Rough 1st draft of new top 10 (10/15/04)...

[Jkal_Shihar]

Hey Tastian, Anyword on getting group IOS back into the game. Maybe as a lvl 66 spell or something.

[Tastian]

Group IoS is part of a "package" item I want to get onto the list that is basically beastlord utilty or buffing.  I'd like to see a group IoS that breaks the stat cap and hp buff at 67 changed to a group version along with a few other tweaks.  It's one of the 3 or 4 items that's being tossed around atm and I'm trying to see how to fit certain things in.  I've sent along a couple other things and the epic 1.5 spot might get freed up which would be nice, but we'll have to wait and see.

[Shadowpaw]

I really don't like this top ten. It seems to be geared toward pandering to the time+ players, which compose a minority of the community. I don't think this serves the interests of beastlords at large.

[Ekss]

I'm not a Time+ player at all: I'm pre-Elemental, in a family guild who raids twice a week.
I like the top ten, and feel it addresses several things I would like fixing.
It also addresses things I haven't experienced yet since I'm not in the end-game; but that's fine, because it's meant to cover all beastlords.

Frankly, I just don't see any big problems with lower level beastlords apart from what's in that list already.

If you have better suggestions, you should bring them to the fore so they can be discussed; that's what this forum is for.

[Bengali]

I really don't like this top ten. It seems to be geared toward pandering to the time+ players, which compose a minority of the community. I don't think this serves the interests of beastlords at large.

Just saying you don't like it doesn't help "beastlords at large" either.  Tastian asked for input, so why not provide some -- for example, by actually *suggesting* what you think should be on the list in addition to or instead of what's already on there?

[Jzath]

really don't like this top ten. It seems to be geared toward pandering to the time+ players, which compose a minority of the community. I don't think this serves the interests of beastlords at large.

I hit level 47 last night.  I have found a core group in the first time in the 2+ years I have been playing.  My wife's chanter and another couple, cleric and rogue.  The 4 of us have all been playing EQ for at least a year, ie mature folks behind the toons.

Jzath does not feel broke.  There is nothing in the game mechanics/gear/skills that makes me feel like I am not a significant part of the group.  The only time I can't keep aggro off an overtwinked beserker or the rogue, is when my poison dot does not land.  I can tank anything at my level and still the group can progress at a satisfying pace, ie we still see the xp bar moving.

Actually for the first time last night, my wife who pulls in the group sat down to med and the bard decided to pull.  Wife got a bit miffed since that is the first time she felt replaced/unneeded.  There is nothing like the intensity of being the puller in a group and as I personally can attest to, no one can inherently pull as fast and effectively over the long haul as a bard.

I digress...

I plan on getting to level 70 as fast as I reasonably can or at least higher than 65.  I want to see these things addressed.  I don't think I will ever see poTime but several of these issues will affect me despite being geared without raiding.  I see the number 1 helping the non-raider, I see number 2 definitely helping the non-raider, I see number 5 helping the non-raider.

I was going to say number 7, epic 1.5 effect, but now it looks like you need to be a raider to even get it.

[Graace]

I kinda wonder what would happen if we put shamen, mages, and monks on the spot and asked "well what would you like to see them do?"

Considering that we're here, and can't be gotten rid of, if they take a look and actually consider the standpoint of what we're looking at, what kind of role and suggestions would they make.  Other than to stop existing and 'you guys are already overpowered' comments I'm sure we'd see from the uninformed and general haters.  Mainly just to see where others besides ourselves might like to see, outside info and criticism isn't always a bad thing, although all things considered, I think we'd get more beneficial information from shamen than mages and monks--as they seem to hold the most bitterness and hate of any of the classes I've seen on any boards anywhere.

[Tastian]

Yeah fire away man.  There are a couple of issues that I mentioned such as beastlord utility via spells and pet heals that are still working their way onto the list if not this time then next.  Some of the pet issues will be covered in a different post soon.  Reading over the various boards though it's clear that a majority of the problems beastlords have is at the higher end.  I'm not trying to make this an "uber_leet_top_10_list" and I think a lot of the items are actually for more casual people too.  I mean if a 500AA'd 9k unbuffed beastlord is having problems with aggro and slowing and dieing in groups, how is a 4.5k 100AA beastlord going to fair?  Burst dps is a raid issue, but even applies well solo'n or doing named farming.  Sustained dps is becoming more and more of an issue with omens.  What used to be a problem a mid-level GoD is now happening to more beastlords and happening sooner because of the quality of weapons we are seeing out of omens and the attuneable gear.  Also with that gear beastlord utility is falling off.  I had a bazaar geared, never raided a day in their life, cleric click off infusion the other day because they didn't need it hehe.  

Anyway, please throw up suggestions and ideas.  I get PM'd and e-mailed various things and they get worked into the list.  Like I've said before I can't guarantee that anything you say will appear in the top 10 list right away, but I can assure you that it will be read and weighed.

[Shrouded]

Please put DPS before slowing.  DPS is something that we do ALL of the time, slowing is usually just in SOME exp groups.

[Skratchen]

I really agree with Tastian's revised top 10.  The only issue I possibly might have is how Sony seems to not give these top 10 lists the weight and consideration that they deserve.  Particularly this list at this particular time.  I wouldn't want to languish for a whole year in the same state of being nerfed by omission.  Waiting a long period of time to get the ship righted may not inspire me and other players to stick around.  

Ok now onto a possible suggestion or 2 to add to the list.  I was thinking that maybe a way to up both the pet and bst dps, the developers could come out with a self imbue proc for beastlords and a raid version pet proc spell that dropped in raiding environments.  Tune the procs on both versions to add the proper amount of DPS that is lacking.  I'm thinking like ED-ish range but not necessarily exactly that.

Then maybe we can have a burst dps AA that strictly is for our procs and pet procs so that when the AA is activated, perhaps on every swing, both the bst and pet proc for x_amount_of time.  

What do you think?  Well anyway, that's just another idea I've hatched since my last post  :P

[negrismorte]

Ok now onto a possible suggestion or 2 to add to the list.  I was thinking that maybe a way to up both the pet and bst dps, the developers could come out with a self imbue proc for beastlords and a raid version pet proc spell that dropped in raiding environments.  Tune the procs on both versions to add the proper amount of DPS that is lacking.  I'm thinking like ED-ish range but not necessarily exactly that.

Then maybe we can have a burst dps AA that strictly is for our procs and pet procs so that when the AA is activated, perhaps on every swing, both the bst and pet proc for x_amount_of time.  

What do you think?  Well anyway, that's just another idea I've hatched since my last post  :P

Not bad as long as they come with a reasonable de-aggro component.

[Ekss]

Please put DPS before slowing.  DPS is something that we do ALL of the time, slowing is usually just in SOME exp groups.

As far as I'm aware, the order of the list is unimportant (i.e. SOE will not take number 1 to be more important than number 2 or number 10).

Perhaps Tastian can confirm that (or deny it of course).

[SilvermaeneRZ]

Dont put dps well above slowing.. My ability to slow and Dps is one of the reasons I do get groups.  I dont get groups in riftseekers very often.. and the reason why is because my slows will bounce 4 to 5 times before sticking, all the while pounding the crap out of the warrior before it finally turns to make a barb grease stain of me all over all that pretty shiny crystal stuff.

    This pertains to non raiders because from what im seeing this is going to be a primary source of level 70 spells for non raiders. We are going to need to be able to play the role of a slower.  Im sorry that shamans and chanters feel threatened by our slowing ability.  Im sorry that monks dont want to share loots.  I sorry mages hate the fact that we have decent pets..  BUT its too bad... I hate the fact that we (all the people playing the game not the toons they choose to play) have to sit around for hours on end picking our bums for some magical configuration of people form up to do a mundane xp grind.  
   
     Versatility of classes make this game playable.  IMO we need to be able to continue our role of a dps utility.  We should be able to do GOOD dps while, maintaining our ability to slow mobs effectively.  We should also have effective buffs in order to keep our groups healthy so that we can fill in when a shaman isnt available.  Back when EQ first came out, the Prima Guide called Shamans the Swiss Army Knife of EQ.  Well that's how I feel the BST class has shaped up.  I like that role.  I like that im a true hybrid.  I cross many lines.  I'm not the master of any but im functional.  

I think the top 10 list is good.  I think it applies to all beastlords not at the high end of the game, but at the high levels of the game.  I am not Time flagged.  I've only dabbled in ikkinz.  I cringe when im asked to slow in KT or Riftseekers ( what few times thats actually occured).  If I have to live with single person buffing everyone when a shaman isnt present; well I guess I can deal with it, but please make what im buffing worthwhile for those instances that im called to use them.

[Tastian]

I've said before that I've been told the order of the list in unimportant.  I tried to put things on the list so that they kind of follow some progression.  Slowing is a problem for all beastlords regardless of gear and what used to get us many groups.  DPS is another beastlord issue, but at the higher end of the spectrum, well talking about dps I move onto burst dps.  Despite the dps issues we still have aggro issues, etc.  Somethings might get jumbled around depending on how the final list shapes up just so that I can introduce certain issues once and first and then simply refer back to them further down the list.  Like in the burst dps issue where I can refer back to some of the sustained dps issues.  *shrugs*  I'll see and please keep the feedback coming.

[Hrann]

I like the list.  If it seems a little more heavily weighted towards the higher end, that is because we have more issues at that point.

I just want to add my support for the addition of a package item that includes SA along with other buffs.

Also, I think the dps issue is more than just for the PoTime+ people.  Even bazaar geared groups 66+, many classes get significant upgrades through spells, abilities and AAs which beastlords don't get, or at least to a much lesser extent.