If not buffs, then what?

[laissez]

You do not see sham champ or panthering a whole raid, most likely if they added group fero it would be group only, and since i'm alrdy dropping over 2500 mana feroing 4-6 ppl group fero is a welcome.  Also having you fero parse be even slightly accurate you'd have to do atleast 50 parses with the same buffs that means, the same buffs mgb, warcry, auspice etc , the same group set, with the same ppl with the same epic clicks at the same time with the same disc fire off at the same time. well i think i made my point that any parse is not accureate to a degree of 5-10% eaither way.
Also panther is a 20% dmg mod, that doesn't mean a 20% increase in dps.

[Kanan]

Laissez.. tastian has done an incredible amount of his own parsing for ferocity.

The monk who did that parsing on fero had it on for a 10 or 12 (I forget which) hour parse.  The data I mention is good info.  The return on it, in its present form, is pathetic.

You are right abt shm not champing an entire raid.  Its not worth a GoM proc to cast on a caster group.  (my kingdom for GoM, but that's a total pipe dream)  I broached the subject to my guild once.  They, for some reason, went gaga over the idea of group fero.  Except they frankly have no idea of the costs involved.  I wasn't able to nor willing to argue the point there.  But you know what they really liked the idea of?  the resists.. that's it.. just the resists.  The casters, of course, thought it would be a big dps increase.. /points at parsing data that says that ain't so (love peeps that got nfc abt such stuff talking about it.  Much like some people who've never played a pet class always whining about pet push.)

grawr! bleh.. some other board stupidity tickin me off a bit.

The parse information is around.  It backs up how poor the return is on attack over 2k.  Asking for this waste of spellbook space to be group (and 99% probability would be that it would not even be /tgb'able) would make them think they are granting us what we want and making another grievous error instead. 

[Denti]

Can only back the others up, Fero in its current state is nothing usable except for the resists and even that is pretty much useless at least at the higher end (maxed resists for the most part prior fero). The monk parse was very impressive and even worse than what you see for bst only parses, my own around 15 hours of parsing do show a very small percentage increase in dps for us, but apparently it is even less for pure melees.

Asking for a groupversion of a useless spelll wont make it any better, so i wont ask for it if they do not upgrade fero in a way that it is usable again. Oh, just for reference, our 3 beastlords dont use fero on raids anymore since raid parses do not show any increased dps at all.

[jitathab]

If people want resists, there already is a +50 all stat resist mask in dodh that is questable by everyone.  Fero is not worth 750 mana for resists alone for 6.5 minutes base.

[Koocoo]

How about a BL only AA that may help mitigate the biggest (and unjustified) complaint that any group or raid has about warders.

NO PUSH.

Now almost every melee class and many casters contribute to the mobs skating all around the battle area but it is always "Beasties, stop the PUSH!"

We spend a good deal of our time calling the warders off the mob and repositioning to counter the caster push. So much so that we get commands for it.

How about a Restrain AA. It would allow a warder to stop all attacks and casts, be invulnerable but hold the mob where it is for, say, 30 seconds. Think police dog grip on the mob's yayas. With a recast of 15-30 minutes or so it could only be used on major mobs. The raid to hire on multiple beasts to help position the mob and hold it with the MT.

It would drop our dps by a bit, but as we all know, we are not known for our dps at the high end.

Other than that, how about SA covering all 3 needs - +HP, +MANA, and +END.

[Kanan]

ya know.. except for the invulnerability part, I REALLY like that one.  Doesn't fit the cats or bears or gators so well, from a roleplay aspect, but I do like that idea.  Adds a helluva utility.  Granted, I don't see it happening, but that is a neat one.

[Epee]

I would so love an AA such as that.  Would help so much for us to be able to stop a mobs movement for 1 min or so.    This would add another demention for us raid utility wise, not the we have one atm.  I would also like to see an upgraded Perfection.  I would spend 50 aa's just to get perf to 500 mana a tick.  Just a thought

[laissez]

I can see you concerns about group fero, but what i do during a raid, is quite a bit of feroing, useally i try to get everyone fero'ed b4 we engage, and just forget about wear offs on everyone but myself, so having a group fero for me would be a huge upgrade.  I'm not gonna blow my whole mana pool feroing a raid, that would be pure ignoreance and if fero was actually needed i would proally end up dieing due to lack of mana and no heals.  I seriously doubt that they will give of a group fero, just cuase the sham community would complain to much about how its too close to champion.
What i want to see most of all tho is a canni, through aa or spells i don't care.

[Urim]

You do understand laissez that all your feroing amounts to an insignificant increase in raid dps for a large amount of mana, right? It only makes atk classes drool when they see their atk numbers.

[iceborn]

I love the idea of "restrain". It's the best idea I heard in a long time and one that actually makes perfect sense from a role playing point of view, would be useful on raids, and would be difficult for people to complain about.

[laissez]

I do relize that but them drooling makes them happy then i'm ok with that, plus it gets me in the dps groups, and skyrockets my dps.  The high amounts of mana is a none issue since i'll regen to full b4 both fero's refresh.

[Inphared]

useally i try to get everyone fero'ed b4 we engage, and just forget about wear offs on everyone but myself, so having a group fero for me would be a huge upgrade.

According to your magelo, you have no Beneficial Focus, so in reality, you're only keeping Fero on 3 targets before it wears off of your first ones. Seeing as you keep it on yourself, that's (maybe) only 2 other people you're keeping Fero'd. Not really worth it.

I'm not gonna blow my whole mana pool feroing a raid, that would be pure ignoreance and if fero was actually needed i would proally end up dieing due to lack of mana and no heals.

The underlined part is what everyone else has been saying. Fero just isn't worth it. Adding a group version would be... well... not worth it.

They don't need to add a group version of a crappy spell. That would be, again, not worth it. They need to upgrade the current spell. Things that I would like to see, are maybe an attack cap increase, or some kind of mod like double attack or critical hit mod. The duration for the buff makes up for it being "too good", because it's a virtual impossibility to hit more than 5 targets per raid (with DPoB focus).

[laissez]

You might want to look over my magelo again maybe my hat "hint hint"

[Inphared]

My apologies. You have a 30% Beneficial Focus.

My point still stands though -- change the 3 people that you keep Fero on to 4 people.  :-o

Amazing DPS boost? I don't think so.

[Shamno]

Aye considering our new spells. 1 cast of the swarm pet is more likely a bigger boost in DPS and/or damage to the raid then one cast of fero on any class. It is simple ratios now.