Whiney classes.

[Latang]

Personally I bitch/get pissy to prevent the ulcer. Just annoys me when "people" want to have their cake and eat it too, and to take cake off other "people" and bag the ones who made the cake cause there wasn't enough of it to have 2 spare cakes just for them.
...

[Nendil]

You know, I have to agree, that is it whiney people, not whiney classes.  I play a 65 mage as well as a beastlord.  I'm not really playing the mage unless I need pet toys or something specific, but overall I'm not upset by the changes.  SOE makes changes, and we have to get used to it and adapt, it's been that way for along time now.  Sure with the class correspondents it helps to get our voices to SOE to have things improved to our desires, but overalll they will do what they want so we have to take it with a grain of salt and keep going.  Or if thye can't do that, maybe they should find another class / game.  

I think it's just whiney people that aren't happy with what they have so they have to whine about others' abilities and their lack thereof.

[Aneya]

I've always felt that certain classes are more likely to attract whiney people than others. Or perhaps its certain forums are more prone to whineyness than others.

[feralize]

...and don't even[/i[ mention monks. Or shaman. Or pallies...

[Zurash Kittenclaws]

I just raid when raids are on and play my newly created Rogue twink (that almost busted my once nice bank plat balance hehe) when I have some downtime, since I am now 70 and bored of the aa grind. :)

[Silverblade-T-E]

*mage here*

Ok, the nerf in question was a..not welcoem thing. It was to oen specific item, Di'zok oracle shilllagh, prcos 70% slow. APparenlty devs are going to add "no pet useable" tag to items they deem inapproriate.

Devs think pets are too durable now and thussuch items = over powered.
I hear doen totla idiot claim that the item procced EVERY fight EARLY and was thus too powerful...total moron. Random proc chance, same as any other: coudl proc early, as mob dies..you could never rely on it. It was NICE to solo but it was far far too unreliable to *trust* or replace a slower. I had about 12 or so f them over the years, each time me or pet died soon after...as a raid mage the longets I've had a pet with Suspend Minion 3 is 5 days..when I was  not playing much ;)

The "Slow Stick", as it's known , is primnary only thus if gave pet a weapon with better delay, the slwo stick would become unusable, an interesitng FYI. No one , NO one used the damned thing because it's a piece of junk, except for pet classes. It's Shaman wepaon procs 70% slow...in combat, req level 51 iirc. So what shaman needs that, and it has no good stats. Just made mages have fun, as necros didn't need it, BST can slow anyway.

mages are whiney because, well, us old timers, have had way too many damned nerfs and changes ot take any of them lightly.
it's also probably a clas trait: "Attract_Cranky_Codger"
;)

Mage class kicks total ass as a "DPs for group" class, lot sof useful abilities, very high DPs.

[Et^Cetera]

Does anyone remember when the Nearly Complete Heal (NCH) spells came in for Druids and Shaman?

If you had been reading the Cleric boards at the time, you would have think they had removed half our spells, lowered our skills caps and chopped both arms and legs off. Yet .... fast forward to present day, everyone has just accepted thats the way it is and gets on with it.

My personal opinion was/is that Druids get whatever they want if they whine enough about it. Clerics lost their stranglehold on the healing monopoly and wanted BIG things to "balance" it. Snare, better nukes etc etc. Most of which they didnt get.

Yet does my Cleric go to the Druid/Shaman boards and make a big stink about it? no.

However you feel the classes are, balanced or not, after scanning alot of the class boards it seems EVERY class has an issue  of one sort or another.

Remember the famour Warrior "sit in" in POK? and as a result, subsequently all the knights got the hump that they couldnt tank in newer content as effectivly.
Clerics complaining of lack of utility (invis primarily)
Shaman complaing of slow mitigation and being un-desired if a BST is in group.
The imfamous Monk nerf
Bards complaining because they could no longer kite an AA every 10 minutes.

However the issue of SLOW to mage pets seems a little more basic. This issue seems to be a case of high level toons wanting to go and kill things without a slower. Certain classes were designed to slow .. and others were not

It seems quite simple to me. If you want slow, bring a slow capable class into your group or go without. Same with healing.. you want healing .. bring a healer into the group.

[Silverblade-T-E]

Cailus,

Ah, but...
what if they stopped BST pets using snare, stun or mage summoned weapons? ;)

We're talking about a very rare item here. that did NOT allow mages ot be "slowers". Check out proc rate of normal weapons on mobs, remember mages can't dex buff their own pets.

[Et^Cetera]

Cailus,
Ah, but...what if they stopped BST pets using snare, stun or mage summoned weapons? ;)

Then like most things .. people would have a bit of a shout, rant, jump up and down a bit, rant some more, then it would blow over and the world would keep on turning. (see reference to NCH`s)

Also I would say it wouldnt affect 80% of Beastlords out there at all, and I am sure the other 20% would find some other work-around.

[Dummkopf]

Actually, beastlords wouldnt care. Snare? we have hobble, its not great, its not reliably but it procs 7 to 8 times a minute instead of the 2 times a minute that a weapon does. Stun? everyone of our higher level pet procs has a stun and real beastlords can slam. Mage summoned weapons? Mages would be the loudest to whine since they lose customers and one of the easiest plat generators for them.

[BloodCelt]

and real beastlords can slam.

Preach one Brother!

BC

[BloodCelt]

and real beastlords can slam.

Preach one Brother!

BC

Preach On too

[danaconda]

Dummkopf wrote:
and real beastlords can slam.


Preach [on] Brother!

BC

LOL I was thinking the exact same thing!

Ah, but...
what if they stopped BST pets using snare, stun or mage summoned weapons?  

I don't think there would be many beasts complaining about snare weapons. Even the ones without hobble. Most beasts (from what I gather from this board) accept what our limitations are. Anything we lack as far as utility goes we just chalk up to the "Vision" not wanting us to have it. We do, however, complain when we aren't upgraded properly through some recent expansions.

But overall, I don't think many beasts would mind losing the abilities that droppable weapons gave our pets (except mage gear, which we all love  :wink: ).

[Rylden Riptide]

Hey guys, thought I'd come over and say a few things just for shits and giggles. :)

1.  Never used the Di'Zok slow stick.  Never cared about it.  Don't care that it was nerfed.

2.  Regarding slow: Most mages don't want slow or snare.  It has been my experience that the newer mages (read those created after Luclin) bitch about this the most because, well, they're pathetic.

3.  Defensive vs. Offensive.  Fact of the matter is: YOU are a Defensive pet class.  Yes, you slow, you tank, you do a lot of things - but let's face it... your DPS sucks.  But that's the way it SHOULD be.  Magicians are an Offensive Pet Class.  We can tear shit up like nobody's business, but if our pet drops, we're mince meat.

4.  My complaint about Beastlords - and I have only one jealousy towards you, I'll be perfectly frank.  Your heals are more efficient than ours.  Once again, that's defensive vs. offensive... but we have a recast time of 7.5 seconds on most of our heals, where you have a recast of 2.5.  Hell, our OoW heal has a recast time of 10 seconds and only heals 550 hitpoints more!  We don't even get Heal AAs.  So there... I've admitted my jealousy!  /cry

5.  Pet weapons - the only mages I see selling pet summoned weapons on a regular basis are bots.

I saw a lot of stereotyping here based on perception of personalities at MC.  I'm not going to lie and say they don't whine, cause they do.  Hell, I'm one of the biggest ranters over there - but rarely rant about anything specific with my class.

Why?  Cause it's not broken.  And my personal belief is that any Magician who bitches about the damage output of a mage, doesn't know the first thing about playing their class.

Do I sometimes get a twinge of green when I see you guys soloing more XP worthy content?  You betcha - but only because I hate the 2%AA per kill grind all the time.  You can mitigate the damage, slow it, etc. and the same content eats through our pet and us.  Does that make you a better class?  Hell no.

Just different.

The way it should be.

[Latang]

Nice to meet you Rylden :)

Fair comments all, as I stated a coupla times early on in the posts, I shoulda named this thread "Whiney people" but /shrug. I should never have gone to MC, cause it just pissed me off. Hell, going to MB or Pally board is damn near as bad. But you are right, we DO have defensive capabilities, that's true enough. High end beastlords pushing 2k ac and 13k hp makes us quite able to take damage on a wholly different scale to mages. My concern with our class stems from the "your dps sucks" comment. Mate, you watch beastlords on a raid. We SA everyone, we fero a few classes (can keep 4 people fero'd with the 65 and 70 spells with relative ease, tho timing em sucks), yes and mass paragon. Then we wade in to melee. When our asshole monk calls out "grats me top dps" and then lists the the people in the top 10, and top 20, dps... and I'm not on it...  We are a dps class. That's been our defining ability since day 1.

Not anymore. Oh well. EQ1 seems to be dying anyway. We are struggling for numbers now, and there are only so many times you can recruit people to have them pad out their magelos then dissapear and see their char selling on player auctions.