The Beastlords' Den

Everquest 1 => Epic Discussions => Beastlord Epic 1.5 => Topic started by: Tzuka on October 16, 2004, 05:55:39 PM

Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Tzuka on October 16, 2004, 05:55:39 PM
I tried it today with 18 Time/Ikkinz geared people, and wiped 2x. The event has been changed because the mobs are all harder.

The pets now hit for 1k and are not rootable (an enc tried it - they are neither snarable, or mezzable). Boss and pets are only *partially* slowable now. The tank had defense on and said the boss was hitting for 814 (which is still higher than previously). Those are the most notable changes. We didnt have a paladin so i dont know if they are stunnable. The group was makeshift but nevertheless we had 2 clerics, 2 warriors, 2 shamans and a druid - which would have been good enough for the previous version.

Also, forgot to mention - the pets flurry and the boss AE rampages..

Just a heads up for all those trying this now..  :(
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Nakeka on October 16, 2004, 10:00:50 PM
Just tried to finish my epic and can confirm that fight is A LOT harder now. Named hits for up to 1400 and got an additional 500DD/stun proc, all warders can now hit for around 900-1000ish. I can confirm the AE rampage as well.

G'luck getting your epic now  :?
Title: difficulty
Post by: Meeshna on October 16, 2004, 10:17:16 PM
Well, as I've stated in my post and others in this section. I've had it with Sony and their catering to the high end folks who just happen to be the most vocal.  Not worth paying for 4 accounts n e more and all the expansions to go with them to watch peeps leave your friendly, family guild to go raid just to get their epic 1.5.  I thought OoW would be a nice change from the "raid" attitude that has taken Everquest and turned it into EverRAID.

Yes I"m grateful I don't have to sit and wait on a boat or spires for 15 minutes and I'm glad I don't have to work sense heading and that there are maps and compass in game now.  But whatever happened to the "QUESTING" for stuff that had a reachable conclusion.  They have made the final 1.5 fights impossible for most of the players, the casual ones n e way,who have better things to do with their time than write Sony and whine.   They even made a lot of the questing unfinished in PoP for the casual player who may not be able to get EP flagged to finish most of it.  Like the talisman gate necklaces and a few others.  I didn't sign on to play "EverRAID" I signed on for the quests - one with conclusions I could reach.  

I guess I will have to start being the voice of the little people since I can vocalize pretty darn loud.  My apologies to all who have read my rants over and over again. (It's the ones who atually listen that hear the repetition.)
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Lesrik on October 16, 2004, 10:20:25 PM
.....

Crap.  I don't see myself getting my epic anytime soon then.  My guild has trouble doing the necro epic final mob, and he's alone.  I don't see how in the world we can do the changed final fight now, unless we get help from other better geared people.

Why does SoE feel that these fights should be so hard?  I do not think there is any way of... what was it... 30-36 pre elemental geared people doing this if 18 Time+ geared people wiped, unless you have a lot of luck.  ><
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Tukash on October 16, 2004, 10:21:38 PM
Yep, the casual player got screwed again.  I finishted the RM fights last night and was going to do the last 2 fights tonight.  Doesn't look like its going to happen now.  Glad I wasted all this time working on the epic when I could have been leveling.
Title: ...
Post by: Mhordel on October 16, 2004, 10:36:49 PM
Grim Tidings Indeed!

I am glad I only wasted 2 days of play working on this quest.

A funny observation that they nerfed the weapon and then made it near-impossible for any casual person not past PoTime or in a commited Raid guild that doesnt mind doing Epics for folks.

lol.

I see this encounter now being a 5 group affair.

5 clerics, 5 druids, 2 shamans, 5 Plate Tanks (1 Warrior for Defensive), and a slew of DPS.

Its still doable by most of us, that can call on 36 people, organize 36 people, and not feel bad about dragging 36 people away from whatever else they were doing...
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Oneiromancer on October 16, 2004, 10:38:19 PM
And I guess I'm glad that I only just went looking for Muada last night on a lark after using Origin and haven't spent too much time on this quest yet.  The guild Tzuka's in is probably one I could be getting help on with that fight (I'm RL friends with one of their raid leaders) and they certainly should have been more than capable to beat it.  Hopefully it's a mistake and there will be a compromise made in the future.

Game on,
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Lesrik on October 16, 2004, 10:46:36 PM
Quote from: OneiromancerAnd I guess I'm glad that I only just went looking for Muada last night on a lark after using Origin and haven't spent too much time on this quest yet.  The guild Tzuka's in is probably one I could be getting help on with that fight (I'm RL friends with one of their raid leaders) and they certainly should have been more than capable to beat it.  Hopefully it's a mistake and there will be a compromise made in the future.

Game on,

A compromise would be great.  Heck... allowing us to single pull the warders so we only have to worry about the named would probably make this fight a whole lot easier.  Then you only have to worry about 1 guy at a time.

Maybe we can sic Tastian on them.  >.>
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Tukash on October 16, 2004, 10:49:37 PM
Or hey.. how bout putting it back where it was where it was still a challange for casual guilds/players.  Who cares if it was doable with one or two grps of elly/time equiped players it was still a challange for the rest of us in my opinion.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: neight on October 16, 2004, 11:11:32 PM
Just wiped to this encounter on Tribunal. Had 26 people, in a mix of VT/ele gear. We had more than enough healing, but only 3 warriors and one shadowknight. We weren't sure that hybrid dps classes (at our gear level) could offtank the adds, so we had two adds on each of two warriors, one on the shadowknight (whose gear is a lower-level; retired player recently returning to the game) and the remaining warrior on the DDA.

In retrospect, we probably should've tried using hybrid dps as offtanks anyway. The MT was down within seconds, the healers pulled aggro quickly, and it was a total mess.

The DDA's max hit on me was 1450, and the adds max hit was 1k even. I didn't notice a proc from the DDA at all (and most of the fight I was tanking it), nor did anyone notice AE rampage, but the whole thing was so chaotic it's highly possible I didn't notice it.

I still think it's do-able at our level. I've already got another cloak from Muada, and we'll give it another go when we have more tanks available.

Neight
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Vidyne on October 16, 2004, 11:44:41 PM
This now makes this harder than Agnarr?

And most PoP encounters for that matter.

/shrug
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Tzuka on October 17, 2004, 12:20:15 AM
Ok, i helped another bst do this fight today. We did it with about 28 people - most were Time/Qvic geared btw. We had to put an offtank on each pet with a dedicated healer to each offtank. They also put 3 clerics with the main tank offtanking the boss. Our initial plan was to just unleash dps on the boss while they offtanked the pets, but that didnt work because he had too much hp and the pets were ripping up tanks and healers. So, we changed strategy and began killing the pets asap. When they were all dead, we could focus our attention on the boss and he died eventually.

So now the event takes over 2x as many people as before, *if* they are extremely well geared.  :?
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Eatbugs on October 17, 2004, 02:07:13 AM
Um - I could see that it needed a bit of tuning to be in line with other epic fights (I don't think there was another 1.5 epic where the max any mob in the entire quest hit for was 850) but it sounds as though they've gone way overboard here.  I can't think of an epic 1.5 fight for any class that's this tough.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Aeshmal on October 17, 2004, 02:38:31 AM
We wiped this encounter twice tonight with 24 Time/Gates geared people. This is not tuned for 6 groups of pre-elemental people. It's just not. This should be /feedback 'd to Sony soon and often. I have my epic; I did it early, when the fight was reasonably simple.

It is not doable by a small guild of pre-elemental players currently. It requires at least 4 plate tanks, at least four to six clerics, and a lot of DPS. Not a well-tuned or tested change.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Kellaen on October 17, 2004, 03:55:29 AM
Some epics are grossly out of whack difficulty wise,  but imo that does not mean go back and buff the bunny out of all the 'easy' encounters. Poor design that was left for weeks before a silent knee-jerk reaction is a rather pathetic situation to still be occuring.
Title: difficulty
Post by: Meeshna on October 17, 2004, 06:40:10 AM
I totally agree Kellaen.

I want to thank everyone who has posted here and agree'd with the majority of us.  Unfortunately Sony isn't going to listen to us because it seems that only the high end raiders and their pocket books have n e influence over their decisions.  You would have thought with the HUGE positive reponse to the LDoN expansion that they would have realized it's the casual player who makes up most of the core of Everquest.  A few instanced zones in each expansion is nice but sheesh, 3 or 4 instanced zones with MAYBE a named compared to a guarantee'd RAID encounter with loot?!?!  n e one see a problem with this besides me?

And what has happened to all the quests with the decent and attainable rewards? The epic used to be one of those quest (course, some of the resulting weapons were pretty pathetic, i.e. pally epic, and the spawn timers needed a lot of work on a few, but it seemed they had learned their lesson with OoW. IT SEEMED!)

What was the point of even making a 1.5 epic if they were going to make the encounters undoable within a reasonable length of time from release.  They should have just gone ahead and made epic 2.0 and left it at that. With the attitude of, well, with new lvl's and expansions, the smaller guilds and casual players will be able to obtain that now out of date and pathetic piece of gear that was once ubah and treasured. /sigh

As stated before tho, if you live on the Bertox server, and need a helping hand, feel free to look me up.  Just expect the same in return.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Zyvox. on October 17, 2004, 12:36:48 PM
we wiped twice on this, with 28 people.  An elemental guild.

DDA hits for 1495, ramapages, and has 500 dd with stun, partially slowable
warders hit for up to 1k, no root, snare, mez or charm, half flurry, half rampage all summon

We had 4 pallies, and 1 warrior on the 5 warders because they cleric aggro is unreal.  one cleric for each of the off tanks, rest to DPS on the DDA.  1 shaman to slow dda, and 2 chanters 1 shaman, 1 bst to get the 5 warders slowed.

One of the pallies dropped in the first 5 seconds to flurry ( gator and tiger flurry for sure) and druid tried to drab to kite.  soon as it got near a cleric, it ate the cleric, and then is snowballed.  I'd saw we lasted may 20 seconds or so, and we got him to 88%, and all warders still alive.

With these same people, we completed the warrior final battle, the druid battle with earthshaker, and hav eene done the rogue final battle.  All those without difficulty.  I understand our last fight was underpowered, and needed to be tuned.  I get that.  But this is over tuned.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Tastian on October 17, 2004, 01:05:36 PM
I've asked them if maybe they overtuned things a bit and exactly what they feel this encounter is tuned for now.  It's the weekend, so we won't hear anything for a bit, but soon as I hear something I'll pass it along.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Zyvox. on October 17, 2004, 03:33:59 PM
additionally, wizzards got hit by the 1000 ddae with 100 mana/tick dot, and discordant mind which is a 450 mana drain.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: garios on October 17, 2004, 04:28:53 PM
Question how long is this even up for?....say could you go in kill a few warders off die rez back up than go back in and kill the rest of the fight?
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Vidyne on October 17, 2004, 04:36:56 PM
Yes, that is the only solution for casual players now, to suicide this fight.

You have 1 hour to complete it.... unless thats been fixed too.

Tank Named/adds best you can.. survive for as long as possible, while focusing on one warder at atime, get 2 down in the opening round and Id say you have a shot.

Try not to damage Animist at all til adds are dead, so he wont summon on second attempts.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Beerig-FV on October 17, 2004, 05:33:57 PM
Quote from: VidyneTry not to damage Animist at all til adds are dead, so he wont summon on second attempts.

Noticed last night some of the bossmobs and their adds /shield one another ont he Paladin Epic fight in Walls of Slaughter...

If you were planning to not damage the bossmob because of summon-issues... once the bossmob decides to shield his warders, he will get damage and thus the ability to summon...  should take it into account if it is possible...
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Shrouded on October 17, 2004, 05:42:56 PM
Quote from: Beerig-FV
Quote from: VidyneTry not to damage Animist at all til adds are dead, so he wont summon on second attempts.

Noticed last night some of the bossmobs and their adds /shield one another ont he Paladin Epic fight in Walls of Slaughter...

If you were planning to not damage the bossmob because of summon-issues... once the bossmob decides to shield his warders, he will get damage and thus the ability to summon...  should take it into account if it is possible...

1.  I would not even bring this one up till it's confirmed, it's kind of like saying "omg this mob has the potential to deathtouch", but to a lesser extent, obviously.
2.  Regardless, shielding refresh times are long enough for you to complete the event without having it happen again or for it to only happen a few times (if you are doing the new suggested methods for the upgraded battle of simply sniping out a warder and running away, rinse, repeat).
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: wraithlion on October 17, 2004, 06:24:33 PM
One thing to watch out for also there is a red to 68 Girplan raid mob in room upstairs from our room.  We all were in hall away from him and not sure if someone came in and pulled him out or wha, but he ended up behind us and whiped us.  Not sure what happened but somone pulled all 6 out of room and they were in hall where the kvy wanderers.  When we were all buffed and rezzed and ready to go, had all 6 tanks ready to get there mobs.  Souldrainer wandered past and agroed us and him and the epic mobs whiped us again.

Make sure no one is close to the stairs or that hall or  you are in for a world of hurt like we were.  I am in a guild just breaking into VT so we were not equipped or ready for this mess.  

Also on my first attempt before patch a bard in my guild said he was able to lull the warders.  He has the new oow lull song so this may help with this encounter.  I am scheduling my next attempt around his schedule so if this works the encounter should be alot easier.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Vidyne on October 17, 2004, 07:21:39 PM
Lulling doesnt help.

The mobs are treated as pet and master.

To aggro one is to aggro the rest, even if you are halfway across the zone, he will come for you.

It has been tested I believe, pet pulling which can bring singles out of almost ANY cluster, and it still brought all of them.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: wraithlion on October 17, 2004, 09:33:51 PM
IF they are lulled will they come right away or after lull drops?   IF they do not come till lull drops then can have a bard or 2 keep them lulled and have ma pull the DDA.  I know DDA could not be lulled by my guildie but warders could be.  So if this works can keep them lulled till you loot and  can roll on what was in chest in another zone.  Have mass trans done and have bard take his last or fade and leave the warders there.   May have to take him there and have cleric camped close to see if we can single pull with lull, if so bard can do this i hope.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: kukana on October 17, 2004, 10:54:07 PM
I think as current, the way to do this is to have everyone tick off the warders one by one while the MT keeps the boss busy.  They should drop fast.  

I was one of the off-tanks for Wrathlion's first attempt (taking on the tiger warder) and with just me and my warder on it, I was able to get it down to about 45% before the raid cracked and we wiped.  I figured if everyone had been moving from warder to warder, they should drop very fast and then move to the main boss.

Of course, that requires enough healing/mana to keep the MT alive while they are waiting for us to get on the boss.

This fight STILL sucks, though, compared to some of the other end-epic fights.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Vidyne on October 18, 2004, 12:36:04 AM
You.... cant have Offtanked a warder in the NEW encounter with your current magelo profile.

They require Time Bsts or Ornate Plate Tanks now.

Just an estimate..

But one quad of 1000 1000 1000 1000 and youd be down to 2k hp in one round... if he got you on a max quad... let alone if he flurried.

Lull does NOT work as tried by those so far.... I dont think you are understanding Lull and aggro.

Lull lowers the aggro radius of a mob to the best of my knowledge, some one correct me.

When you touch DDA, it puts you on aggro for all of his 5 pets.

You could lull all you want... when something aggros DDA, it aggros the pets, and the pets will come from anywhere, no matter how far they are away to kill it.

Pet pulling is the only exception to this I "think"  though I personally havent tried it.  In theory, you could pet pull DDA anywhere you wanted without pets adding, but as soon as you landed a hand on him, all his pets would come running.

However, pet pulling probably doesnt work either.   Just assume that when you pull one, you pull them all, as all conventional methods have been tried.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Shieara on October 18, 2004, 01:00:24 AM
Wow glad I already got mine.  Sounds like they made this fight a real PITA.   Hopefully they will tone it down a bit because it sounds like they made it too hard.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: kukana on October 18, 2004, 02:04:09 AM
You are right, it was last week that I tanked a warder.  I didn't realize that SOE screwed us again and changed the fight.  Sorry for the confusion.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: DontPetBear on October 18, 2004, 09:10:47 AM
Man i really hope this gets changed back or at the least retuned.  Just finished my DS Girplan tonight, and was looking forward to getting an alliance raid scheduled in 1-2 weeks.  I would probably be able to get 4-5 grps max., with average level of ~62.  Dunno if i'm gonna be dragging anyone out there if it's this hard.  Maybe if the kill 2 warders/port out, come back and kill again thing works.

If you're up to the Sphinxes part, might as well do the Girplan.  He wasn't that hard.  Did it with 65 Nec, 66 Clr, 52 Rgr, and me 65 Bst.  Paci'd the NW mob that kept adding, and finally got named single by pet pulling.  He dropped fairly fast and the best thing was a chest popped after i looted him.  Dropped a pretty nice melee no plate tank face item, attunable.  I just sold it in bazaar and gave profits to those that helped in fight.

Dunno what else to say.  I can't tank a warder that quads for 1k and mitigates slow.  Maybe if he doubled and didn't flurrie i could do it.  Was hoping to get 1 Elem. geared Sk for named, and me with 4 Ornate or lower geared tanks for Warders.  A druid/cleric for each offtank and 2 for Sk.  That leaves about 15, most below 65, for dps.  What are my chances of burning down the named or 2 warders in ~1-2 minutes.  About the time /disc's will run out and healers will be low on mana.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Katillone on October 18, 2004, 01:32:46 PM
What bothers me is.. for the power that it takes to finish the last fight, most people that can do it from raiding guilds.. already have comparable weapons so epic 1.5 isnt that large of an upgrade.

It was always my understanding that the 1.5 was geared more toward the smaller guilds that only seldomly raid, and that 2.0 was for the hardcore gamers with a lotta time on their paws to raid and improve, so to speak.

I'm really hoping that our correspondent can get the devs to see these posts and get it fine tuned downward just a little.  Find a compromise on that large fight.

Katillone Quickpaw
Inny Server
Eclipsing Sojourn

<insert magelo here.. man i need to do that sometime> :P
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: TheOriginalGronker on October 18, 2004, 01:38:01 PM
Has anyone tried pet pulling while invis?
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Aeshmal on October 18, 2004, 01:39:01 PM
You're not going to pet pull this fight. The DDA hits for 1400; he'll slaughter any pet you try to pull with in a matter of one or two seconds.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: TheOriginalGronker on October 18, 2004, 01:51:29 PM
Quote from: AeshmalYou're not going to pet pull this fight. The DDA hits for 1400; he'll slaughter any pet you try to pull with in a matter of one or two seconds.
I've pulled stuff that hits as hard with a baby pet.  Invulnerability is a wonderful thing.

Remember you are invis and if they don't see invis, this should be a very safe thing to try - if the pet dies, try again until he/she gets lucky with the round of attacks.

edit: whoops I'm hearing that mobs attack you after pet dies and you are invis ... but there is always CoTH!   :wink:
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Shatho on October 18, 2004, 01:52:26 PM
We did the pre-nerf fight with three groups very easily.  Mostly a Time / GoD geared guild.  We went in last night with three groups and didn't last 10 seconds.  No way am I going to be able to get 5 groups that it's going to take to get this fight done now.  Ridiculous.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Hurath on October 18, 2004, 03:49:20 PM
heh wiped with 22 ele peops on Terrew Marr.  Don't see me doing this with anything less than 30 really and of the right classes.  Gonna be tough but i think the beasts of my guild and another guild are gonna try an ally to pull both our guilds together to get this encounter done.  I laugh cuz the uber peops probably got their stuff done prior the patch and now us guys who aren't as uber and had the quest therefore take longer for us end up with a fight 3x as hard as it had previously been.  I did think the fight sounded too easy b4 revamp but now its just insane.  Hope Sony compromises until then i guess i put quest on hold :/

my 2cp.  

Hurath
67 beastlord
under the legion of the
Cursed Brotherhood
on Terrew Marr
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Rhaynne on October 18, 2004, 04:01:27 PM
It sounds like they may have gone overboard...

However, in comparison to many of the other class epic 1.5, ours was far too easy.  The only bottleneck of any significance was in ME.  The last two "raid" fights could be done with 2 people (Girplan) and a group and a half or so for the final fight.

Compare this to the mage, enchanter, monk, warrior, wizard, necro, ranger, druid, rogue, paladin and sk epics (all of which I have been involved in) and you will see just how incredibly simple ours was.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: negrismorte on October 18, 2004, 05:02:02 PM
Quote from: RhaynneThe last two "raid" fights could be done with 2 people (Girplan) and a group and a half or so for the final fight.

The 2nd to last fight (Girplan) is not likely doable by 2 people of ele gear or below.  I don't know what all has or hasn't changed since the patch, but I did this fight after the patch.

Girplan was only partially slowable and hits in the 800s.  Pet pulling didn't work - even with rune V and Virtue.  The pet just died too fast.  It looked like the pet was summoned while it was returning - this happened at least 5 times before we tried something else.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Khelindros on October 18, 2004, 05:11:41 PM
I can confirm that (for me) pet pulling worked. i used level 54 pet, focused /w summoners boon, fireblade, mardu mask, 500 hp girdle and most important SOW. sent in in backed it off and made it no problem. i dont even have pet hold command. just spammed /pet back off. i trio'd this with 67 mage, me 68 bst and a 69 cleric. no problem. you can do it just need patience.

Edit: just wondering what does the girplan have to do with the final fight?
:roll:
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Rhutubok on October 18, 2004, 05:40:46 PM
When do the warders spawn exactly? When the DDA is aggroed or do they spawn upon turn in?

If they spawn upon turn in, I would set up the encounter EMP style trying to keep CC in the room and fight DDA up the steps. Have OTs with pre-targets, DA pally to pull, etc. My fear would be DDA turning on an OT before he could make it up the steps.

If the warders don't spawn until DDA is aggroed, this obviously would be alot harder to pull off. Of course, if the reports that warders can be singled from DDA are correct, this event may not have be any more difficult, just different. /shrug


Rhutubok
Oger on Brell
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: negrismorte on October 18, 2004, 07:10:24 PM
Quote from: KhelindrosEdit: just wondering what does the girplan have to do with the final fight?
:roll:

Since you are apparently going to be the topic police or self appoionted train derailer ... it doesnt have anything to do with the "final fight."   It addresses a statement made in a previous post.  :shock:
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Tukash on October 18, 2004, 07:27:46 PM
QuoteThe last two "raid" fights could be done with 2 people (Girplan) and a group and a half or so for the final fight.

No way my guild could do Girplan with 2 people (a grp sure, based on some of the strats I read) or the final fight as it was with a grp and 1/2.  Yes those of you that are elly or beyond could have done it.   But again the 1.5 was supposed to be geared towards the casual player.  I don't consider elly+ casual.  Its comments like these that need to be clarified on the levels of people that are able to do them.  I'm not slamming you Raynne but looking at your gear.. Yea a grp and 1/2 of similiar equiped could have done it.  Not a grp and 1/2 from my guild which is a family guild and Ornate equiv equiped, high end LDoN, and maybe some GoD gear.[/quote]
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Khelindros on October 18, 2004, 07:57:51 PM
Not trying to be "topic police" or "derail any trains" but it is *very* frustrating to look on the boards for your topic...which is all your interested in reading about just to find out that its now the Final Fight is now all about how to find the Ogre in CT. its silly. thats why there are topics...i'm pretty sure. so you can post info about that topic, in that thread. Could be just me /shrug. Do us all a favor post CT strat in CT thread. post Final Fight info under Final Fight thread. So when we see someone new post something we know it is relavent to what we are actually searching for. thanks.


__________________

Khelindros Dragonfury <Rising Darkness>
68 Beastlord
FV server
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Vidyne on October 18, 2004, 09:01:30 PM
Turn in cloak to lady

Spawns Animist + 5 pets

and yes you have the best strategy to have offtanks assigned and targeted.

And yes you have the right fear.
DDA turning and ganging with his pet on an offtank before MA warrior can get the aggro needed to yank him away without also getting the pet on himself too.

A ballad of controlling aggro perfectly, because to tank 2 now is death, anyway you put it.

How exactly does DA work anyone know?
Im not a pally so I dunno.

5 Pallies as offtanks, 8k+ def aaed
1 Warrior as MT, 10k+ def aaed

1 pally, your weakest to Target DDA and stun him along with the offtanks stunning.

5 clerics for the pallies.
5 slowers for the offtanks ideally

1 slower for DDA and 2 clerics for the MA.

5 pallies get target, 1 lil pally gets target DDA and DAs, then stuns animist as other pallie sstun theirs.

Lil pally runs in to animist, Pets run to Offtanks
Lil Pally is immune to damage for how long?

Warrior taunts aggro off lil pally while shaman slows, lil pally could also keep stunning to hold aggro as long as possible maybe even use him as suicide to get the mob slowed.

Slowers hopefully Def aaed and good hp, immediately slow adds and offtanks begin.

Second Tank calls assist and is MA and takes down first warder with all dps.

Warrior tanking DDA and his group just hold DDA somewhere away from raid a bit and stay alive.

Second Tank leads dps through all 5 warders one at a time.

Warrior might be dying at this point, depending on the quality of his healers and group.

Reslow Animist, Nuke and dot him to death, all pets in to him to, back off if need.  Melee get to sit and watch and heal/etc if they can.

This is how I see it working now.

However there is no putting Beastlords or Rangers to tank now.

There is no having one slower slowly slow them all
Would say 3 slowers for offtanks is minimum, and 1 for DDA alone.

Im not even sure you can have druids as healers now.

You must have Plate tanks and dang fine ones(Pre elemental, Im sure some Time Beast will say he tanked them post upgrade, and yes... thats fine... now lets get back to the casual player)
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Aeshmal on October 18, 2004, 09:26:14 PM
This is incorrect, and suggests that the force required for this fight is larger than it really is. The fight has been made much harder in some ways, but it is significantly easier in some ways as well.

In particular, the Warders can be split from the Discordling Dark Animist.

We have our pair of monks split them. It wasn't even very hard, and it didn't take long. We took the Warders out in pairs, got the fifth one solo. They hit hard and they're tough to slow, but they have crap for HP; maybe 32k at most. Our tank took one down to 95% before the rest of us got around to hitting it. Any plate tank with decent (Ornate) gear can tank these without incident.

The Animist himself is still tough, but if you get him solo, which you now can, he's a wimp. Tank him with a solid Defensive/Stonewall warrior and he hits for about 800. Then just unload on him. Took us about 4 minutes with 22 Time/Gates people. The whole encounter was maybe 10, 15 minutes.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: VahlaraEQ-Dev on October 19, 2004, 12:33:34 AM
Hi guys,

I'm looking into this.  

This event did need to be increased in difficulty because it was meant to be a raid event and it wasn't.  That said, it shouldn't take a Time-level force of multitudes to beat it.

It should take between 5 and 6 groups though of decent-geared folks.

Just want you to know that I've seen the issue and will look into it.  I'll have an update for you as soon as possible.  

Vahlar
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Eatbugs on October 19, 2004, 12:45:51 AM
QuoteIn particular, the Warders can be split from the Discordling Dark Animist.

Hm, that wasn't true before the patch, which is probably why people weren't thinking in terms of splitting them.  If that's true now, it makes this fight significantly easier than reported.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Vidyne on October 19, 2004, 02:14:18 AM
If pets can be split, then I am fine with the new changes.

If pets still cant be split, then... it needs a tune down.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Catgal on October 19, 2004, 09:47:35 AM
From the info I see, I think it is still reasonable if the pets can't be splited. This mob is now like Pally's final mob, probably ours still easier. I would only complain if they didn't fix the drop rate in ME to tune this up.

QuoteThe 2nd to last fight (Girplan) is not likely doable by 2 people of ele gear or below. I don't know what all has or hasn't changed since the patch, but I did this fight after the patch.

Girplan was only partially slowable and hits in the 800s. Pet pulling didn't work - even with rune V and Virtue. The pet just died too fast. It looked like the pet was summoned while it was returning - this happened at least 5 times before we tried something else.

Bold and Italic part: Ummm... ? You did something wrong here...

EDIT:
- Pretty sure Girplan doesn't summon people when it is still at 100%, so I assume it summons at 96%. You did something wrong here.
- For pet pulling, use /pet hold + /pet follow, instead of /pet hold + /pet back off. It helps a lot, coz in back off mode, the pet will be walking, and in pet follow mode, pet will be running.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Ekss on October 19, 2004, 12:10:10 PM
Quote from: Catgaluse /pet hold + /pet follow, instead of /pet hold + /pet back off. It helps a lot, coz in back off mode, the pet will be walking, and in pet follow mode, pet will be running.
That hasn't been my experience: if the pet has previously been told to /pet guard, then when you back it off (by whatever means, /pet hold or /pet back off) then it will walk back; however, if the pet was previously in follow mode you can back it off and it will run.

I think what you say about /pet hold and /pet follow will work as you describe; I just don't think /pet hold and /pet back off won't work (unless the pet has been told to guard, as I say).
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Gremkin on October 19, 2004, 01:52:14 PM
Vahlara-

Can you be more specific as to what you mean by "decent-geared?"  That is a pretty general term that can mean a lot of different things, depending on your perspective.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Giledorm on October 19, 2004, 02:11:12 PM
Quote from: GremkinVahlara-

Can you be more specific as to what you mean by "decent-geared?"  That is a pretty general term that can mean a lot of different things, depending on your perspective.

Dang, someone beat me to the question.  Glad I finished reading the thread before posting.   :oops:
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Rhutubok on October 19, 2004, 03:36:04 PM
Thanks for the quick input Vahlara. I will add though that 5 to 6 groups sure sounds like alot.

Rhutubok
Oger on Brell
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: negrismorte on October 19, 2004, 04:28:27 PM
Quote from: Catgal
QuoteGirplan was only partially slowable and hits in the 800s. Pet pulling didn't work - even with rune V and Virtue. The pet just died too fast. It looked like the pet was summoned while it was returning - this happened at least 5 times before we tried something else.

Bold and Italic part: Ummm... ? You did something wrong here...

EDIT:
- Pretty sure Girplan doesn't summon people when it is still at 100%, so I assume it summons at 96%. You did something wrong here.
- For pet pulling, use /pet hold + /pet follow, instead of /pet hold + /pet back off. It helps a lot, coz in back off mode, the pet will be walking, and in pet follow mode, pet will be running.

It may have been lag, which I why I wrote looked.  The pet got half-way back to the group then warped back to the middle of the pack.  The pet was sowed and appeared to be running.

If I ever get the timing and group ready for the final battle, I wil try to pet pull the warders.  I know I can't get three groups of time+ geared people  :?

Edited for quoting probs.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Khelindros on October 19, 2004, 07:57:21 PM
The warder will only walk back if you have it /guarded somewhere. otherwise /pet back off will make it run. use sow on the pet for faster results.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Oneiromancer on October 19, 2004, 08:09:48 PM
QuoteThe tuning changes to the Dark Animist were not tested and not ready to go live yet.
We will take a look at this as soon as possible.

Thanks,
-Prathun

http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=beastlordbalance&message.id=1941#M1941

Figures...

Game on,
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Quinnotetiquan on October 20, 2004, 07:02:25 AM
This is nothing compared to some epics final battles, not to mention just about the whole Bard 1.5 epic.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: VahlaraEQ-Dev on October 20, 2004, 10:44:38 PM
Hi all,

Just to clarify:

When I said "decent gear" I meant that this raid event should provide a good challenge to skilled players that may just be ready to enter, or are early in, the elemental planes.

And yes, this is a raid event, which means that it should take a small raid force (5 to 6 groups) to complete.  The 1.5 epic quest is still designed to be attainable to the more casual guilds, but not soloable or done with one or two groups.  You still need a good number of friends to get it done.

That said, after watching beastlords go through this content, the epic raid event was not difficult enough.

The changes are being looked at and tested.  As soon as I have an update for you, I'll let you know.

Vahlar
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Katillone on October 21, 2004, 12:55:01 AM
Sadly, to the casual gamer "small raid" is 2-3 solid groups.  5-6 is a full blown 2-3 guild raid in a lot of cases and almost never happens.

I know that personally, being that I cannot play daily, or sometimes even weekly, trying to get 30-40 people to help me do anything would be very difficult.  I'd get the response of "Well you seldom play, why should I bother helping you out?" and then get laughed at.

I'm sorry, but still.. college > eq, and if I could put together 4-6 solid groups for anything, I wouldnt be "casually raiding" and in a tiny close knit guild.  I'd for sure be elemental/time/ikkinz+ geared by now.

I wish I would have had the expansion and had time to play before it was beefed up beyond completion, but because of my "casual gaming" experience, I've been screwed again.  I thought the money I put into my 2 accounts every month was worth the same amount as anyone else who pays for their 2 accounts, regardless of play schedule.

Katillone Tammik
Eclipsing Sojourn
Innoruuk Server
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Tukash on October 21, 2004, 03:58:56 AM
I have to agree, sorry but low end elly is not casual, that is a raiding guild.  My guild is luck to have 18 people on at one time and some of those are lower lvl.  I can maybe get 24 high levels together if given a warning and plan for a raid, but that is still going to be 1 or 2 grps shy of the recommended number and gear wise still going to be below what SoE is calling casual.  I'm a full time student and work also, if i get on for more than 2 or 3 hrs at a time then I'm lucky.  Many in my guild are the same way.  That is a casual player, not someone who is in a guild that can call upon 36 players on a whim.. thats whats called a raiding guild, low end maybe, but still a raiding guild.  It's a shame that SoE's idea of casual is still above what an actual casual player is.  The raiding players that have access to the elementals have their weapon to look forward to, the 1.5 was advertised as obtainable for the casual player, how about following through on what was advertised.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: DontPetBear on October 21, 2004, 04:50:26 AM
Vahlara, i'm not sure you understand what a small guild is.  Tukash and Katillone put it very well i think.  It would take me 4 guilds to get 5-6 groups of ppl for this epic fight.  And these are by no means near/in Elementals.  I would be happy to get 2 solid groups of 65+ players.  The rest would fall in the 55-64 range.

These are players that log on to have fun.  Have 2-3 alts at higher levels.  Taken a lot of time, effort and plat to GM tradeskills.  Sure they would love to advance through PoP and get nicer items.  But honestly that's not the most important thing to them.  The players who needed to advance quickly, left these guilds, and joined the raiding guilds on my server.

If someone actually did the final fight with 1-2 groups, and was pre-elemental, then definately this fight was too easy.  However, 1-2 groups of Time+ players ~= to 3-6 groups of pre-elemental players IMO.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: negrismorte on October 21, 2004, 05:35:08 AM
Quote from: VahlaraEQ-DevThat said, after watching beastlords go through this content, the epic raid event was not difficult enough.

The changes are being looked at and tested.  As soon as I have an update for you, I'll let you know.

Vahlar

You didn't watch pre-ele groups burn thru this; those were the time+ people.  BTW, in many ways 2-3 time gear people will succeed in encounters where 7+ groups of pre-ele people will fail.  It is not just a matter of gear, those time peeps are FAR more likely to have the corresponding AAs.

Yes, the old encounter was easy compared to some other encounters and needed tuning.  However, the people who tore thru this event were in more instances than not already geared with similar or better equipment.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Felidae on October 21, 2004, 02:18:16 PM
And it's classic that not only are they tuning the event up, but tuning the reward down.  Bah.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Khelindros on October 21, 2004, 02:59:25 PM
Aye it is a bit silly how they lowerd the COLD DMG down by one point. Wonder who decided to do that. /shrug. Its still pretty decent and will replace either one of my current time weapons...not sure which one yet. Just trying to muster up the forces now. We have the people, and we are just Corinav away from Time...but i still cant get the dang thing done. Mostly because of the timing of the Erana Ferrel, and secondly need to get a raid force just for me...oh well
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Maraketha on October 21, 2004, 05:49:34 PM
I sure hope this gets re-tuned soon.  My epic, as well as the epic of many Beastlords on my server, is now on hold because of the nature of this event.

Yes I realise the entire epic was quite easy compared to other classes.  The way to fix it is not to completely destroy all hope of getting the epic for guilds who are not able to muster the forces needed to finish the final fight.  I did the entire epic with help from my husband's level 55 Cleric, and the hardest part was the 52 hour camp in ME.  

We are in the top 4 guilds on our server  guild with Time/Ikkinz gear.  With a force of approximately 4-5 groups we were slaughtered by the Dark Animist and his Warders.  The event ended up de-spawning during our third attempt (we wiped 3 times) though we feel we did get a good strat down.  Guilds on my server who are far more advanced than us, are also failing on this event with the same amount of people.  Since finding out the Warders are able to be split there is a possiblility we may attempt this again.  I am lucky to have the well equiped raid force needed to even think of trying this event.

This defeinately should be within reach of lesser geared and more casual players.  They work just as hard as high end players to get their epic.  Everyone should be given a fair chance.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Quinnotetiquan on October 22, 2004, 01:37:20 AM
Do the Dark Animist's 5 warders still have the same amount of HP they had before?
Title: Have something to say
Post by: Flies on October 22, 2004, 03:59:22 AM
This event is overkill. There is no reason a guild that is elemental / time geared to wipe to this event. We had 5 groups. More then enough to do this. The pets are not splitable, unless there is something that we haven't thought about to break this spawn. This is not even reasonable. There is no reason stuff like this should even went live. How long could it take a Dev to test this out to understand this event is way over-tuned. Yes it should have been upgraded but not to this point. Can we get an ETA on what is planned for this or is the Dev team waiting for more post?

Flies
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Zyvox. on October 23, 2004, 12:25:23 AM
We succeeded on this last night The Warders are splittable.  It took some creativity, and here are a few things to note.  The assist range is HUGE.  One person can not split them alone.  When the warders and DDA lose agro, they dont ever track back or warp to their spawn, they will stay where they are when they no longer have aggro.  We used a bard and a druid, and several attempts to do it just right, but the bard aggrooed them all and ran them out of the tunnels, the druid was able to aggro the dda out of the pack and pull it back to the group as the druid brought the DDA back solo to the raid.  The druid can evac after the raid has the dda to drop his aggro and get him off the warders hate list.  Then the bard can fade and the warders will not come back and help the dda.  An attempt at splitting 3 warders off and having them a long way from the other 3 mobs, but still in the tunnel resulted in the other 3 still adding, lending to a myth they are still linked,  if you get them far enough apart, they do split
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: garios on October 23, 2004, 12:59:35 AM
what about the mobs in the area? the regular mobs that path around there? do they despawn? or are they still up and can respawn? cause wont that mess it up alot?
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Eatbugs on October 23, 2004, 04:49:33 PM
Hm - a Bard tag team using highsun/fade might work, if you clear the halls so the raid is around a couple of corners first.  I may try to talk our Bards into it next time we try this fight, they're always complaining about not being asked to pull much.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Zyvox. on October 24, 2004, 04:00:39 PM
Heh.  I used one of your bards to do this Grim :p  Highsun is resisted.  you can use bards an monk to tandem split like the old zek fight to get him away from the add, just takes a lot of patience.

As for the mobs in the area, kill em, kite em, do what you like with em.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Felidae on October 25, 2004, 01:40:53 PM
I'm totally disheartened by this.  I'ts a big deal for me to get this many folks together just to help me out.  I'd ploughed through the content to get to this battle and then when my spot in the epic battle queue of my guild came up the event gets tuned way up to the point that I don't dare even ask for help unless we get 7 or 8 groups which we never do for the epic nights.

So I carry around the cloak helping others get their epics.... gah.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Rhutubok on October 25, 2004, 03:58:19 PM
Zyvox, you are saying the druid was able to agro the DDA from the pack as it ran by without the warders agroing the druid? And were all mobs out of the tunnels before the druid picked off the DDA? I ask because several posters have reported that any agro on any of the mobs resulted in all the mobs ganging the player with agro.

For that matter, if one chooses to off-tank warders, can they be singled for offtanking? There seems to be people saying they can while others saying they cannot. Im so confused...

Rhutubok
Oger on Brell
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Aeshmal on October 25, 2004, 04:44:27 PM
I think the point is, folks, that Epic 1.5 is not a gift. It's a better-than-Time level weapon for Beastlords, and that associates it with a certain level of difficulty. If you can't get 6 groups of pre-Elemental people together, then you're not really entitled to have the weapon; there has to be a minimum level of difficulty for this kind of thing. You are not entitled to your epic weapon just because you paid your 30 bucks for Omens like everyone else.

I've done the encounter a couple of times post-patch, and it's entirely doable by the forces suggested. 36 pre-Elemental people can do this; really, they can. Even if you don't split the mobs apart (tough, but possible), you can burn the warders down one by one very quickly--and once they're dead, killing the DDA isn't particularly difficult.

With regards to singling out one mob or another from the group; it can be done, but it's tricky. The idea is that the assist range on these particular mobs is enormous. Like, really big. If you can pull them far enough apart (which means you need to clear a whole bunch of trash in the surrounding hallways), you can get one without the others. But you need to pull them _really_ far apart for this to work. I promise, it's doable.

I note in passing that, if Sony wishes to make this event require 6 groups, then it really ought to drop two chests of low Elemental quality loot, just as any 6-groupable Elemental mob (PoAir avatars, for example) would. That would go a long way towards helping convince people to come along for the ride.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Zyvox. on October 25, 2004, 04:52:22 PM
all 5 mobs pretty much came together, with 1 bard, it was impossible for us to split of warders to single.  First try we split into 2 groups of 3 using a sacrificial chanter.  3 mobs were at the first bend in the tunnel, 3 were by the hall into spawn room.  That was too close, the second 3 added.  we wiped.  All 6 mobs were sitting where they killed us.  We CR'd and rebuffed just out side there spawn room.  Druid went out , and pulled all 6 mobs out of the caves.  He paused to see if they were following and died in under 2 seconds, all mobs were sitting out side.  Then, the bard and the druid did a combination of aggroing all, and then pulling the dda away from the 5 warders and ran them in different directions, then when pulled to hte group he evaced and the bard faded.  I do not know exactly how far away the bard was, but I believe it was about as far away as you can get.  

This was pulled off again the other night, with the split pull planned from the start and went well, and another epic was completed.  The adjusted the pull a bit but I cant give details, I was workin in the ER that night.  The key seems to be have the dda as far from the warders as possible and make sure anyone that might have cross agro evacs/FDs/or fades so they stay split.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Khelindros on October 26, 2004, 01:09:47 PM
Good ideas, and congrats! Just one question here though: How exactly...if they were close together...did the druid/bard finally run different directions; one with the warders and the other with the animist. That is the good info i'm lookin for  :) Thanks in advance.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Hzark on October 26, 2004, 02:23:11 PM
Quote from: Aeshmal
Even if you don't split the mobs apart (tough, but possible), you can burn the warders down one by one very quickly--and once they're dead, killing the DDA isn't particularly difficult.

This is how we did it, after a wipe using alternative methods on our first attempt.

If you do wipe at the first attempt, any warders that dropped before the wipe will not respawn.

If you do it like that, without wasting time trying to split the mobs, you should have time to rez up and rebuff and have a second attempt. The fight will be much easier the second time if some of the warders were killed the first time.

The biggest pain-in-the-fundament part of this event is the 2 hours up, 2 hours down NPC spawn. If you have trouble getting the required force together, this completely unnecessary piece of crap makes it much harder. Why can't the NPC be up all the time except perhaps after the event has been triggered? (Although it was also a pain to have to go away and come back 2 hours after triggering the event to complete the hand in of the discordant beast totem).
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Volsykat on October 26, 2004, 06:01:43 PM
Has anyone done this post-10/25 patch?  Did SOE do the intelligent thing and revert the untested, "nost supposed to go live" final fight to what it was previously, at least until they tune it correctly, or have they left it overpowered?
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Khelindros on October 26, 2004, 06:33:01 PM
Personally i would *love* to try it but stupid 2 hour on 2 hour off on Erana is killing me. if my guildies can help out i'll try tonight but that is unlikly as we are raiding. I probably wont get to try untill the weekend. Although i'm pretty sure nothing changed. I didnt notice any Dranik files while loading the patch...however they may have stealth changed it like they did our actual epic weapon  :roll: good luck to all who try.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Kinal on October 26, 2004, 08:46:06 PM
Quote from: VolsykatHas anyone done this post-10/25 patch?  Did SOE do the intelligent thing and revert the untested, "nost supposed to go live" final fight to what it was previously, at least until they tune it correctly, or have they left it overpowered?

I just love how that if something goes live that benefits the players somehow (Sullon Zek-only loot on LDON vendors for example) the zones/servers are brought down immediately and the correction is made.  But if something "accidentally" goes live that hurts the player, they "look into it" and fix it whenever they get around to it.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Volsykat on October 26, 2004, 08:57:44 PM
Yeah, which is why I'm expecting they didn't do the intelligent thing, but I'm hoping...I'm in a family guild that manages 3 groups for a raid, and a raid group that these days can manage *maybe* twice that on a good day.  As it is, managing this is possible but difficult, and I'd most likely have to exhaust both to maximum ability to manage the healing and offtanking in case we're unable to split, since that seems a precarious thing, judging from reports.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: KrysiaKazzimiera on October 27, 2004, 03:46:15 AM
Nothing has been changed with this fight on monday's patch :(  Tried this again tonight (Tuesday Oct. 26th)
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Aeshmal on October 27, 2004, 04:07:45 AM
QuoteI just love how that if something goes live that benefits the players somehow (Sullon Zek-only loot on LDON vendors for example) the zones/servers are brought down immediately and the correction is made. But if something "accidentally" goes live that hurts the player, they "look into it" and fix it whenever they get around to it.
It's a matter of degree and of balance. Sullon Zek loot on LDoN vendors (I'm not familiar with this incident, but the point is nonetheless valid) has the potential to be unbalancing to the game by allowing a large number of players to obtain equipment that they could otherwise not obtain. That's bad. In the extreme case, like that of the Kunark release when deep Sebilis loot was dropping in Field of Bone, the potential for imbalance is critical enough to necessitate an immediate patch.

By contrast, an issue like a fight that is too difficult is not an imbalance to the game. It's thoroughly inconvenient to a small subset of the player population, but by and large it doesn't hurt or even affect the game at all.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Kinal on October 27, 2004, 03:05:05 PM
The degree doesn't (and shouldn't) matter.  Code went live that, admittedly, should not have.   Roll it back!  It's not rocket science.  

And in this case, the code only affects 1 zone.  Take the zone down for 5 minutes, roll back the code, viola!  Done.

My point was that Sony has shown repeatedly that when code goes live that shouldn't have, they CAN roll it back quickly.  Why they choose to only selectively apply that expedience is a mystery to me.


Here's a free tip Sony!  Look into some form of code checkin and checkout.  CVS is free and works quite well.  It will help you stop making stupid code mistakes like this in the future.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Aeshmal on October 27, 2004, 06:59:26 PM
QuoteMy point was that Sony has shown repeatedly that when code goes live that shouldn't have, they CAN roll it back quickly. Why they choose to only selectively apply that expedience is a mystery to me.
Because, speaking from a sysadmin position where I have to do things like that on occasion, rolling back to an older version of something like code isn't necessarily trivial. It's certainly doable, but it's usually a pain and it involves a bunch of staff time. In this case, it's probably not worth Sony's development time to roll back this one particular change immediately, when they could just wait for the next patch day.

Staff time is damned expensive; it's not worth a lot of money to Sony to appease a small subset of their population a couple of weeks early. It's also not guaranteed that these changes are as unbalanced as players are claiming; as I said, I've beaten the new version of the encounter with the forces suggested (34 sub-Elemental players).

So, again, it IS a matter of degree. If it's not a critical rollback, as some events in the past have been, maybe it's not important enough to justify the expenditure of a special patch.

Also, I will promise you that Sony developers use a versioning system of some kind. I would geuss that they don't use CVS, because there are commercial programs that do the same thing but better; but it's naive to suppose that professional coders for a company the size of Sony are not using version control software.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Tukash on October 27, 2004, 07:45:19 PM
I'm tired of hearing how getting 30 - 36 players isn't that hard, that it is a time lvl weapon that shouldn't be given too you.. blah, blah, blah.  I agree that it shouldn't be given away.  But it's obvious that alot of you don't realise what a casual player and/or a casual guild is capable of or the forces they can muster.  getting 30 people to show up from a small guild is almost impossible.  As the fight was, it would have still probably taken 4+ grps from my guild to do it.  We don't have anybody over 68, nobody is elly flagged, I have the most AA at 190 with a few others over 100, but the mast majority are under 100AA.  If we are lucky there are 12 lvl 60+ on at a time.  MOST the time there are 12ish online PERIOD, and some of those are lower level.  I can get more online if planned in advance, but we are a CASUAL guild, people have families, school, work, etc. and not every free moment is spent online.  Who cares if the final fight was done by one grp of non-casual players.  The 1.5 was supposed to be for the casual player.  This is a quote from one of the devs


QuoteThe epic 1.5 is the totem you receive.  This portion of the quest is designed so that you don't need to be in a large guild to obtain it.  So, even the casual playing beastlord will be able to do this quest with friends.

The epic 2.0 is another matter.  Without a lot of support and friends, there just isn't any way to obtain this weapon, which will be the absolute best for beastlords in EverQuest to date.

Yes I can get maybe 3 grps from my guild to help and a few friends from out side the guild to help, but they would have to bring some of their guild along to make it happen.  People I don't know, not friends, at that point my guild isn't doing it,, a bunch of strangers are doing it for me.

I do agree that other portions (the walrus, Dregmar, ME) could be made more difficult as those are almost all duable even by a casual player as they stand.  Make those fights require a grp and yes maybe the final fight did need to be tuned some, but pls remember that 30-36 players for a casual guild is alot or even 1/2 of there high level players.  So when you raiders out there say it's not that difficult to amass 30+ players look who the 1.5 was intended for (as quoted by a dev) and remember that it just a stepping stone for you to a higher achievement.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Aeshmal on October 27, 2004, 08:37:57 PM
I'll say this once again. It should not be possible to obtain a (slightly better than) Time level weapon at this point in the game with fewer than the forces suggested by Sony for this encounter. You are not entitled to your epic weapon. If you are in a small guild, casual or not, that's your own choice, based on how much time and effort you choose to put into the game. It should be very hard (not impossible, and it isn't) to achieve for the casual gamer. It should be an event of great and unusual significance to gather 6 groups of people for one fight. It probably shouldn't be the kind of thing that's easy to do often. It should be the kind of thing that you have to plan well in advance. That's part of why the quest is called an epic quest; because it's very difficult to complete for those people who will gain the most benefit from it.

Quotebut we are a CASUAL guild, people have families, school, work, etc. and not every free moment is spent online.
The vast majority of the people in my guild are over age 26. About 60% are married; about about a third have children. Some have several children over the age of 16. Almost every single one works or goes to school full time. We're in Qvic, and we're probably the third strongest guild on our server--only one guild is in Tacvi. Casual is not defined by what you do outside the game.

QuoteYes I can get maybe 3 grps from my guild to help and a few friends from out side the guild to help, but they would have to bring some of their guild along to make it happen. People I don't know, not friends, at that point my guild isn't doing it,, a bunch of strangers are doing it for me.
There is a lot of misunderstanding around the word "casual." It is my understanding that Sony generally uses it, and certainly used it in this case, to mean "non-raiding." To mean a player who does not have equipment of the Elemental or better variety. There are lots of players who play for hours every day but have sub-Elemental quality loot. Would we call them casual? Sure. The term "large guild" is likewise misleading. My guild has something like 110 members, 80 of which are active. 36 is not an unreasonable number for a weapon of this caliber.

Could Sony have been somewhat more specific in their use of terminology? Sure. But the Epic 1.5 is good enough that the forces required to obtain it are _more_ than reasonable. I'm sorry that it's difficult for you to get your Epic. It's a godly weapon, particularly for a non-raiding player. But it should, and does, require a lot of effort to obtain. I don't want to see that changed. The RVR in Omens is already on the easy side, particularly in the high-end game.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Taiglin on October 27, 2004, 08:45:41 PM
Tukash,

While I find myself in somewhat the same position as you as far as amassing the forces needed for the current version of the final fight, the thing that runs through my mind is the epic 1.5 isn't a right bestowed upon people just because we bought Omens. Them being in was one of the major selling points fer sure but just because they are there doesn't mean they should come automatically or without effort. The developers have also referenced the orginal epics in terms of the forces they used to take to get them. Advance two + years later and those encounters are trivial for a number of reasons.

Anyway, like I said the idea of trying to get enough folks given our relative gear is very daunting - especially with the whole 2 hours up 2 hours down thing. I think it would be much easier on us casuals if that component was taken away. Agree with you about how silly it is to go from one group(-) fights through 90% of this to what amounts to a brick wall.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Oneiromancer on October 27, 2004, 10:15:12 PM
Quote from: AeshmalIt should be an event of great and unusual significance to gather 6 groups of people for one fight. It probably shouldn't be the kind of thing that's easy to do often.

Which makes it all the more unfortunate when the Druid epic mob pops, or the Beastlord epic mob spawn person depops.  Having one of those happen to a casual guild person who somehow managed to get everyone together at one time...that would be pretty catastrophic and demoralizing, and possibly unrecoverable (depending on how they gathered the raid force).

It's kind of a moot point, assuming that the devs are intending on retuning the fight again.  It seems like they truly didn't mean to have the encounter be this much tougher, and perhaps if it is tuned back a bit it will still be tough but require a bit fewer people at least.

Game on,
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Kinal on October 27, 2004, 10:35:31 PM
QuoteAlso, I will promise you that Sony developers use a versioning system of some kind. I would geuss that they don't use CVS, because there are commercial programs that do the same thing but better; but it's naive to suppose that professional coders for a company the size of Sony are not using version control software.

Then they should look into other packages because whatever they are using now, sucks, quite frankly.  Test code gets rolled live far too often for it to be a anomoly.

QuoteBecause, speaking from a sysadmin position where I have to do things like that on occasion, rolling back to an older version of something like code isn't necessarily trivial. It's certainly doable, but it's usually a pain and it involves a bunch of staff time. In this case, it's probably not worth Sony's development time to roll back this one particular change immediately, when they could just wait for the next patch day.
I too am a sysadmin.  For a large state agency.  And you know what happens when I f*ck up?  I am required to FIX what I broke.  I am not allowed to say "Whoopsie!  I'll look into it" and leave it broken.

And the "wait for the next patch day" argument is not valid either since a subsequent patch day has come and gone and they still have not corrected their mistake.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: negrismorte on October 27, 2004, 10:46:42 PM
Quote from: Taiglin- especially with the whole 2 hours up 2 hours down thing. I think it would be much easier on us casuals if that component was taken away. Agree with you about how silly it is to go from one group(-) fights through 90% of this to what amounts to a brick wall.

This is the biggest and only real problem I have with the beast epic.  Every fight up to the DS girplan was an easy duo - trio event.  The DS fight was an easy 1 group fight.  Then, SUDDENLY, you need 35ish friends with pretty good gear to help you out.

There are a couple steps that could be increased in difficulty.  The end fight NEEDS the 2-hour portion removed so smaller guilds and unguilded can mass the needed forces.

I had a necro main for years and did the epic durring velious.  It took me nearly 1.5 real years to get it done.  That was in a pseudo raiding/family guild.  I can appreciate a challenge, but some things go a tad far.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Tigarri on October 28, 2004, 01:09:50 AM
QuoteThere is a lot of misunderstanding around the word "casual." It is my understanding that Sony generally uses it, and certainly used it in this case, to mean "non-raiding." To mean a player who does not have equipment of the Elemental or better variety. There are lots of players who play for hours every day but have sub-Elemental quality loot. Would we call them casual? Sure. The term "large guild" is likewise misleading. My guild has something like 110 members, 80 of which are active. 36 is not an unreasonable number for a weapon of this caliber.

Um...yeah. I would agree with that definition...non-raider...sub-elemental...

And those are exactly the players (REGARDLESS of playing time) that are INCAPABLE...Please read that again...INCAPABLE of obtaining it as is.

QuoteI'll say this once again. It should not be possible to obtain a (slightly better than) Time level weapon at this point in the game with fewer than the forces suggested by Sony for this encounter. You are not entitled to your epic weapon.

So...what exactly "entitles" you to your epic? I play 5 or so nights a week. I play 3-4 hours on most of those nights. I am NOT elemental equipped or enabled (though I am close.) We have 1 member in our guild who is elemental flagged. He logs on rarely. We usually have 5-6 players 60+ on a given night. At our peak times (which are completely random), we have 18ish.

Time doesn't entitle you?
Effort doesn't entitle you?
Money doesn't entitle you?

What does? The time and effort of 36 other people who you CANNOT get to come along and help you?

And I will not go to a raiding guild at this point in time for various reasons, including:

1) They aren't recruiting, or at least not "actively"
2) When they are recruiting, they don't want someone who fits the above profile
3) I will NOT be owned or controlled by someone I don't know who thinks they have the right to demand my login/password for backflagging when I'm not on (and who knows what else), demand I play specific hours, demand I do specific fights at specific times, etc.

Of course, I guess a leader of such a guild could just pick up the "bat-phone" and get the event tuned down within 12 hrs...am I bitter? Yeah. I am.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Felidae on October 28, 2004, 11:47:25 AM
I guess, part of what irks me is, that the 1.0 epic, that rocked for its time, was doable in a small family guild.  You may have had to call in some debts for a couple  battles but it was doable.  This one, which honestly I'm not as excited about having,  is harder to obtain though my guild is now quite established.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Aeshmal on October 28, 2004, 01:00:06 PM
QuoteSo...what exactly "entitles" you to your epic?
Not a damn thing. Nobody is entitled to their epic. To get your Epic 1.5, you need to be able to muster a force of a size suitable for the acquisition of a Time-caliber weapon and a second piece of Elemental quality loot. If you cannot do this, I don't think you should have your epic. Once you can muster this force, and it'll become easier to do so as levels and gear improve, even for small guilds, then perhaps you'll be able to achieve your goal.

My point is that it isn't Sony's responsibility to make Epic 1.5 atainable by anyone who's willing to put in the time. That isn't enough. That isn't epic, and it's not what was advertised. This is just like the complaints for Epic 1.0: if you couldn't muster a force suitable for killing Talendor or Venril Sathir, you couldn't get your epic. This isn't any different than any other quest requiring raid encounters; you're not entitled to the 14th incarnation of the Breakdown in Communications augment just because you personally put in time and effort. If you can't handle the encounters, you don't get the item. It's not Sony's responsibility to make the Epic attainable to every beastlord that wants it just because they paid for Omens.

QuoteI guess, part of what irks me is, that the 1.0 epic, that rocked for its time, was doable in a small family guild.
Beastlords are entirely unique in this respect. No other epic, upon release, was doable by the (relative, naturally times have changed) forces suggested for Epic 1.5. Upon release, only raiding guilds were even remotely capable of taking out Talendor or Severilious. Only raiding guilds had a chance to kill Venril Sathir. Now, more than three years later, those mobs are trivial for anyone to kill. Some beastlords can solo them. The beastlord epic 1.0 was absurdedly easy for the value of the reward; maybe that pampered us a bit for 1.5, which is still absurdedly easy for the reward given. There is no 36-person raid in existence that can procure a weapon the level of the Epic 1.5 for any class. Some guilds in Tacvi gear could probably do Time with 36, but who would want to?

Relatively speaking, Epic 1.5 is much easier for the casual player to obtain across all classes on average than Epic 1.0 was. I'm sorry if you don't agree with that, but it's true.

QuoteThen they should look into other packages because whatever they are using now, sucks, quite frankly. Test code gets rolled live far too often for it to be a anomoly.
See, now you're being unreasonable. Test code gets pushed because someone screws up and thinks it's supposed to be pushed, not because their versioning system sucks. I mean, really. When stuff goes wrong, it's because of poor testing and poor implementation, not because the code storage software somehow fouls up.

QuoteI too am a sysadmin. For a large state agency. And you know what happens when I f*ck up? I am required to FIX what I broke. I am not allowed to say "Whoopsie! I'll look into it" and leave it broken.
Again, you're missing the point. If a change goes live that can potentially screw up the game for a large subsection of the player base (say a patch breaks an important bard song like Chorus of Marr), then Sony will do an immediate patch to fix it. But it's not financially sound business practice to bring down a live service every time a problem is noted if bringing it down involves either:

1. Service outages for a large number of users

2. Excessive expense associated with an immediate fix for a minor problem.

I'll give you a real-world example. We just finished setting up an email system that uses an imap proxy package to interface between clients and the mail server. This morning, we discovered that one of the proxy instances, the one that deals with POPS connections, wasn't logging properly. It's an easy fix; a change to a configuration file and a service restart. However, restarting the service severs all incoming mail connections, which is unacceptable during production business hours. So we wait for a time when the change will have minimal user visibility.

Once again, it is a matter of degree. A matter of severity. Not Sony being crackpots who don't know how to roll back changes.

And finally,

QuoteWhich makes it all the more unfortunate when the Druid epic mob pops, or the Beastlord epic mob spawn person depops. Having one of those happen to a casual guild person who somehow managed to get everyone together at one time...that would be pretty catastrophic and demoralizing, and possibly unrecoverable (depending on how they gathered the raid force).
Yes. I agree. The two hour spawn window is sort of stupid, and ought to be changed. The Druid epic mob...well, that's sort of dumb, too. It wouldn't be so bad if the damn thing wasn't triggered by any dumbass druid happening to walk into the tunnels; as it is, however, the event should probably be changed to spawn somewhere else, or to not spawn if DDA is up.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Eatbugs on October 28, 2004, 03:37:54 PM
QuoteRelatively speaking, Epic 1.5 is much easier for the casual player to obtain across all classes on average than Epic 1.0 was. I'm sorry if you don't agree with that, but it's true.

Well, no, it's not.  To be "much easier for the casual player to obtain" they'd have to be doable as a casual player, and they're not.  I agree it's not unreasonable to require large raids to get a weapon as good as the 1.5 epics, but they should have said so from the start, not claimed (as they continue to claim) that these were intended for casual players.  

"Member of a raiding guild that can field 36 people on a couple of hours notice" does not equate with "casual player" in my mind.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Aeshmal on October 28, 2004, 04:17:10 PM
My point is, Epic 1.0 wasn't doable by the casual player either, not for a very long time after the epic quests were first released. This quest is relatively much easier than the original epic quests were.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Giledorm on October 28, 2004, 07:26:01 PM
Perhaps we could somehow get back on topic and quit the proverbial pissing contest?  hmmm?

Tastian, has there been any word on a possible patch date for the fixes?
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Kellaen on October 29, 2004, 03:39:39 AM
QuoteI just love how that if something goes live that benefits the players somehow (Sullon Zek-only loot on LDON vendors for example) the zones/servers are brought down immediately and the correction is made. But if something "accidentally" goes live that hurts the player, they "look into it" and fix it whenever they get around to it.
(http://anduran.customer.netspace.net.au/soebugpolicy.JPG)
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Taiglin on October 29, 2004, 05:30:32 AM
LoL
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Rhulan on October 29, 2004, 04:47:24 PM
Aeshmal...i'd just like to say your an idiot. You have made some valid points, but an idiot. if you read this whole thread you would realize that even time/god guilds are wiping on this. I'm in one such guild.

This event should not be as hard as taking on Coirnav or Xeg. When a time guild with approximately 30-40 people there are wiping. How the hell do you think a Casual player/guild is going to get it.

I'd also like to point out that Sony themselves have pointed out that the majority of their players are around, I believe, 46-60. That being said obvisiously the LARGER subset of people are being hurt by this accident. Like many casual players I've pretty much stopped asking my guild to try this fight since it's ridiculiously too hard.

The only possible plus I can find right now is that there are 4 other classes that have fights in Ruined City. Hopefully, I'll be able to get them to sweep by and get mine while they are in there doing others. But I can only hope.

Sony better have this fixed by end of next month, and thats being generous. Thanks have a good day.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Aeshmal on October 29, 2004, 06:13:58 PM
QuoteAeshmal...i'd just like to say your an idiot. You have made some valid points, but an idiot. if you read this whole thread you would realize that even time/god guilds are wiping on this. I'm in one such guild.
I'd just like to say that you're rather rude. Personal attacks are not tolerated on these boards, and you should know that.

I have done this encounter post-patch. It's very hard. It is nowhere near as difficult as Coirnav and Xegony, and for you to claim that it is you must either not have done it, or have done it in an intensely foolish fashion. I have done this encounter with 34 bazaar-geared people, myself, and one Time-level monk. I am also in a Time/GoD guild, and we wiped on this event (the upgraded version) our first try. We also wiped our second try, after killing four of the warders. We had 18 people present. If you bring 40 Time-geared people to this event and fail, you are doing it improperly and have nobody to blame but yourself or whoever set up the strats for the encounter.

I will say this once again. The encounter is hard, perhaps too hard, but it is doable by the forces suggested if they are well-led. The Warders can be split from the DDA; once that's done, this is almost a trivial fight. The split is very hard to do, but it is possible.

QuoteI'd also like to point out that Sony themselves have pointed out that the majority of their players are around, I believe, 46-60. That being said obvisiously the LARGER subset of people are being hurt by this accident.
If you're talking about player level here, you're pretty much completely off base. No level 60 should be able to acquire their Epic 1.5 with the help of other level 60s. To claim otherwise is ludicrous. Epic 1.5 should be a very real challenge for 5 to 6 groups of level 70 players with bazaar gear. It should not be easy. The subset argument I made earlier is very simple; even if every single beastlord above level 65 was affected by this problem and unable to complete their Epic 1.5 (and this is patently untrue), the total number of players affected is probably not large enough to justify an emergency patch.

I'm sorry you're upset. Really, I am. But I think asking Sony to spend a bunch of extra effort to patch this particular issue is ludicrous, and I think you're severely overestimating how many players are affected.

The bottom line is this: I have several beastlord friends in casual guilds. They have no Time gear, no Elemental gear. Two of them have their Epic 1.5. They got it by working together with other casual beastlords from other guilds; by getting 5, 6 small guilds to band together, they managed to complete this encounter. Maybe you can't do it in your own guild. Sorry, but tough. If you can't field 36 people for a fight, I don't think you're entitled to your Epic. Maybe you disagree. Sony is not obligated to make the Epic easily available to every beastlord above level 60 who wants it.

QuoteLike many casual players I've pretty much stopped asking my guild to try this fight since it's ridiculiously too hard.
Quoteif you read this whole thread you would realize that even time/god guilds are wiping on this. I'm in one such guild.
If you are in a Time and GoD enabled guild, chances are very high that you're not a casual player.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: zumu on October 29, 2004, 06:25:07 PM
I'll just cut and paste my reply to a similar post on the eqlive site.

the last raid isn't that bad man. You need 2 or 3 FD pullers. The warders and name corpse camp and they do not reset. Have your raid clear the east room and wait there, tight against the back wall. Have a SK pop HS and train DDA + warders out of the tunnel. After theyre out, the other pullers can start tagging name and fding. WIth a well coordinated team you will have the DDA solo pretty fast, just take the warders off into the zone. We left them at the zoneline /giggle. They arent tied or teathered anymore, just have an enormous aggro range, and like i said they corpse camp and dont reset, so once your pullers have em out there in the zone, they gonna stay there. It may take your monks / bards awhile to get them split, its really np takes 6 - 8 minutes to kill the DDA once he's split out from the warders. When you have DDA alone, he's pretty simple. Yes he hits hard, you'll want a defensive warr to tank. Yes he ae ramps, range fight him. Doesn't take time gear or 400 people, just some good pulling and the dicipline to range fight. If you insist on believing you'll never be able to do this fight... well then youre gonna be right. But im telling you for a fact that 28 people handled it pretty easy for me, no time / qvic gear. I beleive i was first on server to beat revamped DDA, frankly introducing an element of skill into what was a ridiculously easy zerg = great.

props to kazzil, frostwolf, motley and the other members of the PD pull team on kane bayle for making this fight that "time / god guilds wipe to" pretty dam easy.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Oneiromancer on October 29, 2004, 07:04:05 PM
Quote from: zumuWe left them at the zoneline /giggle.

That's horrible.  I really hope no one came upon them before they despawned.  Especially with their "enormous aggro range".

Game on,
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Xyrys on October 29, 2004, 07:56:51 PM
Since this so called nerf its even easier than before..  I did this fight for myself prior to this "Nerf" or whatever you want to call it..  When I did it you could not split them, had to either kite them or offtank them, had to worry about their adding even when kited and the fact they were nasty melee..

We aren't an EP guild..  Best gear is Ornate..  We did this fight with 18 before patch..  Had 24 after because we were worried about the nerf yet I consider it overkill..

After patch its even easier to do..  You can split the adds off the named, you don't have to worry about kiting anything and now his pitiful DPS is druid healable..

Why are you complaining ???

Heres an idea..  Move raid to prep area as normal..  Pull the roaming kyvs etc..  Then move raid back down corridor towards zonein valley..  Get a druid to agro the lot and pull them up and north and then up over bridge while invised then insta evac..  Named stops to cast and will most likely be standing near the junction..   If you want to be extra careful re-agro the adds and pull them further away while invis and evac again..   Since none of them see invis..

Pull and kill..

Don't need monks..

Don't need Time/GOD guild..

Think outside the box guys..

Anybody who tells you you need 30 Time geared people is yanking your chain..  2-3 grps of non EP toons is plenty..

Mind you I will admit we wiped first attempt because we tried to do the event using the old strat we had successfully used before..  But..  To say this is out of the range of casual players is crazy..  Its the easiest Epic by far..

Far far easier than say the Wizard one, or Mage one..

In difficulty I would rate the epics (that I have had contact with) in the following order:
(Easiest to hardest)

Beastlord
Druid
Shaman
Necro
Warrior
Wizard

So far..
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Kinal on October 29, 2004, 07:57:36 PM
Quote from: AeshmalI'm sorry you're upset. Really, I am. But I think asking Sony to spend a bunch of extra effort to patch this particular issue is ludicrous, and I think you're severely overestimating how many players are affected.

What's to patch?  This is what I have been saying all along.  They accidentally  rolled out test code.  If, as you say, they have proper versioning software, then all the need to do is roll back the code.   With competent people, this should take no more than 15 minutes.  You make it sound like they need to recode the entire zone or something to fix this.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Felidae on October 29, 2004, 08:05:26 PM
To all the "it so easy now posts..."   As with the CT scout, everyone said it was so easy. I'm not an particularly good player, but I'm not so very bad either, and that "so easy" event cost me death after death.

And leaving the warders at the zone in is horrid BTW.  Kite the HoH GY in your free time?
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Aeshmal on October 29, 2004, 08:18:35 PM
QuoteIf, as you say, they have proper versioning software, then all the need to do is roll back the code.
It is rarely that simple. First of all, there's no guarantee that this segment of code is as self-contained as you seem to think it is. It's entirely possible that it affects many things that you don't know about; code, particularly the spaghetti code of Everquest, often does that.

Second, it's not a simple matter of rolling back code. In the very best case, if only RCoD is affected, it's a matter of shuttong that zone down on every production server, pushing the update, testing to make sure the update took properly, then re-enabling the zone. Bringing zones down is not a trivial process; that's why they don't do it very much.

I really think you're talking about things that you can't possibly understand completely, since you're not a developer for Sony.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: zumu on October 29, 2004, 10:18:44 PM
Quote from: Oneiromancer
Quote from: zumuWe left them at the zoneline /giggle.

That's horrible.  I really hope no one came upon them before they despawned.  Especially with their "enormous aggro range".

Game on,

no, there were no bodies at zone, i checked. dunno if anyone got a nasty surprise, but if they did it wasnt fatal. so i can giggle if i wanna )
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Kinal on October 30, 2004, 12:46:06 AM
Quotetesting to make sure the update took properly

LOL.  Riiiiiiiiight.

If they tested thier updates, this code would not and could not have made it live.

And you're right, I don't work for Sony, but with all your excuses on their behalf I'm starting to suspect you might.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Moogasourus on October 30, 2004, 02:46:15 AM
Soooo fellow Bst's   Has anyone done this event recently and acually have an update on the final battle .... I have read a few posts in this section but most of it seems to be rants .. no disrespect for any of you but i am about ready to schedule my final battle and would like to know exactly what kinda force is needed.  Thx ahead of time

Moog
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Oneiromancer on October 30, 2004, 07:41:13 AM
Scroll up, two posts on this page seem to have decent strategies post-patch.

Game on,
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Anex on October 30, 2004, 04:21:14 PM
Take this for what it's worth. I did mine, after the supposed nerf, a few weeks ago. After trying to TM and wiping to it once, I came up with a strat that involves everyone dying. It worked just fine and I have my epic.

Here's what we did:

We only had 3 groups (not even 18 people) of EP geared players. (No Kidding here)

I instructed our warrior to pull them all (named and adds) to the the wall  on the left and AE taunt and go Furious disc. That allowed him to have all the agro and be invulnerable for a few seconds.

Once furious dropped he went defensive and the 3 clerics we had would now heal him. After the first few heals landed the clerics went down, naturally.

Meanwhile I had everyone else burning named down from the start. Had couple monks, rogues, rangers, and us beasts all disc right off. Of course the wizards were happy to be able to go balls to the wall from jump. :twisted:

Don't forget the necros here either, not only did they bang out the dps but were FD'd as soon as named dropped to rez me to loot.

Everyone but a necro and the 2 monks died on this fight, as was my plan. I almost lived the whole fight but died at 0% to one of the warders. I was SO ready to ninja that thing.:? The important thing is the named was dead, the treasure chest popped and I had my new shiny totem pole.

A few things to note:

The warders do not see invis which makes CR's easy after the wipe. So don't even bother trying to mess with them. They'll despawn once the hour is up. Except maybe have the monks FD them in a corner away from named corpse so you can loot in peace if you died before the named did.

I wish I had 2 warriors for this, ideally 3. If I had, the next one could AE taunt and do the same thing as the first, and so on. At least to AE taunt the adds off of the clerics once they start healing MA. Making sure that eveyone stays up as long as possible.

If you decide to try my method, you might want to park a bot cleric or something right outside just incase everyone bites it.

I know this is a seemingly cruel way to do it. I mean, intentionally wiping your guildies, and friends. But I think everyone is more bumbed when you wipe and don't get what you came for. Just don't tell everyone your intentions if you think they won't go along with it.  :twisted:

After personally watching Time+ geared people wiping to this with 30 or more toons, I think the price I paid with my guildies bodies was more than worth it. Just make sure you kill this guy as fast as possible. DPS DPS DPS!
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Eatbugs on October 30, 2004, 05:19:40 PM
Another "intentional wipe" method (I think it was mentioned in this thread, not sure) is to take out one or two warders at a time, then rez and repeat.  The warders still have fairly low hp, so if you don't have quite enough dps along to take out the Discordling Dark Animist before wiping that might work better.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Aeshmal on October 31, 2004, 07:15:59 PM
You would need a lot of DPS to burn the DDA down before the Warders slaughtered your raid. I would suggest offtanking him (he doesn't really hit very hard) and burning the warders one by one. They have less than 40k hp.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Vidyne on October 31, 2004, 10:18:33 PM
A "few" weeks ago would place it before the MAJOR nerf... yet after the minor nerf.

Yes, for the minor nerfed version, you could burn all you wanted on DDA and hed die quickly.

For the Major nerfed version, youd need something like 10 necros, 10 wizards, 10 SKs, a few magi and other nukers to burn him before his adds destroyed you.


His HP was increased, 4x Ive heard.  you arent burning that without a huge force.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: EnemyTheBeastlord on November 01, 2004, 09:22:05 AM
I am appauled, no no shocked even! That SOE has made this fight difficult, as a matter of fact I'm pretty mad that they didn't put the epic on a vendor on each contenent (you know just incase I didn't have all the expansions).

Ok now to be serious, I am in a Euro guild (I live in the states) and at night when I play theres about 3 people on if I'm lucky.  I did my epic 1.0 AND my epic 1.5 with pick-up raids, I didn't have some "close nit family" to turn to for help.  So I have zero sympathy for people whining that they have a max of 18 people on in their guild at any given time.

I agree whole heartedly with what Aeshmal has been saying, if you can't make the effort you DON'T deserve it...period. "Ohhh well I have real life stuff, I can't spend every minute in EQ blah blah blah.  I've been hearing that too, well I'm a full time student and work I still managed to find people to scrape together.  This weapon is a 26/22 205hp weapon that you can get with less people then it takes to kill Rallos Zek and get EP access, risk vs reward is already out of whack in my opinion.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Maylian on November 01, 2004, 08:02:22 PM
I whole heartedly agree, I think I was possibly server first to do my final fight post nerf and I'd personally feel no sense of achievment if it had been as easy as the other BL had it in my guild. Honestly what kind of epic requires about 9-12 people to do it?

I posted my strat on this site and Alla's and hope that it helped other BL's achieve and gain their epic. Now looking at epic 2 I don't know if I'll even ask my guild to consider some of those events  :lol:
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: VoS Jamond on November 02, 2004, 04:31:35 AM
Some questions on the final fight:

1.  What is the range on the 1000 AE DD w/100 mana drain DoT?

2.  Can the AE DoT be cured?  If so, with what?

3.  Does the DDA Enrage?

Thanks in advance!
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Eatbugs on November 02, 2004, 11:59:59 PM
1) I don't think it's possible to be out of range of the AE if you're on the hate list.

2) It can be cured with one cast of Remove Greater Curse.

3) Pretty sure he does, but then I tend to assume all raid mobs do.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: VoS Jamond on November 03, 2004, 01:57:12 AM
So what you're saying is that there is no way for the casters and healers to avoid the AE?
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: negrismorte on November 03, 2004, 02:20:40 AM
Quote from: VoS JamondSo what you're saying is that there is no way for the casters and healers to avoid the AE?

Below is the effect from Lucy.  The range is 200' and hits all on hatelist.  If the 45 sec recast time is correct, maybe you could have a couple healers wait until after the first AE, then heal.  But, based off the description, it doesn't seem like that bad of an effect.  Also, it can be reflected so give that DDA some of his own medicine hehe

Quote from: LucyDiscordant Feedback
Classes:
None  
Description:
1: Decrease HP when cast by 1000
2: Decrease Mana by 100 per tick
3: Decrease Hitpoints by 100 per tick
4: Decrease Endurance by 150 per tick
5: Decrease Endurance by 100
6: Increase Curse Counter by 16

Monsters with this ability
Girplan Scavenger
Viarglug
Discordling Dark Animist

Details: Raw Spell Data, Lucy Spell View
Spell Type: Detrimental Skill: Evocation
Mana: 0 Target Type: NPC Hatelist
Casting Time: Instant Duration: 1 ticks @L1 to 6 ticks @L10
Recast Time: 45 Resist: Chromatic (-300)
Fizzle Time: 0.00 Range to target: 0
AE Radius: 200 Interruptable: Yes
Location: Any Time of Day: Any
Reflectable: Yes
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Gremkin on November 03, 2004, 01:26:09 PM
Managed to get this fight done last night.

Splitting the DDA from his adds did not turn out to be as simple as I had anticipated.  My original plan was to have a bard pull the room and kite them past a monk, who would tag the DDA and bring him to raid.  I'm not sure how the bard got his aggro, if it was via AE song or just prox aggro, but when the monk tagged the DDA, the warders followed instead of staying with the bard.

Anyway it took awhile, but between the monks and bards on the raid, they finally managed to get the DDA with only 2 warders to camp (which was in the east room up the stairs from the DDA).  We offtanked the warders and burned down the DDA... the AE ramp was for about 750-800 so meleeing him was not all that bad (for us anyway).

As for force used... I had just over 40 people.  My guild has been in the elementals for awhile now, so many people have close to a full set of their elem armor.  We did have numerous non-elemental recruits with us, but the tanks were definitely ele geared.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Maraketha on November 03, 2004, 05:19:40 PM
We tried this event for the second time last night with about 4 groups.  We didn't really have the tankage needed to go full force and off tank Warders and the DDA, so we tried the spliting technique.

For some reason, no matter how hard our great Monks tried, we couldn't get the Warders without the DDA.  We could split them no problem, but as soon as we'd get a Warder separated and heading up the ramp, the others would bolt at us.  We weren't too keen on training them out of the caves and into the open as there were about 45 other people in the zone xp-ing.  

In the end we conceeded after wiping once only.  I didn't feel like putting my friends through a few more pointless deaths by swarming one Warder at a time and whittling them down.  We're heading back again tonight before our Ikkinz raid so we can be assured the numbers to throw at these guys.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Aeshmal on November 03, 2004, 10:10:02 PM
The assist range on these mobs is enormous. You cannot succesfully split them in the tunnels; you must use the vast expanse of the middle part of the zone to do so. Get them FAR FAR away.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: TheOriginalGronker on November 04, 2004, 04:49:05 PM
Quote from: MarakethaWe weren't too keen on training them out of the caves and into the open as there were about 45 other people in the zone xp-ing.  

In the end we conceeded after wiping once only.

If I ever see 45 people in that zone I'm asking them to help out for a few minutes or else I'll be training those warders around the zone trying to split them anyways ...   they'll help one way or another :wink:
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Maraketha on November 04, 2004, 07:52:03 PM
Our guild, as well as many others on my server, sometimes has a problem keeping people around after raids to help out on these large scale epic fights.  Our guild logged on last night thinking it was Ikkinz time, and our fabulous guild leader pulled a switch and had us all head to the Ruined City for my epic fight.

We had a full raid force of approximately 68 Time geared people, maybe more.  We pulled off the Druid and Ranger epic fights while we waited on Erana Ferral to show herself, then we hit the Dark Animist and his Warders with all we had.  It was total overkill, but it got the job done.  

We off-tanked the Warders and DDA, beating down 1 Warder at a time and then focusing on the DDA.

Hello epic  :D

Best of luck to all of you who have this event upcoming.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Rhugan on November 04, 2004, 08:15:05 PM
Did something change with this event in the last couple of days?  I was in RCoD watching this guild attempt the final fight and when they tried to pull the mobs outside they would leash back into the room.  Does this mean that the mobs cannot be slit any more because they are leashed to the DA room?  Anyone else see this before?
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Eatbugs on November 04, 2004, 08:22:53 PM
Sure you weren't watching the Druid epic fight in the same room?
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Rhugan on November 05, 2004, 03:50:44 PM
Not unless the druid epic envoled pulling the DA and his warders.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Jikaabx on November 08, 2004, 11:09:40 PM
QuoteI can't think of an epic 1.5 fight for any class that's this tough.
Try the Girplan Guardian or the Elite Sun Reveant for the Wizard 1.5 then.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Eatbugs on November 09, 2004, 05:09:47 AM
Girplan Guardian is definitely tougher.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Vidyne on November 14, 2004, 08:23:48 PM
Any news on a change for this?

Time guild I have some friends in last night nearly wiped to 3rd version(live servers) with 31 people.

They were able to kill all 5 warders and simply ran out of mana on DDA with 24 peeps alive and werent able to kill him before MT died from no heals and some of the melee too.

Based on their larger mana pools and how fast they ran out, they estimate the dot is now 300-400/tick, NOT 100/tick.

Theyve completely mowed over lots of other 1.5s with 30 people(besides cleric of course).

They regroup, rezzed, and were able to burn him down the second time, but still took some loses.

Yet some beastlords who did the original fight that was frigging cake...(when max hit was 800, they only doubled, and were FULLY slowable and DIDNT summon)
still say this is the easiest fight since a PoJ trial.
Just tired of it.
If .... they wipe to this encounter and then still take some losses with DDA just solo... then yes I think this fight is a BIT hard.

They were NOT able to split him....
No matter how far they pulled, the warders WARPED to him.

So Im hoping Erana's timer gets destroyed or this fight is nerfed.

Between her timer, and how hard the fight is in its current form... its impossible for me.

Is the encounter itself doable by me?  Yes I can pull together a force large enough to take it probably.

Can I pull together that force AND get it to RCoD before she despawns.
No.... sorry, but no.

The only force I can get there before she is down is 24, maybe 30 tops.

Thats simply not enough so....   putting my epic on hold for now.
Its simply too hard to get 45+ there to do it before she despawns.

For raiding guilds.... and servers where everyone on the server is time flagged/geared, even guildless players and Quarm is done by open raid....  I know you might be able to get the people for it... but without being able to split him...
its just impossible.

Wanted to post this for a long time.
But everytime id write it... Id think to myself... it wasnt worth putting into text.

My opinion on other's opinions and how our Epic 1.5 fight is atm.
/rant off

Sorry... just cant keep it bottled anymore.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Aeshmal on November 15, 2004, 02:46:05 PM
If you can't get people there on an hour's notice, camp the NPC. Find her when she's up, wait for her to despawn. You then have 2 hours to gather your forces. This is not a difficult thing to do, it's just time-consuming and sort of silly.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Vidyne on November 15, 2004, 06:10:31 PM
Have camped it both times I did it.

Have started about 30min after the despawn to gather forces.
Was able to get 3 1/2 groups from guild both times.

Was able to swing only 2-3 friends both times because they are always raiding and never can come to other things.

Most of my friends had said if you had told me earlier today, like.... 4 hours ago, I coulda come.  Thats just not possible with her timer.
I had told them I was doing it that night, but couldnt set a time.

I dont really want the fight nerfed as much.

I want the timer gone though.

Thats the part thats truely eating me.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: zumu on November 18, 2004, 03:54:47 AM
Quote from: VidyneHave camped it both times I did it.

Have started about 30min after the despawn to gather forces.
Was able to get 3 1/2 groups from guild both times.

Was able to swing only 2-3 friends both times because they are always raiding and never can come to other things.

Most of my friends had said if you had told me earlier today, like.... 4 hours ago, I coulda come.  Thats just not possible with her timer.
I had told them I was doing it that night, but couldnt set a time.

I dont really want the fight nerfed as much.

I want the timer gone though.

Thats the part thats truely eating me.

do your turnin early, get another cloak, tell people the 4 hours or whatever in advance "ok, erana will be popping at 630" problem solved. yes im aware some people dont like to render the beast / druid fight unavailable for a whole entire hour. omg boohoo. no i dont care, call the waaambulance.
Title: Update on final fight
Post by: Latang on December 06, 2004, 07:39:50 AM
Omg waaambulance, rofl. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Title: Re: Update on final fight
Post by: TabarQuell on February 13, 2005, 11:12:24 PM
Finished the fight today with about 28 people

The DDA hits for about 1100 and his pets for 750, the DDA AE rampages, as well as has the Discordand Feedback [HP/Mana DoT](-300 Prism/Chrom) , and Targeted AoE Root (-200 MR).

The warders can be split from the DDA but you do need quite a bit of room, so use the main area of the zone.
This strategy sounds like a good one, but we didn't have monks so we couldn't use it.
http://www.beastlords.org/forums/index.php?topic=4654.0

After finishing the Druid 1.5 fight, we moved the raid to right outside the tunnels, and had two monks try to split the warders, for a small portion we were able to get the Tiger and another warder alone, after a minute the DDA and other warders came by, we wiped but took down the tiger.
Recovered raid at zone in and monks pull the DDA and gator to the ZL as they were somewhat separated from the bear, wolf and scaled wolf, all focused on the DDA and took him down after about 2 and a half minutes.  Details are sketchy to me as i forgot most of them already  :-P

And yay on my 1.5.

Tabar Amastacia 70 Beastlord on Quellious
Title: Re: Update on final fight
Post by: Mrcoolies on May 31, 2005, 05:38:06 PM
Hi
Just a few questions, are the pets classed as summoned? if s can they be banished? Does green pet pull work on DDA or hes pets? and with the new veteran reward that maxes all stats and resists is it possible to resist the mana/hp DoT that DDA casts.

Many Thanks
Title: Re: Update on final fight
Post by: Dreead on May 31, 2005, 09:17:58 PM
Quote from: Mrcoolies on May 31, 2005, 05:38:06 PM
Hi
Just a few questions, are the pets classed as summoned? if s can they be banished? Does green pet pull work on DDA or hes pets? and with the new veteran reward that maxes all stats and resists is it possible to resist the mana/hp DoT that DDA casts.

Many Thanks

I just did this fight. Green pet pull will probably work but to an extent. Once anything besides the pet has agro meaning a player the other mobs will assist and run after you unless you are far far away. Hoping your pet even makes it there. Pet pulling the DDA would be immpossible as DDA would just slaughter it.

I couldn't tell you if the pets are considered summoned. But I think the wizzard spell that banishs only works  up to a certain level of mobs, think its 56. I would imagine the warders would be too high to be banished. BUt I'm not positive.

I used to vet reward on me and my druid. Both didn't resist it with 549 to all resists. I don't think it is resistable and if it is I didn't notice it was resisted.
Title: Re: Update on final fight
Post by: Mrcoolies on June 01, 2005, 11:02:02 AM
Cool Thanks

I know my mage as a decent banish spell that uses a star ruby not sure what the lvl limit is on that will check.
Title: Re: Update on final fight
Post by: Bodegah on June 01, 2005, 02:15:46 PM
I do not think banish works due to level, but since the mobs do not return to home and stay where pulled, I have heard that bards can high sun them back to bind.  Not positive but let me know :)
Title: Re: Update on final fight
Post by: Mrcoolies on June 03, 2005, 10:39:48 PM
Hi
I just tried this encounter tonight and we couldnt split the dda away from the warders for love nor money. We had loads of FD pullers and a 70lvl bard who couldnt get highsun to land.

Any tips iam realy getting frustrated now, or is there a pulling team I could hire on bertox hehe
Title: Re: Update on final fight
Post by: Shieara on June 04, 2005, 06:34:01 PM
I wish I had tips for pulling them  :|

I was lucky enough to get my 1.5 before the...err...adjustment, but we tried it the other night for a friend.  Our monk+bard team never could get them split up.  The monk kept dying, not sure what the deal was.    We ended up just offtanking them and burning the Warder's down one by one.  We killed three before we wiped but were able to go back and finish the job.  Kind of sad that a suicide zerg was required but everyone had a blast so I guess I can't complain too much.
Title: Re: Update on final fight
Post by: Cataria on June 11, 2005, 10:25:49 AM
(See thread below for excellently written strategy on this fight)

It's still definitely possible to split DDA away from warders. I would suggest having the bard pull all 6 while the FD class tags DDA and brings him straight to raid, FD-ing at raid to clear aggro. Bard can then haul warders miles away, fade and leave them standing around staring at the stars while the rest of the raid falls on DDA and makes mincemeat of it =)

Title: Re: Update on final fight
Post by: Dankmann-The_Rathe on July 13, 2005, 04:56:47 AM
Dropped tonight  july 12th 2005.. only 22 of. we rushed the room and killed the adds first then DDA..took no time..easy fight all level 70 time geared and better..
chest dropped a belt frocity 1 i think it was..130ish hps .cant remember the rest
Title: Re: Update on final fight
Post by: Shieara on July 31, 2005, 10:36:44 PM
We just did the fight last night and found a really good strategy for us.  We had ~24 people of various gear levels.  I hadn't done one in a long time since I got my epic 1.5 before the changes to the fight.

What we did:
1.  Got to the zone and cleared the valley in to the room he pops in.
2.  Popped the event
3.  Had a monk drag them out to sort of near the raid.  We were parked in the valley.
4.  Had a rogue go and pre-target all warders and DDA.
5.  We had basically every melee on the raid tanking one of them.  Use monks/bst and their defensive disc to help on damage from  warders.
6.  Engaged.  We cornered DDA and fought the rest  just in the valley.
7.  Had all dps focus on one warder while bards focused on High Sunning one of the other warders (while it is being offtanked).   
     Have debuffers assigned to help the bard.
8.  In this way we eliminated the warders one at a time very quickly.
9.  All dps and damage on DDA for the win.

We never could split them though we did try.  The bard had no issues high sunning *all* of the warders as long as the OT had aggro established so that the bard didn't get mobbed and eaten.  Anyways it worked for us.
Title: Re: Update on final fight
Post by: Nusa on August 01, 2005, 03:50:49 AM
Our strategy is the old classic, but we always have more people than we need:

1) move raid to spawn hallway outside room
2) clear spawns in room
3) pop encounter
4) get pretargets for the six tanks (5 OT's and your best tank on the named).
5) Charge! pop discs, burn the named down.
6) finish off the warders

The only time we had a real challenge was when someone popped the druid epic mob while we were doing the beast one.
Title: Re: Update on final fight
Post by: Tukash on August 14, 2005, 06:43:18 PM
Completed this last night with 4 Groups + a cpl people.  Gear was all a mix, 3 or 4 were elly geared.  We started off trying to split because our bard was late and I had to trigger the DDA or wait another 2 hrs.  Splitting didn't work, our bard showed and tried highsunning out in the open area, with no success, then DDA and warders despawned :( .  We then moved on and did druid mob, I then spawned DDA again.. tried highsun strat once again with bard dying horribly LOL.  We then decided to just try offtanking.  Pre-assigned tanks to warders, pulled all to the zone so DDA could be pinned.   All DPS was on DDA, bard highsunned the warders with no problem once they were engaged by a tank as someone mentioned in a previous post.  DDA went down with no deaths except for the puller who got rooted and steamrolled LOL.

Looking back if I do the fight again for someone: 
- Have a bard
- have enough to offtank warders for a short time
- clear tunnels
- warn zone
- pull all to zoneline, all casters in cubby left of zoneline to avoid AE ramp, pin DDA in cubby opposite of zoneline
- Only one off tank on each warder.. everybody else on DDA.
- have bard Highsun warders once they are engaged (it didn't take long at all for all to get highsunned,  10 or 15 secs maybe?? at least it seem that quick, may have been longer)
- Take down the DDA :) ... The whole fight, once they were at zoneline, was under 2 mins probably.

Now if you have the gear and numbers to offtank the whole time, go for it.  This worked great for us, a raid that was mostly pre-elly geared.
Title: Re: Update on final fight
Post by: Mrcoolies on August 29, 2005, 11:36:52 AM
Hi
I finally nailed this sucker yesterday weee.
I ended up with about 28 people of various classes and we burned him down in about 1 min.

For the pull team we had a monk/bard/necro and me hehe,  we pulled DDA and hes warders out into the course way. Monk pulled all of them to just outside the tunnel leading into where raid was waiting and fd. I invised and ran behind the warders and nuked the rear mob and ran up the course way. I 2 box a mage so has Iam running I CoH myself back then invised and ran back....rinse repeat about 4 times has I started running the monk would stand up and agro DDA and after about 5 times this tactic paided off.

Well Iam glad this is over and its taken me months to finish this final fight. Good luck
Title: Re: Update on final fight
Post by: felinefury on October 25, 2005, 09:17:47 AM
grats Mrc :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Update on final fight
Post by: Utqnia on December 30, 2005, 02:04:26 PM
Cant you just get a necro low level dot the DDA, FD, COH, stand up at raid?

I would imagine that this would get the DDA to warp or run to the necro, with no other aggro, he pops necro FD, raid kills ?
Title: Re: Update on final fight
Post by: Gwynder on January 29, 2006, 02:09:49 AM
please read my post on epic 1.5 strat for DDA - much easier then some of the problems with raid you have posted here

Gwynder Lifesaviour
70 Wood Elf Ranger
Resilience
Erollisi Marr
Title: Re: Update on final fight
Post by: Zarkin on October 13, 2006, 09:37:36 PM
Has anyone tried the final fight since TSS went live?  I have been told the DDA is unsplittable from his goons and they all "have" to be offtanked.  Anyone have a confirmation on this?
Title: Re: Update on final fight
Post by: Timberghost on October 16, 2006, 04:44:59 PM
When I did mine, which was back before TSS, they all had to be offtanked, but they're whimps.  This is probably the easiest final fight out there.  Just put any decent tank on the big guy and even mediocre tanks on the pets.

Guy you hail is under the bridge to the left of the zone in.  Set up the raid at the spawn point, while you go and get set to turn in the cloak.  WHen they're all set and know which pet they're gonna TM (tiger, wolf, scaled wolf, gator, etc.), do your turn in and then CoH over to the raid.  MObs spawn as soon as you turn in.

BTW when I got my drop, the turn in NPC to wrap it had despawned.  Just sit there under the bridge and relax for an hour or two and he respawns.  Did the turn in, got back the wrapped one and turned in at Shar Vahl for my 1.5.  Easy.

Ours has to be one of the easiest 1.5 final battles out there, and the one before it is even easier.  We single grouped the second to last battle.   
Title: Re: Update on final fight
Post by: Sjgvd on October 18, 2006, 01:10:15 PM
I can confirm that DDA can still be single pulled. Bard using Highsun got him alone last night. Group of 8 was more than enough, 2 were boxed, bard only used for pulling.
Title: Re: Update on final fight
Post by: Vidyne on October 18, 2006, 09:16:59 PM
The pets are MPG-lvl mobs.
They hit for 990, mitigate slow to partial, immune to snare/root/mez  if memory serves, and randomly rampage or flurry.
He hits for 1550~ , aoe rampages, has a 1kdd, 100hp/mana/end a tick dot every 45 or 60 sec.
He has 600k+ hp
They have 60k+ hp
If pets come, burn the pets... if pets dont come.. burn him.
This could change depending on dps to healing to tanking sliding scale.
But the pets literally die in seconds and frees up additional healers.
At 75 this should be a bit easier.

This info from a month or so ago.. unsure of any changes.
Title: Re: Update on final fight
Post by: SynidarNC on December 17, 2006, 04:46:48 PM
I just did the final fight last night. We had a group consisting of Me, another 75 Beastlord, a 74 Necro, a 70 Druid, a 75 Cleric who was being boxed by our Tank, a 75 SK. After our first pull of the mob and warders to zone line where the SK failed the feign and died, they were corpse camping the SK, another 75 SK who was nearby offered to help. We rezzed our tank then the other SK aggroed the group of mobs and pulled away while our SK tagged the DDA and brought him back. The other SK feigned after getting far away. We then had the DDA alone and at the zone line. It was a fairly tough fight but we were able to kill him, I looted, then went back and waited for Elana to respawn, turned in the totem, origined to Shar Vahl, turned the wrapped totem in to Muada and got my 5 AA's and my brand new weapon.
Title: Re: Update on final fight
Post by: dainfrol on December 17, 2006, 05:34:59 PM
Quote from: SynidarNC on December 17, 2006, 04:46:48 PM
I just did the final fight last night. We had a group consisting of Me, another 75 Beastlord, a 74 Necro, a 70 Druid, a 75 Cleric who was being boxed by our Tank, a 75 SK. After our first pull of the mob and warders to zone line where the SK failed the feign and died, they were corpse camping the SK, another 75 SK who was nearby offered to help. We rezzed our tank then the other SK aggroed the group of mobs and pulled away while our SK tagged the DDA and brought him back. The other SK feigned after getting far away. We then had the DDA alone and at the zone line. It was a fairly tough fight but we were able to kill him, I looted, then went back and waited for Elana to respawn, turned in the totem, origined to Shar Vahl, turned the wrapped totem in to Muada and got my 5 AA's and my brand new weapon.
gratz on your 1.5.  I'm still waiting for enough people to be to do mine.