The Beastlords' Den

Needless to say, each person has a different play style, and while usually people can figure these out for themselves, sometimes ya just need help :-)


This guide is listing AA's by type as what is best depending on your desired role, it is NOT telling you the order to do -ALL- AA's, but tells you, if you want to tank, an archtype ability to get would be _______.


Pre-59
Before 59th level there are no AA's you must stop and get... If you are in a raiding guild (who are your level), you are likely not fighting mobs that have AE's in the 4-digits, so jumping into ND is no help.. the -best- way to get AA's is to level, THEN get AA's...


Spell > AA's.. need the spells before you can boost them, getting the next level will give you HP, just like Natural durability... new pet will increase your DPS..


When do you get AA's pre-65?
Here are some -KEY- levels you might consider stoping to AA
Level 51 - If you frequently are in Dungeons/pulling, you might want to get Innate Run 3
Level 60 - If you absolutely must get Paragon this early, here is where you should stop (new pet/slow over 59th level)
Level 62 - New pet, easy places still open, if you are not in a guild and want to AA grind, 62 is a good level to stop at
Level 64 - I've seen a few beastlords, who dont have access to the 65 spell runes, stop at 64th level and go in AA grinding in LDON, and other places such as BoT until they get the 65 spell runes.


Now a general order to do AA's:
General AA's
In general, all beastlords, solo or not--raiding or not raiding.. Gets Innate Run Speed 3 for indoor running... From here they either get Metabolism (vah shir's mainly), or Regneration... The choice for the latter is up to you, regeneration is nice in the long hall, and metabolism only save you money.. These AA's overall are fairly weak, so the choice wont make or break you...

Everyone:
1. Innate Run 1
2. Innate Run 2
3. Innate Run 3

Non-Vah Shir:
4. Innate Regen 1
5. Innate Regen 2
6. Innate Regen 3

Vah Shir
4. Innate Metabolism 1
5. Innate Metabolism 2
6. Innate Metabolism 3


Archetype AA's:
Archtypes are some of the best Passive AA's for any purpose, mainly defensive in the forms of evasion or healing. We beastlords have other damage increasing AA's that are 'better' then those avalible here. Unfortunatly from here we really start to splinter into what type of beastlord you want to be...

1. Tank
2. Raid-guild Oriented
3. Cleric/solo
4. Melee/solo
5. Grouped

Those are the 5 subjects I'll break down archtype into, there are a few other abilities, but they are -not- really worth getting just yet..

Here are the list of archtype abilities in their best order of value:

1. Tanking AA's
Best Progression for Tanks outside a raiding guild:
1. Combat Agility 1 (Or ND1)
2. Combat Agility 2 (or ND2)
3. Combat Agility 3 (or ND3)
--Go to Class AA's if you can--
--Go to the Planes upgrade for Combat Agility here if you can--
--After getting the highly desired Class AA's:
4. Natural Durability 1 (or CA1)
5. Natural Durability 2 (or CA2)
6. Natural Durability 3 (or CA3)
7. Combat Stability 1
8. Combat Stability 2
9. Combat Stability 3
--Go to the Planes upgrade for Combat Stability here if you can

It is general concensus that Combat ability > Combat stability, and that raw HP > 'phantom' HP, That is why I recommend Natural Durability before Stability... between ND and CA it's a hard call, if you are tanking occasionally, CA is better, if you frequently off-tank in groups and such, ND would be the better choice.



2. Raid-guild Oriented
Best Progression for a raiding guild Beastlord:
1. Natural Durability 1
2. Natural Durability 2
3. Natural Durability 3
--Class AA's--
--After you get the key class AA's for a raiding beastlord:
4. Spell Casting Reinforcement 1
5. Spell Casting Reinforcement 2
6. Spell Casting Reinforcement 3
7. Look at the other types of archtypes listed here for a progression that suits you best (Tanking? or clerical for soloing?)



3. Cleric/Solo
For those that like to be on their own, outside a raiding guild, using a more pet-cleric style of soloing
1. Healing Adept 1
2. Healing Adept 2
3. Healing Adept 3
--Class AA's--
--POP AA upgrades--
4. Healing Gift 1
5. Healing Gift 2
6. Healing Gift 3


I personally don't play this route, but if one so desires, I believe this is the progression that people would like...



4. Melee/Solo
For those that like to be on their own, outside a raiding guild
1. Combat Agility 1 (Or Natural Durability 1)
2. Combat Agility 2 (Or Natural Durability 2)
3. Combat Agility 3 (Or Natural Durability 3)
--Class AA's--
4. Healing Adept 1
5. Healing Adept 2
6. Healing Gift 1
7. Healing Gift 2
8. Healing Adept 3
9. Healing Gift 3
10+. Natural Durability 1-3 (Or Combat Stability)

I went this route myself, for the most part, but since I was duo'ing my way around I went with ND2, CA2, then to class AA's. Final choice is yours


5. Grouped
If you are grouped, there is no archtype skills you must have, look at the above listings for what best suits your role in the group... But typically Healing Adept, Combat Agility, or Natural Durability are what people choose




Class AA's
Class AA's are the best :-) Since most ours have no archtype prereq, you can get almost any AA in this field easily.

1. Tank
2. Raid-guild Oriented
3. Cleric/solo
4. Melee/solo
5. Grouped


Regardless of what kind of player you are, Paragon of Spirit is the best 6 AA's you can spend! Solo, grouped, on raid, Paragon of Spirit is -the- AA to get! It does not work on your pet (disadvantage for pet clerics), but you can step in and tank for your pet !

1. Tank
1. Paragon of Spirit
2. Physical Enhancement
3. Pet Discipline
4. Frenzy of Spirit
5. (If you raid at all) Mass Group Buff
--Back to Archtype--


2. Raid-guild Oriented
1. Paragon of Spirit
2. Mass Group BUff
3. Physical Enhancement
4. Pet Discipline
--Suspend minion 1 & 2 if possible--
--The following in the best order for your character:
5a. Ambidexterity
5b. Frenzy of Spirit
5c. Beastial Frenzy
--Archtype AA's--


3. Cleric/Solo
1. Paragon of Spirit
2. Mend Companion
--Get POP Hastened Mending upgrades if you can--
3. Hobble of Spirits
--Archtype AA's--


4. Melee/solo
1. Paragon of Spirit
--Suspend minion 1 & 2 if possible--
--The following in the best order for your character:
2a. Ambidexterity
2b. Frenzy of Spirit
2c. Beastial Frenzy
3. Hobble of Spirit (if you need snare soon after paragon, get this before #2)


5. Grouped
1. Paragon of Spirit
--The following in the best order for your character:
2a. Ambidexterity
2b. Beastial Frenzy
If you raid:
3. Mass Group Buff
4. Pet Discipline
--Back to Archtypes, or fill in class AA's you need--



Hard to Place AA's
These are AA's that ARE USEFUL, but are either situational, or hard to 'place' in a list...

Mental Clarity 1 - 2 AA's for FT1, Not a bad buy.. DON'T get MC2/3, however, until you have AA to spare!
Hobble of Spirit - Great AA, if you need snare.. not the best snare in the world, but if you need snare, you can get it with this AA -- Situational
Spell Casting Reinforcement - Another great AA, only way to make paragon last an additional tick, also lets Ferocity last a good bit longer... Just hard to place in the line-up :-/



This is really just a rough overview, it's hard to say which way to go when you want to include all the possibilities, I just hope this was enough of a help to give you an idea on how to go...


Please post any feedback, it's welcome :-) I'd like to update this if there's strong opinions against what i listed...

Raiding guild AAs:

For what it is worth, this is what we require of beeastlords in terms of AA:

Run 3

Natural Durability 3
Spell Casting Reinforment 3

Mass Group Buff
Paragon of Spirits
Pet Discipline
Physical Enhancement

Bestial Frenzy 5
Planar Power 5
Suspended Minion 2

Granted, we are a high end raiding guild, taken out Quarm a few times so far, and this is our minimum required AAs. MGB Paragon is the single most important thing I can do to swing the tide in our favor on any major encounter.

After this list, I prefer to think of most AAs as offensive, defensive or utility.

I went offense first after the above list, as we are counted upon for DPS in many situations, so Spell Casting Fury 3 and Ambidexterity were important for my play style.

The defensive AAs of Combat Agility 3, Lightning Reflexs 5 have made a major improvement in my ability to survive random aggro. Of course, my guild would argue that it seems to be common instead of ramdom.  :lol:

Of all of my AAs, the one I wish I had gotten earlier is Mend Companion, with Hastened Mending 3. I use this all the time in groups, raids and even solo. I personally put this into the utility category, as it is neither offense or defense by itself.

Under the class AA's for tank, you didn't put down PE, which would be a boost to CA, CS, and ND - something I think most tanking bsts would love to have for the aa spent.

Outside of that, it's a really well thought out table.

At the bottom, you might want to put a small list of aa's people always say they wish they'd gotten sooner. For me, it was /pet hold. I got it after getting alot of other things, and was amazed at how much easier it made my life. Mend companion is another that's nice to have.

Click my sig and look at my AA's I have them most and am in a Raiding Guild. Yes there are some that many would say that are needed that I dont have.

I went this way.

Run3
Regen3
SCR3
Paragon
MGB
--> Full Defensive <--
Suspend Minion 2
--> Most of my Offensive <--

So My current working path is.

Arch
Class
Advanced Planar Power.

Then I will go back to General and Planar and fill them

path I took...

Run3
Regen3
SCR3
Paragon
Suspend Minion 2
Then I started raiding......
Pet Discipline
MGB
Full Offensive
Full Defensive
Now working my regens

Quote from: SempaiRaiding guild AAs:

For what it is worth, this is what we require of beeastlords in terms of AA:

Run 3

Natural Durability 3
Spell Casting Reinforment 3

Mass Group Buff
Paragon of Spirits
Pet Discipline
Physical Enhancement

Bestial Frenzy 5
Planar Power 5
Suspended Minion 2

Granted, we are a high end raiding guild

If you'll notice, if you follow the Raid-guild path from general to archtype and class, the path will hit every ability but Planar Power quickly.. with no 'fodder' abilities between it..

it goes Run3->3 others required for arch->ND3->Paragon->MGB->PE->Pet Discipline->Suspend 1/2->Offensive AA's(Ambi/BF/Frenzy)->SCR3

I think my raid setup covered even your tough requirements fairly well, don't you agree?

Quote from: BheranUnder the class AA's for tank, you didn't put down PE, which would be a boost to CA, CS, and ND - something I think most tanking bsts would love to have for the aa spent.

Cant believe i missed it :-)

Added to the list, thanks :-)



And as a note to people who are posting here, please dont post your path you took, this isnt a survey, it's a guide...

Corrections/suggestions are welcome, but cant do much with a list of "I went with these AA's" -- Esspecially when I dont know if you solo much, raid a lot, pet cleric, group, etc.

I'm trying to make a guide :-) not take a survey, there's another thread already here for what path people took

What my path that you see is the rout of a power raider/Off Tank/Primary Slower/Main Assist on raids, I have to be able to take a royal pounding and stay alive.

Personaly I think that all beastlords with even so so gear with the right AA can make a good off tank and and still dish out the DPS, with that in many situations will save a group from a possible long nasty CR.

I debated whether to post here, as I don't want to disrupt the guide style of the thread, but had to throw my 2 copper in.

I don't think it's a good idea for a true soloer to take any ND AAs before other defensive AAs.  Pure hps do nothing when you are grinding away by yourself, unless you are actually killing things that bring you to 5% each time (and then you should probably switch targets for efficiency sake).  Pure hps are good for AEs and complete heals, but have marginal use compared to damage mitigation and avoidance when it comes to soloing.

I had my reply all set as I was reading down the other posts, but then I got to Hrann's and I basically just have to agree with him.  Natural durability is a seriuosly over-rated AA for a lot of bst.  Raid guild sure, required, sure.  Solo?  No way that's my first arch, that's not even in my first 100 and honestly not first 200 if I were doing it all over again.  Even with PE already purchased getting ND1 took time.  

Yes it's more hps, yes when you run out of hps you die.  No it is not "free" hps because you are giving up other things when you buy ND instead of them.  If I were a pure Melee solo'r I'd take ca/cs/LR/ID/PE/HA/HG/IHA/IHG/SCR etc before I ever got back to ND.  As a solo bst SCR really helped not only in mana savings, but also just convience.  Comes in very handy as a grouping bst too as it's nice to do one big buff session before an LDoN mission then simply refresh haste/fero as needed.  

I'm really not as anti-hps as I come across sometimes and some of my characters have always been crazy hp fiends in most people eyes, but as a solo bst I just can't see ND being that high up the list.  I mean ND3 would give say 200-400hps for a solo bst?  Improved regen 3 is giving you 3 more hps a tick, giving you 30 hps a minute.  In just a 15 minute "grind" session improved regen has given you more hps (long as you were constantly down some life and thus regen'n) than ND3 added.  Unless you are getting one rounded, eating huge AE's, getting complete healed (more hps / more efficency), etc then max hps aren't being a huge factor (if any factor at all).  All of those things though are things a person grinding solo isn't going to encounter.

*shrugs* Like I always say do what works for you and your situation.  That's one of the great things about the AA's is they are flexible and eventually you can get them all anyways.  No one choice locks out something else, you simply slow yourself down in getting other things.  However, from a pure solo point of view I'd easily take 10% more healing, regen 3, FT3, CA/CS, 30% longer buffs, etc etc long before I'd take 300(ish) more hps.

Hmm, Well seeing as I have all the AA's you mentioned and Regen 3 Inate Regen 3 and Body Mind Rejuvination and MC3 with FT10 SCR3 SCF3 and a host of others and I am only at 211 with 1 banked, ND3 PE CA3 CS3 ect.. they are all good and I think even the soloist should get them before the 200 mark.

Soriab -  Not quite sure I understood your post, but mine as always was just an opinion and I'd never want to "push" it onto someone.  However, I looked at your magelo and it shows 212 points spent.  Things I noted and of course this is all speaking from a pure soloist point of view...

Healing adept 2  So of course not IHA
Healing Gift 1  So of course no IHG
No Mend companion So no Hastened mending
No Hobble of spirits
Planear power 4 not 5

Now whether PP 5 even does anything will depend on the bst, heck PP4 might not even do something for some.  Hobble is questionable to some, swore by in certain spots by others.  Mend companion, especially with HM3, is one that everyone I know who has absolutly loves regardless of how they play, but solo it's a free instant sorsha every 9mins.  Healing AA's are a big personal favorite and especially well soloing they make a big difference.  

Again this was just an opinion, but I still stand by what I said about as a pure solo'r I would not do ND in my first 100 and probably not even my first 200 (especially now with GoD AA's on the horizon).

True but I dont pet cleric and I have the DpoC Healing isnt all that important with me. With only regrowth I regen fast. Second off I am normally in Sol Ro or raiding or helping others. Truthfully I dont get much personal game time and when I do I grind. Yes your right I dont have them I am going to get them but I have a path of my own that I have been following.

I plan on Maxing in the following order.

Arch
Class
Planar

That might change depending on the final AA release with GoD I am not sure yet, To be assured though that I will bank 30 AA and then start spending them again. I actually planned on Finishing my Healing and moving to the last of my pet AA's after I get saved what I can carry over.

Well, I agree with Hrann and Tastian. I too am a HP>All skeptic. I realize that DiosT wasn't framing advice strictly in this mode but I still think that the first post was often enthusiastic about taking ND3 early. The perspective I'm looking at this from is a non-raiding perspective. I won't argue the benefits of HP there.

What I will debate however is the usefulness outside of it. If AE encounters are not part of one's EQ routine, then avoiding/mitigating damage has the dual benefit of a) effectively *being* additional hp representing the damage not taken and b) not needing to be cured using up mana and/or time.

The two arguments in favor of trading this off for more hp seem to be:

1. Surviving an encounter -- those who have lower max HP simply don't survive the encounter due to the speed and quantity of damage dealt.
2. The efficiency of complete healing -- Higher max HP in turn increases the efficiency of a complete heal.

So, what its worth, I sincerely believe that someone who does *not* take part in EQ play involving AE damage/PoP raids is better served by other AAs that have a more higher contribution to playstyle.

QuoteHmm, Well seeing as I have all the AA's you mentioned and Regen 3 Inate Regen 3 and Body Mind Rejuvination and MC3 with FT10 SCR3 SCF3 and a host of others and I am only at 211 with 1 banked, ND3 PE CA3 CS3 ect.. they are all good and I think even the soloist should get them before the 200 mark.

I agree with this statement. However I think it misses the point of a post such as this. The issue at hand is the relative priority of what abilities are gained first when there clearly can be a very significant differential between the effectiveness of different, useful, top-200 pts AAs. Let's face it - once you get all archetype, class and PoP ability AAs it's a definite bottom feeding process, if not well before that point. The power curve of AAs declines quite sharply after the 150-200 mark if not much sooner.

My advice for the early selection of AAs is rank them according to how much they will contribute to your success in getting xp: Shorter downtime, greater dps, less damage taken, avoiding death, etc. A couple hundred more hp doesn't seem to rank in the top 30-50 for me as a non-high-end raider.

So, there's my anti HP>ALL rant.  :roll:

I'll tally up another opinion for CA and CS before ND for the soloing BL, or for BLs in general who are not either a) raiding regularly or b) tanking and being healed by a cleric.

Soloing is about efficiency, and extra HP don't increase your efficiency unless you are using a complete heal...or if you find yourself dying frewuently while soling (ie you don't have enough HP to survive the fight) - CR has a tendency to reduce your efficiency!
:)

I think the argument could be made for SCR before CA - even for the solist.  SCR will save you time and mana (not to mention annoyance) becasue of the mana saving and convenience of the extended buff durations.  Whether that savings would be more by going the CA route and taking less damage in combat would certainly be open to debate.

Other than the fact that I would value ND a lot less than Dios' guide would suggest, I would say that Dios is spot on with the rest of his guide: it concise, its clear and it gives great advice to BLs - no matter how they play their character.

Nice job, Dios!

I can see that the core of this guide makes some sense; I especially like the division into "paths".  However, I would disagree with quite a lot of the details.

For instance, metabolism isn't really better than regen for vah shir; it's a convenience option that many take, but only of significant value if you use stat food all the time (and aren't a baker yourself).  ND isn't of much use to a soloer, as has already been covered.  SCR should come a lot higher up the list, as should MC, in my opinion.  The different routes show a different recommended path for offensive AAs (Ambi, FoS, BF) - and no mention of CF or SCF.  I'd also probably put mend companion over HA/HG for most paths.

Next up, I'm not convinced that anyone who comes near these boards ever actually plays as a "pet cleric", certainly at levels where discussing AAs is meaningful.  We maintain a balance of meleeing alongside our warder, backing off at times to cast or heal - or just to transfer damage to our warder.

I can see several paths in our AAs: defensive, offensive, mana saving, and utility.  Each set of AAs can be allocated an order in each path, and we should advance along each path in the correct order, picking between paths depending on what our constraints are at each moment.

These are just my opinions, and I'm likely to be wrong on several of them.

I solo nearly all the time and I have taken on board a lot of what's been said here.

No one has mentioned Finishing Blow at all I put 2 pts in here jus to do my 12 archetype so i could get to the class AA's and paragon. I have found it to be very affected for those irratating times when the mob starts to flee and you have an add to deal with. With one little tap wham 32013 hp damage a little over the top but mightily impressive cetrtainly stops you getting any more hits from the add than is necessary.

just my 2cp

Lonyn

Main problem I have with finishing blow is the level cap.  In certain places it can be nice, but as I recall a lot of stuff I was fighting it simply wouldn't have effected, or atleast not until I put a lot of points into it.

It's really dependent upon how "high end" your 'raiding guild' is.  If they're elemental and have killed more than 1 of the EP bosses (Fennin, Coirnav, Xegony, The Rathe Council), then you probably need ND3, but honestly, until you've got around 5500hp buffed, you won't see enough benefit from ND3 and most guilds don't require it unless you're in an EP raiding guild.  Even at 6750hp buffed, I'm only getting around 450ish from ND3, which is nice, but not more important than SCR3....

BTW, I do note those who have actually killed some EP bosses because I know of EP guilds that have been carried past RZ and couldn't take down Sol Ro, let alone RZ by themselves... not to mention any of the EP bosses.

Also note, Diost wasn't putting those in order of importance, he was simply stating that they require ALL of those, not some first, then you can get others, you need all of those before you can get into his guild.

Some noted MC for soloers and I agree... you regen 12 standing still/fighting/casting with SD up, bumping that up to 15 means you just increased your mana regen by 25%... not half bad.  I have FT15, but I remember what it was like at FT1 (just the solstice earring), every point of mana regen is vital and 3 more points can make the difference between that nuke that stops a runner, that last heal on you or the pet that saves your butt or just a slow that keeps a mob from stomping you into the dirt.  Still... SCR3 > MC3

I did go CA/LR5 before ND3... I love ND3, but just for bragging purposes about current hp on raids.  CA3/ND3 was all the difference for me when playing group/raid slower (BST slow is resisted less often than Shammy slow, so it's not uncommon to see me hit Thall Va Kelun or Aten Ha Ra with a preslow just to keep our shammys alive if they get resisted and summoned to a mob that won't get another attack until the tank hits his AE taunt ability).  I think that there should be a EP/Time raiding guild listing and a pre-elemental raiding guild listing.

I changed the Meleee/Solo path to put Combat Agility up first for archtypes...


As for the raiding path, Most raiding guilds -require- ND3 as a general requirement for all classes... and they typically -require- paragon and such... but SCR3 isn't 'always' required, sometimes guilds look over the AA... I just put the list in that order in case someone wanted to apply to a guild soon, but didn't have the required AA's yet...


Feedback is welcome you all, please keep it coming..

It is general concensus that Combat ability > Combat stability, and that raw HP > 'phantom' HP, That is why I recommend Natural Durability before Stability... between ND and CA it's a hard call, if you are tanking occasionally, CA is better, if you frequently off-tank in groups and such, ND would be the better choice.

Why is that?  For AEs and such, yes; but surely if tanking CS will be more useful due to the "scaling" factor, ie if the mob hits harder you mitigate proportionally more.

Combat Stability, and it's PoP version Innate Defense, are not worthless, but you'd be hard pressed to notice the difference.

It's long been an accepted fact that CA is greater than CS.  The logic on this is basically that dodging a blow(CA) is far better than getting hit and taking a small percent of less damage(CS).  I believe the warriors or pallys did some extensive parsing on this.  If you have CA3, or even better LR5, you'll see it clearly.  I remember trying to slow General Reparm in PoFire one time and getting instant agro.  Two rounds of melee from him, 7 misses, one hit.  If I didn't have LR5 the number of hits would have been much higher and no level of CS would have saved me.  Woulda been one rounded.

I don't entirely agree with the whole ND approach to AAs.  Hitpoints are king after levels.  But Combat Stability and LR5 are some of the best AAs we have.  I'd get CS3 just to get Physical Enhancement, but save Innate Defense for well down the line.

Whereas there is a general consensus that CA > CS, there is no such thing saying ND > CS.

If you check other boards, you'll see that they all agree that CA reduces damage more than CS, based on parses.  That makes CA better value all round.  However, a tank with CA/LR maxed and no CS/ID suffers from massive damage spikes, when tanking typical PoP/GoD mobs, making them very hard to heal.  So for tanking classes, CS is still very important; less so for beastlords, but varying aaccording to your style of play, of course.

ND is of value specifically for AEs and caster mobs.  Personally, I'd place it lower than both CA and CS unless you were raiding, in which case I'd go with the CA > ND > CS theory.  

The relative value of increased HP over reduced hits logically depends on the amount you get hit for; the only case where the relatively small gain of HP from ND would be preferable to CS reduction over a fight would be when fighting old world mobs exclusively - in which case even a beastlords AC would be over the mobs atk value, and I doubt you'd be taking any noticeable damage in old world or Kunark, and very little in Velious.

PE doesn't have any prerequisite, and it appears to have an effect even if you only have level 1 of CA/CS/ND, but only onto the AA you already have level 1 in.  So PE is actually worth getting after CA2, potentially.  I'd probably choose to go CA3, CS1/ND1, PE, LR5, CS3/ND3, then ND3/CS3 - taking CS and ND in your order of preference.  Then ID5 to finish defensive.

It's long been an accepted fact that CA is greater than CS. The logic on this is basically that dodging a blow(CA) is far better than getting hit and taking a small percent of less damage(CS).

Absolutely no question there, IMO anyway, having experienced both when AAing my SK.

Seems to me that CS is more sensible for tanking than ND, although as you say, old world mobs you're not going to notice much difference, but for tanking things where you need an edge CS would give it ... so I suppose my feeling is that CS is more useful than ND tanking wise.

The main reason people say CA > CS is the situation that they are in and the side benefits of the skill.  See even if CA and CS offset the same amount of damage most would take CA for it's other benefits.  Like fewer interupts when casting.  Also like Mahes mentioned the "burst" damage avoidance.  Having AoW wiff is amazing.  Avoiding bashes, etc.  CS helps smoothing out the damage curve if you are getting CH'd and stuff.  For most beastlords the fewer interupts and the chance at more burst mitigation is key.  For a more solo(ish) beastlord CA/CS are definetly amazing and I'd take long before ND like I mentioned.  If you tank LDoNs or planes or solo or whatever I would have all of them before ND.  If you raid and stuffs then the extra hps can help and you may not find yourself tanking much.  In raids and stuff though I find myself offtanking various mobs quite a bit (up to a point where LR50 and ND30 wouldn't save my @$$ lol).

Oops.

Didn't mean to imply ND was better than CA or CS.  Thing I worded it poorly.  I'd defintely get ND and PE before ID5, however.  Such a marginal gain for cost.

In the end, there's not much I'd trade for CA/LR5.  Great AA set.

Where would you place Pet Affinity? Expensive as it gets, but a very powerful AA in the right situations.

I'm dont have all these yet as I am just now starting to AA since I got new pet but heres my breakdown since I am in a raiding guild and when I group I always have a war or Knight to tank unless its a LDoN. FYI guild is just about to be hitting VT atm

Gen: these are pretty mindless 3 of em are a nobrainer imo

Run3--A must have I dont care who you are
Reg 1--play an ikkie so doesnt really matter but might if you dont
Met 2--I only use stat food so the less plat I gotta spend on food the better

Arch: This one has been hard for  me to decide but this is what I came up with

CA3--lets face it its nice and wanna get LR5 ASAP
SCR3--for extended buffs

Class: Depends on what you do mostly another hard one

Paragon--a must have imo even though I dont have it yet can save you and turn tide of OOM clerics
Pet Hold--I hate havin to kill my pet cause of those dang AEs so its second on my list
FoS--this is because I am gonna gear my BL for offense before I round out his def
HM--nothin like a clicky pet heal for when I am oom or need to get one off fast cause I wasnt payin attention to my pet's health
PE--so I can at least have CS2 and ND2

then back to archtype to get CS1 and ND1

PP 2 or 3 at least depends on what gear I have when I get to these
BF5
LR5

would like some feed back on this as it subject to change

I'd generally go for the defensive over offensive, with certain exceptions.  The argument has been run through in many threads here (and probably in this one), but it comes down to you doing zero damage after you die.  We get so much aggro even when not really trying that this is a compelling argument.  I'd go CA3, LR5, CS3, ND3, plus PE relatively early in that sequence (as soon as I had any 2 out of CA1/CS1/ND1).

The exception is to get BF5 ahead of almost everything.

Don't get planar power until you are both capped on important stats AND have the basic archetype AAs.

Use the dps calculator to work out the value of AAs for offense; this will push FoS way down your list, below CF1 and SCF3.  You will also want Ambi relatively early on.

good tips I didnt put it down but I had planned on gettin FoS soon on probably almost before I had gotten BF5 so its good to know atm as well as the PP things I neer planned on maxing it till the gear I was wearing at the time but me over my cap and I would need PP lvls to get the most outta my gear

Just use magelo to check what effect raising stats from PP would have.  You will be better off with direct AAs like ND/PE, I am pretty sure.  That gives you a relative place in sequence for PP - which will be well after BF and CA.

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong (especially the spelling  :-))
But doesn't PE add 2% to CA CS and ND for only 5 points...so even for a soloer/non raider its should be higher up up their lists for the amount of points it takes to get..Once you have CA 1,CS 1,and ND1 these cost 6 points and the next level of them all cost far more but PE only costs 5 point to effectively double all their benefits. Also if I remember right and I read many posts on the subject it was worth getting one point in each of CA CS and ND for PE to be activated for them.

So for me as a member of a small guild/small time raider I got CA 1 followed by CS 1 then ND 1 and then PE Before I went and maxxed out CA/LF followed by other defensive and then offensive aa..Since even in a group I somtimes am little slow to get behind the mob

Could you add some levels with the AA's? please?

I'm currently 57 with 5 AA ( Run3- Regen2) working 20% AA 80% Exp. I group/solo but rarely play the pet cleric - doesn't work with my temperament  :wink: I've been MT on several LDoN's or the Off-tank.

I've noticed the level restriction on many AA's but I'm thinking if it's a good idea to "save up" AA's now and let them "loose" once I get to these levels?

If this is posted the wrong place feel free to move it.

Thank you for a great guide.

Feralkin Kitathia 57 Animist of Quellious Nife & Sidekick Da Tigger

Its good to see you are thinking ahead.  However, I think your not going to be seeing a lot of AA's at your level going 20/80. 

You are only allowed to bank 30 aa total at one time. If you make over that it just disappears (yeah I did it once).   Most people can't hold out for a collection of aa. They will find something of value to spend it on before hand.

If you are interested though in making some aa. I suggest getting yourself to 60 first. Take off the 20/80 and do straight 100% in normal exp. Once you reach 60 and you feel you want to aa grind instead of leveling 2 more levels for your best pet upgrade gap going 100% into AA exp is what you should do.  If I remember correctly, someone posted here several months back stating that doing any % splitting the exp from aa to regular, your losing a % to nothing. Meaning your losing some exp thats not going toward the character. Maybe someone else can explain to you what I am talking about if you don't understand it. If you are going to level, go 100% into it. If you are going to AA grind go 100% into it. 

Thank you:) I'll now be grinding to hit 60 instead of splitting 20/80  :-P

- It just seemed like so many levels have something to aim for:) Meaning new pet/slow/dot.. you name it ........ I guess with the split it just seemed like I was working towards some of all those awesome skills/abilities as well as new spells.

Feralkin Kitathia 57 Animist of Quellious Nife

is lightning reflexes something worth getting?

Short answer

Yes.

 I know this is an old post but...:) Just wanted to add that if you raid ( even on a lower level) spending 12 AA's on Pet Afinity is  GREAT ! All those yummy group/MGB shaman/cleric/chanter/druid/pally/bst buff will hit your pet too. It saves everyone in the raid time and mana, not having to single cast on your pet.

Kit Kat

(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c344/Kitathia/kitathiasiggyfish.jpg)

I was wondering if there was an updated list like this somewhere? I am currently set at 55 grinding out AAs for that ninth spell slot.

QuoteHobble of Spirit - Great AA, if you need snare.. not the best snare in the world, but if you need snare, you can get it with this AA -- Situational
Spell Casting Reinforcement - Another great AA, only way to make paragon last an additional tick, also lets Ferocity last a good bit longer... Just hard to place in the line-up :-/

I not a know it all yet when it come to AA's but I do box a cleric / Raid / solo / group. all depending on what going on at the time.

Hobble of spirit I have on my pet all the time in raids it that big of deal but out of habit it how I have my pet buffed.

in groups I had a few with out some one to snare and I also had player not snare or it ware off. having a proc on my pet that procs often mean I never have to wonder if a mobs going to run.

in soloing it nice when a mob get low on life to see it turn and stand while you finnish it off.  also if you fear kite  snare is very nice in having you pet be able to get a few hit in as the mobs running around.  ( pet taunt off / pull mob / Dot / Dot / Dot / Fear ) it a gimp nerco I know but when grinding and that named pops it means I can kill it rather then having to pull around it.

when boxing it nice to have so mobs don't run. I don't rember how many times I got a mob down to 5% and he ran into a group of friends and I ended up dead.

all in all Snare is worth the point you spend I have 2/4 level atm and love it.

As of SCR

Come on an extra Tick of paragon / Dots / everything  this cuts down on your down time  so if your sum one that love to keep moving I say it a must.

SoD expansion shakes things up somewhat as to priorities. Lots of extensions to existing AA lines, as well as some new ones.

SCRM, for instance, extends paragon durations to 9 ticks, as well as improving other buffs. With item focus, I'm getting SE durations over 2 hours now.

Natural Invis is a clear winner, buy it as soon as you can!

Natural Invis is a nice easy aa to get but we can cast invis so i wouldn't say it is a must!!

Quote from: Codak on December 17, 2008, 08:42:29 AM
Natural Invis is a nice easy aa to get but we can cast invis so i wouldn't say it is a must!!

Aye but it is a no-fail/no-fade invis. What I mean is it is a set duration invis. So yes it should be a priority.

   Natural invis, perfected levi an group shrink are great utility aa's. I love em >.<

   Question: looking back through this thread (albiet info is from '04) are there really any advantages to

   Vah Shir
4. Innate Metabolism 1
5. Innate Metabolism 2
6. Innate Metabolism 3
or innate regen?
   I always viewed these as aa's to max when you were getting into the 2k aa range. Is it just the info is old or is there an advantage to these lines?

Vah Shir eat food pretty fast along w/ all large races.  Convenience now, but at the time, you needed 6 general to start working archetype.

At the time maxed regen AAs was useful w/ how little many mobs hit for.

Quote from: wildwaters on December 17, 2008, 04:31:49 PM
   Natural invis, perfected levi an group shrink are great utility aa's. I love em >.<

   Question: looking back through this thread (albiet info is from '04) are there really any advantages to

   Vah Shir
4. Innate Metabolism 1
5. Innate Metabolism 2
6. Innate Metabolism 3
or innate regen?
   I always viewed these as aa's to max when you were getting into the 2k aa range. Is it just the info is old or is there an advantage to these lines?

I have always considered Innate Regen better than Innate Metabolism even for Vah-Shir, but it was never worth arguing about.

The start of the thread is based on the way things worked before the major reorganization of AA's a while back. Back then, buying 6 General AA's was required before you could buy any Archetype AA's. Of the General AA's available at the time, Run Speed 3 and Innate Regen 3 were generally considered the best of the bunch. Similiarly, buying 12 Archetype AA's was once a prerequisite to buying Class AA's. So beastlords of the day generally planned out their first 24 AA's ( 6 General, 12 Archetype, and 6 for Paragon).

Tru Dat

Quote from: bigdaddyrich on December 30, 2008, 05:36:17 PM
Tru Dat

Impressive first post.

I agree. I've seen plenty of "first posts" in my time, and that one trumps them all.

The attention his first post is getting made me lol for real

Considering the normal activity rate of these forums, this is something to be remarked at.  :-)

   Dude, you changed your avatar! Now I have no reason to visit these forums bro ;/

   >.<

She wasn't interested in you.

Sorry to disappoint.

Can a moderator edit the first post and update it with data that is essentail to a person playing a beastlord in 2009? 

Hello fellow BST,

i having a hard time decideing the Right OVERRAL AA path to take.

here is what i come up with:


Suggestion

Run3
Regen3

metab3

paragon

SCR

SCRM

SCF
MGB

--> Most of my Offensive <--


--> Full Defensive <--

PET HOLD

ADV PET HOLD

SUSPENDED MINION

PET AFFINITY

PERSIST MINION

MEND COMPANION

WARDER ALCRITY

WARDER FURY

CF

ND

PE

PD

AMBID

SLIPPERY ATTACK

DBL RIPSITE

ENHANCE AGGRESSION

WA

PLANAR POWER

HOBBLE

FRENZY

bst FRENZY

FERAL SWIPE

HA

HG

DISCORD DEFENSE

SCF

FURY OF MAGIC

DELAY DEATH

CRIT AFFLICTION

BITE OF THE ASP

GORLLIA SMASH

---> lvl to 80 <---

HAST NMEND

REPLIS COMPANION

COMPAN AGILITY

COMPAION ALCRITY

COMPAION BLESSING

COMPAION DURABILITY

COMPANION FURY
--> REMANDER OF CLASS aa <---

LVL TO 85

REMANDER OF AA's NOT USED


* insert the neccessary  AA's where they need to go and HIGHLET FOR ME*

THANKS IN ADVANCE  :mrgreen:

I have started new characters recently and have found that the only requirements for the archetype and class aa are the levels and the aa prerequisites. 6 general aa are no longer required for unlocking the archetype and 12 archetype no longer required for class.

Quote from: ramelorm on February 07, 2009, 12:08:40 PM
Hello fellow BST,

i having a hard time decideing the Right OVERRAL AA path to take.

THANKS IN ADVANCE  :mrgreen:

I started editing and relized, I didn't wanna spend the time at 2 am.

*** NOTE: there is no correct path to take ***  But here are my suggestions.

Run 3 (Run 5 is also nice, saves a buff slot)
Offensive AA's (Double Attack, Crit, Ambidextuary)
--- Double Attack (max)
--- Combat Fury 6
Pet Hold
Mnemonic Retention 1
Defensive AA's
--- CS 18
--- CA 18
--- Natural Durability 3
--- Physical Enhancement 1
***Break up CS and CA to grab ND 3 and PE***
Pact of the Wulrine
Invisibility
Sinister Strikes
Feral Swipe
Hobble 2

Once those core AA's are done, you have many choices...
You'll notice I didn't recomend many pet AA's.  Thats because he becomes less and less DPS as we level so I've kept the focus of my DPS on myself.

AA paths you can choose: Focus on pet, continue to focus on yourself, or grab utility.

***Focus on pet***
Pet Focus (The other rank of this AA is useless)
Pet Flurry
Pet Crit
Pet Avoidance
These are what I would put my focus into and in that order

***Focus on yourself***
Weapon Affinity
Bite of the Asp OR Raven's Claw
(Forgot Name: Other Agro Reducer, can't think of its name atm)
Spell Crits
Healing Adept
Healing Gift
Increase Spell Crit Damage
These are what I would put my focus into and in that order

***Grab Utility***
SCM
SCMR
Mnemonic Retention 2
Paragon of Spirits
Focused Paragon
Suspend Minion 1&2
Persistant Minion
(Forgot Name: Makes pet able to receive MGB's)
Other than SCM & SCMR, I would grab these in the order that you feel you need the most at that time.

I left out many AA's, probally fogot some AA's, and generally have a play style thats different than most.  I personally focused on myself adding utility as the need arose.  Shrouding allowed me to put off Persistant Minion for a long time, as did finding people willing to individually buff my pet as two examples of why I put off some utility AA's.  But more and more people sit in GL /afk while they get buffed and its very nice to come back and ready to rock.  With the list I have above, that should be close to 1500 AA's if you work on most of the AA's to max 'em out.

I've always been a solo player, so I planned out my AA's to maximize tanking... CA8, CS3, ND1, etc.

Then I maxed out Weapon Affinity for LT procs, couple of the healing AA's.

Now that mercs are available and I can get a pocket healer, I've found that my DPS was sorely lacking, so working on those. Feral Swipe 2, Bestial Frenzy now at 9, probably Ambi soon, then throw a few into the spell and melee crits that I've been neglecting.

Along the way I've picked up Persistent Minion, Mnemonic Retention, Run 3, SCR3, Hobble.

As noted above, many of the points prerequisites are gone, so ya'll can make a beeline to useful AA's much faster now.

Quote(Forgot Name: Makes pet able to receive MGB's)

Pet Affinity, allows pet to gain group spells...

So of late I have been taking a break from my Beastie to level up a Bard.  As I played the Bard I follow some specific guides for AA's, a tactic I did not use for my Beastlord.  Now I am looking back at playing her again and wondering if I got all the AA's I should have, since at the time, I just bought the ones that sounded cool  8-)

She currently has something over 4100 AA's so I probably got all the good stuff, but you never know.  Does anyone have a current AA guide?

You can use my charts or the eqaasearch.org site crystilla made recently to check basic information.

Thank you Nedoirah.  What I was looking for is other people's opinions about which AA's to take.

For example, for my Bard, I used this guide as a starting place for which AA's to buy first:

http://jadedragon.dkpsystem.com/viewthread.php?threadid=281&p=1#p874 (http://jadedragon.dkpsystem.com/viewthread.php?threadid=281&p=1#p874)

I have since added some things of my own based upon my play style, but it was a good place to start, and gave me an idea of what the MUST HAVE AA's are.

Every time someone asks me the question in general, I pretty much have to say something like, "I got AA's as each expansion released them so I never had to deal with prioritizing all of them at once." Which is literally true in my case. I remember when maxing out at 300 AA's was considered impressive.

That said, this thread is worth skimming through at least. It's old advice, and a few things have changed, but the concepts remain valid...in particular that your playstyle determines some of your priorities. There are other threads in this section worth looking at, such as http://beastlords.org/index.php?topic=8701.0 (http://beastlords.org/index.php?topic=8701.0).

If you're looking for something that's less than years old, you aren't going to find it all in one spot. Info on the last few expansions is likely only going to be in threads that discuss that expansion.

One can hope for an easy answer  :lol:

I created my BST when Luclin came out, so I have played the class a long time, but I also believe I can always learn something new.  I was looking to see if I may have missed something since I purchased my AA's by what sounded like it fit my play style best, but you never know what ability I may have skipped because the description of what it does is not well written.

Thank you all!

My basic formula is as follows:

1. max out as much defensive and hp increasing aa per level as possible
2. melee crits and finishing blow and stat caps
3. spell crits and duration and maybe DoT (if that's your thing)
4. Paragon (both types)
5. pet stuff (at least a couple things like crits/defensive and definitely discipline/affinity/suspend minion)
6. agro reduction utility
7. nat. invis, play possum and lev aa when they become available

I followed the same general order (minus the pet/paragon/agro reduction stuff and did bow stuff instead) for my ranger when I started leveling her. Now she's sitting about on par with my bst in terms of aa and gear. With one notable exception, ranger has raid weapons/bow.

Thank you for the reply.  You list is fairly close to mine, save I do not work on Agro Reduction, usually group with a SK  who can keep agro with no issues.