screwoff

Author Topic: Whiney classes.  (Read 11432 times)

Offline Latang

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Whiney classes.
« on: October 15, 2004, 06:59:51 am »
During my lunch break at work today, I browsed through the campfire forum, with the hope of seeing something cool. Woot, something about pet changes, with mages crying that they can't slow mobs anymore cause sony "stealth nerfed" a slow proccing weapon they were giving to their pets. So I wonder over to the Mage Compendium, and find a lengthy discourse from high standing members of the mage community bagging SOE and all they stand for. Within that, numerous snipes and bitches about how beastlords get 65% slow already and omg they are overpowered!!...


I am bunnies-ing sick of other classes thinking that we are overpowered. We are not. Look at tanking ability - yes, we can tank well, assuming that a) you have uber gear and aa's, and b) you have a solid healer. Look, I am reasonably well equipped. I have about 70 avoidance last time I looked, with 1800 ish buffed ac, maybe more. I don't look at the numbers any more, it's pointless. If I was to try to tank stuff that I hunt, my poor cleric would spend so much time healing me, that's all she could do. Boy, how to make a clerics life exciting. I get destroyed by anything hitting high damage because I haven't invested all my gear upgrades in shielding.

We can heal our pets and let them tank. EXCEPT that with a base delay of 9 seconds, the stuff we want to kill will have eaten our pets, so we get a once every 9(?) minute insta heal. Their mitigation/defence just isn't up to what other people have.

I have some fairly good weapons. 25/19, 26+1 (or+2)/22. My dps from these weapons is fairly good, with raw melee damage (including kick, and full buffed) around 140 dps (if some newly rezzed caster doesn't require SA, in which case dps drops hugely cause well, you stop attacking for 8 or so seconds). procs add about 10 dps? bit more maybe. My pet (I currently have only the 68 one) would maybe do 75 melee dps, tho pets are hard to keep alive in the OoW trials which is mainly what we do now (cause with all these mobs running around, with 4k ae's, ae rampaging mobs, etc). No-one knows what dps pet procs do.
I parsed the melee's in our guild during a qvic raid. My melee dps was about 135, my pet was about 70. (This was on IK before OoW I admit). Monks were EASILY out damaging me and pet by 50-100dps, rogues blew me away, hell, paladins were damn near equaling just my own melee dps, and warrior surpassing it significantly.

But to have a MAGE crying about his dps, whining that his pet was not putting out enough dps and the pet accounts for at least 25% of his damage... Get bunnied. Ok. Mage pets are 100+dps. The mages are crying "nerf beastlords" when they can damn near double our dps, their pets can take a lot more beating, and now want to be able to slow as much as us??? Bunnie that. They are screaming about the injustice, and it pisses me off because I just can't see the injustice.

Why can't people just shut the bunnie up and enjoy the game? If they are so mad about it, quit the bunnie thing or make a class they will enjoy. I wish my beastlord did more DPS. But i'll settle for having fun thanks.

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Offline JillieMT

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Re: Whiney classes.
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2004, 08:53:00 am »
Quote from: Latang
Get bunnied.


OK, sorry to derail your post, but I love that.

/hugs Latang, and Rhaynne  :P
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Offline Jolrash

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Re: Whiney classes.
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2004, 12:35:48 pm »
Quote from: Latang
If they are so mad about it, quit the bunnie thing or make a class they will enjoy.


This right here is my feeling exactly.  I don't understand why one class has to slam and complain and flame another class because "oh, they get to slow, why can't we?" or "They're overpowered, we are supposed to be the uber class, NERF THEM!"

I started EQ with a Necro and got him up to 63.  When I saw a class be able to do something that I couldn't it didn't make me want to come and find the boards to complain and slam that class.  No, it made me say "You know, that looks like it could be a sweet class to play".  I've now got a 53 (almost 54) Beastlord and have put my 63 Necro, 43 Rogue and 31 Wizzy on the backburner.  

My point is if you see a class thats got something that yours doesn't and you really want to do that something...........Go play that class.

Offline Rhaynne

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Whiney classes.
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2004, 06:07:47 pm »
/sniff

Lata, you had me at bunnies.

In all seriousness, the rampant mage whining is from a select minority of short sighted, nitpicking fools.  Vocal fools, but fools nonetheless.  One thing I have always been proud of in the beastlord community is that, with the exception of the few, we have the ability to look outside our own class and look at the overall impact of changes and our requests reflect that.

Too many loud people from other classes cannot see past their own class and do not have the ability to see outside their own concerns.  Take comfort in the knowledge that the average beastlord can understand the abilities of other classes as a whole before comparing and contrasting percieved lack or overabundance of power.

Offline BloodCelt

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Whiney classes.
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2004, 09:59:24 pm »
What gets me is how all of a sudden, the drones over at the Mages Compost made a few gestures at getting us on board after their vocal screeching / and crusade of pure fantasy burned most of the bridges of good will among even the most docile members of our community.

Then they have to nerve to get idignant about us more or less telling them to get bent when they need our input.

If another mage community springs up away from the dumb-asses that are running things there now, I would go back to exchanging ideas and thinking of solutions that affect our classses.   As of now however, the mages have let the worst of their class be their voice.  I for one have nothing more then a hearty /gofuk for 'em.

BC
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Offline Eatbugs

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Whiney classes.
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2004, 10:09:50 pm »
When I see someone post over here asking for moral support and remember that he's the same person who decided last year to repeatedly flame the entire Beastlord community on both Mage and BST boards (anyone who's been around a couple of years knows who I'm referring to) my sympathy is extremely limited.

Offline Lorathir

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Whiney classes.
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2004, 01:17:24 am »
Some people like to piss and moan and act like tits. If they weren't doing that, they'd be letting the air in your tyres down, hiding in bushes, or phoning you up at 3am to ask if the Ali Baba jugs are still for sale.

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Offline Lesrik

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Whiney classes.
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2004, 09:24:29 pm »
Heh, even with the overtures, I don't think the pet classes are ever going to agree.  Look at what happened when The Druids Grove tried to get the Priest classes together to discuss their problems.  It helped some people to see the other side of the coin... but it really didn't do much at all.  I don't expect much better from any pet class discussion.

Offline Coprolith

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Whiney classes.
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2004, 07:46:42 am »
There are no whiney classes, just whiney people. The reason why some classes appear to have more of them then others is because those classes have more problems to whine about, and have had those problems a lot longer. With the exception of berserkers, all classes have more history to them then us and if there's one thing that induces whining, then its the 'good-ol'-days'.

Mind you, im not justifying the whining itself and the fact that they take it out on classes with less problems then themselves out of petty jealousy is abhorrent. But make no mistake, if the situation was reversed then beastlords would whine just as hard. You and I are no different then 'them', its just that less of 'us' have reached the breakpoint.

But I'm already seeing a change occurring on this board. With OoW our class has become weaker simply because of innate game mechanics, yet i've seen things like "looks like the constant cries for nerf beastlord of class_X is finally paying off" pop up several times. Proposed solutions to current problems that could benefit other classes as well are met with strong resistance because heaven forbid "they" get an upgrade as well.

The fact that you titled this post "whiney classes" instead of "whiney people" is just another symptom.
Elder Coprolith III
Trollie ferrul lawd of 65 levels (retired)

Offline Latang

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Whiney classes.
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2004, 09:56:47 am »
With all due respect, that pool of drivel that I read didnt have 1 "Person" saying "what are you complaining about? we're sweet". Like it or not, that is the cross section of the mage community that we generally see, with the exception of individual guildmates/friends. Yes, I'm being specific atm and saying mages.

They are the over powered ones now. A mage being able to maintain 530+dps on a tacvi named? Over 1kdps for 60 sec? This class is complaining that as well as all that they cant slow mobs to 61% like they used to be able to. Well omg, let's cry about it shall we? We want to have pets that are  much tougher than bsts cause we cant slow, and oh, pets are at least 25% of our dps. Well, they want to be able to slow too, and set up an 8 page rant when they can't. Our pets are roughly 1/3 our dps, if we have VERY good weapons, and our only advantage is we can (sometimes) slow mobs. On mobs that partial mitigate slow, surely mage pets are by far better at tanking than ours.

"People" who have it as good as they do should really shut up in case they attract too much attention to themselves...

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Offline Lorathir

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Whiney classes.
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2004, 12:54:20 pm »
The solution is is simple one, it always has been.

If there are a few 'niggling issues' a community percieves as a hindrence or a problem with their chosen class, it should of course be debated, worked out. I think we're seeing this happen with the Beastlord class right now, circa GoD and OOW. Whatever channels are available for discussion/resolution they should be used.

If the 'niggling issues' multiply or get worse, you've a different situation. For whatever reason, things aren't being resolved. You're using the correct channels, adhering to suggested means of communication etc. But there's a limit on how far you take this.

IF YOU'RE ISSUES AREN'T BEING ADDRESSED, QUIT THE GAME OR PLAY ANOTHER CLASS. There's only so much time you really need to devote this to.

Why waste so much energy, stay up so late at night, petition so much in AN ONLINE GAME TRYING TO CORRECT AN ISSUE WITH A FREAKING SUBSET OF IT?

If the fun disappears, try and make it fun again. If you aren't being listened to, then for gods sake quit. You owe it to yourself, not your community. Remember, it's a pissy little fraction of a pissy little game you're trying to change, not remove poverty from the world. Put it in perspective, don't be a martyr for the cause your championing when the representative of said game comes to your internet website and you personally attack the poor bugger.

For crying out loud, there are more important issues that are crying out for the amount of dedication you have. But you choose to attack other pissy little subsets in your pissy little game. Blimey.

This is why I fly off the handle when I see anti-Bst sentiment, or any class envy. I get angry because I see so much wasted potential, so much energy that could AND SHOULD be used to affect more important issues. EQ is more than a game, yes - but not THAT much more.

Offline Moffett

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Whiney classes.
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2004, 12:29:50 am »
Quote from: Latang
This class is complaining that as well as all that they cant slow mobs to 61% like they used to be able to. Well omg, let's cry about it shall we? We want to have pets that are  much tougher than bsts cause we cant slow, and oh, pets are at least 25% of our dps. Well, they want to be able to slow too, and set up an 8 page rant when they can't. Our pets are roughly 1/3 our dps, if we have VERY good weapons, and our only advantage is we can (sometimes) slow mobs. On mobs that partial mitigate slow, surely mage pets are by far better at tanking than ours.

"People" who have it as good as they do should really shut up in case they attract too much attention to themselves...


"People" don't always have it as good as you may think. "People" probably think the same thing about the Beastlord class but others know differently.

The point they are making in a whiney fashion is that they once had the ability to do a ghetto slow at sizeable cost and now they have lost that ability entirely. For reference, how many times did you rely on your epic to do the slowing for a group? Or how many times were you grouped with a range who was main slower, and how reliable was it?

As Coprolith so well put, the whiney mages indicates a larger problem. Dismissing them as a whiney class who don't know how good they have it is disrespectful. When beastlords have whined for a year because we can't slow and people dismiss us as a whiney class, I hope you get the irony then.

Offline Shieara

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Whiney classes.
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2004, 01:15:57 am »
Wow all the hate.

Just remember that out of all the mages that play EQ probably less then half of them are posters on that forum.

Out of all the posters on that forum probably half of them are contributing to the whinefest.

Blame the individuals not the class.  I have lots of mage friends (none of which actually post on the mage compendium, though some are lurkers).

Offline Coprolith

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Whiney classes.
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2004, 06:45:02 am »
Lorathir, seeing your lavish use of capital and bold letter you must be pretty upset about this. Maybe you should take your own advice. After all, there's no point in getting an ulcer over a game.

Quote
Remember, it's a pissy little fraction of a pissy little game you're trying to change, not remove poverty from the world


/hugs
Elder Coprolith III
Trollie ferrul lawd of 65 levels (retired)

Offline Lorathir

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Whiney classes.
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2004, 06:01:48 pm »
It's often therapeutic to just tell it like it is. I've never been the sort to mince my words, so I don't know any other way. Besides, it's rare I get steamed, and when I do, five mins later I'm happy again. I doubt I'll get an ulcer.  :)