Warning all info is VERY early, and subject to alot of changes
http://www.antonius-bayle.org/kumbaja/spells/spell_view.php?id=16806&history=1
Improved Natural Invisibility. Looks interesting, seems to be a targettable version of our self only invis AA, .5 sec cast time no recast timer.
http://www.antonius-bayle.org/kumbaja/spells/spell_view.php?id=16796&history=1
Nature's Salve. This one look like a AA cure that cures (25 to Poison, Disease, Curse) and removes detrimental (15) for us and pet.
http://www.antonius-bayle.org/kumbaja/spells/spell_view.php?id=16802&history=1
Protection of the Warder. AA Vie for us, 5% to 18000 dmg
http://www.antonius-bayle.org/kumbaja/spells/spell_view.php?id=16753
2 Feral Swipe upgrades, one at 500 base dmg other at 600 base dmg
http://www.antonius-bayle.org/kumbaja/spells/spell_view.php?id=16760
Focused paragon 276 mana per tick at max
http://www.antonius-bayle.org/kumbaja/spells/spell_view.php?id=16757
Group Paragon, 420 mana 1002 hp per tick.
http://www.antonius-bayle.org/kumbaja/spells/spell_view.php?id=16763
Attack of the Warders. Upgraded Swarm pet, lasts 75 sec.
http://www.antonius-bayle.org/kumbaja/spells/spell_view.php?id=16764
Taste of Blood upgrade *sigh*
http://www.antonius-bayle.org/kumbaja/spells/spell_view.php?id=16752&history=1
Roar of Thunder upgrade. 3900 Dmg, 5289 deaggro
http://www.antonius-bayle.org/kumbaja/spells/spell_view.php?id=16805&history=1
Focus of Aniums. 25% Spell Resist Decrease for Poison and Disease spells.
There are also upgrades to Raven's Claw and Bite of the Asp, 3500 Deaggro on both.
UPDATE:
Found a few more on the EQPlayers site
Twinproc - 6% chance for a double proc
Tactical Mastery - Strikethrough
Spell Casting Mastery - This one is GREAT if it goes in 10% mana pres on all spells stacks with focus effects
Gift of Mana - They added this line to us, GoM along with its WAY too long named upgrades.
Divine Companion Aura - basically a DA for our Warder
Group Perfected Levitation - pretty self explanitory
Also a few more AAs that hasten other AAs (forceful rejuvenation for one), I can see GoM being useful, free Poison nuke or Werewolf pet, Spell Casting Mastery will be HUGE.
UPDATE:
Spell Casting Subtlety - Am on the fence about this one, great for raiding Beastlords who don't need or want the aggro, but a 20% drop in aggro all the time sux for those times you WILL need to take aggro or tank in groups.
Also had an ability at the end of the list called Twisted Shank - Reduce healing on target by 20% and 400hp dot, although shared with Rogue's so can see it disappearing from the list.
Quote from: Maylian on May 20, 2009, 06:43:50 AM
Also had an ability at the end of the list called Twisted Shank - Reduce healing on target by 20% and 400hp dot, although shared with Rogue's so can see it disappearing from the list.
I didn't add that one cause I have seen it on there for a while, not just now.
Fair enough I don't check that site all that often to be honest.
For utility aa thats shaping up to be interesting. Liking the looks of natures salve for curing ourselves.
I like the debuffs too. While it is easy to ask my wife to hit scent on the mob, the extra debuff be nice too.
Getting the self cures would be awesome. We've not had ability to do some of the curing that other dps classes have had for a few years now.
Meh... Nothing blowing up my skirt. No opinion really tho, will wait for a bit closer to the time I think.
Taste of Blood upgrade
*facepalm*
I guess they are thinking of extending Ferocity and Puma lines then.. Oh wait how about a slow that is only cast by warders and is next to useless and we dont know when it works.
Some of the other stuff interesting.
But still, its way to early to get interested or fed-up with what we might get. We can save that till after it goes live.
Quote from: jitathab on May 21, 2009, 12:46:07 PM
Taste of Blood upgrade
*facepalm*
I guess they are thinking of extending Ferocity and Puma lines then.. Oh wait how about a slow that is only cast by warders and is next to useless and we dont know when it works.
Some of the other stuff interesting.
But still, its way to early to get interested or fed-up with what we might get. We can save that till after it goes live.
With the seeing of mob buffs, it's easy to tell when Pet Slow lands and when it will drop. It's useful on very resistant mobs, since it has a pretty large resist mod on it.
I guess its true that if you use the huge mob debuff box then you can see it.
However he only situations I need anything but good old Sha's is in a raid setting, where other toons, chanters, shaman, are already debuffing the mob and slowing it. Slow doesnt get resisted that much in modern content, sure you get teh odd resistant mob, but its normally dead before slow recycles.
I have used the pet slow a grand total of once, it was in MG, for slowing M.A.R.G.E the 1st week of the expansion. Never needed it since.
Beginnings of a good list.
The curse curing is long overdue, so I'm glad to see it proposed finally.
The poison/disease debuff will be nice too, provided the recast is short. If is is long it would only be really useful on raids and only marginally useful at that. I hope for a shorter recast around the same as asp/gorilla/raven so it could be used every pull or so in a group setting.
Please anyone who has any line of communication with the devs, get them to drop the taste of blood upgrade. Complete waste of development time.
For asp/gorilla/raven upgrade I would like to see a resist mod. I still see them resisted fairly often on group trash even though I almost always have mala on them.
Jit, I use Fellgrip all the time for slowing. I've found it to be very reliable to slow mobs.
Quote from: jitathab on May 21, 2009, 01:05:49 PM
I guess its true that if you use the huge mob debuff box then you can see it.
However he only situations I need anything but good old Sha's is in a raid setting, where other toons, chanters, shaman, are already debuffing the mob and slowing it. Slow doesnt get resisted that much in modern content, sure you get teh odd resistant mob, but its normally dead before slow recycles.
I have used the pet slow a grand total of once, it was in MG, for slowing M.A.R.G.E the 1st week of the expansion. Never needed it since.
I don't use it much either, usually when I feel like taking out old raid content, some of them can be resistant so it has its uses. You can find plenty of UIs that have small target boxes where you can see buffs but doesn't take up half the screen.
Quote from: Sharrien on May 21, 2009, 01:12:24 PM
For asp/gorilla/raven upgrade I would like to see a resist mod. I still see them resisted fairly often on group trash even though I almost always have mala on them.
They do have a resist mod, but it's Physical Resist, so no way to lower it to land better, but good thing is even if it's resisted the aggro is still dropped, its just the secondary effects (DoT, Attack, Stun) that won't affect mob.
The debuff would rock, we lack necro's and its hard to land dots at all on raid targets. I usually just have them loaded for mana recursion, so it would be nice to actually get the full use out of them.
Taste of blood needs to go, such a worthless aa, I haven't bought a rank of it since the first one. I wish they would focus on dropping it or making it useful somehow, and making ferocity actually worth something again.
Paragons. The HP increases on gear, and no fancy tricks with SCRM means they are going to be less useful in relative terms than before. If gear goes up by say 50%. then paragon needs to scale to keep in line. It was the combo of SCRM, and extended duration that added a lot of apparently low figures in SoD. Unless oter tricks are added there is a risk of this starting to drop off.
Thier is a limit to how far "extended" paragon lines can go before it being up all the time.
well... AA dev is responsive, so I'm sure if we can present the quality of upgrade is vastly inferior to last one (the current was was big upgrade. I don't recall %.. Inph did analysis months ago), we'll get a retweaking of it.
Quote from: Kanan on May 22, 2009, 01:20:33 PM
well... AA dev is responsive, so I'm sure if we can present the quality of upgrade is vastly inferior to last one (the current was was big upgrade. I don't recall %.. Inph did analysis months ago), we'll get a retweaking of it.
Nodyin was, will need to see how responsive Elidroth is, since he's the new AA Dev.
Quote from: Camikazi on May 20, 2009, 01:10:05 AM
http://www.antonius-bayle.org/kumbaja/spells/spell_view.php?id=16760
Focused paragon 276 mana per tick at max
http://www.antonius-bayle.org/kumbaja/spells/spell_view.php?id=16757
Group Paragon, 420 mana 1002 hp per tick.
These numbers look way to small for todays game imho. Going by a lvl 85 anything, 25k+mana isn't much, and these two aa's add 0,01 per tick to that. add 5 levels and new gear, 35k would be (sub)norm, and these fall behind even more.
i was hoping for a pet shared health defencive aa that would have rocked.
Quote from: Camikazi on May 22, 2009, 01:34:07 PM
Quote from: Kanan on May 22, 2009, 01:20:33 PM
well... AA dev is responsive, so I'm sure if we can present the quality of upgrade is vastly inferior to last one (the current was was big upgrade. I don't recall %.. Inph did analysis months ago), we'll get a retweaking of it.
Nodyin was, will need to see how responsive Elidroth is, since he's the new AA Dev.
gah.. what I get for not living on the main eq boards ><
Nodyin leave, or just get reassigned? /hopes for latter.
Quote from: Kanan on May 26, 2009, 05:24:46 PM
Quote from: Camikazi on May 22, 2009, 01:34:07 PM
Quote from: Kanan on May 22, 2009, 01:20:33 PM
well... AA dev is responsive, so I'm sure if we can present the quality of upgrade is vastly inferior to last one (the current was was big upgrade. I don't recall %.. Inph did analysis months ago), we'll get a retweaking of it.
Nodyin was, will need to see how responsive Elidroth is, since he's the new AA Dev.
gah.. what I get for not living on the main eq boards ><
Nodyin leave, or just get reassigned? /hopes for latter.
He left to work on DC Universe Online. He not coming back since he has to move to work on DCUO
/sigh.. bleh.. well.. here's to hoping this other person's not another Prathun.
Elidroth seems respectable from the boards. I think we have reason to hope for a good expansion.
Still to early to "feel let down" on Taste of Blood, but everything else looks to be stuff we requested back in March. If you have a "direct line" to a dev., now is the time to help shoot down Taste, and Fero, and Pet Slow, and any of the other crap we don't want continued for stuff we do want continued/upgraded.
Have fero moved to an aura instead. or at the very least made into a group buff.
Noticed a group frenzy of spirit on Kumbaja today that wasn't there before:
http://www.antonius-bayle.org/kumbaja/spells/spell_view.php?id=16171
Quote from: Maylian on May 28, 2009, 11:11:13 AM
Noticed a group frenzy of spirit on Kumbaja today that wasn't there before:
http://www.antonius-bayle.org/kumbaja/spells/spell_view.php?id=16171
That was what was gonna be added with SoD, but GBA replaced it.
iirc, the reasoning for that was that it turned out to be virtually useless.
Quote from: Kanan on May 28, 2009, 02:38:08 PM
iirc, the reasoning for that was that it turned out to be virtually useless.
Exactly....it was a pointless AA idea.
Interesting. I agree with others that the Focused Paragon and Paragon upgrades are too small relative to current and next xpac hp/mana.
I'm curious if we're not looking at FPoS the wrong way - what is it's benefit relative to mana regen, and/or spell cost? With such inflated hp/ac numbers, I doubt that the developers are interested in looking at ratio of total mana-pool.
Maybe not, but FPOS is a useful soloing tool, every expansion stuff hits harder and we can not keep up as it is. FPOS allows me to solo with less downtime. If mob DPS increases then FPOS should increase to maintain the balance.
In solo conditions both the mana and HP regen are very useful.
In raid situation the mana portion is used on cleric for long fights, in those situations then for it to be a true upgrade, it needs to provide a worthwhile mana upgrade to allow casting whatever new spells the healers get.
In groups, I use FPOS for extra mana regen on myself.
In Molo FPOS is more mana to increase DPS.
So in one of our play methods then yes FPOS doesnt have to be x% of total HP, but in ohter i want it to scale with content.
the thing I desire out of the upgrades is for them to scale up a decent percentage to stay in line with content.
ie,if present fpos feeds 10% of mana, I'd like the next one to scale along that line. Do not set it to be a % of mana pool. That would eliminate upgrade potential, a la healing adept. Just do a review each new expansion for the mana pools that are anticipated from the gear that is being produced and make it's upgrade along that line.
Personally, I would like to get rid of our disease DoT line and get another werewolf pet line to replace it that is independent from the one we have right now. Make it so we actually feel like beastlords. And also make them insta cast spells. I know it won't happen but it would be nice! Fero needs to be taken out or completely retooled aura or group version with faster recast and overstats for the same mana cost as single version. Pet slow is almost completely worthless in its current form. Have it stack with snare and set duration. Get rid of half the pet AA. Fortify companion, Companion's Blessing needs to stack with priest heals or increase how much it heals for at least. Taste of blood needs to stay on the warder longer. It usually wears off by the time another mob gets to camp. And relatively speaking, I assume the other classes that get this AA for themselves and not their pet, hit a lot harder than what our warder can hit for. Get rid of spellbreaker's line. I like the idea of the debuff, I just hope it's not on a 30 minute timer like everything else we have and stacks with other debuffs since most everything else we do, doesn't stack with any other class. Just my thoughts on the beastlord class.
Hope this is the right place for this, but what i would like to see is a decrease in the cast time of our swarm pet. If my parses are right I'm getting the single pet at anywhere from 6k-11k damage or about 350-600dps. Which isn't bad, but we're also losing 1.5 secs of dmg, which I'd guess for us is about 1kish dmg (more if disc etc). that is w/o the extend aa's. This is still the best dps tool for us in my opinion(besides discs) only cause it can't be resisted, but losing the dps while casting it can be bad and for us to keep up with other dps classes we have to keep this pet up, so what I'm trying to get at is, maybe a .5 sec cast? make it easier on us for when we're tanking too so we don't get interrupted so much.
Another thing i would like to see is farther range on focused paragon, and shorter cast time, oh and END feed! (but i know I'm dreaming there hehe)
Nukes- less resists, even w/o resists and all rk3's and 85% mods to cold/poison I'm getting them at 300-500dps...mostly low end (on a green mob) so what I'm getting at on a raid mob they obviously resist more and are no good. that was chain casting all 3 when they popped.
pet- beef up tiny bit, the little guys defiantly aren't as durable as they used to be.
one more dream would be some sort of pulling thing or FD of some sort, give us a little solo edge back.
my two sense
P.S. iksar need a non freezing pet =P
Quote from: Altof on May 31, 2009, 01:28:29 PM
P.S. iksar need a non freezing pet =P
wouldn't be a problem if ya hadn't rolled a slimy leezard ;p
First page updated with some more AAs I found.
Quote from: Camikazi on May 20, 2009, 01:10:05 AM
Warning all info is VERY early, and subject to alot of changes
Found a few more on the EQPlayers site
Twinproc - 6% chance for a double proc
Tactical Mastery - Strikethrough
Spell Casting Mastery - This one is GREAT if it goes in 10% mana pres on all spells stacks with focus effects
Gift of Mana - They added this line to us, GoM along with its WAY too long named upgrades.
Divine Companion Aura - basically a DA for our Warder
Group Perfected Levitation - pretty self explanitory
Also a few more AAs that hasten other AAs (forceful rejuvenation for one), I can see GoM being useful, free Poison nuke or Werewolf pet, Spell Casting Mastery will be HUGE.
All of these look awsome....little worried about GoM and its upgrades though. From what I see from other posts, the developers have designed spells specifically around GoM proc's. That kinda ruins the point of these proc's by limiting your spell use to one EXTREMELY high casting spell when it does go off. What I'm getting at is I would hate to see one or two of our spells get a 10% damage increase but the mana for the spell get a 1000% increase limiting its use to GoM proc's only.
Quote from: AbyssalMage on June 29, 2009, 08:55:27 PM
Quote from: Camikazi on May 20, 2009, 01:10:05 AM
Warning all info is VERY early, and subject to alot of changes
Found a few more on the EQPlayers site
Twinproc - 6% chance for a double proc
Tactical Mastery - Strikethrough
Spell Casting Mastery - This one is GREAT if it goes in 10% mana pres on all spells stacks with focus effects
Gift of Mana - They added this line to us, GoM along with its WAY too long named upgrades.
Divine Companion Aura - basically a DA for our Warder
Group Perfected Levitation - pretty self explanitory
Also a few more AAs that hasten other AAs (forceful rejuvenation for one), I can see GoM being useful, free Poison nuke or Werewolf pet, Spell Casting Mastery will be HUGE.
All of these look awsome....little worried about GoM and its upgrades though. From what I see from other posts, the developers have designed spells specifically around GoM proc's. That kinda ruins the point of these proc's by limiting your spell use to one EXTREMELY high casting spell when it does go off. What I'm getting at is I would hate to see one or two of our spells get a 10% damage increase but the mana for the spell get a 1000% increase limiting its use to GoM proc's only.
True but there is new AA dev, he might not be 100% aware the AA was made with certain spells in mind :P From what I saw all hybrids are getting it, he might just be giving it out to all casters as a general type AA now.
When you hear the GoM audiotrigger go off... Push MGB and then cast Focus. That should save you some mana for sure!
/Whine Jili
Maybe just use GoM for DoN Growl, I expect it will be polished up though of course. It would be ridiculous to introduce an AA line you need to buy 100 AA's worth before it starts working on current spells. With the increase in spell slots we might get a nice big nuke or a special proc buff we can use in conjunction.
Still nothing too exciting for me though, but we are still 9-10months away from expansion?
Quote from: Maylian on June 30, 2009, 06:58:51 AM
Still nothing too exciting for me though, but we are still 9-10months away from expansion?
More like 5, November is still the scheduled release date.
Ahh ok for some reason I had it in my head it would be April, don't know why.
Co9ntent to be rolled out through to april 2010 ... as in when its ready I guess
GoM is in every casting class AA list, I don't think a new big spell will be added, it's just being made a casting class AA like Spell Casting Mastery.
If you check out the cleric post on the other thread the new spell dev said he would be making unique spells after checking balance etc so whilst I understand it is a generic AA being made available there could be usage for all classes that didn't previously have this depending on how the dev works it.
Quote from: Maylian on June 30, 2009, 01:49:01 PM
If you check out the cleric post on the other thread the new spell dev said he would be making unique spells after checking balance etc so whilst I understand it is a generic AA being made available there could be usage for all classes that didn't previously have this depending on how the dev works it.
Yea I didn't see that, hopefully they do it right and not like they did with necros :/ their "GoM spell" became a spell they have to cast along with previous versions in order to compete.
Quote from: Camikazi on June 30, 2009, 03:07:30 PM
Yea I didn't see that, hopefully they do it right and not like they did with necros :/ their "GoM spell" became a spell they have to cast along with previous versions in order to compete.
Can you explain that?
I guess im missing something.
Quote from: wildwaters on June 30, 2009, 06:10:48 PM
Quote from: Camikazi on June 30, 2009, 03:07:30 PM
Yea I didn't see that, hopefully they do it right and not like they did with necros :/ their "GoM spell" became a spell they have to cast along with previous versions in order to compete.
Can you explain that?
I guess im missing something.
The spell line given to Necros to go along with GoM was the Dread Pyre line, only problem was that with the way necros work they can't just replace old spell with new one and be fine, they had to keep using the Dread Pyre line (old and new) with its high mana cost just to keep up with other casters. Because Necros have to use lots of DoTs from past expansions, and cause of the way GoM works (there isn't one GoM proc, there are multiple that trigger on certain level spells) getting a level 70 max GoM proc usually meant a wasted GoM since they wouldn't have another low enough DoT to cast to use it.
It's mostly a Necro situation cause of the way DoTs work, but spell guy is a new name, and don't want the same thing happening, since it could make it hard for our mana to keep up.
One more new AA added.
QuoteUPDATE:
Spell Casting Subtlety - Am on the fence about this one, great for raiding Beastlords who don't need or want the aggro, but a 20% drop in aggro all the time sux for those times you WILL need to take aggro or tank in groups.
I like it being made available. No one has to buy it, but I certainly will :-D. Grabbing agro has rarely been a problem for me, but losing agro is a more common issue.
well.. it would be nice to not steal agro from raxxti and shadowed soulblade wielding tanks when the mob's at 30 or so percent. And the tanking rig should help make sufficient agro still when we want to tank. Probably would still have mana issues if started using the dots for agro as we once did.
Spell Casting Subtlety would rock the expansion for me, by far the most exciting prospect out of all the new ones. The rest seems kinda bland to me, hope our spells make up for it.
I think I'd love the AA if it was like pet hold or something in that you could turn it on or off.
I don't see any chance of me buying it, unless our new spells are just sickening amounts of agro. It's getting too hard for me to hold agro while tanking against the people I group with.
The following is from
Elidroth, was told to post this
QuoteElidroth Said,
"The list of AA's that was released on EQ Players was incomplete and represented only the potential upgrades to existing lines, with no new AA's yet added. There is still a great deal of AA development work to be done, and full details will be coming as we get closer to beta."
Quote from: Tadenea on July 01, 2009, 05:41:18 PM
The following is from Elidroth, was told to post this
QuoteElidroth Said,
"The list of AA's that was released on EQ Players was incomplete and represented only the potential upgrades to existing lines, with no new AA's yet added. There is still a great deal of AA development work to be done, and full details will be coming as we get closer to beta."
Someone hasn't looked at list then cause there are new AA's on there :P
who says that will be all of them though
Quote from: Tadenea on July 01, 2009, 06:31:59 PM
who says that will be all of them though
I know it isn't the whole list, I was just pointing out that he said it had no new AAs only upgrades to old ones, even though the list did have new AAs on it.
Spells and AA have been nerfed and boosted (rarely) in the last minutes of the beta before, so dont get excited yet about anything. Sometimes AA dont even end up on the same class as were originally posted under.
Spell Casting subelty would be great for a lot of bsts but I tank for a lot of my groups and it would kill that for me also i box a 85 wiz and its hard enough to keep him alive lol :) So i wont be buying it... Im hoping they dont forget to increase our hate dropping AA's as well!
Quote from: Catnip_Inny on July 02, 2009, 05:02:56 PM
Spell Casting subelty would be great for a lot of bsts but I tank for a lot of my groups and it would kill that for me also i box a 85 wiz and its hard enough to keep him alive lol :) So i wont be buying it... Im hoping they dont forget to increase our hate dropping AA's as well!
Agreed. I won't buy it. I do a lot of tanking/soloing and when I need to grab agro (usually to save some poor casters life) I can't be hindered by an agro-reducing aa that is automatic.
i'm honestly on the fence about it.
I tank for a lot of groups I'm in. Yet I pull agro far more than I want on raids (even when I was using the MMM smasher), and I feel a large part of that is bite.
Really derno atm.
Could possibly get a self only spell with an agro proc to compensate, for those times we like to tank. Don't rangers have something like this?
Would much rather more activated deaggro, I won't be buying subtlety.
Lols, I'll be buying every rank of subtelty I can get.
However my play style is different than alot of beasts now with my sk, I don't tank 8D
If I were to raid on the beast again I would consider that aa a god send. Not that I get alot of aggro on raids but I take all the lower hate I can get.
I would love to see some sort of high aggro dps aa that allows us to snag aggro when we want with a quick refresh and aa's to hasten it. That would make a good trade off imo. Have it do alot of damage too. That would solve alot of aggro issues on both sides for us.
I bot a war and don't tank, but I dunno, I still have to pick up adds once in awhile or pull them off a squishier dps/healer. I guess on some level I just like my aggro, and going all out I rarely get on HoTT unless the tank goes down. On main raid mobs anyway, trash is often a different story if the sks haven't had time to ae them for awhile.
I'm not against us getting this aa though, I just prefer stuff like raven's claw.
A 30 second refresh on raven's claw, etc would be perfect. Problem I can see with it is allowing asp to be perma-on for relatively free dps, given 0 resists.
Quote from: Kanan on July 15, 2009, 06:14:27 PM
A 30 second refresh on raven's claw, etc would be perfect. Problem I can see with it is allowing asp to be perma-on for relatively free dps, given 0 resists.
They could un-link the timers and make one 30 seconds refreshable but I still think a simple hate blast or hate over time would do the trick. Plus the coding would be pretty much cut and paste from other classes.
Something that allows us the opposite of roar of thunder.
Maxed out roar of thunder does:
Decrease HP when cast by 3900
Decrease STR by 206
Decrease DEX by 206
Decrease AGI by 206
Decrease Hate by 5289Maybe make something that incorporates this and is like challenge that sk's get.
Roar of Power (maxed rank)
Decrease HP when cast by 3900
Decrease STR by 206
Decrease DEX by 206
Decrease AGI by 206
Increase hate by 5289 when cast or Increase hate by 500 for 5 ticks /shrug, I'd use that for sure if I had to pick up aggro.
as far as dropping hate why not just make it simple and give us big hastened AA's for Roar of Thunder. EVen at max hastened RoT its still what 4 min 30 seconds... whats wrong with dropping the timer a lot more on that and wed have 2 perfectly good aggro dropping abilities... 3900 nuke isnt that big a deal in todays content...
Quote from: Catnip_Inny on July 16, 2009, 12:54:06 AM
as far as dropping hate why not just make it simple and give us big hastened AA's for Roar of Thunder. EVen at max hastened RoT its still what 4 min 30 seconds... whats wrong with dropping the timer a lot more on that and wed have 2 perfectly good aggro dropping abilities... 3900 nuke isnt that big a deal in todays content...
esp no crits possible too.
I don't think a bst should need to put that insane amount of AAs into maxing out RoT and hastening it enough to be a worthwhile line.
It's a worthwhile AA maxed out, but sitting @ 1850 right now, I have no plans on working on it soon, due to the cost.
Unless they rework the line significantly to make it good with no further investment, I think this would be a bad idea for up and coming bsts.
I talking about hastened AA's, bsts can choose to buy whateaver AA level they feel comfortable with depending on their aggro .... all i want is more AA to make the line reuseable more often... im not sure about the rest of you beasts but i dont have room for 500 hotbuttons for all of our needs... so why not inprove on what we have already!
If they would make RoT on a smaller reuse timer id never even touch spell casting subelty...
Reverse Roar sounds like a neat idea although i don't think you need that aggro dot added to that.
At the moment im positive i still can tank if i want to even with spellcasting subtlety. In todays gameplay i do take aggro off every warrior except the best 3 or 4 on the server even witout trying, and those top ones still have to use everything they got to keep up, and i do take aggro from most knights trying to tank. So even with 20% reduction on spell casting hate i will be able to take aggro in a flash from nearly all tanks and of course all non-tanks anyway.
With a reverse roar you can cover those moments where someone needs to be saved and add enough hate to keep aggro anyway (remember, taunt just gives one hate more than the highest on the list).
Been a long time since i posted here and quite frankly i am kinda disappointed in some of these "suggestions". I have been playing my Bst as a main since the Luclin expansion went live and alot has changed since then but we benefited as well. Our only plus as this class, like very *very* few others.... we are for the most part left alone and not nerfed.
However..... there are indeed a few things that really do need to be changed/upgraded/reworked. The 1st thing that is our pride and joy is what i am gonna list as:
1) Paragon (both lines) - Only 1, ONE, UNO, BL spoke up and said something == Altof==. We need END regen added to this in a major way. Nothing else out there regens END and it is much needed at this point in the game and extend it to at least 90 secs with a nice lil bump in regen per tick considering the content coming up and even seen now.
2) Subtlety would be a waste... hands down. Upgrade Roar and shorten the timer a lil more and we are set, BL's can tank alot better than most would think and can dps better than most thought. That nice lil poison DD is amazing but can be insta aggro depending on the group.
3) Taste of Blood should be a passive aa and re-tuned into something that is actually good for something
4) Upgrade our slow to 70% like our pet and make the resist factor higher
4a) Better haste. I don't even bother memming Celerrity anymore after i got it umpteen expansions ago cause i can buy a haste pot and it last just as long for the same benefit... and it's a lot faster
5) Fero is actually a better buff than most care to see, granted some of the stats are outdated because it was an amazing buff in the VT days but it is a plus nonetheless. My vote is to turn the sta portion to an overstat of what you have already by a small % and turn it into a group buff like shammy Puma with our normal duration.
6) more aa's into Trip atk
7) Better disease and poison cure. Curing Tash is a plus but i can't do crap about Malo that can be casted on me by an insanly low lvl mob is more than iratating. A boost in this line will be a plus
I can name a few more things but i feel that those should be at the top of the list. Everything else should be an added bonus aside from the normal "fluff" they put out there for everyone.
Well, haste is usually a spell, not an AA. (Though I've feedbacked for a longer duration on the pet haste group recourse over 50 times by now I'm sure)
The initial lineup of AA's had a self cure, hopefully we'll hang onto it (though, malo doesn't affect ooc anymore, so if you're fighting low level mobs it probably doesn't matter).
Retuning Taste of Blood into something that is actually good for something- well, anything specific? I'm sure the devs thought it'd be good for something when they made it, no sense leaving it up to them :p
Adding end to paragon opens a can of melee screaming at us for a zing or wtfever, lol. I guess I wouldn't mind it, but it seems like it's been asked for before a few times with no luck.
True Haste and Slow are both spells but it deosn't negate from the fact that they should be tuned up to the content. Slowing group mobs is one thing but trying to get it on a higher end mob/name/lower raid content can prove a lill difficult at times.. the refresh isn't fast enough on a fail imo and even more disheartening when you fail multiple in a row.
As for Haste well.. the fact that a buyable pot has upgraded a spell of mine is more than annoying. The pot for our SE line doesn't come close so why should we have to resort to buy a semi better version of what our spell should do?
Also, even if a low lvl mob can't get Malo to land on me, what of the higher end ones that get it to stick? 10+ mins of malo does a number on your out of combat timer. No reason why this cannot be cured by us if Shamans are 1 of 2 of our parent classes.
If taste of blood hit both the beastlord and the pet it would be functional.
They would have to fix the stacking issues with our disc.
Quote from: Lathon on July 24, 2009, 03:24:52 PM
1) Paragon (both lines) - Only 1, ONE, UNO, BL spoke up and said something == Altof==. We need END regen added to this in a major way. Nothing else out there regens END and it is much needed at this point in the game and extend it to at least 90 secs with a nice lil bump in regen per tick considering the content coming up and even seen now.
4) Upgrade our slow to 70% like our pet and make the resist factor higher
4a) Better haste. I don't even bother memming Celerrity anymore after i got it umpteen expansions ago cause i can buy a haste pot and it last just as long for the same benefit... and it's a lot faster
5) Fero is actually a better buff than most care to see, granted some of the stats are outdated because it was an amazing buff in the VT days but it is a plus nonetheless. My vote is to turn the sta portion to an overstat of what you have already by a small % and turn it into a group buff like shammy Puma with our normal duration.
END Regen probably won't be added to anyone, it HAS been asked for before by more then just us and devs have said they balance Melee Discs around having no regen available, and adding END Regen will just increase END cost on discs.
Upgrading slow to 70% and giving it better resist mod would be copying Enchanters slow, and they are one of the few classes who don't hate us ATM :P
Better Haste would have Shammies complaining since it would be getting too close to their top haste.
Take Current Fero mana cost, increase it 20% then multiply by 6 and that is what you would be using to cast a group Fero, way not worth it.
We are screwed on many things because of other classes who insist on us being behind them on everything, mages with pets, monks and rangers with melee, rangers with nukes, shammies with buffs, shammies and chanters with debuffs and with so few vocal Bsts around it's hard to be heard over the other classes going against us.
Quote from: Camikazi on July 24, 2009, 05:43:46 PM
END Regen probably won't be added to anyone, it HAS been asked for before by more then just us and devs have said they balance Melee Discs around having no regen available, and adding END Regen will just increase END cost on discs.
Aye, thats why I haven't asked for an upgrade. Its better that its balanced around 0 regen, the dev's don't have a good track record for figuring things out with out our(players) help
Quote from: Camikazi on July 24, 2009, 05:43:46 PM
Upgrading slow to 70% and giving it better resist mod would be copying Enchanters slow, and they are one of the few classes who don't hate us ATM :P
I'll take your word on it. I'm thinking they really have their own problems atm and "slow" isn't one of them. A level 85 slow with -15 chomatic would be fine with me :-D
Quote from: Camikazi on July 24, 2009, 05:43:46 PM
Better Haste would have Shammies complaining since it would be getting too close to their top haste.
Shammies have to give up something. Well alot and taking "wushi" style buffs and a haste that lasts longer than potions would be a starter.
Quote from: Camikazi on July 24, 2009, 05:43:46 PM
Take Current Fero mana cost, increase it 20% then multiply by 6 and that is what you would be using to cast a group Fero, way not worth it.
And the DPS increase of "crap" still doesn't make it worth it. With out some other mod, it will never be "worth" it. Even as an aura I don't think it would be worth it.
Quote from: Camikazi on July 24, 2009, 05:43:46 PM
We are screwed on many things because of other classes who insist on us being behind them on everything, mages with pets, monks and rangers with melee, rangers with nukes, shammies with buffs, shammies and chanters with debuffs and with so few vocal Bsts around it's hard to be heard over the other classes going against us.
I don't mind my pets DPS being behind Mages, let them get screwed as a DPS class cause they want their pets to provide so munch DPS instead of better nukes. What I want is out pets to have the same defensive abilities as theirs. And if our pets are balanced around "pet gear" then we need to be able to cast pet gear cause getting a "knowlegable" mage to make you a pack is like "finding a needle in a haystack." Monks should have better DPS than us. mabye they'll give up run 8 and FD (at will) Wont happen and FD is such a strong utility, that even though their a "pure" mellee class, its more of a utilit role they are in now. Rangers are Hybrid like us. Ideally they should be equal in DPS and spell DPS to us. But better Defensive abilities being 1/2 tanks. Shammies need to give up over cap buffs. We should have the same abilities as them being 1/2 shammy which is 1/2 buffer. They can keep Panther, its their class defining abilitiy along with Cani/heal
Quote from: AbyssalMage on July 25, 2009, 12:35:49 AM
I don't mind my pets DPS being behind Mages, let them get screwed as a DPS class cause they want their pets to provide so munch DPS instead of better nukes. What I want is out pets to have the same defensive abilities as theirs. And if our pets are balanced around "pet gear" then we need to be able to cast pet gear cause getting a "knowlegable" mage to make you a pack is like "finding a needle in a haystack." Monks should have better DPS than us. mabye they'll give up run 8 and FD (at will) Wont happen and FD is such a strong utility, that even though their a "pure" mellee class, its more of a utilit role they are in now. Rangers are Hybrid like us. Ideally they should be equal in DPS and spell DPS to us. But better Defensive abilities being 1/2 tanks. Shammies need to give up over cap buffs. We should have the same abilities as them being 1/2 shammy which is 1/2 buffer. They can keep Panther, its their class defining abilitiy along with Cani/heal
That's not how most of them see it, they think they should tank and DPS above on all occasions. Me I will just use a line they love to use, if they out tank us, we should out DPS them (saw that ALOT on ranger forums when asking for upgrades, sounds like a fun line to use :P).
Quote from: Lathon on July 24, 2009, 03:24:52 PM
3) Taste of Blood should be a passive aa and re-tuned into something that is actually good for something
4a) Better haste. I don't even bother memming Celerrity anymore after i got it umpteen expansions ago cause i can buy a haste pot and it last just as long for the same benefit... and it's a lot faster
7) Better disease and poison cure. Curing Tash is a plus but i can't do crap about Malo that can be casted on me by an insanly low lvl mob is more than iratating. A boost in this line will be a plus
I was going to say don't make it innate, but I remembered I can block the proc buff, so I'm not worried. I'm not having that 0.0001% dps increase block my useful disc. :)
/nod to celerity, duration is all i want.
We followed Rangers on cures for a long time, then they went and got better ones, while we got left behind. We still semi out cure them on disease in some instances. They beat us on poison and can cure curse however.
However these last two are spells really, not AA.
Also I believe group fero would be x3 the mana of single fero, as per most other spells used to be single vs group versions...
SOE may say they wont give another class FD but they sure are give many classes complete agro droppers. One of my guildies found this new shammy AA
"Inconspicuous Totem, new line, 1 rank - turns you into a stationary totem and removes you from combat (which class do you think will whine the loudest about this? Shams get FD!)"
Sooooooo.....both our parent classes will now have an agro remover, too bad we wont.
Shaman did have an extremely limited aggro dropper in the posky ring, but yeah... weird.
Quote from: Vidyne on July 25, 2009, 03:49:38 PM
Also I believe group fero would be x3 the mana of single fero, as per most other spells used to be single vs group versions...
Yes 6 times is much, but fero right now is at 1396 mana rank 2, adding the normal 20% or so and multiply it by 3 that is around 5k mana for a spell that won't show much of an increase at all.
guys it has been said many times fero now as it is does not add much dps it barley noticeable so why ask for something that is worth nothing in its current state
sorry guys but its been a while since i have seen anyone ask for a new shared health disc for pet and owner . am i the only one who thinks this is a good idea, i mean come on we have only 1 disc and we have had it from level 50 or be four i think we need a new defencive besides what we have any ideas?
A 100% avoidance disc like every other melee has would be better.
Quote from: Dilgartownguard on July 26, 2009, 03:33:24 PM
A 100% avoidance disc like every other melee has would be better.
I was thinking we're not likely to get something like this.
We have protective spirit discipline, which increases melee mitigation by 90% for 12 sec, at a fairly low reuse time only 4 mins or so?
Sure, monks have it too, plus other things, but it'd be more likely we get a pet shared health AA that has a separate timer than a pure 100% avoid disc at a separate timer, or else other classes would start crying about it.
Personally I like the idea of shared health with the warder.....it gives us another use for fluffy :-)
I agree, id love a 100% avoidance disc but its just not likely to happen. Id really love to see us push for a pet shared health disc that is seperate from our def disc... between the two of them i could accomplish a lot!
QuoteI don't mind my pets DPS being behind Mages, let them get screwed as a DPS class cause they want their pets to provide so munch DPS instead of better nukes. What I want is out pets to have the same defensive abilities as theirs. And if our pets are balanced around "pet gear" then we need to be able to cast pet gear cause getting a "knowlegable" mage to make you a pack is like "finding a needle in a haystack." Monks should have better DPS than us. mabye they'll give up run 8 and FD (at will) Wont happen and FD is such a strong utility, that even though their a "pure" mellee class, its more of a utilit role they are in now. Rangers are Hybrid like us. Ideally they should be equal in DPS and spell DPS to us. But better Defensive abilities being 1/2 tanks. Shammies need to give up over cap buffs. We should have the same abilities as them being 1/2 shammy which is 1/2 buffer. They can keep Panther, its their class defining abilitiy along with Cani/heal
I don't think any beastlord is really asking for our pet to have the same dps than mage dps pets. However it should have the same dps as the mage all purpose pet before equipment (which is hard to parse for mages as theirs come fully equipped). The current difference is just too big though. A nice comparison parse event by the way is Synarcana, usually beastlord warders come out around 450 dps fully equipped with highest ingame focus and using disc, bp clicky and second spire. Mages do around 1500 to 2k dps there. That difference is simply too big at this point in the game for a 10 to 15 minute fight.
Monks allready have a lot higher dps than we do, so there is nothing for them to give up to achieve that. As monk hybrids however we should be able to use FD, same as SKs can use it.
Rangers usually have higher spell dps than we do as they have still unlinked nukes. Granted, they got hit by the recent nerf, but they still can outdo us especially on multi-mob fights. Their melee dps is usually higher as well, however not as much as it used to be and of course their pet dps is considerably lower. All in all on single mob fights we have a slight advantage, on multi-mob fights they do, its all pretty eval. They do tank considerably better though.
Shamans never wont give over cap buffs, and frankly i do not see any reason for that. However i do see quite a few reasons for us getting overcap buffs too, however lowers than shamans are.
All in all shamans and mages are quite a bit overpowered in the general schemes of things at the moment and i do hope that part of that is corrected in UF, but we have to see if that will happen as both their communities are very vocal and ours isnt.
quote
don't think any beastlord is really asking for our pet to have the same dps than mage dps pets. However it should have the same dps as the mage all purpose pet before equipment (which is hard to parse for mages as theirs come fully equipped). The current difference is just too big though. A nice comparison parse event by the way is Synarcana, usually beastlord warders come out around 450 dps fully equipped with highest ingame focus and using disc, bp clicky and second spire. Mages do around 1500 to 2k dps there. That difference is simply too big at this point in the game for a 10 to 15 minute fight.
1500/1750 dps for our pet sounds ok then as a compromise, then we gain 1350 dps on our pet.
and mages still have higher pet dps then.
then do some dps on the beastlord and we are alive again.
Firstly this is more a thread on AA's than on spells and DPS and it is not a personal attack Denti but some of your statements are getting very mixed up and confusing. Monks are pure melee, they should be higher dps than us, FD shouldn't be diluted into the beastlord class. Yes we come from monks but we should just have another decent non FD way to drop agro.
We should get some sort of overcap buff to make up for the stagnation of our stat buffs which are now meaningless for the majority of players. Obviously this should be a lower form of the shaman line so as not to take away from their desireability.
Our position against rangers is probably where it should be except in terms of curing / healing, why shouldn't they tank better? They are an armour type above us so should mitigate damage better than us, we do have the advantage of slow, which whilst not massive anymore is still useful.
I think people are right that if our pets are balanced based on having gear then they should either give us a way of getting that gear or summon with gear already. I haven't had mages summon me gear since probably PoR / TSS era so it would be a welcome change to get something like this again.
Wasn't our nukes linked because we were out DPS'ing Monks. Heck, I remember almost everyone out DPS'ing Monks after SoF or SoD and the Monkey website was a leading contributer of us getting the nerf bat. They did a crap load of parses to prove their case but I only remember us getting hit with the spell linking, not rangers (And to be fair, alot of people got hit with spell linking cause I think they wanted to stop any problem before it started). And last I looked, monks are still a considerable ways off from beserker/rogue DPS and falling farther behind. But in all honesty, those 3 classses are all crying over their DPS for as long as I can remember.
If Sony raises our pet DPS, they have to reduce/stagnate our personal DPS so I personally would like to see "Fluffy" gain defensive abilities and forgo our pet DPS in exchange for personal DPS gains. Basically how its been after GoD. Are pet hasn't grown but our personal DPS has had a nice curve to it. I'm all about personal DPS and making sure that "fluffy" isn't a "one hit wonder" but a durable off tank. Currently I think he's closest to a Fire Pet defensively and would like to see this improved to Earth ability (Air's defensive abilities comes from its innate stun which I think is beyond our pet's intent).
This is why AA's are so hard for us. Which was the original subject. If you don't know your history, you can't know your future. Many in our community want our pets DPS increased through AA's and spells(or disc's) while others still have a fresh reminder what happened in GoD and have gone the personal DPS route over pet DPS route. Both camps have valid arguments because the way a Beastlord can be played 1- 65 is munch different than 66 - 85. And because our abilities are put in check by multiple classes (Monk, Shaman, Enchanter, Ranger, and Magician) we have to fight for anything we want to recieve.
Personally I come from "what happened in GoD" camp AND switching from a Druid to Beastlord at around the same time. The changes the community chose then have served us well through SoD. But as time goes by, the ones who represented us then (GoD time frame) have long sense left for other endevours in life and others have filled in their shoes. The problem is, the game has changed once again, and we need to fight vocally "for every inch of DPS and utility" we can get.
We may not get a FD AA like ability, but we have to shape our own class and not let the developers shape it for us.
We also can't be afraid to step on other classes toes, or think outside the box, because it only takes one expansion to become "obsolete." Warriors/Rogues - lead to the endurance change in PoP/GoD, Wizards - Lead to Insta Nukes in TSS, Pure Casters - OoC regen in OoW(?), Bards - recieved /melody to reduce carpel tunnel, and Mages - Pets recieved a HUGE bump in OoW and later expansions.
Classes that are still struggling include Druid - Received group heal but their population continue's to decline as their DPS, utility, and Healing (in group content) seems to be in stagnation, Enchanter - Recieved some awsome CC aa's but continue to struggle as risk vs. reward plays a greater role on where people are willing to hunt, and Palidin - Their LOW dps vs. SoD mobs insain HP's creates a "shying" away from if not the MT.
I don't want to be on the "classes that struggle" as a Beastlord.
When slow was really useful a lot of the "keep bsts down as they have slow" arguments work, now they dont.
To be useful these days in raids or groups you need to be able to either tank, single pull/CC, heal or DPS. As has long been pointed out or Utility has gone, we cant tank or heal, so that leaves one avenue open to us.
The very poor tanking ability coupled with slow being less useful has rapidly erroded our solo ability on decent, (i.e. non reptetive tedious mobs) content.
So we need AA to improve tanking and dps. DPS via warder is needed a step increase to bring back onto the curve, and more damage.
Useful stuff would be
One cast warder and owner corruption etc cure, bonus other people.
swtich warder - change pocketed pet and live pet
mez of some sort
Quote from: Maylian on July 28, 2009, 07:28:51 AM
Firstly this is more a thread on AA's than on spells and DPS and it is not a personal attack Denti but some of your statements are getting very mixed up and confusing. Monks are pure melee, they should be higher dps than us, FD shouldn't be diluted into the beastlord class. Yes we come from monks but we should just have another decent non FD way to drop agro.
Never said that monks should have lower dps, i was just pointing out that they are currently even with the other melee dps classes and in some cases, especially longer fights, are quite a bit ahead. And yes, that is fine, they are after all a pure melee class, however with more utility than they should have (pacify, mez, fd, knight like mitigation).
However we have to agree to disagree about FD, i allways was of the opinion, and will be, that we should get FD. I am aware however that we won't get it as the devs i talked about this are quite clear that there will be now new FD class. Thus i lobbied for other ways to drop aggro in recent betas, however not with much luck. Especially compared with the the amount of neg hate rangers can produce.
Quote from: Maylian on July 28, 2009, 07:28:51 AM
We should get some sort of overcap buff to make up for the stagnation of our stat buffs which are now meaningless for the majority of players. Obviously this should be a lower form of the shaman line so as not to take away from their desireability.
I didn't say anything else.
Quote from: Maylian on July 28, 2009, 07:28:51 AM
Our position against rangers is probably where it should be except in terms of curing / healing, why shouldn't they tank better? They are an armour type above us so should mitigate damage better than us, we do have the advantage of slow, which whilst not massive anymore is still useful.
I have nothing against them tanking better, they are after all a light tank. But to keep things in balance they should have a slight disadvantage in dps vs us, not much but still there. Of course we do have slow, but rangers after all have not only the possibility to shed a lot more aggro than we can which is a big advantage in raids, they also can do very impressive ranged and nearly aggro free dps if needed (up to 7k over 5 minutes on multi-mob fights). Together with WS they have quite an advantage over us, not necessarily in the group game, but during raids.
Why is it ok for monks to have "useful utility" in current content, and as being a pure mellee they get good dps, yet because we have "outdated utility" in current content we have to have bad DPS because we are a "hybrid"?
Im not a supporter of FD, but for the common bst, we should not be arguing or accepting lower dps because of our alleged utility, which these days is pretty crap in most situations.
Quote from: jitathab on July 29, 2009, 12:49:10 PM
Why is it ok for monks to have "useful utility" in current content, and as being a pure mellee they get good dps, yet because we have "outdated utility" in current content we have to have bad DPS because we are a "hybrid"?
Im not a supporter of FD, but for the common bst, we should not be arguing or accepting lower dps because of our alleged utility, which these days is pretty crap in most situations.
thats a pretty damn good point about the monks!
Where is this idea of bad DPS coming from? We are decent dps and sit where we should do, most of the classes that should be above us are. Personally today in raids I out dps'd all monks, rangers, mages, some of our slacker rogues....if you're going to argue a point make sure its a valid one.
I don't care less what monks get and I don't want to argue that we get some upgrade because class x got ability y because it makes the majority of you who hide behind that argument sound like whiny bitches. Increase pet defensive ability, give us some extra deagro tools (not FD) and give us some other utility but make it fit with the role play background of our class. Yes slow is now a rod for our backs, people still over value its ability and because of it try to suggest we shouldn't get other things and we need to get SoE to see that and get some other utility. I wouldn't want FPoS to have an end component because that would just make us what necro's used to be years ago and just constant feeders.
I don't care about mages whining, i want a REAL GODDANG PET THAT is useful ffs. What we have is crap. There is no reason our warder is so pathetic. It should be on par with mage earth defensives and with air pet offensives. What we buff or gear our pets with is what should set them apart, not this pos pathetic excuse of a warder companion who dies in an eyeblink on wussy mobs with zip for dps.
Almost the next expansion and still not fixed. By the time the next expansion does come out, the warder will be completely useless and with it all our linked pet dps because the warder isnt worth using to bother with.
Would be nice to actualy BE a beastlord. But so far lately, there is nothing beastlordly about us.
As for utility, if we are supposed to be a sham hybrid why cant we inherit the shaman's last expansion focus line? At least THAT would be somewhat a useful utility.
Quote from: Panthur on July 29, 2009, 10:07:28 PM
I don't care about mages whining, i want a REAL GODDANG PET THAT is useful ffs. What we have is crap. There is no reason our warder is so pathetic. It should be on par with mage earth defensives and with air pet offensives. What we buff or gear our pets with is what should set them apart, not this pos pathetic excuse of a warder companion who dies in an eyeblink on wussy mobs with zip for dps.
AMEN!!
Almost the next expansion and still not fixed. By the time the next expansion does come out, the warder will be completely useless and with it all our linked pet dps because the warder isnt worth using to bother with.
Would be nice to actualy BE a beastlord. But so far lately, there is nothing beastlordly about us.
I agree. The very name of our class should define us as a PET class not some shadow of monks and shamen. In some areas not even a shadow.
As for utility, if we are supposed to be a sham hybrid why cant we inherit the shaman's last expansion focus line? At least THAT would be somewhat a useful utility.
I've watched as cleric hp buffs go up exponentially. We don't have a comparable buff nor should we since we're not cleric hybrids. (just using this as an example for a point later on) Shaman buffs are insane compared to our own. They are very much like cleric buffs in the increase over the expansions. Our buffs are paltry in comparision. At one point we started to obtain some of the shaman buff lines in the spell infusion of spirit but stopped after that. I think if they modify our focus line of spells to include some low over cap stats such as wunshi but the hp part stay in-line with the current focus progression. This would not be overly powerful. Even chanters got mind buffs that until last expansion so completely overshadowed our spiritual light line I wasn't even sure if it was worth using it anymore.
The point is: All these class buffs increase exponentially while our buffs stagnate.
Cleric aegolism: temperence (level 40) 800 hp to gallantry (level 82) 3775 hp
Shaman focus: focus of spirit (level 60) 480 hp, str 67 dex 60 to darkpaw focus (level 83) 1437 hp, 138 str/dex w/ 138 cap increase
Chanter clarity: breeze (level 14) +6 mana pet tick to prescience (level 83) +49 mana per tick 744 mana 60 wis/int
beast focus: talisman of tnarg (level 53) 150 hp to focus of yemall (level 83) 1083 hp
beast crack: spiritual light +3 hp/mana per tick to spiritual edification +24 hp/mana per tick (special note: from spiritual light up to spiritual dominion the increase was actually only +2 to either stat)(after this it was changed to +1 per spell except the inclusion of the ranks to the spells. There they were increased by 1 per rank and the next level would take the regen of the raid rank of the previous level spell.)(I would like to see the current increase continue from epiphany to edification to the nect level)
I know the spells of clerics and shaman aren't the lowest level versions but I used those as the first of the better spells they actually do get.
Quote from: Maylian on July 29, 2009, 10:01:24 PM
Where is this idea of bad DPS coming from? We are decent dps and sit where we should do, most of the classes that should be above us are. Personally today in raids I out dps'd all monks, rangers, mages, some of our slacker rogues....if you're going to argue a point make sure its a valid one.
You should start raiding with decent monks/rangers imo :). They have much bigger burst. Where a bst bursts tops off at around 9k'ish, rangers can monks can burst over 12k easily enough, and both of them can burst for longer periods than a bst. Rangers via discs (which unlike for us, have been upgraded many times since PoP) & summer's mist spam (even after the nerf, it's still considerably better than our burstable spell dmg), monks just by having more (and better) discs available to them. Hell, even warriors can burst for over 12k on some fights (Rallos comes to mind). On short fights, no bst should even come close to a well played monk/ranger of similar gear/AAs. Our salvation comes when the fight starts reaching the 5-10 minute mark, when the other melees have exausted their discs, and our sustained dps kicks in (ie our inability to mana/endurance dump).
We are the bottom of the barrel when it comes to melee dps, which wouldn't be bad if we had the utility/tanking to make up for it. But we don't. The majority of our utility has suffered greatly due to mudflation. Slows mitigated to less than 15% effectivness on most mobs, our blocks getting struck through on every other hit, our ridiculous AC softcap, paragons that restore a pretty insignificant portion of mana (around 1/10th, or so, down from the 1/2 to 1/3 back in the PoP days when it first came out), our healing ability, which takes over 10 casts to heal us to full. What we're left with is a high maintenance warder, that does sub-par dps.
Unfortunately, nothing on that preliminary list looks like they're addressing the issue. Do they still think Taste of Blood is a useful ability, or they have nothing better to replace it with? Nuff cut&paste already, it's time to evaluate the effectiveness of the abilities granted to us.
QuoteWhere is this idea of bad DPS coming from? We are decent dps and sit where we should do, most of the classes that should be above us are. Personally today in raids I out dps'd all monks, rangers, mages, some of our slacker rogues....if you're going to argue a point make sure its a valid one.
Likewise. What you personally see is anecdotal evidence and therefore only of very limited value. You should try and get parses from several guilds, best of all if you get them from the top serverwide guilds. I do not say our dps is bad, of course not. But saying you out dps all monks, rangers and mages just shows that those classes in your guild must be pretty inept as they can out dps us easily if played right. Again, i do not have a problem with that, well, except mages that is and partways rangers. Of course we can out dps slacking classmembers of every class, even wizards, zerkers and rogues, but equally equipped and competent dps classes we cannot out dps at all (and mages are in there), rangers we can outdps only if they do not get manaflare and the fight is about a single target.
I do agree about end regen on paragon now (used to wish we had it), but i do think we need access to some of the end regen AAs that pure melees get, same as rangers btw, as we use quite a bit of end these days. Yes, we do need a big increase in de-aggro tools and spell casting subtlety is going exactly into the right direction there. However FD would be well inside our class lore as part monks and would be justified from a role playing point of view. However we won't get it and therefore have to pull some very very weird descriptions outta some hat to justify anything else in that regard. I do not think we will see any increased utility as every utility we have is being farmed out anyway. Heck, you can even buy SE as a 4 hour lasting, death persistent buff nowadays, quite a bit better than what we can cast.
So all we can and should push for is more dps (and to achieve that de-aggro), as that will give us a spot in those 36 and soon 24 man raids that are and will be there to stay if you want to get the best loot.
If we want to burn harder we need to try and get things that stack with what we have. An activated AA that also comes with a heavy endurance cost. There are a few options that would stack with emp fury - increased crit strength (like savage spirit), hundred hands effect ( I think rogue's fury has this?), increased crit rate.
On the spell damage side of things something like prolonged destruction - Increased mana cost for nukes in exchange for increased crit chance.
A new idea the AA puts a "buff" on you that would make the yowl line always give us the 4 proc, the "buff" would also have something like a 500/tick mana drain and 500/tick health drain. Make it last a minute and give us the option of clicking it off if we want to stop the burn. Make the health/mana drains on the SE buff slots so there aren't other conflicts, another detrimental side effect would obviously be kicking off SE.
Just throwing these out there because I agree we could use really gain a boost in our burst potential (I've hit 10k once, but 9k+ is just getting lucky IMO.) Also posting them in the AA idea thread, but they came to mind reading you all fight about our DPS.
No thanks. I dont want a buff that takes away or drains us. Would be useless on ae rape mobs and certain raids. And the duration would have to be over a minuite as the spell is a 30 sec refresh itself. 2 casts? yuck!
What would REALY rock my boat is an aa ability like frenzied burnout. It makes the pet (not swarm pets that i've seen) do 2x the melee dmg. IE: with em3 my air pet max it is 427, with frenzied burtnout rank3 it's max hit is now 717ish.
That is a VERY worthwhile aa. 15 min reususe with aas to make it last over 2 mins. The raid and group bps have a much weaker version of this that lasts 45ish secs. But i slack and dont have raid bp yet for bst.
Another random aa that might be interesting is to have random animals coming to our aid and assisting us with our foes. (don't ask me how they get there! no idea yet! LOL) That says beastLORD to it, but i woudnt know where to begin implimenting the mechanics of that one heh. Nearest comparison would be like host of elements or divine interventionish. But it screams beastlord, thats all i can say. Just an idea really.
EDIT: DOH!! Almost forgot about this ability as its so WEAK for the current content.
Or give us more ranks of Empathic Fury somehow. It's old and stagnant. Upgrading it with aas for strength and duration would be fabulous.
IMO I really believe the END regen idea for AAs would be wonderful, for I do not believe END regen on paragon would benefit us as much as you all may think. I would also like to see our swarm pet proc 4 pets more often like 15% instead of 5-7%. Paragon lines would have to increase to help with the cost of spells......but if we do not get a level cap from next expansion, getting any type of increase on paragon would be great to me. Even though fero don't give a huge damage bonus, I still get asked constantly in raids for fero, and if we got fero to last either a bit longer or an aura type AA fero, it would make me smile.
I would love the idea of having an AA that allows us to FD or at least a skill with a lower cap than the monk so it isn't as good but can be helpful, even though we won't get it. So improvements to our already aggro reducing AAs like bite of the asp and Roar of Thunder, we could benefit from another aggro reducer.
Queeon, I play both a bst and warrior and I guarantee you endurance using classes would love it added to paragon. Will SOE do it? No, they've already stated they are purposely reining in endurance regen to keep abilities under control.
Quote from: Grbage on August 24, 2009, 04:58:33 PM
Queeon, I play both a bst and warrior and I guarantee you endurance using classes would love it added to paragon. Will SOE do it? No, they've already stated they are purposely reining in endurance regen to keep abilities under control.
I guess that's why they broke the endurance heal spells a while back.
What endurance regen spells? I know of stamina regen spells which were totally different.
At one point, those were considered endurance, and they worked (albeit barely). They were made to not work on the yellow mana bar when they added endurance as melee-mana.
Invigor
Classes:
•Enchanter level 22
•Ranger level 23
•Paladin level 21
•Druid level 12
•Shaman level 21
•Cleric level 9
•Beastlord level 45
Description:
1: Decrease Stamina Loss by 35
Game Description:
Renews the endurance of your target, replenishing their stamina for 18 secs (3 ticks).
Sony releasing any more AA's that will be in expansion? lets get back on topic a little bit :)
Quote from: nedoirah on September 01, 2009, 12:30:21 AM
Quote from: Grbage on August 24, 2009, 04:58:33 PM
Queeon, I play both a bst and warrior and I guarantee you endurance using classes would love it added to paragon. Will SOE do it? No, they've already stated they are purposely reining in endurance regen to keep abilities under control.
I guess that's why they broke the endurance heal spells a while back.
I am not saying it would not be nice to have endurance regen on paragon, but they gave pure meleers and tanks end regen AAs, and for mana, that is where the BST come along to help out the mana peeps while the melleers have AAs/discs to quickly regen end.....
Quote from: Catnip_Inny on September 01, 2009, 03:56:36 PM
Sony releasing any more AA's that will be in expansion? lets get back on topic a little bit :)
No clue, I don't know how to troll Lucy spell database for AA's SOE is thinking about. The worst part about it is they(SOE) also know how to hide spell information from Lucy