bye bye group IOS? /sigh

Sharrien · September 28, 2004, 07:47:41 PM

I totally agree that we were long overdue for better heals. I'm glad we got the heals we did in OoW. What frustrates me is that we had to sacrfice our group IoS for a healing spell that no one will use once they get to 67. Did changing TS help ensure Muada's Mending is as potent as it is now? I have no idea, I'm not privvy to the mysterious inner workings of a EQ developer's brain.

Getting a group IoS added (NOT replacing an existing!!!) to our lvl 66 spell lineup would be fantastic. We're the only spell casting class with merely two 66 spells. Kill two birds with one stone, correct this injustice and fix the TS mistake in one shot by giving us a lvl 66 group IoS!!

Aneya · September 28, 2004, 08:01:51 PM

Quote from: Tastianbut the truth is it was a good change that most beastlords wanted and are happy with.

I don't see it this way. I believe most Beastlords don't care either way. What we got was a minority that lobbied for a change and got what they wanted. If people want Group IoS badly enougth we will see a pro Group IoS lobby pop up and push for that. If you want an example of another eq lobby group getting what they wanted look at the delay of OOW due to GoD being too hard for hard core raiders. A lot of casual gamers who probably won't get affected by how hard GoD was for years jumped on that band wagon. IMO they got tricked into fighting someone else's war.

A lot of those that are pro swapping Group IoS for a heal claim that without the change our OoW heal would not be as good. A claim whos veracity can only be validated by SoE. Basically they are saying the ends justify the means. To me the way they word their arguments make is sound like this is good because its in their favor and not necessarily because its is truly better for the community.

Frankly, I don't care either way. If we get Group IoS back in some form, great! If not, no big loss for me. This is not an issue I am willing to fight tooth and nail over.

Oneiromancer · September 28, 2004, 08:09:59 PM

I would have used Group IOS had I been able to get it. But I don't know if I will ever be KT flagged. If this change gives us Group IOS as a level 66 spell, then I will have a chance to benefit. If this change made the level 67 heal better, then I will have a chance to benefit. If we had kept the status quo, I wouldn't have those chances at all.

I don't want to sound like an ass-kisser...but Tastian's arguments make a lot more sense to me than anyone else's. And adding Group IOS as a level 66 spells is included in the top-10 list, so keep your fingers crossed and it may eventually be as if nothing had changed (unless you are KT flagged and refused to buy OoW for whatever reason).

Game on,

TerjynPovar · September 28, 2004, 11:19:44 PM

People complaining about group-IoS are those who *couldn't* get the spell, but could now. Surely you don't believe that Kod'Taz access would be impossible for the casual Beastlord at level 70?

Frankly, I cannot believe you pulled out that argument Tastian...that's the first super-elitist thing I've ever seen escape your mouth.

But if you are going to pull that card I'm done with the conversation.

Tastian · September 28, 2004, 11:45:39 PM

Ok let me try this one more time...

Picture a venn diagram... Universe is every beastlord in the game. Now plop down a circle that represents every beastlord that had the rune. Now inside of that circle look at the smaller circle that represent those people that had the spell and would have prefered it over our heal. That is a very small number of people.

I don't think KT access will be impossible for those at 70, but some still won't have. People are talking like if group IoS was still in game they'd just go get it off a vender and that's simply not true. I know 70th level people in EP guilds with 500+ AA that still aren't KT flagged. The trials will get easier and more people will get the rune, but as they level and get the rune and gain gear fewer and fewer will use.

Do you honestly think the number of beastlords that had group infusion of spirit and used it or will get in the near future and still have use for it is anywhere near the number of beastlords that wanted their healing fixed? This isn't even close it's not an elitest thing it's a simple fact. I know many beastlords that were looking foward to group IoS and by the time they got it they didn't need it either lol.

Seriously man I'm not even talking my opinions here or anything read through this thread, the other thread and the other boards and the grand total of people complaining about this change now that it's happend is less than the number of "WOOOOOTT!!!!" PM's I got the first day I announced the change. You can have your opinion and I agree with some of it, I'd like to see a group IoS type spell at 66, I wish the change had happend sooner, etc. I honestly think you have more posts in this thread than the number of other people complaining about the change lol. I don't even get what we are really argueing about at this point, but it's been one of those weeks lol.

TerjynPovar · September 29, 2004, 02:09:20 AM

Quoting from the top 10 list:

QuoteBeastlords simply want this looked into and made into something that is at least worth looting the rune for.

They've taken a spell, which finally would have been worth looting the rune for...and turned it into exactly the situation you guys were complaining about. But now that it applies to everybody instead of just 2% of Beastlords, you and the other already KT+ people don't seem to care.

And yes, if I still played, the annoyance of single target IoS would have made getting KT access and this spell a top priority once I was high enough level to go for it. Now I would have zero reason to bother.

Perhaps your top 10 list was phrased poorly, but in spite of you and other's joy at their "fix", they didn't change what you actually stated you desired.

Skanda · September 29, 2004, 02:31:46 AM

As a non-KT flagged beastlord I'm more excited about another heal then I was about group IoS. I can count the number of times on one hand where I was in a group where I needed to cast IoS on someone. I personally don't miss the spell.

Deathclaw · September 29, 2004, 04:54:22 AM

if I got KT access - i will not care about the spell, on the other hand - if it was a level 66 spell, then alot of non KT people can get it / use it, they do care about the spell - like me - i would never get it if it in KT, why - not in a big time guild to get me flag, but I can get level 66 rune, and would love to have it.

(and if i was KT flag - who care about the rune - give me that +200 hp /mana and lots stats gear!)

Hrann · September 29, 2004, 01:27:25 PM

The only thing I want to add is that even if level 70 makes it much easier to get to KT, that doesn't mean that tons of people will. I fought in the sewers and Tipt a lot, but I'm not even sewers flagged. It's very rare to get a group that actually wants to go through the hassle of actually finishing a trial - people tend to be there just for loot and xp. It will still be a fairly long and arduous trip to KT, even when we are all level 70 with all our OoW spells.

Rshiel · October 02, 2004, 07:13:49 PM

For what its worth, Im in a KT flagged guild. Have all my GoD spells. From personal experience I cast group IoS occasionally. I Cast some 500 pt heal almost never. My guild raids twice a week. so theres plenty of time in between for groups which are often believe it or not, with folks that dont have access to time+ gear. So would i rather spend 35 seconds casting IoS on 5 other people(with spell haste) or Cast 1 group IoS? pretty easy choice. I cant even remember thelast time I memmed any of my personal heals. They are all kinda pointless i.m.o. when mobs hit for 1k+ all the time.

Rshiel · October 02, 2004, 07:27:09 PM

Also wanted to add, to say that adding the GoD heal increased our OOW is entirely specious, when you consider our PoP heal was exactly the same as a Rangers and our OOW heal is also the same as a rangers.

Oneiromancer · October 02, 2004, 08:53:41 PM

Except, Rshiel, that the original Heal for OoW was less than Rangers; in fact, it was the first time that our heal didn't match up with theirs. And it was felt that this was because Rangers got a new heal in GoD while we didn't.

Game on,

Rshiel · October 05, 2004, 07:43:03 AM

Well I can only go on the fact that the spell that went live was a 680 pt heal as all spell list in beta had the disclaimer that they were subject to change.

This doesnt change the fact that we had a so called fix to our top 10 list that ended up being an minor improvement to some, no effect to others and a downgrade to others. Not much of a fix if you ask me.

Killian22 · December 24, 2004, 10:07:55 PM

Not of the lvl yet to get that OoW heal but its pretty damne easy to get from all the rune drops I see just outta WoS groups (lets hope they dont nerf the rune drops to fix the farmers infalting them in bazaar).

But as someone who is usually the buffer/slower in groups cause Shamans just arent as abundant on my server I guess I would personally love to have a group IoS it saves me an ass load of time. But as far as them changing the GoD heal spell well didnt have that one either but oh well if SoE changed it to give us an easier spell to get as an upgrade in OoW then I am all for it and comend all the other BLs for bitching about it so. BUT I do think SoE should add a group IoS with our OoW spells at like 66 or 67 cause as some have stated with the new expansion and the stat caps raising again it could be a help. That what I would rant to em about but more so hell rant about DPS DPS DPS and more DPS and a little mitigation :-o