The Beastlords' Den

Everquest 1 => Library => Equipment => Topic started by: Coprolith on January 09, 2004, 11:09:49 AM

Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on January 09, 2004, 11:09:49 AM
Hi all

Inspired by Yiktiki's excellent Beastlord spreadsheet i've been using a spreadsheet myself now for some time to calculate weapon dps and generate a weapon ranking to help me decide with weapon upgrades.

I felt it was time for an update, because the old calculations using modal damage simply weren't sufficient anymore in today's EQ, and so many weapons have procs now (augmented or not) that you cant simply ignore them. So I've used the results of my recent ATK and proc rate parses to make the calculations better.

I've cleaned it up a bit and added notes to certain cells so i hope it'll be relatively easy to use. Link to the latest version of the Excel spreadsheet is here:

dpscalc.zip (http://members.chello.nl/~pg.deheij/dpscalc.zip).

Its in ZIPped format. If you don't have Excel, there's a link in Yikitiki's beastlord spreadsheet post in the Library forum.

Features:
1) Uses your ATK rating to calculate average damage per hit. Should be accurate in the ~900-1900 ATK range
2) Incorporates the effects of many AA skills that affect weapon dps
3) Also calculates proc dps (for DD and lifetap procs only so far), based on your Dexterity, and uses an equivalent proc damage for weapons for pet procs.
4) Incorporates elemental damage (but not bane damage)
5) pc- and moblevel hitratios and proc resist rates

What it doesn't do:
1) Give the complete list of all BST-usable weapons. It's a lot of work putting in all the details (i had to add a few more then given in Yiktiki's sheet, so it's more then a cut-and-paste job). Frankly, i could use y'alls help with this. If you see a weapon missing from the DB and know all the details (the ones in the grey fields), pm them to me and i'll add em
 
2) Give exactly the same dps numbers as your parser does. There are several reasons for this:
- Calculations are based on ideal conditions, that is 100% uptime. In reality combat casting, getting stunned, out-of-range etc will lower your dps. This effect gets worse as the base delay of the weapon gets faster. Also, calculations remove the statistical variance which can be quite large in short parses.
- No riposte damage. Riposte damage increases with the base damage of the MH weapon. Effect is very small tho and won't change the ranking significantly
- Your parser may not be giving you the correct dps number either. Determining the exact fight-time isnt as easy as it looks programmatically.
As a result some parsers underestimate dps a bit
- The accuracy of the calculations is best for characters lvl 60-70 but  decreases if your toon is of lower level. Toons below lvl 60 are on a damage table that leads to noticeable lower dps and this is not taken into account. If its just a weapon comparison you're after this isnt too big an issue. The dps number themselves may not be very meaningful anymore, but the ranking would be affected in only a few places. (Note: this has considerably improved since the introduction of the level-dependent version)

How to use
On the Stats'n skills-sheet you can enter your level, ATK rating, haste%, dexterity and AA skills. I think most of it is self-explanatory, and i've added notes to the input cells to help out. The database sheets should automatically recalculate using the new values (unless you have this disabled in excel's options. If you have, you'll prolly also know how to manually recalculate)

If your weapon isnt in the database yet, there are also fields on the Stats 'n skills sheet where you can enter a weapon setup. You'll have to enter the weapon details yourself.

If you have any problems using the spreadsheet don't hesitate to ask.
Comments/questions/criticisms are always welcomed

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Kylaz on January 09, 2004, 01:01:16 PM
Nice job, as alwaws, Coprolith.

A few questions:

1) How do you compute your haste level ?
Supposing you have a +I% item and a +S% spell, do you do:

Haste=I+S %
or
Haste = 100*((1+I/100)*(1+S/100)-1 )

For example: 40% epic claw and 50% spell haste, is that
haste=40+50 = 90%
or haste= (1.4*1.5-1)*100=110% capped to 100%

2) What exactly is the "I am tanking mobs approx" cell ?
It seems that when I increase that, DPS goes down.

3) Didn't find epic in database, perhaps thats an old thing for you, but I'm still using it in secondary...
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on January 09, 2004, 01:48:09 PM
1) haste = I + S

2) Correct, forgot to mention that one in the original post. Since the weapon ranking now depends on both melee and proc dps, i needed to know both terms as best as possible, a scaling number doesnt do anymore. Tanking mobs lowers your hit ratio because of the mob's dodges, ripostes and parries and therefore lowers the melee dps, but not the proc dps. If you know what % of your time you are tanking that effect can be taken into account. It doesnt have to be exact, just use your best guess. For instance you could use: never tanking = 0, sometimes tanking = 25, tanking regularly = 50, often tanking = 75, always tanking = 100). It's not like the entire table gets turned upside down if you're off by 25%. If you don't know your percentage, entering 50 is your safest bet

3) Yep that is an obvious omission since many BSTs do use their OH epic.
There's a problem with the epic and a select few other such as primal velium that i havent incorporated. I use one haste and one ATK (well 2, HtH ATK and 1HB ATK) value for the tables. But the OH epic has its own haste and adds to your ATK as well. Primal velium adds lotsa ATK, which you'll definitely notice in your dps. So i didnt put them into the table.
There are also weapons that proc an AC debuff, and many weapons add some STR which may or may not increase ATK as well if your not capped yet. This is a level of detail that i havent put into the spreadsheet on purpose. It'll all get too complicated, and with the exception of a select few weapons such as OH epic and primal velium the effects arent big enough to warrant such a huge undertaking.

It's easy enough to calculate it on the Stats'n skills page tho.
Just make sure that when you are entering the OH epic to update the haste and ATK fields as well (and reset them when calculating a combo without the epic)

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Scalewulf on January 09, 2004, 03:33:01 PM
You are the Man, Coprolith!

Would you consider integrating SCF3 in the sheet?  I don't know how much more work it would be and if you don't have the time, I completely understand.  

I see quite a few crits, especially having an aug on the WLK and offhand epic (3 chances to proc, although diminishing).  

Once again, kudos to you and the research you do!

 :wink:
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Lewzephyr on January 09, 2004, 04:35:39 PM
very nice work.... just an FYI found a missing weapons

Rujarkian Stone Knuckles (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=23261)
Dmg 12, Dly 19.
str: +10 sta: +5 cha: +8
pr: +8
hp: +30
Effect:Rujarkian Mist (Combat)

thanks for your hard work.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Hrann on January 09, 2004, 05:08:28 PM
Excellent job Coprolith, this is a great resource.

FYI, I just calculated the best possible setup that a non-raider can get (i.e. me).  SHO with 150pt proc and 2 dam aug from Takish would be the third best weapon in the game.  Golden Wraps of the Compact with a 125pt proc added would be the 14th best offhand weapon.  Combined, this combo would be better than an REBB (3rd best 2hb).

Not too shabby at all.  The main limitation is the offhand - a raider with access to an offhand that is of similar quality to their mainhand can do a good bit better, but still, it makes me feel good to think that at least my weapons will be close in quality to some of the best stuff.

Maybe the new expansion will have a good offhand weapon for me ;)
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Yiktiki on January 09, 2004, 06:16:22 PM
Nice work Cop.  I'm in the process of rebuilding my spreadsheet to allow augs... would you like to integrate that into the main sheet? it would then take some collaboration to keep stuff sync'd up, but it would be nice to have it all in one place.  As it is, we want to work on ease of use with yours... I can't cut n paste so easily, nor can I sort.  I'll gladly help you out with any Excel help you need though.  Let me know if you're interested.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Hrann on January 09, 2004, 06:18:41 PM
Sorting works fine for me, but I agree it would be nice to be able to cut and paste more easily.

Both you guys are great for creating these tools.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Yiktiki on January 09, 2004, 06:30:35 PM
If I try to sort by MH eff, or total DPS MH it screws the table all up.  In addition to that, I had to go and make 1 row with the name for each column, when I tried sorting a column it would suck the additional lines down into the sheet.  Here is what I had to do to make it sortable.

dps09c-yik.zip (http://www.saymu.net/beastlord/dps09c-yik.zip)
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on January 09, 2004, 07:35:24 PM
It'd be a great idea to integrate my calculations into your sheet Yiktiki, its always easier to have a single, central resource. Im not sure how i'd add augments to it tho, basically what they do is just change base stats or add an proc. Im pretty good with the calculation stuff but when i start adding features things tend to get messy and i end up with a spreadsheet only i can understand. So i may have to take you up on your offer to help out Yik.

Im glad you guys are bug testing  :D
Exactly what seems to be the problem with sorting the tables? I didnt experience any problems myself. The link you provided to the update doesnt work for me Yik so i can't check.

As for adding more skills, yes, i do plan to add more. SCF should be easy, 3 levels, each one adding a fixed percentage to proc dps. I've figured out how to calculate the effects of CF and Frenzy of Spirit as well. Still thinking on how to implement them tho. For FoS i may have to resort to using VB macros or it could get messy. If it turns out using macros is a better solution then i might as well make a macro that calculates it all in one go. It'll be faster and might make it easier to integrate it into Yiktiki's spreadsheet as well.

Thanks for the bug reports and suggestions. Keep em coming

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Yiktiki on January 09, 2004, 08:59:08 PM
One sec, i'll just fix the link.  The sorting issues I had were a) i had multi-line headers, so I couldn't just click the column header and have it sort ascending/descending, and b) the DMG Bonus column on the 1h sheet was a hard-coded 13 for some, and was = the field above for others.  I sorted and it would get confused if the field above wasn't 13 (it was pointing to the column header and giving a #VALUE# error.  I fixed em both on here.  Also added the offhand epic to the list for dps calculations.

On the note of offhand epic,  since you are manually entering your attack score, the atk from that weapon is already accounted for in figuring dps.  It would behave just like any old h2h weapon at that point.  So I was confused as to what made you hold off in adding it.  That may just be my ignorance in the calculations though.

Oh yah.. and on the subject of macros.  I've yet to put any into the spreadsheet but thats about the only way I can think to add options for augments, so it's probably going to be coming along soon.  I'll let you finish your sheet before we try to figure out the best way to integrate to mine.  Should be pretty seamless once yours debugged I think.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on January 09, 2004, 09:51:31 PM
Quote
b) the DMG Bonus column on the 1h sheet was a hard-coded 13 for some, and was = the field above for others

Ah, i see. This is exactly why its a good thing the sheet is being bug tested. Im lazy  :D
Seriously, i copy cells by dragging their corners. if there's a constant number in a cell Excell tends to turn it into a series, 13, 14, 15 etc in this case, so i use the '= the field above' method instead.

The problem with OH epic is that if you manually adjust the ATK value, all weapons in the database are computed with that adjusted dps value, including the 2HBs. The simplest solution would be to make additional entries for ATK and haste bonuses on the database sheets. But that would mean much more user input is required and i was afraid it would cause more rather then less confusion. For instance, i'd have to add a 6% haste bonus to the OH epics haste bonus field because my base worn haste is 34%. Someone with 29% haste would have to enter 11%, and someone with 41% worn haste would have to enter 0. Or i could solve it by splitting the haste% field into worn haste% and spel haste%, and then calculate the bonus as (epic haste - worn haste) (with a lower limit of 0).

Would like to hear what you all think to be the easiest solution.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Yiktiki on January 09, 2004, 10:02:48 PM
Ahh.. good point.  Hmm.  On your sheet it could get very cumbersome.  Mayhaps after  the sheets are integrated then we could build and ATK off of the stats and gear that is equipped, so it would only give the different attack score when that weapon is equipped.  I'll give it all some thought and check back.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on January 09, 2004, 10:46:48 PM
I'm gonna make another change, i think. I'll split the 1H'ed database into 1HB, 1HP and HtH just like in your sheet. It'll make it easier to integrate with the cut-and-paste jobs, and it'll also make the formulas i use better readable (i can remove all those messy '=IF(field="HtH",..,..) functions.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Argach on January 10, 2004, 12:32:48 AM
Very very useful tool. I was actually thinking how cool it'd be to have something like that and then forgot the line of thought completely. One thing I'd like to see is another weapon info slot on the first page for 2hb with only one line, seems confusing for me to clear the off-hand line empty and put 2hb in the first slot, and it'd be easier to compare dual-wield combination and 2hb which is often handy.

Oh, and it is missing SCF and CF/FoA levels, which would change the melee/proc dps ratios somewhat. Would also be nice if it could handle two different procs in a weapon, since all my three viable 1h weapons have two different DD procs, one "unresistable" (time lapse, war strike, soul leech) and another resistable from LDoN.

Btw, at 100% haste, 305 dex, BF5 and 60% tanking ED and shinai main hand had almost exactly same total dps. And that's without SCF3 calculated in. :shock:
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on January 10, 2004, 01:22:38 AM
I like the idea about the additional line for 2H'ers, Argach, questions about a comparison between a dw combo and a 2HB come up regularly after all.

Lets not get overzealous about adding too many features tho. The complexity of the calculations increases with the number of variables whereas the benefit of adding variables decreases. The most important variables have been resolved: adding proc dps, ATK vs damage, HtH vs 1HB/2HB/1HP and BF. All other variables tweak the calculation by %'s or even fractions of a %. A big issue no one's come up with yet is mob level. I would've liked to put that in, but the issue is simply too complex and the relation between dps and mob level is not known, not to mention ambiguous. You can have different dps against 2 different mobs of the same level.

So any additional features in the pipeline are going to be handled by complexity first and effect second. SCF will be easy. CF will be more complex. Augments have a bigger effect, but until we can figure out a simple and solid way to implement them, you'll have to live with the fact that proc augments get the same resist modifier as the main proc.

At the same time i also have to consider those who are less experienced with dps calculations and using spreadsheets in general. Making them fill out 20 fields before getting a dps number turns the exercise into something like filling out a IRS form.

Right now im concentrating on making the sheet easier to integrate with Yiktiki's. I've already begun writing macro's to do most of the calculations. With macros it'll be easier to integrate and add new features as well.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on January 11, 2004, 10:47:10 AM
New version, get it here (http://members.chello.nl/~pg.deheij/dps092b.zip)

Changes/fixes in v0.92b

- Changed method of calculations. The calculations now use VB macros. this has no visible effect to the user, but it makes it easier to add new features, and integrate the sheet into Yiktiki's.
You may have to enable macros in Excel's options in order to get this to work (you'll prolly get asked upon start up). No worries, i wont erase your harddisk  :D . The macros are not protected so feel free to look around.
- Changed the 1Hed DB into 3 separate sheets for 1HB, 1HP and HtH.
- Added another line on the stats and skills page that allows you to directly compare a dw combo with a 2HB (thanks Argach for the suggestion)
- Added SCF
- Added every weapon from Yiktiki's sheets (made a few corrections here and there as well). Also added a few new weapons.

Still in the pipeline:
- Adding augments
- Adding special weapon bonuses such as epic haste and avatar.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Hrann on January 12, 2004, 01:25:00 PM
This is great.

I'm not sure if it's me or not, but the proc damage does not seem to be changing when you change the SCF value.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on January 12, 2004, 02:06:22 PM
:oops:  :oops:  Defined the multiplier for SCF as an Integer. it always got rounded down to 1  :oops:  :oops:

Sheet updated
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Aggy on January 13, 2004, 09:24:36 PM
Cop:  SWEET job, man...very useful!  Bewtween you and Yik I think the BL community should be the best informed of ANY of the classes when it comes to eqipment...aprticularly weapons.

You guys ROCK.
:)

Hrann: I like your thoguht process with regards to coming up with the best possible weapon combo for a non-raiding BL, but I don't see how you can really count the procs in your weapon comparisons.  Adding two 125-point procs to your weapons is a great way to increase DPS...but the same procs could be added to the raid-dropped weapons, too...
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on January 14, 2004, 10:38:16 AM
Another small update.

Sempai kindly send me some logfiles of him attacking a red con L70 mob from behind. Based on the results of that parse i've made 2 changes to the calculations that i hope will improve them

- Changed the way proc damage is calculated.
By adding Sempai's data on proc rates to my own i'm getting the very strong impression that the return you get from DEX above 255 diminishes rapidly, to the point where it is no longer possible to even see changes in the proc rate underneath the statistical variance at all. I'd say its even possible that the average proc rate has been hard coded with a cap. I say this because at 255 dex and above the proc rates always average out to neat numbers: 2 procs per min for the MH and 1 proc/min for the OH. The threshold 255 DEX is where the old linear increase in procrate reached those same numbers. That's far too neat for me to believe in coincidence.
I therefore coded proc rates into the sheet in the same way, linear increase up to 255 DEX, constant at 2 procs/min MH and 1 proc/min OH above 255 DEX
- Thanks to Sempai's data, i've been able to at least get a rough approximation that mob level has on hit ratio. I've added this approximation to the calculation, as the effect of mob level on hit ratio makes a considerable difference to melee dps. For more on this, see my latest update of the effects of ATK (http://beastlords.demonshouse.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=211) thread in the library section.

Link to latest version: dps093b.zip (http://members.chello.nl/pg.deheij/dps093b.zip)

If anyone else has high quality, well controlled dps parses i'd be very grateful if you'd send them to me. After all, its only by comparing the calculations to actual parsed dps that the calculations can be improved.

/hugs

edit: fixed link
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Sempai on January 14, 2004, 03:30:22 PM
I have to give credit to Mahes for the mob selection. He is the one that got me the detail I needed to do this test.

I have one minor issue with the spreadsheet.

Some procs cannot have a critical blast, such as the Shinai of the Ancients, even if you have SCF3. (It has a debuff over time component). Therefore, the dps calc is going to be slightly wrong for these types of weapons. Perhaps there is a way to handle this, and I have not found it yet.

For my setup, ED primary and Shinai secondary still seem to be the better dps setup for me as your spreadsheet indicates. I know that most people dislike relying upon procs for reliable DPS, but every analysis I have seen supports this theory. It is this weapon setup that I am working to parse long and hard to prove it once and for all.

Thanks for the great work. Let me know what else I can do to help.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on January 14, 2004, 04:40:44 PM
Quote
Some procs cannot have a critical blast, such as the Shinai of the Ancients, even if you have SCF3

Aye, i noticed that. Its just one of those approximations we'll have to live with for now. There are simply too many variables involved in dps to ever get it completely right.
The only work-around I can give for now is that if you are handy enough with a spreadsheet and you know a particular weapon cant crit proc you could manually set the SCFfactor for that weapon to 1.

One day when im completely satisfied with the sheet and we got it integrated with Yiktiki's we can go over the "specials", and manually change them in the DB rather then just copy the formulas. I think that might be a better way to do it, otherwise we'd be adding column after column of input data and the sheet would become very untidy.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Hrann on January 14, 2004, 09:33:46 PM
Aggy, re: secondary procs.  I've often wondered what sort of dps is added when you have a second proc on a weapon.  It seems to me that the dps jump is not as great as if you added a first proc, but I can't say for sure.  If it does add that much to a weapon, it would be a nice-to-have in the spreadsheet in the future.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Hrann on January 14, 2004, 09:54:20 PM
I was just playing with the file.  It appears that entering the same data on both the first sheet and the sheet with the table, you do not get the same dps answer.  For example, put in the numbers from one of the HtH weapons on the StatsnSkills page and you will not get the same MH dps.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on January 14, 2004, 10:49:29 PM
Are you sure Hrann cuz im seeing no differences on my comp. Did you update all fields correctly when you changed weapons (the Type field might be easy to miss if you change from one weapon type to another)

If that checks out, could you reproduce the bug for me and send me the details, or better yet, send a copy of the sheet via email?

Thx for testing  :)

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Hrann on January 15, 2004, 03:34:46 PM
OK, my mind must not have been working particularly well yesterday - I think I hadn't changed the 1HB to HtH on the first sheet when I was inputting a new weapon.

The only minor error I see now is that the LDoN weapon is listed with its old name Slave's Hidden Eitchaka, instead of its proper name, Slave's Hidden Orb.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Kylaz on January 15, 2004, 08:32:59 PM
Damn - wanted to give it a try, but don't have excel at home (EULA respecting beastlord here  :wink: ) Can anyone post the link for the free excel reader that I think exists ?
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Yiktiki on January 15, 2004, 11:41:45 PM
Its in my sig.
Title: Very nice <A suggestion>
Post by: Fruud on January 16, 2004, 04:18:38 PM
This is great, I appreciate Coprolith you putting this together and Yiktiki your contribution to the beastlord community is to say the least, well known I also want to thank you.

 I hope you two can collaborate and integrate each other’s tools. Good luck.

 I only have one small suggestion. Could the most recent version of dps093b.zip for download be placed in the first post? The link in the initial post was dead and I had to go several posts down till I found a working link for the download.

 Regardless, great job, kudos’ to you both.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on January 18, 2004, 08:36:42 AM
New version again, get it here: dpscalc.zip (http://members.chello.nl/~pg.deheij/dpscalc.zip).

(from now, i'll keep the name of the zip file the same so i dont have to update the links every time i make a new version)

What's new:

- On the statsnskill sheet, the fields where you entered your DW combo and 2HB have been replaced by Dropdown Boxes that list all the available weapons. When you select a weapon from the list, the stats of that weapon are automatically updated. This reduces the amount of input needed and lowers the chance of mistakes (unless of course, I entered wrong data on the DB sheets  :wink: )

- Added Augmentations!
I copied the augment list from Yiktiki's sheet and reduced it to a list of the ones that add extra damage or a proc to your weapon. You can only add augments to your weapons on the statsnskills page. Adding a proc to your weapon is done by selecting one from the augmentation dropdown box.
Notes:
- only +DMG, + Elemental DMG and +proc augments are implemented
- Proc augments use their own resist modifier.

As always, i rely on you guys and girls to bug test the sheet. If you find any bugs, or have a weapon or augment that's not on the list yet, please send me a pm.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Murkk Dakruul on January 18, 2004, 12:28:49 PM
Will you marry me coprolith?. :D

Awesome work.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: DiosT on January 20, 2004, 02:18:51 PM
could ya throw in combay fury coprolith ? :-)

i know the 3rd level is negligable, but maybe put in a .05 or something and people wont call it a bug when it doesnt update ;-)
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on January 20, 2004, 05:09:39 PM
Minor update this time:

- By popular request: (drumroll) ... Combat Fury and Fury of the Ages added (well..there were 2 requests anyway). CF and FotA are entered as one number: the sum of both your CF level and FotA level. E.g. if you have just CF1, select 1 from the drop down list. If you have CF3 and FotA2, select 5, etc.
- I manually updated the OH epic and the prismatic weapons to add their ATK bonuses to your input. This only works on the DB sheets, not on the front page. Haste on weapons (such as the OH epic) is not implemented yet
- Added 2 more Augments (thanks Argach)

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Hrann on January 20, 2004, 06:20:48 PM
This just gets better and better.  One question though:

The proc augments seem to just add the same dps as if they were primary procs (even if the weapon already has one).  I'm not saying this is wrong, but has this been tested and proved to be true?
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on January 20, 2004, 10:38:25 PM
Hrann, from tests performed by the the warriors and rangers the procrate of a augment is mostly the same as the primary proc.

As i understand it it works like this.
- The first check that is made is of the primary proc. If the check succeeds, the primary proc fires and no further checks are made.
- If the primary proc check fails, then the secondary proc from the augment is checked
- If the secondary check fails also there's a third check for spell procs, but this doesn't apply to BSTs.

So technically, the secondary proc rate should be a fraction lower then the primary. If, for instance, the primary proc ratio is 3% (3 procs per 100 attack rounds), then the secondary proc ratio is 97% * 3% = 2.91%. The proc rates would for instance be 2/min for the primary and 1.94/min for the secondary.
In practice, the statistical variation in proc rate is so large that you'll never see the difference, and the difference it makes in total dps is so tiny that i didnt bother to make that distinction. It works out to ~0.1 dps max or so

/hug
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Man0warr on January 23, 2004, 11:48:17 AM
Dont guess you can use this spreadsheet with just the excel viewer, wont let me edit my weapons and stuff, where do i get excel to be able to edit stuff
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Lizsolo on January 23, 2004, 07:28:17 PM
Quote from: Man0warr
Dont guess you can use this spreadsheet with just the excel viewer, wont let me edit my weapons and stuff, where do i get excel to be able to edit stuff

You buy excel.

However, try OpenOffice (http://www.openoffice.org)

That's free and works just as well and makes you all warm and legal and fuzzy and stuff.   8)
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Hrann on January 23, 2004, 09:27:33 PM
Thanks for the info Coprolith.  So basically everyone, from the non-raider to PoTime people, stand to gain ~6dps from LDoN procs.  Not too shabby.  Of course, it does mean that my non-raiding weapon will never be in the top dozen weapons in the game, even with 2850 LDoN points spent on it.  Oh well.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Hrann on January 23, 2004, 09:33:28 PM
Hmm, for other's edification, what this proc info also means is the the Trapped Specimen's Pitchaka, properly augged (16/20, with additional proc), is the best choice for an offhand weapon for a non-raiding beastlord (i.e. it is better than the Golden Wraps of the Compact).

Interesting stuff, really.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: haabbes on January 28, 2004, 08:36:27 PM
Great stuff!

I couldn't find this weapon in the database:

Architect's Scepter     
LORE ITEM MAGIC ITEM
Weight: 1.0 Size: MEDIUM
Slot: PRIMARY SECONDARY
Damage: 13 Delay: 21
Ratio: 1.615 Amazing
Damage Bonus: 13 (lvl 65)
Comparative Efficiency: 92
Offhand Efficiency: 38
Str: +12 Sta: +10 Agi: +8 Disease Resist: +7 Cold Resist: +7 Poison Resist: +7 HP: +45 Mana: +35
Weapon Skill: One Hand Blunt
Classes: Beastlord Ranger Bard Monk Rogue Warrior
Races: All Races
Slot 1: Type 4
Title: can...
Post by: Felpaw on January 29, 2004, 02:35:26 AM
can you add: radiant mass of affliction Augment from EC please?

Felpaw
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: shenker on February 02, 2004, 01:17:00 AM
How do you use this in layman terms. I am using openoffice.org atm. It just says error 511 in the dps areas and it looks kind of strange in some areas. I refuse to give microsoft anymore money than I absolutely have too so if I have to get excell it's gonna be via illegal ways but would rather not have to do that.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Zhamok on February 04, 2004, 05:29:08 AM
Just want to say great work. Don't know how you did it but you made life a lot simpler for me in choosing weapons and what items to buy with my LDON points. I now look forward to getting some augments for my weapons.  :D Again many thanks.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on February 04, 2004, 10:50:59 AM
- Haabbes: Architect's scepter will be added in next version.

- Felpaw: could you provide stats for the radiant mass? It's not on Allakhazam's

- Shenker: I don't know OpenOffice, so i can't tell you what error 511 means. Use the free Excel viewer from microsoft (linked in Yiktiki's spreadsheet page, also stickied in this forum

- Zhamok: you're welcome!  :)

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: shenker on February 04, 2004, 04:52:41 PM
K thanx anyway Coprolith. Well I'll just have to do some research and see if I can find out what the error means.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: shenker on February 04, 2004, 05:22:31 PM
Well been looking around ever since I first got the error and can't find anything specific about an error:511 message. I tried the viewer but it's only that just a viewer so I can't edit anything in it so it does not really do me any good. Oh well back to the shady ways.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Sempai on February 04, 2004, 06:39:38 PM
Radiant Mass of Affliction
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=42200
DD 150 Poison (-25)

I added it to the sheet myself, but others may not know how to do it.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Skol on February 08, 2004, 08:16:58 AM
Could you add in Gladiator's Jareed on the next one too, Cop?

Couldnt seem to find that one either.

Incredibly informative and useful for all of us out in the BL's world.

THX!!

Skol
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: dfirestein on February 09, 2004, 05:17:58 AM
When I download it, it doesn't find any files....
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on February 09, 2004, 06:18:35 PM
Small update:

- Added Architect's Scepter, Radiant Mass of Affliction and Gladiator's Jereed
- Put in a correction for proc rates of a few weapons conform the list linked in this thread http://www.shadowknight.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=19192&perpage=15&pagenumber=3 (http://www.shadowknight.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=19192&perpage=15&pagenumber=3)

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Hrann on February 09, 2004, 06:59:37 PM
I don't see the LDoN item Trapped Specimen's Pitchaka on there.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Ukator Iceblood on February 12, 2004, 02:24:38 AM
Poor Co, you are going to get so many new weapons over the next month hehe.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Mortan on February 12, 2004, 09:20:54 PM
Somethings to add the next update:


Weapon Affinity seems to add +10 per level to the procc rate modifier. WA5 increases the procc rates about 50%. Inital parses are  here (http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum/showthread.php?s=a242c222cd450edcc23c0369bb17ad79&threadid=5653).

+Combat effects aviable on some time level gear seem to add directly to the procc rate modifier. Raw data for that is  here (http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum/showthread.php?s=a242c222cd450edcc23c0369bb17ad79&threadid=5656). Altho they don't outright state that conclusion...it's farily intuitive from the data.

Sinister Strike seems to add 1/2 of your main hand damage bonus. I can't find the initial parses that confirmed this, I think The Safehouse had it, but I can't find it atm. It probably should be confirmed first. I would test it myself, but unfortunatly I don't have a baseline parse to go aginst.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Argach on February 13, 2004, 10:05:33 PM
Sinister Strike damage bonus changes according to offhand weapon delay - my 19 dly EPW has 5 damage bonus in offhand, my 21 dly CoW has 6 damage bonus in offhand.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Sempai on February 14, 2004, 06:42:26 AM
I have Sinister Strikes and Weapon Affinity 4 atm, should be 5 by Sunday.

I crashed today doing a parse and only got 30 mins. Will send one in once I get a few hours of solid data parsed.

Just thought I would give a heads up that it is coming soon so Cop can work the statistical magic soon.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Tastian on February 14, 2004, 01:19:33 PM
Yeah arg that's what I got.  Seems to be delay/3.5 with rounding of course.  21 del gave 6, 19del gave 5. Overall pretty solid AA and I'm glad I bought it with my initial 30.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on February 19, 2004, 10:42:57 PM
First GoD update:

- added Weapon Affinity
- added a few new GoD weapons

Still in the pipeline:
- Sinister Strikes
- yet to be discovered GoD weapons


/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Yiktiki on February 24, 2004, 04:35:42 PM
Yah, the viewer doesn't like macros and hidden sheets and stuff like that.  That is why I balked at an attempt to make the 'equip' page have dropdowns on my sheet, and why I had never added macros... it sucks to shut off anyone that hasn't shelled out the cash for Excel and I don't wanna force people to buy stuff to use my sheet.  Bummer that Open Office isn't more compatible.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on February 24, 2004, 09:18:57 PM
2nd GoD update:

- Added the Sinister Strikes AA ability. When checked, OH weapons will now get a damage bonus equals to ROUND(base delay/3.5)
- Added a few more new weapons

enjoy!

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Deathclaw on February 26, 2004, 11:31:20 AM
can not find Trapped Specimen's Pitchatka (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=23683) in the spreadsheet, or this aug Preserved Pyrite Crystal (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=42143)
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Zekr on March 15, 2004, 08:45:17 PM
Here is a 1hp for the database.

Progeny Claws
MAGIC ITEM  LORE ITEM  
Slot: PRIMARY  
Skill: Piercing  Atk Delay: 28
DMG: 15  
WIS: +8  MANA: +35  SV FIRE: +7  SV DISEASE: +7  
SV COLD: +7  SV MAGIC: +7  SV POISON: +7
Recommended level of 50.
WT:  0.3    Size: MEDIUM
Class: WAR PAL RNG SHD BRD ROG SHM NEC WIZ MAG ENC BST
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type 4: empty

ps  Great tool,  thanks
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Ryessa on March 25, 2004, 01:45:42 AM
GREAT tool, Cop!

One thing.. Fist of Mithril is listed as tradeable, but is not.  pretty much just of importance to those beastlords looking for the best weapons they can get without raiding :)
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on April 03, 2004, 08:16:50 AM
minor update this time, about 2 dozen new weapons and augs added.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Kerath on April 28, 2004, 08:25:29 PM
How come whenever I try to use this spreadsheet it wants to open up into Visual Basic for editing?
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on May 01, 2004, 09:57:08 PM
Not sure kerath. Maybe something to do with your settings regarding macros in excel?

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on May 05, 2004, 09:06:30 PM
May 05 2004 update:

- Made another weapon entry on the stats'nskills page for people to play around with. The stats for this weapon have to be entered manually. Its intended as a means to be able to quickly check on a new, unlisted, weapon should you discover one.
(Also, it takes the heat of me to update the spreadsheet regularly  :P )

- Added an equivalent proc damage value for the PoFire pet proc weapon (Thanks to Tastian for the excellent parses)

- added couple more weapons to the db.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Rholin on May 19, 2004, 01:32:23 PM
Is it at all possible to make it also available in Office 95 format?  I still have my Office package from '96 and haven't seen the need to upgrade yet.  Those packages are expensive! :)
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on May 19, 2004, 02:23:53 PM
Quote
Is it at all possible to make it also available in Office 95 format? I still have my Office package from '96 and haven't seen the need to upgrade yet. Those packages are expensive!

Yes i know, which is why im still working with office 97 myself. But to answer your question: no its not possible to make it available for 95. The spreadsheet uses Visual Basic for Office macros, which if im not mistaken (correct me if im wrong here, its been awhile), was introduced with 97. Excel 95 uses a different language for macros. Im sorry but it seems that until you upgrade you'll have to live with using the Excel Viewer.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Howlena Damoon on May 20, 2004, 04:40:34 PM
I just wanted to add my howl of praise to all your and Tastian's fine work, THANK YOU!  RAWR!

Would it be possible to make an equivalent guess on the hammer of the timeweaver pets without additional parses?
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on May 20, 2004, 08:25:22 PM
Quote
Would it be possible to make an equivalent guess on the hammer of the timeweaver pets without additional parses?

Without parses the best i could do is a guesstimate, but i still need to know some basic info such as how many pets per proc, how long before they disappear, and their min/max hit. By comparing those numbers with that of the SPF a reasonable estimate could be made.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Chubaka on May 23, 2004, 11:49:07 PM
Ok.  so now that I figured out the calculator, I checked all the 2hb to see how the dps would compare to my current DW-H2H config (see magelo) and there is only 4 of the uberest 2hb that do more than the 80dps the calculator currently shows me at.

Is this the case for everyone else?
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Akiri on May 24, 2004, 02:03:01 AM
Didn't see these in the database.

Living Stone Gloves (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=25232)

Awesome work on the database, I don't know how I did without this thing for so long.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Bengali on May 24, 2004, 02:37:00 AM
Quote from: Chubaka
Ok.  so now that I figured out the calculator, I checked all the 2hb to see how the dps would compare to my current DW-H2H config (see magelo) and there is only 4 of the uberest 2hb that do more than the 80dps the calculator currently shows me at.

Is this the case for everyone else?

I wouldn't be surprised at those results.  I recently got a Cranial Bludgeoner (41/24, procs dot for 400 total damage), and it was significantly less dps than my ED/EPW combo.*  I think a 2hb has to be truly insane to surpass dual wielding.

*NOTE:  Before anyone says that Brainburn is only 100 dd +3 ticks at 75 damage, my parses show that basically dots last an extra tick than what Lucy shows.  My theory is that there is a tick that is counted with the DD, and then 3 after that.  But in any event there were always 4 increments of 75 damage after the 100 blast.

*parses against Katta Banker, done in 9 minute increments so Fero wouldn't wear off.  About 1 hour of parses total.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Tastian on May 24, 2004, 03:43:22 AM
Yeah, as you progress (AA's, aug procs, etc) dw pulls way ahead of 2h.  2h is mostly for tanking and goofing off I've found.  Even things like the GoD 2h and the Staff of transendance don't parse nearly as high as most would expect.  

Derrict has started posting on the boards and I know his rogue off-hands timeweaver so it's likely he has some numbers on it.  I've got some data buried in old logs, but they are on my old box, so I don't have any numbers I'd actually post atm.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on May 24, 2004, 10:09:08 AM
Also bear in mind that there are 2 factors, which the sheet doesnt calculate, that causes 2HB dps to be underestimated a few percent compared to dw.

- Combat casting: the longer the delay of the weapon, the less melee damage you loose from casting spells.
- Riposte damage: the damage you do with your own ripostes scales only with the base damage of the weapon. Weapon delay doesnt factor into it, since your riposte rate depends on the mobs delay, not the weapons'.

These 2 factors are simply too hard to incorporate into the sheet, and they also don't show up on weapon parses that are done against mobs like the Katta banker. It may give 2HB dps a boost anywhere from 0 to 5%, depending on your weapons and playstyle.

And, as has already been pointed out, 2HB is still a viable option when you're tanking. When i'm doing LDoNs im using my 2HB almost exclusively, the main reason being there are a lot of mobs with a DS on 'em in LDoNs and those can really hurt when you're dw'ing (a'right so im too lazy too switch out weapons everytime i encounter one  :D ).
Add to that reduced riposte damage taken and increased riposte damage dealt. When you're tanking more then one mob at a time, riposte dps increases with the number of mobs (with 2 mobs you'll do 3x the amount of riposte damage in only 2x the time, with 3 mobs 6x in 3x the time, with 4 mobs 10x etc). All this combined is often worth the loss of melee dps. In my case, my 2HB is doing ~6% less damage then my dw-combo, but the mana i save on heals from my druid is now used for extra nukes and this more then makes up for the loss of my BL's melee dps. I put a LT aug on my 2HB for the same reason. Once i get my SHO+augs the gap between my 2HB and dw-combo will take a giant leap tho and i'll bag my 2HB again.

/hugs
Title: Some news GoD weapons to add
Post by: Aspro on May 30, 2004, 10:46:06 PM
Some nice toy to add to the list  8)

Handwraps of Captured Magic
MAGIC ITEM  LORE ITEM  NO DROP  
Slot: PRIMARY  SECONDARY  
Skill: Hand to Hand  Atk Delay: 19
DMG: 25  AC: 25
STR: +15  DEX: +20  STA: +25  WIS: +10  
INT: +10  AGI: +20  HP: +200  MANA: +185  
ENDUR: +185  SV DISEASE: +15  SV COLD: +15  SV MAGIC: +20  
SV POISON: +25
Required level of 65.
Effect: Invigorate (Combat)
WT:  0.0    Size: MEDIUM
Class: MNK BST
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type 8: empty

Drop inside Qvic

Demerix the Painsipper
MAGIC ITEM  LORE ITEM  NO DROP  
Slot: PRIMARY  SECONDARY  
Skill: 1H Blunt  Atk Delay: 26
DMG: 32  AC: 33
STR: +20  DEX: +15  STA: +15  CHA: +20  
WIS: +10  INT: +10  AGI: +15  HP: +250  
MANA: +230  ENDUR: +230  SV FIRE: +15  SV DISEASE: +25  
SV MAGIC: +20  SV POISON: +25
Required level of 65.
Effect: Serpent's Bite (Combat)
WT:  4.0    Size: MEDIUM
Class: WAR RNG MNK BRD ROG BST
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type 8: empty

Drop inside Inktu'ta.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Kashmiir Battlekat on June 02, 2004, 06:58:30 PM
Interesting Corp...

Your spreadsheet recommends Ethereal Destroyer Main hand and Battle Fists Off Hand according to my 'unbuffed' stats.

H2H - 1449 atk
1HB/2HB - 1382
Dex - 305
Haste 90%
BF5
AmbiDex Yes
SCF 1
CF 3
Weapon Aff 1
SinStrike - No
Estimated Mob Level - 55
Tanking - 100%

Ethereal Destroy MH
Battel Fists - OH
=================
87.98 DPS

Rune Etched Bamboo Bo
=================
75.74 DPS

Battle Fists MH
Ethereal Destroyer OH
=================
79.49 DPS

That just dont seem right. Did I do this right? Consider: I am doing this unbuffed with only self Alacrity for Haste which brings me to 90% haste.

Thank yuz :)
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Tastian on June 02, 2004, 07:20:06 PM
ED main hand is very nice damage for us.  Even with the stats given I'd definitely use it MH over BF unless aggro was an issue.  Once you max out Weapon affinity the ED will be doing ~35dps in procs alone MH.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Kashmiir Battlekat on June 02, 2004, 08:41:35 PM
Quote from: Tastian
ED main hand is very nice damage for us.  Even with the stats given I'd definitely use it MH over BF unless aggro was an issue.  Once you max out Weapon affinity the ED will be doing ~35dps in procs alone MH.

Holy Jeebus! Id be da debil with Weapon Affinity 5 :)

Im currently working on Spell Casting Fury2,3, then working Weapon Affinity 2,3,4,5 then Sinister Strikes. Damn thats a lot of AA.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Kashmiir Battlekat on June 02, 2004, 08:54:42 PM
PS: Hey Corp, I noticed you do not have Battle Fists in the list of Weapons :)
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on June 02, 2004, 09:28:49 PM
Quote
Hey Corp, I noticed you do not have Battle Fists in the list of Weapons

Yes i do, how else did you calc out those numbers otherwise?  :wink:

Anyways, about your dps numbers:
1) Just noticed a 'bug'. The proc dps numbers on the statsnskills page do not correct for the procrate modifier that some weapons have. There's less then a handful that have such a modifier, unfortunately ED is one of them. This is done correctly on the weapon pages, but not on the main page. Good thing you posted this, or it might have gone unnoticed. Will be fixed in next update. Thanks Kashmiir!
2) If i put those numbers you gave on the statsnskills page i get different numbers for dps (taken from the weapon pages, not the main page)

ED/BF: 91.36
REBB: 75.74
BF/ED: 82.63

Those numbers seem perfectly ok to me. What exactly is it that doesn't seem right to you?
As Tastian mentioned, the ED is a very good weapon for us. Our lack of innate double attack will mean our melee output will alsways be lower then that of a class with DA, but we get exactly the same proc dps from it as the other classes (because procs are tied to a combat round, regardless of how many attacks you perform in that round). So the weight of the proc dps on total dps is much higher for us then say for a monk. If i were you, while wielding that ED I'd get Weapon Affinity 5 tout suite  :D

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Kashmiir Battlekat on June 02, 2004, 09:33:19 PM
Quote from: Coprolith
Quote
Hey Corp, I noticed you do not have Battle Fists in the list of Weapons

Yes i do, how else did you calc out those numbers otherwise?  :wink:

/hugs

I had to type the dmg/dly/proc manually....

I download it, unzipped it, opend it in excel, enabled macros (cause I trust ya) and clicked the drop down list of MH Weapon.... nope, not there... dropped down off hand... nope, not there :)
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Kashmiir Battlekat on June 02, 2004, 09:34:53 PM
Quote from: Coprolith
Quote
Hey Corp, I noticed you do not have Battle Fists in the list of Weapons


What exactly is it that doesn't seem right to you?
/hugs

It just surprised me that ED in main hand over BF's. Interesting :)
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on June 02, 2004, 09:44:31 PM
Quote
It just surprised me that ED in main hand over BF's. Interesting

Oh aye, yer not the first to be surprised. I guess part of the reason is that the inital parses on ED were done by monks and warriors. For them, the ED melee stats dont outweight the proc, so they dismissed the weapon. Sempai once told me people thought he was crazy putting the ED in the MH and Shinai in the OH while passing on the Ex. Puresteel Ulak, but they forgot that he didnt have innate DA so the proc carried much more weight for him. But his own parses proved him right, and when my calculator showed the same thing i took that as very clear sign can predict these 'oddities' with confidence.

Of course, proc rates in the OH are halved, so equipping the ED there you'll waste the proc
/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Kashmiir Battlekat on June 02, 2004, 10:35:29 PM
Hey Corp. Thanks a TON for spending so much time breaking down that mathmatical nightmare for all of us. Its an incredible tool for us Beastlords to use.

I admit that this is the first time I have used it and Im impressed (shiny objects hold me in thrall too)
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on June 02, 2004, 11:03:42 PM
Update June 03 2004 (yes, its past midnight here)

- fixed a bug with proc rate modifiers. These were correctly calculated on the weapon pages, but not on the front page. As a result of this an extra column was added to the stats of the weapons (visible only on the 'ALL' page), that lists the modifier.
For instance, Fiery staff of Zha has a rate modifier of 0.5, that is, it procs 50% more often then 'normal' weapons.
- fixed a bug with OH critical melee hits. These were correctly calculated on the front page but not on the weapon pages.
(on the weapon pages the multiplier for MH crits was used for OH crits also. In the final analysis this makes an error of only about 0.1% but god is in the details  :wink: )
- added a handful of new weapons.

Enjoy!

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Aspro on June 09, 2004, 08:12:37 AM
Hi there copro.

I got a new toy last night from Pixtt Suir Mindrider in Yxxta and it's not listed yet.

Bonecast Rod
MAGIC ITEM  LORE ITEM  NO DROP  
Slot: PRIMARY  SECONDARY  
Skill: 1H Blunt  Atk Delay: 18
DMG: 19  AC: 10
Magic DMG: 2
STR: +20  STA: +10  WIS: +10  AGI: +10  
HP: +170  MANA: +150  ENDUR: +150  SV FIRE: +10  
SV DISEASE: +20  SV COLD: +10  SV MAGIC: +10  
Required level of 65.
Effect: Serpent's Bite (Combat)
WT:  0.9    Size: MEDIUM
Class: MNK BST
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type 8: empty

Proc is 100 Dd lifetap.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on June 09, 2004, 12:13:13 PM
Thanks, will be added in next update

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Caali on June 09, 2004, 03:45:57 PM
Great tool! I downloaded it today and played around some. The thing that shocked me the most was that my Savage Platinum Fists are ranked so high. In fact, I was downright floored. The difference isn't huge with an augment in the Battle Fists, my other h2h weapon, (125 DD atm) but still there roughly 4 DPS (101 vs 97). I browsed through the thread but didn't see anyone mention it. Were the SPF pets actually parsed or is that an estimate?
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on June 09, 2004, 05:32:19 PM
Tastian parsed the SPF pets a short while ago. From the dps of the procced pets i then calculated an 'equivalent' DD damage value, which turns out to be pretty high at 300 pts. Hence the high ranking.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Puddyx on June 15, 2004, 05:46:21 PM
Great work...!


>^,,^<
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Sempai on June 17, 2004, 04:39:54 PM
Oh great and powerful number cruncher, I have yet another question for your elite skills.

Any idea on the impact of Combat Effects? And if yes, any way to get it into the spreadsheet?

I know this has been extensively parsed by the warriors, but I am not sure if we can apply their numbers. I only have one combat effect item, so I am not sure I could offer a decent test yet. Once I have 2 I could do a bunch of parses to test it, but I have no idea when I will get another, unless my guild just wants to see me dead even more. :lol:

You know I love my ED, and even with some of the new H2H drops, I still think ED mainhand might be our top dps if combat effects works like I think it does.

On a side note, Handwraps of Captured Magic now have Serpent Bite instead of Invirgorate for your next update.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on June 17, 2004, 05:57:59 PM
Got the handwraps update.

Any chance you can provide me with a link to the Combat Effects parses, cuz i have absolutely no idea what it does, let alone if it applies to BSTs in the same way as warriors.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Tastian on June 17, 2004, 08:11:26 PM
http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5656
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on June 17, 2004, 10:24:27 PM
Thanks T. Judging by those parses, Combat effects seems to add a fixed amount rather then a percentage; 0.2 ppm per 10 CE in the MH and 0.1 ppm in the OH. I see no reason why this should work differently for any melee.

It should be easy to add that to the sheet, tho i hesitate about cluttering the input page with Time-focus effects that only a few people will have use for. Also i doubt we'll see any radical shifts in weapon rankings. But if enough people are interested in it, then it can be done no prob.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Sempai on June 17, 2004, 11:12:11 PM
Perhaps you are right Coprolith in that this would not benefit enough people. I double checked magelo and there are only 11 beast usable items that have combat effects from Time and GoD. Add to this items with the new focus effects of cleave I - III and ferocity I - III (the item effect), and it is getting more and more difficult to know for sure which way to go.

My hunch is that while the shifts are not huge, it does make a difference to those of us raiding on the high end. As you know, my guild is always pushing the latest content and I choose my weapons based upon your spreadsheet when I can. As we have proved together, ED mainhand was the right choice when others thought I was wrong and these new effects will impact my choices going forward.

Anyway, keep up the good work for everyone in the community. Even if you decide it is not in everyone's best interest to add it, I for one am in your debt for the great work you do for us all.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on June 18, 2004, 05:53:07 AM
Perhaps a wiser course of action would be to collect data on the other time-level focus effects as well and create a separate calculator for it, something like Tastian's AA efficiency calculator?

We should probably create a new thread for this in the Campfire of the Feral Lords section. Sempai, would you do the honors and start with an inventorisation of all applicable focus effects?

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Tastian on June 18, 2004, 06:17:07 AM
I have no problems making up another calculator for factoring combat effects or ferocity or cleave or whatever else people might want weighed in.  All I'd need is some data I might not have on my own, a basic idea how you'd like things set up and a few different people willing to beta different versions and give me feedback.  

Since we are talking mostly about Time+ type of gear and a much smaller selection of weapons I could probably even add drop down menus that would allow for weapon selection right inside of the applet/program/whatever so that you wouldn't have to bounce back and forth between the spreadsheet and the program.  That's up to you guys though.  If there's something I can do that you think would be useful lemme know and I'll see what I can come up with.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Sempai on June 18, 2004, 03:22:26 PM
I will start a thread about focus effects that impact weapon choices in that section Cop. I know most by heart. :lol:
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: bham on June 22, 2004, 06:13:36 PM
Used this for the first time.  :!:

Great tool! Many thanks.  :wink:

With my stats it seems Dedgerex's Flintforged Cudgel has seemed to equal or surpass Slave's Hidden orb as the best main hand weapon of choice. (depending on number of attack buffs)

Certainly DFC main and SHO off is better than my old combo of SHO main and the new Velium inlaid claws in off. And I only forked out the big bucks for VIC a week ago    :(

If the new aug removal stuff goes live I am gunna switch my 150 cold from SHO to DFC and 125 poison from VIC to SHO. I dont got the points right now to destroy them.

Only problem I can see is that you cant say you have the extra damage aug and a proc aug in your SHO. Then if you manually update the damage field of SHO so you can put the proc aug in the aug column, when you change to another weapon for another combo the damage field stays at 17 or whatever you typed in instead of updating.  :cry:

For what its worth, DFC procs for 625 not 622.

Also, proc damage does not decrease with mob level, making DFC seem even more attractive against these mob when actually proc resists will play a big factor.

Keep up the good work :)
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on June 22, 2004, 07:56:06 PM
Quote
Then if you manually update the damage field of SHO so you can put the proc aug in the aug column, when you change to another weapon for another combo the damage field stays at 17 or whatever you typed in instead of updating

There's several ways around that. You can use the custom weapon field at the bottom of the main page, or change the base damage of the SHO on the HtH-page, then manually add up the dps numbers on the HtH page.

Quote
Also, proc damage does not decrease with mob level, making DFC seem even more attractive against these mob when actually proc resists will play a big factor.

This is a unavoidable simplification i had to make. I simply do not have enough data to estimate the effect of mob level on proc dps. In fact, since mob resists can be set by SOE, its near impossible to put in a generalised relation between proc dps and mob level. But unless the proc of a weapon is unresistable (it isn't for the DFC), proc dps will change with mob level in real combat.
Currently the rule for proc resists is that if the proc has a resist modifier of -100 or better, then the proc always hits for full damage. If the resist modifier is less, then 20% of the proc damage is resisted, regardless of mob level.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on June 29, 2004, 02:09:43 PM
June 29 Update:

- I think I've found a somwhat better approximation of proc resist rates. It now has a slight dependency on mob level and now actually looks at the resist modifier for the proc. For those interested, the resist rate for proc dps is now calculated using this equation:

resist rate = (Mob_level - 35 + Resist_modifier/2) %

To facilitate this change, the "Resistable?" columns have been changed to "Resist modifier" columns, and they list the actual modifiers as per Lucy.

- Added 'Slave's Hidden Orb +2' to the database  :wink:

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Gnarloth on June 29, 2004, 11:10:43 PM
Hi Coprolith,

Firstly I just want to say that this is a fantastic tool! I use it whenever contemplating a new weapon/combo, or dreaming of future aa's etc. Because I'm not lev 65 yet, I know that it is not an accurate representation of my dps (but it obviously still shows me the best weapon combo's etc).

Just wondering as a suggestion for further down the track (on a dark stormy night when you have no fun parsing to do and tv is really boring) if you could add a drop down that would change the damage bonus based on what level your character is? Probably goes against the way the sheet is designed, so I'll understand if you say "take a hike bub", but it would be a "nice to have". Anyway, thanks for this great resource, and happy hunting.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on June 30, 2004, 06:37:30 AM
Hi Gnarloth.

Im planning something like this for when OoW is released and we get a increase in level cap. Chances are the damage bonuses are going to increase as well.

And who knows, maybe one day some programming and internet wiz will step forward and link the sheet directly into your Magelo profile and Lucy's DB  :wink:

(That wiz isn't going to be me tho)

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Xarilok on July 02, 2004, 09:41:03 PM
Adamantite bo stick proc is wrong.  Lists it as 75DD, when its a rain spell, used against 1 target, it does 75x3, used against 2 or 4 it does 75x2x2 or 75x4, but its rare to use it against more than one.  Simply changing the proc to 225 damage works well enough.

Also, would it be possible to update the spell procs to correctly list what the are....ie, serpents bite is a lifetap, and not a DD...

I would MUCH rather have a 75LT than a 125DD.

Also, possibly scaling "proc dps" to reflect lifetaps would be better too.

IE, enter tanking 100% of the time, assume you are at 95% health or less while tanking, so every proc heals you for the proc damage, effectively raising the "proc-value" but not DPS...

Maybe add a "proc effectiveness" column, with a value of LT damage*SCF+LT healing*HG*HA / % tanking.  This makes a 100 point lifetap worth say ~as much as a 200+ DD, but if you never tank, it would be listed as only half as good.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on July 03, 2004, 05:37:27 AM
Quote
Adamantite bo stick proc is wrong. Lists it as 75DD, when its a rain spell, used against 1 target, it does 75x3, used against 2 or 4 it does 75x2x2 or 75x4, but its rare to use it against more than one. Simply changing the proc to 225 damage works well enough.

I seem to recall that the 2nd and 3rd wave of a rain spell have a greater chance to get resisted. For 'specialty' procs i need confirmation of the effectiveness before i enter an equivalent proc damage.

Quote
Also, would it be possible to update the spell procs to correctly list what the are....ie, serpents bite is a lifetap, and not a DD...

Already done in June 29's update

Quote
Maybe add a "proc effectiveness" column, with a value of LT damage*SCF+LT healing*HG*HA / % tanking. This makes a 100 point lifetap worth say ~as much as a 200+ DD, but if you never tank, it would be listed as only half as good.
No. This is a dps calculator. Features like this are more applicable to Yiktiki's equipment spreadsheet.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Tastian on July 03, 2004, 05:38:35 PM
"I seem to recall that the 2nd and 3rd wave of a rain spell have a greater chance to get resisted. For 'specialty' procs i need confirmation of the effectiveness before i enter an equivalent proc damage. "

The greater chance to get resisted on rains 2nd/3rd wave was a result of coding that didn't let those waves kill mobs at certain HP levels.  This was changed, however, all rain spells have a built in flat rate 20% resist rate.  Even using tears (-300 resist mod) on a malosinsisisisisnsnisnisnisnina'd mob you'll still see ~21% resist rate.  Bo stick also suffers from having to adjust yourself so the waves don't hit you.  On some hit box mobs it's no issue at all, on others it just plain drags its teeth.  I'd put the proc at 180 tops, and honestly more like 150 or so baring your adjustments for resist modifier on proc dps.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Noxdowne Draggout on July 08, 2004, 06:15:29 PM
Shouldn't warders alacrity and warders fury be a factor in this DPS calculator considering that the SPF pet proc is affected by both?

I haven't seen anything on the 100 series file that shows the effect of those two things.

Did I miss something?

Nox
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on July 08, 2004, 08:28:42 PM
No you didnt miss anything. I am not going to program the effects of these weapons into the sheet just for 3 weapons that most of us will never see in the first place. Look up the effects of WAl and WF in the AA section and calculate it by hand if you need the info.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Noxdowne Draggout on July 09, 2004, 01:33:23 AM
I wasn't asking you to add it, I was asking if I was missing something on the dps calculator that pertained towards the two aa's I mentioned.

Good to know the DPS is even higher than is listed.

Nox
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: tkyn on July 12, 2004, 03:24:22 PM
You'll get a kick out of this Coprolith. I have horns of chaos and hand of honor as my primary weapon setup. I was recently awarded Caen's Bo Staff, and in swapping the setup out I was having trouble figuring out in the game what the difference in DPS was. So I DL the spreadsheet and plug everything in. The result, exactly the same DPS for the two setups, 72.18. Apparently with my quirky combination of AAs and augs on the weapons, it works out that I can swap the weapons out and get exactly the same DPS regardless. Go figure...
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: RabidMonkey on July 16, 2004, 12:10:55 PM
Fantastic, can't believe been this long for me ta have look at it.
Big thumbs up!
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: kromfear on July 17, 2004, 05:05:27 AM
Could this spreadsheet be used as a base for other class's such as a ranger? If I just set all the AA factors to zero could the dps numbers be considered accurate in relative terms to the ranking of the other weapons? The reason I ask is I would like to determine if the SHFD is as powerful on a ranger as it is on my beast.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on July 17, 2004, 05:26:06 AM
Quote
Could this spreadsheet be used as a base for other class's such as a ranger? If I just set all the AA factors to zero could the dps numbers be considered accurate in relative terms to the ranking of the other weapons? The reason I ask is I would like to determine if the SHFD is as powerful on a ranger as it is on my beast.

No, it would take quite a lot of changes. There are a lot of class-specific things going on behind the scenes, the most important one being innate double attack. (There are other, more subtle differences as well, like different skill caps and rangers are on a higher damage table if im not mistaken)

I can address the SHFD effectiveness on a ranger easily tho. The answer is no. Rangers, and all melee classes that have innate double attack for that matter, get less out of procs then we do, relatively speaking. This is simply because their melee damage is a far greater chunk of their total dps then it is for us. They get the same proc dps from the SHFD as we do, but the SHFDs inferior melee stats weighs much more heavily for them.


/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: kromfear on July 21, 2004, 05:37:31 AM
Thank you for your reply.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Choppin on July 21, 2004, 01:23:39 PM
minor thing,

serpents bite is unresistable (close look in lucy reveals it checks neg200 against unresistable lol)

:)
Title: Correction
Post by: Katsandra on July 23, 2004, 12:26:45 PM
Not sure if this was mentioned before.  But the Onyx Gavel is missing it's 2 Disease damage in the spreadsheet.

Thanks again for doing this I use it constantly for myself and friends.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on July 23, 2004, 02:30:59 PM
Thankee

Keep sending in those corrections!

/hugs
Title: found a bug
Post by: Haggatha on July 29, 2004, 02:36:10 PM
On 2 hand blunt, take a Vrodak's fighting staff. Attempt to augment it with a warm emerald shard. It will return #value in the proc dps field.

Its a really, really awesome spreadsheet by the way!

Haggatha Moles
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on July 29, 2004, 03:18:48 PM
Quote
On 2 hand blunt, take a Vrodak's fighting staff. Attempt to augment it with a warm emerald shard. It will return #value in the proc dps field.

So it does. Will be fixed in next update (prolly this weekend)

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on July 31, 2004, 09:13:52 PM
Update Jul 31

- fixed bug that caused the Warm Emerald Shard augment to return non-values
- added half a dozen weapons

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Noxdowne Draggout on August 01, 2004, 03:44:26 AM
A question for those that are far superior with math and EQ details than me.

If I am doing 125.38dps according to the dps calculator with using savage platinum fists in mainhand with velium inlaid claws offhand, what would my dps be with all pet aa's completed?

I did the calculation assuming WA5 level and with all offensive aa's completed.

Add to that warders fury and alacrity.

What would I see for a DPS increase on my weapon?

I have no clue as to what I would add and I am hoping a math wiz can take a quick peak into this to get an idea.

I am wondering if the new dps total would exceed 130 dps.

Thanks for your time.

Nox
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Tastian on August 01, 2004, 03:51:14 AM
Bleh yeah I'm awake, really I am.  Going from 0 pet AA to maxed pet AA if you are already doing 125dps and assuming your warder is doing ~60 dps, then yeah you would clear 130dps most likely.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Bengali on August 01, 2004, 05:21:40 AM
I think he was saying that if he does 125.8 dps with pet weapon and velium inlaid claws, would he get more than 130 dps *just from the weapons* if he maxxed his pet aa.

I suspect that he won't.  Hitting 130 would be a 4.2 dps increase in proc damage from the pets.  In my experience the spf pets are about 27 dps on average, and I have pet crits maxxed and two levels of flurry so the "naked" dps of the proc pets without aa actually would be less.  Even putting that aside, adding 4.2 to 27 is roughly a 15.5 increase in dps, and the data we've seen so far indicates that maxxing pet aa doesn't result in an increase that large.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Tastian on August 01, 2004, 05:51:42 AM
God dang it lol.  I originally answered the thread in terms of his weapons and what not.  Then thought "oh wait he must want pet included too since it doesn't just boost proc" now bleh bleh bleh.  

No you won't get a 5dps boost to the proc damage from SPF by max'n pet AAs.  However, with SPF + sorsha you would see that kind of a boost in dps from max'n pet AAs.  *shrugs* yet another one of them days.  8(
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Noxdowne Draggout on August 01, 2004, 12:03:03 PM
Thank you.

Nox
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Quartz on August 07, 2004, 07:44:42 PM
ok maybe i'm being dumb but i DL'ed the spread sheet and the Excel viewer (no excel unfortunatly) and i can't get it to work at all...

In the excel veiwer i just get a list of all the DPS's of all the weapons (everything LOOKS ok but i can't change anything)

And i have a Microsoft Works Spreadsheet program and with that i can change actual numbers in the cells but it doesn';t do anything to the rest of the spreadsheet (IE if i change my atk none of the DPS's change at all)

Anyone else have these problems?
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Dummkopf on August 07, 2004, 08:38:02 PM
Afaik you need excel, nothing else works except for viewing the spreadsheed without any possibility to change values and recompute stuff. So, either get an illegal version or buy it. Too bad open office cant use this spreadsheet, i still have to parse my own stuff tho (and most of the time im too lazy).
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: psycattik on August 17, 2004, 05:05:00 PM
Is there a good working link for the spreadsheet? One gives me an ancient looking version, the other link is dead.

psycattik
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on August 17, 2004, 09:01:37 PM
The link in the first post works fine for me and always contains the latest version. Maybe your ISP is blocking the url?

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Dummkopf on August 18, 2004, 09:38:26 AM
Hehe, my only problem is to get excel, can get the spreadsheet but isnt working on openoffice or excel-viewer.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Zatrik on August 19, 2004, 06:19:55 PM
Very nice work, I just wish the drop down lists would work on the Excel for OSX.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: JillieMT on August 24, 2004, 07:15:40 PM
Coprolith hon...

Wurmscale Fistwraps are 14/18, not 14/28. I use 'em! :)

/hugs back at ya!
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Oneiromancer on August 24, 2004, 10:12:34 PM
Also Ancient Gnarled Hammer (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=23139) isn't in the database.  I didn't notice it was missing until I updated to the far superior Velium Gemmed Warhammer.

Game on,
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Graace on September 02, 2004, 10:37:55 PM
hehe if our weapon caps get upped with the next patch... I hope it's not going to be too much of a pain to calculate all the new dps infos :P
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on September 14, 2004, 03:38:51 PM
Sept 14 Update:

- New skill caps for 1hb, 1hp and 2HB implemented. With todays patch the pre-65 caps for these weapon skills have been upped to 250. Since all caps are now the same, this actually makes things a bit easier. You no longer have to give separate ATK values (I'm assuming you're all going to work on increasing these skills tout suite  :wink: ).
Of course behind the scenes i had to cut considerably, but i think everything checks ok. If you find any errors please let me know.
- A few new weapons added.


-------------------


About OoW.

I expect there'll be significant changes in weapon rankings because of the level increase in OoW. To name a few
- damage bonus changes
- increased skill caps: weapon, offense and dualwield
- Possible increase in damage table
- Some new AAs
and of course the level increase will affect hitratios and resist rates as well.

When to expect an update: no clue, possibly never

I am currently on a "sabbatical" from EQ, and i don't plan to return anytime soon, unless SoE pushes those nifty parse mobs from beta to the live servers. Until then i'll have to rely on input from others to work out precisely how the changes affect damage output.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on September 18, 2004, 08:25:39 AM
Sept 18: First batch of OoW weapons added
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Shrouded on September 20, 2004, 10:19:52 AM
I'm getting that the .zip file is invalid or corrupted.  Anyone else getting this?
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on September 20, 2004, 12:25:19 PM
Repeatedly? Its downloading, opening and extracting just fine at my end.
Perhaps the file just got corrupted during download in your case.

/hugs
Title: You ROCK Cop
Post by: Katsandra on September 20, 2004, 12:44:55 PM
THat is all :)
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Oneiromancer on September 20, 2004, 06:49:49 PM
I probably won't really use a new version until the AAs are updated...but I should point out that the hover text for the ATK value still states that 1hb/2hb is ~ 67 lower than h2h.

Game on,
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on September 22, 2004, 11:07:32 AM
I have an 'experimental' new version online. It is my first attempt at incorporating player level (all the way to level 70). You'll see two new additions to the sheet:
- an input box on the statsnskills sheet where you can enter your toons level
- a whole new sheet with 2HB damage bonuses as a function of weapon delay and level. Im not entirely sure if the post 65 bonuses are correct, Lucy shows new db's when you display weapon stats at levels above 65, tho they havent updated their table yet. If you find any discrepancies, please send me a pm.

So far, player level only affects two things
- when changing player level, all damage bonuses should be automatically updated throughout the entire worksheet.
- resist rates of weapon procs now depend on the difference between player level and mob level.

What is not affected yet are
- hitratios. Mob level has been implemented for a long time, but hitratios are still calculated as if you were a lvl 65 beastlord with 250 weapon skills
- dw rate. This should go up post 65 as well, which would affect #swings/sec.
- Improved damage tables.

What this means is that in principle the calculator is accurate @L65 only. The further above 65 you get, the more melee dps will be underestimated, and the further below 65 you get the more it will be overestimated. As of yet i can't really say how bad the error gets for non-L65 beastlords. With increased hitratio, dw rate and damage table melee dps might be underestimated by as much as 15%. It'll take extensive parsing before these changes can be implemented tho.

For this reason i have not yet updated the link in the original post. However if you feel inclined to do a bit of bug-testing for me (there have already been some considerable changes behind the scenes after all, so i prolly missed a few bugs) or if you're simply curious how the increased damage bonuses affect weapon rankings, you can download the experimental version here (http://members.chello.nl/~pg.deheij/dps110b.zip). Otherwise, keep using the link in the original post.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Kanan on September 22, 2004, 09:06:30 PM
Coprolith.. just one thing:  You kick ass!! I love this tool you've made us.  Look forward to seeing how well this latest incarnation turns out.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Quinnotetiquan on September 25, 2004, 10:56:48 PM
Just a suggestion, you think you could factor in the DPS added to the pet proc weapons when the AAs Warder's Fury and Warder's Alacrity are purchased?
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on September 26, 2004, 06:34:12 AM
Quote
Just a suggestion, you think you could factor in the DPS added to the pet proc weapons when the AAs Warder's Fury and Warder's Alacrity are purchased?


Nope. They are irrelevant to weapon dps. They add exactly the same regardless of whether you're using a rusty knife or Handwraps of Ownage. If you want to know what these AAs do for you, use Tastian's excellent AA calculator, stickied in the AA discussion forum.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: tricky1971 on September 27, 2004, 08:00:19 AM
I've followed your posts across a couple of boards Coprolith and I have to say thanks!

Awesome work!

I hope your sabbatical is short lived.

Suut - Beastlord of Kara
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on September 27, 2004, 05:24:20 PM
I have a very big update on the level-dependent dps calculator, which can be downloaded thru this link (http://members.chello.nl/~pg.deheij/dps111b.zip) only. Hopefully this wil the last update of it and then the level dependent version will replace the regular one altogether. Before i say another however first a huge THANK YOU to Tastian. T has been parsing like mad since OoW's release and without his help this new version never would have made it.

Whats new?
- dualwield rates up to level 70 are now in and verified.
- hitratio is now calculated as a function of player and mob level. This data has been verified between L49 and L70.
- no significant change was found in the n vs ATK relation at L70 compared to L65. Essentially this has been left unchanged, except that the effect of skill caps on ATK has been incorporated. Thats a change behind the scenes, you still need to enter your ATK rating as always, but internally ATK is now properly split up into 'damage' and 'to hit' rating
- The OoW AAs Fury of Magic and Veteran's Wrath havebeen added. Since FoM is an extension of SCF, it has been combined with the SCF dropdown box in the same way as CF and FotA are.
- made several corrections that we're pm'ed over the past few weeks. Also updated the help notes ( :wink: Oneiromancer)
- Added bunch of new OoW weapons, including the new Epic 1.5. The proc characteristics you see in the sheet is special. This is not a weapon proc but a pet proc. Pets proc much more often then we do, but the proc rate is not affected by Weapon Affinity. In the sheet however it will be affected by WA. There's no way around that, i won't change the entire working of the sheet because of one weapon. The proc damage listed is an effective DD equivalent, based on 1/10ths uptime and pets proccing, on average 3x as often as we do

Best results with the new version are obtained between L60 and L70. Below 60, damage tables do go down noticeably. All is not lost however, as a weapon ranking system the sheet is certainly usable down to L49. And since i never bothered to enter the hundreds of gimp weapons that a L49- beastlord might still be using that's sufficient for me.

Anyways, its bugtesting time. So please download this new version (http://members.chello.nl/~pg.deheij/dps111b.zip), play around with it and report back any bugs or abnormalities you might find. If you're math and/or Excel savvy, feel free to hit ALT-F11 and browse thru the code as well. Questions and comments are welcome as always.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Quinnotetiquan on September 28, 2004, 01:07:36 AM
Not sure you understand what i was talking about in my previous post. When I purchased Warder's Fury and Alacrity the pets that came from my Savage Platinum Fists started flurrying and criting along with my warder. I know it only applies to 2 weapons (Savage Platlnum Fists and Hammer of the Timeweaver), but I was thinking maybe you could factor in the added proc DPS these AAs give when using these weapons
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Tastian on September 28, 2004, 03:19:51 AM
This has been gone over in other threads, but SPF pets gain from the AA just like your normal pet would.  Take however much dps your pet is currently doing in your situation and add on however much is appropriate for your current ranks of WF/WA.  That is to say that...

SPF pets = 15dps
WF = rank 2
WA = rank 3

Then you have 15(spf dps) * 1.013(WF2) * 1.048(WA3) ~15.92

The boost from pet AAs isn't huge by any means and SPF pets only do ~15dps anyway.  *shrugs*
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on September 28, 2004, 06:43:56 AM
Quote from: Quinnotetiquan
Not sure you understand what i was talking about in my previous post. When I purchased Warder's Fury and Alacrity the pets that came from my Savage Platinum Fists started flurrying and criting along with my warder. I know it only applies to 2 weapons (Savage Platlnum Fists and Hammer of the Timeweaver), but I was thinking maybe you could factor in the added proc DPS these AAs give when using these weapons


When I look at the work involved to implement this, not to mention the cluttering up of the interface, and weight it against the benefit gained, 1 or 2 percent better accuracy for 3 or 4 weapons wielded by a fraction of the community, then the answer is a definite no. My top priority is to get the general trends right. Next are AAs with a significant impact on the majority of weapons.  The 101 little things that are specific to only a fraction of the weapons are at the bottom of the list. Right now, the implementation of the OoW changes supersedes all else. As Tastian said, the data for WF and WA is out there, if you have a pet proccing weapon and these AAs, you can adjust the equivalent proc damage for the weapon yourself.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Volsykat on October 04, 2004, 07:36:35 PM
Cop, is the spreadsheet compatible with OpenOffice.org?  I load it up, but get missing variable errors throughout the whole thing.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Choppin on October 04, 2004, 09:38:42 PM
something for the spreadsheet, a bst only weapon lol

Cudgel of the Watchful Dragorn
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP
Slot: PRIMARY
Skill: 2H Blunt Atk Delay: 29
DMG: 69 Dmg Bonus: 42 AC: 30
STR: +20 DEX: +22 CHA: +24 WIS: +21 AGI: +23 HP: +360 MANA: +340 ENDUR: +340
SV FIRE: +20 SV DISEASE: +30 SV COLD: +20 SV POISON: +15
Required level of 70.
Effect: Freezing Strike VII (Combat)
WT: 4.0 Size: LARGE
Class: BST
Race: ALL
Slot 1, Type 8
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on October 04, 2004, 10:48:01 PM
Quote from: Volsykat
Cop, is the spreadsheet compatible with OpenOffice.org?  I load it up, but get missing variable errors throughout the whole thing.


No, it isnt. I've tried porting it to OO, but I just can't figure out why the macros won't work. I spent a whole evening just trying to get the code to execute past the first If..Then..Else statement but it simply won't. Don't know why, it's not a matter of syntax. Anyways i gave up on that. If anyone can figure it out and make an OO version that does work then by all means.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Volsykat on October 05, 2004, 01:54:55 AM
/sob, ah well...it doesn't diminish the effort put into it at all :)
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on October 06, 2004, 05:55:59 AM
Oct 6 Update:

Well its been over a week and no one pm'ed me any bugs about the level-dependent version, so im going to assume its perfect  :wink: and 'push it to the Live server'. See previous posts for a description of the changes. Other then that I've added I've added some more new OoW uberweapons.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Kinash on October 06, 2004, 05:03:01 PM
I have a quick Haste Question. Does tribute-based Haste add to spell-based haste? I usually cast Celerity on myself and I also have the Tribute based haste on also. Am I wasting Tribute?
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Oneiromancer on October 06, 2004, 06:21:21 PM
No, you're not, Tribute haste counts as worn haste, just like Tribute FT counts as worn FT.

Game on,
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Zentrel on October 07, 2004, 03:01:15 PM
Cop,

For the Epic 1.5 you have an innate proc of 75 w/ -50 adjust on it.  what is this for?  is it perhaps accidentally put on?



thanks.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Zentrel on October 09, 2004, 09:59:37 PM
nm
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Liandra on October 23, 2004, 05:41:40 PM
Found a weapon that isnt on the sheet

(http://everquest.allakhazam.com/equipment/fpics/steel_rod_of_the_knight.jpg)

it dropped during the 5th birthday Skelly Army event.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on October 23, 2004, 09:28:49 PM
Oooh yah, the ultimate twink weapon. I made a SHD and a WAR during the anniversary in case i ever to wanted play them as alts and equipped them both with one of these babies (not too mention every other item available  :wink: )

Will be added in the next update.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on November 01, 2004, 06:01:12 PM
Im looking for a volunteer with Excel-savvy to take over maintenance of the spreadsheet, to add new weapons and possible future AAs and such, since Ill be quitting EQ when my current subscription runs out next month.

Its not a lot of work but there's some quirks and tricks to the sheet I need to explain. So if anyone is interested please send me a pm.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Sempai on November 03, 2004, 07:52:54 AM
If no one picks up the ball, I might be able to keep this up to date.

I have a modified version on my machine anyway where I have done stuff like adding weapons and augments not listed. That is the easy stuff.

The new AAs, effects and skills which could impact us might be beyond me, unless someone else is coming up the the formula which I always considered your true specialty.

Looks to me like Tastian might be the new number cruncher, but he is already busy as it is.

Even if I did it, I would need a place to host it. As I am already full on my current available bandwidth.

Solve my issues and I can do the fluff work on it. :lol:
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Tastian on November 03, 2004, 12:57:44 PM
Bleh I think cop should just keep doing it so he can check in on us every month or so hehe.

I did the parsing for things like VW, level 70 caps, etc and I'll continue supplying data to whoever takes it over.  Just that I don't have the time to write up nice posts and make graphs and give MoEs like cop usually does hehe.  I haven't even had time to update my AA calc yet, so I really can't take over this too.  8(
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Trayn on November 14, 2004, 03:55:12 PM
couple on the new high end OoW HtH i didnt see on there

Fangs of the Serpent
MAGIC ITEM  LORE ITEM  NO DROP  
Slot: PRIMARY  SECONDARY  
Skill: Hand to Hand  Atk Delay: 21
DMG: 32  AC: 20
DEX: +11  STA: +20  CHA: +17  WIS: +21  
AGI: +21  HP: +280  MANA: +270  ENDUR: +270  
SV FIRE: +15  SV DISEASE: +10  SV COLD: +30  SV POISON: +30
Recommended level of 65.
Required level of 70.
Effect: Life Sap III (Combat)
WT:  0.5    Size: SMALL
Class: MNK BST
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type 8:
------------------------------------------------------
Crystal Hilted Shinai
MAGIC ITEM  LORE ITEM  NO DROP  
Slot: PRIMARY  SECONDARY  
Skill: Hand to Hand  Atk Delay: 19
DMG: 29  AC: 30
Cold DMG: 1
DEX: +30  STA: +30  CHA: +20  WIS: +20  
HP: +260  MANA: +255  ENDUR: +255  SV DISEASE: +20  
SV COLD: +20  SV MAGIC: +20  SV POISON: +30
Recommended level of 65.
Required level of 68.
Effect: Freezing Strike III (Combat)
WT:  0.4    Size: MEDIUM
Class: MNK BST
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type 8:
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on November 22, 2004, 02:19:54 PM
November 22nd update:
- corrected a tiny error in the calculation of crit rates that had snuck in during the recent major changes (crit rates were 0.5% too low)
- added more OoW weapons.

THIS IS MY LAST UPDATE!

I repeat my call for someone to take over maintenance of the spreadsheet. Send me a pm or an email if you're interested.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Sempai on November 22, 2004, 10:22:25 PM
Thanks Coprolith, your efforts were appreciated by me and many of our fellow beastlords.
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Zanai on November 23, 2004, 02:07:23 AM
hmm you sure this is correct according to the stuff ive enteredmy battle fists and savage plat fists are only a few dps less than the best 2hb weapon in the game ... just wondering if this was correct?
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Coprolith on November 23, 2004, 08:39:34 PM
Yeah it is. For weapons of equal quality 2HB will be doing 10-15% less dps then a dw combo.
2HB is best used when you're tanking mobs that hit so hard that damage spikes from ripostes would be a problem when dw'ing. But the new OoW AA that reduces ripostes from the OH negates that problem as well.

/hugs
Title: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Terrya Anuuazz on November 23, 2004, 10:40:53 PM
Even with the sickeningly mean damage ratio of a massive 2 hander, it's hard to overcome the power of dual weild.  I'm sure when comparable 1hander weapons come out, you wouldn't be able to even come close with the best 2 hander in game.  A monk might, but we never ever will without an even more obscene ratio weapon.

That's not to say that I wouldn't love to have that massive 2 hander, if nothing else but to say it was mine and see the great big hits from it.

Very nice weapon, and awesome work on the DPS calculator Copro.   You rock, and make my head hurt from all those formula's.  I love Excel and thought I was a formula guru, I felt like a 3rd grader looking at your formula's.   Thanks man.
Title: Re: Do-it-yourself weapon comparison and ranking (upd Nov22 '04)
Post by: Hilcea on March 16, 2005, 06:14:35 AM
This is Quite Nifty! nice job!

Oh and crystalline spider fang sin't on there either