Arbitor in POE

[Derrict]

That is a completely different question than what happens when you are hit with a -100 mod spell -- THAT question is: "what is the 100 subtracted from?"

If you have 800 svm and get howl of tashan (neg 50 svm), your resist check will still be 500 since it's capped and the debuff isn't enough to take you under 500.  It's subtracted from the stat as if there was no cap, so it'd be 800 less 50, giving you "750 svm" but due to the cap you're at 500 svm.

In places like Uqua, you can have  400 str (305 displayed) and the debuff takes you down to 150 str.  Aura of destruction has a neg 250 debuff to str/sta/dex/agi, neg 100 to wis and int, neg 300 atk, etc. and takes into account the excess you have over the cap.  Like with resist debuffs, the debuff is taken from the stat as if there was no cap.

[Bengali]

That is a completely different question than what happens when you are hit with a -100 mod spell -- THAT question is: "what is the 100 subtracted from?"

If you have 800 svm and get howl of tashan (neg 50 svm), your resist check will still be 500 since it's capped and the debuff isn't enough to take you under 500.  It's subtracted from the stat as if there was no cap, so it'd be 800 less 50, giving you "750 svm" but due to the cap you're at 500 svm.

In places like Uqua, you can have  400 str (305 displayed) and the debuff takes you down to 150 str.  Aura of destruction has a neg 250 debuff to str/sta/dex/agi, neg 100 to wis and int, neg 300 atk, etc. and takes into account the excess you have over the cap.  Like with resist debuffs, the debuff is taken from the stat as if there was no cap.

That's pretty much exactly what I said.   Twice.

All I'm saying is: what if an AE with a -250 resist mod works the same way?  That would mean that it would be better to go way over the cap instead of being barely at it, which is exactly the point that Rhaynne and I are making:

Resists can go higher than 500... alot higher. They just aren't shown. This makes a huge difference when fighting mobs with massive resist adjusts.

I don't think we're actually in disagreement on anything. ;)

[Mindlet]

I believe that if you are hit with an effect that appears in the buff box and actually modifes the numbers shown then having over 500 does help. I don't believe that it makes any difference if you are hit by a spell that has a neg resist check built into it.

Example 1. You have 800 resist and are hit with a debuff for 300. You will still resist as if you have 500.

Example 2. You have 800 resists and are hit with a dd with a neg 300 resist. You resist as if you have 200.

I believe that is the way its works.

[Bengali]

It could work that way, or it could work the other way.

No one has actually tested it though, which is the main point I'm trying to get across.   Some people believe one thing, some believe another.  But without some actual answers its silly to say that it's useless to have resists over 500 *or* that they definitely make a difference against spells with negative resist mods.  You might as well be arguing over how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.

[Derrict]

Devs have stated that having anything over 500 will make no difference in resist rates.  It will only have a factor when you are debuffed.  If resist checks went over 500, what's the point of having a cap.

[Bengali]

Devs have stated that having anything over 500 will make no difference in resist rates.  It will only have a factor when you are debuffed.  If resist checks went over 500, what's the point of having a cap.

No one is saying resist checks go over 500.   No one.  If you have 700 resists, the game checks you at 500.  If you have 600 resists, the game checks you at 500.  If you have 800 resists, the game checks you at 500.   If you have 700 resists and are malo'ed then the game still checks you at 500.   Everyone here seems to agree with this point although for some reason you keep posting as if they don't.

Everyone also agrees that if you are debuffed, then the game will take into account the resists that you have over 500, but ONLY FOR THE PURPOSE OF DETERMINING WHAT YOUR "FINAL" NUMBER IS.  It still won't ever make a check with a number that's higher than 500.  If you have 700 resists, and are debuffed for -100, you'll still make checks at 500.

CONCLUSION:  RESIST CHECKS ARE "CAPPED" AT 500.   THERE SIMPLY IS NO SITUATION WHERE THE GAME WILL USE A NUMBER GREATER THAN 500 IN DETERMINING WHETHER A SPELL LANDS ON YOU.

So what is the issue about?

The issue is that some people believe that a NEGATIVE RESIST MOD TO A SPELL WORKS LIKE AN INSTANT DURATION DEBUFF.   No one has proven it does; no one has proven it doesn't.   Some people disagree of course, and until someone tests it we honestly won't know for sure.   But it means that IF resists over 500 matter "when you are debuffed" (which you concede) AND if negative resist mods are calculated the same way an "instant debuff" would be (which is purely theoretical, but worth exploring), THEN resists over 500 would matter ONLY for spells with negative resist mods and negative resist debuffs.

When the devs said resists over 500 didn't make a difference on "resist rates" you realize that they weren't necessarily talking about negative resist mods, right?

When Chromatic Disruption hits you, the game makes a calculation.  It has to subtract 120 from your resists and determine a new number for you.   It will subtract 120 from your total resist (even if you only have 500 displayed) and then display a new number, except it will still cap the final number at 500.

When Aura of Fear hits you, the game also makes a calculation.  It has to subtract 150 from your poison resist, but only to figure out whether the spell will land on you.   It is POSSIBLE that it does the same thing that Chromatic Disruption does -- which is subtract 150 from your total poison resist (even if you only have 500 displayed) and then use a new number, except IF THAT NEW NUMBER IS GREATER THAN 500 THEN IT WILL "CAP" THE NUMBER AT 500 FOR THE PURPOSE OF MAKING THE CHECK.

It is also POSSIBLE that when Aura of Fear hits you, it subtracts the 150 from whatever you have displayed, so that there is no difference between having 500 poison resist and 650 poison resist.

It would be nice if we actually figured out what the answer is instead of assuming it is one or the other.   I am absolutely open to the possibility that it could be either one, personally.  I just don't think people should say, "it works like this" or "it works like that" until they actually have a funny little thing I like to call, "proof."

[Rhaynne]

/em hands out some chill pills

[Bengali]

I actually was able to find out the answer "from the source," and it is (drum roll please):

Negative resist mods DO NOT use the same mechanic as debuffs.   Your stats are calculated with items, AAs, and spells, then capped.  That capped number is what is used for all combat calculations. The per-spell resist mod and level difference resist mod are therefore applied after the cap, no matter what spells you have.

Whew.

So Rhaynne's theory appears to be incorrect. (EDIT:  Which means Derrict is right ;))

[Rhaynne]

I don't know if I buy it, honestly.  Fighting the M'shas in Qvic (who ae constantly) I get relatively hammered at 500 resists... then in a bard group, with my resists pummped to the 700 range, I suddenly resist everything....

Seems fishy.

[Derrict]

There is more to the chance to resist a spell than just the neg resist check.  The stuff below is unknown to all but the devs, for the most part.

unknown112 0 unknown113 0
unknown129 0 unknown130 100
unknown131 0 unknown139 0
unknown140 0 unknown141 0
unknown144 39001 unknown145 39062
unknown146 0 unknown147 0
unknown148 -1 unknown149 -1
unknown150 0 unknown151 0
unknown152 0 unknown153 0
unknown154 0 unknown155 0
unknown156 0 unknown161 0
unknown176 0 unknown177 0
unknown178 -2 unknown179 136
unknown180 -62 unknown182 0
unknown183 0 unknown184 0

One spell that may have a neg 150 check can be resisted less often than a spell with neg 300 check.  It all depends on the other checks that are calculated into the spell, ones we aren't familiar with.

[Toln]

What about for pets? Do they have the same 500 resistance cap that players do?

I can remember reading a post a few months ago where a few people with 500+ raid buffed resists were commenting on how their pets seemed to resist AEs with huge modifiers (-400, -500 or greater) much more often than the player did, which could suggest that the resist cap does not apply to pets.

There was no concrete evidence presented though, just purely speculation.