Base pet stats?

[Tzuka]

I was just wondering what our warder's base stats (str, dex, etc..) and resists are without buffs.

The reason i ask is because the other day i noticed that my pet was suddenly taking minimum dmg from harm touch from mobs that were doing full amount to it before, and a friend told me its because i had higher resists and the warder always has the same resists as the owner. I wondered if this was rumor or fact.

[Tastian]

Yeah the pet will take owners resists if they are higher (which they almost always are for a bst).  Base stats for pets are kinda guessed at, but largely irrelevant.  Buffing pet with infusion or dex + proc buff is enough to max out his proc rate and adding sizeable amounts of atk give a pretty modest return in dmg that tapper off quickly.  The resists he gets from you almost always as your resists are very likely to be higher, especially if you sav/fero yourself.

[Otuol]

So he takes even your buffed resists?  I always thought it was your base resists.  How would the engine keep up with this?  I guess I can see casting the pet when you are buffed and making a check against what your resists are at the time of cast.  Does it change on the fly though when you buff yourself as well or when a bard plays resist song on you with no pet affinity?

[JillieMT]

So he takes even your buffed resists?  I always thought it was your base resists.  How would the engine keep up with this?  I guess I can see casting the pet when you are buffed and making a check against what your resists are at the time of cast.  Does it change on the fly though when you buff yourself as well or when a bard plays resist song on you with no pet affinity?

Yep :)

[Coprolith]

Its no more difficult for the game's engine to keep up with this then it is to keep up with your resists, because this is in fact exactly what happens. When a spell is cast on the pet, the game just checks that spell against your resists, instead of having to look up a different set of values for the pet. It actually saves memory; the pets resists do not have to be stored

/hugs

[Coprolith]

Its no more difficult for the game's engine to keep up with this then it is to keep up with your resists, because this is in fact exactly what happens. When a spell is cast on the pet, the game just checks that spell against your resists, instead of having to look up a different set of values for the pet. It actually saves memory; the pets resists do not have to be stored

Bad Cop! Bad, bad, bad, BAD Cop! (And Jillie is a little bit bad too  :wink: )

Looks like i have to correct myself here (should have known it was too good to be true)  :oops:

I've been trying to get a bit of a grip on the issue of spell resist rates (mainly because im not too happy about the way proc resists are calculated in my dps sheet). As part of that i've been running a few tests trying to snare my warder using my lvl65 druid. The warder in these tests is a DPoC focused SoSorsha (lvl 64 spell, warder is lvl 61).

test 1  --  Cop's MR = 115 (unbuffed). Warder unbuffed
Casts: 200
Resisted: 131
test 2  --  Cop's MR = 155 (+40 from Resist Magic). Warder unbuffed
Casts: 200
Resisted: 137
test 3  --  Cop's MR = 115 (unbuffed). Warder +40 from Resist magic
Casts: 200
Resisted: 164
test 4  --  Cop's MR = 155 (unbuffed). Warder +40 from Resist magic
Casts: 200
Resisted: 170
test 5  -- Summoned a new warder while Cop was buffed to 155. Cop's MR = 155 (+40 from Resist Magic). Warder unbuffed
Casts: 200
Resisted: 132

Its clear that buffing Cop with Resist Magic makes no difference, but buffing the warder does. The statistical variance for each of these tests is about +/- 10 resists

I've done a couple more tests varying Cops unbuffed MR between 25 and 115 (by removing gear) and going beyond 115 MR by casting different spells on the warder (Endure magic, Resist Magic and Ferocity). The following graph shows the observed resist rates (=#resists/#casts) as a function of the total MR (=Cop's unbuffed MR + mods from spells cast on the warder):



As we can see there's no change in resist rate right up to ~100 MR. Above that resist rate increases linearly with total magic resistance.

The mesage is clear i think: the warder takes the highest of your unbuffed resistance or his own resistance (~100 MR in the case of a DPoC focused SoSorsha).

And yes, i know the resist system works a bit different in PvP. So the tests above don't actually prove this conclusively. However i think the difference in the resist system between PvP and normal combat are mostly quantitative, not qualitative, especially when it comes to the question which resists the pet takes on, yours or his own. It sounds very unlikely that SOE actually wrote an entirely different code for that. But the slope of the linear increase, 1 percentpoint increase in resist rate per 2.2 MR, might very well be different in non-PvP combat.

/hugs

[a_moss_snake_001]

I noticed something like this a while ago on Vulak in ToV (yes my guild allows some responsible people to use pets there). Like many others I always presumed the warder just had whatever my resists were in a given fight (including my buff enhanced bonuses) but I noticed my pet was getting chewed up bad by the hundreds of AE's during this fight (to the point I had to /pet go away) whereas I resisted 95% of them and barely got touched.

Part of me figured "well he is lower level so he has less of a resistance modifier" but for kicks next time I got a druid to PoS the pet, a chanter to resist magic and I cast fero on him (this was back before I got Pet Affinity). Result was the pet was weathering the AE's a heck of a LOT better - I was able to keep him alive with the 9 min Mend Companion and careful use of /pet hold.

So my mistaken conclusion was that the pet had my fully buffed resists but the buffs I had applied to him added their bonuses on top of that. Thanks for clearing this up.

If I read this correctly effectively my pet has my unbuffed (gear) resists  (since they are all around 180 or above) and to give him the same resists I have then he also has to have the same spells/songs cast on him as i do. Useful knowledge.

[Bengali]

I posted this as a potential bug, and one of the devs took a look at the code and it turns out that the pet actually calls the resist function on its owner to find out if it resists a spell. This is in addition to the fact that stats are calculated with buffs and cached long before they're used in the resist check function. That also means the pet is effectively using its owner's level as well for resist checks.

I don't know why your results are different, it could be a PvP thing or something else.   But pets should resist spells based on your buffed resists (and your level, too).

[Coprolith]

Yeah B, that's what i thought when i made my first post. Having the pet call the resist function on its owner is by far the easiest way to implement this. I suppose it is possible that when they changed the way pet resists work they forgot to update the PvP section as well, or maybe it was a well-considered decision on their part to make pets behave differently in PvP.
Or maybe the resist function is called with the wrong arguments and the dev didnt notice it.

When i think about, it seems a bit weird to have the pet call the resist function on its owner. It means that potentially a lvl 65 beastlord could summon his lvl 9 warder which would then resist spells as good as his master. Maybe the dev realised the same thing when he took a look at the code and they stealth-nerfed it.

That's a lot maybes, and i'm not a particular fan of speculation (i'd look down at my feet before telling you the color of my socks  :D ) In any case, its a bit of a puzzle, and one not easily solved. I'd have to find a caster mob, preferably a wizzie, let the pet establish solid agro, then root the mob and put the pet on /hold, repeat this long enough to get the statistical variance to acceptable levels, and then repeat all of this again with different resists (I'd need to do at least 3 tests similar to tests 1 thru 3 in my parse). I'd probably need that leadership AA that tells what spell is being cast as well. I suppose we could ask the devs again, but I'm too proud to admit defeat ( :wink:  *hint hint nudge nudge*  :wink: )

/hugs

[Tastian]

I just wanted to throw this in *shrugs*...

- Increased PvP resists for necromancer and mage pets.  The beastlord pets were already very high, and did not need an increase.

that's from this thread about 5 posts down.  Would seem that in pvp pets don't just take master's resists if there was a need to adjust them.

[Sorenbro]

That's on the Pvp test server now. Do to complaining that bst pets resist root/snare a lot better then mag and nec pets do. However the main reason that are pets resist is that pvp bst buff there pets with MR and ferocity. So with that patch they made unbuffed nec and mag pets have mr the same as a full buffed bst pet. However a bst pet can still be dispelled. Thus having lower MR now then mag and nec pets. Maybe you might make note of this Tastian. This is in no way a nerf because we are not losing anything. But it is following the same disturbing trend that I have seen as of late. Like having focus items work better form mag pets then bst.  I just don't like us being left out of pet changes because nec and mag tell soe that we are not a true pet class and should not be updated and melee saying we are a pet class and should not be updated there.

[Chubaka]

I'd have to find a caster mob, preferably a wizzie, let the pet establish solid agro, then root the mob and put the pet on /hold,
/hugs

You made me think of something that I always found very odd.  No matter how much time the pet has tog et good solid agro, the caster mobs will generally ignore him when they feel like casting a spell.  They mostly cast on me.  

They do cast on the pet too but they aren't so stupid, these caster mobs.  For eg. if the Siren tashes my pet, they know not to tash him again and will tash me.  

I will have my initial slow, then I can let the pet beat the mob down to 70% and it will still turn and cast on me.  I don't think they follow the same agro / targeting rules as a straight melee mob.  They seem smarter.

[Tastian]

Yeah casters will turn and hit others will spells, would make that testing annoying or atleast less controlable.

I'll make mention of it, but if they actually adjusted the base stats that should mean they had a hard number to look at and just set them even.  Still will mention it though.

[Toln]

I've heard before that casting mobs will cast their spells on the person who is highest on the hate list, not agro list.

Hate list = actual amount of hate accumulated by a person
Agro list = Hate added/multiplied to other factors such as sitting/standing and distance to the mob.

So, sometimes a person can be at the top of the hate list and get spells casted on them, but not be the one who is actually taking melee damage from the mob.

[Wenian]

well Im sure theres a bug on how resists in PvP are calculated (but I think its not only PvP), when I have 400 MR, friend was able to slow pet in 3 to 5 tries each times, he didnt slow me in 50 tries, pet is lower lvl but it shouldnt be that big difference since pet is 63. Atm I think it takes unbuffed MR (I got 210) since my pet resists less then time geared equipped bst that still uses same focus as me (ldon one)