The Beastlords' Den

Everquest 1 => The Campfire => Topic started by: Sikkem on April 30, 2010, 03:16:26 AM

Title: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Sikkem on April 30, 2010, 03:16:26 AM
apparently will be done in the June patch
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Khauruk on April 30, 2010, 03:20:23 AM
boo...hopefully I don't die to it as much as I let my pet get killed nowadays :P
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Hzath on April 30, 2010, 04:38:12 AM
boo...hopefully I don't die to it as much as I let my pet get killed nowadays :P

me too
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Grbage on April 30, 2010, 05:09:48 AM
Gah, not a fix I was looking forward to. I wonder how much retuning they'll have to do to mobs once it is fixed. Riposte damage is huge so mobs will be pumping out more dps.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Zunar on April 30, 2010, 10:48:44 AM
Gah, not a fix I was looking forward to. I wonder how much retuning they'll have to do to mobs once it is fixed. Riposte damage is huge so mobs will be pumping out more dps.

I thought the riposte bug only had to do with enraged mobs (below 10% HPs)....don't mobs riposte attacks at all as it is now?
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Karve on April 30, 2010, 01:52:22 PM
It will highlight just how squishy we are and then we can ask for more + stats instead.

It would be nicer to see corpse timers of 5 hours so you can do an evenings raiding and AA rez all your corpses in one go instead of fixing this.. ahem "feature" we know and love ;)
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Grbage on April 30, 2010, 02:25:47 PM
Gah, not a fix I was looking forward to. I wonder how much retuning they'll have to do to mobs once it is fixed. Riposte damage is huge so mobs will be pumping out more dps.

I thought the riposte bug only had to do with enraged mobs (below 10% HPs)....don't mobs riposte attacks at all as it is now?

Enrage immunity a big thing but enrage is just a 100% riposte mechanic. So, the most obvious place to see this bug at work is on enraging mobs.

With this fiixed all those hard hitting mobs will be landing more blows as they can now riposte your attacks. That's why if you read the thread on eq forums Elidroth said they will have to proceed carefully with implementing a fix as it can break tuning. Matter of fact, this bug was first introduced with monk auras back during PoR then was propagated to other classes with SoF when return kick was introduced. That's one heck of a lot of content fixing this bug can break tuning wise.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Bumkus on April 30, 2010, 02:38:42 PM
This will affect all melee in the DPS rankings.  Even if they don't die, they will need to spend a measurable amount of time not attacking.  It may not seem like much but even 5 seconds in a 100 second fight is 5%.

Actually, it's been so long since I've watched for enrage, I don't remember how long it lasts.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Bumkus on April 30, 2010, 05:06:38 PM
Man, I was just reading through the EQ forums.  At first I was just thinking about Enrage, but even the random normal ripostes are just gonna hose us.  If this fix goes through, we might wanna consider switching to range dps classes. 
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Catnip_Inny on April 30, 2010, 05:42:18 PM
no more tanking any UF stuff for this bst... was pretty touch and go and id die often enough... with the immunity gone no way ill survive lol..
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Camikazi on April 30, 2010, 06:04:27 PM
Actually, it's been so long since I've watched for enrage, I don't remember how long it lasts.

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=4612&source=Live - it's a spell scripted to be cast at around 10% or so (that is why our pets can get killed from 11% straight to dead, there is a delay in the triggering of it), says 2 ticks which is about right, 10-12 seconds duration.

Wonder if tuning for the game will get thrown off, cause I am sure the tanks they used to tune and test in Beta had this AA bought so all tuning was done without ripostes at all, meaning DPS taken just went up in all expansions from SoF and up.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Grbage on April 30, 2010, 06:48:50 PM
I'll gaurantee you the tuning was done using tanks that had bought return kick. Most the people in betas keep up on what is going on via the boards and that bug spread like wildfire.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: wildwaters on April 30, 2010, 08:27:51 PM
This is a bad idea... I say keep the bug as a feature.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Vidyne on April 30, 2010, 08:35:41 PM
Oh well, tanks need more healing now.  :(
I can't help balance push now by being on the front side of a mob.  :(
Enrage will kill people again.  :(  :)
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Dragonfangs on April 30, 2010, 08:47:22 PM
This is going to be great for the first few weeks, watching everyone die from it. As long as they fix every aspect of it that was bugged, monk aura included, I do believe it will be rather fun to watch.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Khauruk on May 01, 2010, 05:48:08 AM
This is going to be great for the first few weeks, watching everyone die from it. As long as they fix every aspect of it that was bugged, monk aura included, I do believe it will be rather fun to watch.

Heh...I'm trying to remember what the monk aura was actually supposed to do, and failing entirely....help?
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: bradam on May 01, 2010, 02:49:42 PM
This is going to be great for the first few weeks, watching everyone die from it. As long as they fix every aspect of it that was bugged, monk aura included, I do believe it will be rather fun to watch.

Heh...I'm trying to remember what the monk aura was actually supposed to do, and failing entirely....help?

  Master's Aura Effect

Slot 3:  Increase Chance to Riposte by 10%
Slot 4:  Increase Chance to Parry by 10%
Slot 5:  Increase Chance to block by 10%
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Grbage on May 01, 2010, 02:50:18 PM
Think it was something like +10% to parry, riposte and block.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: bradam on May 01, 2010, 02:57:32 PM
This sure is gona be interestering to see what comes out of the dev's messing with this  haha



Over at http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?&topic_id=163421


Elidroth  wrote

"
 It's not something we're going to change on the fly.. we need to be sure this won't have some huge game-breaking impact. It really depends upon how much NPCs, especially raid NPCs are supposed to riposte.

Just changing it and removing this immunity could break a lot of current tuning.
 "

So maybe we can push for a AA to make warder auto back off on enrage now?   :evil:



Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Dragonfangs on May 03, 2010, 04:43:34 AM
So maybe we can push for a AA to make warder auto back off on enrage now?   :evil:

An AA that always makes the warder attack from the rear of the mob would be slightly more interesting. It could fit in with the warders "animal instincts" taking advantage of the opponents weak spots. Though the auto back off could be worked into something along those lines as well. Either of those would likely be a triggered abilitity though
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Brane on May 03, 2010, 06:55:05 AM
Quote from: bradam
So maybe we can push for a AA to make warder auto back off on enrage now?   :evil:

It is called Companions Relocation lazybones.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Camikazi on May 03, 2010, 12:55:45 PM
Quote from: bradam
So maybe we can push for a AA to make warder auto back off on enrage now?   :evil:

It is called Companions Relocation lazybones.
You would have to turn around to use it which would most likely lower your DPS, unless you are on the front of the mob.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Grbage on May 03, 2010, 02:14:33 PM
So maybe we can push for a AA to make warder auto back off on enrage now?   :evil:

An AA that always makes the warder attack from the rear of the mob would be slightly more interesting. It could fit in with the warders "animal instincts" taking advantage of the opponents weak spots. Though the auto back off could be worked into something along those lines as well. Either of those would likely be a triggered abilitity though

For ratiolization we can point to herding dogs. There are two types, head and heel dogs, which describes their natural inclination as to which end to control a herd animal from. Heel dogs are the more desirable of the two, nipping at an animals backside works much better then trying to lead them around by the nose.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: bradam on May 03, 2010, 03:45:18 PM
Quote from: bradam
So maybe we can push for a AA to make warder auto back off on enrage now?   :evil:

It is called Companions Relocation lazybones.

I'd be happy with a rank 2 of relocation that just punts warder behind me instead of infront of me so i can keep hacking away  =)

Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: nedoirah on May 04, 2010, 01:10:29 AM
I guess I won't be off-tanking mobs to help control adds anymore. I used this bug to do that. I just hope UF will not become unplayable after this.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: bobokatt1970 on May 04, 2010, 10:18:23 PM
I hit Divine Companion's Aura as the raid mob enrages (God I wish it was insta cast) -- if that even works... seems to!.  Figured this bug would be fixed eventually... thus far have not lost my pet in months other than plain old wipes.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Brane on May 05, 2010, 03:37:28 AM
Quote from: bradam
So maybe we can push for a AA to make warder auto back off on enrage now?   :evil:

It is called Companions Relocation lazybones.

I'd be happy with a rank 2 of relocation that just punts warder behind me instead of infront of me so i can keep hacking away  =)

In most cases I am faster then my pet, I run to back of mob, press Summon Companion AA (its instant), pet attk. Instantly correctly placed pet. :)
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Camikazi on May 06, 2010, 12:14:17 AM
Well we are getting another month of immunity, they are not making changes for this months patch.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: AbyssalMage on May 06, 2010, 12:52:08 AM
In most cases I am faster then my pet, I run to back of mob, press Summon Companion AA (its instant), pet attk. Instantly correctly placed pet. :)

The AA will allow you to summon him while he has agro?

I only ask cause the clicky, I use, (and the spell if I remember correctly) wont allow you to summun if he is on any NPC's hate list.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Sikkem on May 06, 2010, 03:13:29 AM
Well we are getting another month of immunity, they are not making changes for this months patch.
It was always going to be the june patch at the earliest. They do seem to realise that this will be a big impact on the game and are trying to get it right.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Camikazi on May 06, 2010, 01:55:49 PM
Well we are getting another month of immunity, they are not making changes for this months patch.
It was always going to be the june patch at the earliest. They do seem to realise that this will be a big impact on the game and are trying to get it right.
I try not to assume what the devs will do and only go by what they say, and Elidroth said no changes in May :P
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: kharthai on May 06, 2010, 03:40:54 PM
Elidroth just posted again.

"Since the content for the past 3 expansions has been tuned with this functionality in place, here is the team's decision on this issue:

    * The existing AA's will be refunded and removed from the game.
    * Warriors, Shadowknights, Paladins, and Rangers will receive a new AA that specifically gives this immunity.
    * Monks, Rogues, Beastlords, Berzerkers, and Bards will get this immunity in a triggered, short duration version.
    * Beastlords, Magicians, and Necromancers will get a version of this that can be applied to their pets.

This will most likely be in place for the June patch. Look for it on test sometime in the next 2 weeks.

 
"
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Camikazi on May 06, 2010, 04:50:59 PM
Elidroth just posted again.

"Since the content for the past 3 expansions has been tuned with this functionality in place, here is the team's decision on this issue:

    * The existing AA's will be refunded and removed from the game.
    * Warriors, Shadowknights, Paladins, and Rangers will receive a new AA that specifically gives this immunity.
    * Monks, Rogues, Beastlords, Berzerkers, and Bards will get this immunity in a triggered, short duration version.
    * Beastlords, Magicians, and Necromancers will get a version of this that can be applied to their pets.

This will most likely be in place for the June patch. Look for it on test sometime in the next 2 weeks.

 
"
Wee more AAs to click, 2 if the pet one is activated too... and we will be taking more damage now when tanking (as if we didn't take a lot of damage already).
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: thor on May 06, 2010, 06:39:12 PM
Why are Rangers on that list as passive immune?
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Grbage on May 06, 2010, 07:04:24 PM
Because the devs consider rangers as a light tank, they are warrior/druid hybrid afterall and do have a taunt button. Monks have also been called a light tank by some devs in the past and as such they will also be considered for the passive immunity.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Sikkem on May 06, 2010, 08:56:44 PM
Well we are getting another month of immunity, they are not making changes for this months patch.
It was always going to be the june patch at the earliest. They do seem to realise that this will be a big impact on the game and are trying to get it right.
I try not to assume what the devs will do and only go by what they say, and Elidroth said no changes in May :P
You got me there?
I don't see where I assumed anything I just said what elidroth said, not May june at the earliest.

Quote
Elidroth wrote:

    This is a very strange issue to reproduce for sure. I've got an idea about what I THINK is happening, but I need to corner a coder to see if they can trace it through the combat mechanics to verify.

    EDIT: I know what's causing it now. I can't do what I want to do with it before we're in lockdown for the next patch, but changes WILL be coming for the June patch.


Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Nusa on May 06, 2010, 08:58:45 PM
I notice they didn't directly address the monk aura. If that's staying, then it won't have too big an impact on well-formed raid groups, or on monks individually.

And, of course, until we know the duration and recast time, we don't know how screwed we are.

Having it for pets is a good thing, however.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Grbage on May 07, 2010, 01:04:45 AM
Just an assumption...but most likely the same thing that causes riposte immunity with monk aura causes it in return kick. So by fixing return kick they aura will also be fixed.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Karve on May 07, 2010, 08:11:55 AM
I do hope ours is appled to us and the pet from one AA, not 2.
Enough with the clickies already,I'm running out of screen real estate for these and I'm still missing a few o.O
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Khauruk on May 07, 2010, 01:18:38 PM
I do hope ours is appled to us and the pet from one AA, not 2.
Enough with the clickies already,I'm running out of screen real estate for these and I'm still missing a few o.O

I'd bet money it will be 2 AAs.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Grbage on May 07, 2010, 01:59:38 PM
You know it will be 2 distinct lines even though almost every class is complaining about having to many buttons to mash already.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Zunar on May 07, 2010, 11:39:22 PM
This sux bigtime..
Our defensive capabilities have been left to stagnate for too long now..
I don't know about the rest of you, but I do alot of tanking on my beastlord and have been ever since I created him.

I tanked both for groups and solo....I may not be as good at it as a warrior, or knight....or even a monk, but have managed so far....
Ever since mobs got strikethrough, we started geting more damage spikes, cuz our avoidance didn't help as much anymore with SoD expansion.

Then came UF, with mobs that hit like trucks, and need you to have endlessly high AC to try tanking that.

Now with riposte from mobs too?

We will be hit the hardest by this change then any other class imo, since our avoidance is already crippled and we are the lowest mitigators of all the melee classes.

We'll need something more to survive this change I think......or might as well go back to playing older expansions, cuz UF just got less fun.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: thor on May 08, 2010, 04:13:41 PM
Yeah what gets me the most is Rangers are on this passive always on list, they should be drop down to non passive like us.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: wildwaters on May 09, 2010, 02:47:38 AM
Yeah what gets me the most is Rangers are on this passive always on list, they should be drop down to non passive like us.

Why not provide reasons the beastlords should keep this and be considered as light tanks rather than trying to weaken another class? This kind of reasoning is not healthful for the game and has resulted in many nerfs that have hurt the game for others.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Mazame on May 09, 2010, 06:58:26 AM
Yeah what gets me the most is Rangers are on this passive always on list, they should be drop down to non passive like us.

Why not provide reasons the beastlords should keep this and be considered as light tanks rather than trying to weaken another class? This kind of reasoning is not healthful for the game and has resulted in many nerfs that have hurt the game for others.

The simple and most effective reason why is PUSH. having all of the melee on the back side of the mob will cause a nasty push. beastlords and warder have some of the stronger push in the game giving bst the passive means we can be in the front arc and help control the push. more so then other classes.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Grbage on May 09, 2010, 03:40:28 PM
Yeah what gets me the most is Rangers are on this passive always on list, they should be drop down to non passive like us.

Aye. The devs have pretty much done away with mob cornering meaning the only real way to control push is by getting melee in front of mobs. This "fix" of theirs means only a few classes can be out front which means the mob will really be pushed around.

My main is a warrior these days and I have to say trying to MT a raid mob with everyone on the backside is a pita. Mob constantly gets pushed through me and then gets free shots at my back. By the way, our raid alliance is horrible for controlling push as it is, I don't want it worse.

Why not provide reasons the beastlords should keep this and be considered as light tanks rather than trying to weaken another class? This kind of reasoning is not healthful for the game and has resulted in many nerfs that have hurt the game for others.

The simple and most effective reason why is PUSH. having all of the melee on the back side of the mob will cause a nasty push. beastlords and warder have some of the stronger push in the game giving bst the passive means we can be in the front arc and help control the push. more so then other classes.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Grbage on May 11, 2010, 01:53:35 AM
Elidroth has now posted that return kick is not being fixed and will be left in as is. The devs are now discussing wether to give it to those classes who don't already have return kick.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: Hzath on May 11, 2010, 06:25:54 AM
Elidroth has now posted that return kick is not being fixed and will be left in as is. The devs are now discussing wether to give it to those classes who don't already have return kick.

Fantastic news.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: bobokatt1970 on May 11, 2010, 09:31:23 PM
Dear God.. I am cracking open a vintage bottle of wine on this.
Title: Re: Riposte immunity bug fix
Post by: wildwaters on May 13, 2010, 03:19:27 AM
I'm most happy abuot this because now they can take all tha time they were planning to waste and all those resources and use it more constructively /vrosses fingers