Re-Evaluating Top 10?

[Bengali]

I believe a lot of the inconsistency has to do with which camps people do.  If you are in MPG doing the taskfiend camp and you're fighting a lot of discordlings, you won't see a lot of resists since the discordlings don't seem to have abnormally high magic resists. The dragorns aren't too bad either.

If, however, you're deeper in and you're fighting huvuls and lightning diodes then you'll see a lot more resists.  Belly-casting does not change things (I almost always cast slow from within melee range for reasons that people can probably figure out).  If you go to Riftseeksers then you'll bounce slow a lot more too.

[Essant]

Was around blind hunter camp so yea not THE highest level mobs in the zone but yea ..  a series of parses there, looked back over 10 or so fights at one time and had numbers between 250-300 each fight.

You've got better weapons than me, but I religiously chain nuke my 2 biggest - which I will assume you do as well, because I see you have the mana pool and FT to sustain it.

But yea, those are the numbers I came up with.  68 pet added a good chunk of that, btw.

[firebox]

Let me clarify a bit...my first post was vague and brought on by extreme frustration. Overall I think my dps is a lot  lower than other dps classes with comparable gear and aa's...but I do dish out all the hurt I can muster! At lower levels, my buffing and slowing abilities helped compensate for that. At this level I still have lower dps, but very little use for most of my buffs.

As for slowing, sometimes I can, sometimes not.  I don't expect my slow to land every single cast, but in the new expansion I've found several times that I just can't be relied upon as the slower for a group either because of resists or because of agro. I understand having a lower percentage slow, but insane resists, no way to debuff, and no way to shirk agro really hurts our utility as a slowing class. A lot of these problems vary based on group composition,  so even at the same camp my mileage does vary.

Had I been a little less tired and frustrated I might not have been so fatalistic in my complaints. The overall theme remains the same, however - with new challenges, I'd like to re-evaluate the top 10.  I have this horrible vision of being given more basic changes that don't really upgrade my dps or address real challenges like agro control.

My apologies if I overgeneralized in my first post - I do still believe we are an awesome class with great utility.   :D

[firebox]

Essant, I would be more than happy to group with you some time :) All this time in EQ its a wonder we haven't run into each other more often.

Just to clarify, I don't think I mentioned MPG since I normally only go there with a group of friends, and I'm not the main slower for that group. My frustration actually came from an expedition out of Dranik's Scar and a particularly bad run of luck in WoS.  To be fair, in other expeditions I've not had the same problems with slow resists but I do still have agro issues. And WoS is so over-camped that I try to avoid it anyway, though I have been a relatively successful slower there a few times - again, depending on which camp and group composition. I still believe, however, that we deserve a tool for controlling agro and a debuff spell, neither of which would be out of line or overpowering.

[Choppin]

Sorry for the derail but:

Essant, I highly doubt epic 1.5 was a 50 dps upgrade to whatver you had before in offhand.

[Essant]

Well I havent parsed yet with it but I think its probably good for about 20 on weapons alone, plus the added damage from the nuke over what I was getting before with a War Crested Ring might add up significantly.

[Essant]

And yea, Firebox .. id DIE for a debuff spell.  Especially in PoEarth, which is the only place I really have a hell of a time slowing.

[Essant]

I think all classes lose a lot of their functionality in the high end game, its not just beastlords.

I'm leveling a druid right now to 2-box with, and he's kinda fun if you play him right but I wonder how often a 65-70 druid gets to quad kite or charm kite?

Or the paladin that gets to solo undead mobs in high end content?

And my ranger friends bitch all the time that the've become a one-trick pony.

And its rare where I see an Enchanter mez-parking 5 mobs ..

Personally the thing about buffs doesnt really bother me, I dont WANT to be hassled for anything else on raids other than SA.  I -hate- it when we dont have any shamen online and I get a million tells for kraag's and IoS.  I consistently tell rogues to kiss my ass when they ask for Fero.

The only regret is really there are few instances where our specializations make or break a raid.  I can think of a lot of content you would be hell pressed to win without bards.  I can think of places were even Mages are HELLA nice to have.  But we dont really have that luxury.

But generally im pretty happy with the buffs I do have, its just understood that they are mainly for ME when I solo, and small xp groups when there is no shaman.

[Moffett]

The trouble with this is the streakiness. If you only have a 1/2 chance of slowing a mob, then every 30 mobs you're going to need 5+ attempts to slow one no including 2,3 and 4 attempts.

In PoE and PoF slows can be really annoying, I have gone 8 attempts to slow mobs and then they were killed before I could land it. The reason this is a problem now is with higher dps and the returns from a slow being landed becoming more important, resists are more likely to have a negative impact on the group.

If we cannot semi-reliably land slow then the group is disadvantage because it has to be able to survive against unslowed mobs. I think a more reliable slow is tremendously important for remaining one of the slowing classes, or we shjould be balanced at the high end of the game without it.

[Dummkopf]

Was in a MPG group yesterday working our way to realms. Never reached it because i pretty much killed the group being the only slower with no debuffer in it. The lightning dudes hit up to 8 times a round and can one round 8k hp ppl, have high resists so i cant land my slow wich in turn was too much for the cleric to heal. One thing i learned is that i will never accept another group without 14k+ tank and debuffer. Its sad but i just cant realliably slow in MPG once i leave the zi area (which includes blind camp).

[Incite]

We don't need an aggro reducer.  Learn to control your aggro.

Not being able to slow at least semi-reliably and the state of our buffs are far more important issues.

[Zurash Kittenclaws]

I would love to see something along the lines of a jolt type spell to fill in one of our 'missing' spell slots. Agro management IS an issue on high end raiding, as well as at other times I'm sure.

Not being able to use any of our poison dots due to agro isn't a case for better agro management, it's a case for a wasted line of spells that cannot be used for fear of dragging agro off the main tank and getting pasted, which is surprisingly easy to do.

Even with no attempt at slowing, no incapacitate or other taunt type spell, if you attack from the time assist is given and start laying on a poison dot or two, watch and see how fast you can get agro. It isn't a tank problem either in a lot of cases with well geared tanks, as I never get agro when just hitting/nuking but soon as I throw in a poison I really have to start watching that HoTT window. :(

[Incite]

[snip stuff]

I don't have a problem with it at all, although I do make the tanks work hard; but if I don't want aggro I don't get it and yes I hit the mobs hard right from the start especially if I am the slower.  Really, it's not difficult.  

The only justification we would have for asking for a Jolt spell would be if they took our defensive disc away in place of it.

[negrismorte]

We don't need an aggro reducer.  Learn to control your aggro.

Not being able to slow at least semi-reliably and the state of our buffs are far more important issues.

The slow and aggro management issues are tied.  If you are main slower and you get a streak of bad resists, assuming you survive, you need some way to reduce aggro.  If you are not the slower, controling your aggro usually means reducing your DPS.  I don't feel the need to gimp my DPS even further using that method of aggro control.

The reset time on protective spirit is too long to use it as a reliable method of waiting for the tank to gain aggro in fast pulling groups.

[Dummkopf]

We don't need an aggro reducer. Learn to control your aggro.

So, tell me how do you control your aggro? Judging from your magelo you cant do more than abour 150 dps yourself anyway and "controlling" your aggro would mean to gimp that even further. The only way we can control our aggro at the moment reliably is to switch off attack and never cast a spell. If i want to use all my potential dps by using all my dps spell lines i will get aggro no matter how good a tank is geared, in fact i am still the first to gain aggro after every tank change although my gear is lagging behind at least one expansion in my current guild and i dont use dots at all.

You might be able to judge our current problem a bit more correctly if you play the same game those ppl play that have the problem at the moment, ie. the highend game. Aggro is an issue and not being able to increase our measly dps is another, both are tied in some places though.