Healing

[Morganti]

ranger parent = druid = better direct healing than shaman

thats all i have to say on that

i would trade group IoS for a better heal
Stoicism would be cool with me...with out the snare effect though

heh

[VenerableMT]

Gah!  We should get the same heals as rangers, sooo not fair, we've been on par with them up until this point heal wise why change it now!?  What.. what's that damn cleric just ganked my hps using div arb!  Inc Paragon of Spirit... now what was I talking about?   :roll:

[Bengali]

Scorpion Venom = 1132 total damage unfocused over 42 secs, or 26.95 dps.

Tureptan Blood = 1256 total damage unfocused over 42 secs, or 29.90 dps.

Thing is, they stack.  Just having the new dot more than doubles the DoT dps you can do with just Scorpion Venom alone.  It's a much bigger upgrade than some are saying.

Throw in a DoT focus and crit affliction, and the damage gets even better.

I realize the downside of dots (not good in short fights, aggro, etc.) and so on, so no need to rehash them.  I'm only saying that the new ranger-style heal doesn't stack with Chloroblast (you can't really cast both of them, since the recast is the same, etc.) so all it means is that if you had a new heal you could heal an extra 87 points than you would be able to if you didn't have it, but with the dot and the way that they stack you can potentially do an extra 1k+ of damage than you otherwise would be able to do.

It's a pretty easy choice for me.  But like I said, Tureptan Spirit serves little to no purpose whatsoever, so I'll trade that for an 87 hp heal upgrade. :P

[Tastian]

Sure it was a typo but Sylvan light is 525hps, CB is 428, so that's 97hps and that's 97hps BASE.   Max healing AAs and it's much larger on average.  Heck just that 97 more base crit'd is an extra 194hps on one heal.  That's a decent difference.  DoTs stack, but you very rarely can stack them.  Most can't sustain the mana, the aggro or the fights just don't last long enough.  I use dot when I can and it's nice, but I mainly use it solo'n.  If I'm slowing in a group I'm not dot'n unless I'm MT'n and if I'm MT'n and grouped odds are good that mobs are dropping before it'd run it's course.  

The new nuke is great I don't think many would argue that.

Group infusion still hurts my brain.  What hurts it even more is where it drops.  The chance that it might have been used by some bst went right out the window with it being turn-in.  By that point you really just aren't hardly using infusion much (if at all).  Also you'll be taking a spell from someone else that is likely much better.  

Group infusion didn't make much sense in beta, it makes less with where it drops.  Rangers getting a noticeable boost in healing over us seemed wrong in beta, it got buffed up after GoD went live and GoD dps was a bit more than I had expected in spots.  I really did and do still enjoy healing, but there are several times now where I've found myself opting to cast sha's hoping to pull aggro off the caster instead of trying to drop CB, pray for a crit and possibly still have the caster die out from under heal.  *shrugs* The game progresses and if this is how it's meant to be I'll deal.  I just needed to see if other bst were kinda feeling the same way.

[Vorph]

I wouldn't trade the DoT for anything

The dot is really only useful for soloing.  I suppose it's ok, but it's barely an upgrade over scorp venom.

IMO, it's definitely worth loading both DoTs when you have focus, bard, and crit AAs.  I keep them both up all the time in PoTime and Ikkinz raids, and I rarely die from overaggroing.  There's really nothing I could possibly do these days to steal aggro from my guild's two best geared warriors as long as I wait til 90% or so to start.

[The damage works out to 150 initial plus 200 a tick (Burning Poison + Muse hits the 50% cap), over 8 ticks (Focus of Mediocrity) with a ~9% boost from crit AA-- for a total of 1994 dmg (average of 43.8 dps).  Add in the ~37.9 dps from Scorpion Venom, and that's some pretty respectable damage.]

[Choppin]

You use dots during trash clearing ? It takes max 2 ticks to kill a trash mob, where does the dot get effective ? You throw them on named ? Hello aggro (2 dots + ED procs + shinai procs + nukes = I get aggro for sure).

I have some aggro problems alone from ED.


Oh and due to the mentioned SHM connection, I hereby request torpor.  :lol:

[Vorph]

Ah, no... I go afk or just send bear and nuke during trash clearing. ^^

As far as aggro goes, between DoTs, nukes, melee, ED, and Xeg fist procs, I guess I'm probably just barely behind our best warriors on the hatelist.  I never actually steal aggro from them, but if the MT dies I get splattered immediately in GoD trials/raids. In Time it hasn't been a problem at all except on VZ (and the few that resist poison entirely).

At any rate, Turepta Blood is far better than any heal we get (or will ever get).  I wish I could say the same about Tureptan Spirit... :/

[Argach]

At any rate, Turepta Blood is far better than any heal we get (or will ever get).

That's a pretty big oversimplification. I almost never use any dots on raids or groups but I always keep my heal up, and I have for example kept a monk alive through Inny with group's healer dying near the start. I'm pretty sure monk dps > 1 dot dps, and while there isn't always a monk for me to save, cblast definitely has a lot of situational uses all the way to Time. Past Time, on Ikkinz raids, the damage just gets so high cblast can't really cope that well any more, true, but I still use it between pulls to patch any riposte damage I have taken. And in non-raid situations I heal a lot more than that, I'm often the "main-healer" in small groups with my friends.

Dunno what your warrior use but I managed to get aggro with nukes on last Saryrn and they do far less aggro than the poison dots.

Anyways, my point is there are a lot of different styles of playing, so you can't dismiss heals useless for the class. Only thing I really agree the group IoS is crappy at the point you can get it ... I still do some groups outside the guild with my old friends, and I could use it in those, but the other classes get way better spells/tomes so I see no point in rolling on them.

[Tastian]

"At any rate, Turepta Blood is far better than any heal we get (or will ever get)."

I'm sorry vorph, but I think you are making one of the big mistakes when it comes to posting.  You are generalizing YOUR experiences to everyone here.  I'm glad your tank holds aggro that well, but I've seen ED procs alone pull aggro, I've seen ED + nukes, I've seen slow + ED proc I've seen bunch of other stuff pull aggro.  I'm glad you always have a bard in your group too.  I see a bard in my group ~10% of the time...Maybe.  *IF* you simply will not get aggro, *IF* you can sustain the mana to keep both dots going, if if blah blah you get my point.  The dot isn't "useless" but it's definetly far less useful to many than it appears to be to you.  

That said I still wasn't saying "hey we should get healing over dot" or healing over group infusion or whatever.  I was just curious if other bst were finding issues with healing between it takes forever to even downtime heal or being questionable about trying to save a caster with, etc.  Seems like some others are feeling the sameway.  *shrugs*

[Bengali]

Sure it was a typo but Sylvan light is 525hps, CB is 428, so that's 97hps and that's 97hps BASE.   Max healing AAs and it's much larger on average.  Heck just that 97 more base crit'd is an extra 194hps on one heal.  That's a decent difference.

I didn't consider crits or focus effects for the DoTs either.  I was trying to keep it simple.  If we include focus, crits, etc. for one, we should for the other in any event.  :P

DoTs stack, but you very rarely can stack them.  Most can't sustain the mana, the aggro or the fights just don't last long enough.  I use dot when I can and it's nice, but I mainly use it solo'n.  If I'm slowing in a group I'm not dot'n unless I'm MT'n and if I'm MT'n and grouped odds are good that mobs are dropping before it'd run it's course.

Some may "very rarely" stack dots (I'm not one of those people), but by the same token there are beastlords who "very rarely" use Chloroblast (Dummkopf said he doesn't use his on raids, and I rarely do, really).  Still, I plainly acknowledge the downsides of dots and why you can't always use them (mana, aggro, time), but there are upsides too, like total damage, recast (you don't have to wait 30 seconds to try to land another dot if it gets resisted the first time), and no partial resists (if a dot lands, it will do at least its normal damage per tick...I've landed a 675-point nuke for <50 points before).

My only point was that I think it would be shortsighted to TRADE the dot for a 525 point heal.  Especially when there's a better spell to trade, and especially when classes with 1k+ heals are complaining that their heals aren't enough.  If you'e going to convince me to give up an extra 1.2k points (extra because it stacks) of base damage capability, you're gonna need to offer me more than an extra 97 base hps healing.

My post was just an answer to a) the suggestion that it would be worthwhile to give up the dot to get a similar heal to what rangers get and b) the suggestion that Turepta blood is only a slight dot upgrade because it only does a little more per tick.  It is a huge upgrade because it stacks, and IF you have time for one dot (which isn't always) THEN you often have time for two.

[Tastian]

"I didn't consider crits or focus effects for the DoTs either. I was trying to keep it simple. If we include focus, crits, etc. for one, we should for the other in any event."

I agree, but here's the list of AA that effects dots...Critical affliction lol.  30AA ~9% boost.  Meanwhile just 12 AA for healing adept will be a 10% boost to that hehe.  I didn't want to get into a big numbers debate, but wanted to point out that 97hps base easily becomes much more.  

hehe I've "crit" frost spear for 6, I think that was my best ever hehe.  By the same token nukes can hit partial, if a dot get's resisted you lose all damage and get no return on your 360ish mana investment.  

"My only point was that I think it would be shortsighted to TRADE the dot for a 525 point heal."

I agree hehe.  I never mentioned trading and simply wanted to see if other bst were having similar healing issues.  I know a few posts kinda got off track though.  Group infusion I'm sure is the obvious spell most would agree with if it were a matter of "trade".  The nuke is awesome and I've yet to see anyone really say much negative about it and the dot does have it's uses (more for some, less for others hehe).

"If you'e going to convince me to give up an extra 1.2k points (extra because it stacks)"

I do think this is a flaw in your arguement though.  Mem'n the spell doesn't give you "extra" damage.  Unless it's mana/time free it's not just extra.  Before you got the spell were you sitting at FM all the time?  What the new dot gives you is a possible boost to damage per minute(s) short term and possibly better return on efficency, but it's not an "extra" 1.2k damage.  That mana could/would be used for another nuke, for different dot, not available.  I personally can't sustain both poison dots forever and still fero 4 people/do other stuff.  Again you'll get into what your situation is isn't and more general, but the new dot really shines in ~1-5 minute fights where aggro isn't an issue.  In those cases it's a nice boost to damage no doubt.  In solo'n and stuff I simply can't run both.  In that case I gain the difference between the two hehe.  

I'm sure you know what I'm saying and this almost feels like I'm agrueing with you when really I'm not.  I understand what points you were trying to make clear and of course recognize things are different for different people.

[Vorph]

I guess I did lose track of the original post in there somewhere.

Yes, I would happily trade Tureptan Spirit for an equivalent to the new ranger heal. :)  I'd prefer a grp Kragg, but a heal would still be better than what it is now.

[Dummkopf]

I guess it depends how you play your bst. For example i never heal on raids, i dont even mem the spell. I do however always have 2 nukes and scorpion venom up (still miss the god dot) and use them, as well as slow during p1-2 (thereafter i demem the slow). I do however use calliav all the time and heal my pet if needed, since i got pet affinity the amount of pet healing has gone down considerably though.

Btw, during raids i have no aggro problem with ed and dot/nuke/nuke, in xp groups i cant dot at all and have to be careful about when i begin to slow. Mana is never an issue during raids except if you get hit constantly by heavy mana dots, on all other mobs i stay above 80 mana all the time (doing fero and nuking/doting as much as i can).

Its really about playstile in the end, different players use different ones and that is the great thing about the beastlord class that we actually can use different playstiles.

And yes, pls remove the group ios, that is a very bad joke.

[Bengali]

"If you'e going to convince me to give up an extra 1.2k points (extra because it stacks)"

I do think this is a flaw in your arguement though.  Mem'n the spell doesn't give you "extra" damage.  Unless it's mana/time free it's not just extra.  Before you got the spell were you sitting at FM all the time?  

Main Entry: 1ex·tra
Pronunciation: 'ek-str&
Function: adjective
Etymology: probably short for extraordinary
1 a : more than is due, usual, or necessary : ADDITIONAL

When I used "extra" I meant it as "more than is ... usual," where usual is the damage I had back when I only used Scorp Venom.  I meant it as "additional".  Not "free" or "unlimited."

If I go back and replace the word extra with "additional", can we stop? :P

What the new dot gives you is a possible boost to damage per minute(s) short term

I think if you read my posts in context you'll see that is nearly exactly what I'm saying.  But again I apologize for using a possibly confusing word.

Rhaynne suggested that a heal boost from 428 base to 525 base (22.7% increase) was worth more than a short term DoT DPS boost from 26.95 DPS base to 56.85 DPS base (a 111% boost).  I just personally think that would be a bad tradeoff to make.  I'm not saying everyone always uses dots.  I'm not saying I have never healed anyone.  I'm not saying I don't want a bigger heal.  I'm not saying I can dot forever without running out of mana.  I'm not saying I always have time to put two dots on a mob to full duration.  I'm not saying it's more efficient than nuking.  I'm not saying that I don't have to watch my aggro.  I'm not saying anything other than I wouldn't make that trade.

[Tastian]

Sorry man maybe it is just the word.  If I say I get ice shard so I now do an EXTRA or ADDITONAL 15 dps that's just wrong imo.  If you spent mana on scrop venom before and now use ture blood you get ~134 EXTRA damage.  If you used scorp venom before and had mana to throw in say frost spear + ice shard then using scorp venom + ture blood over scorp + two nukes gives you an EXTRA whatever damage and EXTRA efficency.  Getting ture blood is ONLY an EXTRA 1.2k damage if after getting the spell you add it in and don't give up anything else.  I personally have to either give up a nuke, another dot, or simply can't fit it in at all.  There are times it's an EXTRA 1.2k damage, like I said over certain fights or certain situations, but overall it simply isn't.  In some cases it's zero gain, in some it's marginal.  

"When I used "extra" I meant it as "more than is ... usual," where usual is the damage I had back when I only used Scorp Venom."

This isn't a viable situation for this discuss because if you only used scorpion venom before and no nukes then you don't mystically have enough mana to use both dots.  If you did use scorp + two nukes and now throw in two dots then EXTRA is the difference.   Like I said if it's a boss mob fight or something where you are just mana dumping for ~1-5 minutes and run both dots + cycle nukes, yes it's a very nice boost to dps.  In solo situations, long term group, etc where it simply isn't adding that though.  *shrugs*  I like ya and you've had some good posts I'm not even argueing really I guess it is just how it's phrased *shrugs*.  

By having ture blood as well as scorpion venom one is able to do an extra/additonal ~29dps over the course of certain fights or gain minor effiency in other situations.

*edit*  lol just in case it isn't clear I also wouldn't trade the dot for new heal hehe.  Group infusion I'd trade for anything/everything from heal to kragg to grow to whatever really.  Again though that was really an off topic thing that kinda happened.  I simply wanted to know if other bst were experiencing healing issues or feeling a bit down about their healing with how GoD was going hehe.  That got answered and this kinda kept going because I'm way too moody latly hehe.