Just a little thing that happened today in EQ.
I zone into Paludal on the way back from Grimling and the usually /ooc "So-and-so lfg" is going on...
One player is /oocing "Necro lfg I'm heavily twinked."
Personaly nothing annoys me more than people who have to make a point that they are "twinked" when they are lfg, especially at lower level. I mean realy, these days, who isn't a twinked Alt?
Anyway a few comments are made, nothing to harsh and the Necro gets an invite to bandit camp 1. I say over /ooc "Nothing wrong with twinking. At least at lower levels your corpse looks cool." I go back to my journey and think nothing more of it.
A few minutes later I zone into Shadow haven and who should be standing naked at the zone line to PC, but the same Uber Twinked Necro. I didn't say anything, i just waved to him and ran off laughing to myself.
IMO you learn to play the class a lot quicker if you don't have that twink "cushion" to help you out.
A lot hate it but I think it's nice to see the better droppable items having a recommended level on it :P
People will be people though :?
Personally, I'd like to see more items flagged with a required level rather than a recomended. I cut my teeth playing a game where the best items were not available to use unless you had built a char up to a rather high level.
As far as advertising that you are heavily twinked when soliciting for a group I write that off as someone boasting and nothing more. I wouldn't take someone in my group who does that for I believe it shows a certain lack of maturity.
What the hell is a "heavily-twinked" necro doing advertising for a group anyway?
Twinked, why what is the fun if you have gear setup for a lvl 50 on a lvl 10 toon, you can never learn how to play you class, they end up getting group members kill, <yantis strikes again> sorry...
I'm mean seriously, look at Ghoat =/
I tend to twink my characters out and try to level fast too, but that never seems to work out as I plan =p. But also between session I tend to research the class on message boards and how I can play better.
I have a level 55 Barb BST and started and Iksar BST. My Iksar wears the gear of my Barb, I will not learn the class better from not twinking my Iksar.
QuoteWhat the hell is a "heavily-twinked" necro doing advertising for a group anyway?
Very good point. :)
Quote from: GoretzuVery good point. :)
bah. ya beat me to it. :evil: :twisted: :D
Quote from: sarjentI'm mean seriously, look at Ghoat =/
Pfft, you were the geek that had SSRA weapons before you knew that beastlords could kick.
/grumble
ROFL, Ghoat
QuoteWhat the hell is a "heavily-twinked" necro doing advertising for a group anyway?
Hehe I was thinking the very same thing.. A twinked Necro could level PC and not think twice about it..
QuoteWhat the hell is a "heavily-twinked" necro doing advertising for a group anyway?
And next thing he did was :
/OOC looking for my corpse... anyone seen my corpse ? :wink:
He may have stated his being twinked because that tells the other players that he has something to bring to the group. A twinked out warrior has more AC and HP's than a warrior is lvl appropriate gear and a twinked out necro would have a larger mana pool and more HP's than a non-twinked one.
I guessing that he wasn't boasting when he /ooc'd but rather was saying that he has something more to offer the group than the other people that were /lfg at the time.
That happens on here a lot. When I'm grouping with my twinks that actually need to group if you even mention that you are twinked you tend to get invited into groups a lot faster. There was one group that was turning people away because they were in their newbie quest gear :shock: .
That happens a lot. I got a tell once, asking what gear I had. I said, no thanks, I don't need any gear. They said, we want to know if your gear is good enough to join our group.
/ignore
My alts are twinked to the extent that a LVL 30 main can twink. I do not accept gear that is beyond my main. The rest of my chars farm, and I only have what can be bought in the Bazaar.
It also depends on what he considered being Twinked meant. Hell, at one point I thought having a PSU was being Twinked!
Obviously his idea of being twinked failed to impress the mobs. :lol:
One of these day's I'm going to go LFG with "Beastlord LFG! Very Knowledgeable about the game!!!Worth the Weight of 20 twinks!" and see how far I get. :P
If not just the usual 'Won't kill you' sign works.
And somewhere in the zone is a guy going, "we could use a necro, but I dunno what the boy porn and the hard chocolate shell will bring to the group"
I <3 Ghulam armor. Got me to my 40s or so :P
Quote from: GhoatAnd somewhere in the zone is a guy going, "we could use a necro, but I dunno what the boy porn and the hard chocolate shell will bring to the group"
:lol:
I've noticed that PC seems to attract the LFG upsell more than other zones. If someone made me do it, I think my best bet would be "a_lowbie who has an /assist key LFG!"
Quote from: ChebsisHe may have stated his being twinked because that tells the other players that he has something to bring to the group. A twinked out warrior has more AC and HP's than a warrior is lvl appropriate gear and a twinked out necro would have a larger mana pool and more HP's than a non-twinked one.
I've got to admit that when I write my description in the LFG window, it looks something like this...
Atropine 55 Beastlord - Zone (wherever I happen to be)
NOTES:
LDON or POP - 2632hp 1016ac unbuffed, FT6, EE4(I actually have more ac than that, but I don't know if magelo doesn't count my iksar ac bonus??)
I found that when I started adding my unbuffed hp/ac with the extras like FT6 and EE4, I started to get more tells for groups.
I think saying "heavily twinked" LFG is the wrong way to go about it. If you instead put down some pretty crucial stats that are beneficial to the group, it #1 shows that you know enough about the game to know what is important to people who are looking for well equipped players, and #2 probably at least know the rudimentary basics of /assist MT, no breaking mez, and knowing how to play your class.
I do that when trying for PoV or BoT since groups in those places tend to like high HP/AC tanks.
Quote from: KaspurIt also depends on what he considered being Twinked meant. Hell, at one point I thought having a PSU was being Twinked!
Obviously his idea of being twinked failed to impress the mobs. :lol:
Hey, I got twinked with 2 PSUs at lvl 17....I think it was the last thing my 'main' ever did :D
Trust me, as a necro, if you want to group, you need to use every trick in the book to actually obtain one. Necro's are perceived as far less group-friendly than a beastlord for instance, even though a well-informed player would know different.
But how many low-level characters are that "well-informed"? Especially those whose mains are below level 40-50 or whatever. They are more than likely to be the casual kind of player, don't read message boards at all, and all they hear about necros are from people who they meet in-game. When they think of necro they think uber-soloers who don't lfg simply because they are that good at soloing. There are so many more of these players than most people give credit.
Maybe the guy got tired of waiting 3 hours lfg so he thought he'd try something different /shrug. Sometimes necros need some group lovin' too :lol:
Sorry to ask this question but what does "I <3 Ghulam armor." mean?
Quote from: TimilSorry to ask this question but what does "I <3 Ghulam armor." mean?
<3 tends to mean a heart, so it's 'I love ghulam armor'
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/itemlist.html?searchtext=ghulam (//ghulam)is quest armor from shar vahl(shadeweavers, I think). Good stuff.
Quote from: HetBix
:lol:
I've noticed that PC seems to attract the LFG upsell more than other zones. If someone made me do it, I think my best bet would be "a_lowbie who has an /assist key LFG!"
After trying to level an enchanter in PC, I would take you in a second
OT: KeuvenSeijin -- I noticed your sig was from Princess Mononoke, that was a good movie :P
Quote from: TailzinIMO you learn to play the class a lot quicker if you don't have that twink "cushion" to help you out.
A lot hate it but I think it's nice to see the better droppable items having a recommended level on it :P
People will be people though :?
I agree I have a level 56 beastlord on the Tunare Server who was a major Twink. I am not saying that I did not know how to play because I beleive I am one hell of a beastlord.
I started a beastlord recently on FV server just for a break from Tunare and started with nothing. I just started replacing my patchwork armor with better items at level 30. When you are not twinked and dont have the HP and MANA you got to use every skills that you have available to you so you dont die to a normal dark blue conning mob. I never realized the fun of actually pulling yourself up from your bootstraps to earn everything that you have. It reminded of starting the game for the first time, not knowing anyone or having anything and you all say that it is easy for a newbie to level these days I am sorry I do not see it. The bag, bandages and senseheading makes no differance at all when you are leveling.
But that is my opinion.
Twinking is alright with me, I learned everything about the class before I made the character.. I mean, look how I came out! Im not that bad a person if you dont piss me off. Anyways, twinking is fine with me, as long as you try not to stick out like... like... a box of glazed donuts and you're the only one with sprinkles. I think that's a good way to put it, I think. Well, if the person doesn't always say like "/tell group_leader_01 Why'd you pick that gimp beastlord, look at my gear and compare it to him, you stupid n00b" then that person is alright with me. Like.. if they use being twinked as an advantage for everyone in the group, knowing what you're doing, as well as guiding the group through whatever you're doing.
Erm.. I think I repeated myself like 3 times, sorry if I did, it's kinda late here. :oops:
I hate when people picked twinked people over un-twinked people in groups. It should be based on skill not armor. Some untwinked people have been the best people playing the class. However some of them suck so horribly no amount of twinkage will help them from dying and getting a group.
Quote from: TailzinIMO you learn to play the class a lot quicker if you don't have that twink "cushion" to help you out.
A lot hate it but I think it's nice to see the better droppable items having a recommended level on it :P
People will be people though :?
I'm going to have to agree with this. I spent alot of time building up my shaman when i started playing him. I visited every website that I could and read up everything about him, where I could go, and how to get the best gear for my level. Now, I'm using a friends shaman to PL my twink beastlord up to his current level of 60, but I can tell you that I wouldn't trust my ability to use him effectively in a group. Hell, I got on beta using their betabuffed 65 shaman and I almost died to the first mob that I fought. If it wasn't for the fact that i remembered how to use pet heal it would have been ugly.
Quote from: renlI started a beastlord recently on FV server just for a break from Tunare and started with nothing. I just started replacing my patchwork armor with better items at level 30.
If you want to avoid good equipment, OK. At level 30 you have access to better armour than patchwork. You could make your own by then, and the Quest armours available are much better than patchwork. Hero's shroud, Champions Cape, Bandit Bracers, the list goes on. Check my magelo on Kracke. The only twink item is the Acrylia Tunic, a gift from a Guildie, the rest I bought with money I earned. And he's only level 25.
I agree that not twinking will increase your skill in playing, both solo and in group, but I think AVOIDING even level appropriate armour is a little excessive. At least for me.
With a little time and effort, you can easily make enough money in the bazaar to buy some good armour - I was buying black pantherskin items in my 30's from money off drops etc. Farm some silks, sell them, buy good armour! (Good) weapons tend to be more expensive in my opinon, so there shouldn't be any reason to hold back on armour.
But we are off topic, back to the twinks.....
There is no proven correlation between how good someone is playing their class and how twinked they are.
In fact, I think it's really just some kind of justification on an untwinked persons part that somehow they are superior to a twinked character. Yeah you really learn a lot sitting on your arse medding.
All twinking does is cut down on downtime...OHHH I get it now, while you're medding you're reading eqbeastlord.org and therefore learning more about your class than a twinked person who is actually still killing stuff and who doesn't have time to do that...GOT IT :P
Just because someone is twinked does not mean they still don't take time to maintain their casting skills. Nor does it mean they use less variety of spells in order to get the job done. So exactly how is an untwinked character better at their class?
Now powerlevelling is totally different.
Well, my son, his friend, and I started our Vah Shir a few months ago - my son started a bard, his friend a warrior (he'd played a warrior before but his main is now a 65 monk), and I started a beastlord (my main is a warrior - my son swaps off between his pally and SK mostly).
We started in the pit, with my 65 bst friend buffing us and giving us advice on which drops were for what. After that session (and a good start to our class-specific quests) we were done for the day (the only rule is we only play our characters for xp when we're all together).
Then, I tripped over an opaline helm in my main's bank. Talked with my son's friend, bottom line is for his birthday he got a full set of lambent. Then, a guildie was working on his smithing - bottom line he gave me a full set of mixed gold and platinum chain for the warrior.
Then I helped another bst friend with the last fight of her epic, and she gave my beast (level 11 or so iirc) the tunic that drops from the fight, as well as the bracers. (I don't know about the global community, but on DRo it's tradition to have a young bst there to get the tunic, rather than the person getting the epic).
Then, both my over-60 bst friends started handing down bits and pieces of gear, including a black-bladed ulak and a fist of iron.
And the warrior handed his old Centi LS to his warrior.
And the 65 bst gave my son the troubadour's mace he tripped over somewhere.
Now the Twink Team burns through levels like we were being powerleveled - even without external buffage. My son is able to reliably twist 3 songs most times, and I've even figured out chain casting pets when it really goes south (never could manage that on the mage somehow). Every time we get together (which is once a week if we're lucky) it takes a few kills to remind the warrior he's NOT on his monk and to pull slower (6 mobs at a time is a BIT much) - and we're in our mid-20's.
So, we didn't start out to be super twinks, but somehow we are now.
And, my son's pally's smithing has finally reached the fine plate level, and our warrior has happily ditched his chain for a full set of fine plate.
The bottom line is, we're all having fun, and we're all learning (re-learning) how to play our classes - since we're basically our own group at this point, we don't much mess with other folks (though there was a great afternoon at B1 in PC - about the only time I've done a bandit camp - great fun till the a**holes showed up and were such pains we finally left). My 65 bst friend has a shaman that will be playing with us soon - he's almost got it caught up to us in levels so we can LDoN together - even without any cleric/shammy support (just a breeze if I remember to get one) we've burned through 3 LDoN dungeons with no real problems.
Sorry, now I'm rambling - I don't have an opinion on twinks, I guess, long as they know what they're doing. And since I'm a fairly clueless 50-year-old, I find that some twinking helps me keep toons alive long enough in their lower levels to actually LEARN something - lol which isn't easy at my age. :wink:
I understand being annoyed with the /ooc Twink LFG, but at least the necro was looking for a group. At least give him credit for that. :)
I have nothing against twinking although i started out totally untwinked (and it was fun). Most twinks i group with are twinks from guildies who know a lot about the game and the class they play at the moment. Much more so than most newbies will learn in the first 6 month. Even PLing ist always bad although i dont like it and will never do it. I've met some very good pled twinks (a friend of mine even now pls his bst, the bst is lvl 65/65+ aas), however the danger for new players is much higher to never learn the class they play and thats the main reason i dont like it.
It seems some player need to advertise with stats or equipment to get a group especially in the beginning of a characters lifetime, but as they level and get a reputation they will get groups much easier (or it will be much harder for them).
There seems to be a real line of delineation between those who leveled chars before the PC era, and those who came in after. There is just something irritating about spending 3 weeks getting to level 6, FINALLY getting a piece of Ghulam armour..........
And now, between the changes to the game, and the proliferation of twinks, watching someone get the 6 levels in 2 hours, with better equipment than could be had when you leveled originally.
I don't know if the twinking causes people to be less skilled than not, because it simply takes less skill, and time, to gain levels today. The speed of leveling tails off after the 40's, and the skills needed are pretty much well known. You will gain those skills then, or you won't live to gain the level.
I think the real problem is the "old timers" like me decrying the loss of emphasis on the lower level game that we spent SOOOOO much time on. It has value to us, because of the time and energy spent on it, and we are upset that it now has NO value. I try to justify the time and energy spent there by saying that I am more skilled than the players today, but I don't know if that is really true.
/sigh
Just pat me on the head and say "Sure, Grandpa"
I was twinked when I started out.
Big time for my level.
Rather than embarrass myself I went into solo mode. I soloed everyday and learned what I could and could not do.
How to pet control.
What buffs did I like and what ones would others request.
How well I could tank if I needed to step into that role.
Looking back it was the best thing I could have done considering my start.
Learning a pet class and learning pet control is an art form imo.
I can get aggro on a moments notice and tank mezz with snappy anytime the need arises.
I can also recognize those moments that will need me to do that in the first few seconds of a pull.
Too many people that grouped their whole way do not know how to get the most out of their class.
I can remember being in BoT just recently and having to off tank a nasty level 63 giant with my warder.
I let him pound on me watching for snappy's proc to happen as I neared 30% health. Backed out and popped my drog. Chain healed my pet until I was /oom and then came off my drog at 65% health and we killed the giant.
I knew that the damage done to the mob from dots and nukes was less mana efficient than straight up healing my pet. I knew this because I have been in that situation 200 times before while soloing.
I knew I could regen enough on my mount once I was /oom. Then I would have enough hp's to step in with my protective disc and stay in that fight long enough to squeeze another heal out of my mana pool from standing mana regen for snappy. This if my 65% wasn't going to be enough to get the job done by itself.
Being twinked isn't the issue.
The issue is how you present yourself to others be it through tells or actions.
He was twinked and who knows if he died on a bad pull or a poorly timed cleric fizzle.
I think it boils down to bragging in any form not being acceptable in /shout or /ooc.
It's okay to be twinked. It's the losers that are twinked that are the problem :)
Nox
"I understand being annoyed with the /ooc Twink LFG, but at least the necro was looking for a group. At least give him credit for that."
That could go either way. Most well played Necro's I've seen are rarely LFG. Will they group, sure, mostly because they have to in certain situations (LDoN, and some areas of PoP, etc).
The Necro I group with often (just because we are an incredibly efficient duo) is a badass pimp that usually only groups to help others out or for LDoN.
/agree Nox
Nevertheless, what Nox said about soloing REALLY shows when you group with people that have solo'd most of their lives. They are usually very efficient and not sloppy at all.
Meanwhile, it's been my experience from grouping with others that have grouped their entire 65 levels and then went on to raid for years, that they can be somewhat sloppy and not adept to handle certain situations. Disclaimer being that this is not ALWAYS the case, but it's often enough for me to have noticed.
8)
I have to completely agree here with what the previous two posters have said about soloing.
In order for most classes to solo, you have to be knowledgeable about your classes abilities, spells, strengths and weaknesses. You have to be efficient and on top of your game the whole time you solo. You cannot just sit back and go semi-afk while your group does most of the work.
I learned this while leveling up my bard. I've played a bard for 121 levels (2 separate bards, 1 56 & 1 65) and over 120AA. It's been a while since I played my bard since I started playing my beastlord... but here is my experience:
When I played my first bard... I only got to level 56. I grouped almost his entire career, and I never learned how to solo or kite except for fear kiting. All 56 levels were done in groups.
When I made my second bard, I went to all the websites... eqdiva and the concert hall. I read all about the abilities and strengths of bards. I started really soloing for my first time. At level 46 I began to toy around with the infamous swarm kiting. I died a ton of times... however I realized that while soloing I could twist up to 4 songs... 4 songs!! Previously I had thought the max songs a bard could keep up is 3. Okay so right there I learned an incredibly useful thing about my song timing. Ever since then I've been able to keep up 3 songs constantly even in some pretty bad lag.
Not only that but I learned how to swarm, chant and charm kite. My CC abilities in groups went through the roof just from learning how to solo with my bard. I learned how to deal with 3-4 mobs at a time... how to crowd control all of them. My timing was perfected when I really became adept at swarm kiting. I got so good that I could take 20-30 mobs at a time. I began swarm kiting in the plane of disease. I went from level 53-59 in under a week.
Soloing honed my skills... Made me get the most out of my songs. It made me efficient and able to deal with things a lot of bards simply don't because they never took the time to learn how to solo and deal with crowds of mobs.
The same principle goes for all classes. If you are good enough at playing your class that you can solo, then you will bring a lot to your group...
And guess what? Most of the people who solo are EQ veterans that twink the hell out of their characters.
I have to agree with the soloing part, although i was untwinked at that time (well, nowadays you can call me a twink) i soloed from lvl 1 til lvl 58. Partly because i was tired of grouping with my old main (a 56 Pally), partly because i could solo efficiently. During that time i learned a lot about being a beastlord and how to play a pet-class, naturally i used pet-tanking or pet mez, pet clericing if i had to and when to step out of the tanking role, i learned a lot about my aggro management. After i started grouping (just because it became more efficient than soloing) i never had to wait lfg more than 5-10 minutes after a very short time.
Not all classes can solo that good, its a pain for a rog for example, but if you can solo at least a bit its very good to learn more about your class.