Defensive

[Otuol]

Tastian,

Have you, or anyone else, brought up the issue of mitigation/avoidance at all?  After reading through some posts again I have seen, it seems to me us being at the bottom of the list in defensives besides pure casters is silly.  Why should a druid be able to outtank us?  I think as well as weapon skills, our avoidance rate needs to be looked at.  Maybe we can get block or defense raised some to me somewhat inline with our melee.

[Aneya]

The reason that druid out tanked the bst in the parses is due to avoidance and shielding abilities on items. Under normal circumstances, bst will out tank a druid.

There really isn't much reason to raise our mitigation unless you want to piss off the monks.

[Otuol]

Well under same/same conditions, by no means do I think we should outdo monks, but considering we do a lot more meleeing than some other classes that can take damage better, I think we should receive something in regards to this.  More or less a suggestion and not many people feel it warranted, then so be it.

[Noxdowne Draggout]

The beast tested was pretty weak in AC compared to some of the better beastlords on this board too.

That wasn't a great representation of us as a whole.

Good thing too, we don't want anyone cursing us out  :P

Nox

[Aneya]

Under the same conditions, we will mitigate/avoid more damage than a druid because our defensive skills cap higher. The example where the druid mitigated more was due to Time+ equipment that had shielding and avoidance stats that allowed the druid to avoid more damage.

[Coprolith]

What makes you think a druid can outtank us? He may have the same mitigation as us if his gear is good enough so that both are at the AC soft cap, but he'll always be leagues behind in avoidance and hps. The same is true for clerics vs knights.
Our mitigation and avoidance are just fine. We should be at the bottom of the list of the melee classes. Solo, its our ability to slow that allows us to tank just fine (and if the mob is stunnable, then our pet is our second greatest asset to our solo tanking ability). In groups you're better off letting a plate class tank, as it should be.

/hugs

[Caali]

I don't particulairly care how we stack up against other classes, but that doesn't mean our avoidance/mitigation doesn't need to be look at. We are after designed to be in melee, and I firmly believe that we are lacking somewhat in mitigation/avoidance against the newer mobs (GoD). If you've fought in vxed, tipt or beyond without uber gear I think you'll find I'm right. I don't need a parse against other classes to tell me I'm dead in less than time than a CH takes to land there.

[Bananea]

I was the Beastlord in Iamthep's parses.

I had just returned to the game after about 5 months of Conquest farming Time. They were the only guild there, so that's all they did and many people got way ahead of me in gear. The reason I was asked to do the parse instead of a slightly better equipped BST was because I had max Defensive AAs.

The druid only beat out because of the avoidance and shielding. Plus one of our major major things is we tank stuff...when it's slowed.

Also though, we are great for when a situation goes wrong. Protective Spirit is one of the greatest abilities we get since we CAN draw aggro.

[Yllandra]

We are after designed to be in melee, and I firmly believe that we are lacking somewhat in mitigation/avoidance against the newer mobs (GoD).

Old-school rangers anyone? =p

[Hzark]

I don't particulairly care how we stack up against other classes, but that doesn't mean our avoidance/mitigation doesn't need to be look at. We are after designed to be in melee, and I firmly believe that we are lacking somewhat in mitigation/avoidance against the newer mobs (GoD). If you've fought in vxed, tipt or beyond without uber gear I think you'll find I'm right. I don't need a parse against other classes to tell me I'm dead in less than time than a CH takes to land there.

You should not be taking aggro off the tank. If you do that in Vxed and beyond you will probably die and rightly so.

If you are slowing you need to be extra careful, and have your finger hovering over the protective spirit button if you get a couple of resists.

I don't see this as a problem with the representation of beastlords in the game. I rather regard it as a challenge to skillful play.

Such challenge = fun, sense of achievement when you succeed.

Do you want everything to be easy?

[Leatherneck]

We have it awfully good as Beastlords.  I'd rather not risk asking for small things and getting them only to be over"balanced" later when other classes-rightfully so in my opinion-gripe about it.

[Tastian]

The main thing to remember is that "balance" is being thrown out the window by SoE.  They don't want class "balance" they want class "definition" that means...

"Well . . . What we want to do is make sure that each class has a role at all levels of play AND that each class is fun at all levels of play.  So while it may be that certain classes still are defined as a DPS class, they would each also have other things to contribute and keep them distinct.  Now please understand that this does not mean we are going to overhaul each class.  We are not sure yet what changes this will mean, if any.  It will mean that we have a new viable framework for moving forward that does not try to maintain a balance by comparing one class with another. "

Although I'm fairly certain most players will still try and use class "balance" 8P.

[Caali]

You should not be taking aggro off the tank. If you do that in Vxed and beyond you will probably die and rightly so.

If you are slowing you need to be extra careful, and have your finger hovering over the protective spirit button if you get a couple of resists.

No, you missed the point completely. I never said anywhere I was taking aggro from tanks. I don't cast DoTs and steal aggro then complain about it. I have no problems in that department.

I do slow when needed and that's one area where I believe we have an issue. If you are slowing for a warrior, in many cases it take him several seconds to grab aggro back. Meanwhile you are being beaten down. This causes several problems in my opinion, mostly due to the fact that we can't shed aggro quickly. But I can accept that as part of class definition.

Another scenario that pops up often enough is when group pulls several mobs. Again on slowing I'll have to be able to tank at least marginally until the add is taken care of (mez, root, whatever). I don't have that ability now.

What I don't like is being a complete mana sponge in less than 5 seconds I can easily lose up to 60% of my health (especially if slow fails). And often (at least in GoD), I'll die. Sure I use protective spirit (which I believe it good as is) but in a group, we aren't going to wait for it to repop before pulling again. So at most it's useful 1/3 of the fights.

I don't see this as a problem with the representation of beastlords in the game. I rather regard it as a challenge to skillful play.

Such challenge = fun, sense of achievement when you succeed.

Do you want everything to be easy?

I've been playing my BL basically since Luclin came out, I contributed on and been reading the BL boards (old and new) since then, I've played pretty much everywhere in the game in this point and in every different style (solo, group, raid). Not that it takes an enourmous amount skill to play any of the classes imo, just a little common sense and experience. I believe I can safely say that I'm not doing much wrong at this point.

So as a marginally equipped BL with a decent amount of playing experience, I once again state that this needs looking into. Up until GoD, I tend to agree with you but now I see this as an area which can be improved.

My prefered method would be it through AA as I stated in this thread OoW AA. Although an increase in defensive skills and/or mitigation might also be a possibility.

I'm not looking to take fun out of BLs, I'm looking to be alive and fighting more so I can have fun rather than standing at my bind point.

edit: links and spelling and stuff