I've been playing EQ2 beta since late July. Thought I would let you all know who it's for.
EQ2 if for groupers. If you don't want to get into a group of 4 or more people, 99% of the meaningfull content after lvl 20 you will not be able to do.
You make be able to find mobs to solo, but you won't be able to finish class quests, item quests, access quests or even to get into some of the zones.
EQ2 is LESS for soloers and casual players than EQLive. The game is going to have fewer people playing it than SWG, and probably fewer than EQLive also.
QuoteThe game is going to have fewer people playing it than SWG, and probably fewer than EQLive also.
So you can see the future? Wow, must be cool. And I doubt EQ2 will have fewer people playing it when EQLive is dead in a couple of years. /boggle
Quote from: VoS JamondQuoteThe game is going to have fewer people playing it than SWG, and probably fewer than EQLive also.
So you can see the future? Wow, must be cool. And I doubt EQ2 will have fewer people playing it when EQLive is dead in a couple of years. /boggle
It really has nothing to do with seeing into the future. EQII is a radically "different" game. I played in the beta. I didn't like it. Its not as solo friendly as SOE portrays it to be, nor is it as casual as EQLive and some other games. The depth of the content is severely lacking, as well as the immersion that drew so many to EQLive. I wish SOE luck with it, but I have my own doubts about its long term success.
The quests are nothing more than simple tasks hired out for menial rewards. Kill 10 X-mob and get a shiny piece of silver. Deliver X-supplies to random_npc_23 and get a piece of lowbie armor thats likely crappier than the junk you're wearing. The only "real" quests are the class specific ones.
Combat is horrid and clunky. Every mob employs the same set of scripted AI actions, with little variation or randomness. Linked mobs totally destroy any tactical decisions before the encounter. 4 mobs linked together? No problem, they're all coming. Maximum damage has replaced the need for any real tactics. If you have good gear, you can beat the encounter.
I could see a player reaching max level. Unquestionably. But would they want to do all the same "quests", and kill all the same mobs, for the life of a second character? I doubt it. I definitely wouldn't. I'll likely shelf the game and head for something else. At least until they expand the game. But then i'll only play the expansion out once as well. I still doubt i'd want to do the whole thing again.
I remember players proclaiming the death of EQLive right after RoK hit the shelves. Heh, funny how that worked out eh? :)
Anyone remember when they came out with Ultima online II? It bombed so bad it didnt last 60 days?
Anyways I dont think EQ II will bomb, but I dont think you will see EQLive end in a couple of years. With more and more mmo games coming out, companys will have to lower the expectation for subscriber numbers. They just wont be enough market share for every game. All the games currently on the market(I include WOW and EQII) will lose current subscribers to the "new" game. So basically you will have people play between 100 MMO(within the next 5 years), I think there are about 20-30 currently on the market.It will divide all of the MMO population between alot more games. Except during a release of a new game when their subscriber numbers will be high upon release and level out over time(or the next new hyped release). Anyways I think EQLive will be around for another decade. Utlima online has already been around for 11 years, I am pretty sure. As has been said "Originals always live longer"
EQII is for a different crowd, with the new HO's its much easier to solo. even con solo mobs are easy now. I dont think the game is ready to be released on the Nov 8 date everyone is taking about. People will not be happy some of the problems. However, if people dont mind the current issues and the style of gameplay they will enjoy it. I however will not be playing it since I dont like...
XP Shared debt
Shard recovery
Locked encounters
Merchant/crafting system
plus a number of things, that I wont go into now. Maybe later
No Idea on the high end game since no one has been yet(Raid stuff)
Although this might have changed since I havent"tested"in a couple of weeks.
Needing a high end machine for decent FPS, you can play with a mid machine also. I would highly recommend 1GB Ram for any machine.
The thing I did like were the 2hander animations, very sweet. Bad side..everyone else has them same ones as a monk/brusier.
If anybody is interested in my opinion on this game let me know, I just dont feel like writing a long post unless people are interested.
I am a 43 brusier on the beta 1 server and have been for sometime.
Quote>EQII is for a different crowd, with the new HO's its much easier to solo. even con solo mobs are easy now. I dont think the game is ready to be released on the Nov 8 date everyone is taking about. People will not be happy some of the problems. However, if people dont mind the current issues and the style of gameplay they will enjoy it. I however will not be playing it since I dont like...
This is no longer true. With the recent patch soloing is MUCH harder than it was and is no longer easy and viable. Now it's mind numbing and much fewer mobs exist for it because they've made some of the old soloable content to hard for anything but groups.
EQ2, who is is it good for???
Absolutely nothing???
Do I win a prize? or was that the wrong answer :D ?
Quote from: TukaraiThe quests are nothing more than simple tasks hired out for menial rewards. Kill 10 X-mob and get a shiny piece of silver. Deliver X-supplies to random_npc_23 and get a piece of lowbie armor thats likely crappier than the junk you're wearing. The only "real" quests are the class specific ones.
The same is true of EQLive quests though. Collect some Crushbone Belts, hand them in. Get some cash and cheap armor. Move up to Legionnaire Pads. Same thing. 60 levels later, hand in planar armor, get some gems. And the same is true of quests in other games, too. The only real fundamental difference between any of the quests in any of the different games is how they implement the drops -- in DAoC, one kill got you your quest drop... in EQ, you sometimes have to farm a spot for hours/days... in EQ2, it's a compromise between the two.
Keep in mind too that quests have a color con of their difficulty to your current level. If you're doing a quest for a weapon and the quest cons green or even grey, then yeah, the weapon is likely gonna be useless compared to your current gear. It's Risk vs Reward -- a level 50 EQ2 player doing a quest designed for level 10 players is gonna get a fairly useless reward for himself, just like a level 70 EQLive player doing noobie quests today.
QuoteLinked mobs totally destroy any tactical decisions before the encounter. 4 mobs linked together? No problem, they're all coming. Maximum damage has replaced the need for any real tactics. If you have good gear, you can beat the encounter.
A good group still uses tactics. Say, for example, you've got four gnolls, an orange ^^ group. One is a healer, one a caster, and two melee. Just gonna pull em all and hash it out? Nah -- it could work, sure, but it's not gonna be efficient, and there's a good chance you'll lose someone. And I doubt any of us will disagree that shared exp debt sucks :( The best plan (and I say this because we do it all the time): root one melee, keep him off nice and safe. Engage the healer, burn him down fast so he doesn't keep the other gnolls healed. Then the caster, before he burns your own healers down. Then the two melee, who should both be slowed and dotted at this point. End result: four dead gnolls, and a live group with enough mana to do it again right off the bat. It's similar to the tactics we use now when a pull brings adds, except now they're not adds :P
Quote from: IskandarQuote from: TukaraiThe quests are nothing more than simple tasks hired out for menial rewards. Kill 10 X-mob and get a shiny piece of silver. Deliver X-supplies to random_npc_23 and get a piece of lowbie armor thats likely crappier than the junk you're wearing. The only "real" quests are the class specific ones.
The same is true of EQLive quests though. Collect some Crushbone Belts, hand them in. Get some cash and cheap armor. Move up to Legionnaire Pads. Same thing. 60 levels later, hand in planar armor, get some gems. And the same is true of quests in other games, too. The only real fundamental difference between any of the quests in any of the different games is how they implement the drops -- in DAoC, one kill got you your quest drop... in EQ, you sometimes have to farm a spot for hours/days... in EQ2, it's a compromise between the two.
Keep in mind too that quests have a color con of their difficulty to your current level. If you're doing a quest for a weapon and the quest cons green or even grey, then yeah, the weapon is likely gonna be useless compared to your current gear. It's Risk vs Reward -- a level 50 EQ2 player doing a quest designed for level 10 players is gonna get a fairly useless reward for himself, just like a level 70 EQLive player doing noobie quests today.
QuoteLinked mobs totally destroy any tactical decisions before the encounter. 4 mobs linked together? No problem, they're all coming. Maximum damage has replaced the need for any real tactics. If you have good gear, you can beat the encounter.
A good group still uses tactics. Say, for example, you've got four gnolls, an orange ^^ group. One is a healer, one a caster, and two melee. Just gonna pull em all and hash it out? Nah -- it could work, sure, but it's not gonna be efficient, and there's a good chance you'll lose someone. And I doubt any of us will disagree that shared exp debt sucks :( The best plan (and I say this because we do it all the time): root one melee, keep him off nice and safe. Engage the healer, burn him down fast so he doesn't keep the other gnolls healed. Then the caster, before he burns your own healers down. Then the two melee, who should both be slowed and dotted at this point. End result: four dead gnolls, and a live group with enough mana to do it again right off the bat. It's similar to the tactics we use now when a pull brings adds, except now they're not adds :P
Sorry, but its nothing like EQ's combat system. Pulling is much more tactical than in EQII. The only use for a monks FD is to escape his own death now. No more tactical pulling using the inherent ability of the monk. Same for the cleric WoTing a room full of mobs for the tank to pull one at a time. Or druid HoN. Or a chanters mez. Rangers that can only use thier inherent bowyer skills to pull mobs. After that, they're a melee just like all the others. Combat for dummies is what EQII gives you. Nothing more. Pull a cluster of mobs, hack and slash to the pretty simon lights on the wheel. My kid had great fun. Hes 12.
And you obviously never did the newbie armor quests in Shar Vahl or Freeport. Both of those require tradeskilling the armor pieces yourself. The Crushbone "task" was just that. A simple collect and turn in quest. And the reward for the easy road to level 10 was quite obvious. A piece of crap leather armor for a lousy belt turn in that got you some xp and no skill ups.
The only meaningful quests in EQII are the Hallmark quests. And even those are quite easy. And since the tradeskillers are already whining for superior tradeskilled items, your quested armor, and likely your epic weapon, will be useless by the time the first expansion hits the shelves sometime in mid 2005. So much for compromise. Theyre making the same mistakes they made in EQ. And some new ones as well. I think i'm probably gonna bust a gut if SOE limits the number of characters to 4 per account. Another issue they're being tight lipped about while the beta players are freaking out about it.
And 32 classes? LOL Thats the clincher for me. Theres 4 classes with 4 versions of each that vary by miniscule amounts. And the only difference between the archetypes of each class is a good and evil version of each. The difference between a warden and a fury? One is good, one is evil. With a couple of minor spell differences. Its still just one class no matter how you look at it. A schizophrenic druid. LOL
The voice overs are nice, for about 30 minutes. Then you just GOTTA load up an mp3 player to drown out thier annoyance while running around the cities doing those tasks.
But hey, if you find the game to your liking, and if you think its as immersive, or more immersive than EQ, its your dime. But I think i'll sit this dance out. I could probably tolerate leveling one toon through the game. But a second would be a stretch. Heh, all i'd need is one character slot, and about 6 weeks to get to level 50, then i'd shelf the game. :)
Actually, Shar Vahl and Shadeweaver's quest armors were what I wore till the 20's, when I had saved up enough to buy Rockhopper armor. Don't assume things :P
We seem to see the game from two very different perspectives, so arguing about it is kinda like arguing which pie is best, apple or cherry. :) Honestly, it doesn't seem like you spent much time playing around with EQ2 either. Don't like the voice overs? Turn em off in options. Everything can be adjusted there.
If you play EQ2 up into the 20's or 30's, you will see noticeable variations in the classes. Pre-20, yeah, two classes in the same archetype are very similar since they share the same core abilities -- the greater diversity is more noticeable at higher levels, when those initial abilities are upgraded to path-specific abilities. There will be overlap, which is intentional -- just as in EQLive, more than one class can heal, snare, or FD pull. The class designs were a direct result of the dislike current players have for the "holy trinity" of classes and allows players to create a group based on a more diverse set of characters. The difference between the good and evil classes is implementation of the core abilities -- nukes vs dots, lifetaps vs runes, etc.
Combat in EQ2 is more interactive than EQ1. If your 12 year old enjoys it, that's great! Glad to see the kid's having fun, since that's sorta the whole idea behind ANY online game :) EQ2 requires a bit more attention than the current "/autoattack on, go check the fridge" approach in EQLive however. Heroic Opportunities can be a deciding factor in a group's survival on some encounters, so it's important that a group work together to trigger them... and not go /afk to check HBO in mid fight :P FD pulling works at the high end game, tho not the same as the way it is used in EQLive. Crowd Control is essential on most pulls -- roots, snares, mezzes... same stuff we use today. Or will you just pull a dragon and all his buddies and hack it out? I'd hate to see your shared exp debt :D
Tradeskilled items are supposed to be superior to loot drops and most quest items. That's the whole idea behind the system -- that's why it takes as much time and effort to become a level 50 Artisan as it does a level 50 non-trade class. And the quests will indeed be trivial if they con low enough to you -- they have recommended levels just like mobs do. You can see the con of a quest in your journal or in the name of the quest when it's up in the corner of your screen. It's Risk vs Reward -- you're not gonna get elemental gear by handing in a Crushbone belt after all. Name some pre-50 EQLive quests that you consider meaningful btw -- I'd be interested to see your definition.
I do agree on the 4 toons per account thing tho. That kinda sucks :( Hopefully they'll change that before release (they haven't had an official announcement that 4 is the set number, and they are asking for /feedback on it ingame, so it doesn't seem to be set in stone yet).
/puts on his Swami hat
Some of my friends and I were discussing the possible outcome for EQII. Our prediction is as follows. EQII will be phenominal out of the gate (as most of the other MMO's have been), but will lose steam quickly. My guess is it'll last a year, and Sony will take the new stuff from EQII (graphics engine, quest system, etc) and try to put it into an expansion for EQI.
and now I must rest... Long live Jambi...
/takes off his Swami hat
:)
Quote from: MoorgardYou have a total of four character slots. They can all be on one server or spread across mulitple servers, however you wish.
http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=general&message.id=231548&view=by_date_ascending&page=5&no_redir=true
Four charecters per account seems a bit stingy if you ask me. I think we get over 350 in EQ1 right now hehe
EQ2 review from former EQ2vault writer (http://www.gezak.com/article103.html)
Concidering what he says in that article and the topic of this post it holds some incite.
EverQuest - $12.99 per month, 8 character slots per server, and the freedom and diversity to play them as you wish.
EverQuest 2 - $14.99 per month, 4 character slots per account, and the freedom and diversity to play them just like everyone else.
Awesome choice!
I think Giledorm's swami hat and crystal ball is likely going to be spot on when it comes to the games lasting appeal. One character, blasting away at all the quests, or at least as many as possible, and leveling to 50. End of game. At least in the "per player" sense. Rehashing all that with a second toon would drive me right off the deep end. I think i'd rather visit my dentist for back to back root canals.
"Noticable variation"? LOL, if it were that great, it would be "obvious difference". Grouping is a joke as well. 2 melee, 2 healers, 2 whatever. Done deal. Go kill stuff. And why should I have to wait until i'm in the twenties and thirties, and bored out of my mind, to see my characters diversity?
"Crowd Control is essential on most pulls -- roots, snares, mezzes... same stuff we use today"
Right, but with a twist. Now, you know "everything" is coming "before the pull". Every single time. So much for the element of surprise. You now know EXACTLY how you will deal with each and every encounter prior to the pull. And it will be the same every time, depending on the group composition. In EQLive, maybe just the pulled mob would come. Or maybe an add or two. Or maybe the entire camp. If you weren't at the top of your game for each pull, you were in for trouble. And the tactics are the same each and every time. You said it yourself, "they're not adds". So much for variation.
"The difference between the good and evil classes is implementation of the core abilities -- nukes vs dots, lifetaps vs runes, etc"
Thank you for the confirmation that there are really only half the classes they claim there are. Like I said, good and evil versions with minor spell differences. If the eveil version of any specific archetype is equally as effective as thier good counterpart, individuality just took a flying leap out the window.
And since you mentioned them, do you honestly believe that there are ANY quests in EQ2 that even come close by comparison to the Shar Vahl armor quests? Or the Freeport armor quests? In depth or immersion? Many of EQLives armor quests were much more involved and in depth that anything I saw in EQ2. The Thurgadin, Kael, and Skyshrine armor quests all required building factions first.
In the overall, EQ2 lacks depth and immersion. And that lack will likely be its undoing. Sure, people will pay to play. Of that I have no doubt. But the real questions is, "for how long?"
Quote from: TukaraiAnd since you mentioned them, do you honestly believe that there are ANY quests in EQ2 that even come close by comparison to the Shar Vahl armor quests? Or the Freeport armor quests? In depth or immersion? Many of EQLives armor quests were much more involved and in depth that anything I saw in EQ2. The Thurgadin, Kael, and Skyshrine armor quests all required building factions first.
There's nothing really immersive about chain pulling giants to get dragon faction though. And once the faction camping is complete, it's back to the same old "collect x item" quest structure that EQLive uses for every quest ingame. The city armor quests were neat with the backstory, but were otherwise the same "collect x item" model -- the NPC interactions are what adds spice to most of those quests. And the NPC interactions on some of the EQ2 quests are rather nicely done actually :)
On Beta 1 I didn't do much questing after the teens -- we were too focused on tradeskilling and levelling to try some mid level content. On Beta 2, I've slouched about and tried to find as many quests as possible. For a pre-20 quest, the "Veil" quest from Elddar Forest is rather nice.... good backstory, lot of steps (explained, but not so much so that you don't have to figure stuff out), interaction with a wide range of characters and locations, and very decent exp -- I actually found some areas I never even knew existed thanks to that quest, and the various rewards it provides were all well worth it.
The last patch (10/28 I think it was) kinda screwed up a LOT of things... limits on the number quests you can have active (which is lame imho -- the devs say this was necessary since the quest journal checking each and every mob for every player in the zone for quest items was part of the cause for zone lag issues), and a lot of the classes were changed around. From the looks of it, the class changes are attempting to add more diversity (especially pre-20), but it's still kinda awkward since the class balances are skewed now. They've also announced that social attributes will be added to most mobs now that factions are in... so you can indeed get "adds" now, which should be interesting.
Once I'm done watching the rest of Season 7 of Stargate I can get back to my Beta testing and see how things fly now :D
Are there weapon skill increases (ie You have gotten better at 1HS (11) ) and Dodge, Parry, Defence, Abjuration, Offence etc increases? I always liked the idea of having many skills I could concentrate on maxxing in EQ1. Especially Alcohol Tolerance. Is there the same sort of thing in EQ2?
Quote from: LorathirAre there weapon skill increases (ie You have gotten better at 1HS (11) ) and Dodge, Parry, Defence, Abjuration, Offence etc increases? I always liked the idea of having many skills I could concentrate on maxxing in EQ1. Especially Alcohol Tolerance. Is there the same sort of thing in EQ2?
From what I've heard all your skills automatically increase for every 20% of a level you get (even Alcohol Tolerance).
Quote from: SkandaQuote from: LorathirAre there weapon skill increases (ie You have gotten better at 1HS (11) ) and Dodge, Parry, Defence, Abjuration, Offence etc increases? I always liked the idea of having many skills I could concentrate on maxxing in EQ1. Especially Alcohol Tolerance. Is there the same sort of thing in EQ2?
From what I've heard all your skills automatically increase for every 20% of a level you get (even Alcohol Tolerance).
I always thought Sony were making EQ2 to appease the people that were unhappy with EQ1. Looks to me they are doing the opposite and pandering to the weeners. It could be that we've turned into a race of morons and don't know it yet.
I was all set to make a long post of all the stupid idea's that are in EQ2. But there's too many of them - the biggest being ARAC. I'll try it when it releases but I think I'll be royally pissed off. We'll see.
Quote from: LorathirI was all set to make a long post of all the stupid idea's that are in EQ2. But there's too many of them - the biggest being ARAC. I'll try it when it releases but I think I'll be royally pissed off. We'll see.
For the benefit of everyone else who didn't know what it meant, ARAC stands for "Any Race Any Class" (or close enough). D&D 3.0 had ARAC, but you better have a good role-playing reason to do it or the DM probably wouldn't let you. EQ2 doesn't have these "checks and balances" so I agree it doesn't make much sense.
Personally I think the worst idea is the shared experience debt...saw screenshots of a raid on Vox and everyone in the raid shared in the debt too I think...sounds so moronic...
Game on,
The ARAC results in some... interesting... combinations. Troll Wizards, Ogre Enchanters, that sort of thing. By the end game, they'll be comparable to a "normal" race/class combo, but at the lower levels they'll really suffer, as the base stats of some races just aren't suited to some classes (a level 15 High Elf Cleric will have more mana than a level 15 Troll Cleric with the same gear due to differences in the initial starting stats for each race). Gear will help, but they'll still fall behind some other races who are better suited for the role until the higher levels of the game. This will make it hard for them to get reliable groups outside of friends/guildmates more than anything. Personally, I don't mind someone playing the race and class they really want to play -- but only so long as their odd choices don't endanger my advancement... having a main healer with a lower mana pool than your main tank does not make for a productive group :(
Most skills increase automatically with each level. Some require use to improve, though I haven't really paid enough attention to notice if they increase automatically even if you never use them. One more Stargate DVD left, then I can check :D
Oh, and the exp debt isn't that bad, though I think it's still in need of some tweaking. I had a REALLY bad pickup group a few days ago (despite the ease attributed to the gameplay, there's an amazingly large number of people who just don't have a clue... sadly, I was in a random pickup group with five of them *sigh*), and I ended up with eight bubs of exp debt. It faded by itself at about one bub an hour, even while I was offline and sound asleep. I think the amount earned and the rate of decay on it need to be adjusted some though.
Quote from: IskandarThere's nothing really immersive about chain pulling giants to get dragon faction though. And once the faction camping is complete, it's back to the same old "collect x item" quest structure that EQLive uses for every quest ingame. The city armor quests were neat with the backstory, but were otherwise the same "collect x item" model -- the NPC interactions are what adds spice to most of those quests. And the NPC interactions on some of the EQ2 quests are rather nicely done actually :)
And whats so immersive about EQ2 quests that makes them any better than EQLives? NPC interaction? What interaction? The text bubble in addition to the voice overs telling you what they want from you? I find root canals more immersive than EQ2. Automatic skill ups, LOL..... now thats immersive :) But hey, if you like it, more power to you.
The game is already experiencing major problems before it even gets out of beta. The "4 toons per account" thread is up to 550+ posts, and the majority of them are opposed to it. Then theres the class balance threads. And the combat problem threads. And the graphics issues threads. And stability threads, and so on and so on.
All I know is, they have less than 2 weeks to sort all the problems out. But in traditional SOE fashion, its not likely to happen. And players will be paying for beta material for about 6 months while they sort it out at thier liesure. Can you say SWG?
Quote from: IskandarI ended up with eight bubs of exp debt. It faded by itself at about one bub an hour, even while I was offline and sound asleep. I think the amount earned and the rate of decay on it need to be adjusted some though.
Ah, I didn't realize it went away with time. I thought it could only be recovered with fighting. Guess I shouldn't have assumed. :)
Game on,
Tuk... what is it you want in a quest in a linear MMPORPG? You've obviously got some idea of exactly what you want, otherwise you wouldn't keep bringing it up. You cite finding immersion in farming faction in EQLive... I fail to see immersion in that. Maybe it's just me, but I find that to be boring repetitive drudgery... perhaps our definitions of "immersion" are different (and note that I never said EQ2 quests were "better" than EQLive... I do find them more immersive, however, due to the eye candy, as I will comment on shortly). You call EQ2 quests equivalent to "root canals"... just what is the fundamental difference you see between an EQ2 quest and an EQLive quest? Instead of just slamming it like a typical boardtroll, discuss it. Show me the error of my ways instead of giving me a baseless uninformed slur of a game you clearly have minimal exposure to. You want class balance or combat or even graphics issues threads? Go up to the top of the forum list here at Beastlords.org. EQLive is not immune from them any more than EQ2 or WoW is. No game will ever please 100% of the people 100% of the time.
For quests, every MMP game out there uses the same basic underlying quest model, with different styles of eye candy wrapped around it. The difference between quests in EQLive, EQ2, DAoC, SWG, AC, AC2, AO, WoW, and Eve is... negligible, at best -- it's all in the presentation and how that ties into the overlying gameworld. There's no real difference between collecting two Legionnaire Shoulderpads for a Dwarf in Kaladim... collecting four Fairy Wings for a vendor in Oakmyst... killing three Jawa for a trainer on Tatooine... stealing cargo pods from a pirate cruiser in the Andressi system... etc. They all use the exact same model: player kills *a_mob01*, collects item(s), gets reward. Bounty quests are the same, regardless of the mob or game -- player kills x number of *a_mob01*, gets reward.
Quests add a second level of immersion to an otherwise stock PvE game. Each game uses a different level of character involvement, from simple hailing and repeating of stock phrases to mission terminals to submitting premade dialogue responses from a selection. Some games use faction to determine the "tone" of the NPC response or to prohibit response until certain faction requirements are met. I've yet to see a game that has a truly open quest system in terms of dialogue... I'd love to just chat at an NPC, saying whatever I please to trigger different responses... but the game coders can't add that degree of interaction to a MMPORPG with current technology. Personally, I prefer the EQLive and EQ2 techniques over the blandness of mission terminals too, but that's just me.
Beyond that, it's all eye candy. Some games use interactive emotes -- the NPCs move and gesture. Some use vocalizations, where you actually hear the conversation. Some use elaborate texture maps to add realism or details to the character and their surroundings. Some offer terrain additions, such as grass or birds, or terrain SFX, such as crickets chirping. For the actual harvesting of the quest items, some games use a one-kill method... some use random drops of varying degrees of rarity... some use subquests (ie, get item x, take to NPC2, get item y; or even combine two item x to create item y). The rewards vary also -- sometimes items of great power, sometimes items of value only to a vendor, sometimes simple coin, sometimes experience, sometimes faction. A good game will have a mix of rewards to please a mix of playertypes -- some people like the phat lewtz, some people like the faction, some just want cold hard cash. All of these options will vary from one game to the next, as each has adopted it's own standard method of quest delivery and execution.
Now, personally, I like the eye candy in more current games like AC2, WoW, and EQ2. It's why I have a video card that cost me a week's pay -- if poor chocky graphics were fine, I'd still be playing Galaga or Pong. :P Eye candy allows for more immersion in a game... imagine, sitting by a brook, hearing the water trickle over the stones behind you while shafts of sunlight filter through the tree above you, dancing across the water's surface. A cluster of butterflys flitter by, weaving around a leaf that's falling from the tree. The light crunch of a deer's footsteps betrays his appraoch as he nears, turns to look at you, then saunters away. Overhead, a hawk screeches as it hunts for prey. As the sun sets, stars begin to twinkle through the darkening sky, crickets chirp in the distance, and fireflies come out, dancing a random dance among the branches of the tree, reflecting eerily in the light ripples of the brook. THAT is immersion in my book, not waiting 7 minutes for a_giant07258 to spawn where a_giant07257 just died. I gladly pay for games that offer me that level of immersion, that level of detail. And if you want to see that very spot, go to the northern covered bridge between the Oracle Tower and Windstalker Village in EQ2. :)
When you get right down to the bottom line, the whole idea behind the quest system, regardless of the game platform it is based from or the eye candy around it, is to keep the player busy ingame and reward them for their time. The end result, regardless of the reward, is to keep as many of the players playing (and happily playing) as possible -- long-term players = long-term profits, and the more long-term players you have, the higher those profits go.
That, in a nutshell, is Quests 101. If you want to further illustrate how similar quests are from one game to the next, answer this question: What quest is this? -- an NPC asks you to deliver an item to a second NPC some distance away. After delivering the item, the second NPC asks you to further help by killing a_mob01. I'm curious if anyone will guess which game and which quest this is -- I'm willing to bet the answers will be quite diverse :)[code:1][/code:1]
I love it when people compare a new games content with content from a like game with 7+ expansions behind it...
- On Combat -
EQ 1 you click autoattack and occationally hit bash or kick and hope you kill the mob before the mob kills you.
EQ 2 you click autoattack and furiously work to execute Heroic Opportunites in an atempt to gain the advantage and kill the mob before it kills you.
Learning the Tactics of Heroic Opportunites (Solo or in Groups) will give you the ability to defeat mobs beyond your capability
" i personally have gone from soloing blues and greens to killing whites and even yellows with the Tactics of Heroic Opportunities. "
- On Quests -
Look at the Initial EQ 1 Quests - kill mobs, collect items, and hand to NPC_01. This was how EVERY quest in the initial release of EQ 1 worked.
The only reason for doing these quests was for items they awarded (with the exception of the occational orc belt, shoulderpad quests which where good xp at low levels)
EQ 2 has Fed-Ex quests, Kill Quests, Quests Involving Instanced Dungeons (LDoNs if you like), progressive quests, Quests from Items, and Quests from scenery.
The reasons for doing quests in EQ 2 are as follows, XP, Coin, Items, Progression.
" Questing is a viable way to level in EQ - i personally made level 14 without killing a single mob with the exception of those kills needed for class progression "
The EQ 1 aspects have improved over time and so will EQ 2 improve as more expansions come out - why will you have to wait for expansions? because EQ 1 and 2 both share the same principle - the game is there to make SOE money and they will make more money by releasing expansions.
Quote from: Drakh
EQ 2 you click autoattack and furiously work to execute Heroic Opportunites in an atempt to gain the advantage and kill the mob before it kills you.
Learning the Tactics of Heroic Opportunites (Solo or in Groups) will give you the ability to defeat mobs beyond your capability
Maybe I'm just picking up on the wrong threads, but current opinion is that battles are over so quickly, there's little in the way of strategy or tactics. Priests spam heals constantly, melee bash ability buttons as soon as they are available. A few people have likened the battle system in EQ2 to "Whack-A-Mole." People aren't using the HO system because there's no time.
I have to restate, this is only what I've seen people commenting on. I'm not in beta so I haven't experienced this, I'm just going on what people have been saying, so I'll happily stand corrected if this isn't the case.
Combat is fast and furious but its not a simple case at constantly spaming heals/attacks. well it is for the first 10 levels but once you start hitting the bigger zones strategies do come into it more.
for those not aware you will be level 6 before you leave the "newbie isle" and you can expect to be level 8 by the time you have finished your initial citizenship quests.
As you get more levels you get more abilities/spells and you get more combinations of Heroic Opportunities.
Also Heal aggro is very high - its not possible for a healer to start spam healing right away before the fighter engages because the mob will simply eat the cleric. clerics must time their heals and give the tanks enough time to generate aggro. (Early beta this was very hard but its been tweaked alot during the 6 weeks i been in beta)
heres some info on predator DPS
predators get sneak attack which is high damage while flanking the mob - you lose this extra damage while soloing but you can use abilities to use it solo...
cheap shot is a short delay stun that will interrupt spellcasting, if you hit the mob again the stun breaks before the second duration is up...
so predators can (with some practice i might add) cheap shot (stun), attack off, move behind mob, sneak attack, ;)
you can also combine this with a Heroic Opportunity for even more damage...
Sneak ... creep up behind the mob,
Shadow attack ... initiate attack on mob (shadow attack can only be used while sneaking),
<this starts a HO Chance>
Cheap Shot ... stuns mob
<this activates the HO chance>
Attack-off ... Move behind mob
Sneak Attack ... this does alot of damage from behind
Quick Strike ... this does increased damage in a fast attack
< this completes the HO and does additional damage to the mob>QuotePeople aren't using the HO system because there's no time.
On a green mob i can get one or 2 HOs off, on blue or whites it can take me 5 or more HOs to drop the mob solo at arround level 15. (sometimes you hit sometimes you miss so you cant always get a HO off.
If a group is not having enough time to use HOs then they are in the wrong XP spot.
mobs are grey (no xp), green, blue, white, yellow, orange, red
mobs also have ^ and v rankings (up arrow and down arrows)
the arrows represent how tough the mob is and is generally the equivilent of another mob.
for example a level 10 orc with one up arrow ( ^ ) is the same as fighting 2 level 10 orcs, the same orc with two up arrows ( ^^ ) is the same as fighting 3-4 level 10 orcs.
The arrows are a good designation of group content vs solo. groups may be killing yellows but if they are all v (one down arrow) the mobs are simply too easy and will die really fast.
I personally have soloed a
Yellow v using just half my health and power and then got my ass handed to me by a
Green ^^ a few mobs later :)
Armor con and spell levels will also make huge difference in combat. My Shaman, for example, was getting owned by yellow solo mobs when he wore mostly grey-con armor. I upgraded to yellow-con armor and had no problems with those same mobs after that. As in EQ1, higher AC will make the mobs miss you more and hit you for less when they don't miss -- it adds up fast :)
The same goes for spells -- App1 is the default starter level, App2 is purchased from NPC vendors, App3 is playermade, and Adept1 is a mob drop. At the very least, buy the App2's when you can, or App3 if a player is selling them cheap enough. The higher level will increase the duration of some spells, lower mana costs, increase direct damage, and generally make them much more efficient at doing what they do. With an App1 Smite, my Shaman would almost go oom chain-nuking an even con Coldwind Octopus... with Adept1 Smite, he'd finish the same mob with about half mana.
For fights, Drakh is spot-on about heal aggro. A healer who spams heals is just gonna get aggro and get killed (I love it when a Gnoll shouts out "Git the healer!" :P). Some of the Heroic Opportunities provide group heals or group power regen, some provide haste or damage bonuses, some do direct damage or increase spell damage -- so they are well worth the time to trigger. Some of the fights I was in would have wiped my group easily if not for HO's. And it's not like you stare at the spell bars waiting for something to blink either... after a few experiences with it, it's no more intrusive than hitting Kick or Bash or a nuke when it refreshes. :)
Quote from: LogatoI've been playing EQ2 beta since late July. Thought I would let you all know who it's for.
EQ2 if for groupers. If you don't want to get into a group of 4 or more people, 99% of the meaningfull content after lvl 20 you will not be able to do.
You make be able to find mobs to solo, but you won't be able to finish class quests, item quests, access quests or even to get into some of the zones.
EQ2 is LESS for soloers and casual players than EQLive. The game is going to have fewer people playing it than SWG, and probably fewer than EQLive also.
I got the exact opposite impression of EQ2 during the beta. It has much more solo content and is much friendlier for the casual player as there are no time constraints for quests.... do them at your own pace. I only grouped a few times during the beta, just for a few specific quests that involved mobs that are grouped themselves. Even then, there are wanderers that you can get to fulfill the quest, it will just take a lot longer as those wanderers aren't as plentiful as the grouped mobs. For me EQ2 is a great game when I can't get KEI or Virtue in EQ1. I just pop in for a hour or so and can work on one of many solo quests without having to worry about grouping.