Author Topic: Overview of AA Paths to take  (Read 75925 times)

Offline DiosT

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Overview of AA Paths to take
« on: January 05, 2004, 05:57:58 pm »
DiosT's Guide to AA Paths..

Needless to say, each person has a different play style, and while usually people can figure these out for themselves, sometimes ya just need help :-)


This guide is listing AA's by type as what is best depending on your desired role, it is NOT telling you the order to do -ALL- AA's, but tells you, if you want to tank, an archtype ability to get would be _______.


Pre-59
Before 59th level there are no AA's you must stop and get... If you are in a raiding guild (who are your level), you are likely not fighting mobs that have AE's in the 4-digits, so jumping into ND is no help.. the -best- way to get AA's is to level, THEN get AA's...


Spell > AA's.. need the spells before you can boost them, getting the next level will give you HP, just like Natural durability... new pet will increase your DPS..


When do you get AA's pre-65?
Here are some -KEY- levels you might consider stoping to AA
Level 51 - If you frequently are in Dungeons/pulling, you might want to get Innate Run 3
Level 60 - If you absolutely must get Paragon this early, here is where you should stop (new pet/slow over 59th level)
Level 62 - New pet, easy places still open, if you are not in a guild and want to AA grind, 62 is a good level to stop at
Level 64 - I've seen a few beastlords, who dont have access to the 65 spell runes, stop at 64th level and go in AA grinding in LDON, and other places such as BoT until they get the 65 spell runes.


Now a general order to do AA's:
General AA's
In general, all beastlords, solo or not--raiding or not raiding.. Gets Innate Run Speed 3 for indoor running... From here they either get Metabolism (vah shir's mainly), or Regneration... The choice for the latter is up to you, regeneration is nice in the long hall, and metabolism only save you money.. These AA's overall are fairly weak, so the choice wont make or break you...

Everyone:
1. Innate Run 1
2. Innate Run 2
3. Innate Run 3

Non-Vah Shir:
4. Innate Regen 1
5. Innate Regen 2
6. Innate Regen 3

Vah Shir
4. Innate Metabolism 1
5. Innate Metabolism 2
6. Innate Metabolism 3


Archetype AA's:
Archtypes are some of the best Passive AA's for any purpose, mainly defensive in the forms of evasion or healing. We beastlords have other damage increasing AA's that are 'better' then those avalible here. Unfortunatly from here we really start to splinter into what type of beastlord you want to be...

1. Tank
2. Raid-guild Oriented
3. Cleric/solo
4. Melee/solo
5. Grouped

Those are the 5 subjects I'll break down archtype into, there are a few other abilities, but they are -not- really worth getting just yet..

Here are the list of archtype abilities in their best order of value:

1. Tanking AA's
Best Progression for Tanks outside a raiding guild:
1. Combat Agility 1 (Or ND1)
2. Combat Agility 2 (or ND2)
3. Combat Agility 3 (or ND3)
--Go to Class AA's if you can--
--Go to the Planes upgrade for Combat Agility here if you can--
--After getting the highly desired Class AA's:
4. Natural Durability 1 (or CA1)
5. Natural Durability 2 (or CA2)
6. Natural Durability 3 (or CA3)
7. Combat Stability 1
8. Combat Stability 2
9. Combat Stability 3
--Go to the Planes upgrade for Combat Stability here if you can

It is general concensus that Combat ability > Combat stability, and that raw HP > 'phantom' HP, That is why I recommend Natural Durability before Stability... between ND and CA it's a hard call, if you are tanking occasionally, CA is better, if you frequently off-tank in groups and such, ND would be the better choice.



2. Raid-guild Oriented
Best Progression for a raiding guild Beastlord:
1. Natural Durability 1
2. Natural Durability 2
3. Natural Durability 3
--Class AA's--
--After you get the key class AA's for a raiding beastlord:
4. Spell Casting Reinforcement 1
5. Spell Casting Reinforcement 2
6. Spell Casting Reinforcement 3
7. Look at the other types of archtypes listed here for a progression that suits you best (Tanking? or clerical for soloing?)



3. Cleric/Solo
For those that like to be on their own, outside a raiding guild, using a more pet-cleric style of soloing
1. Healing Adept 1
2. Healing Adept 2
3. Healing Adept 3
--Class AA's--
--POP AA upgrades--
4. Healing Gift 1
5. Healing Gift 2
6. Healing Gift 3


I personally don't play this route, but if one so desires, I believe this is the progression that people would like...



4. Melee/Solo
For those that like to be on their own, outside a raiding guild
1. Combat Agility 1 (Or Natural Durability 1)
2. Combat Agility 2 (Or Natural Durability 2)
3. Combat Agility 3 (Or Natural Durability 3)
--Class AA's--
4. Healing Adept 1
5. Healing Adept 2
6. Healing Gift 1
7. Healing Gift 2
8. Healing Adept 3
9. Healing Gift 3
10+. Natural Durability 1-3 (Or Combat Stability)

I went this route myself, for the most part, but since I was duo'ing my way around I went with ND2, CA2, then to class AA's. Final choice is yours


5. Grouped
If you are grouped, there is no archtype skills you must have, look at the above listings for what best suits your role in the group... But typically Healing Adept, Combat Agility, or Natural Durability are what people choose




Class AA's
Class AA's are the best :-) Since most ours have no archtype prereq, you can get almost any AA in this field easily.

1. Tank
2. Raid-guild Oriented
3. Cleric/solo
4. Melee/solo
5. Grouped


Regardless of what kind of player you are, Paragon of Spirit is the best 6 AA's you can spend! Solo, grouped, on raid, Paragon of Spirit is -the- AA to get! It does not work on your pet (disadvantage for pet clerics), but you can step in and tank for your pet !

1. Tank
1. Paragon of Spirit
2. Physical Enhancement
3. Pet Discipline
4. Frenzy of Spirit
5. (If you raid at all) Mass Group Buff
--Back to Archtype--


2. Raid-guild Oriented
1. Paragon of Spirit
2. Mass Group BUff
3. Physical Enhancement
4. Pet Discipline
--Suspend minion 1 & 2 if possible--
--The following in the best order for your character:
5a. Ambidexterity
5b. Frenzy of Spirit
5c. Beastial Frenzy
--Archtype AA's--


3. Cleric/Solo
1. Paragon of Spirit
2. Mend Companion
--Get POP Hastened Mending upgrades if you can--
3. Hobble of Spirits
--Archtype AA's--


4. Melee/solo
1. Paragon of Spirit
--Suspend minion 1 & 2 if possible--
--The following in the best order for your character:
2a. Ambidexterity
2b. Frenzy of Spirit
2c. Beastial Frenzy
3. Hobble of Spirit (if you need snare soon after paragon, get this before #2)


5. Grouped
1. Paragon of Spirit
--The following in the best order for your character:
2a. Ambidexterity
2b. Beastial Frenzy
If you raid:
3. Mass Group Buff
4. Pet Discipline
--Back to Archtypes, or fill in class AA's you need--



Hard to Place AA's
These are AA's that ARE USEFUL, but are either situational, or hard to 'place' in a list...

Mental Clarity 1 - 2 AA's for FT1, Not a bad buy.. DON'T get MC2/3, however, until you have AA to spare!
Hobble of Spirit - Great AA, if you need snare.. not the best snare in the world, but if you need snare, you can get it with this AA -- Situational
Spell Casting Reinforcement - Another great AA, only way to make paragon last an additional tick, also lets Ferocity last a good bit longer... Just hard to place in the line-up :-/



This is really just a rough overview, it's hard to say which way to go when you want to include all the possibilities, I just hope this was enough of a help to give you an idea on how to go...


Please post any feedback, it's welcome :-) I'd like to update this if there's strong opinions against what i listed...

Offline Sempai

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Overview of AA Paths to take
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2004, 06:23:21 pm »
Raiding guild AAs:

For what it is worth, this is what we require of beeastlords in terms of AA:

Run 3

Natural Durability 3
Spell Casting Reinforment 3

Mass Group Buff
Paragon of Spirits
Pet Discipline
Physical Enhancement

Bestial Frenzy 5
Planar Power 5
Suspended Minion 2

Granted, we are a high end raiding guild, taken out Quarm a few times so far, and this is our minimum required AAs. MGB Paragon is the single most important thing I can do to swing the tide in our favor on any major encounter.

After this list, I prefer to think of most AAs as offensive, defensive or utility.

I went offense first after the above list, as we are counted upon for DPS in many situations, so Spell Casting Fury 3 and Ambidexterity were important for my play style.

The defensive AAs of Combat Agility 3, Lightning Reflexs 5 have made a major improvement in my ability to survive random aggro. Of course, my guild would argue that it seems to be common instead of ramdom.  :lol:

Of all of my AAs, the one I wish I had gotten earlier is Mend Companion, with Hastened Mending 3. I use this all the time in groups, raids and even solo. I personally put this into the utility category, as it is neither offense or defense by itself.
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Offline Bheran

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Overview of AA Paths to take
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2004, 07:29:37 pm »
Under the class AA's for tank, you didn't put down PE, which would be a boost to CA, CS, and ND - something I think most tanking bsts would love to have for the aa spent.

Outside of that, it's a really well thought out table.

At the bottom, you might want to put a small list of aa's people always say they wish they'd gotten sooner. For me, it was /pet hold. I got it after getting alot of other things, and was amazed at how much easier it made my life. Mend companion is another that's nice to have.
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Offline Soriab

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Overview of AA Paths to take
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2004, 07:36:54 pm »
Click my sig and look at my AA's I have them most and am in a Raiding Guild. Yes there are some that many would say that are needed that I dont have.

I went this way.

Run3
Regen3
SCR3
Paragon
MGB
--> Full Defensive <--
Suspend Minion 2
--> Most of my Offensive <--

So My current working path is.

Arch
Class
Advanced Planar Power.

Then I will go back to General and Planar and fill them

Offline Moonchaser

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Overview of AA Paths to take
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2004, 07:49:00 pm »
path I took...

Run3
Regen3
SCR3
Paragon
Suspend Minion 2
Then I started raiding......
Pet Discipline
MGB
Full Offensive
Full Defensive
Now working my regens

Offline DiosT

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Overview of AA Paths to take
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2004, 08:40:58 pm »
Quote from: Sempai
Raiding guild AAs:

For what it is worth, this is what we require of beeastlords in terms of AA:

Run 3

Natural Durability 3
Spell Casting Reinforment 3

Mass Group Buff
Paragon of Spirits
Pet Discipline
Physical Enhancement

Bestial Frenzy 5
Planar Power 5
Suspended Minion 2

Granted, we are a high end raiding guild

If you'll notice, if you follow the Raid-guild path from general to archtype and class, the path will hit every ability but Planar Power quickly.. with no 'fodder' abilities between it..

it goes Run3->3 others required for arch->ND3->Paragon->MGB->PE->Pet Discipline->Suspend 1/2->Offensive AA's(Ambi/BF/Frenzy)->SCR3

I think my raid setup covered even your tough requirements fairly well, don't you agree?

Offline DiosT

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Overview of AA Paths to take
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2004, 08:43:28 pm »
Quote from: Bheran
Under the class AA's for tank, you didn't put down PE, which would be a boost to CA, CS, and ND - something I think most tanking bsts would love to have for the aa spent.

Cant believe i missed it :-)

Added to the list, thanks :-)



And as a note to people who are posting here, please dont post your path you took, this isnt a survey, it's a guide...

Corrections/suggestions are welcome, but cant do much with a list of "I went with these AA's" -- Esspecially when I dont know if you solo much, raid a lot, pet cleric, group, etc.

I'm trying to make a guide :-) not take a survey, there's another thread already here for what path people took

Offline Soriab

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« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2004, 09:17:01 pm »
What my path that you see is the rout of a power raider/Off Tank/Primary Slower/Main Assist on raids, I have to be able to take a royal pounding and stay alive.

Personaly I think that all beastlords with even so so gear with the right AA can make a good off tank and and still dish out the DPS, with that in many situations will save a group from a possible long nasty CR.

Offline Hrann

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Overview of AA Paths to take
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2004, 09:55:04 pm »
I debated whether to post here, as I don't want to disrupt the guide style of the thread, but had to throw my 2 copper in.

I don't think it's a good idea for a true soloer to take any ND AAs before other defensive AAs.  Pure hps do nothing when you are grinding away by yourself, unless you are actually killing things that bring you to 5% each time (and then you should probably switch targets for efficiency sake).  Pure hps are good for AEs and complete heals, but have marginal use compared to damage mitigation and avoidance when it comes to soloing.

Offline Tastian

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Overview of AA Paths to take
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2004, 04:17:35 pm »
I had my reply all set as I was reading down the other posts, but then I got to Hrann's and I basically just have to agree with him.  Natural durability is a seriuosly over-rated AA for a lot of bst.  Raid guild sure, required, sure.  Solo?  No way that's my first arch, that's not even in my first 100 and honestly not first 200 if I were doing it all over again.  Even with PE already purchased getting ND1 took time.  

Yes it's more hps, yes when you run out of hps you die.  No it is not "free" hps because you are giving up other things when you buy ND instead of them.  If I were a pure Melee solo'r I'd take ca/cs/LR/ID/PE/HA/HG/IHA/IHG/SCR etc before I ever got back to ND.  As a solo bst SCR really helped not only in mana savings, but also just convience.  Comes in very handy as a grouping bst too as it's nice to do one big buff session before an LDoN mission then simply refresh haste/fero as needed.  

I'm really not as anti-hps as I come across sometimes and some of my characters have always been crazy hp fiends in most people eyes, but as a solo bst I just can't see ND being that high up the list.  I mean ND3 would give say 200-400hps for a solo bst?  Improved regen 3 is giving you 3 more hps a tick, giving you 30 hps a minute.  In just a 15 minute "grind" session improved regen has given you more hps (long as you were constantly down some life and thus regen'n) than ND3 added.  Unless you are getting one rounded, eating huge AE's, getting complete healed (more hps / more efficency), etc then max hps aren't being a huge factor (if any factor at all).  All of those things though are things a person grinding solo isn't going to encounter.

*shrugs* Like I always say do what works for you and your situation.  That's one of the great things about the AA's is they are flexible and eventually you can get them all anyways.  No one choice locks out something else, you simply slow yourself down in getting other things.  However, from a pure solo point of view I'd easily take 10% more healing, regen 3, FT3, CA/CS, 30% longer buffs, etc etc long before I'd take 300(ish) more hps.

Offline Soriab

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« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2004, 04:58:41 pm »
Hmm, Well seeing as I have all the AA's you mentioned and Regen 3 Inate Regen 3 and Body Mind Rejuvination and MC3 with FT10 SCR3 SCF3 and a host of others and I am only at 211 with 1 banked, ND3 PE CA3 CS3 ect.. they are all good and I think even the soloist should get them before the 200 mark.

Offline Tastian

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« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2004, 01:53:45 pm »
Soriab -  Not quite sure I understood your post, but mine as always was just an opinion and I'd never want to "push" it onto someone.  However, I looked at your magelo and it shows 212 points spent.  Things I noted and of course this is all speaking from a pure soloist point of view...

Healing adept 2  So of course not IHA
Healing Gift 1  So of course no IHG
No Mend companion So no Hastened mending
No Hobble of spirits
Planear power 4 not 5

Now whether PP 5 even does anything will depend on the bst, heck PP4 might not even do something for some.  Hobble is questionable to some, swore by in certain spots by others.  Mend companion, especially with HM3, is one that everyone I know who has absolutly loves regardless of how they play, but solo it's a free instant sorsha every 9mins.  Healing AA's are a big personal favorite and especially well soloing they make a big difference.  

Again this was just an opinion, but I still stand by what I said about as a pure solo'r I would not do ND in my first 100 and probably not even my first 200 (especially now with GoD AA's on the horizon).

Offline Soriab

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« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2004, 02:09:54 pm »
True but I dont pet cleric and I have the DpoC Healing isnt all that important with me. With only regrowth I regen fast. Second off I am normally in Sol Ro or raiding or helping others. Truthfully I dont get much personal game time and when I do I grind. Yes your right I dont have them I am going to get them but I have a path of my own that I have been following.

I plan on Maxing in the following order.

Arch
Class
Planar

That might change depending on the final AA release with GoD I am not sure yet, To be assured though that I will bank 30 AA and then start spending them again. I actually planned on Finishing my Healing and moving to the last of my pet AA's after I get saved what I can carry over.

Offline Rippykin

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« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2004, 12:15:48 pm »
Well, I agree with Hrann and Tastian. I too am a HP>All skeptic. I realize that DiosT wasn't framing advice strictly in this mode but I still think that the first post was often enthusiastic about taking ND3 early. The perspective I'm looking at this from is a non-raiding perspective. I won't argue the benefits of HP there.

What I will debate however is the usefulness outside of it. If AE encounters are not part of one's EQ routine, then avoiding/mitigating damage has the dual benefit of a) effectively *being* additional hp representing the damage not taken and b) not needing to be cured using up mana and/or time.

The two arguments in favor of trading this off for more hp seem to be:

1. Surviving an encounter -- those who have lower max HP simply don't survive the encounter due to the speed and quantity of damage dealt.
2. The efficiency of complete healing -- Higher max HP in turn increases the efficiency of a complete heal.

So, what its worth, I sincerely believe that someone who does *not* take part in EQ play involving AE damage/PoP raids is better served by other AAs that have a more higher contribution to playstyle.

Quote
Hmm, Well seeing as I have all the AA's you mentioned and Regen 3 Inate Regen 3 and Body Mind Rejuvination and MC3 with FT10 SCR3 SCF3 and a host of others and I am only at 211 with 1 banked, ND3 PE CA3 CS3 ect.. they are all good and I think even the soloist should get them before the 200 mark.

I agree with this statement. However I think it misses the point of a post such as this. The issue at hand is the relative priority of what abilities are gained first when there clearly can be a very significant differential between the effectiveness of different, useful, top-200 pts AAs. Let's face it - once you get all archetype, class and PoP ability AAs it's a definite bottom feeding process, if not well before that point. The power curve of AAs declines quite sharply after the 150-200 mark if not much sooner.

My advice for the early selection of AAs is rank them according to how much they will contribute to your success in getting xp: Shorter downtime, greater dps, less damage taken, avoiding death, etc. A couple hundred more hp doesn't seem to rank in the top 30-50 for me as a non-high-end raider.

So, there's my anti HP>ALL rant.  :roll:

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« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2004, 05:16:43 pm »
I'll tally up another opinion for CA and CS before ND for the soloing BL, or for BLs in general who are not either a) raiding regularly or b) tanking and being healed by a cleric.

Soloing is about efficiency, and extra HP don't increase your efficiency unless you are using a complete heal...or if you find yourself dying frewuently while soling (ie you don't have enough HP to survive the fight) - CR has a tendency to reduce your efficiency!
:)

I think the argument could be made for SCR before CA - even for the solist.  SCR will save you time and mana (not to mention annoyance) becasue of the mana saving and convenience of the extended buff durations.  Whether that savings would be more by going the CA route and taking less damage in combat would certainly be open to debate.

Other than the fact that I would value ND a lot less than Dios' guide would suggest, I would say that Dios is spot on with the rest of his guide: it concise, its clear and it gives great advice to BLs - no matter how they play their character.

Nice job, Dios!