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Revised top 10 list (july 18th)...

Started by Tastian, July 18, 2004, 07:44:48 AM

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Iskandar

Tureptan Spirit would be much more useful if it also contained the hit points of Kragg (365 hp). This would make it a viable alternative for Shaman's Focus of the Seventh in groups where a Shaman is not available. Most of the people I know click off IoS as they don't need the stats (*I* don't even need IoS to max my stats) so the hp from Kragg and/or stamina from Stamina or IoS is the only thing most folks are really interested in. To make it fair, I'd suggest upping the mana cost for TS to put it more in line with the 1800 needed for Focus, taking into account the superior nature of Focus as well (544 hp plus higher stat caps for Str and Dex)... making it 975 would be the same as casting TS (600 mana) and Kragg (375 mana). The duration is good as is (1 hour 12 mins for TS as opposed to 1 hr 20 min for Focus), and Focus should overwrite it.

As for making it a heal... personally, I don't see the need for a spell that's only useful to us when we solo. At 65, IMHO, the focus should be on group dynamics and support. Spells that benefit the group or raid as a whole as opposed to just us or a single target should be the direction our spells are moving. Group support can still be used when soloing (ie, SD or SV) but still offer more as a group spell than a single target spell.

In regards to Feral Swipe, I'd rather it stay a pure dps move than be turned into something other than what I purchased. I bought it for dps, and dps is what it provides -- making it a more reliable form of dps (higher chance to hit or a minimum damage component or even a faster refresh so it can be a true replacement for Kick/Bash) is the path I would rather see it take. I can handle getting agro (Protective Spirit is handy for that) for now, and would recommend the addition of deagro tools rather than replacing our dps with them!
Wildcaller Iskandar Darkpaw --  80 Beastlord, Cohort Chalybeius, Cazic Thule

"Didn't ya hear? That which doesn't kill you makes ya stronger. So suck it up, OK?" ~C.C.
"That which doesn't kill me makes me stronger. That which does kill me I will hunt down after I respawn." ~D.H.

Lorathir

Sorsha is a level 61 spell.  :)

Kensia_

Quote from: Iskandar
As for making it a heal... personally, I don't see the need for a spell that's only useful to us when we solo. At 65, IMHO, the focus should be on group dynamics and support. Spells that benefit the group or raid as a whole as opposed to just us or a single target should be the direction our spells are moving. Group support can still be used when soloing (ie, SD or SV) but still offer more as a group spell than a single target spell.

Its not really about solo its about trying to keep a caster alive in the group when your healer is busy. With the inflation of people HP and the size of AE that are now in the game chloroblast just doesnt have enough power to try and keep anyone alive.

Chloroblast is ok for solo but is as annoying as hell trying to heal 8.7k HP with a 428 (509 with aa) HP heal.

Iskandar

Quote from: Kensia_Chloroblast is ok for solo but is as annoying as hell trying to heal 8.7k HP with a 428 (509 with aa) HP heal.

The Ranger heal "Sylvan Light" (which has been suggested here to be the basis of a new heal for us) is only 525 hp with a 3 second cast time like Chloroblast -- a spell like this would still be "annonying as hell" to try and heal an 8.7k player, especially during a fight. In a fight, I am rarely able to successfully finish casting Chloroblast before a caster dies, and when I do the difference it makes is negligible. I'm sorry, but I just don't see that changing with a better heal, especially considering the damage mobs deal at this level. It's nice for post-fight patching, but seriously -- how much low health downtime does your raid/group have after a fight with wards, bard songs, and group heals/HoT from Clerics, Druids, Shamen, and Paladins all over the place?

Keep in mind too that Beastlords were built as a dps class, not a healing class -- note that Chloro, which we get at 55, is a 39 Shaman spell and a 44 Druid spell. Yes, Rangers get it at 55 too, and yes, Rangers get Sylvan Light at 65 now.... but I am not a Ranger, I am a Beastlord. Yeah, I'd love a better heal -- but I'd prefer better group utility. TS has great potential as a lesser Focus (all it needs is a hp component) in most groups and on many smaller raids, as Shamen are not always around... as a lesser heal, it becomes a solo tool with only slight usage in most groups, usually after the fight is over, and is of negligible use to a raid as a whole (unless you intend to click and spam heal 72 people one after the other :) ).
Wildcaller Iskandar Darkpaw --  80 Beastlord, Cohort Chalybeius, Cazic Thule

"Didn't ya hear? That which doesn't kill you makes ya stronger. So suck it up, OK?" ~C.C.
"That which doesn't kill me makes me stronger. That which does kill me I will hunt down after I respawn." ~D.H.

Birdienumnum

PET RUN SPEED:
Prior to obtaining run3, I had to wait for my pet when both of us had SOW.
Added to this problem is the pet pathing.

PET SUMMON:
I hardly use this spell (clicky glove) when in a fight. The cast time is just too long. The beastlord is a melee, and should be doing damage, not wasting time with long cast spells.
I would like to see this spell cast time reduced, or, better yet, changed to a discipline.

HEALING:
I have been the secondary, or standby healer more times than I like.
I would actually like to see shamans get a better healing role in groups, before beastlords. There is a shortage of healers.  A possible solution would be to beef up the power of the "secondary" healers. (Druids,
Shamans, Beastlords, in that order)

I know I harp on this, but I again plead with the beastlord community to keep in mind those lower levels.
The beastlord has a long slog in levels untill level 49, when spells and abilities become attractive.
Once the beastlord has reached 51, the spells available are a must over obtaining AA's.

Keep up the good work!
Birdienumnum

Hereki

Quotenote that Chloro, which we get at 55, is a 39 Shaman spell and a 44 Druid spell.

We get ChloroBLAST at 62, and it heals for 428 base.  You are referring to chloroplast here, the regen spell.

kukana

I've given this some re-thought.

Like Iskandar, I'd rather that Feral Swipe remain a DPS skills.   Just make irt refresh as often as kick OR make it always land or SOMETHING to make it useful.

My dream?

FS1 - High Damage replacement for Kick
FS2 - High Damage replacement for Kick that never misses
FS3 - High Damage replacement for Kick that never misses and has the stun effects of slam
FS4 - 20% chance to double FS, otherwise same as FS3
FS5 - 50% chance to double FS, otherwise same as FS3

Deagro should really be a different skill entirely, preferably a discipline instead of an AA.
Kukana
Feral Lady
Tunare <Shadow of the Dragon>
--
Magelo Profile

Iskandar

Quote from: HerekiWe get ChloroBLAST at 62, and it heals for 428 base.  You are referring to chloroplast here, the regen spell.

Doh! You're right, my bad! I've really got to stop typing posts at 5:00 am while waiting for pulls to get to camp :P

Rangers and Beastlords at 62, Druids and Shamen at 55 is the levels for Chloroblast, but it still doesn't change what I mean :) Replacing a group utility spell with a low-yield single-target heal at 65 isn't going to improve our class as a whole nearly as much as improving the original group utility spell would.

Personally, and a bit off topic, I would suggest we push to get the OoW heal Yeslin's Mending bumped down to 66, and then a second heal added at 69 or 70. This would give us improved healing at higher levels without forcing us to sacrifice utility or dps in the GoD spells. But OoW is a topic for another thread :)
Wildcaller Iskandar Darkpaw --  80 Beastlord, Cohort Chalybeius, Cazic Thule

"Didn't ya hear? That which doesn't kill you makes ya stronger. So suck it up, OK?" ~C.C.
"That which doesn't kill me makes me stronger. That which does kill me I will hunt down after I respawn." ~D.H.

Taiglin

Rather mundane but can we get the pet messages just sent to us vs spaming everyone w/in 50' or whatever?

<a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=841014">Taiglin[/url] 70 Iksar Beastlord
Nameless - <a href="http://www.foolsrepublic.org">Fools Republic[/url]

Dummkopf

@Iskandara remember that we heal up to 1018 with chloroblast without any focus item. It helped me (and my fellow casters) quite a bit during elemental and time, in GoD however its not very usefull anymore, thats why i want a better heal. TS at the moment is completely useless if you can get it. With added hp like a mini focus it will have the same stacking issues for casters as the normal focus.

QuotePET SUMMON:
I hardly use this spell (clicky glove) when in a fight. The cast time is just too long. The beastlord is a melee, and should be doing damage, not wasting time with long cast spells.
I would like to see this spell cast time reduced, or, better yet, changed to a discipline.

We have a faster cast item already, works from inventory without any need to equip it: Ribbon of Empathy.

Jkal_Shihar

Chloroblast    
Slot   Description
1:    Increase Hitpoints by 428

Mana:   175   Skill:   Alteration
Casting Time:   3   Recast Time:   2.25
Fizzle Time:   2.5   Range:   200
Location:   Any   Time of Day:   Any
Deletable:   Yes   Interruptable:   Yes
Target Type:   Single   Spell Type:   Beneficial
Category:   Heal [Instant]   Source:   Live 07/14

Classes:   RNG/62 DRU/55 SHM/55 BST/62
Duration:   Instant
Items with spell:   Spell: Chloroblast

Cast on you:   You are blasted with chlorophyll.
Cast on other:   Someone is blasted with chlorophyll.
Game Description:   Mends severe wounds, healing between #1 and @1 hit points.


Sylvan Light    
Slot   Description
1:    Increase Hitpoints by 525

Mana:   195   Skill:   Alteration
Casting Time:   3   Recast Time:   2.25
Fizzle Time:   2.5   Range:   200
Location:   Any   Time of Day:   Any
Deletable:   No   Interruptable:   Yes
Target Type:   Single   Spell Type:   Beneficial
Category:   Heal [Instant]   Source:   Live 07/14

Classes:   RNG/65
Duration:   Instant
Items with spell:   Spell: Sylvan Light

Cast on you:   Your body is bathed in sylvan light.
Cast on other:   Someone 's body is bathed in sylvan light.


I dont know, not much of a difference. And I view our heals as downtime only. I gave up trying to save the caster with a heal that with aa's and pray to god a chance to crit hit for a decent amount. Now I just try to piss off the mob that is beating on the caster more.

This is going to be one of those issues that where ever you cross you will please some people and not everyone else.
Animist Jkal Shi`har and tigger
Arch Animist of the Tribunal Server
My Magelo
*still my main since dec. 2001*

Lithale

Think we could add the ability to invis with a pet to this list?  Either by casting see invis on the pet or some other way.  I know breaking charm is an issue, that's why casting see invis would solve that.

-Lith

Kinash

My "wish" is for Pets to not poof when invised! I see that they removed the poofing for CoTH on test.... I would like a non-poofing Warder. I know that Suspend can be used, but that doesn't help lower level players who are more likely to use Invis to save their butts (like in LoY zones). <see thread on Poofing>
Kinash Kattar
Level 66, Khati Sha Apprentice
Tholuxe Paells (Bertox)
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=594639

Iskandar

Quote from: Dummkopf@Iskandara remember that we heal up to 1018 with chloroblast without any focus item.

True, but it's just a 10% chance of a crit heal for that much after spending 24 AA though (Healing Adept I/II/III and Healing Gift I/II/III), which can be pretty pricey for many Beastlords, especially considering all the other useful AA we have available at 65.

Like you say though, our heals are ineffective in a group in GoD -- it's not so much because the heal itself is useless, but because the ratio of our healing ability vs npc damage output is skewed heavily in favor of the mobs compared to us. Other classes who are intended to be healing classes received heals that improve the ratio in their favor (Holy Light and Holy Elixer for Clerics, Sylvan Infusion for Druids, Wave of Trushar and Light of Order for Paladins, Breath of Trushar and Daluda's Mending for Shamen -- some direct heals, some HoT). These spells make these classes more effective healers against the mobs we face in higher GoD content, whereas we receive dps-oriented spells (Turepta Blood and Trushar's Frost) and group utility with Tureptan Spirit.

Say, for the sake of argument, that Tureptan Spirit is changed to a 525 point heal (an exact copy of the Ranger heal). Keep in mind it's still a level 65 GoD rune-drop spell, so it's useless to a 64 hunting in BoT who wants a Chloro upgrade. After spending 24 AA, you'll have a 10% chance to crit heal for (if my math is right, which I kinda doubt :D) 1260, a little over 200 points more than you can currently with Chloroblast. Is that REALLY going to make or break a fight against something that's quadding for 750-1.7k? Or on a raid where the boss ae rampages (infuriate sucks :P), quads for 2-3k, or procs an ae dd?

It's nice, yes -- I'm not denying that.... but is it a more efficient use of mana and effort than a group utility? And which works best for the group/raid: removing yourself from melee for 1-4 rounds to spam heal a caster who has aggro, or remaining in melee to kill the mob faster before it can kill more of your friends? Personally, if a mob has agro on a caster in my group, I hit it with slow and/or a dot/debuff to get it on me, then hit Protective Spirit so the MT can reacquire agro with minimum damage to me (and minimum stress on the healers). Assuming the caster isn't one-rounded, that works rather nicely, even in GoD.

Say you're exp hunting in a group that consists of a Beastlord, Paladin, Warrior, Druid, Wizard, and Cleric. There is no Shaman available for Focus and no Enchanter for C5 if you don't already have it. Assume 5 of the 6 want both IoS and Kragg, and your warder could use an IoS too. To single buff both spells would cost 375x5 for Kragg and 200x6 for IoS = 3075 mana base (Mana Preservation type effects would reduce this, of course) and require 8 seconds per Kragg and 10 seconds per IoS = roughly two minutes. (And keep in mind that the cost in time/mana will be repeated in 72 minutes) Tureptan Spirit as it is now (group IoS) would cost 600 + 5 Kraggs = 2475 mana base and require 10 seconds for TS plus 8 per Kragg = one minute. Add Kragg to the effect of Tureptan Spirit and it would cost considerably less, and be done in ten seconds. This means groups are buffed and ready faster with less downtime after buffing the group (or, God forbid, a raid -- ever play ghetto shaman on a raid when the shamen aren't on? It's not fun, especially if you're the only Beastlord... you spend more time buffing than fighting :( ). Now, in that same group, would you mem a 500 point heal considering the healing abilities of the Paladin, Druid, and Cleric? I wouldn't. I'd swap it for a dot or a dd since 3 of the 6 party members can cover heals much more efficiently than I ever could.

But hey, let's not get too focused on Tureptan Spirit though -- Tastian has some other points worth discussing too (and I am way too gabby for everyone's sanity I think :P )
Wildcaller Iskandar Darkpaw --  80 Beastlord, Cohort Chalybeius, Cazic Thule

"Didn't ya hear? That which doesn't kill you makes ya stronger. So suck it up, OK?" ~C.C.
"That which doesn't kill me makes me stronger. That which does kill me I will hunt down after I respawn." ~D.H.

Kensia_

The problem with TS is that the people that can get it wont use it as the people they group with all have maxxed stats. So it is in effect useless to them. At least an improved heal will actually get used.

Never have DoTs memmed in group or Raid as they generate too much agro.