I sent this to Nodyin, Negreth, and Rashere....am hoping I get some sort of response. Tell me what you guys think. I had written it up before, but I wrote more concise ideas and included a new one.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hello sir Dev, the following are ideas I'd like to submit them to you for the BEASTLORD class who is in much need of utility for raids and as a class in general. Thanks for your time to read this message.
Spells that I want to see given to Bsts that should have been given YEARS AGO!
Time to play catch up in the spells deparment!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fury
Rage
Voice of the Berserker
Shifting Shield
Guardian
Shroud of the Spirits
Levitation
Spirit of Bi'Li
Tiny Terror
Quickness
Talisman of the Feral (new group 50% haste)
Improved Invisibility
Spirit Veil
Talisman of the Tribunal
Spirit of the Puma
Cripple
Blood of Nadox
Disinfecting Aura
Cure Corruption
Chant of the Napaea
Feral Salve - (renamed version of Potamied Salve from rangers)
AA Abilitiy Ideas/Existing that should be given or improved
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Protective Spirit disc NEW upgrade
Beastial Frenzy another upgrade
Rake another upgrade
Feral Swipe another upgrade
Flying Kick NEW upgrade or Round Kick NEW upgrade
New CLASS DEFINING Ideas
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Give Beastlords NEW pets to summon. These following ideas for Bst Pets can be used as either new swarm pets or new warders to control like the regular old warders, with different animal graphics, and they each have special abilities and skills. These pets be either swarm or new warders, will be ADDITIONAL to our regular warder line which must ALWAYS continue to grow with us.
New Additional Warder Route -
Pros: - New graphics and pets for the beastlord community and overall community of Norrath to be in awe of what Beastlords can do as a CLASS DEFINING ABILITY. These warders will provide utility in raids due to their special abilities and skills and will promote the beastlord class to be sought out more for raiding guilds and grouping/soloing and offer uniqueness once again to the class.
- Some of the graphics for these new animals already exsist so not much work there.
- Beastlords will actually want to summon their warders more often and use them more often at raids.
- These new warders will obey all pet AA commands and be affected by our pet DPS AAs and pet foci like normal just like our regular warder.
Cons: Some graphic work and coding due to some new animals that would have to be redone aka lion and snake.
Swarm Route -
Pros: New graphics and pets for the beastlord community and overall community of Norrath to be in awe of what Beastlords can do as a CLASS DEFINING ABILITY. These warders will provide utility in raids due to their special abilities and skills and will promote the beastlord class to be sought out more for raiding guilds and grouping/soloing and offer uniqueness once again to the class.
- Some of the graphics for these new animals already exsist so not much work there.
- These new swarms will be affected by our pet DPS AAs and pet foci like normal just like our regular warder.
- Beastlords will actually want to summon these different swarms for situational uses for RAIDS and not just have another werewolf pet.
Cons: Some graphic work and coding due to some new animals that would have to be redone aka lion and snake.
Make these new different pets be given one per level (76-80), or make them be quests that a decent normal group can help a beastlord to attain these spells, or soloable/duoable at the least....These spells should be provided to both the casual and the raider so that both sides can have FUN with new pets to control in addtion to our "regular racial warders" and will provide something DIFFERENT and UNQUIE and UTILITY by using our pets.
Please note the special abilities for each animal are already innate abilites that they will have once summoned. They do not need an additional proc spell for these speicific abilities because that is just a waste, let these abilities be innate and allow for the normal warder proc to stack with these innate abilites, or dont allow the normal pet proc to stack but allow the Epic 1.5/Epic 2.0 weapon proc to stack at the least, along with Hobble of Spirits.
New Swarm or Warders
Spirit of the Scale, summons a Python snake or Black mamba snake, hits are bites, special abilties, poison DD damage for 1300, special skill can kick the enemy. =P Can flurry, enrage.
Roar of the Lion, summons a Lion, hits are bites, bash, special ability Mual, has a chance to decrease strg/dex/agi , plus consits of a triple attack that equals to 2000 dmg. Can flurry, enrage.
Spirit of the Grizzly, summons a Grizzly bear (postorms graphic), hits are bites,bash, special ability Bear Hug, can crush your enemy for 1800 dmg and cripple them making them weaker against magical attacks. Can flurry, enrage.
Pride of the Puma, summons a puma (DON graphic, color yellow), hits are bites, bash, special ability Tearing Gash, can make your enemy bleed for 1400 dmg (dot) and slow their movement speed, making them weaker to melee attacks. Can flurry, enrage.
Spirit of The Great Tiger, summons a white bengal tiger (new DON white tiger graphic), hits are bites, bash, special ability, Roar of the Tiger, can make your enemies be stunned and hit for 1500 DD dmg (AE Stun 0.0 or 5.0? or single stun?) for a short time. Can flurry, enrage.
The numbers for damage for these examples are just examples, they can be played with, but seriously consider giving a chance to these numbers as is or as a possibility.
THE LAST IDEA FOR AA UNQUINESS FOR BSTS
The Final idea that I have for this proposal of mine is this, create AAs that are named as these Warder ideas, but make them be an AA ability like Feral Swipe. This AA ability has a refresh of 1min, it will basically imbue the beastlord with a SELF BUFF only, this buff will give us the innate ability (randomly of course) to PROC one of these exact pets and that particular pet will use the special abilites that I laid out.
So example, I spend 9 AAs to get Spirit of the Great Tiger, I make a hotkey, I press the hotkey, the buff is a self bst buff only and will last for 75 minutes. I am attacking a mob with raid buffs and haste ect, I proc on the mob, a White bengal Tiger appears and is on my target (just like normal swarm pet) and attacks like normal, and has a chance to proc a 1500 DD stun on the enemy, then disappears until I proc it again.
If this idea were to be used, allow these AA pet procs to be used with Feral Swipe and future upgrades of that AA along with Rake. Another issue is only ONE AA Pet Proc can be used at a time, they will NOT stack.
So if I have Spirit of the Great Tiger and Spirit of the Puma, and I press the hotkey for Puma and then press hotkey for Great Tiger, Puma will be overwritten by Great Tiger, and vice versa, therefore they will not stack. Additional note, these are additional pets to normal Warder if we were to summon one during a raid + this pet proc AA+beastial empathy/ BATM...although I guess I could understand if you wouldn't want this AA pet proc to allow werewolf swarm to be used, but I see no reason why it should be that way since this would be separate due to being a proc buff self only.
Thanks again for any consideration.
some idea's are already being used / taken iirc, but I will talk with nodyin tonight probbly so we can see if I cant get something in there.
I like all your ideas.. the swarm AA idea is top notch... sigh if we like it it will not happen...
As normal pets, your proposed warder's represent too large of a DPS improvement for SoE to swallow. Thats a 400-600+% increase in the proc damage alone. While our pets do need some help in the dps department, I dont see SoE giving them a dot with a base damage that exceeds the best spell a necromancer can cast (aside from the fact that dot procs just plain suck for raids).
Tying improving our raid utility to pets is not a good idea (see steel trap jaws discussion). Give us the ability (rather then our warders) so we gain the ability to at least see when the effect wears off.
Too be truthful, with LoN in now. I don't see why we can't start really talking about the warder being a mount now. Heck even if we can't have our pet while we are riding him as a mount, ie do damage. It at least be a unique little toy.
Quote from: Rabekiz on August 24, 2007, 01:50:46 PM
Tying improving our raid utility to pets is not a good idea (see steel trap jaws discussion).
Meant to say "Trying to improve our raid utility thru pets is not a good idea"
I concur with Rabekiz. For one those numbers that you have proposed are largely out of proportion and simply won't happen. If you were to cut them in half you might get lucky, but even then it would be a stretch. I also don't want more utility for my pet. I want the utility myself. Relying on a pet to do an AE stun for my raid or make it weaker to magical attacks is something that I don't want to have to put effort into. It would mean keeping my pet alive through whatever encounter is needed, and then getting it to do whatever is needed, along with keeping that effect going.
I'd rather have my current pet improved then get another pet that entirely surpasses it on DPS. Plus controlling two pets (if I am reading it right) seems like it would be a huge hassle.
Pet dps *could* be scaled/improved simpler by making a new short duration pet buff, in a similar vein to the zerker Cascading Rage ability.
How about something like a 4 stage doom type rune for the warder:
Cast pet doom thingy 0.5 sec cast time, autobuff the pet, ala epic 2.0 click, ie dont switch target.
1st stage - 30sec duration Doom type rune - Increase warder damage 100%; autocast Stage 2 on Fade
2nd stage - 30sec duration Doom type rune - Increase warder damage 175%: autocast Stage 3 on Fade
3rd stage - 30sec duration Doom type rune - Increase warder damage 250%; autocast Stage 4 on Fade - final Stage
4th stage - 30sec duration Doom type rune - Increase warder damage 350% + add a decent sized proc 500 ish (its only on for 30sec)
Make it cost a suitably large amount of mana. For starters, its fire and forget, back to your usual stuff after you cast it. At 2 min duration (most group mobs dont last anywhere near 2mins, let alone 60 sec) so this doesnt make the warder a dps freak in group type gameplay but will certainly enhance the warder on raid mobs or when plenty of non mezzed targets around so the buff is getting value the longer he is in combat. Because its a staged rune, obviously you wont be tempted to recast it early, because he will be getting the most benefit of the buff between the 90sec - 2min stage - so no need to put an arbitrary recast delay on the spell.
Numbers - damage mod and/or proc amount - mana cost adjusted for balance, mod amounts were off the top of my head and just shown to illustrate how it would work. Just an idea I had a long time ago.
more like
1st stage: increase warder damage 100% for 1-2 rounds
<warder dead>
heh
At least they again acknowledged pet survivability in the last dev round table when a mage asked somethingorother about em.
No this isnt controlling two pets, these pets would be an ADDITIONAL WARDER that you can control. AKA Instead of using your regular Racial Warder pet, you can summon a Grizzly bear, a puma, a snake ect....and control that SINGLE pet like you do your Racial Warder....The trick is each animal has a special ability that it only has thus making the pet situational and have a type of different utility.
Also for those worried about numbers, those were just EXAMPLES of NUMBERS, they are for you to play with, they were just put there to give you and everyone else an example of what my idea looks like to me in my mind.
And we're BEASTLORDS we're suppose to keep our pets alive and worry somewhat about our pets. I am all for the beastlord themselves to have special abilities and more utility and things but we cannot just make our warders go away and forget about them. The beastlord class from my point of view since creation from level 1 is that our warder and ourself have a special bond together since you've leveled all your "life" together in a sense.....Yes pets are weak and have survivability issues on certain raids but if you think in different ways on how to use your pet on those exact same raids maybe you could realize you just needed a different strategy and with different tactics some of the tools that we have right now are pretty decent (aka promised mending and pet lay on hands).
I totally agree with mewzee. The new situational pets, as a possible "instead of" pet would work to a great advantage. HOWEVER, the first thing on all the pet class plate, is the bloody pet survivability in all situations. Lets not forget that not all bsts are raids, and that they don't have access to the higher end pet foci. Such being said, that means that their pets won't last nearly as long as ours with even the anguish foci (which I would kill to get). Personally first thing on the agenda, scaling pet surviving, our dps/utility in all ranges (solo, group, raid), and then our pets. But all in all, I LOVE the suggestions made here and pray they happen.s
If your proposed idea went live, under what situation would you use our normal warder? The only time I can think of is for snare in groups because at that time I would not want a dot procced in order to do snares.
I guess what I am getting at is that if you want to go with the concept of the beastlord being the master of all beasts it is okay (though I prefer the concept of a certain affinity with one animal), but you would need some options to keep our original warder on par with the new proposed pets or there would be no reason to ever summon it. You also would need to address pet survivability for those in higher-level content.
Wow haven't seen this thread for a while.
Well I am glad you folks liked the proposed ideas more or less.
Yes I have brought up pet surviability alot, and yes our normal warder would have to be upgraded ect and kept in line with these new proposed pets so that we can use them all. My idea was merely that, a creative idea that maybe people haven't explored at all, and that I came up with and thought that *maybe* it could be given a shot and would be creative enough to give beastlords something new and fun and maybe the devs would even consider.
I also came up with these different pets because maybe beastlords who are casual players, soloers, groupers, mid-tier guilds, small friend guilds, raiding guilds, high end game raiding, can find uses for these different types of pets for the situation and themselves be creative with how they use said pets. Some might be used more than others ect, but in the end it was just suggestions and ideas to throw out.
If SOE were to use my idea's, wow I'd be shocked and honored and would hope the contribution would be a great one for the beastlord class as a whole.
Just a thought re pet survivability -
Keep solo and group pets more or less as they are now (personally its a rare mob that i do in solo or group content that kills the pet unless its seriously above 'your' level or peeps just not paying attention etc - the normal way a peep dies in solo or group content)
But for raids ie 2 or more groups have a 'raid' buff for pets that scales with the number of groups in the raid (or to avoid groups of just two peeps per group in a raid then maybe scale it to the number of peeps in the raid). The buff would last the whole time the beastie was in the raid and could be done in such a way that as a group is added to the raid an additional buff is added to the pet and if a group leaves the buff fades (or if its done on the number of peeps in a raid then have a certain number requirement ie lvl 1 raid buff 7 to 12 peeps in raid lvl 2 raid buff 13 to 18 peeps and so on.
That in my opinion would go a fair way to solving the pet surviving issue on raids without grossing the pet out for solo/group content (not that i would complain too loudly if the raid buffed pet lasted till it or i died :)
Yeah nice ideas Mewz, would like to have a Doctor Doolittle type function to do certain roles. In fact I probably wouldn't mind if some functions were given over to AA pets just so I could feel like a beastlord again instead of having my pets perma suspended or parked away from mobs.
Thelynx, I think it would be extremely hard to then tune that to the various levels of raiding. I know some people have brought up a similar based idea for pet survivability, but linking it to numbers would then mean that people raiding elementals/time (72 players) would have more powerful pets than those raiding Solteris (54), unless you made some funky code to buff the pet according to zone as well. Pet survivability needs to be more linked in with the pet focus I think. So if you're using Anguish boots maybe get 5% shielding, dot, spell and 20 avoidance, If you're using DP belt then 10% and 40, TSS arms/range, 15% and 60 and TBS gloves/ear 20% and 80. Obviously figures I've just come up with in my head and don't know if it would work, but I think probably easier to add this to code.
Guess we just have to wait and see next month how pets turn out and what kind of increases in class function we can expect.
I think one idea that should be addressed, and might just up our dps by quite a bit. We're "lords of beasts", why are we strapped to a single pet? I wouldn't mind at least suggesting that it be considered to allow us to control more than one permanently summoned pet. I think it'd make a great AA, have to buy a rather expensive AA to allow us to control more than one warder at a time. Yes, it would require greater concentration and skill to maintain. But I think it would be a testament to our versatility and to the core of what our class is.
We can't keep up one pet, due to overall pet mitigation, how would you suggest being able to keep up both pets? Also, there comes in to the coding issue, where as.. our pet heal auto targets our pet.. which would it target first?
Edit: Also, some ideas make sense in our heads, but once you look at it on paper.. it wouldn't work. Even if we had two pets, last night, we were attempting Udengar (2%.. argh!) But anyway, before we could even put our pets on Udengar, we were killing the loyalist, The loyalist took out all beastlord pets (other then mine, cause I didn't have one up!) in two ae ramp rounds. Now think of the same situation, if we were to be able to put our pets on Udengar, he ramps.. for 8k!.. how long do you think two pets would last on him? forget two pets, If we were able to control 100 pets, how many would live, if pet mitigation was not looked at? It doesn't matter if we have 1, or 1000, pets up. They're all going to go splat, after the first round of AE ramp. We should be focusing on pushing the devs to look at pet hps/mitigation, above all else. As I've stated numerous times, a dead pet is 0 dps.
lolol Again i don't know where you all are getting this "controling of 2nd pet"...
My idea was not that you have Tigger pet (aka warder) and then a 2nd new pet....My idea was additional different pets, with different abilities that you could use INSTEAD of the WARDER....So instead of just mr.tigger (or whatever racial warder you have), you could use the ones i made up...they would be situational but I still think they could be useful....but first pet survivability needs to be boosted big time so that such a thing could be useful.
If you think about it, we already kinda do "control" a 2nd pet (or 4 more if u think of the BATM pet proc), we just can't really "control" it via attack commands, and back off commands, we just target a monster, cast the werewolf spell and off they go! the little prettys! when they proc n snarl n howl n claw n kill shiiit up...hehe
Oh yea, I also had forgotten but, it would be great if beastlords, who are the lords of beasts, could get various AA for swarm pets just like every single other class who has an AA swarm except us..i guess since we have a spell they think we have our swarm pet, but if you ask me, something mana free is always nice to have. /shrug
/blows her Dog Whistle....Here Lassee here boy!
Quote from: Tigrah on October 24, 2007, 04:07:37 PM
I think one idea that should be addressed, and might just up our dps by quite a bit. We're "lords of beasts", why are we strapped to a single pet? I wouldn't mind at least suggesting that it be considered to allow us to control more than one permanently summoned pet.
That's what I was commenting on.
hrmmm
A - when it comes to pets, I have little faith left that the developers to create something acceptable to the community.
B - Fix our existant abilities, rather than get new ones added. Druids are sort-of in that boat right now...tons of occasionally/situationally useful abilities, such that they need about 20 spell gems currently, vs. what they have available...rather than fix current spell lines, devs keep adding new ones that aren't able to replace old ones, doubling spells needed.
C - Now's a semi-useless time for input. First, beta's almost over...it's about impossible to get something added once beta starts, much less ~3 weeks from it's end. Second, once beta comes out, focus will be on tuning the expansion - which happens to be one of our (potentially) best chances to get itemization (/groan), and spells worked on. Not that it's worthless to give ideas/feedback (though I don't like yours /shrug), but prepare to have huge mega-loads of patience for seeing this through.
D - My overall EQ Feedback - it's time to work to start reducing the raid size to 36 or 42 max. Pref. 36, personally. I think that'd have some of the largest possible impact for the health of the raiding game.
I think reducing a raid size is of limited use and something else needs to be done to draw players back to EQ. Mainly if older players and new players knew that SoE actually paid attention and would complete beta's before releasing a product to imbibe some confidence back to the community.
Whilst I know AB is a somewhat unique server my guild has approximately 50-60 players online most nights, sometimes nearing 70. Other top end guilds on the server have up to 20people sitting out of raids some nights. Reducing raid size is going to compound problems where there are none for lots of people.
I like some of the ideas suggested here and would like new utility added to beastlords. We don't have any occasionally / situationally useful abilities so SoE adding some wouldn't create a problem for us and would happy to see devs finally listening to what the majority of bst's have asked for in more utility.
Quote from: Hanelce on October 25, 2007, 07:16:43 PM
Quote from: Humlaine on October 25, 2007, 04:03:29 PM
hrmmm
Thanks for the input..
oh I am sorry, I tend to see what people put in what they want before I chime in on this.
The way I see it, raid reduction isnt the answer here, while I do believe its time to add in the smaller raids for lesser guilds, who don't see the numbers high end guilds do. I really would like to see more 24 , and 36 man raid zones, another expansion like Ldon would be a good thing at this stage in the game speaking with how low numbers can really hurt guilds and the player population isn't what it was back in Ldon era.
Now on the dual pet idea's, while I do like this, I think it would be leading us to a familiar state which I really dont want us to see, now thats not to say I don't want to see more utility based through our pets. I think mages are a great forground for what we could get in terms of utility, like their mana regen from pets, and having more then one pet, say one that casts, instead of pure melee's, or one that does both, and has a mana pool to go along with it. There are tons out there, and endless possibilities I see.
Quote from: Humlaine on October 26, 2007, 01:17:59 PM
Quote from: Hanelce on October 25, 2007, 07:16:43 PM
Quote from: Humlaine on October 25, 2007, 04:03:29 PM
hrmmm
Thanks for the input..
oh I am sorry, I tend to see what people put in what they want before I chime in on this.
I see your point about letting other people chime in... but.. this thread is 2 pages long. Plenty of time for you to let people put in their input and make a comment on it.
Don't worry.. I'm not gonna be on your case much longer. As much as I love my beast, I've decided to hang up my kilt. Not leave.. just different class boards that I'll be frequenting.
Wizard, Cleric or Warrior I think is the way to go if you want to see positive beneficial work on your class.
Quote from: Hanelce on October 26, 2007, 07:48:01 PM
Quote from: Humlaine on October 26, 2007, 01:17:59 PM
Quote from: Hanelce on October 25, 2007, 07:16:43 PM
Quote from: Humlaine on October 25, 2007, 04:03:29 PM
hrmmm
Thanks for the input..
oh I am sorry, I tend to see what people put in what they want before I chime in on this.
I see your point about letting other people chime in... but.. this thread is 2 pages long. Plenty of time for you to let people put in their input and make a comment on it.
Don't worry.. I'm not gonna be on your case much longer. As much as I love my beast, I've decided to hang up my kilt. Not leave.. just different class boards that I'll be frequenting.
I have to see you reroll hanelce, but I understand man, the lack of effort from the dev team + just the compounding
of old issues is leaving alot of people at a loss. I myself am disappointed in what I've seen so far.
Quote from: Maylian on October 27, 2007, 12:21:03 AM
Wizard, Cleric or Warrior I think is the way to go if you want to see positive beneficial work on your class.
I already started leveling a zerker..... then.. someone from my guild gave me a zerker. so started out a few levels, learned the class, somewhat.. now I'm 71 with 172 aa's /shrug..
Quote from: Hanelce on October 27, 2007, 03:20:31 AM
Quote from: Maylian on October 27, 2007, 12:21:03 AM
Wizard, Cleric or Warrior I think is the way to go if you want to see positive beneficial work on your class.
I already started leveling a zerker..... then.. someone from my guild gave me a zerker. so started out a few levels, learned the class, somewhat.. now I'm 71 with 172 aa's /shrug..
I know a few others beasts who have rerolled to zerker's, even I have a alt zerker, he's probbly my favorite character next to huml
My favorite alt would have to be my bard. I couldn't get into the zerk I made to even level him up past 15.
I am doing a wizzie here as I have no confidence at all in them correcting the beastlord :x
Trouble I have is that I am the only beastlord our guild has so they are very reluctant for me to change classes :-o
I re-activated the warrior my bst replaced as main way back when. He's currently getting anguished geared with 435aa/25aa banked. Keeping my bst waiting in the wings just in case SoF suprises me but I'm not holding my breath.
Humlaine, can you feed this info back. Maybe they'll give us some attention if they realise that half the bst population is on the verge of rerolling, even if its just to give us a "swap to class XX" AA :roll:
One wonders if soe are deliberately trying to p*ss the beastlord community off sufficiently that so few peeps decide to play a beastie any more, that they can drop the entire class and allow shammies to focus on buffs, magicians to focus on pets and zerkers to focus on dps. Soe could then 'focus' (for want of a better word :p) on them without worrying about chucking a few bones to the beasties that might offend the aforementioned classes if it encrouched too much into 'their' territory.
Was funny tonight I was given the option of levelling my bard to 75 and a few AA's and switching mains. Maybe.....
I'm trying to decide on playing Pally, or wiz atm. Not much faith in either of my main's issues being taken care of (BST, and druid).
I'm not re-rolling anything. This is the best toon for my play style.
Alt zerker is now 75 anguish and almost flagged for DPoB. Also waiting for SoF to if there is a change to BLs other wise I will change mains to Zerk.
I think it would be nice for devs to see the mirgation happening as well. Thanks
Kope
Trust me, I don't want to see anyone re-roll but that being said I cant stop anyone. Now I will say the expansion brings alot of positives to our class, there are a few things I am not happy about but alot of good stuff! I will be posting when NDA is lifted on what's what and such no need to worry.
Quote from: Humlaine on October 30, 2007, 12:43:09 PM
Trust me, I don't want to see anyone re-roll but that being said I cant stop anyone. Now I will say the expansion brings alot of positives to our class, there are a few things I am not happy about but alot of good stuff! I will be posting when NDA is lifted on what's what and such no need to worry.
Yet only 4 days ago you posted this
Quote from: Humlaine
I have to see you reroll hanelce, but I understand man, the lack of effort from the dev team + just the compounding
of old issues is leaving alot of people at a loss. I myself am disappointed in what I've seen so far.
One wonders what sony could have done in a couple of days to cause a flip like this. From past history offered more free lunches?
when will the NDA be lifted? i think i missed that somewhere.
There's no date for the NDA to be lifted yet...probably approx. 1 week before release though.
I am disappointed as a whole, but thats just me, overall there's alot of good things comming out, if your gonna try and use my own words against me it wont work, I don't play like that and I wont let people badger me or any other person on these forums. Cant a person be frustrated without people using it against them? or is everyone here bitter?
/raises hand for the bitter option.
I agree with you Hum, disappointed in what I've seen but more so with the dialogue going on with SoE. I still love the class and enjoy playing the game but I gave up on soloing ages ago and brought my cleric over which makes things a lot more possible. Maybe I'll just continue to play Guitar Hero and hope that I get arthritis and so a proper reason to make another class :roll:
Quote from: Humlaine on October 30, 2007, 12:43:09 PM
Now I will say the expansion brings alot of positives to our class, there are a few things I am not happy about but alot of good stuff! I will be posting when NDA is lifted on what's what and such no need to worry.
As a casual player I only ask that you look at what the other classes are gaining/losing also and compare them to us. If the net result is more utility for us....GOOD!!! but if the result is what we have recieved in the past which is the short end of the stick....(CENSOR)!!!
In another way...
If they are finally giving us a new shiny Chevy(What we have been asking for) but giving everyone else in the community a Ferrari then we may be getting what we want but in the end we are still getting shafted compared to the community.
I'm not in the beta (no shock if you know me) but you are as well as others who frequent these boards so mabye people can do some snooping and look at what others have on there slate so if we aren't getting the "Ferrari" (compared to others) we can make sure as a class no one else will /grin
Hope all turns out well for us and we get the "Ferrari" like everyone else =)
-Grimwar (Prexus)
Quote from: Humlaine on October 30, 2007, 09:18:56 PM
I am disappointed as a whole, but thats just me, overall there's alot of good things comming out, if your gonna try and use my own words against me it wont work, I don't play like that and I wont let people badger me or any other person on these forums. Cant a person be frustrated without people using it against them? or is everyone here bitter?
A - most people here are bitter, aye. You'll find that on most class forums, however. It's bound to happen in any game this old, imo.
B - In the two quotes above, you were mostly positive in one (to the extent of using an exclamation point), and mostly negative in the other. Think whatever you want about the system/upcoming features/devs/beta process, but please be consistent. Being a CC, people will pay some attention to you - consistency is needed to have any chance of community support. Nobody's trying to use your words against you (to what end, I don't even know)
Quote from: Humlaine on October 30, 2007, 09:18:56 PM
I am disappointed as a whole, but thats just me, overall there's alot of good things comming out, if your gonna try and use my own words against me it wont work, I don't play like that and I wont let people badger me or any other person on these forums. Cant a person be frustrated without people using it against them? or is everyone here bitter?
Mate you posted that you were disappointed in what you had seen so far and the lack of effort from the devs. Then 3 days later there are only a few things your not happy with and a lot of good stuff. :?
What I posted wasn't badgering (how can you badger someone with one post?) or using your own words against you (paranoid much?), you did a back flip on how you see the progression of our class.
I asked why the change, now I see you are disappointed as a whole but there are a lot of good things coming out. I would take that to mean there are some good things in general (or for other classes) but the beastlord class is once again getting screwed.
Please tell me I am wrong, and I really hope there isn't another Ferocity spell in our line-up, the devs have admitted on more than one occasion there is nothing they can do to improve the spell and it doesn't actually do anything yet they keep giving us mana hog upgrades. :|
Hum is Right there is alot of good thigns Inc for us, but as a Whole for SoF ita so so not what i want but i'll take it far betetr then in the past i think. you all will seee. give him like a week or 2 to show ya st hand then SoE lets us talk aboult it Dam lockdowns ya know =-P.
It was time for me to De-Tag Gxser from the raiding guild he was in. It's a simple logic that really P***** me off , yet it's a realistic logic nonetheless .
Gxser is a maxed out beastlord that has no usefulness in a raid = no reason to be in a raiding guild.
The new expansion Blows hard , thats a very close and real opinion most will probably have = Raiding Bst will still be useless in a raiding guild.
I have made a zerker currently level 50, knowing I put 6 years into Gxser and hes maxed, duoing/soloing this zerker will be an even greater challenge that does not require a raiding guild and has no place in a raiding guild until flags/keys/levels/AA's can warrant it.
All this means one thing, the classs I enjoy the most, the reason why I never played an alt or even made an alt until a couple of months ago, has went down the drain, currently searching for lower depths of sewer sludge to lay itself in.
These opinions are my own.
These opinions are based on my 6 years of knowledge of my Beastlord.
I'm not interested in those that try and play make believe that this Class is not currently hosed. If I had to dig deep down and come up with one word to describe SoF and our class it would be "Disappointed". Although that really has been the story of most of our lives anyway, so in the end = nothing new.
Here's hoping that before EQ goes into retirement, SoE will give me a reason to pull my Beastlord out of his retirement for one last Hoorah!
Peace
Clearly making everyone in the raid regenerate 1680 mana and 3600 hitpoints is useless.
Clearly . nice to see we are in agreement. Of course most bsts are. It's a shame that so many other classes seem to dictate what we can and cannot have to the point brink of extinction. Although when their class is falling on hard times then the unity begins gotta love it.
Quote from: Inphared on November 01, 2007, 05:29:53 AM
Clearly making everyone in the raid regenerate 1680 mana and 3600 hitpoints is useless.
Think you need to be careful about what you say there Inphared. Currently we get a whooping 140mana regen from max'd paragon. For an amazing 840total mana, approximately 5% of a mana pool in todays standards for a modest 16k mana pool. According to Lucy max level Paragon is 1440, which is probably the SoF paragon, yet raid mana pools are going up to around 30-40k? This equates to just under 5% or 4% in SoF terms, hardly class defining.
I posted a message on the SoE boards about a character exchange service they could provide where you do a one off class switch to a comparably geared and AA'd new class. That post got removed extremely quickly by moderators though. I don't think that SoE are getting the idea that we want to see a return to the utility that we once had, with slow being phased out we have nothing else apart from a small regen buff and some useless hp buffs.
Jesus christ, I think Im gonna end up retiring or something :(....
Spells are not getting the needed attention nor feedback from us beta testers (yes i was in beta), and tons of ideas for AAs, spells and feedback I have provided to the devs have not gotten much response at all....
I like a few things they are giving us in SOF, but I agree that in the end I think everything is gonna be a disappointment...unless all the sudden when SOF live comes out, they happened to take out their heads from their bootys and listened to the player base and fixed everything they fugged up in 3 days or something...
deep sigh.....
Quote from: Mewzee on November 01, 2007, 10:30:53 AM
Spells are not getting the needed attention nor feedback from us beta testers (yes i was in beta), and tons of ideas for AAs, spells and feedback I have provided to the devs have not gotten much response at all....
Sadly Mewzee the problem you are having is that if you do a /who all Mewzee it comes up as Beastlord. If it is anything like the TBS Beta to get any feedback on beastlord spells or to get any changes made it should come back as Magician.
Mages are in a very similar position, possibly even worse than bsts. If you want spell feedback and work carried out on them then be a wizard or cleric, they are the only two casters worth the time....
Casters in a "good" place right now:
Cleric - though (rightfully) pissy about group-CH nerf. 72% spell effectiveness lost!
Shaman (mostly)
Wizard - very yes
Necro (sorta)
Bad:
Mage (the worst)
Druid (pretty easily fixed, but serious problems atm)
Chanter (nfc what next expansion will do though, I doubt enough, even given the rumors that having an enc in group will boost everybody's xp and whatnot.)
Quote from: Khauruk on November 01, 2007, 01:28:27 PM
Chanter (nfc what next expansion will do though, I doubt enough, even given the rumors that having an enc in group will boost everybody's xp and whatnot.)
That would be the lamest idea evar. Evar. That's like saying if you pick the best kickball player, you have to take the fat kid too.
That aside, I think you guys are starting to realize why I stopped levelling my 3rd bst at 66 (only for a couple easily obtained TSS gear items), in favor of my necro.
If I can't have raid utility, or hell, even group preference, at least give me godly soloability. Beastlords have and will receive neither. Ever. Adjust to that.
ok, I am going to be blunt here, your asking for the Queens jewels and well, you aren't going to get those right off the bat, I am sorry it just isn't going to happen, you can not expect 1000% turn around, even more so from SoE. That being said we are moving in a good direction, there is alot of good things for us in the next expansion. Improvements are comming to our class as a whole, More so for the grouping bst actually then the raiding one. Our class is a work in progress just give it some time.
Logical scalability == Queen's Jewels???
BST has been a broken class since PoP. The changes in SoF are too little, too late, as far as I'm concerned. They need to retroactively FIX essential parts of the class. Not bandaid some shit together and charge me $30 for what they should have done for my $15/mo already.
Perhaps BST will be a viable class again at level 100....I won't suffer the boredom of levels 66-99 to find out.
Humlaine, do you think that possibly within the near future for all beastlords. That SoE will go through or at least beta some of the ideas that we have come up with?
Also, will we see any noticeable differences on r utility or r dps on this next expansion?
This whole forum is more negative than ever in my mind. I will keep playing my beastlord. I absolutely love this class. I know what seems to be lacking. Which is about everything that we previously had needs to be looked at again and upgraded to a certain degree. Odds r though the upgrades they see that r 'fit' will never be used by beastlords or will never be needed.
If SoE would realize what they have done to other classes compared to ours.
Monks tome clawstrikers is 288 skill atk at its rk. 1 version, ours was 65
Now, Monks new tome is 351 rk. 1, ours a pathetic 89 at rk. 1
They demote r class and promote monks even farther. Only one of the things i dislike of the 'upgrades' we got. That info was from allahkazam's website. They have spells and tomes already posted for all classes to my knowledge.
If we were to come back as a class, we need equal upgrades. Not ones that keep us further and further apart.
Personally, ill keep playing my beastlord. If none of u have realized we arent in a bad position. At least on my server there r only 17 total berserkers on compared to r class....
With that, Humlaine, i hope you will get the devs attention and get r problems fixed sometime in the future.
Hum, don't be blunt you scare me. Sounds you like are trying to either get money from me for an election or a vote. You already got the job now its time to be vocal to the people that have never listened. Oh we have listened to a bunch of nonesense for over 4 years now. Please call the right number when you pick up the phone or tye in the right e-mail address to those that ignore the beast community.
Your blunt is a prime example of rhetoric that we have been told on nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuumerous occasions. We know we are a work in progress , look how long they have worked to really kick the crap out of our class. We have been told expansion after expansion we will see fixes or upgrades or new stuff. Enough already. We both know what the new expansion brings and its jive to a raiding bst. Now when they offer some group stuff for a bst its probably because its the last thing they have left to break for us and want to keep that bone dangling from a string.
You can either get on their case or stay quiet. At any rate please dont be blunt again, sounds like eqdevs on our boards spouting the same trash instead of fighting tooth and nail to get us fixed.
I am getting angry, and bitter which in general does no good , but revolts were built on 1 person speaking their mind loud enough for others to decide if they too were tired of it. Does that need to happen here ? Is 4 years of this enough to finally stand up to every class that has helped in the demise of our class and tell them to shut up and worry about their toons while we defend our class and the crap we really need fixed , put back , or new added ?
It has to start with our CC and Hum, thats you bro. You speak loud enough I guarantee you'll have the support.
Let's do this !
Why don't we all simmer the hell down until beta is over, and the people in beta can do more than hint at things? Nothing can be accomplished right now except stroking our own egos/aggravations.
Gxser, you're acting like the entire class is going down the goddamn shitter and it's not. Get over yourself, jesus.
Your right Khauruk. But I question whether we should calm down and wait again for more disappointment. Or maybe this is the time we need to get fired up about our concerns. Seriously, Khauruk when is the right time start defending and demanding for our class.
Inphra I really can't stand people like you, please dont post with regards to me. You add nothing and can add nothing to the conversation. You can ride the coat tails of a guild or 2 or 3 , and now your the authority on who can post or have an open opinionon these boards or others??? I thought we had a CC or do you tell him when he can and cannot post now and what his opinion should be. Its a truth and it's ok bud your allowed to play the way you feel is best self serving to you but it stops with you. Conversating with you is counter-productive so I will stop here, party on.
Sorry for that derail Khauruk , I personally prefer not to ride the coat tails of my guild and prefer to have a reason to be in a raidng guild earning my way through production, uniqueness, utility which the beast class in that department is hurting bad and waiting for another expansion for it to go further has fueled this fired. I have been guilty sitting by and taking it the last few years just like everyone else, but at some point we have to break the same ole same ole wait for next expansion mold. Do you still feel we should stay the course Khauruk, they will fix that much in SoF? I'm not breaking any NDA's, but you know what I mean. My thought is , if we get loud enough for the first time maybe they will get on top of a few more things when SoF comes out and possibly the near future after its release and then we can see progess has been realised. That's why I am asking I value your opinion on this.
I like Gxser's approach to this. I think we have for a very long time been patient and diplomatic about the situation we're in and given SoE the benefit of the doubt and seen slight improvements each expansion. Unfortunately we don't have the power to call a serverwide strike like warriors did years ago as a catalyst for Sony to fix them. Without getting extremely vocal then I see no reason why they will not just accept the bones they've thrown us in SoF and ignore us until the next expansion. I think with regards to pets we are seeing some progress in SoE mindset now that mages and beasts are teaming up with their complaints about pets.
Unfortunately we are getting zero response about our class and one of the most vocal people about our class is a berserker.
QuoteSeriously, Khauruk when is the right time start defending and demanding for our class.
How about when those of the community that are in the beta can actually say what's happening? [rather than simply hinting about things trying not to break NDAs, which have already been broken at least once in this thread (and by inference several more times)]
If you're in beta, you have much better resources right now, as you'll be able to communicate much more closely with the developers. If you're in beta, you can communicate with a generally more informed group of players on the SOE beta boards. If you're in beta, you know at least what's planned to go live.
If you're not in beta, you haven't a clue about what's happening, except for parses from the spells_us.txt file/Lucy, random rumors, our CC who can't seem to make up his mind whether this expansion is overall good for us or not, and the general crapstorm being flung all over the place against SoE.
When NDA is lifted, and spells/AA/zone info is published, start collecting your eggs in a basket.
For immediate tuning:
*What doesn't work as implemented
*What needs to be tweaked
*Collect parses (doublequicktime, if at all possible)
*modifications that don't need code support
Compile, analyze, synthesize, and edit repeatedly with utmost ruckus.
Then, when the expansion goes live, start to compile data about itemization, our abilities compared to NPCs and other classes, etc,... and use that as cannon fodder.
And, forward through Humlaine collectively, through the SOE forums as a community, and individually in PMs to Prathun (spells), Nodyin (AAs), Maddoc (game mechanics), Rashere (overall design), Rytan (pets), Ngreth (Tradeskills).
I'm not saying we won't have great changes that need to be made, or that our class isn't being bent over backwards (most probably feel their classes are getting shafted). But, nobody has even tried to make a case in this thread about it lately - it's just been endless bitching with no evidence. The level of logic displayed in this thread is only approaching high school, rather than the adults that most of us are.
I'm not saying stay the course (way to break NDA there, though.....), I'm not saying things'll be good - I'm not saying jack poopy. I'm saying take the discussion elsewhere if you know details (Hello, Jaeren, we need a beta forum here!), and if you don't have details, don't bother typing since you can't contribute anything of value right now.
Basically, this thread needs to die (in this location anyways) until NDA is lifted.
If you all want to be like that go for it, but I can tell you from past experience it's not going to get much if any results, I am not here to be a total activist. I am here to help the class in general.
no offence, cause i personally dont know you or your toons. But i honestly have to say i dont like y our response here.. Being a total activist for our class is helping the beastlord community... If your suppose to just as you put it help it in general, as you put it, doesnt seem like you would be representing us the way you should be. Just my opion.. but perhaps its the tone i get from reading what you wrote, makes me feel like you dont really feel like pushing things for the beastlord class.
ok you don't know what a CC is really supposed to do then, I am sorry, its not that I don't really want to forward info to the dev's, because I do forward a good amount of information to them, its my job to weed through the hundreds of posts each day here, and on the SoE forums, and make a sound choice at what to pick to send forward. I am not here to lead someones personal vendetta, they can do that on their own by pm'ing the dev's and making various posts on the SoE forums. I will not tell the dev's I want this now or else, or anything along those lines, its not my place to. I relay bugs, class issues, spell concerns, not lead people into battle with the dev's you have the means to do that with pming and posting.
thats fine and you have every right to do that but lets not drag down the people e that enjoy ythe class still, i'm not 100% happy with bst as a class but its my fave and i will continue to play it untll i move on or EQ die's. less drama more Helpful hints.
Quote from: Blarp on November 02, 2007, 08:00:43 PM
thats fine and you have every right to do that but lets not drag down the people e that enjoy ythe class still, i'm not 100% happy with bst as a class but its my fave and i will continue to play it untll i move on or EQ die's. less drama more Helpful hints.
thats all I want, I enjoy the beastlord class, nor will I ever change mains. I will quit EQ and the beastlord class when the game stops existing. If anyone has a issue with me or how I do things PM me, we dont need to makes this a drama board.
If not you, Humlaine, then who? Who has
a) a love of the class
b) a deep understanding of key problems with our class
c) access to devs
d) a voice the devs will listen to
I can shout from the mountain tops about things that have been broken since PoP, or only minorly improved, or addressed but not corrected, and the devs may or may not hear me.
Your title as Class Correspondent means that you are our voice to them. What are you lacking to make it clear to them what is broken? There are several summarized posts listing exactly what is wrong, and why. Search for material posted by your predecessor, and you can take his list as a jumping off point to talk with devs.
My point is this: we've tried for a long time to get them to listen to our polite whispers. What we need in a CC is someone who will shout in their ears until they fix the major issues.
For those of you (Khauruk) who want to "wait and see" some more: get real. I have signed something, too, and details won't matter. As I said earlier, they've missed the point. They've missed the essential problems.
Humlaine, you have the position to make a difference. Don't piss that away with "it's not my place". If not your place, then who?
Let's jump off of the "I Hate Humlaine" bandwagon here and actually think for a moment.
It's not that he's not trying. He is. I hear about it all the time.
I believe it's been stated before that there is a lack of developer communication as to the major problem with ANY class correspondent. You people are acting like Humlaine is god all mighty and are essentially bashing him for doing things that are simply out of his reach. He cannot turn around and say "Hey, rewrite the Beastlord class for me please, I've got one hundred angry people about to rip my head off because they want everything possible fixed at once." That's essentially what you're doing. He is not Superman. He is not God. He cannot do everything that you want. All that he is here for is a channel for communication to go to the developers.
If you've got something you want, freakin' tell him and he'll work with it, but it involves a level of trust that is clearly not being displayed. Ask any other class correspondent. Do you think we're the only class that has people wanting new stuff but not getting it? Do you think the other class correspondents get everything they push to the developers approved or responded to? Yeah, right.
If you think you can do a better job, write a fucking petition to the developers or something and ask them to remove Humlaine from his position and step up to the plate yourself. Otherwise stop blowing smoke all over this thread about how Humlaine sucks, it's stupid and childish.
Quote from: maxawesome on November 02, 2007, 10:10:39 PM
If not you, Humlaine, then who? Who has
a) a love of the class
b) a deep understanding of key problems with our class
c) access to devs
d) a voice the devs will listen to
I can shout from the mountain tops about things that have been broken since PoP, or only minorly improved, or addressed but not corrected, and the devs may or may not hear me.
Your title as Class Correspondent means that you are our voice to them. What are you lacking to make it clear to them what is broken? There are several summarized posts listing exactly what is wrong, and why. Search for material posted by your predecessor, and you can take his list as a jumping off point to talk with devs.
My point is this: we've tried for a long time to get them to listen to our polite whispers. What we need in a CC is someone who will shout in their ears until they fix the major issues.
For those of you (Khauruk) who want to "wait and see" some more: get real. I have signed something, too, and details won't matter. As I said earlier, they've missed the point. They've missed the essential problems.
Humlaine, you have the position to make a difference. Don't piss that away with "it's not my place". If not your place, then who?
I have, relayed 99% of the stuff from these boards the other 1% was bs or uncalled for requests. now with that being said if your wanting results soon as they are sent in, sorry that just isnt going to happen. I am not god, more people then I can PM dev's and post on EQlive forums, I've said it once already and I am not going to repeat myself again, I am not here for a single persons vendetta, I relay information to the dev's other then that I really dont have much contact with them. I dont talk with them everyday nor do I talk with them via aim or anything else. If you want a point to be brought up to the dev's alot of the time the best person to bring up the point is the person who thought it up. Its not a easy task describing someone else's idea to them.
Locking the Thread for now, PM me if you really want something or contact me in Game