one.
There is no password on it. It's open to everyone regardless of class or level. There's no bashing or elitist attitude in any of the posts.
In my eyes, such a forum is no different that a quest / equipment / AA / leveling forum. It's one single forum to consolidate information as it applies to a certain aspect of the game.
If I want to know what's going on with other EP level BSTs, since it applies to me, I can go there instead of sorting through the general forums and such.
I think it's a great idea and not only is it a great idea, but the way it was set up and the rules, etc. for posting are better than most other similair forums.
I for one really appreciate it.
me thinks someones skin is a little to thin on this matter.... It is not an elitest seperation, but more a sepration of information...
I personaly enjoy reading some stuff on Elemental and above, but honestly rarely have the time or desire to do so. The forum seperation helps me not have to weed through the information as much.
just my thoughts
um.. ok.. :roll:
Bleh.
When I stepped down, the reason I did so was because the descriptions of the forum said that it was for Elemental Beastlords ONLY, and that it would be HEAVILY MODERATED. (Caps as they were in the forum description.)
Apparently there was an update to the description to remove the hardcore wording that was there. They also removed the wording in the Rants forum which allowed full on vulgarity which was also in my step-down post.
I guess stepping down did have an effect, if a small one, after all.
The origional wording made that forum an elitist forum. The forum as it is now is just fine. A seperate section for information where anyone can discuss things.
Please, this was not drama. This was a person that was disgusted with the appearance of an "Elitist" forum after fighting against it on the old boards for so long coupled with the express written permission to turn the Rant forums into a "FoH" festival of vulgarity.
I didnt change the wording on "Rants - The Sewers" I think it was Buku. I re-read the descritpion on my Elementals discsussion forum and felt that it was perhaps... a tad harsh sounding. So I changed it to be much clearer on posting expectations.
the feral lord forum is not private, hidden, protected, or otherwise preventing a first-time poster, level 10, first time in EQ, from going there and asking "whats the elemental planes?"
So i dont think the forum is elitest :-P
I think we will see it evolve into a simple "Raid" forum down the line, but still focusing on 18+ player raids, at level 65... vt+ difficulty
I can't understand why people get so bent out of shape even if the posting was restricted to EP+ BST only. I don't see how you could make a worthwhile contribution unless you had experienced the content. The only reason i can see for being so angry about it is jealousy. There are a huge ammount of other forums for low level and non raiding BST to ask whatever they want. Its nice to have a forum not filled with "where can i Plvl my 15 Beastlord" questions for players that have outgrown them.
I think rewarding level 65 elemental beastlords is a good thing.
For one it gives incentive to get there yourself.
Secondly it's nice to post a relavent question and not have to go back a month later and search through 2 pages of posts.
Thirdly it eliminates the "brag post" comments and allows you to say things openly to a group of your equals ( in game equals that is ).
Overall I think it is a good forum.
If you can't handle it then don't look at it.
I hardly look at the equipment section anymore.
I glance at the campfire.
I read every post in the 65 section.
Nox
Makani, I admire your convictions.
You may have jumped the gun, but you did it for the right reasons.
As they stand now, I have no problem with the forums. I didn't like the original descriptions either, but I'm usually slow to react, and was still caught up in the drama of the move.
So Makani, you a MOD again?
No, I'm not a moderator anymore.
After the forum description was changed so that it wasn't so "harsh" and the express written permission to swear in the rants section was removed (The two reasons I gave for my step-down) I was not asked to return.
The forum as it is now isn't bad. It's no different from the other forums such as "Equipment", just a seperated forum to keep it organized. The way it was described and implemented at first was indeed a "Members Only" type of thing which is what set me off.
Having a forum for elemental issues makes SENSE, just like having a forum for P-Vs-P discussions would make sense if people wanted one.
Personally, I can understand why they didn't ask you to come back as a mod: quitting isn't the way that reasonable, mature adults deal with problems.
I'll quote myself......
Quote from: mac173and was still caught up in the drama of the move.
I think it apply's. We've all been caught up in the emotions of the move, and it is enevitable that some will react more, and more quickly, than others.
I hope it works out, Makani.
Jealousy is not the only reason why someone might be annoyed about this...but nobody who doesn't understand will ever be able to see any reason other than Jealousy.
I left a prior guild due to a situation somewhat like why Makani stepped down as a mod, so I know almost exactly how he feels.
Elitism for the sake of elitism is a bad thing...and just because you haven't been there doesn't mean your opinion isn't valid. It's the same as the endless "You don't play a class X so you don't understand" BS which people fall back on when all their logical arguments fall short.
This, of course, no longer applies with the description as it stands today, but Makani had a valid feeling, and all the talks about thin skin is not fair.
Quote from: TerjynPovarIt's the same as the endless "You don't play a class X so you don't understand" BS which people fall back on when all their logical arguments fall short.
Yes im sure a warrior knows exactly how to play a wizard and vice versa.
Quoteand just because you haven't been there doesn't mean your opinion isn't valid
How can a person who has never seen the event or experienced the mobs be able to give a worthwhile opinion? Don't get me wrong, being elitist isn't good but some times it is a good idea to have a seperate section for those who have experienced a certain aspect of the game to get together and discuss that aspect of the game.
Quote from: UrimHow can a person who has never seen the event or experienced the mobs be able to give a worthwhile opinion?.
How about someone who has questions about the elementals? Maqybe someone has a question and therefore can get an asnwer by someone who is in elementals. Just cause their not in elementals means that they CAN be productive by asking questions. I myself am not in elementals (Getting Close though), BUT I do have questions about them. Try to keep that in perspective plz.
-Elrathin-
-65 Feral Lord-
I personally dont see any different than having seperate forums for 60-64 and 65 hunting grounds. And I took "heavily moderated" to be a strong hint not to post "what class is best to duo with" or "best group for PoJ" trials type threads in that forum. I didn't take as "if your magelo doenst have elemental stuff on it your post will be deleted"
Quote from: Urim
How can a person who has never seen the event or experienced the mobs be able to give a worthwhile opinion?
Quote from: ElrathinHow about someone who has questions about the elementals?
There's a difference between questions about some event in the elemental planes and trying to state your opinion about an encounter you've never taken part in before. The same way some lvl 30 guy may have a question about Droga (which is fine) but shouldn't exactly be trying to explain why he thinks the King camp sucks.
Who do I have to kill for the edit button?