This isn't a placeholder, since I don't have enough time or inclination to clean this up more.
I did some parsing today to answer the question of just how much dps does damage bonus add for us, and how does that change with different delay weapons. I'll toss the math stuff in later (and state my assumptions, which might change it slightly...I need to look up more about heroic str to be able to adjust this for differing amounts).
Basically, with ~40 Heroic STR, each point of delay lowered is worth an additional .016 tacked onto the damage/delay ratio...
Note: This was against a grey-con mob, so it's a best-case scenario where you're hitting for max very often. As you progress toward raid mobs, damage bonus will make up more of your dps, and the faster weapons will tend to be better. How much is not known, and it would be great if somebody does more extensive parsing against a test 95. I can tell people the exact numbers I need from a single-target parse if anybody's interested, however.
An example:
weapon 1: 38dmg/19 delay
weapon 2: 39dmg/18 delay
Weapon 1's basic dmg/dly ratio is 2.0
Weapon 2's is 2.167
Now, to make this a normalized ratio w/ my Heroic STR, weapon 2 is actually an ~ 2.183 adjusted ratio when you account for damage bonus.
What does this tell us?
It tells us that it takes a difference of 0.128 in weapon ratio to "overcome" a very large delay difference (from 26 to 18 in this case), a difference of 0.08 for a 5 delay difference, etc....
Or: It tells us that you can simply take dmg/delay, and choose the "superior" weapon from that alone unless the ratio is *very* close.
see, I'm confused thoroughly by this stuff, xangefs nightmace for example.. 54/26 (2.076) is thoeretically better than 38/19 (2.000) but is it really ? Theres a 1hb from Kaesora library, 48/24 or so, would it be best to mainhand xangefs and o/h the other ?
I R Crapo at parsing stuff ;)
First, look at the large bolded part I just added a moment ago.
And, if you adjust the ratio as specified above, the 38/19 works out to a 2.128 (2.00 + 0.016 * 8 ), so slightly better.
It will gain on the 1hb an unknown (though probably not huge) amount against mobs w/ higher defense/AC. It will also gain much more if you get a pure damage aug to put in it.
Well then this begs the question of the group weapons in SoD which are the best of the bunuch to get? I currently have a Dire Cesti and Xangef's Nightmace waiting for me when I get to 85 (only 84 atm) should I be on the look out for other rot weapons other than these 2? I was told by another BST on my server those were the "best" of SoD group weapons based on what you posted it sounds like it's not so much any more..... So what would be the best pair?
The h2h from Korascian Warrens might be worth looking at as well - it's 39/18, and might outparse the mace in offhand. Dunno though.
Quote from: Khauruk on February 06, 2009, 12:18:40 AM
First, look at the large bolded part I just added a moment ago.
And, if you adjust the ratio as specified above, the 38/19 works out to a 2.128 (2.00 + 0.016 * 8 ), so slightly better.
It will gain on the 1hb an unknown (though probably not huge) amount against mobs w/ higher defense/AC. It will also gain much more if you get a pure damage aug to put in it.
But when you adjust the Xangefs for damage bonus too ?
Quote from: Karve on February 08, 2009, 12:54:12 PM
But when you adjust the Xangefs for damage bonus too ?
You don't. The whole point of this is trying to see how a faster delay affects the mainhand...the slow one is your baseline, and you're adjusting the faster one to mimic the slightly greater dps it gains from the speed.
Best SoD groupable combo - going by actual ratio - I've found is.
Mainhand: Dire Cesti (Dranik) + Crystal Embedded Discord Stone (T5 random drop)
Offhand: Dagger of Darkflaying (Dranik) + Crystal Embedded Earthbound Stone (T4 random drop)
how about the crits?
seems with xangef mace the crits are much higher then with the cesti?
can crit very regularly over 1k crits
and our discs seem to work in favour of the high damage weapons
have a bigger impact on it.
anyway would need a actual parse.
Quote from: rhaug on February 09, 2009, 07:15:03 AM
how about the crits?
seems with xangef mace the crits are much higher then with the cesti?
can crit very regularly over 1k crits
and our discs seem to work in favour of the high damage weapons
have a bigger impact on it.
anyway would need a actual parse.
A higher damage weapon will have higher crits. A faster weapon will crit more often. Crits are irrelevant here, as the formula is the same for either weapon (and damage bonus afaik is not crittable). We don't get X crits per minute regardless of weapon - we have a % chance to crit per swing.
Our discs work in favor or better weapons - I can't think of a single disc outside of riposte discs (which we don't get) that work better w/ higher damage weapons vs. better ratio weapons.
thank you
think i move my verdant emerald of wounding to my dire cesti then
and experiment a bit wit parses
need to get some crystallos weapon augments or the tier 4 5 sod
will try to farm crystallos a bit then.
Gonna derail a little bit and ask this same question about the offhand. If there was a choice between the xangef and the 38/19 h2h wep, which would be better in the offhand? The ratios are close but I am unsure how/if the oh damage bonus would effect this.
The answer would depend on whether you plan to use a damage aug or not. A damage aug would change the whole ratio comparison.
As for the offhand damage bonus (which is 0 if you haven't bought Sinister Strikes AA), it's much smaller and unlike the mainhand it scales with weapon delay so pretty much drops out of your decision. Delay/3.5 is the number the warrior boards quote, if I remember correctly.
Quote from: trixbro on June 04, 2009, 07:08:44 PM
Gonna derail a little bit and ask this same question about the offhand. If there was a choice between the xangef and the 38/19 h2h wep, which would be better in the offhand? The ratios are close but I am unsure how/if the oh damage bonus would effect this.
Xangef and Knuckles do pretty much the same DPS offhand, until you add damage augs, then Knuckles will pull ahead of Xangef. If you can get it, the Dagger of Darkflaying, will outdo the Knuckles in offhand once you get a damage aug in it, since they are same delay but dagger is 1 damage higher.
Thanks, exactly what I needed to know. I have limited playtime, so everyones help here really maximizes what I can accomplish.
hello ppl
Is there a better weapon than the FSPF that is groupable?
Anything from UF that is better ?
I cant help but look at the FSPF and the stats look so weak.
When does Hp and atk and all the other come into effect?
Thanks for any help
Rnan
Is there a better weapon than the FSPF that is groupable? Yes.
Anything from UF that is better ? Yes.
I cant help but look at the FSPF and the stats look so weak. On weapons, only look at item's ability to deal damage. Other stats are nice, but they're not the point of weapons...you can get those stats on other items. For the FSPF, it's the pet proc that increases it's value so much, not the ratio. Note that the value of procs is NOT the point of this thread.
When does Hp and atk and all the other come into effect? It usually doesn't, unless you have two weapons that virtually of the same value combat-wise.
hello Nusa
can you throw me a bone as to what weapon i might be looking for
to replace the FSPF ?
Thanks
Rnan
No recommendations, as I'm raid-geared, but I'd start here:
http://raidloot.com/Search.aspx (http://raidloot.com/Search.aspx)
Select Class=Beastlord, Type=Weapon_1H, Source=Group, Order=WeaponRatio. Click Search.
When I look at a weapon, ratio and then procs are the only considerations I give for whether or not to use it. Anything else is pure gravy.
If I could get a 150/10 weapon with 0 other stats, I'd jump all over dat, vs a 20/20 with 10k hps.
yes, these are extreme examples, but I hope it further illustrates the point of the exercise. GENERALLY, ratio is king (in some few, far rarer cases, there is sufficient proc dps to compensate for the poor ratio)