Taken from a Q and A between Woody of GU Comics and Brenlo.
QuoteWoody (12:17 PM) :
Howdy.
Brenlo (12:17 PM) :
Howdy =)
Woody (12:18 PM) :
Just so you know... I'm not fighting for solo instances. I just want to give folks something to chew on.
Brenlo (12:19 PM) :
Hey I don't mind if you do. I think they would be great. It's just a matter of time to put them in.
Woody (12:19 PM) :
It's a lot of work and folks need to realize that.
Brenlo (12:19 PM) :
Well they want to hear Yes and when they don't they get disappointed.
Woody (12:19 PM) :
**nods**
Woody (12:20 PM) :
So, just because solo instances are not going in soon does NOT mean they won't be examined for possible future addition to the game right?
Brenlo (12:21 PM) :
Correct
Woody (12:21 PM) :
And, the current answer to solo content for folks with only a limited time to play is pretty much going to be the task system right?
Brenlo (12:21 PM) :
For now, yes the task system will be the solo outlet
Woody (12:22 PM) :
It won't be purely solo though? There will be tasks that require a group?
Brenlo (12:25 PM) :
Yup they are solo for now. You can do them in groups but they are made for solo playing.
Woody (12:25 PM) :
And that won't be overly affected by race/class/level/faction?
Brenlo (12:26 PM) :
Nope it should not be. It will not be all new dungeons and such. Just thinks like, bring me 5 bear skins and a shrubbery. Although depending on your level they may leave out the shrubbery. =P
Woody (12:27 PM) :
And are the tasks designed with a "certain amount of time to complete" in mind?
Brenlo (12:34 PM) :
There will be a time limit to complete tasks and a time limit between getting tasks.
Woody (12:35 PM) :
Oh. I meant "okay, each task should take about 2 hours to complete. Let's design around that."
So, If I logged in and only got half of the task done before I had to log out... I might only have so much time to finish it when I log back in?
Brenlo (12:36 PM) :
We are shooting for a 1 hour completion time on average.
Brenlo (12:36 PM) :
That is what they will be built around.
Woody (12:37 PM) :
There will or will not be a timer on all of them/some of them?
Brenlo (12:37 PM) :
There will be a timer. Not decided if it will be all or some yet though.
Woody (12:38 PM) :
Honestly, I hope it's not mandated on all of them. Sometimes... poop happens.
Brenlo (12:38 PM) :
Yeah it does. =)
Woody (12:38 PM) :
So at release the task system is going to address approximately level 1 to 50?
Brenlo (12:41 PM) :
That is the current plan. And then we will add more tasks as we can.
Woody (12:41 PM) :
**nods**
Woody (12:42 PM) :
Will the "quest" system slowly be transitioned to the task system? (since redoing all the old quest would be virtually impossible)
Brenlo (12:43 PM) :
Hehe good question. There are plans to try and expand the task system, but nothing is firm yet.
Woody (12:44 PM) :
The task system will only be made available to those that purchase OoW?
Brenlo (12:44 PM) :
For now, yes.
Woody (12:44 PM) :
Maybe no in the future?
Brenlo (12:45 PM) :
No plans yet but you know how that goes.
Woody (12:45 PM) :
Yeah.
Woody (12:45 PM) :
The rewards will be item based? Points based? But not experience based?
Brenlo (12:48 PM) :
You will recieve experience as well as other rewards. The other rewards are still being determined.
Woody (12:49 PM) :
Are we talking considerable experience? Like, the ability to level by only doing tasks? Or just a side thing to keep folks occupied when they only have limited time?
Brenlo (12:50 PM) :
That I really do not know yet. No idea as to how much a reward will be.
Brenlo (12:50 PM) :
My personal thought is that it would have to be eqivalent to 1 hour of fighting creatures. That is just my thought.
Woody (12:51 PM) :
**nods** That's variable depending on class. But I understand the answer.
Woody (12:52 PM) :
So, since the rewards aren't finalized yet, it'd be hard to answer whether item rewards would be vendorable, or on par with decent gear appropriate for that level.
Brenlo (12:52 PM) :
Yeah, at this point I could not answer that.
Woody (12:53 PM) :
So, does SOE have a "goal" in mind for the role the task system will fill?
Brenlo (12:55 PM) :
Yes actually, we want it to provide enjoyment for people that only have an hour or so to play. Or something to do while waiting for a group.
Brenlo (12:55 PM) :
Sort of a combination of short play time option and time filler for others.
Woody (12:56 PM) :
Will the Task system eventually replace the quest system or will the two both continue to be developed and added to?
Brenlo (12:56 PM) :
nice try =) No idea yet. For now both will coexist side by side.
Woody (12:56 PM) :
**shrugs and grins**
Brenlo (12:57 PM) :
*chuckles*
Woody (12:57 PM) :
There will be a UI front end on the task system yeah? Not just text scrolling by on a screen?
Brenlo (12:59 PM) :
Yes it is planned to have it's own interface.
Woody (01:00 PM) :
What exactly will the interface communicate? Folks will see their progression through the task? Will be able to "abandon" a task before completion?
Brenlo (01:02 PM) :
By the way I responded to your questions on the leader board before I saw your post on your boards. =P
Woody (01:02 PM) :
That doesn't suprise me. I'll make sure the folks know.
Brenlo (01:04 PM) :
You will be able to cancel a task you have selected.
Woody (01:04 PM) :
And restart it later?
Brenlo (01:05 PM) :
Not that specific task but you can get another.
Woody (01:06 PM) :
Ahh. Hmm. So, if I have an hour to complete a task. And actually find a group, I can either let the time expire and lose the task. Or abandon the task and lose the task.
Woody (01:07 PM) :
In other words, if poop happens... we lose the task. **grins**
Brenlo (01:07 PM) :
Yeah for now that is the system.
Woody (01:08 PM) :
Gotcha. **nods**
Woody (01:08 PM) :
SOE is currently talking about possibly removing the based number in a group requirement for LDoN zones?
Brenlo (01:09 PM) :
It is being talked about. Purely discussion though.
Woody (01:10 PM) :
What's the general feeling on it? Unlikely? Possible? Can't say?
Brenlo (01:11 PM) :
Can't say. =)
Woody (01:11 PM) :
Would a level 65, even though the reward might be negligable, be able to go back and do a level 5 task?
Brenlo (01:12 PM) :
They do not get to select task level so nope. The task will be generated for their level.
Woody (01:13 PM) :
Ahhh! So it's not a set list of tasks. It's a task generated based on the level of the task initiator.
Brenlo (01:18 PM) :
Yuppers! And it will not simply be kill this or collect that
Woody (01:19 PM) :
Alrighty, I've had your attention for an hour now. So, any last words on solo instances? solo-content? the task system? Or any random info you want to add to shore up the grumpy footing the community seems to be standing on right now?
Brenlo (01:20 PM) :
Last word on Tasks? I think they will be a better solution than solo instanced zones as they do not remove you from the community aspect of the game. You will still be free to participate in area chats and interact with those around you while advancing your character in short play sessions.
Thanks Woody.
Woody (01:20 PM) :
Thanks Brenlo.
Source here - http://www.gucomics.com/news/solo_chat_transcript.php
Some random thoughts..
QuoteThere will be a time limit to complete tasks and a time limit between getting tasks.
Hope the time limit between finishing a task and selecting another one isn't too long..
QuoteLast word on Tasks? I think they will be a better solution than solo instanced zones as they do not remove you from the community aspect of the game.
An indication that solo instanced zones are not going to materialise now? I know they've stated they are not planning on doing any anytime soon, but this sounds like they've already made up their minds about them.
Okay... solo tasks >>> solo instanced zones. I like this because it allows for a vast expanse to explore instead of tiny little subzones that lie completely empty unless someone starts them up.
I love exploring... which is why I hated half of the expansions lately being instanced, keyed, or flagged.
OoW better have lots to explore.
I like the task system idea, but I would still LOVE to see solo instanced LDoN. I am the solo player who kinda wishes there was a goal to reach, like you have with an LDoN adventure.
I hardly ever have the time to commit to grouping anymore at all. I love the LDoN's, but I never know if I will have enough uninterrupted time to really contribute to a group. An instanced solo adventure would be perfect for me.
Haven't been following development. What's this 'task' system?
This task system doesnt really sound like what players have been asking for when they wanted solo LDoN. Actually, it sounds nothing like it.
Who knows though, maybe it will be cool. Odds are my 43 bst will be over lvl 50 by the time it goes live, ho hum.
he said it was geared towards lvl 1 to 50...if so thats almost a complete waste, the majority of almost all server populations are 50+
"Generated" means random. So no chance of any kind of roleplaying reason for the character to do any of this; no themes, and no progression from one task to any other, or relationship between any of the tasks. Just gather random components for a random NPC to get a random piece of gear.
The one-hour time limit and (apparently) unrelated and unprogressive quests ensures that the rewards will be crap. What are the odds that any of the task rewards will be better than what that level character could get from spending the same amount of time farming silk?
Limited to level 50 -- and apparently the rewards will primarily be experience. Just a way to get through the "transition" levels as fast as possible so that you can start playing the "real" game at the high levels?
And what was the "something to do while waiting for a group" stuff about? What if you get a group call 20 minutes into a task? Or what if you're trying to put a group together and people start telling you: "Be there in 20 minutes or so, hold on." I assume these task components will be random drops, so there may be absolutely no way to accurately estimate how much time the last few items will take. If the task rewards are any good, you won't want to quit until you're done; if the rewards are so crappy you couldn't care less about quitting when you're nearly done, what was the point in the first place?
Is there a place SOE headhunts for the people who design this kind of stuff, or do they internally train employees to come up with ideas that are as unimaginative, pointless, boring and aggravating as possible?
Quote from: ChackraSo no chance of any kind of roleplaying reason for the character to do any of this
There hasn't been any roleplaying reasons to do anything in Norrath of late. Look at the LDoN expansion. Bunches of odd ball mercenaries standing around in the Kaladim area doing as they please with total indifference from the Dwarves. Like, WTF? When did Dwarves and Ogres become buddies? Why do Freeport citizens have to beg and scrape to the Wayfarer morons just to gain access to area's where there's an enemy threatening their city? I guess Lucan is on holiday, eh? Why are a bunch of rag tag nobodies having a hand in Norrath's future, and not the Elven Council, or the greatest minds in Erudin? And the Dark Elves have suddenly forgotten about the Grozmek stone - didn't the story at one point hint that they were about to get involved? Guess I must have had a Bobby Ewing moment and dreamt it up.
Treat expansions as what they actually are - a means to get loot and experience. Reason went out the window a long time ago sadly, and with it, the Lore.
Sounds really lame but since it's under 50 & I'm not, it could sound insanely cool & not do me a damn bit of good. Just lower the requirement to start an ldon to one person, problem solved.
--Kreseth
What SOE are trying to deal with is that to make solo LDoNs fair and balanced, is that they need a way for non-soloing classes to use them. Else it isn't balanced.
Adventures aren't as dynamic as you might think - each map is pre-generated, and mob placements for each of the 11 (? I think) variations have been hand made. Choice between maps is random, mobs placement is determined by average group level. This is a good thing, mostly - I know that I would hate completely random maps, for a start. They really ought to have a way to scale mob density according to group size, but I can understand that this is something they didn't want to consider.
Thinking about it, I am pretty certain that I couldn't kill enough mobs in 90 mins to win a kill mission (one mob every 90 secs, roughly), not sure about collects, and I know that an assasinate or rescue would be out of my league.
'Tasks' I would guess will be based on SWG missions. I hope somewhat better, because I wasn't too happy with them. Get a mission from a terminal, you choose from a long list - some are kill, some deliver a letter, and maybe some other types. The postal missions weren't worth doing, too low return for the time invested; and kill missions were ok. The 'nest' of mobs was generated when you got the mission, and I am not sure how well this would fit into the more deterministic world of Norrath.
Unless it's a lot better, I won't like it. :)
Between 2 almost full accounts, I have 3 characters below 49, and one of them is a mule. All the rest are 50+. I currently don't raid, can't get groups for LDoNs (because I don't like the 2 hour set up times) - but I'm still having fun.
Quoteif so thats almost a complete waste, the majority of almost all server populations are 50+
This comes up a lot, and it shouldn't. SOE are the only people in a position to know what their server pops are, and so we have to accept what they say. Based on playtimes, ignoring Bazaar mules, they say that the majority of mains are 30-50 (or 55, depending on where you saw it). People who post on boards tend to be hardcore 65s, and go to zones where you only see other 65s - or assume that all the lower chars in PoK are alts. All I know is that my first guild still has more or less the same people in it, and the highest is about 52, three years on.
Quote from: LorathirQuote from: ChackraSo no chance of any kind of roleplaying reason for the character to do any of this
There hasn't been any roleplaying reasons to do anything in Norrath of late. Look at the LDoN expansion. Bunches of odd ball mercenaries standing around in the Kaladim area doing as they please with total indifference from the Dwarves. Like, WTF? When did Dwarves and Ogres become buddies? Why do Freeport citizens have to beg and scrape to the Wayfarer morons just to gain access to area's where there's an enemy threatening their city? I guess Lucan is on holiday, eh? Why are a bunch or rag tag nobodies having a hand in Norrath's future, and not the Elvan Council, or the greatest minds in Erudin? And the Dark Elves have suddenly forgotten about the Grozmek stone - didn't the story at one point hint that they were about to get involved? Guess I must have had a Bobby Ewing moment and dreamt it up.
Treat expansions as what they actually are - a means to get loot and experience. Reason went out the window a long time ago sadly, and with it, the Lore.
Some of that stuff is explained, and other parts of it might be. For example, the story basically said that the dark elves started planning something, which they very well could be doing. Lots of stories introduce subplots and then don't resolve them immediately. This can work just fine as long as you don't directly contradict the subplot before resolving it. That hasn't happened yet. It's not like the story had them marching on Freeport one week and the next week they were doing something else.
Additionally a lot of the wayfarer NPCs will tell you how they got swept up in the adventure that Morden Rasp offered, and that's why they forgot some of their old prejudices and hatreds. I remember specifically talking to some ogre or troll who said that he came to believe in what morden rasp had to offer and became something of an outcast among his own people, and was surprised that he could get along with some of the shorter races. This was either at one of the camps or in Nedaria's or Abysmal.
personally i hope the epic quests are solo instanced. the actual skill/gear/tactics of the player is challenged instead of a raid/group.Also removes any Bottleneck situations like the old cleric epic. Snaps for Solo Instances /snaps***
Like Luke Skywarker in ESB. In the cave you must go. Your weapons you will not need them!
QuoteFor example, the story basically said that the dark elves started planning something, which they very well could be doing. Lots of stories introduce subplots and then don't resolve them immediately.
Yeah, fair enough that's a good point. I don't believe it will transpire though. Colour me pessimistic! :wink:
QuoteI remember specifically talking to some ogre or troll who said that he came to believe in what morden rasp had to offer and became something of an outcast among his own people, and was surprised that he could get along with some of the shorter races.
Yeah, that guy is in Nedaria's, on the jetty. I could possibly go along with the notion a Barbarian could get close enough to an Ogre to talk with him if the Ogre was alone and tied up. More inclined to believe the Ogre would try to eat the Barb as soon as he saw him though.
What about the Iksar - Troll - D.E. - Gnome - High Elf - The Innoruuk worshipping Necromancers - The ideology of hatred, or fear, or trickery and deception. A lifetime of teachings, morality, worship and chaos. All dissipated because a Barbarian had a way with words? Uh uh, I don't buy that. Maybe - *maybe* - if it came from an Erudite in their infinite intellect - or a Dark Elf with their cunning. But a Barbarian? Who has amassed a veritable army of people's who have traditionally hated each other for hundreds - thousands of years? Nah.
Even if that was possible, how is there a Wayfareres camp set up in Everfrost, on the doorstep of Halas? Halasian's are not exactly known for their tolerance of evil races. And they are not exactly too chicken to stomp into that camp, kick their asses into touch and plunder The Maw of the Menagerie and set up cigar and ale shops.
Racial tension has no place in real life of course. But in Norrath it needs to come back with a vengeance. It's not just the Wayfarers that have let this concept down - every time I run through POK I shudder. How can someone have the title of Heretic or Pathfinder when they are obviously ignoring the teachings of their ancestors. Nope, you cannot pass all these things off with any feasible IC explanation.
Wow, I totally derailed my thread. :oops:
I guess all I could add is that it's always been the case that while various races/classes have natural enemies, they have been willing to overlook certain people and even ally with them if they prove themselves. The wayfarers may have evil races, but they aren't doing evil things, so it's not impossible for Halas and Kaladim to tolerate them nearby.
For example, Iksars hate humans (and everyone else). However, a human PC can do faction work and wander around Cabilis without incident. Conceptually, there's nothing saying that the wayfarers haven't somehow demonstrated that they don't pose an imminent threat.
Besides, even if the barbs and dwarves did hate the wayfarers that doesn't mean that they would just invade them at will. Put another way, why does Halas allow Redwind and the snow orcs to have camps so close? Or the ice goblin igloos? Wouldn't the Wolves of Halas or whomever just wipe them out forever? Near just about every city there are "camps" of evildoers that the city apparently never does anything about. It's a bit of suspension of disbelief that's somewhat necessary in order for the players to have something to do. :) The races police their own cities and certain outposts, but they don't go cleaning up the countryside en masse. That's for the PC's to do.
I imagine SOE might well slap some sort of backstory onto the tasks, but I don't really care one way or the other about "lore" -- when I want a story, I read a novel.
What I want is some sort of purpose, and hopefully meaningful choices. Maybe helping out one NPC will get me great faction with some group but maybe keep me from getting tasks with another NPC, or maybe helping one NPC will eventually lead to really great sleeves, but that means I can't take tasks that would eventually lead to great gloves, etc. There's no reason that tasks couldn't eventually turn into solo (or small group) mini-epic quests.
And there should be some sort of in-game mentor or some way of knowing how to make those decisions before I begin, rather than facing the previous EQ quest Hobbes' choice of either talking to dozens of random NPC's and using a spreadsheet to sort through their random gobbledygook and then spend hundreds of hours getting bags full of crap to turn in to see if anything useful happens, or just looking them up at cheat sites.
But I'm not that picky, I just want some reason to be doing one thing as opposed to any other way of getting loot and exp. I'm pretty sure that random tasks from random NPC's to give random gear (which, apparently won't even be as good as what I can buy in the bazaar) won't fill that bill.
Lore isn't just text you read Chackra - it defines your purpose, and the reason for everything you interract with. If lore is fuzzy, so is your purpose. If lore makes sense, your purpose is defined. You already care about lore -
QuoteWhat I want is some sort of purpose, and hopefully meaningful choices. Maybe helping out one NPC will get me great faction with some group but maybe keep me from getting tasks with another NPC, or maybe helping one NPC will eventually lead to really great sleeves, but that means I can't take tasks that would eventually lead to great gloves, etc.
Faction is lore. There's a reason why killing Bard's makes Gorenaire happy.
Quote from: HerekiWhat SOE are trying to deal with is that to make solo LDoNs fair and balanced, is that they need a way for non-soloing classes to use them. Else it isn't balanced.
Not trying to be offensive here at all, but if people want to solo, then choose a class that can solo. Don't choose a warrior and then whine that you can't solo.
It's about balance. Why add game mechanisms that benefit solo classes exclusively? You can't whine about non-soloing classes in that way.
Quote from: BengaliPut another way, why does Halas allow Redwind and the snow orcs to have camps so close?
Funny you should mention this Bengali.
*EQ2 Lore Spoiler alert*
Snow Orc's defeated Barbarians and ravaged Halas - the majority of Barbs gave up Halas and retreated.
I think it would be relatively easy to make solo instances for non-solo classes if Sony just used some imagination. The problem with having only a hammer is you attack every problem as if it is a nail.
They need to break the mold of editing mobs and mob ability to create situations. All they have to do is invent new ideas.
For instance (no pun intended):
In the warrior solo instanced dungeons you could have an npc woven into the plot that heals you as you fight, but does nothing else. Let it have a limited mana pool and it sounds like a good idea to me.
Maybe rogues could have solo instanced dungeons where they get exp for picking locks and disarming traps. They could get exp for stealing "loot" from the dungeon. Maybe they could also hav mobs in their dungeon that its possible to do extra backstab damage on if you sneak up on them.
I know these suggestions sound kind of crazy, but thats just what I came up with in the 30 seconds I thought about it. Surely Sony employees could brainstorm and come up with something a lot better.
From what I've read, yes, the tasks will only be up to level 50 at OoW launch. But they WILL be up to level 70 eventually...they just won't be able to complete it at launch and they'd rather have the tasks available for, I assume, those who have the hardest time finding groups since everyone is so high level now...
Game on,
Here is the way I see it. Solo content is gonna be needed. On Povar the "Big" guilds have noticed a steady decrease in member participation ( read: folks are not logging in to EQ). Many new games are taking players away from EQ. WoW, CoH, SWG ( yes its getting better ), EQ2 even.
Solo play in EQ is going to be more commonplace as these new games sap the "Group play" out of this aging game. Dont get me wrong, I still plan on playing EQ but those folks who have "Seen it all" are losing interest, and understandably so.
Group play is what EQ was built on, what it relied on, and group play only will be its downfall. If the "guilds" break down so will the ability to reach the end game content. If the younger players view the end game content as unattainable then they too will depart for greener pastures.
This limit of level 50 for the solo content will of course not keep THESE big guild folks around for this expansion. This needs to increase. IF this is the only solo content for OOW.
Fix is simple imo. LDON style instances with difficulty based on the number of players in the group. Players dictating the difficulty based on the groups avg level and number. This game can still be based on group play but it must bear in mind that groups are going to become smaller as this game ages. Maybe down to 2 friends going on adventures.
My 2 cp.
Fajing Shenlung
65 BST
Forces Unknown
Povar
So... rather than fix the quest system to give real rewards for your effort, you have yo buy an expansion to get a bunch of (supposedly) good RvR quests to level up your alts?
Instead of killing a Crushbone orc and turning it's belt in in exchange for a small lantern,and some exp, I can kill a Crushbone ork and turn it's belt in for... points to buy a small lantern with, and some exp?
Wheee
QuoteOkay... solo tasks >>> solo instanced zones. I like this because it allows for a vast expanse to explore instead of tiny little subzones that lie completely empty unless someone starts them up.
So long as the
REWARDS are
decent.
If at L50 (the max for now) you get the equiverlent of 1 x light blue kill exp and a rusty short sword that's not going to be so good! :shock:
(and this IS SoE remember. :lol: )
We'll have to see how it is implemented.
The things for solo LDoN zone were decent solo exp, decent solo loot and LDoN points, always being able to get a solo 'camp', useful for short playtimes and when LFG and the fact it could be taliored to allow classes that otherwise cannot solo (in a normal environment) to get some solo exp.
Against solo LDoN: time to impliment and lack of social interaction.
If tasks give all those positives (except LDoN points)
AND the ability to still interact with other people and explore Norrath (in an entertaining way) they'll be
GREAT. :)
If it's just run all over norrath for the 100th time for an hour and get 1% Exp and a rusty sword that'll be pretty DIRE. :(
Remember Trep's quest?
Gave around 4% at 35 down to 1% at 51, if I recall correctly - plus you profited around 60pp from your initial investment of 20pp, and it took about 20 minutes if you could gate.
Before it was nerfed, it was the primary leveling mechanism for day time play clerics and rogues.
I'd hope for something a little better, and not just a shopping list that not all races could buy, but that's ok for the scale of reward; a little less than you should get in a decent group.
I think the solo LDON should be looked at seriously- this task system seems to be no more than short simple quests with a time limit-and worse no way to plan out your rewards as in the LDON layout-
I do 40 Guk missions because I have my eye on the Tunic, for example- in this task system it's just random ho-hum, nothing to work towards kinda stuff that'll like be very much like the flopped tribute system.
solo missions have been available for years in Anarchy Online, but in that system you had your circuit board which basically acted as your adventuring stone - and as more missions were done it got better- the rest of the loot was random and found in chests-
What made LDON better was you had the same thing in the adventure stone but the loot sat on merchants, could be examined and planned on-
If the task system lacks this then it just doesn't sound too exciting to me. I don't want to have to depend on random rewards I might not want or need- I want something to work toward.
Quote from: LorathirQuote from: BengaliPut another way, why does Halas allow Redwind and the snow orcs to have camps so close?
Funny you should mention this Bengali.
*EQ2 Lore Spoiler alert*
Snipped
Noooooooooooooo.... the orcs are there for a challenge for appropriately leveled players in the Everfrost area.
Regarding EQ's lore ... the whole background was so shallow and pathetic to start with it's really not worth the bother. There are LOTS of well detailed, well developed, wonderfully written fictional worlds out there. Norrath is not one of them.
I really hope SoE think long and hard about OoW beore releasing it. From what I have heard about it so far they are just going around repeatedly stabbing themselves in the foot.
Task only available upto lvl 50 at release !!! HELLO McFLY *tap**tap* so that excludes 65% of the people who play Everquest. SoE you are absolute friggin geniuses.
If the only thing I can get out of this is an extra 5 levels , dubious aa's and some locked zones , GoD is the last expansion I get.
Quote from: Fajing
Group play is what EQ was built on, what it relied on, and group play only will be its downfall. If the "guilds" break down so will the ability to reach the end game content. If the younger players view the end game content as unattainable then they too will depart for greener pastures.
Hi Fajing,
I see solo LDONs as a great idea. I also see your point. However...
IMO, a majority of total EQ players are not members of high-end guilds and will never be able to have a play-style that allows them to be a member. If EQ is to survive it needs a way for the casual player 50+ to be able to get some meaningful return for their style of play (1-3 hrs/session). If they don't do this then the majority of players may leave to try a new alternative (WoW) that is (hopefully) more suited to their playing needs.
I think SOE has seen this very real possibility and is moving to avert Doomsday by catering more to the casual player.
Cheers,
Baklum
Baklum Chaam
57 Vah Shir bst
terris-thule
Sorry but I must post this. Boring day here at work and this thing just bothers the hell out of me!
Goretzu, why oh why must you insist on either bolding, italicizing, underlining, or CAPITALIZING at least one word in every sentence you type? :roll: Practically *any* human being with at least half a working brain can pick up on when and where a word is stressed to make emphasis!
Again I apologize. No ill-will meant towards you at all, really. Just thought maybe you could tone it down and not overuse those things.... please :D
I'm sorry dana, but your post makes no sense to me. I see 2 faces bolding, italicizing underlining capitalizing the word "any" and the word empahsis. Perhaps you could re-post that with more exlaimations points, some larger font in places and maybe arrows like these
~~~~~~~> <~~~~~~
to help make your point. 8) As it is I keep reading your post like an actor practicing his lines...
Sorry BUT I must post THIS!!
hrmm hrmm
SORRY!! but I MUST!! post ...THISSS!!
no no...
Sorry, but *I* must post THIS!!
QuoteGroup play is what EQ was built on, what it relied on, and group play only will be its downfall. If the "guilds" break down so will the ability to reach the end game content. If the younger players view the end game content as unattainable then they too will depart for greener pastures
Actually on release EQ catered very well to the solo/casual player- it wasn't really til the release of PoP did we start getting expansions heavily focused on flagged zones and high raid end content with little thrown in for the solo character, and worse, when an expansion came out with solo content later (LoY) the mobs again where geared for 60 or lower, had high AC and regen which assumed the typical player had the better high end gear a raider's alt might have.
At least when velious and Kunark was released it had content balanced for both- worse yet OOW realy is for alts too- zippo again for plus 60 players- and that's what's wrong with this thinking- once you go 60 plus you raid or your options go out the window- I don't think I've ever seen an RPG designed that way- where as you level and get more powerful you actually have less choices.
Even all the loot available in LDON or the bazaar is geared toward 60 or lower- the casual player is forced to play 65 in it or raid- or jump to FV server- that's just crazy.
QuoteIMO, a majority of total EQ players are not members of high-end guilds and will never be able to have a play-style that allows them to be a member
I kind of believe the casual players doesn't last too long once they hit 65- they either quite through being bored with few things to do or they create an alt and do the whole thing again with a tweaked character- sadly this is where eq loses the most players, and when these players sees expansions narrowly focused that excludes them they are almost pushed to quit- when are we ever going to see the heavy content well rounded and balanced expansions of Kunark, Velious and Luclin again, that include all in the design?
QuoteIf they don't do this then the majority of players may leave to try a new alternative (WoW) that is (hopefully) more suited to their playing needs
I'm keeping my eye on both WoW and EQ2- At least WoW is looking to be a solid release and the beta players are raving about it but I have serious reservations as well- If they make play too simplistic then your going to end up with a player base like on battle.net- and it won't matter how good the game is, players like us in EQ won't be able to stand it- To get the idea of what I mean go into any store and pick up a copy of Anarchy Online for 4.99- it'll have a 30 day free trail-
Here you had a game unplayable on release because of bugs- 2 years later that's all fixed- and you now have a game much more solid than EQ- almost as large- the design better in many ways- and a player base so bad your never last the free 30 days- profanity in ooc, trained in any zone, KS'ing on a level never before seen outside the likes of LinageII-
if this crowd is in WoW that game will not be for us-
As for EQ2- I expect that to be much like SwG- unfinished and broken on release- and probably not worth playing for many months after- if at all
Quote from: ghostryderI kind of believe the casual players doesn't last too long once they hit 65- they either quite through being bored with few things to do or they create an alt and do the whole thing again
/em raises hand
Guilty as charged there. There's nothing for me at 65, but I love the game too much to quit. Hell, beyond 50 the game for me turns to tedium. I don't raid so I have little choice than to roll up and start an alt. I think I've played nearly every class there is. I persevered on Lorathir and got to 65 and thought "Well that's nice. I wish I was 30 again." I dunno - life seemed more carefree back then :)
Sony have already stated EQ1 is their raiding game and EQ2 is going to be their casual game so I doubt very much they are going to put much of a focus into getting a system that allows you to solo a ldon. I think if it eventually does go in, it will be disappointing, through lack of attention on Sony's part.
As has been posted in many threads here, beastlords in the high end game are not as valuable as many other classes. The whole reason my beastlord exists is I wanted a character to get away from the group/raid/XP grind that seems to be Everquest. My main is a cleric (although which character I claim as my main changes frequently). If my guild alliance is going after virtually anything major, the beastlord gets put away and the cleric comes out to play. Face facts, clerics are more valuable to the end game (for the most part, unless you have a ton of them in your guild, which we do not) than beastlords. SD is nice and my cleric is becoming a Paragon junkie, but the mediocre DPS (I'm taking you guy's word for it on the high end....I will never see the true high end with my beast) and limited utility just are not going to justify me parking the cleric and bringing out the beastlord for a higher end raid. Therefor, I want more solo content for my beastlord to do when there are no raids going on and I feel like getting away. The thing that gets me is that SOE forces you to get a group of some type or another just to fill your spell book. Give me a shot at looting a DPoC or a lifetap aug or Protection of Calliev (or whatever the name is) in a traditional zone and I would never care about a solo LDoN. As it is, I will have to go without most anything LDoN related on my beastlord.
And I also agree with whoever said that if you want to solo, play a solo class. If solo LDoN's are ever implemented, I could care less if my cleric ever tries to run one. I wouldn't expect her to be able to do any solo content, just like she can't now. Her place in in a group or raid, and she is extremely valuable in those situation. My beastlord is not....she is at home by herself or duoing with a friend in some out of the way zone. If you can't solo a character anywhere else, why should you think you should be able to in a solo instanced LDon adventure?
It just seems to me that not having solo LDoN's either keeps my beastlord from getting spells and items that she should have access to or forces me to do things with her that I don't want to do (like beg for pick-up LDoN groups). I suppose I have the best of both world with both the arguably most desired group class and the arguably best solo class. I just hate to see the beastlord go without things due to the nature of the class. Week in and week out, I think I enjoy playing the beastlord the most, but probably log twice as much time per week on the cleric to help my guild alliance do things.
Just my 2 cp...take it for what is is worth.
In 5 years of EQ, I have never leveled a non-solo class over lvl 20.
All my lvl 65's can solo. (bard, druid, shammy, sk) I don't think I'm the only person in the game like this. In fact, I think there are lots of us out there. Sony would do well to cater to this and release solo instances.
Quote from: AlerkaIn 5 years of EQ, I have never leveled a non-solo class over lvl 20.
All my lvl 65's can solo. (bard, druid, shammy, sk) I don't think I'm the only person in the game like this. In fact, I think there are lots of us out there. Sony would do well to cater to this and release solo instances.
I played, off and on, more than half of the time since release, but until BL's came out I never got any character over level 30. It always seemed crazy to me that characters in a role playing game started out being independent and powerful compared to the mobs they had to face, but then ended up huddling together in groups hoping they don't get stepped on after they got to the highest levels.
My problem now is I don't want to play any other class; SOE hasn't done anything to improve the "transition levels", so I don't want to start over again; and I can't make much progress now unless I quit playing the game I always liked and start raiding -- which is never going to happen. Something like a third of the game (and the vast majority of the newest content) is off limits to me.
It always seemed to me that EQ is designed to punish soloers. They claimed it would be a lot of work to adjust LDON based on the number of players. Um, drop the MOBs one level for each person the group is less than 6, reduce aggro radius, then make the kill numbers required to win proportional to the number in the group? Whew, that was tough; I'd better take off early today. That was about 90% of the work right there. If SOE says that engine mechanics and graphics additions are tough, I'm perfectly willing to believe them. But to claim that tweaking some zone mob levels and placements would eat too far into their $50 million a month gross income? Give me a break.
I'm sure some classes might do better if they allowed LDON soloing, but why is that unthinkably horrible, while it's perfectly acceptable to set the game up so that some classes have a lot easier time than others finding a group? Sitting around waiting until you have EXACTLY 6 members is a colossal pain, and sitting around waiting until you have a Cleric (as many people insist on doing) is even worse. But SOE refuses to make any concessions at all based on the number of people in the group. That's not "group friendly", that's "solo hostile."
Does anybody have an idea how many people multi-box now? I'm sure SOE has that info somewhere. How many more people would do that if it weren't such a huge PITA? If SOE designed a new class that was as powerful and effective as any duo, but took up two group slots and twice the experience, how many people would pay two fees to play that class? Remember during beta when they initially made the hybrids
slightly more powerful than other classes, but take more exp? They quit because it turned out nearly everyone wanted to play one. (Heh, it's funny how they fixed the "more powerful" issue about two years before they got around to fixing they "more experience" problem.)
I know that's a stupid example; it would make a lot more sense to design a game to be soloable from the ground up, and then let people group when (and if) they want to. SOE was trying to take the opposite approach – to design the game to enforce raiding and/or maximum member and idealized configuration grouping to get as many people hooked on that playstyle as possible, expecting the casual-friendly EQ2 to pick up the slack. They were surprised when a lot of people got get fed up and left early. If WoW comes out before EQ2, I think SOE may be in for a much bigger surprise.
QuoteAnd I also agree with whoever said that if you want to solo, play a solo class. If solo LDoN's are ever implemented, I could care less if my cleric ever tries to run one
This probably is a big concern- if Sony does decide to go with solo LDON I hope they don't just take shortcuts and simply remove some mobs, lesson their argo range and say 'here, now get a solo class and enjoy'
I see no reason why they cannot take some time and balance it for class based missions- for example perhaps lower the dmg and hitpoints if a cleric starts one, or include mana/regen potion drops for a melee class mission and so on-
In other words they should try to include every class even if it takes a lot more work and balancing-
I also would like to add that I have a great deal of admiration for anyone who is able to bring a cleric/warrior and other hard to solo classes up to 65- that takes a lot of patience, work, skill and dedication that most of us lack including myself, so let them include these great players as well in solo LDON.
Quote from: danacondaSorry but I must post this. Boring day here at work and this thing just bothers the hell out of me!
Goretzu, why oh why must you insist on either bolding, italicizing, underlining, or CAPITALIZING at least one word in every sentence you type? :roll: Practically *any* human being with at least half a working brain can pick up on when and where a word is stressed to make emphasis!
Again I apologize. No ill-will meant towards you at all, really. Just thought maybe you could tone it down and not overuse those things.... please :D
Hmm... out of 170 words in that post I:
CAPATIALISED 4 words.
Bolded 3 words (all of which were capitialised ones).
and
Italicised 4 words.
And
underlined 0 words.
8 out of 170. :?
I'm not too sure what you're complaining about.
AND even
IF I
do it too
EVERY other word, you can
just NOT
read it you
know! ;) :P
QuoteIn 5 years of EQ, I have never leveled a non-solo class over lvl 20.
All my lvl 65's can solo. (bard, druid, shammy, sk) I don't think I'm the only person in the game like this. In fact, I think there are lots of us out there. Sony would do well to cater to this and release solo instances.
Yep if you're playing a class that can't solo and you don't have a definate group almost whenever you log on it can get tedious pretty quickly at higher levels.
That's the reason I think that most newer games either are
designed to allow all/most classes to solo or have other ways (missions etc.) to allow players to level if they can't get a group.
The really big advantage solo LDoN would have over the Task system (even
IF it is implemented well) is that as well as solo exp it could have given solo LDoN points which gives not only level and AA enhancment for also gear enchancement options as well.
Quote from: ghostryderQuote
I also would like to add that I have a great deal of admiration for anyone who is able to bring a cleric/warrior and other hard to solo classes up to 65- that takes a lot of patience, work, skill and dedication that most of us lack including myself, so let them include these great players as well in solo LDON.
While my cleric is only 61 and climbing, I have to say that clerics at least are probably the easiest cless to actually level in the game, especially since LDoN came out. Even before LDoN, getting groups was extremely easy for my cleric. The only drawbacks I ever had was when a ton of clerics all hit around my level and were competeing for the groups in the "go here at this level to XP" zones. When this happened, I would play an alt for a couple days, then go back after the rest of the clerics leveled past the particular zone I was in. LDoN took this problem out completely. I can't log my cleric on without getting numurous group offers from folks I don't even know. The major plus side for clerics is they can function in a group at a lower level than about any other class. At 61, I get (and usually take) tons of group offers from lvl 65 LDoN groups that need a cleric. The XP is phenominal (around a full gold of regular XP per 45 min. normal 63+ dungeon).
The down side is you are stuck going to this place at this level to XP. You have to go where the groups are. There is no exploring new places and camping for drops or whatever unless a group of friends happens to be going somewhere. That part gets old at times, and is probably why most clerics in the game have soloing alts of some type or another.
Warriors, SKs, and Pallys don't have too many problems either, as ever group needs a tank. The ones I feel sorry for are the rogues, monks, zerkers, and rangers....who are pretty much stuck needing a group, but are all fighting for that last dps spot with the solo classes. It saddens me when I see a rogue LFG for hours on end. That has to be a horrible way to spend you available game time. These classes could really benifit from some type of specialized solo instance LDoN or whatever.
Don't fret for clerics at least. They are the most wanted group class in the game, and if you have the patients to run pick-up groups non-stop (and are at least decent at playing the class), leveling is a breeze. :)
That hasn't been my experience, exactly.
There are two fixed slots in any group: tank, and healer. If there are more warriors/knights than groups, tanks are LFG; if there are more clerics and druids than groups, clerics can't get groups either. That leaves three classes competing for the slower role, but in 50+ groups only. All other classes can fit in equally in the remaining 3 or 4 slots for dps. A rogue or wizard is far more likely to get a call for a group than a healer/tank when those slots are filled. Beastlord being able to fill both dps and slower means that we have far less of a problem; I get far more calls for groups for my beastlord than my cleric.
Quote from: HerekiI get far more calls for groups for my beastlord than my cleric.
No kidding? The Nameless must have a severe cleric shortage then. Cleric is 61, bst is 62. I can almost guarentee that if I logged the cleric on right now, I would probably have a group offer before I could get plat out of the bank for KEI and turn LFG on (on a side note, how the heck do people I do not even know find out that I am on and send me tells? I do not have LFG on and it really doesn't seems to matter what zone I am in or anything. I just always wondered about that). My beastlord regularly is LFG for a 3 1/2 hour KEI run while soloing with no offers. The only LDoN's she runs for the most part are guild aliance groups when they need "one more DPS, lvl 58-65." Kinda strange.
Cleric, if not /role, also routinely gets more than one tell for temperance/virtue when zoning into PoK at most times of day.
Purrfekshun, do a /who all cleric 60 65 and it will return a list of all clerics in that level range. You might have to narrow the level range if you get too many returns. That's probably how people who don't know you are able to find you. :)
Is there anyone left that starts playing *without* KEI on? The matter-of-factly manner that people talk about getting their KEI before playing is kinda unnerving. I guess SOE bloopered big time on this buff.
Last time I had KEI or VoQ on my cleric or beastlord was the last time they raided - about 3 months ago.
I keep kei up on my druid all the time, but I don't have enough buff slots for kei myself. My chanter is on my main account so he couldn't buff me anyways. I don't even keep Kraggs up anymore :(
1. Shifting Shield
2. Regrowth
3. Celerity
4. Ferocity
5. Spiritual Vigor
6. Skin Like Nature
7. Shield of Thorns
8. Bramblecoat
9. Shared form of the Great Wolf
10. Infusion of Spirit
11. Furious Strength
12. Dexterity
13. Frenzy
My druid doesn't CH yet, so the extra hps from kraggs is mostly irrelevent
I keep one slot open for whatever, I get dotted a lot and its nice not to lose a buff to a dot. Kei is 14 mana and yeah that would be nice, but tween ft9, mc1, sd, and tribute ft5 i'm doing ok without it.
I usually camp out in PoK...force of habit with my Ranger, I guess. Anyway, I try for a KEI if it is available. If it isnt, I adjust my play style and roll without it.
KEI is a nicety not a necessity...for soloing anyway. I do love it, though
:twisted:
Quote from: BulgeIs there anyone left that starts playing *without* KEI on? The matter-of-factly manner that people talk about getting their KEI before playing is kinda unnerving. I guess SOE bloopered big time on this buff.
I guess my view on KEI is, why wouldn't you use it? It's there and I can afford it, so I pretty much always run with it. It is not as important on my bst, especially if I am in a group. But with a cleric with only FT1 and a 6 mana/tick self shielding buff, KEI is just about a necessity just to keep up. If your group has to keep stopping because you are oom all the time, they aren't going to like you much. KEI is a fact of EQ life...I have the 50pp for it, so I get it.
If solo LDoN's come out, the kill rate you will have to maintain may force even you die-hard beast's to use KEI just to be able to complete the dungeons within the time limit. (nice attempt to steer back on topic, huh?)
I don't like KEI at all. I never ask for it, and refuse to go find someone to cast it on me. I will accept it if it's right there in front of me and someone is offering it up (I will even give them a gratuity for it if they volunteer it on me).
My main is a necro so relying on anyone else for anything at all is out of the question (if I cannot cast the spell, and neither can any groupmates, then I wasn't intended to have it on me). I 3 box a necro, beast, and cleric and the beast crack is perfectly fine with me. I also don't look for Virtue or anything either.
I once grouped with 2 friends and some other people and they all laughed at my necro for not knowing what KEI was. The other people all thought I was new to the game or something. But with Lich at 49 I get better than KEI mana regen, and it only gets better the higher I get.
Afterwards I started up my beast and learned that KEI was very nice to have (before the change that made it 46+ only). However, I was unwilling to zone into PoK to get it so I made do without it. It used to amaze me to see people advertize "lvl 36 wizard (with kei) lfg" in Overthere. I felt bad for people that didn't have the funds for KEI on their own and might not have gotten groups because of one spell. I was so happy when they finally fixed it!
Quote from: PurrfekshunIf solo LDoN's come out, the kill rate you will have to maintain may force even you die-hard beast's to use KEI just to be able to complete the dungeons within the time limit. (nice attempt to steer back on topic, huh?)
If SOE just took out things like buff whoring and chain CH'ing but otherwise continued on exactly the same mobflation design course they have always taken, then yes, large parts of the game would become unplayable. That's not what anybody is suggesting. What people are saying is that the game would be more fun if the game "balance" weren't designed to require those things.
I guess at it's core it comes down to a choice between making the game a
logistics challenge (the things you do to prepare before you encounter an enemy) or a
tactical challenge (choices you make when you encounter an enemy.)
Personally, I like the idea of having to be resourceful: encountering an unknown challenge and figuring out how to make due with what you have on hand instead of making sure you have exactly 6 pre-buffed members for an LDON, or a "Holy triumvirate" for boss mobs, or hours of preparing, literally, each step in a raid, etc.
In the real world, logistics is the most important thing in any war. That's one of a great many reasons the real world is boring. It's hard to see why that has to have such a huge role in an "Adventure" game.
QuoteIn the real world, logistics is the most important thing in any war. That's one of a great many reasons the real world is boring. It's hard to see why that has to have such a huge role in an "Adventure" game.
Yup if they make mmorpg's too much like real life everyone will end up being Barbarian Accountants. :)
Some games, like EQ in parts, definately misplace the idea of games = fun sometimes.
I guess it depends how they decide to balance them- mathmatically a solo LDON would have 1/6th the mobs of a mission geared to a 6 member team. That's not all that many mobs-
Honestly I don't see much reason to change the existing ldon structure to allow soloed instances. Just change the number of players required to start an ldon to 1. Folks that can't handle the challenge of a solo normal can do a solo easy instead. Really waht I want though is the ability to start an ldon with my two characters....wouldn't solo but I'd sure duo. I just don't see any point to requiring 3 to start the adventure.
--Kreseth
For some reason 3 is the magic number for SoE to consider you a group. The same holds true for leadership exp as well. With all the husbands/wives that play or father/sons, etc I think duo should get a bit more consideration. Duo was always my favorite way to play the game. *shrugs*
Quote from: TastianFor some reason 3 is the magic number for SoE to consider you a group. The same holds true for leadership exp as well. With all the husbands/wives that play or father/sons, etc I think duo should get a bit more consideration. Duo was always my favorite way to play the game. *shrugs*
Based on the "Holy Trinity", perhaps?
/shrug
Perhaps, but what amuses me is that the larger power gains from adding more people come with lower numbers. To be solo'n as a beastlord simply adding a good rogue can double your group dps. To be solo'n as a beastlord simply adding a healer can more than cut your downtime in half and speed up kills slightly. The shift of going from 1 person to 2 is usually very large and often larger than going from 2 to 3. If you have a tank and healer the third person can be dps or might be cc/puller, but the jump between what one person can solo verse duo isn't nearly as large as the jump between duo and trio imo.
That, of course, depends on what your solo/duo is already, and what you are doing, but the gap between what I can do solo as my beastlord verse duo with my bst + cleric is much larger than what I can do comparing my duo to my trio once I add my nec or enc. Once you get up around 4 or 5 people the jump in performance is even more minor depending on current group makeup.
Absolutely.
I so love my pet druid, though I should have made him a half-elf female instead of a halfing male since he is always tucked under my arm.
It's kinda like when you have one roomate, it saves a lot of money and problems are relatively managable. When there are more than two people, the savings diminish and the problems multiply.
I always have kei and virtue up. Theres no reason not to on a blue server.
On Tallon Zek everyone charges 50pp for kei and 60+pp for virtue. If you asked for a free kei or virt, you would get laughed at. If you offered to donate less than the amount you would still get laughed at. A lot of the times after paying for buffs, they are dispelled or you are killed. hehe
While I still donate 50pp per kei/virt on Veeshan, people who cant afford that can still get kei/virt.
Bluebs have it easy as hell....free buffs.
BTW, I play on a red server and a blue server, so I guess I'm a Purple LOL
Bottom line on solo LDoN: A lot of customers want it. Happy customers mean more money for Sony. Sony is stupid not to make more money.
QuoteIt's kinda like when you have one roomate, it saves a lot of money and problems are relatively managable. When there are more than two people, the savings diminish and the problems multiply
ROFL!
Make that one girlfriend roommate = fun add second real fun!
Back on track- I'd think to be solo doable some changes would have to be made- like argo -
Some rooms are aweful pulls and we beasts don't even have pacify. Now, I could take 2 at once, 3 would be a problem for most- and there's a lot of classes that can't use their pet to split tank- heck a lot of classes don't even have a pet-
we all know how useful a shamans root is in these missions- i can't see a shaman pulling more than 2 without getting in over their heads-
decent aa'd shaman can do a lot better pulling in LDoN than you might suspect, even without being uber geared. Virulent Paralysis is an awesome aa for pulling LDoN's.