Solo Instances - well, not just yet...

[danaconda]

Sorry but I must post this. Boring day here at work and this thing just bothers the hell out of me!

Goretzu, why oh why must you insist on either bolding, italicizing, underlining, or CAPITALIZING at least one word in every sentence you type?  :roll:  Practically *any* human being with at least half a working brain can pick up on when and where a word is stressed to make emphasis!

Again I apologize. No ill-will meant towards you at all, really. Just thought maybe you could tone it down and not overuse those things.... please  :D

[Tastian]

I'm sorry dana, but your post makes no sense to me.  I see 2 faces bolding, italicizing underlining capitalizing the word "any" and the word empahsis.  Perhaps you could re-post that with more exlaimations points, some larger font in places and maybe arrows like these

~~~~~~~>             <~~~~~~  

to help make your point.  8)  As it is I keep reading your post like an actor practicing his lines...

Sorry BUT I must post THIS!!

hrmm hrmm

SORRY!! but I MUST!! post ...THISSS!!

no no...

Sorry, but *I* must post THIS!!

[ghostryder]

Group play is what EQ was built on, what it relied on, and group play only will be its downfall. If the "guilds" break down so will the ability to reach the end game content. If the younger players view the end game content as unattainable then they too will depart for greener pastures

Actually on release EQ catered very well to the solo/casual player- it wasn't really til the release of PoP did we start getting expansions heavily focused on flagged zones and high raid end content with little thrown in for the solo character, and worse, when an expansion came out with solo content later (LoY) the mobs again where geared for 60 or lower, had high AC and regen which assumed the typical player had the better high end gear a raider's alt might have.

At least when velious and Kunark was released it had content balanced for both- worse yet OOW realy is for alts too- zippo again for plus 60 players- and that's what's wrong with this thinking- once you go 60 plus you raid or your options go out the window- I don't think I've ever seen an RPG designed that way- where as you level and get more powerful you actually have less choices.

Even all the loot available in LDON or the bazaar is geared toward 60 or lower- the casual player is forced to play 65 in it or raid- or jump to FV  server- that's just crazy.

IMO, a majority of total EQ players are not members of high-end guilds and will never be able to have a play-style that allows them to be a member

I kind of believe the casual players doesn't last too long once they hit 65- they either quite through being bored with few things to do or they create an alt and do the whole thing again with a tweaked character- sadly this is where eq loses the most players, and when these players sees expansions narrowly focused that excludes them they are almost pushed to quit- when are we ever going to see the heavy content well rounded and balanced expansions of Kunark, Velious and Luclin again, that include all in the design?

If they don't do this then the majority of players may leave to try a new alternative (WoW) that is (hopefully) more suited to their playing needs

I'm keeping my eye on both WoW and EQ2- At least WoW is looking to be a solid release and the beta players are raving about it but I have serious reservations as well- If they make play too simplistic then your going to end up with a player base like on battle.net- and it won't matter how good the game is, players like us in EQ won't be able to stand it- To get the idea of what I mean go into any store and pick up a copy of Anarchy Online for 4.99- it'll have a 30 day free trail-

Here you had a game unplayable on release because of bugs- 2 years later that's all fixed- and you now have a game much more solid than EQ- almost as large- the design better in many ways- and a player base so bad your never last the free 30 days- profanity in ooc, trained in any zone, KS'ing on a level never before seen outside the likes of LinageII-
if this crowd is in WoW that game will not be for us-

As for EQ2- I expect that to be much like SwG- unfinished and broken on release- and probably not worth playing for many months after- if at all

[Lorathir]

I kind of believe the casual players doesn't last too long once they hit 65- they either quite through being bored with few things to do or they create an alt and do the whole thing again

/em raises hand

Guilty as charged there. There's nothing for me at 65, but I love the game too much to quit. Hell, beyond 50 the game for me turns to tedium. I don't raid so I have little choice than to roll up and start an alt. I think I've played nearly every class there is. I persevered on Lorathir and got to 65 and thought "Well that's nice. I wish I was 30 again." I dunno - life seemed more carefree back then  :)

Sony have already stated EQ1 is their raiding game and EQ2 is going to be their casual game so I doubt very much they are going to put much of a focus into getting a system that allows you to solo a ldon. I think if it eventually does go in, it will be disappointing, through lack of attention on Sony's part.

[Purrfekshun]

As has been posted in many threads here, beastlords in the high end game are not as valuable as many other classes.  The whole reason my beastlord exists is I wanted a character to get away from the group/raid/XP grind that seems to be Everquest.  My main is a cleric (although which character I claim as my main changes frequently).  If my guild alliance is going after virtually anything major, the beastlord gets put away and the cleric comes out to play.  Face facts, clerics are more valuable to the end game (for the most part, unless you have a ton of them in your guild, which we do not) than beastlords.  SD is nice and my cleric is becoming a Paragon junkie, but the mediocre DPS (I'm taking you guy's word for it on the high end....I will never see the true high end with my beast) and limited utility just are not going to justify me parking the cleric and bringing out the beastlord for a higher end raid.  Therefor, I want more solo content for my beastlord to do when there are no raids going on and I feel like getting away.  The thing that gets me is that SOE forces you to get a group of some type or another just to fill your spell book.  Give me a shot at looting a DPoC or a lifetap aug or Protection of Calliev (or whatever the name is) in a traditional zone and I would never care about a solo LDoN.  As it is, I will have to go without most anything LDoN related on my beastlord.

And I also agree with whoever said that if you want to solo, play a solo class.  If solo LDoN's are ever implemented, I could care less if my cleric ever tries to run one.  I wouldn't expect her to be able to do any solo content, just like she can't now.  Her place in in a group or raid, and she is extremely valuable in those situation.  My beastlord is not....she is at home by herself or duoing with a friend in some out of the way zone.  If you can't solo a character anywhere else, why should you think you should be able to in a solo instanced LDon adventure?

It just seems to me that not having solo LDoN's either keeps my beastlord from getting spells and items that she should have access to or forces me to do things with her that I don't want to do (like beg for pick-up LDoN groups).  I suppose I have the best of both world with both the arguably most desired group class and the arguably best solo class.  I just hate to see the beastlord go without things due to the nature of the class.  Week in and week out, I think I enjoy playing the beastlord the most, but probably log twice as much time per week on the cleric to help my guild alliance do things.

Just my 2 cp...take it for what is is worth.

[Alerka]

In 5 years of EQ, I have never leveled a non-solo class over lvl 20.

All my lvl 65's can solo. (bard, druid, shammy, sk) I don't think I'm the only person in the game like this. In fact, I think there are lots of us out there. Sony would do well to cater to this and release solo instances.

[Chackra]

In 5 years of EQ, I have never leveled a non-solo class over lvl 20.

All my lvl 65's can solo. (bard, druid, shammy, sk) I don't think I'm the only person in the game like this. In fact, I think there are lots of us out there. Sony would do well to cater to this and release solo instances.

I played, off and on, more than half of the time since release, but until BL's came out I never got any character over level 30.  It always seemed crazy to me that characters in a role playing game started out being independent and powerful compared to the mobs they had to face, but then ended up huddling together in groups hoping they don't get stepped on after they got to the highest levels.

My problem now is I don't want to play any other class; SOE hasn't done anything to improve the "transition levels", so I don't want to start over again; and I can't make much progress now unless I quit playing the game I always liked and start raiding -- which is never going to happen.  Something like a third of the game (and the vast majority of the newest content) is off limits to me.

It always seemed to me that EQ is designed to punish soloers.  They claimed it would be a lot of work to adjust LDON based on the number of players.  Um, drop the MOBs one level for each person the group is less than 6, reduce aggro radius, then make the kill numbers required to win proportional to the number in the group?  Whew, that was tough; I'd better take off early today.  That was about 90% of the work right there.  If SOE says that engine mechanics and graphics additions are tough, I'm perfectly willing to believe them.  But to claim that tweaking some zone mob levels and placements would eat too far into their $50 million a month gross income?  Give me a break.

I'm sure some classes might do better if they allowed LDON soloing, but why is that unthinkably horrible, while it's perfectly acceptable to set the game up so that some classes have a lot easier time than others finding a group?  Sitting around waiting until you have EXACTLY 6 members is a colossal pain, and sitting around waiting until you have a Cleric (as many people insist on doing) is even worse.   But SOE refuses to make any concessions at all based on the number of people in the group.  That's not "group friendly", that's "solo hostile."  

Does anybody have an idea how many people multi-box now?  I'm sure SOE has that info somewhere.  How many more people would do that if it weren't such a huge PITA?  If SOE designed a new class that was as powerful and effective as any duo, but took up two group slots and twice the experience, how many people would pay two fees to play that class?  Remember during beta when they initially made the hybrids slightly more powerful than other classes, but take more exp?  They quit because it turned out nearly everyone wanted to play one.  (Heh, it's funny how they fixed the "more powerful" issue about two years before they got around to fixing they "more experience" problem.)

I know that's a stupid example; it would make a lot more sense to design a game to be soloable from the ground up, and then let people group when (and if) they want to.  SOE was trying to take the opposite approach – to design the game to enforce raiding and/or maximum member and idealized configuration grouping to get as many people hooked on that playstyle as possible, expecting the casual-friendly EQ2 to pick up the slack.  They were surprised when a lot of people got get fed up and left early.  If WoW comes out before EQ2, I think SOE may be in for a much bigger surprise.

[ghostryder]

And I also agree with whoever said that if you want to solo, play a solo class. If solo LDoN's are ever implemented, I could care less if my cleric ever tries to run one

This probably is a big concern- if Sony does decide to go with solo LDON I hope they don't just take shortcuts and simply remove some mobs, lesson their argo range and say 'here, now get a solo class and enjoy'

I see no reason why they cannot take some time and balance it for class based missions- for example perhaps lower the dmg and hitpoints if a cleric starts one, or include mana/regen potion drops for a melee class mission and so on-

In other words they should try to include every class even if it takes a lot more work and balancing-

I also would like to add that I have a great deal of admiration for anyone who is able to bring a cleric/warrior and other hard to solo classes up to 65- that takes a lot of patience, work, skill and dedication that most of us lack including myself, so let them include these great players as well in solo LDON.

[Goretzu]

Sorry but I must post this. Boring day here at work and this thing just bothers the hell out of me!

Goretzu, why oh why must you insist on either bolding, italicizing, underlining, or CAPITALIZING at least one word in every sentence you type?  :roll:  Practically *any* human being with at least half a working brain can pick up on when and where a word is stressed to make emphasis!

Again I apologize. No ill-will meant towards you at all, really. Just thought maybe you could tone it down and not overuse those things.... please  :D

Hmm... out of 170 words in that post I:

CAPATIALISED 4 words.
Bolded 3 words (all of which were capitialised ones).
and Italicised 4 words.
And underlined 0 words.

8 out of 170.  :?

I'm not too sure what you're complaining about.


AND even IF I do it too EVERY other word, you can just NOT read it you know!  ;)  :P

[Goretzu]

In 5 years of EQ, I have never leveled a non-solo class over lvl 20.

All my lvl 65's can solo. (bard, druid, shammy, sk) I don't think I'm the only person in the game like this. In fact, I think there are lots of us out there. Sony would do well to cater to this and release solo instances.

Yep if you're playing a class that can't solo and you don't have a definate group almost whenever you log on it can get tedious pretty quickly at higher levels.

That's the reason I think that most newer games either are designed to allow all/most classes to solo or have other ways (missions etc.) to allow players to level if they can't get a group.


The really big advantage solo LDoN would have over the Task system (even IF it is implemented well) is that as well as solo exp it could have given solo LDoN points which gives not only level and AA enhancment for also gear enchancement options as well.

[Purrfekshun]

I also would like to add that I have a great deal of admiration for anyone who is able to bring a cleric/warrior and other hard to solo classes up to 65- that takes a lot of patience, work, skill and dedication that most of us lack including myself, so let them include these great players as well in solo LDON.

While my cleric is only 61 and climbing, I have to say that clerics at least are probably the easiest cless to actually level in the game, especially since LDoN came out.  Even before LDoN, getting groups was extremely easy for my cleric.  The only drawbacks I ever had was when a ton of clerics all hit around my level and were competeing for the groups in the "go here at this level to XP" zones.  When this happened, I would play an alt for a couple days, then go back after the rest of the clerics leveled past the particular zone I was in.  LDoN took this problem out completely.  I can't log my cleric on without getting numurous group offers from folks I don't even know.  The major plus side for clerics is they can function in a group at a lower level than about any other class.  At 61, I get (and usually take) tons of group offers from lvl 65 LDoN groups that need a cleric.  The XP is phenominal (around a full gold of regular XP per 45 min. normal 63+ dungeon).

The down side is you are stuck going to this place at this level to XP.  You have to go where the groups are.  There is no exploring new places and camping for drops or whatever unless a group of friends happens to be going somewhere.  That part gets old at times, and is probably why most clerics in the game have soloing alts of some type or another.

Warriors, SKs, and Pallys don't have too many problems either, as ever group needs a tank.  The ones I feel sorry for are the rogues, monks, zerkers, and rangers....who are pretty much stuck needing a group, but are all fighting for that last dps spot with the solo classes.  It saddens me when I see a rogue LFG for hours on end.  That has to be a horrible way to spend you available game time.  These classes could really benifit from some type of specialized solo instance LDoN or whatever.

Don't fret for clerics at least.  They are the most wanted group class in the game, and if you have the patients to run pick-up groups non-stop (and are at least decent at playing the class), leveling is a breeze.   :)

[Hereki]

That hasn't been my experience, exactly.

There are two fixed slots in any group: tank, and healer.  If there are more warriors/knights than groups, tanks are LFG; if there are more clerics and druids than groups, clerics can't get groups either.  That leaves three classes competing for the slower role, but in 50+ groups only.  All other classes can fit in equally in the remaining 3 or 4 slots for dps.  A rogue or wizard is far more likely to get a call for a group than a healer/tank when those slots are filled.  Beastlord being able to fill both dps and slower means that we have far less of a problem; I get far more calls for groups for my beastlord than my cleric.

[Purrfekshun]

I get far more calls for groups for my beastlord than my cleric.

No kidding?  The Nameless must have a severe cleric shortage then.  Cleric is 61, bst is 62.  I can almost guarentee that if I logged the cleric on right now, I would probably have a group offer before I could get plat out of the bank for KEI and turn LFG on (on a side note, how the heck do people I do not even know find out that I am on and send me tells?  I do not have LFG on and it really doesn't seems to matter what zone I am in or anything.  I just always wondered about that).  My beastlord regularly is LFG for a 3 1/2 hour KEI run while soloing with no offers.  The only LDoN's she runs for the most part are guild aliance groups when they need "one more DPS, lvl 58-65."  Kinda strange.

[Hereki]

Cleric, if not /role, also routinely gets more than one tell for temperance/virtue when zoning into PoK at most times of day.

[Gatito]

Purrfekshun, do a /who all cleric 60 65 and it will return a list of all clerics in that level range.  You might have to narrow the level range if you get too many returns.  That's probably how people who don't know you are able to find you.  :)