The Beastlords' Den

Everquest 1 => The Campfire => Topic started by: Khauruk on December 17, 2010, 06:47:30 PM

Title: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on December 17, 2010, 06:47:30 PM
Quotehttp://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=172103

Folks,

Now that we've played around in HoT, and top raiders are starting to farm the top tier zones, what are your thoughts on complaints/weaknesses as we stand?

Also, time to start looking at ideas for AAs/spells for next expansion.  Please do this w/ a focus towards things that don't require new code or step on others toes too much.  Also keep in mind that the AA system is getting very stretched - upgrades to some lines may not be feasible/etc.

I'll be putting some thoughts of my own together as well, and combining it with things here, w/ an eye towards getting a first set of information to developers w/in a month or so.

Cheers,

Khauruk
Moderator, beastlords.org

Ideas here, or ideas there, Express Yourself! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsVcUzP_O_8)
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Lathon on January 13, 2011, 08:25:36 AM
well.... I can think of a few things but there a re a few specifics i would love to see improved on. Just reading this today after a decent break fromthe board but silraiding and grouping so gonna post as such. With that said if the topic has been brought up already then Oops.

gonna keep it short and sweet..... for now.

1) Playing Possum - I will admit that after using it for a while and seeing how handy it can be for aggro and "Oh Noes" moment (when it works) ... I would like to see AA's to improve the refresh rate and aa's to have us stay fd thru a spell hit. i can deal with the same proc rate but woiuld like to see a lil more improvement with it since it is usful and no we aren't pullers as stated By Elidroth.. but.. he did say that he would improve on this so i would like to see it.

2) Empathic Fury (disc) - can we please get it fixed so it doesn't target pet anymore, no it isn't serious but it is annoying since everything else has been geared to stay on target mob but this disc.


3) Not really a request moreso than a question but is Beastial Vivification over-writing Empathic Fury when clicked cause it damn sure does it to me when i was still trying to figure it out.. at least it seems to be overwritting something.. can we fix it so it either stacks or says we can't use the disc or something....  I would like to see BV stack with Emp Fury and not consider it a disc but a burst tool so we can still use Protection of Spirit if need be when using it solo.

4) Guardian of the warder - can't even use mine anymore due to my item clicks and w/e else i keep buffed up, can this me made separate from everthing else so it is not a useless AA, would be nice to have it stack separately as a secondary stay alive method

Just tossing stuff out there atm that kinda affects my play and the fact that it is almost 4am means i will need to look at this againm later tomorrow to make sure i pointed out the issues properly  :-)
Feedback is a plus
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Lathon on January 13, 2011, 08:55:26 AM
Also... (while we are tossing ideas out there)

The game mechanics are changing with each expansion which means each class ( minus healers) have to change, respectively. 90% have a fade or fd or def of some sort. These days tanking can be done by most classes however we each have our own perks or specifics. For some reason Beastlords seem to be tanking more often than not due to the fact that we CAN. we have the aggro modified spells to do so even with SCS maxxed (pointless AA imo).

WE have our ac hard cap regardless of what we might do to keep it down if you actually try, we have aggro mods on our spell which basically seems to have cancelled out any SCS aa's trained AND a nice lil def disc to boot...sooooo what i am asking / proposing:

1) either raise the softcap for ac ( not gonna happen).. figured i would toss that out before asking for what i really wanna see...

2) add aa's to raise our Def disc to 24 secs with same reuse timer and possibly (maybe) add a shield block AA since we are able to wield a shield as well ..

By no means am i insinuating that we should be tanks but since we have the ability to and do on some occasions it can't hurt to ask on a lesser lvl.. Either that or load us with more DPS and Burst utilities (which i am opting for)
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Kakan on January 13, 2011, 11:02:48 PM
Quote from: Lathon on January 13, 2011, 08:55:26 AM

2) possibly (maybe) add a shield block AA since we are able to wield a shield as well ..


We have the shield block AA....it's only 3 ranks but we do have it.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Zunar on January 13, 2011, 11:41:54 PM
I also think we could use some help in the defensive department, which could be done in many ways...
Up our AC softcap with a class version of armor of wisdom-like AAs, just to put us closer to other melee/hybrid classes ability to take hits.

I think we could use some help still with burst dps, by upgrading our Bestial alignment AA, empathic fury disc, or add an effect that boosts our spell crits for a shorter time, with a 10min reuse maybe.

Playing possum needs improvement imo too. The 30 second reuse could be done down to 12 seconds, and it'd still be annoyingly long...just situationally less deadly to us on a fail (could atleast fire protective spirit disc and try using FD again before it wears off)
100% agree on the spell immunity AAs for Playing possum.
Of couse it'd be nice to see an increase to the success rate as well, but I don't know if all changes mentioned already would happen then....but it has room for improvement too still.

Personally  I'd like to see Bolstering warder upgraded into more usefulness, since it never got to work as a defensive proc as intended. Up the heals on it, because over half of them will be wasted anyways cuz of the random proccing, imo (it'll often heal when tank is on full HPs already). Another option is to make it a rune buff instead of a heal proc.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Mordeb42 on January 14, 2011, 02:29:19 PM
My thoughts. 
First I feel we are good in the tanking department. 
We are Weak on holding agro, strong on stealing it,and ok on giving it back. 
I don't raid, so burst/burn isn't as high on my list of priorities. 
I would like us to stay near the top on non-burn dps.

First assumption.  Next expansion won't increase levels.

AAs
Gelid Claw self-proc AA
--AAs to increase debuff/damage
Playing possum
--AAs to increase success rate
--AAs to reduce reuse
Protective Spirit[Very powerful]
--More AAs to reduce reuse
--AAs to increase duration / # of hits
Warder's Gift
--AAs to reduce reuse
--AAs to increase heal
Asp/Claw/Smash
--AAs to increase effect
Chamelion Strike
--AAs to increase effect
Companion's Sacrifice
--AAs to reduce Reuse
More Paragon AAs.
New Activated AA--Pet Summon Master
1hr reuse/ instant Cast/ Does not wipe agro.  Pet can summon BST to pets location. 
Can work well when parking pet, and BST out of position due to AOE or doing quest turn in.  Etc.

New passive AA-Draw Blood.  Desc: "When a beastlord critically strikes an opponent, there is a chance to draw blood"
1 tick dot that does ~1k posion damage next tick.  Devs have already proven they can create passive procs with Gelid Claw. 
This should only work with H2H weapons like Gelid Claw and only be able to trigger off a critical strike.
--AAs 4 ranks Rnk1-6AA-250damage/Rnk2--9AA--500dmg/Rnk3--12AA--750dmg/Rnk4--15AA--1000dmg

Don't laught at the next one.  But I sure wanted it the other night pulling upper CY in SS.
New Passive AA [Door Jam]
AA causes doors opened to stay open for 1 more tick per rank. 
Might not be easily done by DEV team.  I think, Monks would love this one.



Spells:
Group Fero
New--Blind spell--Effect: 3tick dot debuff with fast cast slow recast [Divination].
Effect 1 blindness and maybe some -dex debuff maybe small heal on targets targt, 3 ticks of add +1k agro.
Purpose of blind spell to to assist in holding agro when bst is the group tank and Chaos pulling tool.

Disc:
New Empathic Fury.  That doesn't change targets.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Sharrien on January 14, 2011, 03:00:08 PM
I don't know how workable it would be but i love the door jam idea.  Maybe it could create an object in the doorway that would make the door think someone is still standing there and keep it open.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: AbyssalMage on January 14, 2011, 05:16:43 PM
Quote from: Sharrien on January 14, 2011, 03:00:08 PM
I don't know how workable it would be but i love the door jam idea.  Maybe it could create an object in the doorway that would make the door think someone is still standing there and keep it open.

Doors open/close reguardless if an object is in the way.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on January 14, 2011, 05:20:18 PM
Well, from my understanding, auras are invisible NPCs who cast a spell and move with you.  Or, in the case of a chanter's tash turd, stays in one place.  Perhaps we could have a doorstop aura/NPC who just spams the "u" key? :D

Crimson Tempest is now recruiting one (1) high playtime beastlord to hold open our doors!!
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Mordeb42 on January 14, 2011, 06:07:34 PM
Glad you guys like the door jam idea.  A single totem wouldn't help in a place where you are running through multiple doors.

The code to support it would have the server check the PC that opened the door for the AAs, then adjust the time the door is open based on these aa's.  It might be hard coded in the graphic engine.  All doors might have a hard coded timer.  If so I don't see a good way to implement it.

I died pulling upper CY in SS with my BST.  I kept having to open the doors repeatedly when running from room to room.  I would get stunned and take a beating.  Only died once, but that is when the idea came to me.

I guess it might be more class specific to bard/rog.  But I think if the AA is feasible they could give to more classes.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: AbyssalMage on January 14, 2011, 06:14:17 PM
With the love we received during HoT, I would say we finally started heading in the correct direction.

Other than standard upgrades for current AA's/Spells and getting AA's/Spells fixed (that they continue to upgrade, yet are worthless. i.e. Taste of Blood & Fero) new Spell/AA's I would like to see introduced...

AA and/or Spell Slow - Better Duration and/or resist adjustment (Im fine with % b/c of mob mitigation)

AA and/or Spell "Fast" Poison DoT - 5 tic DoT (Modeled after the other classes. High Damage, short duration, instant cast, non mana efficient, 18 sec refresh for group play)

AA (Headshot/Assasinate) AA - Make it work against Animals (possibility because they are already programmed "weaker con") and triggers of Feral Swipe (Feral Swipe pre-req). This is more of a fun AA line and Sony already directly controls the animal content in any zone thanks to Druid Charm. ***Side Note*** This could also be bad because they will never possible hasten Feral Swipe in the future. And as of this posting, they already did the nerf to Headshot to Rangers.

AA Pet FD - He should be able to play oppusom also.

AA so that oppusom doesn't fail when a spell lands on us and is resisted. Or at least gives us a 90% chance to stay "playing dead" if we resist the spell.

Group Defensive Dics - I already know many contributers to this site don't want Sony messing with our Defensive Disc line but this came about from a raid I was invited to yesturday. A copy/paste of our defensive but effects the group (v1 so that it can't be MGB) with same reuse as our current Disc. The catch is that it takes 100% of your endurance and has a minimum endurance cost to activate (Basically makes sure you have the endurance so you don't use after, or soon after, a rez). The HIGH endurance cost is to prevent abuse (or future abuse) and considering that you are using your "spiritual energies" to protect an entire group, you theoretically would be quite drained after the ordeal.

Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Mordeb42 on January 14, 2011, 06:53:35 PM
Anyone else as bored at work as I am? HeHe.

Hmm, group defensive.   I think the version you mentioned might work. I would propose considering the following thoughts and explore it some more.   Large Endurance cost is fine.  100% is too much though. Maybe a 1-2 hit melee guard effect vs. replicating our disc on everyone.

I thought of a group disc that would be interesting. 
Group Bloodlust.  For the next tic, all pets in group hit for critical damage.
This one is very offensive, and scales in power the more pets in group.  Reuse could be 5 min. 
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: kharthai on January 14, 2011, 07:35:45 PM
Am for:
- AA's to make Possum fail less or faster reuse, also some sort of "stonewall" to stay fd when hit by spells
- Bestial Bloodrage and Divine Companion Aura being put on different timers (if it is possible without borking something else)
- Hastened Warder's Gift
- More ranks of Hastened Bestial Alignment, bring it down to 20 mins at most
- Fixing Empathic Fury so it doesn't target pet, and isn't locked out if hit while Bestial Vivisection is up
- Instant cast Focused Paragon, increase mana/hp return on it too
- Extended Protective Spirit (probably 6 seconds total)
- Activated AA that casts 4 werewolves or preferably makes the next X casts of Shout at the Moon (or whatever upgrade is called) summon 4
- Turn SV into the preferred brells of casters as has been previously suggested (leave brells for tanks, ranger stuff for melee dps etc)
- Rework 3rd spire into some sort of spell damage boost, or make a 4th spire if those are still coming, that does same thing
- Pet illusion clicky on class only item in group content (personal preference is lion or rhino)

I turn my nose up at:
Group Pet disc - I raid, so pretty much against anything that will tempt RL to remove me from a melee dps group, though this would have to be pretty powerful to do so
Passive DoT - Activated is fine, but there are times when you don't want dots on a mob, and don't want to have to switch weapons etc
Assassinate/Headshot - Actually against anything that is animal only, but with the recent drama with rangers headshot isn't a road I want to go down etc
Canni - /sigh

No offense to those who suggested that stuff either, but we did get cat-like reflexes last year so :p
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Mordeb42 on January 14, 2011, 09:25:06 PM
Instead of activate AA for Shout at the Moon for 100% 4x pets, what would you think of a passive + % chance for 4 style of AA?

Wasn't there an AA in beta for pets summoning pets or something they couldn't get to work correctly?

Speaking of spires, there been any news on the possibility of the 4th.  Also were there any suggestions given from the community?

/Cheer Workday over, can go home now.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Zunar on January 15, 2011, 11:12:52 AM
Flurries, or at very least an activated ability to increase our flurries for a couple minutes would be nice imo (nice for burst dps)
Maybe a second version of Flurry of Claws that hits single target only. Aimed Flurry of claws.
Warder's Gemination would be nice to see this time. (activated ability that makes pet double proc for one min)
Maybe a small upgrade to both Bestial Alignment and Empathic fury.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Vidyne on January 15, 2011, 05:34:52 PM
Quote from: Mordeb42 on January 14, 2011, 09:25:06 PM
Wasn't there an AA in beta for pets summoning pets or something they couldn't get to work correctly?

Friendly pet?
They had issues making the pets know who their master was, they said.   They would turn around and attack group members or something like that.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Orbus1 on January 15, 2011, 07:06:56 PM
1.  Some kind of castable snare/root would be awesome. Pet snare can even overwrite either, but being able to cast as needed would be awesome.
2.  Group Fero(as already mentioned) I would prefer group castable vs aura so there are no issues, and timer extension aa's
3.  AA's to lessen FD fail rate.
4.  Being able to summon pet gear or our pet being created with gear. I think it would also be awesome to be able to see it, an armored white wolf       would look kick butt. Or give us ranks to our pets, Rk I is basic, Rk II has armor, Rk III has armor and weapons when summoned. No procs on the weapons that are summoned either, I don't want to have to deal with my pet having a fire/ice or whatever proc and I can't use him like on the snake in Masked Invaders.
5.  Flurry would be nice but I just use the personal tribute one and have for a long time.
6.  The ideas for SV are interesting, gives a niche for it to be used on raids and I am sure the casters won't mind.
7.  The usual upgrades and pluses we normally get: lower fail rate on possum, CS/CA, triple and double attack and so on.
8.  Make Gelid Claw an aa that we have to activate.

In regards to the suggestion about another passive aa that causes damage I don't want to see it, in fact as I mentioned in my list I would like to see Gelid Claw taken off the passive list. We already have raid mobs now that I can't attack on because I can't control Gelid Claw, I don't want to have to deal with another one.



Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Hzath on January 15, 2011, 07:34:09 PM
Quote from: Vidyne on January 15, 2011, 05:34:52 PM
Quote from: Mordeb42 on January 14, 2011, 09:25:06 PM
Wasn't there an AA in beta for pets summoning pets or something they couldn't get to work correctly?

Friendly pet?
They had issues making the pets know who their master was, they said.   They would turn around and attack group members or something like that.

Prolific Minion.  Short duration AA that allowed the warder to proc his own pets (same model only tiny), belonging to the warder and being npcs there were indeed issues of them fighting players and other weird stuff.  Other than the "neat" factor it wasn't really much dps, and people would have hated us even more adding more pets to the mix.

Here's a screenshot from UF beta, if you look at the names you can see there's a ton of them.

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss199/mille424/EQ000079.jpg?t=1295119964
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Blarp on January 16, 2011, 01:48:41 AM
Im Vdery happy with the thigns we have gotten From HoT, that said we cant just fall off the map this next Xpack.

FD aa's FOr spells. hastened  success rate.
chem Strike, More ranks timer can stay the same reallly.
Bire os asp( all 3 lines) more ranks 1-2 more hastened ranks

But thats all going to be considered what is liek to see is maybe something new. or changed.

TASTE OF BLOOD, CHange it so its not a 100% worthless AA line and bring it back.
- Heres  how i think it would work, Proven with zerk's.

Make it Proc FOr the Beastlord and warder if the Player( beastlord) lands the fatel Blow or Fishing blow, BOth go into rage, make the proc More up to date and then  it would be usefull, i score TONS of final shots raid group and solo. this would be nice and zerkers all ready have it just need to ass the Code for it to hit pet as well,( its out there with the new  pet hastte so on)

Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Bumkus on January 16, 2011, 03:14:12 AM
I'd like to see group utility added to warder
Warder push for OTing (like Shm push back Root, but with our warder)
AE Slow
Pet Fade for Pulling.

Anything really.  The warder is just a buffable DoT in group play. 

Also, get rid of the damn werewolf illusion on pact.  Make a second AA that does same think but with no illusion, so people have their pick.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Zebrn Beasword on January 16, 2011, 03:33:44 AM
I like a lot of the ideas already generated.  My top two are...

1) Group Fero, even make the timer 1/2 the single version, I don't really care.
2) For the love of god, please make Pact of the Wurine into two buffs, illusion and other.  There is no reason an entire class should always have to be wurine form. 
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Blarp on January 16, 2011, 10:42:52 AM
Group fero id say is my number 1 fave Keep both lines Single target as is, and make a group one Even if it's just say 100% the same as we get now and the new single target fero is a small upgrade IM ok with that i casted fero at raids over 78 times 2 nights ago B4 alkbor fight.. i mean OMFG>
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Zunar on January 16, 2011, 12:04:56 PM
It could be nice if our poison and disease dot spells would be combined into one spell, that triggers both, like Kron's triggers several nukes.
Also I'd like to see those dot spells half their current duration and double the damage.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Blarp on January 16, 2011, 01:49:53 PM
that will never happen  but it be nice thats for sure but it cut our dps, they are insta cast and with tonic's/ ench aura( or mana flair) u dont get the proc for both.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Zunar on January 17, 2011, 09:22:45 AM
Frenzy of Spirit, to target our warder as well as self would be nice.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Mordeb42 on January 17, 2011, 06:59:00 PM
Quote from: Orbus1 on January 15, 2011, 07:06:56 PM
8.  Make Gelid Claw an aa that we have to activate.

In regards to the suggestion about another passive aa that causes damage I don't want to see it, in fact as I mentioned in my list I would like to see Gelid Claw taken off the passive list. We already have raid mobs now that I can't attack on because I can't control Gelid Claw, I don't want to have to deal with another one.

As a primary grouper, I didn't realize the proc was such a liability. 

What would rock is if SOE could create toggle keys for certain ablities.  Press the hotkey once and it stays down active.  Press it again and it pops up inactive.  I know a lot of bst would like to be able to toggle subtly etc.


Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Mordeb42 on January 17, 2011, 07:01:32 PM
Quote from: Blarp on January 16, 2011, 01:48:41 AM
TASTE OF BLOOD, CHange it so its not a 100% worthless AA line and bring it back.

I agree.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on January 17, 2011, 07:15:49 PM
The no fire/ice/whatever mechanisms are irritating with these AAs in game, but I expect them to be largely phased out next expansion as passe, in favor of a new irritating trivial to bypass mechanic for raids.

We can try for toggles, but there are actually code problems with that, per Prathun or Elidroth, and it's doubtful imo that they'd devote code time to this.  Especially given the number of years we were begging for deagro and now we're begging just to be able to control it to serve a role they don't envision the class having.

Taste of Blood sadly won't happen.  I'd love to try for an additional version which mimics the ranger AA like it though (except for the end regen that we don't need).
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: bradam on January 17, 2011, 07:30:06 PM
Quote from: Hzath on January 15, 2011, 07:34:09 PM
Quote from: Vidyne on January 15, 2011, 05:34:52 PM
Quote from: Mordeb42 on January 14, 2011, 09:25:06 PM
Wasn't there an AA in beta for pets summoning pets or something they couldn't get to work correctly?

Friendly pet?
They had issues making the pets know who their master was, they said.   They would turn around and attack group members or something like that.

Prolific Minion.  Short duration AA that allowed the warder to proc his own pets (same model only tiny), belonging to the warder and being npcs there were indeed issues of them fighting players and other weird stuff.  Other than the "neat" factor it wasn't really much dps, and people would have hated us even more adding more pets to the mix.

Here's a screenshot from UF beta, if you look at the names you can see there's a ton of them.

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss199/mille424/EQ000079.jpg?t=1295119964

ahh they were fun, sad panda that they didn't make it live  =/   
You'd literally have like 30+ up sometimes, it was hilarious.

I think some player AE spells were hitting them causing agro but I never had them attack me.  They did leave corpses if killed and sometimes dropped beta tokens/defiant gear I found lol. 

What I didn't like was they pretty gave them to every single class that could get some kind of crappy pet out.  Should have been a beast only aa, or at the very max a beast/mage/necro one imo
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Sevaril on January 17, 2011, 08:54:17 PM
Ok this isnt realy beast specific its just something my room mate recommended.
He just started playing eq for the first time ( a necro ) and realy realy likes aa's the only thing he wish there was, and to me it makes sense , is a way to plan what aa's you want to take in game and filter the crap or non wanted at time  like a personal buildable aa filter ,(( hell may exist just i dont know of one if it does OOPS!! lol ))
make things easier
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Nusa on January 17, 2011, 09:12:18 PM
Quote from: Sevaril on January 17, 2011, 08:54:17 PM
Ok this isnt realy beast specific its just something my room mate recommended.
He just started playing eq for the first time ( a necro ) and realy realy likes aa's the only thing he wish there was, and to me it makes sense , is a way to plan what aa's you want to take in game and filter the crap or non wanted at time  like a personal buildable aa filter ,(( hell may exist just i dont know of one if it does OOPS!! lol ))
make things easier
I do that with pen and paper every time an expansion comes out. Plan out my next 1000 AA and cross them off as I buy them. If there are still important AA left after the first 1000, sit down and plan another 1000. Etc.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Nusa on January 17, 2011, 09:23:46 PM
Quote from: Mordeb42 on January 17, 2011, 06:59:00 PM
Quote from: Orbus1 on January 15, 2011, 07:06:56 PM
8.  Make Gelid Claw an aa that we have to activate.

In regards to the suggestion about another passive aa that causes damage I don't want to see it, in fact as I mentioned in my list I would like to see Gelid Claw taken off the passive list. We already have raid mobs now that I can't attack on because I can't control Gelid Claw, I don't want to have to deal with another one.

As a primary grouper, I didn't realize the proc was such a liability. 

What would rock is if SOE could create toggle keys for certain ablities.  Press the hotkey once and it stays down active.  Press it again and it pops up inactive.  I know a lot of bst would like to be able to toggle subtly etc.

What raid mobs is gelid claw a problem on? None come to my mind right now. It's a DD/Debuff, not a DoT, so I can't see it preventing mezzes or blur abilities.

You actually can control it, even if it annoys you...it won't proc if you don't use H2H weapons. So pull out your bash and/or pierce weapons for those unusual situations.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Sevaril on January 17, 2011, 09:26:51 PM
ya thats what i ben doing he's a program a  a bit anal when it comes to easier features on programs lol i keep telling him its a game based off a 10year old engine lol
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: kharthai on January 17, 2011, 10:46:03 PM
Quote from: Nusa on January 17, 2011, 09:23:46 PM
What raid mobs is gelid claw a problem on? None come to my mind right now. It's a DD/Debuff, not a DoT, so I can't see it preventing mezzes or blur abilities.

You actually can control it, even if it annoys you...it won't proc if you don't use H2H weapons. So pull out your bash and/or pierce weapons for those unusual situations.

Event 4 in Convorteum, only if your guild fights him out of the lava, though.  Haven't seen (or at least, haven't noticed yet) anything in HoT.

Will also fire off Rush/Flurry of Claws occasionally, so watch that if switching weapons to avoid procs.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Orbus1 on January 18, 2011, 12:31:10 AM
If I am not mistaken you can't use it against one of the phases in Brells Temple either, and if I have to start switching weapons from my best dps weapons becasue of Gelid, what happens when a new passive AA we get is set to fire off blunt? I have to switch to pierce now? We have enough buttons to push without having to worry about switching weapons as well, unless thats the mechanic of the raid of course. I guess if the masses want it, then thats fine, but I doubt if I buy another passive DPS aa like Gelid until its been in use for a while and we see if it causes any issues.

Granted its not a big issue in the grand scheme of things, but why make it an issue at all? The toggle idea is interesting, kinda like the buttons for your pet where you can set attack or taunt or whatever on and off.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: kharthai on January 18, 2011, 12:42:28 AM
Oh yeah you're right, Creation.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Sevaril on January 18, 2011, 04:24:05 AM
i would have to agree it would make it nice to have it a toggle ability from what i read
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Karve on January 18, 2011, 12:46:17 PM
Time to batter some previously embalmed horses again ...

Still looking for companions relocation - behind me (alternative version of current relocation puts pet 20ft behind you). back off / summon is 1 too many clicks in our current clickyfest.

Being able to toggle some of the passive aa's : scs, gelid, pet fade(on summon) would be nice

AA's to increase reliability of possumand some to reduce re-use timer

{not a huge fan of aa's btw, just broke 2k so have a loooong way to catch up, extend the ~2500 for aa bonus to 3500 plz}

AA Pet FD.

Increase focused paragon

Turn Ferocity into an aura

Give our pets an activated ability, Terrifying Stare, pet stops dps, but is able to mez-park a single mob (add like ~3% chance of mob fleeing (fear) instead to make it intersting? I know devs like to not make things too predictable)

Love the above mentioned door-jam idea.

Raising AC softap - we are supposed to take turns tanking with our warder... thats what the class description says, and we're getting back to that slowly.

Make emphatic always overwrite BV (or stack with)




------------------------------------------------------other stuff ------------------------------------------
Not class specific but a merc-olier, buy several mercs but only use 1 at a given time.

Mages need a pet version of this so thay can have 4 pets up n buffed but can switch between them easily... requires a suitable timer to ensure that it isnt abused like combat timer or something.

Some way of easily changing sets of armour  a wardrobe-olier :)

Only require 2 fellowship members to make a camp fire

Make tribute stop running if you are idle (obviously forgot to turn it off (doh! doh!))



Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Sabbu on January 18, 2011, 01:09:33 PM
Quote from: Karve on January 18, 2011, 12:46:17 PM

Make tribute stop running if you are idle (obviously forgot to turn it off (doh! doh!))


i LOVE this idea, i don't usually use trib because ill forget to turn it off when I'm done.  It has been done with power sources so i know it can be done.

I'm a bit confused tho.  why would you need pet FD if he can fade?  cool factor? or am i missing something.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Mordeb42 on January 18, 2011, 01:38:57 PM
Quote from: Sabbu on January 18, 2011, 01:09:33 PM
Quote from: Karve on January 18, 2011, 12:46:17 PM

Make tribute stop running if you are idle (obviously forgot to turn it off (doh! doh!))


i LOVE this idea, i don't usually use trib because ill forget to turn it off when I'm done.  It has been done with power sources so i know it can be done.
I think this should be the default behavior not AA.  Tribute should only countdown if ooc counter is counting down or combat is active..

I do think all classes should get a general AA to reduce tribute cost by 5%/10%/15% per rank.  This isn't overpowering.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Mordeb42 on January 18, 2011, 01:48:48 PM
Quote from: Orbus1 on January 15, 2011, 07:06:56 PM
4.  Being able to summon pet gear or our pet being created with gear. I think it would also be awesome to be able to see it, an armored white wolf       would look kick butt. Or give us ranks to our pets, Rk I is basic, Rk II has armor, Rk III has armor and weapons when summoned. No procs on the weapons that are summoned either, I don't want to have to deal with my pet having a fire/ice or whatever proc and I can't use him like on the snake in Masked Invaders.

I think that is a great way to handle pet gear.  I agree Rnk2 should focus on armor and let Rnk3 add offensive items such as haste mask/belt.  Leave weapons in the domain of mages is fine with me. 

If the devs have difficulty with summoning the pets with gear, would it be ok for rnk2 and 3 to have recourse effects that summon bags of armor?

In order to keep mages pacified, I think the stuff we summon should be 1-2 expansions of power behind mage summoned gear.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Karve on January 18, 2011, 03:16:52 PM
Quote from: Mordeb42 on January 18, 2011, 01:48:48 PM
Quote from: Orbus1 on January 15, 2011, 07:06:56 PM
4.  Being able to summon pet gear or our pet being created with gear. I think it would also be awesome to be able to see it, an armored white wolf       would look kick butt. Or give us ranks to our pets, Rk I is basic, Rk II has armor, Rk III has armor and weapons when summoned. No procs on the weapons that are summoned either, I don't want to have to deal with my pet having a fire/ice or whatever proc and I can't use him like on the snake in Masked Invaders.

I think that is a great way to handle pet gear.  I agree Rnk2 should focus on armor and let Rnk3 add offensive items such as haste mask/belt.  Leave weapons in the domain of mages is fine with me. 

If the devs have difficulty with summoning the pets with gear, would it be ok for rnk2 and 3 to have recourse effects that summon bags of armor?

In order to keep mages pacified, I think the stuff we summon should be 1-2 expansions of power behind mage summoned gear.

This is good, but pets must always prefer new armour if you choose to give it to them. Pets should never come with weapons, so that you can still annoy the crap out of mages -  they need to feel useful :)


Tribute - should be a general enhancement to how it works, not an AA, just a make it work more sensibly approach.

Pet FD .. well, the fade is a % chance, not guaranteed. Not sure you can summon your pet when FD'd but being able to ge the pet to fd even when you are would be a huge+, it would however need to be a "emergency" aa, long re-use I guess so as not to be used for constant pet pulling.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: rhaug on January 19, 2011, 08:04:45 AM
llet the weapons just come in a a bag
make the weapons then beastpet only or so

the mages arent bottered that we dont have to beg for weapons.....
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: rhaug on January 19, 2011, 08:07:43 AM
i would like increased fd ranks also with spellcasting protection

the current fd sucks a bit too much and simply higher chances for a succesfull fd
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on January 19, 2011, 08:38:11 AM
Pet weapons are useless, with the exception of deagro proc ones which would still be useless for us except on extremely rare occasions.

Why bother asking for them?
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Blarp on January 19, 2011, 12:05:46 PM
 i dont use them not worth my time id take more time getitng htem Not fighting then i would making up for it over my 3-4 hour sittings in a camp.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Mordeb42 on January 19, 2011, 01:17:50 PM
I never seek out pet toys, it just isn't worth the time.  When I get a mage in the group or when a mage comes to loot a rot, if not too busy, I will ask for them at that time.
 
I am fine without having any pet weapons, never done any parsing on them so I don't know what kind of dps difference they make.  Our pets have a lot of proc competition as it is. 

I do think it would be neat to have some armor/belt/mask items for my pet.

Tribute.  I think across communities we all want to see it not count down when not in combat as default behavior.  But if made an AA, I would pay for it.

I still think a good general AA for tribute would either be increased tribute paid or decreased tribute used by 5/10%/15% for 3 ranks.  This isn't game changing and I think a good general AA for all classes.

I am repeating myself a little bit, just trying to clarify after reading others thoughts.  Overall, I think this community is doing very well on idea generation.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Sharrien on January 19, 2011, 02:36:49 PM
I like the ideas about redcuing the cost of using tribute, especially now that we also have trophy tribute that adds even more cost if you want to use it.  Tribute should definitely not count down while out of combat, but I would also pay AA for that if they weren't willing to give it to everyone for free.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on January 19, 2011, 03:58:35 PM
Pet weapons don't do enough dps to show up above the RNG on a 30 minute parse.  Last numbers I heard were 30dps from very long fights, and I'm sure that has changed very little since.

Deagro weapon is situationally useful for mages, when content is hard enough that they want their RS pet to gank agro faster.  For us, I don't see any real use to ask for this.

Tribute - remember, every piece of rotting gear in new zones goes for 3-6k tribute.  While prices haven't gone down on the effects, the ability to gain tribute has skyrocketed.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: kharthai on January 19, 2011, 05:26:43 PM
Not big on pet weapons here either, they do very little aside from look shiny when you use your marketplace aviak illusion.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: AbyssalMage on January 19, 2011, 06:47:39 PM
Quote from: Khauruk on January 19, 2011, 03:58:35 PM
Pet weapons don't do enough dps to show up above the RNG on a 30 minute parse.  Last numbers I heard were 30dps from very long fights, and I'm sure that has changed very little since.

Deagro weapon is situationally useful for mages, when content is hard enough that they want their RS pet to gank agro faster.  For us, I don't see any real use to ask for this.

Tribute - remember, every piece of rotting gear in new zones goes for 3-6k tribute.  While prices haven't gone down on the effects, the ability to gain tribute has skyrocketed.

This may be true but I know at one time our DPS was calculated w/our pets using them (OoW/DoN I think is when I remember reading this). Mabye as a community we can get pet weapons boosted, in the range of 100 DPS, so that the RNG isn't such a HUGE factor. After all... Mage, BST, and Necro use them. But then again, I think the only class that uses them religously is Mage because they can summon them.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: bradam on January 19, 2011, 07:21:41 PM
I never could figure out how a wolf uses his bite as a primary weapon.. but putting a mage summoned muzzle on him makes him bite faster   :roll:

Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Orbus1 on January 20, 2011, 12:24:54 AM
I agree on the weapon hunt, I never look for them or waste my time hunting up a mage. Thats why I suggest Rk III he is summoned with them, and I agree to the comment that if he is given weapons/armor of higher quality they overwrite what he has similar to now.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Blarp on January 20, 2011, 01:47:19 PM
well maybe we need AA Pet Armor Summon  No weapons just other slots for HP/haste ac so on.  and make it no drop!! i dont want to be pet armor whores.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Hzath on January 20, 2011, 02:18:59 PM
You have to remember when asking for summoned pet weapons/armor that if we have the ability to summon it ourselves then our pets are going to be balanced around always having it, so in the end all you're really asking for is a hassle.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Karve on January 20, 2011, 02:29:12 PM
Quote from: Hzath on January 20, 2011, 02:18:59 PM
You have to remember when asking for summoned pet weapons/armor that if we have the ability to summon it ourselves then our pets are going to be balanced around always having it, so in the end all you're really asking for is a hassle.

Totally agree, and stepping this hard on mage toes won't go down well at all. Currently I think we got a hell of a long way on gettnig pets re-balanced for HoT, I think we need to say we're happy somewhere along the line.

Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on January 20, 2011, 02:31:46 PM
Quote from: Hzath on January 20, 2011, 02:18:59 PM
so in the end all you're really asking for is a hassle.

This.

Am I the only one who expects to get laughed at by devs when we ask for this?

And our pets tank pretty damn well atm without armor...very similar to mage air pet if I recall from beta parses.  This makes me guess that we actually have superior pet mitigation to theirs once our pet does have the armor (minus the extra stuns from air pet, which are truly powerful).

As long as pets keep being tuned similar to the current situation, in relation to content, I'm plenty happy.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Blarp on January 20, 2011, 05:35:34 PM
I dont want pet armor! not what i ment by that popst, kidding me i hate buffing bunnytard( warder) let alone getting it armor!!! the only thing i would liek to see is this.


Warder Cast gets pet haste/Proc ( both spells) casted on it when it pops make pet cost liek 7k mana Im ok witht hat as we wouldent have to mem 3 spells just 1 lol!

thats a wish list tho, for Purely lazyness.


Id like to See is that HoT did not bunny us, as in we get NOthing/ no upgrades in the next xpack, i want to see us get upgraded PP and Chem strike them 2 id be happy with, also  PP works( XX%) from getting casted  on.

1st of all i want PP fixed to the 70% success rate Dev's claim it's at i have sat there for 200 try's in a row and it's 50% not 70!!!  we need to get the little thigns worked out 1st really.

Edited for profanity.  Keep that in the rant forum please.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on January 20, 2011, 05:38:24 PM
If you have a parse of that test, I'd love to take a look and forward it to developers so they can track down bugs.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: AbyssalMage on January 20, 2011, 08:31:17 PM
Quote from: Hzath on January 20, 2011, 02:18:59 PM
You have to remember when asking for summoned pet weapons/armor that if we have the ability to summon it ourselves then our pets are going to be balanced around always having it, so in the end all you're really asking for is a hassle.

Our pets are already balanced around this. That is what my earlier post was saying (reguarding weapons) but it also holds true to armour. Again this may have changed as I don't think many of the developers that were around during OoW/DoN are still around (or in the same position). The only way to see where our pets are is parsing, and other than Beta, I don't think there are very many active posters here who parse after release/patches. If our warder falls in the RNG w/out armour (compared to w/armour) then the argument is moot about having them summoned w/gear.

With all the mod 2's slowly creaping their way onto pet gear, I would venture to say that pets are still being balanced around pet gear though (weapons, armour, and jewlery).

-Not really sure how beneficial reducing the cost of tribute would be. It's so easy to build up. Now an AA (or fix) so that it doesn't run in non-combat zones (GL, GH, PoK, PoT, or any other zone I am forgetting) would be very nice and appreciated.

-Sounds like Playing Opossum needs to be parsed on attempt/success. I'm sure someone(multiple people?) can head to a T4 zone, target a "nice" red con mob, find a safe place(away from the mob), and spam opposum a couple hundred times (what would be a good sample size?) to see what the % really is to report back to dev's.

-***New*** defensive AA/spell that has a chance to proc a pet every time we are hit. I really like this spell line that other classes (Cleric, Pally, Mage) have. I would love to have one also. Short duration (2 minutes unfocused), 30 charges, and 200(or 400) mod to trigger would be awsome.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: kharthai on January 20, 2011, 08:39:46 PM
Possum is 80% success not 70%, and more inclined to believe it's the RNG unless you have some logs of it.  Have failed 4x in a row before etc, but stuff like that'll happen, you tend to never notice when you succeed 4 times in a row :p

(Not that I'm not for a % increase, 'cause I am!)
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Blarp on January 20, 2011, 10:28:13 PM
i have it somewhere in my 40 gig's of parse's yes lol i'll set up  a keybord to FD while im in class's one day to see if we can get like a  1,00 FD rate.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Ranar on January 20, 2011, 11:57:15 PM
I wouldnt worry about asking for a way to get pet gear.. our pets are balanced around our buffs , and mage pets balanced around there summon geared... i really doubt they would allow us to be able to acquire both and mages just one... also like said eariler if we are able to get gear our pets would be balanced around it ..

also if doing a parse to check on possum success rate make sure it is a ton of tries before a dev would look at it .... if its anything like melee parses devs dont really focus on parses less then 12 hours long .... so ya looking at about 1500 FD clicks to get  12 hours worth .... thats the only way to get thru the RNG is supper long parses.

I'm hoping some of the aa's that didnt get upgraded in HoT get some upgrades next time .. (forget name) but focus of allium (maybe) .. the aa that imporves our dots to land , BA , GBA, chem strike , bite of asp , and such ... also keep improving warders sacrifice (really like that aa) ,,

would like to see some extended aa's added to bestial vivsection, nature's fury , and protection spirits..

some spellguard added to possum .. a chance to to stay FD be nice .. a skunk casting rabies in noobie yards can break our FD ...

this is for all classes .. would like to see hot button macro's go from 5 lines to 7 or so .. now this might not be possible with the old code , but maybe not too hard. would help to link some more stuff ...

BV moved to the short buff window... we can already link it with BA so surly they not against linking it with EF .. where the buff should be imo..

we almost got it going in beta but ran out of time.. pact of wurine needs to be split into 2 buffs .. mod's on one and illusion/runspeed on 2nd buff...

focused paragon needs looked at .. i think the values are way short of where it should be , also would like the cast time go back to 1 sec like the first rank was .. we have seen very small increases to it over the years..

SV needs some sort of change to it ... making it a caster option would be nice for the raid peep.. ..brells for tanks. stalker for melee, and sv for casters.. even if all it has is a +mana +hps ... i'd be happy .. +crit mod be super sweet , but might not happen




Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on January 21, 2011, 12:38:48 AM
Quote from: Ranar on January 20, 2011, 11:57:15 PM
focus of allium (maybe)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allium
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Ranar on January 21, 2011, 04:23:48 AM
well i messed that one up . lol...... confused an old focus spell and no idea where that  other word came out of.... 

was meaning force of animus... )
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Zunar on January 21, 2011, 07:41:03 AM
Quote from: Zunar on January 16, 2011, 12:04:56 PM
It could be nice if our poison and disease dot spells would be combined into one spell, that triggers both, like Kron's triggers several nukes.
Also I'd like to see those dot spells half their current duration and double the damage.
Quote from: Blarp on January 16, 2011, 01:49:53 PM
that will never happen  but it be nice thats for sure but it cut our dps, they are insta cast and with tonic's/ ench aura( or mana flair) u dont get the proc for both.
Our disease DoT spell doesn't trigger chanter mana aura damage/potion proc anyways as it is (it has no nuke like poison dot, only damage/tick), so this would be nice to save one spell gem for something else, like fero :)
That said though, they need to change it so our DoT spell would land better (either in the spell directly or more ranks of focus of animus AA), because tieing up disease into poison, and then have it resisted alot would suck, and end up draining mana for low dps return.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Blarp on January 21, 2011, 01:47:29 PM
One thing id love is being abul to Stack Glyph's to say have 10 of each it's not game braking. i keep 30 aa's banked any ways.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Zunar on January 21, 2011, 06:06:34 PM
One thing that came to my mind...
It'd be nice to be able to see what items the warder is currently wearing.
Maybe if the pet window could be added an inventory screen link button or something, that would bring up a window that displayed their currently worn items in another window, because I think the pet window would be too small for that info.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on January 21, 2011, 06:09:02 PM
Quote from: Zunar on January 21, 2011, 06:06:34 PM
One thing that came to my mind...
It'd be nice to be able to see what items the warder is currently wearing.
Maybe if the pet window could be added an inventory screen link button or something, that would bring up a window that displayed their currently worn items in another window, because I think the pet window would be too small for that info.

It's been asked for by mages and some beastlords for years.  Not likely to happen.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Zunar on January 21, 2011, 07:16:10 PM
Quote from: Khauruk on January 21, 2011, 06:09:02 PM
Quote from: Zunar on January 21, 2011, 06:06:34 PM
One thing that came to my mind...
It'd be nice to be able to see what items the warder is currently wearing.
Maybe if the pet window could be added an inventory screen link button or something, that would bring up a window that displayed their currently worn items in another window, because I think the pet window would be too small for that info.

It's been asked for by mages and some beastlords for years.  Not likely to happen.

Shame.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Mazame on January 21, 2011, 07:59:02 PM
Quote from: Khauruk on January 21, 2011, 12:38:48 AM
Quote from: Ranar on January 20, 2011, 11:57:15 PM
focus of allium (maybe)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allium

I sorry to say I disagree with you aout the best being balanced to buff vs gear.. Every time  they Balanced they do it full buff / full gear on both. Thier idea is that Mages will go too others to get buff and that we will go to mages to get gear.  the problem is  mages get buffs for thier pets  just by letting the MGB land. but we as bst have to beg for gear and then often it only weapons and a mask. or we have to make a bot mage to summon a full set of gear and pass it over.  I don't know about you but that gear make a world of differance when I get in on how my pet live or dies. and you can see mages often using pets to tank and so i know they geared up  I don't often see a warder doing the tanking like a mage pet.

point being I would live to see a way for us to make pet gear even if it = to one level lower then the current mage gear because then I don't have to beg to full set  each time my pet dies.


Other then that  I happy with UF / HoT aa / spell and would like to see just upgrades to them vs  seeing new stuff come in I have a lot of button to push as is don't need more.

Edit:  fixed code.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: bradam on January 22, 2011, 04:00:28 PM
The devs have never mentioned whether or not they mage gear to balance our pets. I tend to think that they do myself tho.

I've brought up beasts needing to be able to summon thier own pet gear the last 3 beta's I've been in with no luck so far, no dev responses either way oddly.

Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: nedoirah on January 22, 2011, 07:05:11 PM
Quote from: Khauruk on January 21, 2011, 06:09:02 PM
Quote from: Zunar on January 21, 2011, 06:06:34 PM
One thing that came to my mind...
It'd be nice to be able to see what items the warder is currently wearing.
Maybe if the pet window could be added an inventory screen link button or something, that would bring up a window that displayed their currently worn items in another window, because I think the pet window would be too small for that info.

It's been asked for by mages and some beastlords for years.  Not likely to happen.

I doubt it would happen either but why not add in a command that maybe links current gear?

/pet armor
or
/pet weapon

Each command would display links to the gear worn.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Karve on January 23, 2011, 03:09:16 PM
just extend /pet report to at least list it without links even, atm I'm sitting here thinking does my pet have armour equipped? I have no clue (alcohol related) ...
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: AbyssalMage on January 23, 2011, 11:38:20 PM
Quote from: Karve on January 23, 2011, 03:09:16 PM
just extend /pet report to at least list it without links even, atm I'm sitting here thinking does my pet have armour equipped? I have no clue (alcohol related) ...

I can say mine isn't alchol related. It relates to that fact that my pet usually lives multiple sessions so after session 3-4 I forget if he has gear or not. Then again, there are times I die multiple times and I know for sure he has nothing,
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Sharrien on January 24, 2011, 03:09:04 PM
I think it's a good idea to extend /pet report to include a list of the equipment on board.  Seems like it would be a lot less work to do that than to create a new window to show equipped items.

About summoning equipment...hmmmm.  There is no doubt that summoned armor greatly increases warders' durability.  I can't say for sure if our warders were balanced either with or without summoned armor, except I believe that most of the "balancing" that involves actual playtesting (instead of numerical increases on spreadsheets) is done by beta testers and if they didn't report if their warders had armor then it could skew results.  I'm probably biased since I have a mage box on a second account that I play regularly, but I don't think it makes sense for beastlords to summon equipment, at least from a role-playing perspective.  It would make more sense to have an ability to craft leather armor using some pelts as reagents than to summon plate armor.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on January 24, 2011, 04:32:34 PM
Balancing is done solely by developers.  Beta testers parse to see if the pets are acting as expected, and offer some feedback on them, hoping to stimulate a conversation and have our needs met.  This last beta, pets weren't put into a semi-final state until very late in the game.  Given the constraints of test dummies (low attack, avoidance, etc), these parses may hurt us as they offer a rosier-than-real view of pet abilities.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: bradam on January 26, 2011, 04:28:14 PM
Dev's had mentioned possibly doing a /pet report to show gear but I suppose that kinda faded away  =/

One aa idea I was pondering was pet finsihing blow.  Maybe tie that into taste of blood somehow?
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Mordeb42 on January 26, 2011, 06:24:45 PM
Quote from: bradam on January 26, 2011, 04:28:14 PM
One aa idea I was pondering was pet finsihing blow.  Maybe tie that into taste of blood somehow?
I think this is reasonable.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Sabbu on January 26, 2011, 08:45:49 PM
Quote from: Mordeb42 on January 26, 2011, 06:24:45 PM
Quote from: bradam on January 26, 2011, 04:28:14 PM
One aa idea I was pondering was pet finishing blow.  Maybe tie that into taste of blood somehow?
I think this is reasonable.

I agree, doing this would make taste of blood somewhat useful.  I don;t think it would be overpowered due to the fact that so many other classes have FB and will be fighting for the killing shot.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Blarp on January 27, 2011, 05:49:41 PM
True that Sabbu,  i still think Taste of blood should work for us and wadar tho kinda liek the zerk aa. less powerfull of coruse but targets us and warder if we get the  kill shot and make it innate. not casted.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on January 27, 2011, 09:30:03 PM
I'd much rather something along the line of Ranger's Hunter's Fury line of killshot AAs (Slot 1    Increase Melee Damage Modifier for All Skills by 42%, Slot 2    Increase Endurance when cast by 390, 8 ticks, about 45% fire rate, extendable w/ SCRM), or their Invigorated By the Hunt buff (10:   Increase Chance to Critical Hit by 198% with All Skills 11:   Increase Accuracy by 198%)....I doubt we could get something so strong, but something useful would be good...
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Krinsh on January 28, 2011, 07:55:04 AM
I still think we need a group buff of Fero and make it last as long as SE does
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on January 28, 2011, 02:44:57 PM
I agree with group fero, but I think in order to get it, we need a version that is either our-group only, or so limited via duration, mana cost, recast, whatever, that it can't be kept up on more than 2 groups.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Blarp on January 28, 2011, 02:51:28 PM
AA Group Fero
Length 30 min Base
Gives us Current Single target fero
Reuse 10 min
AA cost 15 ( WORTH IT)
MGBabul: YES!!

Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on January 28, 2011, 02:52:13 PM
Good luck convincing the devs.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Blarp on January 28, 2011, 03:20:17 PM
 I know right ill do what i can at fan fair, and  we need to try and have a mastyer copy so to speek of the MOST wanted thigns for the new xpack for us  soon fan fair is most likey to late, but i can do what i can there with that same list as well.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: kharthai on January 28, 2011, 03:53:55 PM
Don't really see much hope in a ferocity boost.  From 85 to 90 it went down in mana cost, added third attack mod, doubled in duration, quartered in recast time.. I mean, it's had a lot of work, and fairly recently.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Ranar on January 28, 2011, 04:28:51 PM
i doubt we ever see grp fero .... rangers been asking for along time for grp feathers/quills, and that buff is mainly just ac boost..... in reguards to fero we might be able to get/ask for duration entensions or reduce the recast timer ... think that be reasonable and possibly even granted ... just my 2 coppers worth...
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: bradam on January 28, 2011, 04:33:47 PM
make it an aura, then it'd be group only  =)

Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on January 28, 2011, 05:38:42 PM
I think now that it is usable, we have a shot at an aura or non-tgb'able group version anyways.

I also think/hope that many buffs will be consolidated this 'time round.  Devs weren't against the idea last beta, they didn't have enough time to explore conflicts that could result from it.  One of the devs, Aristo, I think, requested a list of ones that could be consolidated (esp. self buffs).  In June/July when we see alpha spells starting to hit spells.txt, I think this trend will be apparent.  My ranger w/ normal group/self buffs w/ minimal clickies and no familiar is sits at about 25 buffs....add on swarm of bees DS and spire, and that's 27/30 from just me.  Getting ridiculous, and the devs know it.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Katlipso on January 28, 2011, 08:15:47 PM
i think we are all daydreaming if you think they will  do anything benifical with playing possum ..  most hate it anyways  that we have it .. i for one  would rather them change out beastial align to two buffs .. one the illusion an one the effects of it ..  same with the GBA . i know shamans hate how theirs works as well .. as wish it was in two parts .. . for me i would love to see Para actually helping out with end .. yeah yeah i know respite  frankly i think thats a worthless aa but thats just me ..  more ranks of that would rock . i would love to see a group fero that way you can mgb it once  an then be done with it . but i doubt that will happen .. they gave us a nice one that with max ext last 23 mins . an refresh is maybe 30 secs ? could be a min but 'm thinking less ..  i would like them to do something with the Vah shir warders an the wolf warders .. i dunno about you guys but i get sick  of people casting shrink on me an my warder an the damn thing grows =/ dosen't shrink i dont know about the other races .. i know they need to fix the troll warder to be a gator an not a basilisk  i mean thats kinda silly .. new graphics on the vah shir one would be nice  old modle is kinda way out dated .. i know i bought this up at the ff in 2008 . when i went. as well as maybe another race to add to our ranks like a gnome  >.< .. anyways  i think i've done enuff babling  for one day
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Blarp on January 28, 2011, 09:01:16 PM
id rather have a 8-10 min Reuse 100% agro remove then our Current fd SOE all ready said NO other class's will be Given auras a few times. Group fero is our best bet or lieks ome one said make it fast recast at least.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Mordeb42 on January 28, 2011, 09:05:35 PM
My recommendation for group fero, would be for it to be a group version of our fero line from the previous expansion.

So next expansion we could get a new single target fero at say lv 95, and group fero ~lv 92 that is the group version of our level 90 fero. 

If no level increase, then drop the single target going forward and just offer the group version to replace the single target.  Using the HOT fero version as a group spell.

My preference is for a group spell line, but I have no issue with AA or aura versions as others have suggested.










Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Blarp on January 29, 2011, 04:48:46 AM
thats not bad at all.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: kharthai on January 31, 2011, 01:00:19 AM
Quote from: Katlipso on January 28, 2011, 08:15:47 PM
i would like them to do something with the Vah shir warders an the wolf warders .. i dunno about you guys but i get sick  of people casting shrink on me an my warder an the damn thing grows =/ dosen't shrink i dont know about the other races
Is all pets.

/blockspell add pet 3393 2203 21849 13838 16879 345

Will block tiny terror, donlo's dementia, all three group shrinks, and the shrink spell.  If that doesn't work, try adding ant legs and diminution.  Tiny companion and the AA (diminutive companion or whatever) version will still work.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Bumkus on January 31, 2011, 04:04:06 AM
Quote from: kharthai on January 31, 2011, 01:00:19 AM
Quote from: Katlipso on January 28, 2011, 08:15:47 PM
i would like them to do something with the Vah shir warders an the wolf warders .. i dunno about you guys but i get sick  of people casting shrink on me an my warder an the damn thing grows =/ dosen't shrink i dont know about the other races
Is all pets.

/blockspell add pet 3393 2203 21849 13838 16879 345

Will block tiny terror, donlo's dementia, all three group shrinks, and the shrink spell.  If that doesn't work, try adding ant legs and diminution.  Tiny companion and the AA (diminutive companion or whatever) version will still work.

dude that is the best thing ever.  never thought to block shrinks on pet.  thanks!
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on January 31, 2011, 05:50:41 AM
Thanks for the spell numbers.  I had a couple of the Group Shrinks, but hadn't spent the time to track down the new shaman AA one.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: nedoirah on February 01, 2011, 02:16:40 AM
Aye thanks. Now I can avoid the annoying growing issue too. Do you have to add them separately or as you have it listed?
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Mazame on February 02, 2011, 12:04:24 AM
I just copied

/blockspell add pet 3393 2203 21849 13838 16879 345

and pasted and it added then all even with the ones I already had blocked
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Tadenea on April 06, 2011, 06:48:05 PM
Over next day or two I will be trying to consolidate all information here for the dev's
so please keep those idea's coming

Currently Spell Idea's only I will be getting information for
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on April 06, 2011, 07:03:37 PM
I'll do that for you, Tad.

Any last minute suggestions people, pls post here.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Tadenea on April 06, 2011, 09:31:55 PM
Thanks Khauruk
They gave us no deadlines just sometime in next few weeks
you can post consolidated info here is fine or in first post and I will just take what you have there and copy it over to where all info is stored for Dev viewing pleasure
Also don't forget you have some info on replies on eqforums beastlord forums
(Currently Spell Data only)
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on April 06, 2011, 09:57:52 PM
Aye.  I'll post it here and PM you when I do.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Blarp on April 07, 2011, 01:24:23 AM
Edit:

This is not a thread for bugfixes that are being fixed on Tuesday anyways.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Hzath on April 07, 2011, 02:35:02 AM
My topics for spells are:

Kron's - Make this a pure nuke.  I've posted it before, but remove the kron's maelstrom gaze (1 tick doom effect) and replace it with kron's maelstrom chance so that the fourth nuke fires instantly and there are no stacking issues and all damage is instant.  The alternative is increase all nukes by 1/3 and remove the doom/4th random nuke all together.

Spiritual V____ line - It needs something to make is favored by portion of classes in some situations.  Ideally my wish would be add something like 1/2/3 spell/dot crit chance across the ranks so casters and possible hybrids would choose this over brells and strength.

Neivr's Aggression/Protection - These never really got tuned in beta.  They're a good idea to have a type of stances so the warder can be more offensive or defensive focused while sacrificing the other.  Currently there's almost no different when using either spell.  It's a good idea if some time can be put into making them more effective.

Yowl at the Moon - Pipe dream request of .5s cast time.  It's a dps loss to cast when burning, rangers made a similar argument when they received FSoA to get a cast time reduction during beta.  This would be huge to have all our tools available during a burn.  Ideally I would say leave the Feralgia line 1.5 cast time so that similar to rangers our simple spell (yowl/focused tempest of arrows) gets a quick .5s cast while the potentially more effective versions (feralgia/tempest/fusillade of arrows) remain 1.5s cast time.

Spectral Rampart - The duration is too short.  The recast being (almost) double that of dragonscale guard is balance enough to warrant the .5s cast time.  The duration doesn't need to be 3% of its predecessor's as well.

Growl of the _____ - The passive healing gained from this has dropped to an almost negligible level.  The original version healed for 150/tick during the DoN expansion at level 70, the current version heals for 387/tick at rank 3.  Player hp values and mob dps values have skyrocketed well beyond the healing this provides. I would like to see the current version somewhere around 800-1000/tick.  We're frail, on raids the passive healing could really help push our survivability closer to other melee dps classes.

Dots need better resists mods, mostly our disease dot.  I don't think I've landed it 10 times all expansion on a raid mob.

Fix Empathic Fury.  Make it not target or require a pet to be alive to use it.  Make it so we can't waste it if another disc is running. Make it behave EXACTLY like bestial vivisection does currently.  I sent a pm on what needs to be done to Aristo months ago but I'll send it to you if it isn't obvious from the spell data.

NEW IDEAS

A frozen venin/kron's maelstrom type spell for DoTs.  Something like a .5s cast that casts both our poison and disease dot simultaneously, or a 1.5s spell that casts slow+both dots at once at the cost of decreased mana efficiency.


Pet or pet+self only listlessness (defensive proc slow) type spell

Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Karve on April 09, 2011, 08:59:27 AM
Give SV a 7% chance to twincast which stacks with all existing twincast lines, and I have a feeling casters would seriously love it.

I put 7 just to hopefully see some returns on it taking the available stacked values to 10 or so.


Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: bradam on April 09, 2011, 02:10:28 PM
Could always go some kinda heal twincast thing on SV, I dont think anyone has any spells for that yet.

Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Ranar on April 10, 2011, 05:54:55 AM
aye .. i think some kind of caster mod on our SV line is main thing i like to see done .... it would fit in nicely with 3 choices .. ranger's for attk .. pally's for Hps.. and our for the casters's ..

Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on April 10, 2011, 09:18:43 PM
Quote from: Karve on April 09, 2011, 08:59:27 AM
Give SV a 7% chance to twincast which stacks with all existing twincast lines, and I have a feeling casters would seriously love it.
Twincast for nukes wouldn't stack w/ their buffs or enc aura, so not that great an option.  It also wouldn't affect DoTs,

[/quote]
Quote from: bradam on April 09, 2011, 02:10:28 PM
Could always go some kinda heal twincast thing on SV, I dont think anyone has any spells for that yet.

Healing twincast would work nicely though to add a healer-centric line on the spell.  That is in the request list now.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on April 10, 2011, 09:20:17 PM
Key points with spells from the last expansion.  Details are listed below in the "state of current spellbook" section.
*Bestial Vivisection - ***NEEDS*** to go to short-buff window.  One of our top requests this go-'round.
*Spiritual Valor - needs huge reenvisioning to make it worth upgrading.  Requested target niche - buff for casters.  One of our top requests this go-'round
*Wilaps - needs a huge re-envisionment.
*Neivr's Aggression/Protection - needs massaging, as they're just very lackluster.
*Focus of Emiq - needs duration increase.
*DoTs - need re-envisioning.  Better resist checks, decreased duration with higher damage/tick.  Nuke portion on disease dot.
*Spectral Rampart - needs duration boost.
*spirit of Kron - needs dps boost, or to be broken into a dps line and a stun line of procs.
*Growl of the Tiger - discontinue.
*Tuzil's/Shout - sorely need cast time reduction.
*Deadlock Jaws - needs re-envisioning.  Currently useless.

New spell ideas/requested upgrades:
Group Ferocity - now that we have a useful ferocity, the aggravation needs to be reduced.  Please make a group ferocity version of the upgrade.  Even restricting it to a version which we can use only on our group would be awesome (targetgroupbuff disabled, or self-target with group autocast).  Turning this into an aura would be a great option as well.

Empathic Fury upgrade/remake - please make this a self-disc with an autocast for the pet version.  We've had the current one for 6(?) years now, it's time for an upgrade, and one that doesn't change target to our pet.

Minor Crowd Control ability - Our pets were a viable, if limited, version of crowd control for many years, and we'd like to see that return.  We'd love to see a short buff for our pet which allows it to lurch a target, which we can use in conjunction w/ our pet heals, Companion's Relocation, and pet runes to control a single add.  We know the power this ability brings, so restricting it to the same mob level as mezzes would be an appropriate restriction.

Unity-type effect for our DoTs - many beastlords would appreciate a unity effect to cast both of our DoTs for an expansion simultaneously.

Killshot Buff - something along the same lines as the Invigorated by the Hunt (ranger spell).  We have no useful killshot AA or spell, and would love to see some form of this put in (and no, Taste of Blood AA line upgrades would not suffice.)  Something like the Ranger AA line Hunter's Fury would be awesome too.

State of our current spellbook:
86
*Bestial Vivisection - awesome, we love it.  This really needs to go to the shortbuff window though, as it makes Empathic Fury and Protective Spirit very difficult to use, esp. for keyboard-based players!
*Spinechiller Blood - Normal DoT problems.  Even with our resist reduction AA (Focus of Animus), resists are a pain in the butt.  Duration is too long - please amp up the damage and make this a 3-tick dot.
*Respite - awesome!
*Neiver's Protection/Aggression - good ideas, but they are simply too small for many of us to use it.  A bit of a boost would be appreciated.
*Salve of Sevna - last years changes to the casting times were very nice.
*Focus of Emiq - Please continue making this a copy of shaman focus.  The short timer serves more to irritate people we buff rather than make them seek out shaman focus instead, as it overwrites their sham version.  Please increase the base duration to between 45 minutes and matching shaman focus (the duration is not why people seek Unity - it's all the other wonderful effects).
87
*Wilap's Mending - useless spell line.  We don't need so many pet heals - Salve line and AAs are all most use.  Combining Wilap's and the Promised heal line into one would be a good choice though - decrease the cast time to 1/2 or 1/4 second (matching Promised), and give the same large wear off effect, a bit more mana efficiency and a bit larger HoT, adn that's a spell we might use.  As it stands, many beastlords never even buy the spell, much less use it.
*Shiverback Endemic - suffers from all the issues that disease dots always have (see above w/ Spinechiller Blood, but amplify the problems w/ resists/duration).  Lack of nuke portion means it doesn't trigger tonics or mana reiteration line of buff.  Make this a 3-tick DoT with substantial resist check and we might use it.
*Spiritual Valor - One of the sorest points for us in our spell lineup.  Still a useless spell 99% of the time which nobody asks for and many players don't even know exists.  Please make this have caster-specific effects on it, so that we have a nice breakdown of Brell's for tanks, Stalker for melee and SV for casters.  A small addition to DD/DoT crit chance or crit size (even on the order of 2%) would give it the edge to be requested by other classes.  A small boost to twinheal chance (1/2/2%) would be plenty to be desirable for healers.
*Sha's Reprisal - wonderful addition, use it constantly!
*Jorra's Mending - Nice changes, please keep them up.  We would love to see a reduction in cast time to 1 second though.
*Flurry of Claws - we're a bit puzzled by this addition, but some use it regularly.  Nice for farming low con mobs, but never sees any use in most groups/raids.
88
*Spirit of Averc - we love the pet boosts last expansion.  Please keep the same relative strength for this one!
*Spectral Rampart - Cast time is great, and generally we think worth the reduction in hits blocked.  Please please please(!) boost the duration though!  A 4 or 5 minute base duration would make us overjoyed with this spell.
*Sarsez' Bite - good as it stands
*Promised Wardmending - see comments for Wilap's Mending above.  As it exists currently this receives very little use.
*Nature's Fury - awesome!
*Incomparable Velocity - great
*Bolstering Warder - Some mechanism to let us audiotrigger when this fades off our pet would be amazing, but otherwise the spell is useful as it stands. We'd love to sacrifice some efficiency for heal size though, as it is useful mainly when soloing.
89
*Spiritual Enhancement - awesome boost.
*Spirit of Kron - the actual dps from the proc is still very tiny and we'd love to see the size of each proc boosted considerably.  That said, we like it.  Please remember to switch up the resist check this time around - depending on content and fights like the Masked Invaders raid, Fire would be a good thing to see cycled back around.  We haven't had a Fire resist check pet proc since Prophecy of Ro.
*Growl of the Tiger - a useless spell line with the presence of Tuzil's Feralgia.  Please discontinue.
*Glacial Roar - we're still puzzled by the inclusion of this last year, but it's nice in niche content.
*Glacial Lance - the boost last year was very nice.
*Frozen Venin - we still love this.
90
*Tuzil's Feralgia - we love it!  The Tuzil's Growl needs a good bit larger HP boost and HP regen portion though! It has grown very little since the Depths of Darhollow creation of the Growl line of spells.  Please reduce cast time!  It's too long for anything but sustained dps - a reduction to 0.75 or 0.5sec cast time would be perfect!
*Spellbreaker's Rampart - limited utility given the generalist nature of our other pet rune spells.
*Shout at the Moon - We love it, but it needs a cast time reduction to 0.75 or 0.5 seconds to be useful when we are burning at all.
*Rush - upgrade as normal pls.
*Kron's Maelstrom - we love it.  Stacking issues currently suck, but we'll see what happens with the next patch to Live.
*Deadlock Jaws - Discontinue or drastically alter.  It never gets used, and a small increase on the DoT portion each year doesn't make it any more interesting.  If this had no DoT and was a 20 minute spell (no counters) we'd love it.  With maximum 2 hits, 1100 mana cost and no controllability, it sees no use.  Changing this to work like a pet-procced Listlessness would be reasonable also - pet proc for a 25% slow, and we still have to cast to get a full slow on the mob.
*Callous Ferocity - awesome upgrade, please continue.  The recast timer is tres irritating, but far less than prior.  Please boost duration to 15 or 18 minute base, so we can buff people just before an event starts, and not need to rebuff mid-event.


Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Tadenea on April 10, 2011, 10:41:37 PM
it has been passed on, thanks if any updates let me know
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on April 10, 2011, 10:42:31 PM
I will do.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Hzath on April 11, 2011, 12:06:44 AM
I like the healing twincast idea for SV
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Sikkem on April 11, 2011, 03:46:35 AM
Quote from: Hzath on April 11, 2011, 12:06:44 AM
I like the healing twincast idea for SV

Nice writeup.

Do clerics still use Yaulp? because if they do SV blocks it so clerics might prefer to still not have it as a buff.

Any word on that extra bonus AA that was mentioned last beta also?
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on April 11, 2011, 03:55:12 AM
Quote from: Sikkem on April 11, 2011, 03:46:35 AM
Quote from: Hzath on April 11, 2011, 12:06:44 AM
I like the healing twincast idea for SV
Do clerics still use Yaulp? because if they do SV blocks it so clerics might prefer to still not have it as a buff.

Any word on that extra bonus AA that was mentioned last beta also?

Thanks.

If we dump the attack off of SV, then the stacking problem with Yaulp is gone.

AAs - the only one they really mentioned was a potential for a 4th spire, and no....no mention in a few months that I've come across.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: bradam on April 11, 2011, 03:24:36 PM
Would be a bit of a nich spell but I'd love to see a AE slow to go with the other AE's we got.  Useless in raids but I'm perma grouped with an enchanter and ae slow would be wonderous for chain pulling  =)

I forgot about yalup, I'm all for dumping the attack on SV.  If I wanted the attack stuff I'd harass a ranger.

Wouldn't hurt to slap a summon pet gear spell on there, I know its prolly a lost cause but never hurts to ask...


And just as a minor convience I'd like the Grow spell.  I'm always getting chewed for group shrinking someone that didn't want to be shrunk.   Plus petamorph wand - brownie would be funny large sized   :lol:

Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Ranar on April 12, 2011, 12:12:48 AM
very nice write up khauruk , and thank you for the time put in consoildating everything ..

one thing i would like to see added would be splitting the aa pact of the wurine into 2 buffs ... runspeed + illusion on 1 ... the goodies on the 2nd ...

never know this go around might be able to get it . might as well toss it in the hat .. hehe

nevermind just slipped my mind that tad needs only spell info ..... maybe we can go ahead and start some aa list going for future reference..
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on April 12, 2011, 01:16:31 AM
Aye, I'll be asking for that once the time for AA input rolls around.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Zunar on April 12, 2011, 09:06:48 PM
Quote from: Khauruk on April 10, 2011, 09:20:17 PM
*Deadlock Jaws - Discontinue or drastically alter.  It never gets used, and a small increase on the DoT portion each year doesn't make it any more interesting.  If this had no DoT and was a 20 minute spell (no counters) we'd love it.  With maximum 2 hits, 1100 mana cost and no controllability, it sees no use.  Changing this to work like a pet-procced Listlessness would be reasonable also - pet proc for a 25% slow, and we still have to cast to get a full slow on the mob.
This could proc the AE slow mentioned about already, to make this spell situationally useful imo
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Nadric on April 13, 2011, 04:32:23 AM
Hey everyone this is my first post in the forums. Not sure if this is the right time or place to bring this up but I'd really like to get my original gator model back for my troll beastlord. If the original is still having issues could we atleast get something gatorish, maybe a PoN gator model or this guy, http://eq2images.station.sony.com/000/001/118/840.jpg ? Be nice if he got a fix in the next expansion  :-D .
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Zunar on April 13, 2011, 04:42:21 PM
upgraded cat model for vah shirs plzor
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Blarp on April 13, 2011, 05:35:33 PM
no more new features make everything we have WORk 100% right!!!

Edited: profanity....please don't.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Vatrulle on April 13, 2011, 08:12:12 PM
AAs - Flurry & Feign Death improvements
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Blarp on April 14, 2011, 07:52:43 AM
God people need to stop asking for flurry! it is worthless for us with our Lower dubble atk and tripple atk.

Dubble attack 100
Tripple atkack  120

for flurry to even be useful we need to DUBBLE both them numbers and we know thats not going to happen atm, so  more like REAL dubble atk will do us TONS more good then any flurry aa's.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on April 14, 2011, 01:30:21 PM
We don't have much room to grow on double attack anymore - we're around 85% or so now.  Camikazi posted numbers a few months ago.  Our triple attack, yes, is pretty lame.  Having some innate flurry works nicely with bard flurry mods though.  Very nicely.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: bradam on April 14, 2011, 07:11:12 PM
Quote from: Zunar on April 12, 2011, 09:06:48 PM
Quote from: Khauruk on April 10, 2011, 09:20:17 PM
*Deadlock Jaws - Discontinue or drastically alter.  It never gets used, and a small increase on the DoT portion each year doesn't make it any more interesting.  If this had no DoT and was a 20 minute spell (no counters) we'd love it.  With maximum 2 hits, 1100 mana cost and no controllability, it sees no use.  Changing this to work like a pet-procced Listlessness would be reasonable also - pet proc for a 25% slow, and we still have to cast to get a full slow on the mob.
This could proc the AE slow mentioned about already, to make this spell situationally useful imo

Only IF.. and IF they got rid of the dot.  Breaking mezzes makes any such spell completely useless imo.   

Also if warder proc'd it they would probably stick charges on it rendering it more or less useful anyways.

Even then I'd still rather have a AE slow spell that I cast myself as its far too unreliable leaving it up to the warder.     
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: nedoirah on April 14, 2011, 11:05:45 PM
I agree with you Bradam. An AE slow on the warder is worse than useless it can be very detrimental to our fragile pet. They might trgger agro they can't handle or worse. Why I memmed the spell is beyond me. I never found it useful in any form. If anyone here can give me one GOOD reason why to use it I might consider using it.

Flurry. It might be nice to have but our triple attack needs to improve for it to be useful.

Can someone explain to me the problem with Kron's?
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Vatrulle on April 14, 2011, 11:13:20 PM
Blarp, you must not get bards.  The improvement to our dps when having that one mod alone is huge.  We have plenty of far more useless AAs and spells.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Blarp on April 15, 2011, 07:56:33 AM
i do get bards and with bards we go off like mad i know, BUT im thinking  w/o support, we should not have to depend on other class's for an innate skill to work properly. still think we should go for dubble and tripple acttack over flurry take it slow. get 1 skill worth while b4 we have 2-3 a/s ass skillz.

Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Zunar on April 15, 2011, 05:04:20 PM
Quote from: bradam on April 14, 2011, 07:11:12 PM
Quote from: Zunar on April 12, 2011, 09:06:48 PM
Quote from: Khauruk on April 10, 2011, 09:20:17 PM
*Deadlock Jaws - Discontinue or drastically alter.  It never gets used, and a small increase on the DoT portion each year doesn't make it any more interesting.  If this had no DoT and was a 20 minute spell (no counters) we'd love it.  With maximum 2 hits, 1100 mana cost and no controllability, it sees no use.  Changing this to work like a pet-procced Listlessness would be reasonable also - pet proc for a 25% slow, and we still have to cast to get a full slow on the mob.
This could proc the AE slow mentioned about already, to make this spell situationally useful imo

Only IF.. and IF they got rid of the dot.  Breaking mezzes makes any such spell completely useless imo.   

Also if warder proc'd it they would probably stick charges on it rendering it more or less useful anyways.

Even then I'd still rather have a AE slow spell that I cast myself as its far too unreliable leaving it up to the warder.     


Heck just make it work just as it does now, but cast a mez instead of a slow then? :)
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on April 15, 2011, 05:15:21 PM
I'd rather not add mez to another class that doesn't need it.  Chanters have reason to complain w/ how much these things have been farmed around, and it really doesn't fit in for us.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: bradam on April 16, 2011, 03:26:46 PM
I dunno if a pet mez really falls in our class, but then again monks can mez heh

I'd rather see a warder complaint lurch type spell.  Dunno if thats even possible though. Me personally I'd like more swarm pet type utilites.    Like an attack of the bear spells, makes a bunch of bears pop that use a compliant lurch type effect on raid mobs so they dont get pushed all over the place. 
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Sabbu on April 16, 2011, 11:24:41 PM
I would rather have a pet root then a pet mez, its more in line with sham that has VP and it would add sime cc to us again but not be OP
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Camikazi on April 17, 2011, 04:27:27 PM
Quote from: Sabbu on April 16, 2011, 11:24:41 PM
I would rather have a pet root then a pet mez, its more in line with sham that has VP and it would add sime cc to us again but not be OP

Pet root would work about as well as Mage pet root, it would break almost as soon as it procs since pet is attacking and procs very often.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: AbyssalMage on April 17, 2011, 05:22:44 PM
Quote from: Sabbu on April 16, 2011, 11:24:41 PM
I would rather have a pet root then a pet mez, its more in line with sham that has VP and it would add sime cc to us again but not be OP

Why would you want to have pet root? Snare > Root unless your thinking about root parking (cc) then possibly, but root CC doesn't work all that well in current content as is.

AoE/PBAoE slow proc (25%, no counters, 20 minutes base duration) would be nice to replace the crap we have now. Or combine Slow/Snare with no charges seeings that they share the same spell slot on the buff list.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Zunar on April 18, 2011, 08:16:02 PM
Yeah Root from the warder I can't see how it'd be good tbh. a root cast by self would be much more useful.
But then again, I don't know if that'll ever happen.
Maybe in some limited form, but that'd probably become useless to us then.
About warder mez, I was thinking something in line with Warder Growling at the npc, making it too scared to take any action for like 6-12 seconds.
Then it could be made with limitations so we can't mez more than one mob, and not too often either /shrug
I don't know if chanters would cry about it...I'd leave that to them tbh....just throwing ideas out here :)
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Zunar on May 26, 2011, 06:26:03 AM
One idea that just came to my mind...
I found myself often enough emergency healing groupmates in the dps group when the shaman died, but our heal isn't good enough to save the group..
What would be cool is if we got a call ability, so we can call back the shaman (we can rezz them using loyalty points rez potion too anyways, but meh)
Either that, or a group heal of some kind, so we can keep the group alive until the healer returns.
Of course, this group heal shouldn't step on any toes, so it should have limitations of some kind..either a long reuse timer or added negative effects to balance it off.
I wouldn't want it to change us into a group healer, but instead it'd be a situational emergency solution.

Some ideas are maybe a 2 minute group heal over time buff that also has a 10% damage reduction to the group. They wouldn't want to rely on something like that cuz it hurts dps, but it'd be a nice save when there's no healer around for the moment..
It could be a pet proc group heal, with a longer reuse timer, so we don't get stuck in the tank groups to heal..

I think it's at the same time a dangerous idea to give bsts a group heal, so it has to be done carefully, so it doesn't change our current role, imo.
Any thoughts welcome :)
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Zunar on June 10, 2011, 06:22:24 PM
From SOE EQ forum, AA dev...
Time to think about new AA.

Yep.. it's that time again. Time for you guys to start collecting your thoughts about what you want from new AAs. I'd recommend compiling and vetting a list and submitting it as a class rather than just a random stream of PMs and such.

Some guidelines:


If an ability has a recast time shorter than 5 minutes, it's likely better served as a spell. Of course there are exceptions, but that's pretty much a guideline.
No refresh time on a spell can get any faster than 50% of its original cast time, no matter how much you want it.
Crit Chance likely is never going to be upgraded again.
Slows just aren't happening. We're not going to make them better.
"It's about time", "It's only fair", and "We've asked for it for X years" are NOT valid reasons for getting something.
Just because you ask for it, doesn't mean it's going to happen.


Oh.. and please please please.. one VERY SPECIFIC DETAIL I'd like from each class is what they'd like to see in a 4th Spire ability. I won't guarantee I'll make them, but I'd like very much to know where your collective heads are on the idea.

Elidroth Renato
-----------------------------
Doug Cronkhite
Game Designer
Sony Online Entertainment, LLC
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Zunar on June 10, 2011, 06:45:24 PM
One idea that comes to my mind, is Bolstering warder....maybe to make an activated AA that would either significantly boost this spell for a period of time, say 5 minutes tops, then with a reuse timer.
After that wears off the spell would work as normal again. It'd just make it worth something situationally for raids..

And, as already said, a new version of Bolstering warder to heal the group instead of target's target, so we could choose.

For the 4th Spire, I know we've wanted a crit chance mod (iirc) asked for already, but reading Eli's post I don't know if it'd pass....but he does state crit chance isn't going to be upgraded....I wonder if that means the passive AAs or what.
Anyways, a 4th spire to boost spell damage is still the way to go imo.
Call it beastlords called nukes or whatever :P
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Nusa on June 11, 2011, 01:28:49 PM
Quickened Focus Paragon - Reduce cast time of Focused Paragon by 10% - 5 ranks
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: kharthai on June 11, 2011, 03:37:25 PM
Anyone willing to compile a list or whatever?  I salute you if so :p

Couple AA I wouldn't mind, for the hell of it:

Sha's Guardian- 5-10 minute reuse offtank pet.  High hp, high aggro but low dps, maybe some sort of aggro proc if needed.  Should stand up to a group mob for a decent time.  My preference for model would be lion or some other animal that isn't often used, or alternatively- a race specific, different coloured version of our warder (red scaled wolf, white bear, etc).  Would be nice to help deal with the odd overpull/add or whatnot.  Would also give pet lovers something new to look at, without forcing us to use more pets to dps.. which is very unattractive in the raid game.

Cheetah Pounce- Short reuse AA that launches the beastlord forward, similar to Shadowknight Hate Step.

4th Spire- Would like some way to augment our spell damage.  

Oh, and AA slow.  Not sure it's worth requesting- however, it wouldn't have to be a "better" version, which is what Elidroth seems to frown on in his post.  Anyway.. UF we got outright rejected on the AA slow, after shaman got theirs.  Fast forward to HoT, enchanters get a brand spanking new AA slow.  I'm not sure what the deal is.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: nedoirah on June 11, 2011, 04:29:29 PM
Quote from: kharthai on June 11, 2011, 03:37:25 PM
Oh, and AA slow.  Not sure it's worth requesting- however, it wouldn't have to be a "better" version, which is what Elidroth seems to frown on in his post.  Anyway.. UF we got outright rejected on the AA slow, after shaman got theirs.  Fast forward to HoT, enchanters get a brand spanking new AA slow.  I'm not sure what the deal is.

As far as I know there are only 4 classes with the ability to slow a mob not counting stuns or other outside abilities: Bard, Beastlord, Enchanter, and Shaman. I'm only talking about the pure slow ability. The two pure caster classes (chanter and shm) both have AA slows. The hybrid casters (bard and bst) don't unless something has changed. Did bards get an AA slow? If they did then it would stand to reason we should as well. If they didn't and we do then it would stand to reason they will either want it or should get it. Just trying to add weight to us getting an AA slow.

An AA/spell I'd like to see is one that binds our warder to us like the Bond of the Wild  (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=3690)spell from LoY that gave both of us 150 hp and a few other nice little boosts for our pets and not be blocked by the other hp and other effect boosting 20-30 spells/aa out there.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Inphared on June 11, 2011, 10:29:35 PM
Quote from: nedoirah on June 11, 2011, 04:29:29 PM
Did bards get an AA slow?

Nope. Bards have had the same slow since Planes of Power.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Zunar on June 12, 2011, 08:17:19 AM
Here's an attempt to collecting all the AA ideas...I miss anything?

Edited from suggestions/info so far.
Please let me know what you think.

4th Spire
-- increase our spell damage for 2 mins, crit mod or twincast possibly.

Playing possum
-- AAs to upgrade it's effectiveness, and reducing the timer.
-- AAs to make it persist 100% through an AE/spell cast from an npc.

Bestial Alignment
-- upgrade
-- extended Bestial Alignment

Empathic Fury
-- extended Empathic Fury
-- more hastened empathic fury

Frenzy of Spirit
-- Make a rk3 that triggers on the warder as well

Flurry of Claws
-- A single target version

Gelid Claw
-- Activated proc instead of innate

Protection of the warder
-- to stack with the cleric Vie line.

Protection of Spirit discipline AAs to enhance
-- shorter reuse
-- longer duration 24 seconds

Increase beastlords AC softcap. (like armor of wisdom does)

Warder's Gift
--AAs to reduce reuse to 1 min (monks mend ability is set at 30 sec, 1min would still be half of theirs only)
--AAs to increase heal

Asp/Claw/Smash
--AAs to increase effect
--make them 30second reuse?

Chameleon Strike
--AAs to increase effect

Companion's Sacrifice
--hastened AAs to reduce Reuse

Paragon and focused paragon
--Increase power on both, especially focused paragon, which falls behind abit
--quickened focused paragon AAs, or make it insta cast

Taste of Blood
-- Rework this to trigger from self or warder, either way hitting both with the buff

AA slow
AE slow, either self or pet cast

Second Spire
--Possibly rework 2nd spire to something more useful, like making it overwrite
bolstering warder with a bigger version with procrate triple/quad for the spire duration.
As it stands now, 2nd spire is never, ever used. 20K damage isn't too hot anymore.

upgrades to the normal abilities like burst of power, double atk etc.

Third Spire
--Same here, it's worthless, so reworking this into an effect that actually matters to use is a must.
The third spire should be the most powerful one, but our current one is a lackluster...and 1st/2nd spires are even better.

Hastened Nature's Fury

---NEW stuff---

Sha's Guardian- 5-10 minute reuse offtank pet.  High hp, high aggro but low dps, maybe some sort of aggro proc if needed.  Should stand up to a group mob for a decent time.  My preference for model would be lion or some other animal that isn't often used, or alternatively- a race specific, different coloured version of our warder (red scaled wolf, white bear, etc).  Would be nice to help deal with the odd overpull/add or whatnot.  Would also give pet lovers something new to look at, without forcing us to use more pets to dps.. which is very unattractive in the raid game.

Cheetah Pounce- Short reuse AA that launches the beastlord forward, similar to Shadowknight Hate Step.

Warder's Gemination
--activated ability to make the pet proc at double rate, or double cast all procs.

New Activated AA--Pet Summon Master
1hr reuse/ instant Cast/ Does not wipe agro.  Pet can summon BST to pets location.  
Can work well when parking pet, and BST out of position due to AOE or doing quest turn in.  Etc.

Flurry ability

Pet weapons
-- A way to summon/craft our own, or buy from vendor?

Pet Armor
-- Make our warders summon clothed?
Also been suggested to rank our pet spell, and make rk1 normal, rk2 summoned with armor, and rk3 with armor and some weapons...preferably with no elemental proc.

Terrifying Stare
-- Give our pets an activated ability pet stops dps, but is able to mez-park a single mob (add like ~3% chance of mob fleeing (fear) instead to make it intersting?

defensive AA that has a chance to proc a pet every time we are hit. I really like this spell line that other classes (Cleric, Pally, Mage) have. I would love to have one also. Short duration (2 minutes unfocused), 30 charges, and 200(or 400) mod to trigger would be awsome.

Proc modifier ability - Activated, Make weapons proc every swing for a set amount of time (can be used in many ways depending on the weapon proc, deagro, heal, stun etc)

Specialized weapon AAs
AAs to boost HtH and 1hb

2hander AAs

Feel free to forward from this post or use this list maybe.. :)
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Gatash on June 12, 2011, 12:30:17 PM
Just some of my thoughts on the list compiled by Zunar:

- Protective Spirit
I would be against adding a set number of hits to this ability, but an increase in duration would be nice. With a set # of hits, the more mobs you have on you, the less time the ability would be active. I commonly use this skill with multiple pulls while I try shift some mobs onto pet, get them slowed or burn one down a bit so my life is in the lap of the gods for less time :). In these cases, imo it's much better to know you have a set amount of time to get the situation under "control".

- 2nd Spire
I seem to remember this being the only spire we had that gave parse-able returns or was 1st Spire upgraded? I have been using 2nd; can't remember where I read it on these forums so could be wrong. I haven't even bothered buying 3rd Spire, so I would def like that being upgraded :)

- Defensive AA that procs pets
Could an activated riposte modifier AA not serve a similar purpose? It's a shame things like Feral Swipe don't scale properly with players and neither would AA defensive pet procs.... at least with riposte it would scale with weapon quality. I don't like the idea of adding any more weak pets to our arsenal, I would prefer the ones we already have continue to upgrade.  

<Edit: Realised this would also increase damage mitigation (brain on a go-slow). If it is not intended only to increase dmg output and not mitigation whilst tanking, could use a modifier to either increase the chance of double riposte skill for x seconds or somehow increase the base dmg of riposte itself? Other alternative would be a high dmg DS based on porcupine spines or something but this last one again wouldn't scale.>

With the exception of the AoE slow (which I can't decide if I would like), I think the list looks good. Thanks for taking the time to compile it Zunar, not had time to read whole thread.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: kharthai on June 12, 2011, 07:36:36 PM
Protection of Spirit discipline
-- or possibly much longer timer with # hits it can soak up before fading.



Ew. No! :p
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Nusa on June 12, 2011, 07:58:41 PM
Messing with Protection of Spirit is asking for nerfage in some aspect of it....it's pretty awesome as it is! I'd much rather propose ANOTHER defensive disc of some kind.

1st spire remains valuable when the pet isn't there, because it's usable without the pet being up....otherwise, 2nd spire is the best of the bunch.

Remember, when being asked to submit AA ideas, don't include disciplines unless they're AA based, don't include regular spells, and don't include bug or non-AA wish lists, because the AA guy is more likely to look at our ideas seriously if they aren't buried in stuff that's not relevant.

Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Zunar on June 12, 2011, 09:28:51 PM
what about hastened Nature's Fury?
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Orbus1 on June 12, 2011, 10:00:58 PM
QuotePet Armor
-- Make our warders summon clothed?

The idea was to add levels here like our other spells, Rk 1 is normal, Rk 2 has armor, rk 3 has armor and weapons(with no procs, or maybe something like lifetap or some other type that won't cause any issues like cold or fire)
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: AbyssalMage on June 13, 2011, 06:59:55 PM
Quote from: Orbus1 on June 12, 2011, 10:00:58 PM
QuotePet Armor
-- Make our warders summon clothed?

The idea was to add levels here like our other spells, Rk 1 is normal, Rk 2 has armor, rk 3 has armor and weapons(with no procs, or maybe something like lifetap or some other type that won't cause any issues like cold or fire)

Focused pets come with gear, the normal summoned one doesn't. I think your suggestion would work, but in order to do so, they would have to do a major code rework and that doesn't seem likely.

Being able to summon the gear (Spell or AA) or purchase the gear off a NPC Vendor in GL, GH, and/or PoK would be the best idea. Although I like the Rk 1, 2, and 3 idea on pets and getting rid of "Pet Focus" on items. Would probably help developers and free up some memory so they don't have to create a seperate template for each focus/pet.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Nusa on June 14, 2011, 12:01:24 AM
Quote from: AbyssalMage on June 13, 2011, 06:59:55 PM
Focused pets come with gear, the normal summoned one doesn't.

That's only true for Mages, far as I know. Beastlord pets don't come with gear.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Orbus1 on June 14, 2011, 01:02:42 AM
Our warders never came with gear as far as I recall.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on June 14, 2011, 03:57:10 PM
Quote from: Nusa on June 14, 2011, 12:01:24 AM
Quote from: AbyssalMage on June 13, 2011, 06:59:55 PM
Focused pets come with gear, the normal summoned one doesn't.

That's only true for Mages, far as I know. Beastlord pets don't come with gear.

They do come with one piece of gear, a cloak w/ various mod2s and stats.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Orbus1 on June 14, 2011, 08:00:22 PM
Seriously? Where do you find information like that Khaur?
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Hzath on June 14, 2011, 08:49:56 PM
It's what Rytan did to pets when he revamped them for SoF.  I couldn't find his post about it, but there's lots of references to it on the mage forums on eqlive if you search.

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=176001&#2657433 is a recent one where it's mentioned


Back on topic here's my dream/wishlist of AAs I don't expect but would love to see

Corruption component added to Nature's Salve
Additional rank of hastened Bestial Alignment
Additional Hastened Forceful Rejuvenation
New rank of Group Bestial Alignment with 45% damage mod
Extended Protection of Spirit 1-2 extra ticks
Increased vie % on protection of the warder to 15% so it's noticeably better than the cleric spell
3rd rank of Frenzy of Spirit to make it also cast on pet (good idea)


As for the spire thing I still think a copy of druid first spire (21% spell crit chance) is the most practical and useful spire to ask for.  There are some gimmicky options that could work such as increased % chance of 4x werewolf swarms, decrease nuke recast timers, or a large MR type buff, but overall I think the spell crit % would help greatly in one of our weaker areas.

I should also note that I *think* we're the only melee class that doesn't have a defensive related spire.  I'm not saying I think we need one with protection of spirit, protection of the warder, companion's sacrifice, and warder's gift all available but it is an area that we're a bit different than others.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Ranar on June 15, 2011, 12:37:41 AM
I like all the idea's that has been put forth by others ...

only idea i can think of that i havent seen yet is an aa where warder goes into full bore offensive attk .. resulting in massive damage to NPC for short period (30 secs or up to a min) .. after the burn warder dies ... I know we dont want our pet to die , but be like a wolf sacrificing himself for the pack ... would be on a long reuse , and be more of a final push to kill boss/name ... It would have to be massive damage to be worthwhile . since we have some downtime getting another pet back up , and lose alot of sustain without warder up ... its just an idea to see what rest of yall think of something along these lines ...

I would like to see some kind of spell guard put on playing possum .. and since we dont have a defensive spire .. maybe they can rework 3rd spire to be a defensive spire for us ... since they never really fixed 3rd spire to be worth clicking yet /shrug

thanks for the work you did consilodating the list zunar ..
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Khauruk on June 15, 2011, 01:28:15 AM
Quote from: Orbus1 on June 14, 2011, 08:00:22 PM
Seriously? Where do you find information like that Khaur?

It happened in a beta a while back....maybe TBS?  Maybe TSS?  Somewhere around there.

If you poke around the forums you can probably find a link to the specific cloaks.  Devs never said what they were publicly, but I think somebody got ahold of a link from a dev while running the Lucy item collector or something, and they're in the database now.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Inphared on June 15, 2011, 04:56:15 AM
(http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6268/mgcluc5.jpg)

:-)
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Zunar on June 15, 2011, 11:43:00 AM
Here's an attempt to collecting all the AA ideas...I miss anything?

UPDATED

Edited from suggestions/info so far.
Please let me know what you think.

4th Spire
-- increase our spell damage for 2 mins, crit mod or twincast possibly.
-- It's been suggested to copy the druid First Spire of Nature (21% spell crit mod)

Playing possum
-- AAs to upgrade it's effectiveness (to maybe 95%)
-- hastened AAs (bring it down to 6sec, or atleast 12sec)
-- AAs to make it persist 100% through an AE/spell cast from an npc.

Bestial Alignment
-- upgrade
-- extended Bestial Alignment
-- more hastened Bestial Alignment

Group Bestial Alignment
-- upgrade (45% mod)

Empathic Fury
-- extended Empathic Fury
-- more hastened empathic fury

Frenzy of Spirit
-- Make a rk3 that triggers on the warder as well

Flurry of Claws
-- A single target version

Gelid Claw
-- Activated proc instead of innate

Protection of the warder
-- to stack with the cleric Vie line.
-- Increased vie % on protection of the warder to 15% so it's noticeably better than the cleric spell


Protection of Spirit discipline AAs to enhance
-- extended AAs, longer duration 24 seconds
-- more hastened AAs

Increase beastlords AC softcap. (like armor of wisdom does)

Warder's Gift
--AAs to reduce reuse to 1 min (monks mend ability is set at 30 sec, 1min would still be half of theirs only)
--AAs to increase heal

Asp/Claw/Smash
--AAs to increase effect
--make them 30second reuse?

Chameleon Strike
--AAs to increase effect

Companion's Sacrifice
--hastened AAs to reduce Reuse

Paragon and focused paragon
--Increase power on both, especially focused paragon, which falls behind abit
--quickened focused paragon AAs, or make it insta cast

Focus of Animus
-- More ranks

Taste of Blood
-- Rework this to trigger from self or warder, either way hitting both self and warder with the buff

AA slow
AE slow, either self or pet cast

Second Spire
-- 20K total damage over-time-procs isn't too hot anymore. Please upgrade/change.

upgrades to the normal abilities like burst of power, double atk etc.

Third Spire
-- Scrap this one entirely, or upgrade into a useful effect.
-- Been suggested to turn it into a defensive ability, since all other melee/hybrid classes have atleast one spire like that, but beastlords don't.

More Hastened Forceful Rejuvenation

Nature's Fury
-- Hastened AAs

Nature's Salve
-- Corruption cure component added


---NEW stuff---

Sha's Guardian- 5-10 minute reuse offtank pet.  High hp, high aggro but low dps, maybe some sort of aggro proc if needed.  Should stand up to a group mob for a decent time.  My preference for model would be lion or some other animal that isn't often used, or alternatively- a race specific, different coloured version of our warder (red scaled wolf, white bear, etc).  Would be nice to help deal with the odd overpull/add or whatnot.  Would also give pet lovers something new to look at, without forcing us to use more pets to dps.. which is very unattractive in the raid game.

Cheetah Pounce- Short reuse AA that launches the beastlord forward, similar to Shadowknight Hate Step.

Warder's Gemination
--activated ability to make the pet proc at double rate, or double cast all procs.

New Activated AA--Pet Summon Master
1hr reuse/ instant Cast/ Does not wipe agro.  Pet can summon BST to pets location.  
Can work well when parking pet, and BST out of position due to AOE or doing quest turn in.  Etc.

Flurry ability

Pet weapons
-- A way to summon/craft our own, or buy from vendor?

Pet Armor
-- Make our warders summon clothed?
Also been suggested to rank our pet spell, and make rk1 normal, rk2 summoned with armor, and rk3 with armor and some weapons...preferably with no elemental proc.

Terrifying Stare
-- Give our pets an activated ability pet stops dps, but is able to mez-park a single mob (add like ~3% chance of mob fleeing (fear) instead to make it intersting?

defensive AA that has a chance to proc a pet every time we are hit. I really like this spell line that other classes (Cleric, Pally, Mage) have. I would love to have one also. Short duration (2 minutes unfocused), 30 charges, and 200(or 400) mod to trigger would be awsome.

Proc modifier ability - Activated, Make weapons proc every swing for a set amount of time (can be used in many ways depending on the weapon proc, deagro, heal, stun etc)

Specialized weapon AAs
AAs to boost HtH and 1hb

2hander AAs
--Make it worthwhile to use a 2hander for some use

Feel free to forward from this post or use this list maybe.. :)
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: nedoirah on June 16, 2011, 12:13:42 AM
Maybe rework Taste of Blood to work like the Ranger/Paladin/Shadowknight killshot AA whatever they are called...? I see e-motes  like thrill of the hunt or overcome with remorse for the fallen. I don't know what those AA are but why can't we have something like them?
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Camikazi on June 16, 2011, 01:16:22 AM
Quote from: nedoirah on June 16, 2011, 12:13:42 AM
Maybe rework Taste of Blood to work like the Ranger/Paladin/Shadowknight killshot AA whatever they are called...? I see e-motes  like thrill of the hunt or overcome with remorse for the fallen. I don't know what those AA are but why can't we have something like them?
Those 2 specific emotes are from spells they have, Ranger being an accuracy killshot spell and pally a healing boost killshot spell. The Ranger killshot AA is a chance to  proc a 42% dmg mod plus 390 end lasts 48 sec base duration (believe SCRM will boost the time as well), SK's is a chance to proc a buff that adds around 700ac and a 70% lifetap from weapon dmg. I personally would not mind turning Taste of Blood into a copy of the Ranger AA, not guaranteed on a killshot like ToB but it would be more useful then ToB is now.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: AbyssalMage on June 16, 2011, 03:57:20 AM
Quote from: Camikazi on June 16, 2011, 01:16:22 AM
Quote from: nedoirah on June 16, 2011, 12:13:42 AM
Maybe rework Taste of Blood to work like the Ranger/Paladin/Shadowknight killshot AA whatever they are called...? I see e-motes  like thrill of the hunt or overcome with remorse for the fallen. I don't know what those AA are but why can't we have something like them?
Those 2 specific emotes are from spells they have, Ranger being an accuracy killshot spell and pally a healing boost killshot spell. The Ranger killshot AA is a chance to  proc a 42% dmg mod plus 390 end lasts 48 sec base duration (believe SCRM will boost the time as well), SK's is a chance to proc a buff that adds around 700ac and a 70% lifetap from weapon dmg. I personally would not mind turning Taste of Blood into a copy of the Ranger AA, not guaranteed on a killshot like ToB but it would be more useful then ToB is now.

The problem with Taste of Blood is that Warder is ~10-35%% of our DPS depending on your AA's/Focus. And our DPS isn't all that great (although better than its been in a long time!!!) So the chances of our Warder landing a "Kill Shot" over us or anyone else in the group is low, very very low! Thats why its been on the "to be fixed/discontinue list" on every expansion AA suggestion list sense its introduction. Its second failing is that its duration is way too short when it does go off.

There has been multiple suggestions on how to "fix" or "improve" this AA but either its (A) "working as intended" in the developers eye's or (B) they continue to not give themselves enouph time (on purpose?) for revisioning during Beta's and always assume they will have the time after launch to "fix and tweak" AA's after launch. I would wager "B" only because there are tons of problems with multiple expansions yet they refuse to fix anything older than 2 expansions old unless its Raid related (it seems unless its nerfs for "class balance", then they are more than willing to nerf something 8 expansions old. /derail and rant off).

I would love ToB to work off of us and not our Warder (and placed in our short buff window for multiple reasons), at least then it would be alot more usefull and worth the expendature of AA's. And if the recourse affected both us and Warder, even better!

So in the long winded statement....
Yes, please forward this to the developers (once again) and mabye something will happen this time  :-D
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Striffa on June 16, 2011, 04:17:07 AM
I'd Like to see third spire made into a ripo type defensive. And I would like to see a shared version of nature's fury. Even drop the  mods on it lower but a version that can be mgb'd.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Sharrien on June 16, 2011, 03:35:57 PM
"Flurry of Claws
-- A single target version"

I would rather see this improved with higher damage and more targets.  It's use is situational at best anyway, but when I can use it, I'd like to see it have a real punch.

"Nature's Salve
-- Corruption cure component added"

Yes yes yes.

Taste of Blood-
I don't know if this line is worth dev time to try to fix.  At the very least it should land on beast and warder both.  It should either remain triggered but have a better bonus (add to max dmg rather than min or additional skill atk) and longer buff time or make it passive.  My preference is that it be passive even if Blood Frenzy did not change much.

"Proc modifier ability - Activated, Make weapons proc every swing for a set amount of time (can be used in many ways depending on the weapon proc, deagro, heal, stun etc)"

I like this.

"New Activated AA--Pet Summon Master
1hr reuse/ instant Cast/ Does not wipe agro.  Pet can summon BST to pets location. 
Can work well when parking pet, and BST out of position due to AOE or doing quest turn in.  Etc."

Careful with this one.  I see the possibility here of bypassing content or using it for exploity-like things.  I think for the uses described it would be great, but I can also think of ways that it could be used that tend to make devs want to kill puppies.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Camikazi on June 17, 2011, 01:16:13 AM
Quote from: AbyssalMage on June 16, 2011, 03:57:20 AM
Quote from: Camikazi on June 16, 2011, 01:16:22 AM
Quote from: nedoirah on June 16, 2011, 12:13:42 AM
Maybe rework Taste of Blood to work like the Ranger/Paladin/Shadowknight killshot AA whatever they are called...? I see e-motes  like thrill of the hunt or overcome with remorse for the fallen. I don't know what those AA are but why can't we have something like them?
Those 2 specific emotes are from spells they have, Ranger being an accuracy killshot spell and pally a healing boost killshot spell. The Ranger killshot AA is a chance to  proc a 42% dmg mod plus 390 end lasts 48 sec base duration (believe SCRM will boost the time as well), SK's is a chance to proc a buff that adds around 700ac and a 70% lifetap from weapon dmg. I personally would not mind turning Taste of Blood into a copy of the Ranger AA, not guaranteed on a killshot like ToB but it would be more useful then ToB is now.

The problem with Taste of Blood is that Warder is ~10-35%% of our DPS depending on your AA's/Focus. And our DPS isn't all that great (although better than its been in a long time!!!) So the chances of our Warder landing a "Kill Shot" over us or anyone else in the group is low, very very low! Thats why its been on the "to be fixed/discontinue list" on every expansion AA suggestion list sense its introduction. Its second failing is that its duration is way too short when it does go off.
Third failing, if Blood Frenzy is on pet and you try to hit EF, Blood Frenzy will block it from landing :P ToB is just all kinds of bad and useless, I say copy Hunter's Fury call it Feral Fury and leave it that way.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Zunar on October 05, 2011, 06:27:39 PM
I'm not in the beta...at least not gotten the 2nd email yet.
I do still hope taste of blood would see a rework in this beta.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: Blarp on October 05, 2011, 07:24:59 PM
it would be nice, we have been asking for that for year's i also brought this up at fan fair if it cant be fixed to then to just remove/refound this worthless aa.
Title: Re: Ideas for 2011 expansion/State of the Class
Post by: nedoirah on October 06, 2011, 01:53:36 AM
Quote from: Zunar on October 05, 2011, 06:27:39 PM
I'm not in the beta...at least not gotten the 2nd email yet.
I do still hope taste of blood would see a rework in this beta.

I'm actually surprised I'm not in the Beta yet this time. I've been in every beta since SoD. This will be a first for me since applying.

Regardless of which account I might get into beta, I'll do what I can for bsts... Provided I can get a hold of a dev's ear.