DPS Comparison - Staff of Transcendence vs. Dual Wielding

[Rhaynne]

I did some extensive parsing this weekend in an attempt to get a grasp on what kind of damage I am doing with which weapons equipped.  I didn't save the parse logs, but if I do this again, I'll do so.

All parses were 10 minute tests against a static blue con mob to 65 from behind.  Also, all parses were done completely without buffs, without pet and only worn item haste (41%) with 205 worn attack and max weapon skills.

Weapons involved in the parses:

Staff of Transcendence - Not augmented.

Shinai of the Ancients - Augmented with a 150 poison based DD.

Stone Etched Mallet - Augmented with a 125 poison based DD.

Battle Fists - Not augmented.

First parse:  Staff of Transcendence - 63.72 dps
Second parse: Battle Fists + Stone Etched - 57.32 dps
Third parse: Shinai + Stone Etched - 80.01 dps
Fourth parse: Shinai + Battle Fists - 85.04 dps

Now... I was disappointed in the dps with the staff.  It's a clear indication that we do more dps with duel wield, especially considering a Tier 3/elemental drop weapon combo parsed 6 dps less than a Phase 5 Time drop.  What surprised me, though, was the higher dps with the Battle Fists in the off hand.  Stone Etched has a much better ratio and was combat proc augmented.  Now, if we had a 250 cap in 1hb, I am sure this would not be the case at all, so is a good indiction on what kind of effect using 1hb or piecing has on our dps.

[Man0warr]

The numbers would be much closer if you used buffs, its well known 2h benefit alot from high attack, hitting for cap much much more, with 2100 attack i pull that dps with just Greatstaff of Four Winds,  avatar + ferocity

[BitterOldMan]

*cough*brag thread*cough*

[Atropine_BB]

Bragging or not, this is the first thread I've seen posted regarding the DPS comparison of the endgame weapons for beastlords and an actual parse with a staff of transcendance used by a BST.

Kudos Rhaynne!

[Yiktiki]

Wow, real useful comment there oldman.  Its hard numbers on equipment performance.  Nothing wrong with that.  People are always asking what kinda DPS this does vs that.  

On the subject of the original post... I'm shocked.  I would expect the SoT to put out something more significant in teh DPS department.  It'd be nice to see it augmented w/ some juicy slot8 proc, surely you are seeking skewed results because of the added procs.  I suppose its worth digging around coprolith's new spreadsheet, see what works with what.  Thanks for the info though.

[Ukator Iceblood]

Aye thanks for the info!

[Rhaynne]

Proc dps added about 13 dps with the Shinai/BF combo, about 11 with the Shinai/SEM.  Adding another proc to the staff would stand to add maybe 3-4 dps at best.  Maybe when I have ldon pts to throw away I'll check =)

[Grymbok]

The numbers would be much closer if you used buffs, its well known 2h benefit alot from high attack, hitting for cap much much more, with 2100 attack i pull that dps with just Greatstaff of Four Winds,  avatar + ferocity

The parsing work done by Coprolith (archived in our Library does not appear to support the "2HB derives greater benefit from high ATK than dual wielding" theory. I'd certainly be interested to see if you have differing parses.

[Mahes]

*cough*brag thread*cough*

Seriously...that crap's not needed here.  If you can't reply with anything more than a dig at the person, hit the back button on your browser and move on.

As for the parses, thanks.  I think there are many of us in the position to acquire these items that are looking to be sure we're getting the right combo.

It would be easier to get a good idea of the dps difference if the parses were a bit longer and the proc dps was seperated from the over-all.  None the less, the effort is appreciated and it goes to show that the ideal dual combo of shinai and puresteel would just be well beyond the SoT in damage.

We have SoTs on the brink of rotting if the drop again, but I'm trying to hold out for the elusive shinai since it's going to be the better choice in the long run.  The just reaffirms that and tells me I need to be more patient.  :P

As for the fully buffed vs unbuffed and the dps difference, I've always been of the mind-set that the best way to parse weapon vs. weapon is unbuffed.  Add to that the info that was mentioned above about attk not showing a significant increase in dps with 2hb vs 1 handers at that level.

Anyway, I'd love to see a sticky of parses on the same mob, unbuffed, with many different weapons combos spread over a certain time frame.  Something along the lines of what was done on Steel Warriors but BST specific.  Would require some free time and a few people having SEM, BF, Shinai, Puresteel, SoT, REBB, Zha, and perhaps a DoD and Timeweaver.

Thanks again.

[Sempai]

First off, thanks for the post. While disappointing numbers on the SoT, I am glad that someone finally posted a parse on it. Looks like it might only help me when I am tanking.

Could you tell me what mob you were parsing on and any tips or tricks needed to recreate it?

I have wanted to do some parsing myself to try to prove once and for all which is my best setup, and cannot find a good spot to do it.

Edit per the above post which beat mine. I am willing to parse ED/Shinai/Pet Weapon/Caen's if we can agree on some ground rules on how we want to parse.

[Razimir]

Yeah, I want to thank you also. This is the 1st usefull/interesting thread on this forum for me. I'm currently using Zha stick / SPF + DoD combo and kind of considering my options...

One mob for the parsing, which comes into my mind (but a green one), is that guard in NRo (who got a huge regen). You are going to need a tank for letting bst hit from back, but this guard could be an option for parsing. You could do nice and long parses with this guy if you can find a tank (shaman could be nice, for slowing and healing, so you don't need to do it).

-Raz

[Coprolith]

Oh, i do hope you'll save the logs next time, i would have loved to see those dps numbers split out in detail (hit ratios, avg damage, melee dps and proc dps). Feed the parse junkies  8)

From your Magelo i see you have BF5 and Ambi, and you mention the parses were done with 41% haste. From that you can calculate the number of swings you get in 10 minutes and standard errors. I took the liberty of doing that for you.
SoT: ~ 325 swings, 63.7+/-5.0
BF + SEM: ~800 swings, 57.3+/-2.9
Shinai/SEM: ~800 swings, 80.0+/-4.0 dps
Shinai/BF: ~930 swings, 85.0+/-4.0 dps
The difference between the shinai/SEM and shinai/BF doesnt look so spectacular anymore when you add confidence intervals. Technically, you can't even say that there is a difference.

I also took the liberty of entering your stats into my dps calculator spreadsheet.
Im getting these (augmented) dps numbers
SoT: 78.65
BF+SEM: 41.03+27.53 = 68.56
SotA+SEM: 58.86+30.20 = 89.06
SotA+BF: 58.86+29.83= 88.71

The numbers themselves aren't and shouldn't be correct; the mob you parsed against should have higher mitigation and avoidance then the numbers i used in the sheet, so the melee dps will be somewhat overestimated.  Taking that into account, i'd say that as long as you consider the calculated values as ranking numbers they follow the trend reasonably well. The shinai combo's get a much larger fraction of their dps from procs so the overestimation of the melee dps doesnt have such severe impact on total dps. The difference between SEM and BF offhand should be negligible according to these calculations.

Your parses show im on the right track with my spreadsheet. Keep up the good work and keep feeding me data  :)

/hugs

[Trahma]

From Corp's excellent work on this, I have come to the following rules of thumb (sorry Corp - I like to reduce complicated things to 1 line of maths)

2hb theoretical damage is reduced by ~8% when in the hands of a BL compared to hth.


The majority of the loss comes from a lower to hit rate - a smaller part of the loss comes from a lowering of average damage per hit.  The latter can be offset by massive amounts of attack buffing in the hopes of hitting the 'diminishing returns' effect, but there is nothing much we can do about the former.


As an even more loose rule of thumb - if you have ambidexterity, you can basically just add the ratios of your two HTH weapons together, and if it is > than the ratio of your 2hb - you are on a winner.


And finally - I think have both a 2hb and a pair of HTHs.  Aug the 2hb with a life tap and use it when you expect to do any amount of tanking, aug the HTHs with best straight DD procs and use em when you are in a pure DPS mode.


Alas, even though HTH is much more important to the BL, you can pretty much bet that short of a quiet assassination mission around your monk's ISP, you are pretty much just gunna have to put up with what ever you can actually get your hands on.

[Argach]

Hmm, tinkering with Coprolith's excell sheet it looks like Eth Destroyer would give around 58 dps alone in a parse like that - add any decent h2h to off-hand and you'd really blow SoT out of water. Just want to remind people that ED, despite it's crappy ratio and being 1hb, is a serious high-end dps weapon for us.

I'm using ED + CoW and in 2 hours of fighting with 60% uptime in SRT, always fighting from behind and not on slowing duty I managed to pull 175 dps (with pet but without pet procs). And CoW is not really that great, dps-wise...

[Furioss]

Heyas Rhaynne

If you lemme know what mob you were parsing on I can do some tests, currently have the following weapons:

SPF
Zha
Xeg fists
SEM
ED