The Beastlords' Den

Everquest 1 => Multi-Boxing Discussions => Topic started by: zurdo on May 10, 2005, 11:44:54 AM

Title: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: zurdo on May 10, 2005, 11:44:54 AM
Do I Make a Ogre Or Do I make a big Cat???????

BACKGROUND:

I am going to make a new Beastlord and multi box.  I would say I'm an intense casual player.  Casual because I hate raids but intense since my play time is as high as some hard core raiders.  I think I will solo/duo the new Beast to 60 but my long term goal is getting groups with the Beast then when theres no group-- duo with the druid but ---soon as I get a chance back in a high level group of 6 -(65+)with the Beast...

I like melee possiblites of the Ogre.. I think the Ogre might be the best duo match with my druid, matched with my druid, looks like Ogre could tank better than the Vah Shir... But in a group my Beast won't have to be Main Tank (I know the pet can tank  but 2 tanks is better)  Not sure if Ogre would be good for groups cuz of mana issues where he's casting slow alot and maybe mind buffs.

I'm not sure about armor either, maybe good Ogre armor is more rare and expensive than Vah Shir.  I'm kinda ignorant on what armor is available for Ogres (or the costs) since I've always been a pure human caster.  I do pickup groups mostly, not raids. 

ISSUES:  Armor Costs, Mana, and Groupability those are my big issues.

DONT CARES:  I don't care about race issues and faction, and the xp penalty doesnt seem to bad.  The cat does look cooler but I'm not making my decision based on that.

Everybody seems to pick the Cat and it does have alot of plus's to it... but the Ogre has some awesome stats... I don't want make the same mistake I did with my druid I made him as a human and have regretted it.

Thats the background... heres the QUESTION:

If good Ogre armor will cost a zillion plat more than Vah Shir or requrie  hard core raids, I need to make the cat instead.  If the Ogre doesnt have the mana for a group, i need to get the Cat.

Thanks for taking the time to read my long and possibly stupid question..but its not so stupid to me...

Zurdo
A Beast to Be Born Later........



Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: zurdo on May 10, 2005, 11:49:16 AM
One more thing... I did read the Race selection article on this site so I did my homework,,, but I still have these questions..

Zurdo
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: Nusa on May 10, 2005, 12:30:31 PM
Armor Costs: Most items you will want are usable by both races, so pretty much the same. You may even find your druid has some gear that can be borrowed to get you  past the early levels. Some crossover between leather classes after all.

Mana: Ogres starting wisdom is lower, but not so horribly low that gear wont fix it. I'd put all your starting points in wisdom for either race. Your mana pool will be big enough for slowing and buffing regardless of what race you choose.

Groupability: You didn't even suggest what the problem was here. Beastlords function pretty much the same in groups regardless of race. Ogres will get more requests to shrink, but Vah Shir are fairly big also. At least shrinking is free for us.

Bottom line, pick what you want and have fun. The issues you raised are non-issues, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: Knodey on May 10, 2005, 02:14:12 PM
cats get sneak! be a cat...

*quotes Rarrum* Cats will take over the world!
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: Thaeliun on May 10, 2005, 02:40:54 PM
I think that the most important question on race is which one will be more fun for you.  Once you are into your higher levels, it ultimately it won't matter at all which race you pick so fun is the best deciding factor.

I went with Ogre because I liked the bear.  The starting stats were just a bonus (one which made low level life a lot easier).  The one factor that I did not think about but which made a big difference was frontal stuns!  I don't get stunned from the front and it has saved my life and that of my groups many many times.  I've seen other BSTs get interrupted during a crucial pet heal in a tight situation and cause the whole group to fail.  This can be overcome later with AAs though so especially if leveling into AA range is going to be easy for you with a high level druid 2 box, it still really won't matter in the end.
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: Fangolor on May 10, 2005, 06:33:08 PM
Cats look cooler but I like the no stun from the front of an ogre if you want to be a tank.  In the end it doesnt matter.
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: zurdo on May 11, 2005, 07:19:33 AM
Seems like everyone says either race doesn't matter or.. get the Ogre for no stuns or get the Cat for sneak...

Never played a melee , but my caster has been stunned before so I can kinda see how this would be useful.

Sneak I don't really know much or how useful it would be or how hard to live without., is it like an invis? My druid can invis although it fails alot on other people....any thoughts would be welcome

thanks for all the comments..
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: Nusa on May 11, 2005, 08:09:50 AM
Yup, there are racial benefits, and talking about them tends to bring out the racial pride partisans. You very explicitly said you didn't want to hear about race issues, so I only answered your question above. But now that you've asked:

Sneak is better than an invis if you're out of the mobs line of sight. Doesn't matter if the mob sees invis or not, so long as it doesn't see you. Even if you ARE in the line of sight, aggro radius is reduced noticably. You do move slower when sneaking. Vah Shir only get it at a 50 skill, so you have to expect several tries to get it to stick. The secondary benefit is that it allows you to use any merchant, regardless of faction. Certainly you can live without it, but it's a valuable tool at times.

Safe-fall is the other Vah Shir benefit, also at a skill of 50. Goes quite a ways toward reducing or eliminating falling damage from hillhopping and or getting tossed by mobs.

The Ogre frontal-stun immunity is a pretty cool feature too, and unobtainable from gear, so far as I know.

Ogre's can slam too, but I suspect that has a fairly low value to most.

If I were starting over, I would seriously look at the Ogre myself.
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: jabby on May 11, 2005, 03:26:44 PM
for me the big issue with ogres is the xp penalty. up to 53 it doesnt matter but after that each lvl i noticed it more, and that was on my ogre warrior, who gets a bonus from being a warrior. (warriors and rogues get a bonus to exp)

but the frontal stun immune is *very* nice, if you do alot of tanking
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: Latang on May 11, 2005, 11:56:21 PM
There are times now that I wish I had gone Ogre, but that's mainly when I'm tanking stuff. The stun can be annoying, and my stun resist isn't good enough to shake it off very often. Sneak is worth it's weight in gold tho, and the lack of exp penalty to me weighs too heavily on the vah shir side to reccomend anything else. Cats > all =P

Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: Kivuli on May 12, 2005, 05:16:45 AM
You will be staring at your warder for a very long time and he/she won't change. You should consider whether you wish to stare at a Lucin-era tiger model or an original EQ-era bear model for the rest of your beastlord's career. It's a purely cosmetic difference but one that most overlook and regret later.
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: Zatrik on May 12, 2005, 02:35:23 PM
If you want to do a lot of tanking you can't do better than an ogre or iksar.  As for the wisdom difference, BLs are melees.  They're not pet clerics.  You'll get plenty of wisdom later on in life when it matters, and with BL crack and pot9 (or whatever your druid has) will be a good amount of mana regen.  If you go vah shir I would put the points in stamina, and for ogre put the points in wis and maybe bump agi to 75.  In the end, I don't think it matters a lot, I went iksar but there's times I wish I had gone for ogre for the no stun thing, or troll for the small pet.  There's no xp penalty on AAs and since you're going to be powerlevelling anyway I don't think it's going to be a big issue.
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: Gungagunga on May 12, 2005, 03:42:56 PM
Sneak is handy to have if you want to approach merchants or npcs that would otherwise not be so cordial to you but even using sneak successfully and walking in front of that same npc will get you killed if he doesnt like you that much.  Safe fall also kinda nice to have but with the hp regen available with bst crack and our regen spells occasionally taking dmg cause you go down to steep of a decline isnt a biggie really... now for the cons.  Cats eat at something like twice the rate as other races so you will spend alot more time summoning food/drink or buying more than you would with any other race.  I would go so far as to say anytime you see a Vah Shir 80-90% of the time your looking at a beastlord.  If you want to be remembered as something special your going to have to do something pretty awesome to set yourself apart from the masses for anyone other than your friends.

Ogre better starting stats on avg other than wis which is easy enough thru gear or ldon augs.  No frontal stun... I really cant say enough about this.  Before they changed casting time yesterday on pet heals if pet was offtanking and getting beat down i would simply stand in a position to take dmg from both my mob and his and cast that 9 second heal without interuption tho i'd likely be hit 4+ times.

*disclaimer these opinions taken from a biased beastlord who travels the path less chosen.

As for ogre gear if you need advice just take a look at my magelo in sig.  It is off 2 lvls and few ldon augs, AA's but gear wise everything but maybe 1 item is bazaarable and with server merges I would expect prices to drop so shouldnt cost you a ton of money to get most of what I have.
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: Dreead on May 12, 2005, 04:13:14 PM
Hello.
Iksar for the win.
Bassed on just our physical apperance, we rock the cat's world.
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: Constaq on May 12, 2005, 07:32:54 PM
Go with Oger.. Its just plain fun to park your lvl 70 focused bear in the hallway into pok from the Guild lobby... muahahahha.. Nothing but bear!

I love the no stun it drives me nuts when i do get stunned pulling and such.
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: Nusa on May 13, 2005, 01:14:38 AM
I disagree with the advice about putting starting points into stamina. There once was a really important reason to get starting stamina over 100, but that went away when they replaced stamina with endurance.

So much gear has stamina bonuses on it now that it's hard NOT to max your stamina with elemental level gear. My unbuffed stamina would be over 400 if the game allowed it, and I maxxed it long before I had some of my current gear. I didn't max my wisdom until I started getting time gear, even though I put all my starting points into it long ago.

And don't listen to the racial partisans that are starting to come out....make your own choice for your own reasons.
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: Gotog Ironskull on May 13, 2005, 07:44:39 PM
Oger more funner ta play den silly kitties wes also gots da bestested lookin dance in da game


Oger Boggie fevior.

I love Role Playing my oger beasty.  The Kitty dose get a few nice things like sneak and safe fall.  But there is like a gazillion of them and not to may Ogers.  Also Ogers dont get stunned from the front in a fight.  Which I really like.

But play what you like Play the way you like And if someone dont like it so what who paying for this account  any way.


Barsh On

Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: Dreead on May 13, 2005, 09:55:13 PM
Yea I agree with the above poster, there really aer a mass amount of cat beast lords. So I would say any race beside them :p

Anyway, yea don't put points into stamina, thats what I did, and I majorly regret it now, haveing over 430 stamina unbuffed i think. I would put points into dex or wis, those would be my choices if i knew now.
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: ebric on May 17, 2005, 03:10:04 PM
The stun advantage can be gotten out of a bottel in the baz. the potions are cheap enough.

I am a barby....as I was so sick of seeing all the car beast running around. That said I wish I had sneek.

Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: Nusa on May 17, 2005, 07:33:04 PM
Which bottle?
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: zurdo on May 18, 2005, 06:39:24 PM
I want to thank everyone for all the Great comments.

Sorry for the confusion I caused with the original question when I said I wasn't intersted in race issues.  What I really meant was I was interested in the pros an cons of the cat an the ogre, but ... vendor npc faction hate brought didnt matter to me.  But it all sorted out. 

Looks like I have all the info lol but I still havent made up my mind.
I still have time to think about it tho. 

Anyways Thanks all, this is a great class forum.
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: Knodey on May 19, 2005, 02:15:47 PM
sooo what race did you choose???
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: Dreead on May 19, 2005, 10:40:32 PM
Yea you got us all hooked now, can't leave us in suspense!
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: zurdo on May 29, 2005, 09:12:32 AM
Ok ..

I think I'll go with the cat.

Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: kithilin on June 01, 2005, 10:30:12 AM
Good choice. I went the same way myself and have never regretted it.

Stats are so easily made up through gear and such that I don't consider that to even be an issue.

Obviously both of the options have their advantages, but you really just have to go with you fits you best.

For me that was the cat and I have no doubt you will enjoy it. Even if only because you will find how to navigate your way through Shar Vahl when everyone else gets lost there.
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: Omagis_Narlavin on July 17, 2005, 01:33:44 AM
I went with Barbarian because, well the wolf just looks so kick arse =p. Plus i wanted to look alittle more human like thats just me. I believe cats are alittle over played, i would love to see alot more trolls!!! :evil: just because theres only like 3 high end troll beastlords on prexus. poor little geco =/...
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: Dakat on July 17, 2005, 04:08:02 AM
Ogre's drule and Cat's Rule.

I've went with the cat due to the pet and having a tiger as a pet rocks.  If in real life a Tiger would eat a grizzly for lunch then feed his poop to a dog.

Non - joking though here are some advantages to being an Ogre.  Higher STA at the start will give you over 600hp difference of another race at level 60 wearing the exact same gear (based off the measurements made from an Ogre war and a Human war several years ago). Not being stuned from the front (mentioned previous). Forget me if I am wrong but Ogre's also get SLAM? Which is a stun if it lands (same as bash) which is extra damage that a Cat does not get.
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: Constaq on July 18, 2005, 05:24:31 PM
Slam  heh Havent done that in a long time... The no frontal Stun is cool and extra HP's rocks in the E-Bunny world. Personaly  I went with oger cus of the Cool Head band graphic you get! /moan

ON a side note.. wish they would update the graphics on em the Ldon Bears that stand upright rock and the Cats in Don are cooler than the Tiger. but then i guess  the wolfs and gator would need new updates to.
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: smuzz on July 23, 2005, 09:19:19 PM
I picked ogah because well, they are hot sex....seriously tho, i picked it because no stun from front is helpful *beast slow sucks, face it gets resisted a bit* and you ever try to get a slow off while being stunned? Not my idea of fun. I soloed most of my levels *1-63?" and it helped a bit. Slam for them stupid casters/gater mobs is nice. Gear will make up all the lack of stats, at 65 my wis is just under max for level with baz gear mainly and im un-augged. Mainly tho it all depends on what you like and have fun playing. If i pciked anything else it would have been iksar tho.
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: Ustacalu on March 14, 2013, 08:24:23 AM
Having read this (and similar) post I would like to ask ;
1. does racial exp difference still exist ? (ie. ogres need more exp for leveling compared to vah shir)
2. are ogres still immune to stuns from frontal attack ?
3. is there a way for vah shir to prevent getting stunned ? (potions or gear or maybe some specific aa skill ?)

I started my kitty beastlord with enthusiasm. I like to get my tanking abilities to a maximum ( I like this sort of play) but getting stunned a lot makes me sick. I can take it for low levels if there is a cure later on but if there is none then I am afraid I might regret making a vah shir bst.
Fot reasons explained I toy with the idea of making a new ogre bst as I havent burned much time for my kitty bst yet. But in that case I might have some faction problems , I am not very much bothered with exp penalty unless it is really huge difference that will make me sweat at higher levels.

I realy wish to hear some good advice from experienced beastlords.

Not : Why does this site look so much deserted these days ?
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: Zunar on March 14, 2013, 05:24:42 PM
As I recall it, the racial exp penalties were removed.
Ogres are still immune to stun from the front.
There is no way for Vah Shir to avoid geting stunned, alas, there is an AA line to allow casting a spell through the stun.
I personally play a Vah Shir, and I've never had a huge issue with stuns and tanking.
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: Nusa on March 14, 2013, 06:05:02 PM
Quote from: Ustacalu on March 14, 2013, 08:24:23 AM
Having read this (and similar) post I would like to ask ;
1. does racial exp difference still exist ? (ie. ogres need more exp for leveling compared to vah shir)
2. are ogres still immune to stuns from frontal attack ?
3. is there a way for vah shir to prevent getting stunned ? (potions or gear or maybe some specific aa skill ?)
1) No, all the racial and class penalties went away long ago. However, the halfling, warrior, and rogue exp bonuses remain. None of those matter to a beastlord, of course.
2) Yes, stun immunity from frontal melee stuns only. Spell based stuns will still happen.
3) Warriors of any race can get the same ability via AA. But we aren't warriors, so no. Improving defensive AA and gear is going to reduce how often you get hit, which means fewer melee stuns as well.

You don't have to restart to change race anymore. You can buy a race change potion in the marketplace if you really want to switch. Or switch back. Remember, Vah Shir are the only beastlords who get sneak....an extremely useful ability at times, assuming you understand it.
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: stubar on March 15, 2013, 06:57:40 AM
I changed to Ogre the second the racial potions surfaced. I haven't looked back since.

If you like to solo/molo/tank, I can't recommend the ogre enough...LOVE my stun immunity.  While melee stuns don't last that long, they are still a PITA and can cause an untimely death if it happens at the wrong time.
Title: Re: Race Question: Ogre or da big Cat
Post by: Khauruk on March 15, 2013, 05:49:42 PM
What that guy said.  Ogre is amazing, sneak is rarely useful but stun immunity is used all the time for me and always has been.

Plus the bear.