Agility, what's it good for?

[Logato]

I am pretty unhappy with my agility stat, its only 107 right now. All my other stats have come along very well but I was wondering how important agility seems to be.

I know more agi means more AC, but it does seem like a trivial amount more of AC. But since we fight like monks, I was wondering if higher agility scores improve our dodge and parry, and if it lessons the amount of hits we take or their severity.

Anyone know about agility, and if so, if there is a sharp drop off on effect after 100, 140, or whatever value?

[Ghoat]

I think it is generally assumed that agi has some effect of avoidance, but afaik, no one has been able to really parse good hard data to prove it.  It's like dex in that way - you are pretty sure it helps procs and such, but what "magic" levels there are - 150, 200 or whatnot have never been able to be really nailed down to the point that someone says at 65 dex vs 135 dex you will get 1% more procs. Or, at 154 agi, you avoid 1% more damage than at 125 agi.

Agi does help with ac somewhat for sure.  Frankly, I just would not sweat it too much.  If you can get it higher, do it.  If you have to lose a lot of ac, stam, hps, wis or other things that show a *measureable* benefit, then I personally don't think it's worth it.  At the end of the day, having 1 or 2 low stats is really not going to be a detriment to your toon.  Higher is always better, but low stats don's make a toon less viable really.  At least not to the point to be a real problem.

[Logato]

My main reason for asking is I am starting to acquire Ldon armor that has type 2 aug slots. I've been wondering what to buy for them, wisdom, agility, resists or what, and agi and resists are my greatest need, if you just look at numbers.

[Coprolith]

I picked up this chart from the 'net a long time ago. It shows the increase in displayed AC as a function of agility. Unfortunetaly the link to the data is dead now so i cant provide any further details



As you can see, the only real magic number for agility is 75. Below that you take a big hit to AC, which gets worse at higher levels. Above 75 AGI the increase in AC is always the same.
At 200 AGI there's a kink in the graphs, you get diminishing returns on AGI above 200.

As Ghoat already mentioned, the effect of agility is so small its hardly possible to parse out. If you cant parse it out, then you certainly wont be able to see any visible return from AGI in-game. Im not saying you should neglect your agility tho, every bit helps (you cant parse out Combat Agility at lvl 1 either, but we assume it does something). An extra 30 AC doesnt hurt anyone. But because it takes 150 pts of agility to get that extra 30AC, AGI isnt worth sacrificing other stats for. Raw AC, hp's, STR, STA and WIS are more important. Just make sure you dont drop below 75 AGI and you're ok. Eventually as the quality of your gear increases so will AGI.

/hugs

[garios]

Personally for aug slots i would put things that can not be buffed or buffed easy.  More Ft is good.  Proc items and such.  I am personally saving most of my slots for resist augs in them since with a shaman/chanter around you get stats and mana regen pretty easy.  Yes bards and druids can raise the resist but those do not always seem to be around on raids.

[Goretzu]

Agi adds a bit a AC and helps you learn defensive skills (as dex does offensive) and that's about it.

[Ghoat]

Agi adds a bit a AC and helps you learn defensive skills (as dex does offensive) and that's about it.

Or so it is rumored.

But face it, who REALLY has a hard time maxing thier skills as they progress - unless you never get hit, or use one kinda of weapon your whole life.

[Scalewulf]

I think I remember someone parsing that there is a 3% increase in avoidance when going from 198 to 210 in agi or something to that effect.  

So, mine stay above 200.


I don't have the parse or a link to it, but I do remember it as it was the only parse indicating such.

[Goretzu]

Goretzu wrote:
Agi adds a bit a AC and helps you learn defensive skills (as dex does offensive) and that's about it.


Or so it is rumored.

But face it, who REALLY has a hard time maxing thier skills as they progress - unless you never get hit, or use one kinda of weapon your whole life.

Well it was Dev stated that it help you learn defensive skills, now as to the reliablity of Dev statements that's a whole other issue.  :)

[Thrashum Gud]

I don't pretend to understand parsing nor do I really want to.  I do trust my own eyes though and I know for a certainty that the higher my agi the less often I see the red "you've been hit for" messages.

I remember very well how dramatically noticeable it became the first time I ever cast Frenzy and got that +25 insta-boost.  I'm convinced and in the end I guess that's all that really matters.

[Coprolith]

I think I remember someone parsing that there is a 3% increase in avoidance when going from 198 to 210 in agi or something to that effect.

I've only ever once seen a parse on the infamous 200 AGI breakpoint, and if thats the one you are referring to, then you remember wrong. Yes, the total avoidance went up. But it was a 1000 swings parse, and the statistics were so bad that the number of ripostes doubled, dodges increase 50%, block stayed the same and parry decreased. And none of these skills are even affected by any stat. The only thing that should've been affected, the miss rate, actually decreased by 5% but even that was not statistically significant either. The only thing that parse showed is that 1000 swings wasn't even close to enough to show an effect.
Add to that the fact that you dont see a bump in AC at 200 AGI, like you do at 75 AGI then you can pretty much dismiss the notion of a breakpoint at 200. In fact, its far more reasonable to assume that the benefits of AGI follow the AC vs AGI chart, in which case AGI > 200 is futile

don't pretend to understand parsing nor do I really want to. I do trust my own eyes though and I know for a certainty that the higher my agi the less often I see the red "you've been hit for" messages.

I remember very well how dramatically noticeable it became the first time I ever cast Frenzy and got that +25 insta-boost. I'm convinced and in the end I guess that's all that really matters.

If an effect is really noticable in-game underneath the huge statistical variance, then its so large it'll show up in a 5 minute parse. But hours of parsing are required to even show an effect of agility, and even then the best you can narrow it down to is 'a few percent' every 100 AGI. Believe me, you shouldnt trust your eyes to tell you what is happening. For one thing, its your brain that is telling you what is happening, not your eyes. Your eyes just convert photons to electrical signals. Your brain is not equipped to deal with randomness, and with good reason, it's a pattern seeker.  Even now as you are reading these words on your screen, your brain is making up most of it because it knows what to expect. And its incredibly efficient. If you scramble all the words in this text but leave the first and last letter of each word intact, you still have no problem understanding it.  There's a blind spot on your retina where the optic nerve leaves it. It's as big as 150 moons in the night sky. Yet you 'see' no blindspot, because your brain fills the gap with what it expects to be there.
And thats the problem with random behaviour, there's nothing there to be expected. But you do anyway, in this case you want there to be an effect of AGI so your brain starts looking for pattern and suddenly notices the periods in which you get hit less often (by pure random fluctuation) more then it did before.
Everybody has this. If you still dont believe me, just turn on autologging in the eqclient.ini. Next time you get a 'feeling', start a parser and load your log file. It'll be a humbling experience and teaches you to be your own worst critic

A recent example: when the topic came up, several people swore that they could see an increase in hit ratio when there ATK went up. If you've seen my ATK parses then you know how that ends.

/hugs

[EmrysX]

yay @ Copro joining us at this board. :)

[Thrashum Gud]

Damn Coprolith that nearly made my brain explode.

[Kerath]

Agility may also effect the new endurance pool.  I read somewhere that it is determined by averaging strength, dexterity, stamina and agility.

[Soriab]

If you could locate that and post the link, (Hopefully SoE released info) it would be awsome.