Apology

[Tastian]

The only problem I see is that really you just don't have to say it.  I'm sure I could add a sig at the end of every message I post that has links to pro-life, to T-cell research, to crispy creams, to united negro college fund and dozens of other things.  It's a matter of just becuase you feel it or think it doesn't mean you have to express it in this way, in this place.  Do you wear a T-shirt with that pict on it full time?  Do you answer the phone "hello, B&C in 04!"?  The problem as I see it isn't one of having an opinion or even mentioning it when asked, but rather putting it out there with no need for the context.  Understand that you are talking about having this in your sig.  This isn't a rants section or OOC discussion about politics, but rather you are going "hey slavekeepers maul owns, btw B&C '04!", "What AA should I get next, btw B&C '04!", etc, etc.  

It's just one of those cases where whether it's "right" or "wrong" or "violates the current rules" isn't the real issue.  It's obviously had multiple people complain about it, it obvious doesn't relate to EQ or beastlords in any way shape or form.  I really don't care or have issue with your sig, but your logic and behavoir since is flawed in many ways imo.  *shrugs*

[Atropine_BB]

Well Tastian, I disagree with you too.  If my signature does not violate the rules, then why should I not express myself in that way?

It doesn't hurt anyone.  People may disagree with it, but that is what I have chosen to put in my signature.  

Essentially you are saying that if it isn't EQ related I shouldn't put it in my signature?

What if I put a picture of a baby in my signature?  Perhaps if I put a picture of my house or place of work in my signature?  

What if I put a picture of ANYTHING not related to EQ in my signature that is important to me?

I have a feeling that it is an issue simply because of the picture I have chosen to use.

How about if I enlarge and photoshop in something about beastlords into that picture?

Will that satisfy everyone?  I will still be expressing my beliefs, however it will be EQ and beastlord related?

In fact that's a fantastic idea!!!

I will begin working on it today.  I think I'll do...

Beastlords for Bush in '04!!!

Everquest related... Beastlord related... and I'm expressing myself the way I choose.

Thanks guys!

[Jkal_Shihar]

The one I always thought was annoying was that little guy holding up a sign telling you what system you were running and junk.
It's not EQ related but I always saw people with it in there sigs.

[Bulge]

Keep the sig and stop apologizing, or apologize and loose the sig.

[Atropine_BB]

Keep the sig and stop apologizing, or apologize and loose the sig.

Well, Bulge normally I would totally agree with you.  I simply felt an apology was in order as this is a private community and I felt I had caused some frustration because of the picture in my signature.

So, I apologized for any frustration I may have caused, however I have never or will never apologize for my beliefs, principles or the content of my signature.

I am simply apologizing for any frustration caused by the picture, as it wasn't my intent.

I am however going to photoshop the image to include everquest and beastlords to make it more acceptable without changing the underlying message.

[gorgera]

Who cares if you have a political sig?  I don't.  I sure as hell don't come to these boards to learn of philosphy, religion or politics.  I don't boycott the library because it has the piece of shit book called the Communist Manifesto.  So I sure won't be boycotting this board because you have a B&C sig.  Now if you had a pro NAMBLA sig I would think differently.

[Tastian]

Either apologize and mean it or don't bother.  If you want to say that since you aren't breaking "the rules" you can express your opinion openly without regard for your fellow beastlords and not care then do it and be over it.  I've got a few questions for you though...

-  Do you volunteer to help the B&C campaign?

-  Do you walk around wearing a B&C T-shirt full time?

-  Well walking down the street or through the mall or anywhere else do you say "B&C in '04?"

-  What else do you do to support this system and this team that you believe in so much that you just can't hold your opinion inside on a video game based message board for 12 more days?

None of the above are againist any rules I know of and clearly since they don't break the rules you can just go to town and show your opinion that you obviously can't seem to keep inside.  Thanks for putting your opinion and beliefs above the happiness of many other beastlords and causing strife on boards that already have increasing issues because of the state of beastlord affairs.  *shrugs*  Guess I just care too much about other people and their happiness and need to start being far more selfish.

[Atropine_BB]

Yes, I am a Bush team leader in Concord, CA.

I do not wear a T-shirt everyday, however I do wear a baseball cap everyday.  It has a large W and 2004 on it.

I do get a lot of comments on the baseball cap from people everywhere I go.  I'm happy to listen to them and even debate our political opinions if they are so inclined.

I donate to the GOP and Bush campaign.  

I hope those answered your questions Tastian.

I apologized for the discomfort I may have caused as it was not my intention.  However, I will not subjugate my freedom of expression or censor myself when I am not in violation of the rules of this messageboard because of the opinion of a few of our more outspoken members.

I have already received PM's saying that there are members that support me 100%.

[Tastian]

Here is the problem.  I don't mind politics, america or bush.  Totally don't care, don't mind, don't nothing.  Now where do we draw the line?  Do you realize that by absolutely having to post your opinion in a sig you are setting predence for it being ok to post links for nader, for the american nazi party for the KKK for segregation or people who are againist gay marriages and everything else.  You are hiding behind not againist the rules, do you really want to force the moderators to have to spell out everything for us?  

I have no problem with your opinion, I have no problem with talking about politics, but look at what you are opening the door to.  You could make a post in OOC or rants or whatever and debate your case or make your claim for bush, but your sig is in every thread.  In the equipment forums, in the AA discussions, etc.  Politics and basically your ad simply don't belong there.  You realize it's not againist the rules technically for someone to make up 3 accounts with pro-communist party sigs and follow you around to every single thread and post behind you right?  That's not good for the boards, or for beastlords though is it?  If you honestly value yourself that much more than you do these board and your fellow beastlords then good for you way to stand up for what you believe in and grats on having such a high sense of self worth.  I wish I could show such a complete and total child like disregard for others just because "it's not againist the rules".

[Lorathir]

If it isn't an advert, why are you intending on removing it after the election? Why not have "I like George Bush" as your sig, permanently?

[Atropine_BB]

Because after the election there will be no more campaign.  I am not advertising anything, I am simply putting up a picture that has quite a bit of meaning to me.

I will probably put up an American flag or something like that afterwards.  Perhaps a GOP picture.

I will now photoshop something beastlord into the picture, but as I'm at work, that won't happen until tonight.

[Oneiromancer]

What distresses me the most is that people think that it is a partisan thing here...that we are picking on your solely because of your candidate.  This is honestly not the case for me...I can't speak for others of course, although their posts speak for themselves.

Right now I agree somewhat with Liga...if we had a way to ignore users or, less drastically, ignore signatures, this wouldn't be an issue anymore.  Then you could have a picture of John Kerry holding hands with the goatse.cx man in your signature and I wouldn't care at all, since I wouldn't have to see it.  That's the only issue here...many of us simply do not want to see political crap here, regardless of its nature, and their presence in signatures leaves us no way to avoid them.

Game on,

[Jolrash]

Do you realize that by absolutely having to post your opinion in a sig you are setting predence for it being ok to post links for nader, for the american nazi party for the KKK for segregation or people who are againist gay marriages and everything else.

Ok, there is a difference here.  The american Nazi party, KKK and people who are againist gay marriages is descrimintory to Jews, African Americans and Gays.  What does his sig discriminate against?  Most of these orginazations are know for violence and hate crimes.

[Atropine_BB]

In fact, now that I think of it...

Political discussions come up all the time in public channels in places like PoK and the bazaar.

I will usually participate in the discussion as they are in public channels and definitely to my liking.

Essentially even in-game I am a Beastlord for Bush.

I will photoshop my signature tonight to reflect that in the picture I currently have.

That relates to beastlords, as well as situations I have encountered in-game in public channels.  I am essentially a Beastlord for Bush, and my signature will reflect that.  Hopefully that should resolve the problems people are having with my current signature as it does not relate to beastlords yet.

[Tastian]

How can you say that a color graphic with a link to a website promoting something isn't an advertisment?  If I put a link of a big mac in my sig with a link to Mc Donalds.com am I just putting information out there about food? lol  

Look man, if you really want to force the moderators to explain to you that your sig doesn't belong in every section of this video game board that is frequented by people from numerous countries of varying ages then so be it.  

I have no problem with a bush quote in your sig.  I have no problem with "I <3 bush" in your sig (some might though for a different reason lol).  I have no problem with you starting posts in OOC and rants section about america, politics, etc, but these topics don't belong in the equipment section, they don't belong in the AA section.  If you made a post "Vote for B&C in '04" we'd have to move it to OOC.  You are using the kindness of the moderators to break the intent of the boards and of the rules.  No one I've seen yet has had a problem with your choice, your country or your view, but you are opening the door to numerous issues that these boards don't need simply because you value your opinion and your false assumed freedom of speech more than you do this community and your fellow beastlords.