Let's start working on round 2 of discussions for what we want to see in the next expansion spell wise. The current spell/AA thread had a lot of good new spell ideas thrown out there, so let's see where everyone stands and if we can improve and refine some of them.
I went through the other thread and compiled all the new spell ideas from it that aren't fero related (more later). If it looked more like an AA I didn't bring it, I also didn't bring any comments made thus far.
What do you think about these ideas so far?
Like an idea?
Hate an idea?
Thoughts for improvement/modifications?
Also, it's assumed we want upgrades to all our current spells, what specific modifications/revamps of current spell lines would you like to see that aren't the typical +x%
Fero - honestly, this spell needs its own thread. Seriously. It always derails discussions, but
until we get a dev that comes to us and says they want to work with us on improving the spell I think we're wasting our time cluttering up more useful discussions. So let's not drop any F bombs in this thread (couldn't resist).
If you've had a major epiphany for an amazing spell we all have to know about toss it in the mix too.
Quotei DO NOT want to see 5 pet heals!!!! THEY ARE WORTHLESS Fluff
Friendly Pet needs to be Fixed back to heal's Targets target!!!
Better healing. Possibly an emergency heal, for ourselves not for our warders, which heals more than 2k but can't be chain cast.
Buffs fixed, somehow. I used to like being asked for IoS all those years ago in PoP. These days you can not cast buffs at all, and 8 times out of 10 nobody will notice. Probably because our buffs are of little significance these days. Our stat buffs are dead, simple as that, so maybe we can get something new?
Spell: Feral Bound, When casted this healing spell grants the caster and there warder a powerful healing bound, caster 3,500 and warder 5,000 hit points.
Cas time 2.4 sec
Mana 1,800
*An aura. I'd like to see one that could benefit melee or casters without overlapping other classes' abilities. Like +%melee crit rate, + %nuke/dot crit damage.
*Poison resist check 40% slow. Rare usage, but unique ability.
*New focus add more than just HP - think half power unity.
2. Fluffy, Sic Balls!! Proc stun that works on higher level mobs, nearly any mob that isn't specifically stun immune. Tradeoff would be long recast and hit limits, maybe stacking conflict with Hobble/Fellgrip.
3. Spiritual Verve. The atk component of this buff is small and doesn't seem to have a significant effect these days. Future SV should give bonus Heroic STR or DEX.
A dual cast slow/cripple would be a good way to go. As to implementing it we need to ask :
1) Dual Attack % decrease in the cripple part - similar to current enchanter cripples. This is one of the single most needed additions to our repertoire. Even at the expense of 10% to 15% of the actual slow percentage if the dual attack penalty is good enough.
2) Disease based resist - Having focus of animus makes it a no brainer on switching to a disease based slow.
3) Cast time - All of our combat spells should be aiming for faster casts
Another spell to ask for would be a self & pet listlessness type buff for slows/heals.
The % damage bonus from Growl line spells needs to scale upward now so that it provides the combat increase keeps pace with other beastlord spells. Same thing with Feralgia.
Pack Strength - A spell that boosts the combat abilities of a beastlord (and his companions?) based on the size of his "pack" (group size + pets of all kinds
Cliknar Carapace - A reduce all skill damage amount buff for self and pet, similar to part of the CoA chest clicky.
Might of the Elders - An upgraded version of Frenzy(lvl 47) that adds AC, heroic Str, Dex and Agi instead of std stats, that might or might not affect our warder as well.
Some sort of "set-up" or "assist" attack/proc. Much as a pack of hunters will work together, launching feints and wounding attacks to leave their prey vulnerable to a killing strike, the beastlord's warder would attack a foe in this fashion, with a proc of this kind giving other attackers a possible opening to strike an extremely damaging or even fatal blow. The effect would probably have a min damage modifier, critical chance modifier and maximum damage modifier for 1 to 2 ticks and/or the chance to proc a telling blow effect (DD?/% total hp dmg? -- something that noticeably HURTS).
a trigger that fires Sha's Legacy+Lvl 87 disease dot+Lvl 86 poison dot. Ideally it would be more mana efficient than casting all 3 at once, with the added advantage of applying all the spells faster.
What about an upgraded version of Empathic Fury, that lasts 45 seconds...AND boost all pets too...including Yowl pets summoned during that disc is active.
Another maybe easy fix would be to add a twincast buff onto Empathic fury.
Combine our poison and disease dots into one spell like Frozen Venom is.
maybe call it Festering Venom and make dots last 30 seconds and bump up the damage on them imo.
somekind of a root's since we are hybrid shaman but not a proc from the pet a spell we can cast even if its short duration
Like an Aura of the Bear Hug - Allows you to hold a mob in place as long as it stays very close to you
I'd like to see Yowl (or whatever the new werewolf spell is called) boosted in power a bit, and for us to get the aforementioned cast time reduction (to 0.5).
I'd like an improvement in burst dps. Whether this is from an improved version of Empathic Fury, or a new disc that stacks with something we currently have, or a high mana-cost nuke, or short term high powered high mana cost swarm pet, I don't really care (swarm pet probably last on my list, though).
Not particularly crazy about any heal ideas, mostly because I have little faith they'll be done right and effective.
The slow/dot/dot combination spell sounds interesting.
I'll start with the one thing I think the whole community actually agrees on. NO LONG CAST TIMES ON COMBAT SPELLS. If it isn't a buff and takes longer than 1.5 seconds to cast it will almost certainly not get used unless it's something truly amazing.
Specific examples are:
Yowl at the moon (1.5s) - It's always been a detriment to our melee dps to cast, but it's finally getting to the point where we're considering or have stopped casting in certain situations.
Friendly Pet (3s) - Aside from its other issues, if a spell proc has charges like this I'll almost certainly not bother refreshing it mid-fight with such a long cast time.
Minax's Mending (5s) - It's not a very good spell in general, but with the outrageous cast time it's definitely one of our worst.
(I'm not including Haergen's because the combined effect of both spells in 1.5s is already a significant improvement over two individual spells)
Current Spell Feedback:
Focus of ____ - This spell needs overcap stats. I think we should shoot for the level 80 shaman focus amount of overcaps. It wouldn't infringe on any current content shaman, but would be a massive improvement over pure hp.
Targetted Player Heal - Heals need a big boost across the board. Hybrids specifically need an extra bump.
SV line - It's third best. There's no reason for any class choose it over pred or brells. It needs something added, what I couldn't tell you.
Minax's Mending - Is this spell a HoT or a promised? It fails as both. How am I supposed to know if my pet is going to need a big heal in 1-2minutes? That's way too long to delay the boom heal. The other side of the coin is that the HoT is too small, 800hp/tick won't prolong life in any sort of current content. There's two possible ways to go here to make it useful.
1: Decrease the HoT duration down to 3ticks so the big heal comes sooner. Allow it to stack with our current Promised line so we have the option to stagger them if needed.
2: Increase the HoT substantially and remove the boom heal at the end. For all our pet heals, a heal over time spell is what we lack somehow. A 30second base HoT with heal values of around 3000 would be appropriate I think.
DoTs (both types) - Instacast was a good start. They still lack the firepower to be a major part of our arsenal. Adding a secondary debuff or more damage would make them more than spells to cast when yowl/nukes are greyed out.
Poison DD line - I wouldn't mind seeing the poison line recasts split into two groups like the cold nukes. I know they're more powerful, but we aren't terrifying anyone with our dps currently. The other issue is casting the lower level cold spell leaves me with no other dps spells to cast when I get the older version GoM proc, so I have to watch it go to waste.
Friendly Pet - ...
____ Jaws line - I would like the proc rate modifier upped to 400. It's our best resist mod slow and has to be used in some situations and I don't like waiting on procs I can't control. If I'm going to refresh the spell constantly, I'd like assurance the slow is going to be on the mob before it's almost dead.
____ Aegis line - RK3: Mitigate Spell Damage by 80%, 14560 total. That's one AE, even for group encounters.
I'm turning into Umlat. I'll post my responses to the newer ideas later.
And less activated shit
Quote from: wildwaters on May 06, 2010, 10:14:10 PM
No more activated shit
I fixed that for you. We've gone out of hand.
Somebody pls explain to the developers that bst are more iritating to play well than bards now (w/o the cool shit they can do even).
I think one cool thing could be to give our pet proc buffs (Spirit of Vaxtn etc) some more attention.
Instead of the same old, damage+stun on even con mobs...why not flavor them more.
Maybe add one proc for each resist, making us able to choose one for the occasion.
Spirit of Poison - Adds a DoT on the mob, that grows more powerful as time goes like necro Splurt spell. For longer fights.
Spirit of Disease - Disease DoT + lowers AC.
Spirit of Fire - Fire nukes, more damage. Burns faster - could even have a number of counters on it.
Spirit of Ice - Cold nukes + lowers Attack
Spirit of Magic - magic Nuke + stun
Spirit of Corruption - defensive proc. Fires if pet or owner is hit. stun, 1 tick mez or something.
If anyone has better ideas feel free...This is what I could come up with atm
Essentially we used to have choices in pet procs but except for the rare occasion everyone just used the newest proc because it was better. Personally I like this model because it beats having all our spell development tied into giving us a choice between 6 different procs rather then actual class spell development. You have to remember they usually give all the classes X spells per expansion and that's it.
Quote from: Grbage on May 07, 2010, 04:10:06 PM
Essentially we used to have choices in pet procs but except for the rare occasion everyone just used the newest proc because it was better. Personally I like this model because it beats having all our spell development tied into giving us a choice between 6 different procs rather then actual class spell development. You have to remember they usually give all the classes X spells per expansion and that's it.
Actual class spell development? What's that? Beastlords are sitting at over 5 spells below the average for hybrid classes for levels 81 to 85. Of the spells we do get, 4 are pet heals and growl is at this point redundant (and still not boosting pet damage properly).
Friends are the only reason I still play EQ. The development team has shown itself to be blantantly biased and unable to retain objectivity, refrain from favoritism or maintain a sense of professionalism. The community leadership program seems to be a bastion of sycophancy carefully recruited to provide a "rubber stamp" legitimacy to support the devs' prejudices and to pander to their viewpoint. Devs have stated they pretty much ignore any feedback.
The only way this adolescent nonsense will end is if some of these people get kicked to the curb and find themselves looking for work. Even then, the damage they've done to EQ is endemic and impossible to fix without starting from scratch. Sadly, the lack of accountability here will only lead to the repetition of the same problems in whatever projects we have the misfortune of seeing them move on to.
Quote from: Umlat on May 07, 2010, 05:26:54 PM
Quote from: Grbage on May 07, 2010, 04:10:06 PM
Essentially we used to have choices in pet procs but except for the rare occasion everyone just used the newest proc because it was better. Personally I like this model because it beats having all our spell development tied into giving us a choice between 6 different procs rather then actual class spell development. You have to remember they usually give all the classes X spells per expansion and that's it.
Actual class spell development? What's that? Beastlords are sitting at over 5 spells below the average for hybrid classes for levels 81 to 85. Of the spells we do get, 4 are pet heals and growl is at this point redundant (and still not boosting pet damage properly).
Friends are the only reason I still play EQ. The development team has shown itself to be blantantly biased and unable to retain objectivity, refrain from favoritism or maintain a sense of professionalism. The community leadership program seems to be a bastion of sycophancy carefully recruited to provide a "rubber stamp" legitimacy to support the devs' prejudices and to pander to their viewpoint. Devs have stated they pretty much ignore any feedback.
The only way this adolescent nonsense will end is if some of these people get kicked to the curb and find themselves looking for work. Even then, the damage they've done to EQ is endemic and impossible to fix without starting from scratch. Sadly, the lack of accountability here will only lead to the repetition of the same problems in whatever projects we have the misfortune of seeing them move on to.
Where I work they call that culture. What I've noticed is culture is damn hard to change if it's not to your liking even by the big shot in charge. Lots of inertia to overcome.
First and foremost for me is a solid warder, both good def/off. On par with mage pets. Take the average of the earth/air pet maybe and give us that. The whole "mages get the best pets" thing has to end, that was only started by mages in the first place :-P
I'm more inclined to ask for better revamps of older spells then more new ones. Though a couple new ones would be nice. I like the revamped slow with dot(s) added to it.. Have to make sure the dots still land even if sham/chanter slow is already on the mob though.
Maybe a combo spell for minix and promised? Kinda a good heal over time spell but still with a boom heal at the end?
Complete revamp of our craptastic player heal spell to actually be useful again, and add a cure component to it perhaps?
Some kind of cripple/debuff would be nice. I used to use incapasitate (sp?) every mob after i slowed it back in the day.
Maybe a pet rune that procs twincast on us when it fades?
Yowl upgrade with a instant cast, alot higher damage pets, maybe more mana/longer recast?
Friendly pet damn near needs it's own thread next to fero I think :-D
And to dream a little.. castable Snare!
Ragging on the devs has no upside, you realize. It's self-destructive.
Add a pet heal recourse to one of our nuke lines would be nice. Like the one the mages got with UF
Current sell Lines I would like to keep and see improved in the next level increase are the following.
Haergen's Feralgia: this was a nice spell that helps to not lose dps and still add growl on to us. I would request that the upgrade have a shorter cast time and an increase to damage.
Yowl at the Moon: would Like to keep this line as it more mana effective then HF line. Again on the upgrade would request a shorter cast time and a damage increase. would also like to see the % on spawning 4 to be greater
Spellbreaker's Aegis: This spell line is hard to use because we don't know what is going to be hitting or pet most of the time. I would like to see this line combines with the melee version so that one buff will protect from both spells and melee
Savage Ferocity: This line is more of a pain to use then it worth. Upgrade to a group version and add a + crit mod to it. The resist on it don't do anything they could be removed after all most people are capped resist anyways. Another option would be to turn the resist mod into an over cap resist mob so that the effect would be worth using.
Frozen Venom: love this new line please keep it around and keep it upgrading each level increase
Spiritual Edification: This line is nice but is getting out dated each passing year. With bigger HP / mana pools and harder hitting mob and higher costing spells re gen is not what it used to be. Also with OOC re gen the need for re gen is not as important as it used to be. To UPGRADE this line I would as to make the mana / hp re gen some thing that will be worth having and using make the increase to match the gain in hp and mana pools please.
Frigid Lance: Ice nukes have been our main focus for many year I would like to see the damage on these go up a lot more then they have been.
Spirit of Vaxztn: The stun effect on this line I would like to see improved a bit. Also if you could make a note in the spell it self on what type of damage it doing would be nice as it changes every level.
Bite of the Vitrik: Love this line would like to see it keep coming back with a bit more damage each time.
Unrivaled Rapidity: would like this spell split into 2. a group haste that we can cast that is better then people get from potions. 2nd would be the pet haste for our pet. The recourse effect is a nice idea but the group haste just doesn't last long enough and having to re load the spell every 18 min is just not worth it.
Spirit of Kuris: Our WARDER need a lot of help. He is our =, or least the lore makes it sound that way. To bad our pet die way to easy and his dps need a boost please make our warder much better then they are currently.
Tsetsian Endemic: Dots are nice but unlike other classes getting our to land are a pain on upgrade please add a resist mob so they will land with out having to cast them 4-7 times before they do.
Spiritual Verve: If people what attack that ask a Ranger. If they want HP they ask a Paly. Ya it nice to a little of both but most the time it not used. UPGRADE / REVAMP .. I would say change this to one of the following.
A) + mana, + spell damage.
That way melee can go after the ranger , tanks can get brells and caster can take bst version .
B) + end, + heal effect
This would be an option more for healers then caster dps.
Both option I would like as it means on raids I will have meaning and those that want can pick between the 3 options Paly / Bst / Ranger the buff that works for them the best.
Cadmael's Mending: we need a better heal 2k heal even with aa is often only doing around 4k and if lucky 8k. mobs these days often hit in one round what we heal for. I not asking to be as good as pure healer classes but would like to see our heals able to save some one when we see they need it rather then just slowing the death.
Focus of Yemall / Infusion of Spirit: FoY is currently just HP and we not seen an improvement on our IoS line sense 61. with gear the way it is we could use an over cap IoS version or combine these 2 and make the stats over cap. They don't need to be as good as the sham buff but we are part sham and so I feel we are due to have our buff spells follow their. Often this line is only used when a sham is not around any ways so the fact that a sham will over ride them I don't see the problem in giving us the over cap stats at a level behind the sham. If that is not do able then consider letting our FoY being moved so it will stack with sham unity after all it just hp and rather then having a buff that rarely gets use would be nice to have some thing we can add.
Ikaav Blood: same with our other dot line would like to have this land more often with out having to recast it 3-4 time to get it to land.
Salve of Reshan if any bst loads a heal this is the heal we load and so would be nice to see this one stay around and be improved a bit.
Old spell lines that have been forgotten that I would like to be returned and updated:
Annul Magic would like to see an improvement on this line that wont strip our slow / dots off but let us debuff the mobs ( last upgrade for us was level 61)
Incapacitate: would Love to get an upgrade to this line last time we saw this line was level 56 yet it still a line I would love to use and is due for an up grade.
Shifting Shield: this is another line that has been forgotten I would not mind seeing return.
Frenzy: this was a short lasting buff that we could use and was nice to have would not mind seeing an update for it last one we got was level 47.
Spells I would like to be removed and their lines ended.
Fellgrip Jaws: Please remove this line from our spell list it not worth using and not worth the spell slot to keep it loaded.
Growl of the Jaguar: With Haergen's Feralgia new line this line is no longer need and can be laid to rest. Please keep it effects and improvements going to HF line instead.
Friendly Pet: UMMM please remove asap this line is not worth keeping around.
Promised Rejuvenation: I for one think this is nice for clerics but as a pet heal my pet doesn't last long enough for me to wait for this heal to trigger. You can remove this line.
Minax's Mending: We have limited spell slots in the middle of combat we have to pick what we feel will make give us the best chance at taking out our foe. We don't need 4 types of pet heals we don't load them and would rather not take the spell slots to load them. So I would say a 700 hp hot when mobs hit for 4k+ just is not worth having loaded. Please remove this line.
Quote from: Mazame on May 08, 2010, 06:39:25 AMPromised Rejuvenation: I for one think this is nice for clerics but as a pet heal my pet doesn’t last long enough for me to wait for this heal to trigger. You can remove this line.
Very strange. Dragonscale Guard and Promised line are the only 2 pet heal spells I use outside of extreme circumstances.
Quote from: Nusa on May 07, 2010, 06:58:32 PM
Ragging on the devs has no upside, you realize. It's self-destructive.
In order for that statement to be true you relize, they would have to listen in the first place to us.
Normally I would agree with you but the fact is we are how many expansions past the "F-bomb" and a few other touchy subjects and still nothing has been done?
Fixed Invis and FD came from the AA dev (Who's relatively new) and a new Nuke (Spell developer). 3 accomplishments (for SoE) in that amount of time span isn't a record I would be proud of. Again, look at our wish list, some of which should of became reality long ago before all the "Ragging".
Quote from: Hzath on May 08, 2010, 10:29:34 AM
Quote from: Mazame on May 08, 2010, 06:39:25 AMPromised Rejuvenation: I for one think this is nice for clerics but as a pet heal my pet doesn’t last long enough for me to wait for this heal to trigger. You can remove this line.
Very strange. Dragonscale Guard and Promised line are the only 2 pet heal spells I use outside of extreme circumstances.
Same, the casting time of Promised at least lets me know it will land on pet with out getting interrupted. But it doesn't always go off because pet is dead if he didn't enrage, its a trade off I guess
Quote from: Hzath on May 08, 2010, 10:29:34 AM
Quote from: Mazame on May 08, 2010, 06:39:25 AMPromised Rejuvenation: I for one think this is nice for clerics but as a pet heal my pet doesn’t last long enough for me to wait for this heal to trigger. You can remove this line.
Very strange. Dragonscale Guard and Promised line are the only 2 pet heal spells I use outside of extreme circumstances.
We have 2 pet heals 1 hot and 1 Ch type heal. these 2 heals I have found most of the time are all the pet needs. taking 2 spells slots to load guard and another heal is a bit much for me. guard is nice I will give you that. but a promis heal to me when not being used on a main tank is like throwing mana away on the chance it might heal at a good time. if you cast when the pet needs a heal there a good chance the pet dead before the 10 sec is up if your casting it when the pet dosn't need a heal then it go off and you wasted mana unless ffor some unknow reason the pet got hurt in that 10 sec and then you healed him
in a my pet going to die need a heal I use the aa CH
when pet taking little bits of damage from AE and ramp I use the hot aa / guard. If I know the fight and know my pets going to need cures I will load the heal with the cure in it in place of guard.
Please add *burst-dps* specific ideas to http://beastlords.org/index.php?topic=8750
Maybe just me, but I find myself not loading any heal spell at all, at least on raids (only load promised in grouping situations, and I use it ehh... almost never?). I find myself using promised and blessing and /pet hold /pet back off only, any other damage that kills my warder faster than this three things is going to kill it with any heal spell we have anyways.
And on the spell part, I quite like some of Mazame's ideas, specially with the Verve's line, let's make it usefull again, I would even trade off the atk bonus for a unique mod.
- Feralgia : this is a step in the good direction, get two usefull spells we use combined into one was a great idea ... more of this please! and make the mod scale with new version 20%-25%-33% of damage increase for ranks I-II-III for example.
- Boon: same here, get the 4 pets proc rate upped and boost its damage too. Decrease it's casting time to 0.5 secs or 1 sec tops. This has become one of our class defining dps spells, dont let it fade!
- DOTS: who would not agree on that we need those pumped both in resist checks and damage ... I used to load them after they downed the cast time, but I end up using only nukes in raids (spell graying time is awfull after casting one) for the damage they do I lost interest in them; Improve dots base damage and get rid of spell graying when casting them and make them easier to land.
Warder procs:
- Vaxzn: I agree that our pet stun part of the procs should be usefull for the current content the spell has been designed for ... why make a stun spell that only works for prior expansions?
- Fellgrips: I for one wouldn't care much if we get rid of this spell, although very rarely I got to use it on some raid mobs hard to slow ... if we must keep this line then rework it to make it really usefull, like make it unresistable and/or able to slow unslowable mobs.
- Friendly Pet: the idea is nice, the implementation ... is awfull. Rework it to BOTH stack with any other pet proc AND make the heal either a group heal (prefered) OR heal the targets target, THEN it would be usefull (sorry for caps, just hit me nerves lol).
- Group Haste! get rid of recourse group haste and give us one group haste that doesnt cost us 1300 mana each 13 mins for gods sake!!
- Pet heal spells: giving us four different kind of pet heals means what? to my eyes means the devs have no idea what to give to us and just throw more of the same ... get rid of minax and do like it was done with Feralgia and Boon, make a single heal spell that has a base heal like Salve and adds a hot like Minax (but with useful values! like 2-3k a tick for few ticks), up the mana cost a bit and keep casting times or reduce it down to 1-2 sec cast (at 3 seconds casting time with mods you are loosing quite some dps nowadays); of course keeping the curing. Then maybe I would think memming it.
- Block spells: another line where Feralgias experience could kick in ... combine them! I find myself almost never using aegis, only use Dragonscale regularly on raids (at least it blocks both melee and spells). Make a combined run spell that blocks like Dragonscale (6/7/8 blocks instead 8/9/10) and mitigates spell damage (15%/20%/25% instead of 20%/25%/30%)?
Old spell lines ... it would be great to see some old lines made actual:
- Focus > has been asked for long now, make it a tuned down version of shaman's
- Incapacitate > Would be nice to get Cripple for example
- Frenzy > make it boost our heroic stats instead of normal ones? (+5 to all melee heroic stats + some ac?)
New spell ideas:
- An emergency heal spell (0.5 sec casting time) with long reuse time (30 seconds?) for pet + ourselves (5k+3k base heals) idea sounds nice, even a self only emergency heal (0.5 sec casting and 4k base heal) sounds great.
- Beastlord aura, improving melee dps in a noticeable way (+melee %chance crit, increase crits damage, add twinproc mod, ...); zerkers got Cry, rangers got Auspice both mgbable and we have GBA that is NOT mgable and is both subpar with Auspice and Shaman champion, why not ask for such an aura if they dont want to do GBA as it was originally in beta (very grumpy cos of this).
- Warder mezz proc: this idea has rounded my mind for some time now, the form is where im unsure tho lol. Make it a single cast mezz proc (1-2 ticks) + push + blurr or a X charges (2/4/6 charges?) mezz proc that lasts 2-3 ticks ...
- Diversified warder procs, I know there could be too many spells summed up, but Bestolrs have been the class with the LEAST SPELLS each expansions for uncountable years... it's time for some spell love! We already have diversified Feral Attacks, the lore is there, let the warders get some improvement too!
Zunar's ideas sound nice, would love to see something similar implemented.
I was thinking we could add another utility proc, kind of like the idea of how Friendly pet was maybe though of like, I dunno.
Warder's intervention, (10min timer, 1 min reuse maybe)
Add Proc: Warder's Intervention, 3-6 counters
If target's target is under 50% Hps, it has a 80% chance to trigger a heal
Heals 4000 Hp, and removes one counter
When all counters are gone, the buff proc fades.
This would make the heal come when it's needed, more like an emergency heal....at 50% or less, you'll really want a heal :)
The 80% chance is there to raise the heal to 4000, instead of 3000.
Personally I'd like it alot more.....but that's up to devs, who seem to think 3K heals are where we should be :/
Maybe this is what Friendly pet should've been, heh
I thought about a warder proc mezz as well, I guess it would have to be activated/long re-use as a last ditch effort.
warder proc's Rabid Glare single target mez (ideally making the target back away and fade off), the warder would have to stay "staring" at the mob and stop all DPS as the downside to it, so it could be a tricky one to code.
Bigger heals, ours really are a joke.
Group haste ftw!
Up fellgrip/ make it work on non-slowable mobs thus returning a class defining ability to beastlords. and then don't give it to mages/anyone else.
Up the numbers for paragon and f-paragon.
Give us an aura for damage+ and crits++ AND stamin regen (yeah baby).
Make SE better returns or add a new one to the line.
Make our buffs stack a little better with other classes, at the moment we have exactly 1 spell to contribute to a raid buffing session and the same for a group too.
Up pet DPS and survivability .. does anyone here even attempt to solo with their pet in UF ?
Up damage on dots and definitely reduce the checks against them.. having to buty aa's to make spells stick and then still seeing them fail just plain sucks.
No one has said much about the newer ideas thrown out so I'll add one more idea and then give my take on them, it's about our targeted player heals. Other than soloing, they're only used in emergencies such as healer dying or mercenary deciding he's not getting paid enough and isn't healing anymore. I propose they start acting like it. The shaman/druid emergency heals heal the group based on how low health everyone is, it would be awesome if our heal did something similar only for our single target. Using our Cadmaels Rk.III rounded to 2000 base heal and 500 mana (1964 and 495 in reality, but round numbers are nicer) for the example.
If Target is 100-80% health: 1700 base heal (85% of regular)
If Target is 80-60% health: 2000 base heal (100% of regular)
If Target is 60-40% health: 2200 base heal (110% of regular)
If Target is 40-20% health: 2500 base heal (125% of regular)
If Target is 20-0% health: 3000 base heal (150% of regular)
Obviously there's a pretty sizeable bonus for healing people under 40% health, but it's most likely a dire situation if someone drops that low and our heal might actually save some people.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now then, responses to some of the ideas I had strong feelings for one way or another.
QuoteSpell: Feral Bound, When casted this healing spell grants the caster and there warder a powerful healing bound, caster 3,500 and warder 5,000 hit points.
Cas time 2.4 sec
Mana 1,800
I think I said this already, but I am not really a fan of linking abilities to our warder. They're usually not useable at all when he's out of range or dead which is often a hassle. Also in most situations I need to heal either the warder OR myself, usually not both at the same time. With all of the powerful pet AAs (mend, DA, Compantions blessing) he's usually in good shape for most fights without many spells so I think the spell would be inefficient (hp/mana wise) in most situations.
Quote*An aura. I'd like to see one that could benefit melee or casters without overlapping other classes' abilities. Like +%melee crit rate, + %nuke/dot crit damage.
I'm not opposed to a dps aura, but bards and enchanters have a pretty good stranglehold on that market. We also have to think about stacking issues, we ideally want something that won't be completely obsoleted by discs/AAs in a burn scenario. Also, I think we would want it to be melee focused so we're more appealing to the melee dps groups.
The berserker discipline Vengeful Flurry has the stat
Increase Additional Attack Chance by 100%
I don't have any idea how useful that is, but it's not a very often seen effect and if we could get an aura version with a lower % that would rock.
Quote2. Fluffy, Sic Balls!! Proc stun that works on higher level mobs, nearly any mob that isn't specifically stun immune. Tradeoff would be long recast and hit limits, maybe stacking conflict with Hobble/Fellgrip.
I kind of like the idea of our pets being able to stun up to player level+3 (or whatever). It's a utility proc so it would almost certainly be put on the hobble/fellgrip timer.
QuoteA dual cast slow/cripple would be a good way to go.
Yes. If they're going to bring back cripple (a popular request the past few years) I hope it's done like this. I hate slowing, and if groups expected me to cast an additional debuff I wouldn't be happy. It probably wouldn't be effective much in raids other than pre-debuffing adds, but it would be a stellar group/solo spell.
QuoteAnother spell to ask for would be a self & pet listlessness type buff for slows/heals.
Yes again. I've always dreamed of having a self only listlessness. Attempting to slow multiple mobs when soloing or tanking armed with only a 1.5s cast 6s recast single target slow spell is a nightmare with interrupts and resists.
QuoteWhat about an upgraded version of Empathic Fury, that lasts 45 seconds...AND boost all pets too...including Yowl pets summoned during that disc is active.
Another maybe easy fix would be to add a twincast buff onto Empathic fury.
Empathic Fury definitely needs an upgrade this expansion. I think I would rather see our best discipline to remain pure melee focused and leave gimmicky tricks (which I do like the ideas) to AAs.
I like the idea of a heal spell that scales up like that. Maybe even a bigger scale up imo...more of like a panic heal.
Possibly also it'd cast more or less instant, and have a longer reuse timer, 6 seconds?
Maybe it could be made a separate spell from our regular heal spell line.
I'd like to see haste recourse dropped from our pet haste buff too (Unrivaled Rapidity), and make it recourse something else...maybe a self AC and/or haste buff, and/or regen that lasts as long as the pet buff does.
Else it'd make little sense imo having the pet buff last way longer when you need to be recasting it for a shorter recourse anyways.
AC buff to stack with cleric Gallantry, Order of the Devout..or else it'd be useless.
(We did used to have an AC buff in the past, Shifting Shield, lev 56, so it's not taken entirely out of the blue :))
Make the 50% group haste buff a spell of it's own, or include 50% haste in a group fero buff perhaps.
Make the next Fellgrip Jaws an PB AE slow, and possibly lose the DoT on it.
Imo it's mainly used for preslowing things, so this would make it more efficient and worthwhile using for just that purpose on trash mobs.
Next upgrade to Frozen Venom could include a debuff, that makes the mob take extra damage from the next ice or poison spell used on it.
All I got time for now....
Quote from: Zunar on May 15, 2010, 08:53:44 PM
Make the next Fellgrip Jaws an PB AE slow, and possibly lose the DoT on it.
Imo it's mainly used for preslowing things, so this would make it more efficient and worthwhile using for just that purpose on trash mobs.
Next upgrade to Frozen Venom could include a debuff, that makes the mob take extra damage from the next ice or poison spell used on it.
All I got time for now....
If you make Fellgrip PB AE and keep it a pet proc that would become a pet suicide spell, pet would evaporate once it procced and too many adds around, specially unhandled adds. As for Venom, I like it the way it is, great for dumping mana and adding a good amount of DPS, yea the extra aggro on it sux, but I see the reason for it, it's meant as a limiting factor on it's use and with our new AA and FD we can just manage it without instant death. I would rather it stick the way it is since if they added a debuff or something like that the recast would go up or damage would go down most likely.
I like the idea of AE Pet slow. It's perfect becuase it is self limiting.
It's useful against 2 or 3 mobs as long as you can get the adds tanked or cc'd in time, but you would never through it against a pack of 10 raid mobs.
Plus pet slow only lasts a minute, so it's not a fire 1 time and forget. The more mobs you use it on, the more times you have to refresh it, because you won't be able to kill a whole herd inside 1 minute.
Let's face it. Fellgrip was not really an upgrade over Lockfang. For me it was actually a downgrade because I won't get rnk III felgrip for a while and the Rnk III versions have a better resist modifier than the rnk II versions. People use pet slow for the Slow effect, not the dot component.
Or just limit the number of slows on it to five mobs that way it fades and the pet cant cast it over and over and get major aggro >.<
That's assumin of course you have a tank that aes on inc.
Quote from: Bumkus on May 20, 2010, 03:15:04 PM
I like the idea of AE Pet slow. It's perfect becuase it is self limiting.
It's useful against 2 or 3 mobs as long as you can get the adds tanked or cc'd in time, but you would never through it against a pack of 10 raid mobs.
Plus pet slow only lasts a minute, so it's not a fire 1 time and forget. The more mobs you use it on, the more times you have to refresh it, because you won't be able to kill a whole herd inside 1 minute.
Let's face it. Fellgrip was not really an upgrade over Lockfang. For me it was actually a downgrade because I won't get rnk III felgrip for a while and the Rnk III versions have a better resist modifier than the rnk II versions. People use pet slow for the Slow effect, not the dot component.
Personally I'd love to see pet slow spelll line just die lol
The biggest issue i have with the pet slow is the dot, that makes impossible for that mob to now be mezzed. So say you pull one and get 2 adds, tank grabs one, warder randomly slows/dots that one or any other one, chanter ae mezzes, warder's dot wakes mob, dead chanter =/
I was screwing around boxing the old ldon raids for fun and found myself wishing I could cast an AE slow, but outside of that and tradeskill drops farming I cant really think of any other time I'd ever want to pull that much agro on that many mobs on myself.
Anything that blocks me from using hobble of spirits is useless in the group game imo. On raids I dont tend to use hobble but shammies got slow duty then normally.
To me on a raid thats were friendly pet might be useful as a group heal or possibly make it a group/point blank AE cure or something.
pbae cure on raids like Venomlord would be bad tho I suppose..
Ok. So eliminate DoT component on pet slow. Add AE. Keep same resist adjusts by rank.
If you want AE, you lose DoT. Have to choose.
Eliminating the DoT from an AE version would also prevent it from being exploited when swarming light blues for XP.
I realize we are split 50/50 on Pet slows, but if they are gonna upgrade it, then it needs to be different than Fellgrip/Lockfang, which really werent much of an upgrade from Steeltrap, especially given that people cast this for the Slow, not the DoT.
Not sure how I wound up reading
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wound_licking
other then I have too much free time at work..
But thats what got me thinking about warder proc'ing a pbae cure spell lol
would be a funny emote to see
"Bradam's warder drools on you! You have been cured"
I'm not in favor of a pet ae slow. It would be situational nice (low con mobs) but in current content the pet would quickly die from it.
It would not be used on low con mobs because low con mobs dont need to be slowed. I only use Slow as a non-damaging pulling tool in Thallasius.
Your right it would only be situationally useful, but those situations are when you have a few non-trivial mobs. In groups and solo, it would allow us to slow a couple mobs without having to cycle targets.
They need to do something with it and I don't wanna blow another spell upgrade by getting an extra 80 dot damage tacked on top. That's worthless.
Whatever they do, we should expect them to keep the basic theme of the spell. It is a mob debuff.
If not AE, then it needs to add an attack reduction or some other debuff component.
Either way we gotta start coming together so we have a unified postion come beta.
would like a group heal and corruption cure.
General:
Dreamlike Cunning 1 0 / 10
Dreamlike Swiftness 1 0 / 10
Dreamlike Sapience 1 0 / 10
Dreamlike Fortitude 1 0 / 10
Dreamlike Magnetism 1 0 / 10
Dreamlike Intellect 1 0 / 10
5aa per rank to stat cap
Delay Death / 30
Innate Regeneration / 30
Discordant Defiance / 15
Arch
Enhanced Aggression / 30
Veteran's Wrath / 12
Fury of Magic / 15
Finishing Blow / 26
Class
Tranquil Blessings 0 / 1 = next group buff becomes an area effect spell ( only work out of combat )
Bestial Frenzy / 13
if this is not 100% I am sorry but it was a quick look over and I was at work so not able to double check it. but these are the New aa that have shown up on EQ players not sure when they are due out or if they will be more or if they may get changed.
Looks to me like Tranquil blessing is another MGB for buffing out side of combat so we can save MGB for paragon and use TB for SE.
Quote from: Mazame on May 20, 2010, 10:17:21 PM
Arch
Veteran's Wrath / 12
Class
Bestial Frenzy / 13
Those 2 are already on Live, rest seem to be new though, least new ranks.
Quote from: Karve on May 21, 2010, 10:38:08 AM
A pbae pet proc snare could be interesting though ..
Snare is part of our AA Hobble line, not spells.
And AE snare would be bigger aggro generator than Slow. Plus mobs would then turn on warder un-slowed. If our pet snare was a useful kite tool, then I could see some uses for an AE snare. But really snare generates too much hate on the warder to use it for anything other than keeping runners from tearing off at low heath.
Since mobs only run when there is one of them at low health, then ae snare would not really gain us anything.
Quote from: bradam on May 20, 2010, 06:43:54 PM
Not sure how I wound up reading
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wound_licking
other then I have too much free time at work..
But thats what got me thinking about warder proc'ing a pbae cure spell lol
would be a funny emote to see
"Bradam's warder drools on you! You have been cured"
That just made me laugh but don't put it past them to make it
Aristo will be the spell Dev for this expansion BTW (UF was Raramor and Rytan)
I did add a Link to this post in CL Forums if I did not menthin this before
Quote from: Mazame on May 20, 2010, 10:17:21 PM
General:
Dreamlike Cunning 1 0 / 10
Dreamlike Swiftness 1 0 / 10
Dreamlike Sapience 1 0 / 10
Dreamlike Fortitude 1 0 / 10
Dreamlike Magnetism 1 0 / 10
Dreamlike Intellect 1 0 / 10
5aa per rank to stat cap
Delay Death / 30
Innate Regeneration / 30
Discordant Defiance / 15
Arch
Enhanced Aggression / 30
Veteran's Wrath / 12
Fury of Magic / 15
Finishing Blow / 26
Class
Tranquil Blessings 0 / 1 = next group buff becomes an area effect spell ( only work out of combat )
Bestial Frenzy / 13
if this is not 100% I am sorry but it was a quick look over and I was at work so not able to double check it. but these are the New aa that have shown up on EQ players not sure when they are due out or if they will be more or if they may get changed.
Looks to me like Tranquil blessing is another MGB for buffing out side of combat so we can save MGB for paragon and use TB for SE.
Bit of a boring list that :/
Nothing but additional ranks of passive AAs with no "wow" factor at all. Hopefully there's more to come.
Quote from: Tadenea on May 21, 2010, 03:25:34 PM
I did add a Link to this post in CL Forums if I did not menthin this before
Thank you.
Aristo,
I'm going to focus here on a few problems that the beastlord spell set has, and do new spell ideas in a separate post later. Our spell set has largely stagnated over the past many expansions, and the new spells we've received prior to this expansion have been largely useless, so PLEASE budget some development time for us /wrings hands.
1 - useless spells
Ferocity - this has been acknowledged as a useless spell by Prathun for several years, and I'm hoping you can do something about it. It was a mana-intensive short duration spell with very strong defensive portions against spells and melee offenses. It works off of Luclin-era mechanics (attack, resists, raw STA), all of which are of minimal use now. On top of that it suffers from high mana cost, and very long recast timer. It has a two-fold mission, defensive (HP from STA, resists) and offensive (largest single spell attack boost). Beastlords have been asking for a revamp of this spell for at least 6 years now!
A preferred fix would include stack with all other classes melee buffs (as the original does), and would hopefully have some mechanic which stacks nicely for burn dps rather than a baseline dps boost. A significant enough boost to base dps would be acceptable to us though, I think. The resulting spell would also have enough of a boost to be an efficient use of mana to cast on ourselves. I think we'd all like to see a duration extension, even with the concomitant mana cost increase. A group version would be entertained if it's cost is tuned appropriately.
Defensive side - A per hit spell rune would be nice to see. Alternately, a chance of spell resist or reflect wouldn't be bad. Some form of HPs gained would be nice to see back in it, preferably through heroic Stamina so we don't have stacking issues.
Offensive side - a significant number of + heroic strength would work the best I think for this (tuned for a dps boost similar to what was seen in Luclin era). It wouldn't stack as nicely with most discipline effects, but would stack with hundred hands effects.
2 - too much spell overlap
Pet Heals - We have 2 pet heal AAs, 3 pet runes, and 4 separate pet heal spells. This is simply ridiculous overkill for a pet that does less dps than a shadowknight pet. Please drop the Minax's mending line, and add to our Salve of Reshan line to reach that healing potential. Friendly Pet is also still a largely useless spell. If the heal doesn't land on the mob's target, it isn't worth casting. If we reverted back to the Salve line and the Promised Mending line, it would be a sensible situation. In keeping with our hybrid nature, a cast time reduction on the Salve line would be very well received.
Spiritual Verve line - the mid-range combination of HPs and Attack gets little use. A secondary effect to make this buff more desireable would be nice. As it stands, if a ranger or paladin are about, I *never* cast this spell.
Focus of Yemall line - this is our smaller version of Shaman focus, which has overly stagnated. While we don't expect a buff competitive with shaman, a small version of the overcap stats which they receive would be great. Shaman focus lines have had stat cap increases since Omens of War with Wunshi's Focusing. It is certainly time for Beastlords to receive a smaller version of this, to help reduce the buffing ability gap a bit.
3 - cast time reductions
Please reduce timers on all in-combat spells to 0.5 seconds. This mainly would affect our heal line (Cadmael's Mending), pet heals (Salve of Reshan, etc), and werewolf pet (Yowl at the Moon, Haergen's Feralgia).
4 - Too damn many dps spells to weave
Please consolidate some of our older dps spell lines, and let one version stagnate from now. As it stands, I keep 9 or 10 dps spells cast on a mob to maximize my dps. Because of how spread out our power is, a beastlord is more likely to get carpal tunnel syndrome than a bard.
We have two 30 second cold nuke lines, one of which gets updated each exansion. Please double the power of one, and keep upgrading that one alone...the other one will stagnate rapidly (they're already barely worth casting). We also have two insta-cast poison and two insta-cast disease DoTs. Please do something similar to these, so that the previously versions stagnate and aren't worth using (I'm not sure what you could do to block them though, honestly). This would still leave seven spells to weave, which is still a ridiculous number, but one that is at least somewhat manageable.
5 - Poorly implemented spells
Fellgrip Jaws - let this line die. If we use the pet slow, we're focusing on the slow, and will care only about the resist mod on the slow. As is, the line is almost never used and upgrading the DoT won't change that.
Growl of the Jaguar - not poorly implemented, but not worth upgrading now that we have Haergen's Feralgia
Pet Haste - Unrivaled Rapidity is a great spell, but has an almost useless group haste autocast on it. We asked for years for a group haste, and would still love one, but having a nearly two hour pet buff with a 15 minute (with extension) simply makes no sense. Having it cost almost 1000 mana to recast, and being tied to our pet makes this even less workable. Please, at a minimum, increase the timer to be competitive with shammy or chanter haste duration. Alternate ideas would be increase the duration of our current single-target haste so it lasts ~1hour, implement Aura of Ferocity which was developed but never went live with PoR (best solution imo!), or give us a real separate group 50% haste with base duration the same as enc or shammy.
My personal order of priority out of this list for these to occur:
DPS spell consolidation
Ferocity revamp
Group Haste
Buff upgrades
6 - Spells that haven't kept up
Player cast heals - our base heal now (rk2) is less than 4% of a reasonably geared grouping beastlord, and even less on a tank class. I know that the HP inflation isn't necessarily indicative of where the dev team wants players to be, but please, for the love of god, at least double the base heal and double recast timer!
Cripples - our last cripple was received at lvl 54 (incapacitate). We'd fall over ourselves in happiness to receive the version that shaman got in Omens.
QuotePlease consolidate some of our older dps spell lines, and let one version stagnate from now. As it stands, I keep 9 or 10 dps spells cast on a mob to maximize my dps. Because of how spread out our power is, a beastlord is more likely to get carpal tunnel syndrome than a bard. Please combine our two poison DoT lines into one spell, and let one stagnate. Please combine our two disease DoT lines into one spell, and let one stagnate. Please combine our two 30 second cold nuke lines into one spell, and let one stagnate. That will still leave seven spells to weave, which is still a ridiculous number, but one that is at least somewhat manageable.
Umm, this summary confuses me, so how could the dev's follow?
What two poison DoT lines? Far as I know, ALL of our poison DoT's are still stackable. Only the last two are instant-cast.
What two disease DoT lines? I'm only aware of one line, which is totally timer-linked.
Then there's one poison DD line, timer-linked.
Two cold DD lines, timer-linked.
Yowl Pets.
And Frozen Venom poison/cold DD from UF.
That's eight. What are the others? Or are you counting clickies or non-spell abilities?
Quote from: Khauruk on May 26, 2010, 02:03:27 AM
6 - Spells that haven't kept up
Player cast heals - our base heal now (rk2) is less than 4% of a reasonably geared grouping beastlord, and even less on a tank class. I know that the HP inflation isn't necessarily indicative of where the dev team wants players to be, but please, for the love of god, at least double the base heal and double recast timer!
Cripples - our last cripple was received at lvl 54 (incapacitate). We'd fall over ourselves in happiness to receive the version that shaman got in Omens.
A ) yes, increase the heal already, the tiny piece we can heal is pointless on a mob which sigle rounds for more than the heal. The recast timer is FINE where it is.
B ) More cripple please.
Quote from: Nusa on May 26, 2010, 06:03:44 AM
Umm, this summary confuses me, so how could the dev's follow?
What two poison DoT lines? Far as I know, ALL of our poison DoT's are still stackable. Only the last two are instant-cast.
What two disease DoT lines? I'm only aware of one line, which is totally timer-linked.
Then there's one poison DD line, timer-linked.
Two cold DD lines, timer-linked.
Yowl Pets.
And Frozen Venom poison/cold DD from UF.
That's eight. What are the others? Or are you counting clickies or non-spell abilities?
Edited. Can you tell I haven't actually been in game in 2-3 months for more than a moment? :D
Now that I go over it, I don't know what you mean by timer-linked disease DoTs and non-timer linked poison DoTs. I'd call them all non-timer linked (now that I'm thinking straight). Sadly, that complicates the matter of letting one stagnate.
10 spells - Haergen's, Yowl, poison nuke, 2 cold nukes, frozen venom, 4 DoTs.
You're right, the timer doesn't really matter on disease dot's since it only affects the recast time (1.5 sec), but it is there. I guess what really matters is how many spell icons you can devote to DoT's. But then there's no point in having 12 spell icons if you don't use them, is there?
Quote from: Hzath on May 08, 2010, 10:29:34 AM
Quote from: Mazame on May 08, 2010, 06:39:25 AMPromised Rejuvenation: I for one think this is nice for clerics but as a pet heal my pet doesn't last long enough for me to wait for this heal to trigger. You can remove this line.
Very strange. Dragonscale Guard and Promised line are the only 2 pet heal spells I use outside of extreme circumstances.
I use regular pet heal and bulvark of tres'quesos (spelling tm). Never bought promised line since mages got it nerfed.
-Raz
Quote from: Karve on May 26, 2010, 08:41:27 AM
Quote from: Khauruk on May 26, 2010, 02:03:27 AM
6 - Spells that haven't kept up
Player cast heals - our base heal now (rk2) is less than 4% of a reasonably geared grouping beastlord, and even less on a tank class. I know that the HP inflation isn't necessarily indicative of where the dev team wants players to be, but please, for the love of god, at least double the base heal and double recast timer!
Cripples - our last cripple was received at lvl 54 (incapacitate). We'd fall over ourselves in happiness to receive the version that shaman got in Omens.
A ) yes, increase the heal already, the tiny piece we can heal is pointless on a mob which sigle rounds for more than the heal. The recast timer is FINE where it is.
B ) More cripple please.
A big fat heal which isn't anywhere near mana efficient and has no re-cast time would be my choice, as opposed to a big fat heal which is mana efficient and has a long re-cast time. Or a big self-only heal.
Personally I'd go with poor efficiency emergency heal, as I really don't like re-cast timers. Plus I can't burn my whole mana bar with nukes anyhow, so a poor efficiency heal would give us another way to convert that useless mana into something useful :p
If its going to be 2/3 or more of a shaman heal, then naturally it would have a proper casting time, not fast-cast. We don't want to become regular healers, so anything with a short cast time could hurt us in the end, but we do want to be able to heal in a pinch. Utility healing as opposed to regular healing. Where we have a choice between healing spell or DPS spell, but not using them both together and still meleeing, which would simply be more button mashing hell.
To be frank, if they made our current heal instant I still wouldn't use it. The heal amount is important, and roughly 2k base is so poor it doesn't even cover 1/2 of a single mob melee round.
Quote from: Khauruk on May 26, 2010, 02:03:27 AM
6 - Spells that haven't kept up
Our little AC buff Shifting Sheild is another good example, while not much AC it was still better then no AC. I used to use it quite a bit soloing and sometimes grouping depending on classes in the group. Wouldn't mind seeing this updated or maybe merged into Spiritual Verve for hp/ac/attack buff.
It could cause stacking issues with Gallantry since our ac buff is on the same slot as the ac in gallantry
Spells
Totem of the Savage Spirits - (needs casting component Tailored TS item, stack, buyable components ?)
Summons Item : Totem of the Savage Spirits - No Trade, 2 charges
Casts -
Summons an 10 slot No Trade Bag with the following :
Collar of the Savage Spirits (waist item) - provides AC/HP (of about 67% to 75% of equivalent mage belt?), Mod2s
Fetish of (x) (one for each of the six spirits freed during the bst epic 1.0, ie Omakin, etc.)
Each fits in one of (chest, arms, legs, hands, feet & head) - provide AC/HP as above
Talon of the Savage Spirits (pri weapon, no proc, effect with increase damage all skills (x))
Fang of the Savage Spirits (sec weapon, no proc, effect with increase chance to hit all skills (+x%))
Spell summons a Staff similar in appearance to epic 1.5/2.0. Each of the animal spirits carved on the totem has a removable fetish that is part of it, ie a wolfs eye, tiger's claw, snake's tongue, gorilla's paw, etc. Each detaches from the staff, with the snake's tongue being one end of of a longer strip that is tied around the warder's neck as the collar. Each fetish is then tied to the collar with a thong or in the case of the "weapons" to the forelegs or the warder.
The magic each of the (grateful) freed spirits empowers these items with magic to strengthen and protect the summoning beastlord's warder. When both set of fetishes have been removed from the totem , it crumbles to dust.
The description of the staff, although of no real impact on game mechanics , is a way to explain the how and why of giving us "pet gear" of our own. Assigning indiviual slots to the items is a way to keep abuse to a minimum. While the bag is no trade, the gear really can't be, so while its meant for someone's OWN warder, I suppose you can toss the gear on somebody ele's pet without some programming work to stop this.
No procs but extra damage/chance to hit is imo a better option for us since it will help our warders with hitting and damage which they need instead of adding more Procs, which they don't.
Hey speaking of 'totems' how abour some sort of spell that you cast that creates a stationary ward. Maybe put fero aura on that.
That would solve the problem of giving us a aura as hybrids and would keep the attack whore dpsers off our backs.
Quote from: wildwaters on May 28, 2010, 04:55:22 AM
Hey speaking of 'totems' how abour some sort of spell that you cast that creates a stationary ward. Maybe put fero aura on that.
That would solve the problem of giving us a aura as hybrids and would keep the attack whore dpsers off our backs.
Personally I'd like to see a useful revamp to the spell itself, like suggested here before. We need perhaps a group version of fero, or the reuse timer greatly reduced/removed, to allow us to then cast it efficiently on group members...
For raiding, making fero a useful group dps buff, makes us more appealing to the dps groups, where we would want to be imo.
a totem that is limited to only boosts the group could possibly work as well I suppose, but I'm not a total fan of that since you'd lose the effect soon as you stepped away from the totems range. Then you'd end up having to reclick it after each time the group moved.
Oh -- Would rather see any stat overcap buffs we might get be added as a separate spell similar to "Infusion of Spirit". While it would require an extra buff slot, overall it would make us more useful since other classes could use their own self HP buffs and still be able to get stat overcaps with it.
As for pet proc choice ... meh - just make it a chromatic resist from now on & give it a better stun duration/max level (ie expansion max spell level +3). Use the 5 or 6 spell difference between us and the rest of the hybrid classes for some more utility spells like a disease based slow/cripple combo (with dbl atk penalty), the stat overcap buff for str/sta/dex and the pet gear spell at minimum.
Other possibilities include : A long duration pet buff that has the same benefits as the epic 2.0 click except the add proc part of the buff is replaced by something that increases the proc rate of the other pet procs and adds a twinproc chance. A Poison DD/silence combo (Civet Strike), defensive deaggro buff (protective coloration), a Frenzy upgrade with heroic stats, pet/self listlessness buff, a replenishing over time pet rune buff (salamander skin guard) or a damage boosted poison/disease DoT combo similar to frozen venom.
A good source for potential spells would be those that would give us access to many of the offensive/defensive/utility abilities found throughout the animal kingdom.
This is beastlords now :-(
This is what a beastlords should be come next expansion 8-) & :-D maybe even a little :-o
Beastlords if the devs don't dig in and DO something extensive & POSITIVE - a little :cry: , mostly :x and quite possibly ( )
Not sure if it's implementable but a "cyclic proc" might be useful.
As an example, we AA buff warder with the first proc in the cycle - Lockfang Jaws with 1 charge. On proc it attempts to slow the target 70% and buffs pet with second proc buff in the cycle - Crippling Strike with one charge which reduces the targets AC/stats and buffs the pet with the third proc in the cycle - Hobble of Spirits with one charge which snares target 60% and buffs pet with Lockfang Jaws, restarting the cycle. Refreshing the buff manually with a hotbutton would of course reset whatever the current proc is to Lockfang Jaws in this case.
That's just an example but it might be a good way to allow our warders to be able to handle multiple secondary effects (snare/slow for instance) without requiring us to micromanage or continually manually swap effects.
Cyclical defensive procs might be possible as well. The procs switch between listlessness, DS and a Heal perhaps. Same prinicple as above but the first hit activates the first and proc buffs the second, second hit activates the second proc and buffs the third, third hit activates the third and buffs the first, etc.
I'm sure it could "count down" as well, to provide a finish. Charge counter starts at 50 and counts down by one every time it switches.
Sounds just like the shaman spell splash of runedust.
Quote from: nedoirah on May 31, 2010, 01:49:53 AM
Sounds just like the shaman spell splash of runedust.
Sort of. But its not a random thing. Procs would always land in sequence, in the main example, the first proc is ALWAYS slow, the second is ALWAYS cripple, the third is ALWAYS hobble, since this is probably the preferred order we'd like to see them land in. The proc cycle may end anywhere in the cycle and pick it up at the next one in sequence, but from when its cast it will always start with slow. This keeps the evil RNG out of the equation and with it the chance that the first 5 procs will be snare, snare, snare, cripple, slow. With a decent proc rate all 3 buffs should land and make a difference.
I really like the idea of the cyclical proc for the warder, but I can't really see the devs going for it unless it was just 1 proc of each before needing to be refreshed. I say that because look at lockfang, even after lots of complaining it's only up to 10 (?) counters before it fades and that only does one function.
I like the cyclic proc idea too but that goes against the devs stated wish of not haiving a fire and forget pet. They want us to have to manage them via positioning and spell selection.
Quote from: Grbage on June 03, 2010, 06:56:20 PM
I like the cyclic proc idea too but that goes against the devs stated wish of not haiving a fire and forget pet. They want us to have to manage them via positioning and spell selection.
Yeah, well the devs need to stop picking on beastlords. Manage this, control that. Desync just about EVERYTHING - 9 sec refresh here, 12 there, 17.5 here, 20 sec there, 50 sec, add in refreshing short duration buffs and clicks, have a bunch of them force retargeting on pet, etc. Now toss in positioning, pet so its OTing a mob, merc so its hasn't just stoped on top of a mob an therefore a target, you so you're not getting hit by OTed mob, all of them so push won't make adds, repositioning on the fly as new swarm pets enter the mix or enrage starts. Keep track of health on 3 targets, warder merc and you - and keep any pet heals going to keep pet alive/merc aggro down/DPS maxxed/and you healed with enough of a buffer that a UF mobs wont one shot you. Don't forget to slow everything, DoT stuff, etc -- allowing for multiple casts multiple times given that we have nothing but single target spells with resist penetration bad enough to require 2 or 3 casts of vital spells on even grey mobs. NOW add in keeping charge limited pet buffs that are mutually exclusive? Let's see, what else... oh continually move yourself so you aren't just pushed out of melee range while still being hit, timed between everything you can't move during. Oh, (Focused) Paragon here and there during longer fights I suppose, too.
You're telling me a little bit of "automation" will turn pet into something classifiable as "fire and forget" by the devs, suddenly making things too easy for us? Gees, I'm surprised they haven't decided to add a couple of things, like making Misty Thicket Picnics from scratch during combat as spell components and maybe needing to play /gems for "balance".
Honestly, given the effort and focus I need to keep on top of everything I need to be doing for as close to optimal performance as possible, just to not look like I'm slacking compared to a "real" DPS class (ie those classes that insist we are a utility class, so we don't really need new/more DPS abilites when expansion time rolls around, but that they do.), I have never even attempted boxing. 1 boxing a beastlord properly is more than enough work, tyvm.
If the devs add much more in the way of "managing" requirements for us and our pets, there will be advantages, I suppose. Most of us will end up being qualified to manage real time control of a nuclear reactor with no more than minimal hardware & software support. :D
Quote from: Umlat on June 04, 2010, 06:35:24 PM
like making Misty Thicket Picnics from scratch during combat as spell components
lol I got a good chuckle out of trying to visualize that =)
How about a Feral Bodyguard spell?
Kinda copy mages Hulking Bodyguard spell but instead of the earth elemental make it proc a old school nectulos forrest Kodiak bear to protect us?
You summed it up pretty well Umlat.
FYI, running a nuclear reactor is easier then playing a bst to full potential. Done both so I should know.
It's probably about time we consolidate our AA and spell lists, somehow vote on them and rank our top suggestions so we can give a good list to the devs.
Quote from: Sharrien on June 08, 2010, 01:27:10 PM
It's probably about time we consolidate our AA and spell lists, somehow vote on them and rank our top suggestions so we can give a good list to the devs.
Not much point, for the moment. Aristo already has spells done I believe, and we're just waiting on them to get mined out of a spell data file. They might show up in the 9th, but likely the patch after (due to design lock).
Once we have an idea of what's showing back up that we don't want, we can lobby a bit harder for changes.
In other words, we are too late for providing effective input and our only hope is damage control?
I assumed they were going to say at some point, give us the inputs for your class by whatever date. One of these days I'll learn not at assume :(
Quote from: Sharrien on June 08, 2010, 06:25:53 PM
In other words, we are too late for providing effective input and our only hope is damage control?
I assumed they were going to say at some point, give us the inputs for your class by whatever date. One of these days I'll learn not at assume :(
I have some hope for the expansion. Aristo and Elidroth seem to be a bit more attuned to there being *a* need for focusing in Beastlords in the upcoming expansion. We've had some CLs in the serverwide chat in response to a request from Aristo for ideas for beastlords (and threads here were subsequently forwarded as well). Elidroth obviously is looking at burst dps potential. I stopped by the EQLive forums for the first time in ages this morning too, and I think it's abundantly clear that Beastlords are considered a class in dire straits by the community (raid rankings thread, despised classes) and the Beastlord's Cave section is pretty depressing (good point is that it's clear to anybody reading).
Now, of course, we'll see what we see, but I think there's at least more precedence for fruitful communication from the last beta w/ class-based dev chats, and once we see what spells are like in beta, we should try to schedule one of those right off the bat.
Of course, this is all based on me actually getting into beta last year, and not logging in to the forums from a friend's toon....
Wow, that despised classes thread is the worst pile of crap I've read in awhile now. Really goes to show how little people know about this game.
Quote from: Dilgartownguard on June 09, 2010, 02:20:03 AM
Wow, that despised classes thread is the worst pile of crap I've read in awhile now. Really goes to show how little people know about this game.
Most people only want to know "enough" to justify their particular position on improvements for a class or classes. Only very rarely does anybody bother trying to provide an overall perspective or an objective viewpoint. That SHOULD be something that is one of the primary concerns of the developers and community leaders. As the despised classes thread shows, apparently at least some of the CLs view see it as more of a lobbying platform. Anybody, I don't care what class, who publicly states his primary concern is for his class and not the game as a whole shouldn't be a CL. Community leaders are not CLASS leaders. Yes, CLs should come from every class and that class should be played as a main, but the purpose is to provide expertise and insight, not an agenda.
Yes, I admit I stirred things up in that thread, but we've played nice so far and look where it's gotten us; ignored and sidelined. Patch notes certainly show a distinct lack of meaningful beastlord changes since UF release beyond the late AA release in April, which everyone got.
Of course if I want to be honest, I have to say taking off the kid gloves and letting loose just plain felt good. Civility sometimes only gets you so far.
I know what you mean Umlat, its been nice to rile some feathers, rais eawareness and see the general concesus of players chiming in saying bsts need a boost.
It would also be nice if the bsts who apped for CL duty were accepted... what hapened there? and Tulisin really should either change his stance on things or step down and let a main Bst particpate.
[apology for derail]
Tulisin's presence in the CL program has no bearing on the presence of a bst main in the program. There is no set number of people, class makeup, etc.
Per one decent former CL at least, the program is at least as equally ineffective, ignorant, and biased as any of the class leader programs that have existed through the years, so I'm not sure having a beastlord on there would be helpful. Not that I'd turn down a chance to have a look-see at the few things they tell CLs about pre-release, and have a closer conduit to the devs :D
I'm not sure how effective the current CL program is but it is probably at least a bit better then past attempts. Only reason I say this is they actually have a dedicated board for them to communicate back and forth with the devs. First time that has happened, in the past work was done via PM's to individual devs and no real discussion happened.
thre are more CL coming into the mix, when? I dont know Zatozia not giving confirmed date. We have to sign a legal document and heard thats been redone
so it takes time to get new CL on board
Last bunch of CL, were introduced right after Fan Faire I believe
Thanks for the update Tadenea.
Great news, fingers crossed. Not gonna hold my breath though for obvious reasons :)