First draft of our new Top 10 list (6-20-05)

[Solase]

What it sounds to me is that these people want Anguish gear when Anguish is the end zone. They aren't happy with PoTime/GoD quality gear when PoTime/GoD aren't the hotspots anymore. As it stands now, casual and non-hardcore players have a TON of really really nice gear that they can choose from 1 groupable encounters and events. Things i would have dreamed to have back during PoP but i guess its just not good enough anymore. 

What I am saying is that in order to keep people coming back, especially us that don't have the time to devote to a raid guild, high end items or at least an 'Equate' look a like item should be available to those of us who are not in raiding guilds.  Those who are in raid guilds can still show off the warez as it takes them only say 6 months or so to get a really good set of gear compared to those who group and/or solo taking say a year.  Making content unobtainable shuts EQ's market out of these area of players.  If you haven't noticed by now, EQ's customer base has fallen dramatically while WoW continues to climb.  Why?  Is it because they have better raid content?  NO!  It's because they don't shut out those of us who don't spend half the week playing their MMO. by attempting to make a raid elitism environment, the game starts to lose it's lustor for those of us who are not in a high end raiding guild.

Oh, and yes, LDoN for it's day helped to resolve some of this and DoN has also helped to resolve some of this.  However, most none raid type players only have a DPoC and believe me, that gets old quick when you know the only way to upgrade is to be able to raid.

[Dreead]

There is a 1 groupable item in RSS that skartz has in her inventory, Sphere of Swriling Flame or something. And there is a DoN buyable pet focus.

And stop brining up WoW and EQ playerbase for our beastlord top10 list, if you want to talk about a different game do it in the correct forum. We are posting about issues with EQ, not WoW.

[Bananea]

It's because they don't shut out those of us who don't spend half the week playing their MMO. by attempting to make a raid elitism environment, the game starts to lose it's lustor for those of us who are not in a high end raiding guild.

Most people have realized that Everquest is a lot like real life, you get what you put in. Working your way to the top takes time, social interaction, and community building. Everquest wouldn't be where it is right now if it was like WoW where you start at the top (for the most part).

I don't know of many WoW communities but I could list probably 12 off the top of my head from EQ. The EQ team has implemented so many things in the past few years to CATER to the lower levels, it's really changed the game.

I think things like Lucy and parsing have really helped to ruin the game though. Knowing all the loot out there, so you can min/max and dream about loot you might not ever see. What ever happened to the times when you'd go to a zone you've been in 10 times before, and get a drop, and go "Wow when did this start dropping". That's why people want Anguish loot, they look at Lucy everyday and wet their pants from the Plane of Valor and hope beyond hope that someday they can solo their way to Anguish and beat down Hanvarr.

If you can't work towards your dreams in Everquest, because of real life, perhaps you should re-evaluate your dreams and shoot for something more in your range. Making a Magelo wish list with Anguish and Tacvi loot will only ruin your GAMING experience.

[Shieara]

Umm..so this is not on the topic of pet focuses.  I have the one from RSS and honestly I don't care when/if I get a better one.  I just am fairly happy with my class right now and I think at my level (elementals) we are in good shape.

I will go ahead and concede the point about feral swipe.  You may be totally right that it is easier to get it fixed if it is right there then sticking it in a broken aa section.  I'd like to see Perfection of Spirit up there too though, because I feel like the cost versus benefit of it is pretty terrible. 

[Jkal_Shihar]

even though you need lvl 70, cant remember how much it cost at good camp for DoN but here ya go

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=82246

and it doesnt take a raid, just alot of grouping and getting radiant crystals. I'm working towards 70 so I can equip it.

[Rarrum]

Another near-lost ability is Flash of Light. for cc.

This is mainly due to a combination of terrible resists in a couple places, and how most zones nowadays are populated.  Resists in a couple places (primarily mpg/rs and txevu tash) are one of the main motivations for the new slow, which again seems like a short-sighted hack, as it does nothing for incapacitate/FoL/damage spells, which have just as much of a problem there.

The other thing preventing the use of this spell in most places now, is that it'd nearly be suicide due to how crowded most places are.  Back in a place like Maiden's Eye, there was a nice clearing where it was safe to use it, for example.  At lower levels many mobs weren't social.

If you pull back a bit when clearing to a MPG trial for example, flash of light "can" work for cc here.  The problem, again, is that it gets resisted an absurd amount.

As it stands right now, the effect of this spell as usually more harmful than helpful.

Rather than repopulate a large number of zones, it'd be easier to alter the spell to tame the effect a little.  Adding a snare of some sort for example, would prevent them from running away insanely fast (odd how fast and accurate they run when they're not supposed to be able to see....) and agroing everything.  Then, if the area had at least a little bit of space to move around in, it might still be reasonable to use.

If nothing is going to be done about resists on all our spells in general... then also some sort of resist mod would help this.

[Baracca]

Hello all, old beast here deciding to come back for a while .

Ferocity Line - Used to have a Stamina Regen effect  ----- Add a minor Endurance regen
                           Level 60 -  +25 sta, +100 atk, +50 resist all for 450 mana
                           Level 65 -  +40 sta, +150 atk, +65 resist all for 600 mana
                           Level 70 -  +52 sta, +187 atk, +65 resist all for 750 mana  (why no resist upgrade?)

                           Level 70 - Dump the +52 Stamina all together (easiest stat to max with gear) -
                                           - add a % bonus to damage output  or + certain amount to some benificial melee skill
                                           - minor endurance regen (to make up for the portion of the spell this line used to have)
                                           - minor resist upgrade say 72ish (something to keep in line with scaling)

Spell Casting Reinforcement Mastery
                           All for it.
                           Also upper level versions of the Spiritual line -SD-SA need duration increase to be on par with out other
                           utility buffs.


AAs Cost/Benifit
                             Seems they need to do a lot of tweaking to this, many of the AAs we have =  minimal returns.
                              Perfection - (needs to be what it was before it went live) -since its a class defining AA
                             Feral Swipe-has potential - needs tweaking...
                             Need an AA that makes Double attack become innate heh...
                             (and a triple attack for 2hb)
                             Reflexive Mastery & Defensive Instincts need to be a little more in line with what they upgrade........
                             
                              Would like to see an upgrade to Hobbble AA , maybe 3 levels of it with 5% each level added to the
                              snare proc                         
                             Scaling in general needs to be looked at for Omens AAs.

Spells
                             Group version of Focus of Alladnu - with same Hps + Half the Stats of Infusion of Spirit & possibly a
                             % damage mod   (No real need for a Group IOS and this would keep us in line with shaman part)
                           
                             Slow - allready being looked into
                           
                             Group Haste - call it Roar of the wildblood or something- or just give us Talisman of Alacrity or
                             signifigantly increase  the duration of the single target Celerity and give it a new name.
                       
                             Pet Heals - one Pet Heal over Time would be in line with our shammy counterparts "Pet Only".

                             Incapacitate - Due for an upgrade to this one I'd say.

                             Frenzy - our only Agility buff.....Due for an upgrade
                     
                             Spiritual Ascendance - needs to be 11 hp/mana - scaling as the rest of the line has & duration increase

This is just a few things off the top of my head. I'm sure I'll think of/remember more as i get back into the swing of things.

Baracca Smilodon
The Rathe
~Kids Today have the Attention-Span of High-Speed Lint~

                             

[Tastian]

"                              - add a % bonus to damage output  or + certain amount to some benificial melee skill
                                           - minor endurance regen (to make up for the portion of the spell this line used to have)
                                           - minor resist upgrade say 72ish (something to keep in line with scaling)
"

One of the problems we run into is that the game is big and somethings are just at ceilings in sony's eyes at this point.  The + % damage bonus is ok, but it's on a lot of other effects including our growl of xxx from DoN.  I think we need to keep stackability in mind.  If fero gets a straight + damage mod it will have a lot of situations where it's a much smaller return or no return verse what it shows.

They've said that melee system was balanced around no end regen/buffs and although that might change they also said that they didn't want melee being dependant upon another buff to reach their potential(a big part of the reason all the stuff we need seems even more out of wack).

They didn't want to make the spell break the resist cap and in a lot of cases +7 to all resists is going to do just about as much as the +12 sta currently does. 

[Iskandar]

For #4, "AA Cost/Benefit:"  Personally, I think the base cost/benefit ratio of Perfection should be reevaluated if Sony doesn't intend to improve the hp/mana regen of the line.

Paragon  -- 6 AA -- 1200 hp/480 mana
Perf lvl 1 -- 5 AA -- 1332 hp/540 mana (132 hp/60 mana gain over Paragon)
Perf lvl 2 -- 5 AA -- 1462 hp/600 mana (262 hp/120 mana gain over Paragon; 130 hp/60 mana over Perf 1)
Perf lvl 3 -- 5 AA -- 1602 hp/660 mana (402 hp/180 mana gain over Paragon; 270 hp/120 mana over Perf 1; 140 hp/60 mana over Perf 2)

The key question we need to ask is:  Is 402 hp and 180 mana worth 15 AA?

Frankly, I wish I could get a refund of the 5 AA I blew on Perfection 1, as 132 hp and 60 mana are NOT worth 5 AA in my book -- 60 mana isn't even enough to cast Acumen! :cry:  If they do not intend to improve the hp/mana regen of Paragon, I believe they should lower the 5/5/5 cost to something more reflective of the low gain-per-level, perhaps a 1/2/3 or a 1/1/1 or a 2/2/2 cost tree... 3-6 AA total seems more in line with the improvement of Perfection over Paragon than 15 AA, imho. One third of the power of Paragon should not cost three times the price of Paragon.


For the Pet Focus:  Solase, I'm curious, what content are you being denied with Minion of Eternity? You do know that beyond MoE, the gain from each tier of pet focus isn't nearly as noticeable as the gain from unfocused to focused (even if just with the LDoN aug)... Minion of Discord and Servant of Chaos, for example, seem to have zero difference between them for our warders. The scaling of pet focii is... disappointing. But before the "haves" and the "have nots" get all caught up in arms against each other, perhaps we should focus our efforts on making the focii worth upgrading, and then worry about how difficult that upgrade would be to get. :-D

[Sklak]

1)   DPS
2)  Ferocity of Irionu
3)  Spell Casting Reinforcement Mastery
4)  AA cost/benefit
5)  Gear options
6)  Feral swipe
7)  Dots
That's 7 and there are lots of options for the final few spots.  SA, pet focus, group buffs (focus, etc), have all been brought up. 

I would prioritize these slightly differently, but don't substantially disagree.

1.  Definitely DPS, though this question obviously also heavily tied into gear options.  Been very well discussed before, but basically either need beastlords to get much higher double attack to make existing items scale properly, or else need to fundamentally modify current drops available for beastlords starting with GoD and every expansion thereafter.  Easiest fix would be increase in double attack for beastlords/bards, 2nd easiest fix imo would be adding to loot tables progressive beastlord (or beastlord/bard) only proc augs to fit into our existing model of using procs for biggest dps upgrade (e.g. 600 damage, -200 resist mod, with say 30-50% proc rate increase modifier, and perhaps -hate modifier as a GoD level drop, with progressively better augs in Omens/DoN). 

Related AA's:  In line with adding new fairly commonly available high end beastlord-only proc-augments, could be beastlord-only AA for further upgrade to weapon affinity.  Also, if they were to add a selection of these high-end dps proc augments to help beastlords, would also be nice to have an AA ability to hot-swap weapon augments similar to bandolier interface ...

2.  Ferocity Ironu fine for #2, what a waste of a 70 rune (I turned down glowing runes for about 2 months rather than get this spell, until found out about new slow...).  Either decrease mana to be just 50 more than ferocity, or give us something worthwhile for the extra mana over ferocity -- e.g. have stamina break stamina cap and resists all go up to +80.

3.  SCRM would be very handy, could have MGB SA last a full 72 minutes then ;)

4.  Group Buffs.  For beastlords wanting to adventure in single groups, we're often brought in as only slower/haster in group.  Rather than spending a painful amount of time refreshing single target buffs, should have several group versions.  Should give at very least as a 67 or 68 rune 50% group haste of ~30 minutes (and also give Shaman thier group 60% haste spell they missing at 67-68).  Also either FO7 or a group version of our Focus should be available as 69 rune.

Of course as alternative with class definition, I wouldn't mind skipping #3 and #4 and make us instead desirable again as a dps class (double attack of ~50%, which I believe would bring us back to par with warriors, only a little behind rangers and monks, and still way behind high end bezerkers and rogues).

5.  Dots.  (though ties into DPS question)

6.  Pet focus scaling.  Availability is fine now, especially with DoN purchasable version now.  But would be nice to see some significant improvement between levels (i.e., pet summoned with 68/70 spell I think should get +1 additional level for each step increase in level of pet focus up to maximum+5 levels, and at least 10-15% dps upgrade for each level to come even close to mirroring the improved weapon drops available at each tier).

7. AA cost/benefit -- I'd also recommend having every AA that is not already pet-only apply to both beastlord and pet.  (examples:  Run3, weapon affinity, improved crits, natural durability, ID/LR, etc...)  Pet only AA's should then stack further on top of these.  Helps a bit with division of power problem and a tiny bit with dps problem, plus pet running at same innate speed as owner should have been done long ago.

8. Perfection.  Put it back to the way it was tested on (before the last second stealth nerf before going live) at very least.

9.  Feral swipe & Roar of Thunder.  Our 2 most recent beastlord-unique dps upgrades that together add up to slightly more than chain pressing the kick button... 
Ok, roar has great utility, but WAY to long of refresh (should be 4-5 minutes, not 15, and even tripling the availability would be trivial impact on bringing beastlord dps anywhere close to back in line).  Or give us a tiered AA to reduce reuse time similar to hastened mending (25/50/75% reuse reduction for 3/4/5 AA or so).

Feral swipe is just... broken. 


10.  SA -- 3 options to fix this:
1)  Bump up to 11/11 to be parallel to prior upgrades, which would be in-line with the current mana cost increase over SD.
2)  If Sony still feels strongly about limiting mana regen, fine, instead make this a useful upgrade on hitpoint regen side by sticking with 10 mana but double hitpoint regen to 20 (which also turns this into a buff melees might not click off anymore.)
3)  If refuse to upgrade SA via either #1 or #2, fine, at least fix the mana cost.  This spell is 11% improvement over SD.  Fix the mana cost to reflect this 11% improvement.  (vs. current 22% mana cost increase vs. SD, which appears to be set as though the spell does 11/11 regen)

[Tastian]

"I would prioritize these slightly differently, but don't substantially disagree."

Like I said in the very first post the order means nothing.  Some good ideas so far and I'll probably put a new version up in the next couple of days.  There is an update on the 1st of july, so we'll see what we can get done by then.

[Peteums]

A great Way to make ferocity of Irouni Worth it to make it a group BUFF, that would make it well worth it, and kill 2 birds with 1 stone(it will increase our DPS and increase our desirability)

[Oiingo]

A great Way to make ferocity of Irouni Worth it to make it a group BUFF, that would make it well worth it, and kill 2 birds with 1 stone(it will increase our DPS and increase our desirability)

If anything, please don't make it a group buff.  it'll land on a caster or more if we did this, and that defeats the basic purpose, unless you view it strictly as a resist modifer.  If this is the case, add a spell and dot shield component and drop the attack.

Otehrwise, I'd rather see more melee focus and keep it single focus.

[Jkal_Shihar]

Nothin' wrong making it a group buff. Just like SV, caster dont want, they'll just click it off anyways.

[Tastian]

Group buff could work, but it's definitely not enough.  The boosts are just too small and in many cases the sta/resists aren't doing anything at all.  The very small boost to atk power just doesn't justify the rune/spell/etc.  There are definitely a lot of reasonable changes that could be made to the spell and I hope we hear something on this soon.