Didn't see this in the library, so wanted to put something down. Here is what I have gathered from pet pulling.
-The way it works with Melee NPC'S (What I have gathered over time as pet puller)...
1) You send in green pet to attack intended pull.
2) Intended pull aggro's on your green pet and says to his buddies. Greenie here, no need for help.
3) You back off pet & intended pull comes after pet.
4) Once intended pull gets close enough to you (You get in his melee range), the pull will always default to the pet's master -- YOu.
4.a) If the intended pull switches to you and he is outside of his buddies assist radius, the mob is pulled single.
4.b) If the intended pull switches to you and he is NOT outside of his buddies assist radius, the mob says -- 'Oh crap buddies!! Got a live one here!!!' & all of his friends aggro on you.
4.c) This works the same for when the MOB kills your pet. If the intended pull kills your pet (OMG, not the PET!) while he is outside of his buddies assist radius, the intended pull will come single.
4.d) If the intended pull kills your pet while he is inside of his buddies assist radius, the intended pull will bring his buddies.
The way it works with any Caster NPC... A little different here, because the caster has a wider range to default aggro to you, which is basically the maximum range of his spells. (Unless you are out of line of sight)
1) You target the intended pull.
2) You get out of line of sight of the intended pull
-or if you can't get out of line of sight-
2.a) You guard pet at camp site &
2.b) You move the group far far back from camp spot (this distance is greater than the intended pulls casting radius)
1) You send in green pet to attack intended pull.
2) Intended pull aggro's on your green pet and says to his buddies. Greenie here, no need for help.
3) You back off pet, tell pet to follow, & intended pull comes after or casts on pet.
4) Once intended pull sees or gets close enough to you (Within range of his spells), the pull will always default to the pet's master -- YOu.
4.a) If the intended pull switches to you and he is outside of his buddies assist radius, the mob is pulled single.
4.b) If the intended pull switches to you and he is NOT outside of his buddies assist radius, the mob says -- 'Oh crap buddies!! Got a live one here!!!' & all of his friends aggro on you.
4.c) This works the same for when the MOB kills your pet. If the intended pull kills your pet while he is outside of his buddies assist radius, the intended pull will come single.
4.d) If the intended pull kills your pet while he is inside of his buddies assist radius, the intended pull will bring his buddies.
Hope you understand that gibberish, but that is how pet pull is accomplished.
Other tricks & tips I have found that go good with pet pulling...
-Double Shrink yourself/have someone double shrink yourself down to enable your super see through wall vision while standing up against the wall ability.
-Get your single indoor SoW spell from L.Guk LDoN'S if you are going to do any dungeon pulling.
-Get your 64 Rune spell from N.Ro Tak LDoN'S. It will allow the pet better survivability agains hard hitting mobs, as the Rune is not an 'Amount HP Rune', but a 'Amount Hits Rune'. Basically, the Rune goes away after a certain number of hits, not after 100 HP worth of damage is dealt. Like I said. Good for the big hitters.
Let me know what you think or add some info if you like. :)
Good stuff. Only thing I can add is basically if you are grouped with a cleric with BDA or a bard with DA song and Pet Affinity .. you can single pull just about any mob in the game as long as it doesnt have hard linked agro to something else. The challenging part is really convincing your monk raid leader to let you try it =)
Only really do it in a pinch .. last time I had a 6 man group at Redwave and Shadowy Student was up .. and no real decent puller class. Shadowy kinda complicates things with social agro in that area but I pretty much floored my entire group by teaming up with the cleric and yanking it right out of the room single.
"Green pet" in this instance means green to the mobs being pulled.
Vah Shir sneak can be used to reduce your own aggro radius if pulling room is tight.
Mostly I leave the pet pulling red mobs in raids to necro or SK classes, since they get to try again if they screw up.....but I know how.
Quote from: Nusa on February 10, 2006, 09:18:27 AM
Vah Shir sneak can be used to reduce your own aggro radius if pulling room is tight.
Hah! I never thought of using that. Me and a buddy spent a night trying to figure out how I could get the mob's in SolRo to split, since their aggro radius is bigger than my pet attack radius. Awesome, thanks, and I will try that next time I am called to try and split them!
You can pet pull while invised too
I remember using that trick to pull the named kobold for the Qeynos Badge of Honor all the way out of the caves past 30 or so adds. Pet attack, then invis and as long as you avoided getting hit by him and unseen by see-invis mobs we got him single.
Will try invis and sneak next time I'm pet pulling. Had a hard time with it in 69.4 last time I tried cause my poor green warder was getting stunned by the initial flurry of attacks and died at the feet of the target which aggroed the whole room. Was having better luck with a mage pet since it could nuke from outside melee range.
In most of DoD, the level 60 spell pet seems to be green to the mobs & sufficient.. and the few xtra hps has gotten it to me in the red before
Quote from: Kanan on February 10, 2006, 03:15:20 PM
In most of DoD, the level 60 spell pet seems to be green to the mobs & sufficient.. and the few xtra hps has gotten it to me in the red before
60 pet con's 47 right? 62 con's 60 .. the rule is if the pet con is 20 levels below the mob's con level, *and* any mobs that might be in your targets potential frenzy radius, the pet is *green*. So, if you want to yank out a level 80 raid mob surrounded by a couple other level 80 raid mobs, you can get away with the 62 pet actually. If you want to yank out a level 80 raid mob surrounded by level 70 mobs, then you would have to step it down to the spell level 60 pet. etc.
Nice guide Sorrien thanks! Most of that I knew but only from scouring the boards and pestering folks with questions. :-D
After 2 years of playing, I'm still a little lost on determining mob level ranges and picking the right warder to pull. Too low, and warder goes *poof* in a brilliant display of fur/scales along with LOADING PLEASE WAIT..., too high and LOADING PLEASE WAIT...
On the one hand/paw, it's the wipe of a group, on the other, it's just me. Wiping me out isn't a big deal, wiping a group--especially a pick-up--is never a good thing.
Anyone have some rules of thumb--for those without thumbs, any digit will do, or feel free to rip the thumb off a handy mob--for figuring out what'll work?
Thanks! I really needed this. :-D
QuoteAfter 2 years of playing, I'm still a little lost on determining mob level ranges and picking the right warder to pull. Too low, and warder goes *poof*
www.allakhazam.com 's bestiary for your zone, combined with the pet tables on here. Not always 100%, but often.
Thanks Khauruk, but my issue is where is the, um, range if you will. For instance, I know a lvl 38 toon and lower--and I presume the same for mobs--con green to me at 65, but what level range would con green to a lvl 55-61 mob?
I've played around with it a bit, and for the most part can guestimate--was just wondering if anyone had a better rule of thumb is all out. =)
Okay - here's the formula that I think you'd use...
((0.66 x mob level) - 3) should be green, or at least w/in a level or so.
Lately I have begun pulling with my lvl 62 pet and have not been getting adds. Pet runs to targetted mob and hits it, grabbing aggro and then runs back to me with the one mob, even though other mobs are within aggro range of the target. So, have they changed the way pets aggro? Or, is it with higher content that I will need to use a green con pet?
I know I have used this method in Nurga and Dulak (Oceancrasher mobs are still dark blue to me).
I have a couple other useful tools to add to the first post, which is very good BTW. If you are in a group with other HP/AC buffs available, use them. Conviction will stick to a green pet and so will your 1.5 and 2.0 clicky Wunshi and B3. That is over 3K more hp than if you self buffed. The real challenge to pet pulling is keeping the little thing alive. More HP's equals more hits to live.
Another issue that will get your little friend waxed is pathing. Especially DODH. it seems all those zones are horrible for pathing. One way I have found to reduce this issue is to stay close to your pet during the pull and the haul back to the group. The warder runs closer to a straight path than if you sent him to the mob and took off running back to the group and then called the warder back from halfway across the zone. ALSO BY STAYING CLOSER TO YOUR WARDER HE WILL RUN A STRAIGHTER/QUICKER PATH BACK TO YOU WHILE THE MOB WILL GET HUNG UP ON ALL THE FLAWS IN THE ZONE PATHING thus creating some separation for you to set up some pre-slows or whatever. I know it sounds strange but it really works. Take the pepsi challenge and let me know what you think.
Sorry about the caps. They were not intended to highlight anything. My capslock went off and I didn't feel like retyping it : )
Quote from: Doomringer on March 31, 2006, 03:08:55 AM
The real challenge to pet pulling is keeping the little thing alive. More HP's equals more hits to live.
The Feral Guard (Pet rune) line can also go a long way in keeping your pet alive depending on atk speed of the mob.
the biggest things you can do to keep greeny alive are 1) pet rune, and 2) speed enhancement (sow/shrew). HP & rune dont mean much if mob keeps beating on the puppy all the way back to you.
I agree but I was adding to what was already in the original post : )
I've been asked to pet pull before when our normal puller was... out of comission, but I have had to tell them every time that I don't know how. Personally I won't be trying either till i get the suspend minion line to where it allows me to keep my pet wi buffs.
Realistically you need to have /pet hold too. It's not impossible without it, but no fun either.
Here is what i throw on my 54 warder:
SoW/Shrew
Lev (helps avoid some pathing issues)
Vicky
Focus
SV/brells
Feral Guard
Fetter of Spirits (small chance of him procing on initial attack so that the mob comes in snared allowing warder to run away cleanly is worth it)
Growl of the pather (extra 1500hp is second biggest HP buff he can get, plus the 150 hp regen is a help if he does take damage
Spirit of Oroshar (again a chance to proc on initial attack to provide an additional 1 hit rune is worth a chance, secondly he may already have prisim skin from the last fight)
Also to help pet pull:
Replenish Companion - I would also recommend getting replenish companion fully maxed out. Using AA's to heal warder won't transfer agro on to you, so if your warder gets into trouble, drop Replenish to give him some more time to get back to you. Fully hastened it takes 7 minutes to refresh but it is better than pulling with lots of adds cause your warder died.
Pet hold - a must have for control of the warder, no bst should attempt to pull without it.
Timing - The most successful pet pulls are all down to timing, being able to pull pet off after initial hit, but before the mob gets time to hit warder is difficult, but doable.
This thread will become pretty pointless once TSS is released.
Lucky us!
Quote from: Sorien on February 10, 2006, 08:01:10 AM
Didn't see this in the library, so wanted to put something down. Here is what I have gathered from pet pulling.
-The way it works with Melee NPC'S (What I have gathered over time as pet puller)...
1) You send in green pet to attack intended pull.
2) Intended pull aggro's on your green pet and says to his buddies. Greenie here, no need for help.
3) You back off pet & intended pull comes after pet.
Sad to say that green pet pulling is now dead, finished and with a stake through it's heart. SoE in their wisdom decided that when they Nerfed Fading Memories for the bards, they didn't want Pet Pulling to replace it on tough targets, so they whacked pet pulling even worse. If you're not a monk or a bard (or an sk or necro) then SoE doesn't want you to be able to pull. Period.
/mourn
beats me how they decided that something that has been in the game since Omens of War came out is now an exploit :-P
It doesn't have a huge impact in raiding content, because there are always real pullers there. What it does is whack the hell out of our ability to XP solo or in casual groups that don't have a real puller. I hope all the pet classes get together and beat up on them to change it back, but don't hold your breath waiting. We got whacked with a big ol nerf bat this time.
seems to me that pet pulling with a green pet was since LDoN...took them long enough to fix it, regardless.
Quote from: Timberghost on September 21, 2006, 12:30:44 AM
It doesn't have a huge impact in raiding content.... We got whacked with a big ol nerf bat this time.
[/quote]
Wrong, and wrong.
Quote from: Khauruk on September 21, 2006, 12:36:19 PM
Quote from: Timberghost on September 21, 2006, 12:30:44 AM
It doesn't have a huge impact in raiding content.... We got whacked with a big ol nerf bat this time.
Wrong, and wrong.
[/quote]
More details please. No problem with you disagreeing just not sure why.
In most raiding content there are monks and bards who are just better and faster pullers. Other than some exploits people do to cheat by making mobs warp onto them without their bodyguards, I can't see green pet pulling being nerfed having a huge impact on raids. What am I missing here?
I'm not sure why you disagree that we got whacked with a big ol nerf bat. I used to use green pet pulling to solo, but can't any more so soloing just became harder. There are some casual group targets where green pulling was great for breaking up a camp for more conventional pulls if a real puller wasn't around in group. Can't do that any more.
If you think beasties are pissed, you ought to look at the Mag and SK class boards. Mag's have a heck of a time soloing now and SKs are asking what's the point of having a pet at all if it has puny DPS and can't be used to pull.
Quote from: hokarz on September 21, 2006, 05:14:26 AM
seems to me that pet pulling with a green pet was since LDoN...took them long enough to fix it, regardless.
I'm not sure why this was a fix, since it's been an accepted part of the game for years, with never a peep about it being an exploit until this last release. No point arguing with SoE, they're not gonna change it, but it does kinda suck.
The only impact I can see pet pulling having on raids would be something like Shyra. And even then, only a Necro or SK could really do it. I've never been asked to, or heard of, a Beastlord pet pulling on a raid.
Quote from: Timberghost on September 21, 2006, 06:04:36 PM
I'm not sure why you disagree that we got whacked with a big ol nerf bat. I used to use green pet pulling to solo, but can't any more so soloing just became harder. There are some casual group targets where green pulling was great for breaking up a camp for more conventional pulls if a real puller wasn't around in group. Can't do that any more.
We didn't get whacked with a "big ol nerf bat." Pet pulling, as it was, actually sucked for us. The spells took too long to cast, and it was completely unreliable -- if the pet died, we were screwed. If it didn't, good for you, but more often than not (for me), it did. If you had to use pet pulling to solo stuff, I would suggest moving on to other solo targets. I could find plenty of solo places where I could pull everything single for valid XP. As for the casual setting, all that needs to happen is you get a puller. Plain and simple.
**EDIT**
Misread some posts, fixed it.
You do know that you're agreeing with me, right?
In raids, there's always a real puller there, just like I said so not impact in raids. The only impact is solo and in casual groups without a real puller.
Yes, people can pet pull matriarch shyra, but why bother. We use a monk and a bard and it's fast and easy.
The only subject I'm agreeing with you on is that Pet Pulling didn't exist for raids.
Quote from: Timberghost on September 21, 2006, 12:30:44 AM
We got whacked with a big ol nerf bat this time.
This, however, I am
not agreeing with you on.
Quote from: Inphared on September 21, 2006, 06:16:42 PM
We didn't get whacked with a "big ol nerf bat."
There it is once, and here it is again: We didn't get whacked with a "big ol nerf bat."
Timber - Shyra was definitely the most commonly abused pet pulling mob, but there are others. Was pet pulling something done constantly? No, it wasn't. But, being able to trivialize a progression encounter like that, and turn it into a farm raid for Time-level guilds has a huge impact. And for Inphared saying only a necro/SK could do it, wrong. The guild I was in always had a mage do that, and mage pulling trivialized much content.
It's not so much that pet pullling was fast/worthwhile for general raid content, but that it trivialized some encounters that would be **far** out of reach for many guilds.
I think if it wasn't for Mage's fire pets, this probably would have continued to be ignored. But, the furor simply rose to a "fever pitch," and raised enough hell to make it worth the dev's time to fix along w/ tick pulling.
As far as soloing is concerned...well, if I need to pet pull, I won't bother soloing there /shrug...just my style. Are some trophy kills/camps harder now? Yeah...but, oh well. As much as I liked the 'godmode' feeling of pet pullling, it needed to go.
I'll admit that I may have been wrong, but I've never seen Shyra pet pulled, and figure the only way you could get a pet in there effectively was to FD your way to it, hence the SK / Necro suggestion.
/shrug
I've never actually been inside the room w/ Shyra's 2 adds myself, but apparently it's close enough that the fire pet can nuke it. I wonder just what the range on those things are.....
We don't pull her to the Zoneline, you clear to the room right in front of her, and can stand on the other side of the wall, agro free and within leash range and pet pull. Well, used to.
to bad this is nerfed now :-(