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Truth in advertising and Epic 2.0

Started by Xilbeast, September 17, 2004, 06:22:52 PM

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Xilbeast

The original epics were an after thought thrown into eq during the second expansion of kunnark.  The first epic in the game was for a paladin sword that had a flaming aura to it.  SoE saw the popularity of that quest and created one for all the other classes, and epics came to be.  They were not originally listed as a feature of kunnark.

Now 8 expansions after the original everquest we are given epics 2.0 as a listed and advertised 'feature' of the recent expansion: Omens of War.  The expansion promised the creation of these quests but failed to disclose that all of the 7 prior expansions would be required to complete the quest.  Sony did state on at least one occasion that the final battle would take place in omens, but made no refrences to the rest of the quest.  The Omens box states that it requires the original Everquest but again makes no refrence to needing any other expansions to fully utilize its features.

Im not a legal expert, anyone out there know more about the law then I do able to tell me that this isnt false advertising?

Ryanon

I'm not an expert in legal things in any way, but I sorta guessed ahead of time that the epics would involve just about every expansion (probably not LDoN, though, but they could do it, I guess).  

The very word kinda just tells you its gonna be pretty grand in its scope and for it to be as big a deal as it is you'd have to be traveling to the ends of the earth (like LoY, heh) to be finding the pieces.

I guess it won't be quite a sting to me, though, since I've bought every expansion as they came out.  But those who only own a few and all of a sudden have to buy 3 or more, yeah, that will be the suck. :(
Ryanon Epione
Savage Lord
Travelers of Norrath - Saryrn Server

Rhaynne

There isn't any legal ground.  Basically Sony can't be held liable for assumptions that you made.  Though it wasn't stated on the box that all expansions were necessary, it also doesn't state they aren't.

Nusa

At best, you might argue your way into a refund, which is pretty much their limit of liability anyway. Of course, you are liable to lose your OOW access if you go that route.

Cyphen Wilder

No, I don't think you have a stance towards SOE at all.  Planes of Power did not come out stating you would have to join a ubah guild to see the endgame, yet you pretty much have to to see the endgame.  I think that your opinon that you should be able to buy one expansion and expect it to be a complete game in itself is wrong.  It is just that, an expansion.  You have a house, and add a bathroom.  You gonna be pissed that the toilet and shower doesn't work because you didn't buy plumbing for the original house for you to hook into?  Did you need to be told that the bathroom would not work if you did not add water lines to the addition?  To me it is common sense that you need to buy the expansions for Everquest to fully experience all of Everquest.  Just like I had to accept the fact that yes I did buy PoP, but I was gonna have to work at getting flagged to see the endgame of PoP.  The statement that you need original EQ to play Omens just points out that Omens is only an expansion, not the full software to run Everquest.

Raaski Razorclaws

QuoteNo, I don't think you have a stance towards SOE at all. Planes of Power did not come out stating you would have to join a ubah guild to see the endgame, yet you pretty much have to to see the endgame. I think that your opinon that you should be able to buy one expansion and expect it to be a complete game in itself is wrong. It is just that, an expansion. You have a house, and add a bathroom. You gonna be pissed that the toilet and shower doesn't work because you didn't buy plumbing for the original house for you to hook into? Did you need to be told that the bathroom would not work if you did not add water lines to the addition? To me it is common sense that you need to buy the expansions for Everquest to fully experience all of Everquest. Just like I had to accept the fact that yes I did buy PoP, but I was gonna have to work at getting flagged to see the endgame of PoP. The statement that you need original EQ to play Omens just points out that Omens is only an expansion, not the full software to run Everquest.

Where to start with this comment...

QuotePlanes of Power did not come out stating you would have to join a ubah guild to see the endgame, yet you pretty much have to to see the endgame.

First off "high-end" content is a person's opinion. To me PoTatics could be high end, where PoTime is for you. Second of all, PoP didn't have any specific equipment advertised on the site/box to try to sell the expansion. Thirdly, in order to progress through PoP they didn't require you to kill/quest whatever in another expansion (Luclin/Velious/whatever), so when you bought PoP and only had maybe the orginal game and kunark you could still experience the whole expansion if you put forth the time/effort.

QuoteI think that your opinon that you should be able to buy one expansion and expect it to be a complete game in itself is wrong.

No, I think he expects to be able to do what is advertised when buying the expansion...it's that simple.

QuoteYou have a house, and add a bathroom. You gonna be pissed that the toilet and shower doesn't work because you didn't buy plumbing for the original house for you to hook into? Did you need to be told that the bathroom would not work if you did not add water lines to the addition? To me it is common sense that you need to buy the expansions for Everquest to fully experience all of Everquest.

You are comparing "common sense" knowledge from years and years of practice (building homes and what it takes for them to run properly), to a game. If you want a comparison to go on, how about you go to a new car dealership and see this nice brand spanking new car you have been looking for. So you buy it right off the show room floor and get ready to take it out for a test drive. It starts up fine and you start to shift into first when all of a sudden you can't shift gears. Getting quite upset you go back to the sells guy and ask him why can't you get the full experience from something you just paid for, and he responds "Well it's common sense you need a transmission for a car to go". Now when you went to buy the car you expected it to come with certain things (aka be complete and ready to go) and nothing you saw when buying it said otherwise, but all of a sudden what you just bought isn't complete unless you buy "opinional" components. That is very bad business procedures and I'm sure you would be mighty pissed off if that happened...this is the same thing just on a smaller scale.

Yeah, it's "common sense" that you need all expansions to experience the entire game of EverQuest completely...but if you got an expansion it should be "common sense" that you should be able to experience THAT expansion fully without having prior EXPANSIONS.

cougerofeq

Didn't epic 1.0 require access to different expansions?  If so then 1.5 and 2.0 would be assumed to do the same as they are the next versions. I know the BST epic did because BST were added in an expansion.

I think a legal batlle would be hard to win and not sure you would get much even if you did. Its not likely a court would force them to give out epics as the terms of a lawsuit or have an optional 1 expansion only option to complete it. I would hate to see that version of the process.

Nusa

Epic 1.0 (for the original classes) was implemented in Kunark, which WAS the first expansion, so obviously the issue didn't come up.  The beastlord epic 1.0 was implemented as part of the Luclin expansion, also requiring Kunark access to complete -- I honestly don't remember what the box said about required expansions. And I don't know what the berserker epic requires...

Xilbeast

epic 1.0 wasnt advertised on the box, as original post stated.  It was an after thought thrown in when the realized the popularity of the paladin super quest and gave one to all classes.  Beastlord epic was additional and also non-advertised part of luclin which included kunnark.  That made sense since all prior epics included kunnark, i have utterally no idea whats involved in the zerker epic.

As for the plumbing your analogy isnt accurate.  Consider this instead, you hire a plumber for running water, he installs it and gives you the bill.  You turn the faucet on but nothing happens.  Call the plumber back and are told, oh you also need to buy another 7 secondary products for the water to work and you have an accurate analogy.

I've written sony about this and they have declined to respond.  My intentions from here out are quite simple.  Im cancelling my account (which wont go dead until november) and moving to worlds of warcraft (which i hope to be out by then) to get away from SoE.  I'm am not leaving eq just over this but this is definatly the straw that broke the camels proverbial back.

Grymlok

:roll:

Gee, I woulda never thunk I needed the whole game!

Of all the things to cry over: a quest that isn't even completed yet.  I could see someone complaining about the quest mobs in LoY.  After all, that was a downloaded "extension" as opposed to a full-fledged expansion.  But you are complaining about not having what is (imo) one of the better expansions, after the fixes.  Especially with the lv 70 cap, guilds will be able to progress easier into GoD.

The Berserker: Foecussed

Xilbeast

Grymlok:  I dont own gates, nor do i feel as though i should be required to pay an extra charge to gain access to a featured advertised element of omens.

Kherryn

Well, they did their part.  Epics 1.5/2.0 are in the game.  Whether you can reach the content that it sends you to because you don't have the entire game is another story.

Expansions aren't a game by themselves, they are an add-on.

Cyphen Wilder

Thank you Kerryn, you nailed what I tried to explain and seems I failed miserably...hehe.  It is an expansion, not the entire game.  For you to complain and quit because you expected epic 2.0 to be completely within OoW is ridiculous in my opinion.  Or are you saying that it should be obtainable with EQ Original and OoW?  Seems to me you are asking alot in return for your minimal investment.  As for the person that used the car as an analogy, it is worse then mine if anything.  You say you bought a car and the saleman did not mention you needed a transmission.  Well, OoW is an expansion, not the core game.  Where as a transmission is a part of the car, not the whole car.  I think it is common sense, you need all the expansions to experience EQ for all its worth.  If you choose not to buy them all, then you choose not to experience them all.

JillieMT

Legal? Hahahahaha!

Pasted all over the EULA, and everywhere else is something along the lines of, "Game and content subject to change."

Ban frivoulous litigation!
Lady Jillianna Silversoul and Cody
71.181 Halasian Feral Lady - Morell-Thule... erm, Erollisi Marr
Faveo Sulum Ipsemet Ascio

Bengali

QuoteThe Omens box states that it requires the original Everquest but again makes no refrence to needing any other expansions to fully utilize its features.

The Omens box doesn't say anything about your needing Luclin to start the beastlord epic either, but did you honestly believe that you wouldn't need Luclin to do the quest, particularly when you need Luclin to make a beastlord in the first place?

Similarly, our first epic quest required every expansion at the time (except velious), so when  new "epic quest" is advertised, what would lead you to believe that it wouldn't involve more than one expansion?
Savagespirit Bengali Grimmspirit, Scion of Shar Vahl

"My friend Mark said that he saw Bengali totally uppercut some kid just because the kid opened a window.
And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"