So how do you all like the expansion? Any bug's / concerns other then what I think I've been told? or anything you want to see possibly changed for the better? let me know here!
I would like testcopy fixed so we can get some parsing done 8-)
Apart from that love the aa's would like BE to overwrite Wulvrine and for Wulvrine ot last longer for shrink reasons but they are pretty small. Spells.. well I already posted that nothing has really changed there.
Just the time on our group haste probly, got some questions regarding that i`ll bring up in the spell section.
Other than that, great expansion, altho im still at a loss as to what Clairvoyance on items does....
KICK Ass we are a good bit mroe DPS i thinks i am pushing out a good bit rmoe DPS tanking then i sued to so i enjoy it Also Love the new armor's as i am not in a Top end Raiding guild ay mroe my tailring at 300 still gies me the shot to Brake number one on server witch i can Pordly say i just did today /pets self on back
Quote from: Sithasoule on November 28, 2007, 02:51:32 AM
altho im still at a loss as to what Clairvoyance on items does....
Let's imagine that you have two items that equate to 10 Clairvoyance.
If you cast a 100 mana spell, it will only cost 90 mana. 200 mana spell = 190 mana cost, etc etc.
I'd like to see the group haste broken out into a separate spell. I can even live with the short duration so long as I don't have to spam people with it when to buff my pet in raids. 99% of the time I do not want the recourse at all! Or as a second choice, how about another copy of the pet haste spell without the recourse.
Otherwise, pet peeve of claiming some of our spells are quest-based, when in fact it's still a faction grind. The quests are really TBS-like missions and need to be done many times to get the result. Real quest-based spell rewards would work more like LoY, DoD or PoR.
SoF so far has been awesome expansion (apart from spells), anyhow I also think that wurine would need to be overwritten by BA. Pet haste is another pita, specially grouping, mind you, could be nice if you have no chanter or shaman around, but timer is that small that I don't even bother to check if it wears off.. At least it does not overwrite chanter or shaman haste heh.
20min pet haste recourse since it cannot be affected by buff extension focus.
Less lag in Loping plains and Hills of Shade
More adult mammoth spawns for exalted augment pattern book quest
However 2 of those dont pertain to beastlords.
I've really enjoyed SoF so far, love the feel of the zones. Like the easy upgrades for the lower level players from Dragonscale and Bloodmoon. I have also posted to both Prathun and Rashere about the duration of Peerless Penchant recourse and asked if they can explain why it has been held at its current inadequate length.
One bug I have noticed is with Bloodmoon 3 (free the slaves) is that unless you're a good race or at least non-iksar you can't free them. Its nothing massive but it is a hindrance if you pick the wrong main looter. Also the system to attune your key for MMM is annoying, would be easier if they made each key linked to a top inventory slot. Again not massive but a hindrance if you don't have someone tell you the easiest way to do it. Whilst I love Pact of the Wurine, I get annoyed with our shamans thinking I am cursed during Astire so having to drop the buff to save confusion and would love BA to overwrite Wurine and vice versa.
SoF has been a great expansion so far. The only complaint I've got is the pet haste recourse. The timer is too short and also it overwrites haste potions. I've had plenty of people yell at me because of that :(
I dislike the group haste recourse. This is my first post so I really needed to say that.
Wouldn't mind the group haste recourse on Peerless being bumped up to 2x or more the duration it currently is. Am liking Pact and Focused Paragon a lot.
I agree with everyone. Peerless was a great thought but the duration makes it not worht using unless we absolutly have to. The mana cost and duration are a joke. Nobody said SoE every gave us love... :-P
/agree with what was said above about pact and peerless. Is there any way to fix at the spell at least? Overall, however, I am very pleased with SoF and what came with it for us, especially in the AA department and pet upgrades.
however, as a consequece, whenever I come home to play Ice, I find that my brother has begun to box me on raids for the sole purpose of being mana battery for his wizard. thanks focused paragon (and other AA) for giving back my utility! (lol)
heh.. i do honestly foresee us being attached to some healers as mana nipples nowadays.
guess I'll have to force hotkey setting for the mana feed tells ;p
So far I'd give the expansion a C for its overall grade. The spells are pretty plain, there are only a few ``must have'' AAs, the zones aren't particularly striking, the raids lack any real creativity (thus far) and the faction is as boring as ever though really a necessity.
It's a good expansion but not a great one. Just average.
I do, however, like the effect they achieved with Hills of Shade. Definitely my favorite zone so far.
aura of divinity blocks growl of the panther, i'm not sure on puma cause i dont have it but growl is alot more denefical than the aura is.
Spell Issue:
Bulwark of Tri`Qaras:
Description: Bestows a protective guard upon your pet, protecting it from the next 6 incoming attacks. When this protection fades, your pet will gain a large increase to attack speed and damage for 30 seconds.
What actually happens:
Spell autocasts Rage of Tri`Qaras upon dropping, which hastes the pet to 85% (i.e. exactly what we have it hasted to anyways), and increases the dmg mod from what we get on Peerless Penchant (9%) to 18%. So, we get an 8.25% gain to melee damage for 30 seconds, which does nothing if you're using the Growl of the Panther line.
Suggestion:
Slot X: Increase attack speed (Hasted v2) by (at least) 15%
--or--
Slot X: Increase attack speed (Hasted v1) by 100%
And:
Slot Y: Increase all skills damage modifier by 25%.
This would give a 35% melee dps increase over our normally hasted pet, and a 22% increase over the normally hasted pet with Growl of the Panther running. For 30 seconds. Unless I totally did the math wrong.
Sounds like it might be worthwhile to offset the 750 mana cost.
Oh yeah, I already dismissed Bulwark of Tri`Qaras as being complete junk in my mind, so I forgot to complain about it. It's right up there with Viscious Ferocity, which I also neglected to complain about.
In no particular order:
Melee, AA's abilities we did rather welll; spellls I'd rank somewhere in the abysmal category, basically a rehash of the lackluster spellls we've gotten for 4 expansions now.
Pact of the Wurine Illusion: Attended a few raids, beastlords got more than a few ooc shouts: where all these @#$%#$@% giant wolves come from, you all forget
to shrink or raids or what! All but myself, eventually clicked off thier illsuions, as its just way to much a PITA to remem shrink, recast shrink 2x, remem normal raid spell set,
that's if you don't get yourself stomped into the groud, while attempting all this during a raid. This is after all the BEST thing we have from this expansion, and as is, pretty much useless on raids, in its current form.
If you're already shrunk, why can't this be made to give you wolf form, in the size you are at b4 you cast? i.e. insta shrunk wolfie
or drasticallly increase the spell timer, to somewhere on the order of most normal spells??
Illusions "and familiars" should show up in same window with as paragon, and auras do, not that we've ever be given an aura, or create a new window for them to go in. This could possibly solve 2 problems, I'm normally buff blocked or very nearly there. This might also give them a way to make LoN illusions, familiars and Pact actually useable by beasts. I have an illusion loot card, and a LoN familiar card, in my LoN account, but as is, might as well sell them.
Bulwark of Tri'Qaras -- broke
Still trying to figure out what the major difference between this and Dragonscale; dragonscale seems to block more hits 8, for 500 mana, as bulwark is 6 for 750
Pet haste recourse -- plenty been said on that already & SOE's answer was "well just recast it when it wears out"; like to see them get away with that on the mage board, or one of the classes they actually listen too.
Ferocity; our class board did manage to get the last upgrade completely deleted to this spelll line, on the last expansion, just as happened to other spells abilities in the past, they said. ok. delete, and gave us absolutely nothing in return, so PLEASE don't run off and just tell them to delete it again, without something useable and wanted by our class, in return!! I'm not in the top 2-3% of the class, I use it and will continue to use it, if only for the increased resists, when I'm 2 boxing, or on raids. as my resists aren't maxed out.. Please don't assume as has happened in the past, that because you don't want or need it, nobody does.
more on Fero -- one post here, shows a quote from the devs that in its current form, there's really not a lot they could do with it without making some coding changes... LOL these guys, especially the person who made that statement is a programmer. Programmers main function to exist is to create/write/modify code. I know I've work with programmers, for much longer than I can to admit to. They should put down the crayons, open up some source code, complle some new code... any new expansion has tons of "new or modified" code. They wouldn't have gotten away with that statement on the mage, or about any other class board.. we just say, oh, guess we'll live with what we got "again". If a programmer made that statement any any of the places I've worked, they'd maybe open the door sometime after they tossed that programmer throught it.
Dots: I use them all the time when I 2box, its more mana effecient. The big argument I keep seeing is that mobs just die to fast for them to be of any use. I manage to get full times when I 2 box, again maybe because I'm not in the top 2-3% of beasts; please consider that 97-98% are not there as welll. not everyone can be in the top fer percentages.
fixed time invis aa or spelll. we got our current invis at level 43, aren't we more than a little overdue here? 3 expansions or so overdue. I emailed the last 2 correspondents
we had, and they just said, it wasn't even on thier list, and was no plans to even bring it up. Group they played with never had a problem invising them.. a rather sad response that was.
cures and resists; when was last time we had anything here?
overall its more than I expected, as my expectations are so low these days, but still lacking; hybirds need spells to.. think that's why we're called hybirds?
If you don't like pact, don't use it. Very simple.
I'm pretty sure we didn't get Fero deleted. Sony doesn't read these forums religiously.
It's been said that we won't get a timed invis. Why, we don't know, but it's logical to me.
Cures and resists are taken care of by other classes. We're a mana-regen utility class with reasonable DPS to add.
And last I checked, I was not any form of a bird, but a Hybrid.
Dunno how Ferocity got deleted, as far as i know we got a new and even more useless version each level cap expansion.
Pact is actually a very nice thing to use and i don't see where the big issue is in reshrinking. Time it right (before engaging the next boss, not during) and it is no issue at all. Even better, there is a bst usable shrink clicky from a dodh mission with a 0.1 or so cast time, that is easy enough to camp at level 80. It would however be great if bestial alignment and pact overwrite each other, but at the moment im happy enough to just click pact off whenever i need to double disc.
As to DoT vs. nukes, well, of course dots are more mana efficient if they run for their full length and damage, our new disease dot actually does 5.9 damage / mana, but that requires it to stick on first cast and run for the whole 72 seconds and do max base damage each tick. If it only runs half its duration and does min base damage its down to only 2.87 damage / mana.
The poison dot has a shorter run time to begin with so the variance isn't all that big if you compare it to an average run time of 6 ticks. However it has no resist modifier whereas the poison nuke has one and isn't that much worse at 3.37 damage/mana, actually same efficiency as our highest ice nuke. All info taken of course from rank one spells, scaling should be the same for all of them.
However mana efficiency is allways down to playstyle, with our new focused paragon every two minutes and normal paragon added to that every 15 minutes we are actually a class with very high mana regen at the moment. Add to that the ability to just sit down for a minute and regen back a third or more of your manapool and mana-efficiency becomes a non-issue.
Resists, dunno if we ever got anything more than what we had from Luclin on, except for Fero of course, and as for cures, well, nothing new since at least PoP except for pet heals, so i wouldn't ever expect them to add anything there.
As for pet haste recourse, well, first time i ever blocked one of my own spells on me and my pet, but normal haste just holds longer even if it has a longer cast time, and potions are even better still so i allways carry quite a few around.
That Bulwark spell is something i tried once and then just forgot about it. The dps difference is not even parseable on normal encounters and the issues are too big to use it at all.
All in all spells are somewhat lackluster and just the usual copy-paste upgrades for the most parts, AAs are actually quite nice and well thought out. Our dps is still pretty nifty, monks just grumble in a dark corner about it while some zerkers actually scream nerf (although more at rogues).
Thanks for the feedback, a few things I wanna add in there, any spell and bug issues, please please please use /bug , and /feedback in game, it helps somewhat (not always but better then nothing!) as I will also be pushing forward some things, Spell changes are like pulling teeth atm with who our spell dev is. I am glad so many of you liked most of the things we got, I will suggest the pact issues , but I am trying to push for BE to just not give a illusion so it does stack with pack of the wurine.
Humlaine - any word on a timeline for Prathun's spell cast-time/recast timer revamp? Has he mentioned if it would affect any of our spells?
If that's a possiblity, here's my suggestions (can provide an extensive list of spell IDs and suggested cast times/recast timers if needed):
*Utility spells: Haste, shrink moved to shorter timer (like 1.5 second), and this trend continued for utility spells that won't unbalance combat situation. If you're feeling generous, it would be wonderful to have our cripple spell have a similar cast time to our slow spells.
*Buffs: Is there any reason buffs take so long to cast? I can see some that can be used as group heals (although mana efficiency would be awful, and can just make them slightly slower than group heal), but that doesn't really affect any of ours. Please lower buff cast times (mainly affecting Spiritual Elightenment line, and Focus of Zott line).
*DoTs: DoTs are combat spells just like our nukes. We're still amazingly thankful that our nukes were put on a 0.5s timer. Please finish the job by putting all of our DoTs post level-65 on a similar cast timer. The same would be wonderful with our short duration pet (Howl at the Moon line) and the Growl of the Puma line.
*Pet runes: All of our pet runes are on a 6 second timer. These are spells that need to be cast in combat, which are mana-heavy. It is often a question in Rampage and AE spell intensive raid fights as to whether or not it's worth keeping our pet alive. The work Rytan did on our pets for this expansion greatly helped skew it towards the positive, but the long cast timers on these spells can make it hard to justify recasting during combat. Or, in some cases (ae stuns), difficult to cast. Please move these to a shorter timer to help promote their in-combat use. A decrease on our generic pet heal line cast timer (Salve of Feldan line) would also be greatly appreciated.
Oh - are there any efforts underway to fix the Lockfang Jaws spell still?
Quote from: sunkash on November 30, 2007, 11:11:15 PM
In no particular order:
Pact of the Wurine Illusion: Attended a few raids, beastlords got more than a few ooc shouts: where all these @#$%#$@% giant wolves come from, you all forget
to shrink or raids or what! All but myself, eventually clicked off thier illsuions, as its just way to much a PITA to remem shrink, recast shrink 2x, remem normal raid spell set,
that's if you don't get yourself stomped into the groud, while attempting all this during a raid. This is after all the BEST thing we have from this expansion, and as is, pretty much useless on raids, in its current form.
If you're already shrunk, why can't this be made to give you wolf form, in the size you are at b4 you cast? i.e. insta shrunk wolfie
or drasticallly increase the spell timer, to somewhere on the order of most normal spells??
Illusions "and familiars" should show up in same window with as paragon, and auras do, not that we've ever be given an aura, or create a new window for them to go in. This could possibly solve 2 problems, I'm normally buff blocked or very nearly there. This might also give them a way to make LoN illusions, familiars and Pact actually useable by beasts. I have an illusion loot card, and a LoN familiar card, in my LoN account, but as is, might as well sell them.
Bulwark of Tri'Qaras -- broke
Still trying to figure out what the major difference between this and Dragonscale; dragonscale seems to block more hits 8, for 500 mana, as bulwark is 6 for 750
fixed time invis aa or spelll. we got our current invis at level 43, aren't we more than a little overdue here? 3 expansions or so overdue. I emailed the last 2 correspondents
we had, and they just said, it wasn't even on thier list, and was no plans to even bring it up. Group they played with never had a problem invising them.. a rather sad response that was.
Ok first, Bulwark, it may block those 6 attacks, but after it drops it has a little damage modifier thats broken attached to it. If it was fixed it would be a nice spell and i would probably use it.
Second, Pact, it rocks, and if your having problems because you have to remem shrink after every cast then why not just keep it up? or cast between mobs?
Invis, we don't need a fixed invis, ours works fine, if you watch for the message saying its about to drop look for a spot nearby without mobs, i find them all the time and have never died from a dropped invis.
read Inphared's post up a few, it basically sums up everything
Quote from: Inphared on November 30, 2007, 11:17:21 PM
We're a mana-regen utility class with reasonable DPS to add.
Where did this come from?
Umm... Paragon + Focused Paragon? Maybe? I'm not 100% sure.
Quote from: Inphared on December 01, 2007, 07:24:59 AM
Umm... Paragon + Focused Paragon? Maybe? I'm not 100% sure.
So this is how you decided to label the class and not something that the devs have said in beta?
Dev's won't enlighten us with their view/vision of the class, and haven't for years.
Quote from: Khauruk on December 01, 2007, 11:54:05 AM
Dev's won't enlighten us with their view/vision of the class, and haven't for years.
Usually correct though during TBS beta Necros where given such information so it isn't totally out of the question.
As an old Necro the last thing I want is to be relegated to a mana battery again (a large part of the reason I retired my necro) so you can see my trepidation when a beastlord from beta (and guilded with the cc) starts describing us as such.
We're not -just- a mana battery. I've posted parses, we don't suck for DPS either. Paragon is coming back into the powerful tool that it once was is what I'm really getting at.
Just got growl of the puma and tried casting it on myself. Seams that empathic fury blocks the spell. Is this right or should it not block the spell?
Quote from: kindarring2 on December 02, 2007, 01:21:04 PM
Just got growl of the puma and tried casting it on myself. Seams that empathic fury blocks the spell. Is this right or should it not block the spell?
The old growl never stacked with Empathic Fury. It would make sense that Puma is the same way.
If I remember right, there was stacking with old growl & BA as well, as in, couldn't cast BA with growl on, but could cast growl after have BA, or backwards mebbe. Not done it in a long while.
If you don't like pact, don't use it. Very simple.
PACT is the best thing we got and for raid purposes is effectively unuseable in it current form. If it not to much to ask that is be fixed, and not get a Smart !@#$@ remark back? This is basically why I stopped reading this forum for 18 months, and just recently trying again, buy apparently there's no real point. We get what we get, you alll seem to just enjoy getting the short end of the stick on every release, so good luck to ya! You seem to enjoy slamming others that attempt to make some constructive comments to better class, and just seem to reliish your own uberness, rather sad. I'm hoping some day, you post you don't think something works as it should, and someone tells you " don't use it. Very simple." utter crap for a response.
I'm pretty sure we didn't get Fero deleted. Sony doesn't read these forums religiously.
yes, there was a group Fero on a prior release, its referenced here on many posts. Basically from your requests a former Corr. asked that it be removed becuase nobody wanted. it. Root was something else, devs were thinking to give us. community said. no we want more dps, we dont want that. So root was not given, and we got zero
in exchange for it. its all here in the forums on past disussions. Of couse you have the keys to the kingdom, on this board. so I guess you could have those old posts deleted just to make your point... feel free.. in fact fell free to ingore any posts from anyone that is not yourself, and the few that still play our class will be fewer and fewer every release, until the devs call you us, and ask you what the 2 beastslords that still play want in the next release. me I'll check back in another 18 months. less impressed wth this new leadership that I care to say.
Sunkash I think you can now remove your head from your self righteous arse! Whilst it is a minor annoyance that you have to click PoW to enable BA to work it is a minor thing that hopefully SoE will change. As it stands though its not a high priority item. As for other issues, such as Peerless Penchant, Ferocity etc I am fairly sure Humlaine has been arguiing for these to be looked into; if not then I can tell you I have and many other beasts to try and galvanise our position on these currently being broken.
The two items you mention regarding group fero and root are both mute points. Personally I don't want a root as a beastlord because I don't think it fits in our role. And why ask for a group ferocity when we have been fighting with SoE to get a single target version to be upgraded for the last 1-2 years if not longer? As it stands I don't mem fero and I know many other beastlords that don't because it is a waste of mana and having it take a spell slot effectively reduces our dps. The problem we have is not our class correspondent but an innefectual developer (Prathun) who has routinely ignored PM's and forums suggesting reasonable upgrades or "fixes" to spells. You say that you hope someone tells us not to use something because it is broken....Prathun has said exactly this with regards to some of our spells. It is that ignorance you should be contacting SoE to change rather than coming on to these boards, bashing the majority of people that are genuinely trying to improve the beastlord class.
It is unfortunate that Tastian went AWOL and I am sure many that frequent these boards wish him well and hope he is ok. But anyone that became a CC after him was destined to have very big shoes to fill and I think Hum has done a decent job. I also think that whilst SoF hasn't seen as large growth in our class as TSS it certainly has been one of the better ones thanks to some awesome AA's. Sometimes I do think there are louder voices on this forum but I would like to think we take many peoples opinions about the class as possible....see you in 18 months Sunk, maybe you'll have something useful to add then.
Quote from: sunkash on December 03, 2007, 04:37:50 PM
PACT is the best thing we got and for raid purposes is effectively unuseable in it current form.
Exaggerate much? I agree it should be fixed, but c'mon man...drama will get you nowhere.
yes, there was a group Fero on a prior release, its referenced here on many posts. Basically from your requests a former Corr. asked that it be removed becuase nobody wanted. it.
A - I've been in the last several betas, and reading these boards for a few years. I have never seen a group fero make it into code. The idea was tossed around among the community and found to be lacking - why bother to make a group version when the single isn't worth casting either?
Root was something else, devs were thinking to give us. community said. no we want more dps, we dont want that. So root was not given, and we got zero in exchange for it.
Again, not in the past three years or so.
so I guess you could have those old posts deleted just to make your point... feel free
The only posts I've seen deleted on these boards were related to this last beta. I think it was entirely wrong, dumb, and many other less kind adjectives; but, no moderation like that has occured since I started reading here.
I'll check back in another 18 months.
Hopefully you'll have something worthwhile to contribute, other than rants.
less impressed wth this new leadership that I care to say.
I have issues w/ the "leadership" as well.../shrug. The CC program will never work perfectly to serve everybody's wants/needs/vision. We all have the ability to talk directly with the developers in one way or another - just not quite as much. We also aren't immediately ignored because we're not CCs...just don't be a Battleblade on the EQLive forums, and chances are decent you'll get a response.
I don't even know what to say to that.
lol
Quote from: Khauruk on December 03, 2007, 06:08:41 PM
Quote from: sunkash on December 03, 2007, 04:37:50 PM
yes, there was a group Fero on a prior release, its referenced here on many posts. Basically from your requests a former Corr. asked that it be removed becuase nobody wanted. it.
A - I've been in the last several betas, and reading these boards for a few years. I have never seen a group fero make it into code. The idea was tossed around among the community and found to be lacking - why bother to make a group version when the single isn't worth casting either?
I think he might be a bit confused and is thinking of the group IoS we had for a while. Remember we asked that they replace it as every beastlord that posted was at max stats, they replaced it (cant remember with what) and next expansion level cap and stats went up lol.
I still think a group version of fero would be worth casting if the mana coast stayed as it currently is (not increased) it would raise the dps from the spell from around 15 to around 60 but that was just me.
they replaced it with a bst version of the rng god heal
Yes, that was group IoS, something i still defend as a good decision since it boosted our heals to be on par with rangers. Heals are a sore point at the moment since they are lagging behind every expansion in regards to our HP pools.
Group Fero was something that was extensively discussed on this board but the general concensus was that a group buff with at least three times the single manacost (and most probably only a group version, no single, same as our Focus) wouldn't be worth it. Prathuun stated in at least two different HoC chats that Fero is basicly useless and there is nothing he can do about it as atk is over the softcap anyway for most.
Of course i would enjoy it if Wurine would stack with BA, however at the moment that is really not a big point for me. It is easy enough to click one of and then use the other on the one hand, on the other BA has a pretty long reuse too so that is really not a big issue.
As for our CC, well, i'm pretty sure he tries to do the best for the class, however a CC doesn't really have to say much so it is up to everyone of us to use /feedback, /bug and PM the devs directly.
There was a pet proc root in one of the betas. Darned if I remember which one. I know it happened while Tastian was cc and that pretty much every beastlord I talked to from beta said it sucked. Maybe that is what he is talking about?
I don't ever remember seeing a group fero in beta though.
Some info in regards to one of the new spells:
lvl 80 Howl At The Moon Call Rk.2:
min slash - 87
max slash- 283
max crit - 435
Lvl 75 Bark At The Moon Call Rk.2:
min slash - 92
max slash- 297
max crit - 456
Focused used: Servant of Chaos (Savagesoul Sandals of the Wilds)
If this spell ( Lvl 80) requires better (raid obtained) focus to become an upgrade to lvl 75 spell than dev's reasoning behind it is pathetic.
However, would like to see the parsing due to overall dps comparison (double, triple, quad hits etc might be increased, but it seems to me that it is rather decreased).
Quote from: Shieara on December 03, 2007, 11:32:57 PM
There was a pet proc root in one of the betas. Darned if I remember which one. I know it happened while Tastian was cc and that pretty much every beastlord I talked to from beta said it sucked. Maybe that is what he is talking about?
lol was that the one that the pet proc itself broke root so it never actually worked? I had forgotten about that :roll:
Pretty much in agreement with general opinions on SoF, but I'll post my own:
1. Love the new zones, I find them appealing and creative.
2. New gear: New cultural seems really unbalanced to me. After years of grinding out 30 hp upgrades in raids, I bought a symbol in bazaar that was 165 hp upgrade! My guild just got into TSS (no kills yet) and one of our zerkers is top ac & HP on server cuz he collected 8 exquisite marrows in normal xping. That's wacked. There was talk of "raiding" tier 3 zone trash rather than raid TSS - the guild will benefit more from marrows than raid mob drops.
3. DPS improvements. They look nice, but hard to say without more parsing in relation to other classes, so I have no opinion yet.
4. Improved Warder. Love this! He is a viable offtank on occasion, especially soloing.
5. Focused Paragon. Like this alot. It's potential raid utility (tho we havent actually used it yet). It really rocks in groups and solo. 1680 mana is really noticeable.
6. Pact of Wurine. Love this. Hate having to shrink every 30 min, so I generally only cast it once per raid night. I use it in unshrinked groups & solo. I would LOVE this to keep your shrunk size. I enjoy the illusion as well.
7. AAs. Decent but uninspired overall. I like that there's like 1000 aas to get. The BL-specific ones like Hastened Thunder and Hastened BA and Feral kick on reposte are lame and cookie-cutter.
8. Spells. They blow. Ones I like: new warder, poison nuke, howl, SV, SE, Focus. Ones I don't use: Pet haste(how sad is that), Growl, Dots, ice nuke, pet hit aborber, pet spell blocker, fero, pet slow.
My comments on spells I won't use:
Pet haste - I'm not going to cast something that pisses off my group ffs. 10 minutes? lol, how did this make it to production? Non-BL get a good laugh out of this.
Growl - I use growl for dps boost, the new version is not an improvement
Dots - never use, never will use. they don't stick on raid targets, too slow casting and not mana efficient on group mobs that die in 25 seconds typically. For the love of Toto, please stop giving us these dam dots in place of something useful.
Ice nuke - Not a complaint, but poison nukes dwarf this - on occasion I may use this on burn raid fites. Silver lining is I no longer need an ice focus
Pet "blocker" buffs - I don't use, maybe I should experiment with these...
Fero - old Fero is preferable due to focuses. Actually the 65 level fero gives the best return for my focuses lol. Might use someday. Fero in general is borked.
Pet slow - does anyone actually prefer an unpredictable slow? I have experimented with this quite a bit and hate it.
My priorities of things to fix:
1) Pet haste/group haste mess
2) Pact of Wurine - make it keep you shrunk and I'd use it all the time
3) Growl - bump the dps boost on this
4) Cure spell like rangers. Hey I can dream, can't I...
Quote from: Pindol on December 04, 2007, 12:11:54 AM
Some info in regards to one of the new spells:
lvl 80 Howl At The Moon Call Rk.2:
min slash - 87
max slash- 283
max crit - 435
Lvl 75 Bark At The Moon Call Rk.2:
min slash - 92
max slash- 297
max crit - 456
Focused used: Servant of Chaos (Savagesoul Sandals of the Wilds)
If this spell ( Lvl 80) requires better (raid obtained) focus to become an upgrade to lvl 75 spell than dev's reasoning behind it is pathetic.
However, would like to see the parsing due to overall dps comparison (double, triple, quad hits etc might be increased, but it seems to me that it is rather decreased).
did one or the other proc, how long was the dps parse done for, and what pet focus are you using?
As for the Pact bug, there is nothing wrong with it in current for, why do you say it is unusable and whats wrong with it currently in game that makes it so?
if you dont post facts and details I really cant do a whole lot.
Quote from: Pindol on December 04, 2007, 12:11:54 AM
Some info in regards to one of the new spells:
lvl 80 Howl At The Moon Call Rk.2:
min slash - 87
max slash- 283
max crit - 435
Lvl 75 Bark At The Moon Call Rk.2:
min slash - 92
max slash- 297
max crit - 456
Focused used: Servant of Chaos (Savagesoul Sandals of the Wilds)
If this spell ( Lvl 80) requires better (raid obtained) focus to become an upgrade to lvl 75 spell than dev's reasoning behind it is pathetic.
However, would like to see the parsing due to overall dps comparison (double, triple, quad hits etc might be increased, but it seems to me that it is rather decreased).
I think I saw a post, maybe on the mage forums that said although the max hits where less the dps was higher because of a higher accuracy. Would love to be able to copy to beta to parse these.
Quote from: Humlaine on December 04, 2007, 01:11:59 AM
did one or the other proc, how long was the dps parse done for, and what pet focus are you using?
As for the Pact bug, there is nothing wrong with it in current for, why do you say it is unusable and whats wrong with it currently in game that makes it so?
if you dont post facts and details I really cant do a whole lot.
1. His post says he was using Servant of Chaos pet focus.
2. He also says he would like to see parses done on the two swarm pets for comparison. I would assume from that request that he didn't do a parse but just took some information from a parser.
3. (Wurine) Whilst I agree he worded his post very poorly as the complaints aren't bugs I take it he is referring to the having to shrink every 30mins and it not stacking with BA.
ok then you all need to reword it from its pointless on raids, to its a hassle, because otherwise there is no reason not to use pact, so you have to click it off to use BA, just rework your discing to make it a viable option again for you, thats what I've done. they wont take the illusion away from BA I've already asked, nor will they for pact. As for swarm pets, the howl at the moon is more dps then bark by 50+ dps at least thats what I've parsed them at, and thats not with all the pet aa's atm either
only one person I believe worded it that way.
I'd like to see a regen upgrade instead of one of our redundant pet runes or fero.
Quote (PACT is the best thing we got and for raid purposes is effectively unusable in it current form. If it not to much to ask that is be fixed, and not get a Smart !@#$@ remark back?)
You stated that u did not like to have to cast PACT and then mem shrink then remem raid spells what exactly is your raid spell line up that one spell gem out of 10 now really cant be shrink for a couple seconds before engage is called. Or maybe camp the 68.4 DOD spell mission for the .3 second shrink ring that is inventory clickable or the shrink stick? Now I do believe that the run speed on this ability is not working I have ppl running by me with FOE on and ppl keeping up with me with Run 5 aa.
(Quote) I'm pretty sure we didn't get Fero deleted. Sony doesn't read these forums religiously.
Have no idea about this so I will have to take every ones word for it.
This is the only area where I am lost with some of the other bst post they say it is worthless not worth casting any more. The guild I am in currently farms Deathnell progressing through TBS I am mainly Demi geared with some COA stuff 1 new SOF gear (wrist) all aa's maxed for resist. average raid night my resist are 640, attack around 2700 with out shammy in grp. higher when i get tossed in to those DPS grps. This DPS grp is where i would love grp Fero I keep lvl 75 fero and 80 Fero memed during raid able to keep it on about 6 other chars if i concentrate on it but out of the most usually able to keep it on 4 chars with no prob. I still find Fero very useful have monks rouges zerkers asking for it all the time. Hell even Pally's want it when we encounter undead. Now i know every one says taking that 4 seconds away from us dpsin the mob sucks bla bla well those other ppl have to realize if fero wears off during the fight o well they have to live without since Sony wont give us a grp fero. I am open to correction here if I am way off course on the Fero cause I still see my attack raised and resist with it even will all aa's maxed out on attack and resist.
Where I think bst need to be paid attention to is the Run speed on PACT and Harrow I am not seeing much of a improve over Rake on this I am not asking for 9k crits here something noticeable of a change would be nice and please just delete Lock fang series and give us 5 aa's for wasting our time for even reading what the spell was for.
Quote from: Vangarth JaggedClaw on December 23, 2007, 07:35:24 PM
This is the only area where I am lost with some of the other bst post they say it is worthless not worth casting any more. The guild I am in currently farms Deathnell progressing through TBS I am mainly Demi geared with some COA stuff 1 new SOF gear (wrist) all aa's maxed for resist. average raid night my resist are 640, attack around 2700 with out shammy in grp. higher when i get tossed in to those DPS grps. This DPS grp is where i would love grp Fero I keep lvl 75 fero and 80 Fero memed during raid able to keep it on about 6 other chars if i concentrate on it but out of the most usually able to keep it on 4 chars with no prob. I still find Fero very useful have monks rouges zerkers asking for it all the time. Hell even Pally's want it when we encounter undead. Now i know every one says taking that 4 seconds away from us dpsin the mob sucks bla bla well those other ppl have to realize if fero wears off during the fight o well they have to live without since Sony wont give us a grp fero. I am open to correction here if I am way off course on the Fero cause I still see my attack raised and resist with it even will all aa's maxed out on attack and resist.
So...do you have any parses showing the returns on damage per mana on Ferocity vs. other spells in our line-up? It's not that it doesn't raise your attack, it's that past a certain point (was 2kish for pre-SoF content, nfc for SoF content), you get almost no dps gain from higher attack. You say you're in Deathknell area - I can categorically tell you Ferocity is worthless as a dps booster in that content. The developers have publicly and privately agreed to that effect as well.
From Rashere's comments in beta, it sounded like Fero would still be just as useless as it has been for several expansions. They raised the bar of the "attack softcap" (actually NPC AC values) somewhat, but no drastically like would have been needed.
Attack really slumps off after the 3k point, fero up till 3k attack is about 40+ dps for a bst / bard, beyond that its reduced by alot, almost 3/4's in usefulness
Quote from: Humlaine on December 24, 2007, 04:15:15 AM
Attack really slumps off after the 3k point, fero up till 3k attack is about 40+ dps for a bst / bard, beyond that its reduced by alot, almost 3/4's in usefulness
With what weapons? If it does a 40dps boost for you, it won't do nearly that for me, as your weapons are almost twice the ratio as mine. So...20dps at Anguish level weapons, less even since most anguish raiders now won't have max accuracy. So, let's say 17dps boost?
Random tossed out numbers like that are simply useless without context. What weapons? Was accuracy maxed? Max AAs? SoF target?
its about 40 dps with no AA's, its one of the many parses I did on beta, granted it was with 100% haste, the weapons were various ranging from groupable SoF weapons to the highest being tier 4 raid SoF weapons, the net gain was still near 40 dps if not more in some cases. If you're wanting to be nit picky, if your consistent enough on parses that your dps doesn't vary and have a reliable mob you can parse on for hours on end then by all means please check it yourself. I just won't post random BS and say omg it's the truth, its just not my way. as for accuracy, even preanguish capping your accuracy is something that wasn't to hard speaking with GoD items.
When gearing yourself you need to judge all the positives and negatives. Accuracy is relative to % hit rate yes, but in terms of true Dps it won't affect the attack numbers. If you want to ask the dev's in the next IRC chat please do, I am sure most will be more then willing to answer this easy question.
*edit* - I have testing this on live VS various raid encounters.
Quote from: Humlaine on December 24, 2007, 10:24:08 AM
its about 40 dps with no AA's, its one of the many parses I did on beta, granted it was with 100% haste, the weapons were various ranging from groupable SoF weapons to the highest being tier 4 raid SoF weapons, the net gain was still near 40 dps if not more in some cases. If you're wanting to be nit picky, if your consistent enough on parses that your dps doesn't vary and have a reliable mob you can parse on for hours on end then by all means please check it yourself. I just won't post random BS and say omg it's the truth, its just not my way. as for accuracy, even preanguish capping your accuracy is something that wasn't to hard speaking with GoD items.
You say with no AA so I'm assuming you used a beta buffed toon, what attk rating were you parsing 40dps at? Every parse I've seen shows a big gain in dps up to ~2200attk but plateaus after that. Remember one of the top monks in TSS (or was it TBS?) beta parsed the DPS gain from fero at just over 11DPS and his attk was nearing 3k if I remember right.
New poster here ,from test server.
Somthing that really surprises me that nobody mentionned is that Bulwark of Tri'Qaras trigger overwrites current pet haste spell because of the damage % mod accroding to http://www.antonius-bayle.org/kumbaja/spells/ when it lands and it only last 30 secs so u need to recast your ( 1 hour + SCR + focus duration) pet haste spell each time after.( that autocasts group haste and all trouble folks are listing here related to it)
I really think they need to find a way to fix that, best idea would be to make the mods stack and just add the difference beteween the 2 mods to stack on top of the regular pet haste spell instead of a bigger % that overwrites it.
rank 1 pearless gives 9 % dmg mod and rank 1 bulwark trigger gives 18 % mod just convert it to the bulwark trigger giving just a 9 % mod in another slot so it stacks.Then can even respect the ranks % this way.Seems fair to me ,unless they really wanted it to overwrite it in wich case the spell is 100 % useless.
Also Lockfang Jaws spell is a 100 % clone of Steeltrap Jaws i cannot seem to find 1 difference beteween the 2.And the difference beteween Promised Recovery and Promised Mending is a joke.
why do we get so many redundant pet "protection" spells anyway? get rid of the most useless one (either tri qaras or the upgrade to spellbreakers) and replace it with something useful...like a regen~
Quote from: Grbage on January 02, 2008, 03:18:20 PM
Quote from: Humlaine on December 24, 2007, 10:24:08 AM
its about 40 dps with no AA's, its one of the many parses I did on beta, granted it was with 100% haste, the weapons were various ranging from groupable SoF weapons to the highest being tier 4 raid SoF weapons, the net gain was still near 40 dps if not more in some cases. If you're wanting to be nit picky, if your consistent enough on parses that your dps doesn't vary and have a reliable mob you can parse on for hours on end then by all means please check it yourself. I just won't post random BS and say omg it's the truth, its just not my way. as for accuracy, even preanguish capping your accuracy is something that wasn't to hard speaking with GoD items.
You say with no AA so I'm assuming you used a beta buffed toon, what attk rating were you parsing 40dps at? Every parse I've seen shows a big gain in dps up to ~2200attk but plateaus after that. Remember one of the top monks in TSS (or was it TBS?) beta parsed the DPS gain from fero at just over 11DPS and his attk was nearing 3k if I remember right.
Humlaine - perhaps I'm just misreading you, but that sounds hard to believe it was ~40dps with all that variance in weapons/etc. But, I'm very glad to see it was a definite gain, and am using it now...will have to do some general parses over a few grind sessions to see just what the gain is for me.
Grbage - I don't like how Humlaine phrases the parsing that he did, but he did some, and I haven't, so I'll go with his numbers. Mob AC jumped since Wycca did those parses, so ATK will have worthwhile value to higher ATK numbers - Whatever the actual dps numbers are for your setup, you'll have to see. But, the "softcap" for SoF content will be much higher than what Wycca was testing against - Humlaine found value up to 3k attack. Sadly, the Test NPC bots on the Test server for parsing aren't configurable with ATK values up to SoF levels. Maddoc I think it was (assistant lead designer) said it was one of his goals for the next beta - the parsebots are really showing their age.
On another note - where are all the Improved Block items this expansion? I know they did the client-side work to combine IB and Imp Parry, but all I've seen is Imp. Parry on items.
Also, SoF pet foci are on what item slot?
Quote from: Khauruk on January 02, 2008, 09:35:39 PM
On another note - where are all the Improved Block items this expansion? I know they did the client-side work to combine IB and Imp Parry, but all I've seen is Imp. Parry on items.
Also, SoF pet foci are on what item slot?
I have an attunable earring required level 75, recommended 80 with Servant of Chaos
Why not give fero a component that gives it something aside from just attack/sta/resists?
Pet rune spells? My pet autoprocs a rune (prismatic skin) Why do we need these other 3?
Pet haste/group haste recourse. I was in a group the other night and they kept howling at me for haste. Usually I keep single cast memmed but figured with the rate of the pulls it was easier to use the haste recourse. Just make the haste recourse effect last longer so it is more effective for us to use.
AAs. Most of them are good though I think some aren't as good as they should be. Pact needs a little tweaking. I haven't gotten anything else at this point since I've been concentrating on leveling but now that I'm 80, I'll be doing aa more.
Quote from: nedoirah on January 03, 2008, 12:09:38 PM
Why not give fero a component that gives it something aside from just attack/sta/resists?
Pet rune spells? My pet autoprocs a rune (prismatic skin) Why do we need these other 3?
Pet haste/group haste recourse. I was in a group the other night and they kept howling at me for haste. Usually I keep single cast memmed but figured with the rate of the pulls it was easier to use the haste recourse. Just make the haste recourse effect last longer so it is more effective for us to use.
AAs. Most of them are good though I think some aren't as good as they should be. Pact needs a little tweaking. I haven't gotten anything else at this point since I've been concentrating on leveling but now that I'm 80, I'll be doing aa more.
the problem with that is , fero itself isn't great ( speaking from the mana cost in terms) and it's true usefulness is in relation to your total attack and mod's, Adding another mod to fero makes it difficult to adjust to so it will stack with everything, and still retain it's value, and with that said dev's won't change it from what fero already is, they will make a new spell line before that
Quote from: Khauruk on January 02, 2008, 09:31:38 PM
Mob AC jumped since Wycca did those parses, so ATK will have worthwhile value to higher ATK numbers
I thought mob ATK was boosted in SoF, but not AC
Quote from: Bumkus on January 03, 2008, 05:40:05 PM
Quote from: Khauruk on January 02, 2008, 09:31:38 PM
Mob AC jumped since Wycca did those parses, so ATK will have worthwhile value to higher ATK numbers
Devs posted they intended to up mob AC since it had been stagnate. But, I've seen post saying it did not go live and seen post saying it did. I'm personally not sure.
I thought mob ATK was boosted in SoF, but not AC
Quote from: Grbage on January 03, 2008, 06:08:38 PM
Quote from: Bumkus on January 03, 2008, 05:40:05 PM
Quote from: Khauruk on January 02, 2008, 09:31:38 PM
Mob AC jumped since Wycca did those parses, so ATK will have worthwhile value to higher ATK numbers
Devs posted they intended to up mob AC since it had been stagnate. But, I've seen post saying it did not go live and seen post saying it did. I'm personally not sure.
I thought mob ATK was boosted in SoF, but not AC
Both were boosted with the Release of SoF, hince why dps as a whole seems worse and our tanking ability is drastically worse with lower AC then it has been in previous expansions
Quote from: Humlaine on January 03, 2008, 01:05:30 PM
Quote from: nedoirah on January 03, 2008, 12:09:38 PM
Why not give fero a component that gives it something aside from just attack/sta/resists?
Pet rune spells? My pet autoprocs a rune (prismatic skin) Why do we need these other 3?
Pet haste/group haste recourse. I was in a group the other night and they kept howling at me for haste. Usually I keep single cast memmed but figured with the rate of the pulls it was easier to use the haste recourse. Just make the haste recourse effect last longer so it is more effective for us to use.
AAs. Most of them are good though I think some aren't as good as they should be. Pact needs a little tweaking. I haven't gotten anything else at this point since I've been concentrating on leveling but now that I'm 80, I'll be doing aa more.
the problem with that is , fero itself isn't great ( speaking from the mana cost in terms) and it's true usefulness is in relation to your total attack and mod's, Adding another mod to fero makes it difficult to adjust to so it will stack with everything, and still retain it's value, and with that said dev's won't change it from what fero already is, they will make a new spell line before that
Thanks for the reply :-D. If that is the case then why not lower the mana cost to make it more worthwhile or increase the duration? (or both)(75% of current mana cost and/or 125% of current duration
for example)
2 way communication with Prathun was non-existent this beta period - player spells were almost entirely cut and paste x% upgrades from previous versions, and were never tuned.
Ferocity received nothing more and nothing less than our previous versions...thankfully, ATK softcap was boosted w/ SoF to make the spell more useful for a few people.
Supposedly, some more spell tuning was going to happen post-beta, but I haven't seen hide nor hair of Prathun on the EQLive forums....maybe he's still on vacation for some reason. Or, he knows the shitstorm that will be thrown his way when he pops his head up :)
prathun's there he just isn't one for communication like nodyin was. Nodyin was a godsend to our class, along with rytan helping with pets we actually made out pretty decently despite having ok at best spells.