screwoff

Author Topic: Top 10 list(10-10-05)...  (Read 46258 times)

Offline Kanan

  • 80 Beastlord
  • Savage Lord
  • ******
  • Posts: 1755
Re: Top 10 list(10-10-05)...
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2005, 06:33:28 pm »
Any feeling on if the Dev's are still adamant against endurance regen except from the AAs and normal sit time?  Cuz Dontpet's thing there would be wonderful.  SA stacks will pretty much all hp/mana regen.  It would be nice to have it have the end component as well.  Make the melee actually have a use for it.
Kez's Magelo 85 "Arch Animist" of Final Empire on Povar

Offline Bengali

  • Wildblood - 70 to 74 Beastlord
  • Savage Lord
  • *
  • Posts: 1001
Re: Top 10 list(10-10-05)...
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2005, 07:00:15 pm »
I can't believe I forgot to mention haste.  That's a big one.  Simply put, our haste should be better (in duration) than the vendor potions.

Quote
I agree that we should have some sort of a resist mod on out DoT's, disagree that shamans should get one.
Shamans get the Malo Line of spells for Cold/Fire/Magic/Poison debuff and the Decay line for Disease debuff.
Adding a resist mod on their dots would be more than a Tad bit unbalancing.

Necros get a poison debuff and their DoTs still have a mod.  Druids have a fire debuff and their fire DoTs still have a mod.  The point of being a debuffing class is that you have a way to help everyone's spells (including your own) land much better, so it doesn't bother me if you can debuff and have a DoT with a mod on it.  Plus, all mods don't have to be the same.  SK poison DoTs have a -100 mod, perhaps because they can't debuff poison the way that necros can, who have a -50 mod on their poison DoTs.

The thing with DoTs is, they aren't really more efficient than nukes most of the time (their damage is wasted because they don't go full duration), there's a limit to how many you can use (30 nukers on a raid do a lot of damag,e 30 dotters wouldn't because of limited debuff slots), and they don't even have a better chance of landing than a nuke (for us, that is).  So given all the disadvantages, my main point is that one tradeoff between nukes and DoTs should be that nukes have a high chance of doing a lot of damage up front and a fairly good chance of landing, whereas DoTs have a high chance of landing and a fairly good chance of doing a lot of damage.

With that said, though, if shamans don't get resist DoTs I won't lose a lot of sleep over it, but I certainly don't see why our DoTs shouldn't have resist mods, because we don't have any resist debuffs at all.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2005, 09:14:56 pm by Bengali »
Savagespirit Bengali Grimmspirit, Scion of Shar Vahl

"My friend Mark said that he saw Bengali totally uppercut some kid just because the kid opened a window.
And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Offline Tastian

  • SoE Correspondent
  • Savage Lord
  • *
  • Posts: 3698
Re: Top 10 list(10-10-05)...
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2005, 07:02:36 pm »
"I agree that we should have some sort of a resist mod on out DoT's, disagree that shamans should get one.
Shamans get the Malo Line of spells for Cold/Fire/Magic/Poison debuff and the Decay line for Disease debuff.
Adding a resist mod on their dots would be more than a Tad bit unbalancing."

Shaman can reduce resists by 70 with sinia, and 55 with malicious decay.  With no resist mods on their dots.

Necros can drop fire by 36, and poison, and disease by 55, and have -30 on curse, -50 on venom, -100 on fire, and -50 on disease.  (-20 on snare)

Now I don't really care either way, but how can you say shaman having resist mods on their dots would be unbalancing when necros already have bigger -resist built into some of their spells than shaman can debuff, *AND* have the ability to debuff some resists almost as well.  I mean 70 from sinia can be resisted, most will run with malos which is only 55 to the resists, which is what a necro can take from poi/dis, but their poi/dis gets a -50 built in save as well.  *shrugs* 


Also when it comes to spells/buffs I'm trying to get some time with ry right now.  I e-mailed him today and hopefully I'll have some new information soon.  I'd like to discuss a couple of buffs, the  bugged healing progression, the usefulness of fero, etc. 

Depending on where they stand on end regen we might see a piece of that.  but it'll really depend how far off they think it is and how much they want to add. 

Fero I see going one of two directions.  Either much more powerful and staying single target, or getting a small boost still, but becoming group.  There will be some on both sides of the issue I'm sure, but at this point I think most would just like to see one of our only class things actually useful and kinda "oooo daddy like" again.

Pet spell/disc targetting I really want addressed, but we have to keep in mind that this isn't a bug.  It's a change to how the system currently works that would require some re-coding and how much is unknown at this time.  I will bring this up a lot and would like to see it changed because I'd like to see more spells like this in the future, but it's not a bug or anything that we can simply say "fix this".  Rather we have to explain the issues and why they should change the system that's in place now.

Lots more, but like I said, this was the light month as some still feel out depths and get the spells/AA/disc/etc.  If ry can find the time to answer a few more questions, then I could see 3 or 4 spots opening up and changes either next month or the month after that depending. 

As always please keep sending the suggestions and pms/e-mails/leggy red-heads.  8)

Offline shenk

  • Feral
  • **
  • Posts: 85
Re: Top 10 list(10-10-05)...
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2005, 08:53:57 pm »
Since we are part shaman (a utility class) I would like to see beastlords distinguished a bit from shaman, mainly maybe an exclusive line of pet buffs that we can use to buff up other people's pet..  Maybe a line like Growl of beast with a damage modifier bonus, or add a DD proc.  Maybe make it 1/2 as effective as spells we can land on our pet, but still allow us to help augment our grups DPS since we have some dps issues of our own.

Offline Baracca

  • Savage
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Top 10 list(10-10-05)...
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2005, 07:08:43 am »

Necros get a poison debuff and their DoTs still have a mod.  Druids have a fire debuff and their fire DoTs still have a mod.  The point of being a debuffing class is that you have a way to help everyone's spells (including your own) land much better, so it doesn't bother me if you can debuff and have a DoT with a mod on it.  Plus, all mods don't have to be the same.  SK poison DoTs have a -100 mod, perhaps because they can't debuff poison the way that necros can, who have a -50 mod on their poison DoTs.

Stayed away from mentioning the other classes since Shaman are one of our Parent classes otherwise would have brought up the other hybrids - rangers/Sks dots both have res mods.
If Shaman are up in arms over the resist mods on DoTs of other classes then we may have a shot at them. If not i doubt we will ever see them on ours because that "would" cause an uproar from Shamans i think. (Remembering the big Stink over IoS.....a quest/parchment level 61 spell became a shaman lvl 49 spell after a few weeks of whining, was not happy about that)
To keep us in line with the Shaman i can see a Gimped version of Malo being added before they modify existing DoTs with a res mod, unless they change shaman dots in the process.
Baracca Smilodon
The Rathe
League of Levity
Kat Toyz

Offline Keba

  • Savage
  • *
  • Posts: 40
Re: Top 10 list(10-10-05)...
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2005, 11:34:54 am »
Lots of important issues listed already, but if there is still room: keep pet focus when zoning.

Dummkopf

  • Guest
Re: Top 10 list(10-10-05)...
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2005, 01:54:03 pm »
Probably not an item for the top 10 list because it has more to do with expansions: Itemization. At the moment we have a big problem getting the most important foci not to mention all foci we could use. There should be a lot more beastlord usable stuff out there that has foci we can and do use.

Haste was mentioned already as well as clicking off pet buffs, a group Alladnu would be very nice (only use IOS around 5% of the time so i dont care). Dots are pretty much useless at the moment, either they dont land or fights are too short to use them so most of the time i dont even mem them anymore, with a little resist modifier that could change though. AE-Ramp is a big issue because it makes having a pet out on raids sometimes just useless, it should be handled like enrage so that special rampaging (like Ture for example) still hits.

It would be a very nice touch to our raid-usability if we get endurance regen added to our SA and Paragon line, both times around the same as mana so that we can actually bring something usefull to a raid.

Offline Kanan

  • 80 Beastlord
  • Savage Lord
  • ******
  • Posts: 1755
Re: Top 10 list(10-10-05)...
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2005, 02:26:30 pm »
Dumm.. that's a good idea re: special ae ramp.

Make it such that pets are immune except for named mobs ae ramp?

Dunno how difficult this would be to implement tho.
Kez's Magelo 85 "Arch Animist" of Final Empire on Povar

Offline Maylian

  • 85 Beastlord
  • Savage Lord
  • ******
  • Posts: 377
  • From the shadows
Re: Top 10 list(10-10-05)...
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2005, 04:16:57 pm »
Just noticed in todays patch message:

- The ATK bonuses for Ward of the Hunter, Howl of the Predator, and Strength of the Hunter have been replaced with Double attack bonuses.

Its nice that rangers get an increase to their utility, but why can't they then make Fero and SV  a DA mod bonus? Or give our buffs some bonus as to why a player would want them. In all my time of raiding i've only ever been asked for SV once because we didn't have any Pally's that raid.

Still would like maybe a FO7 type spell with a small over-stat cap maybe to 400 where shamans Str and Dex are to 450. Group haste that lasts mre than 23mins would be lovely. I've resorted to picking up the haste potions you get in DoDh.

Tast you said before that Pet LoH was bugged hence seeing crits only landing for 14k. Is this still the case? Because i'm getting tired of only healing my pet for a base of 7k on raids since I'm fairly sure its not critting anywhere near as often as well. And definitely make it so we can click of pet buffs, its a damn nuisance when some druid DS's my pet when we're doing a target that you're not allowed to have a DS on.

Sorry for the rant.

Nusa

  • Guest
Re: Top 10 list(10-10-05)...
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2005, 04:44:23 pm »
Think about it for a bit. Attack bonuses stack. Only the highest DA bonus is going to work. Having DA in too many places is self-defeating because only the best one works.

SV just gained utility because it now has the HIGHEST attack value in the line. Howl stacks with it, so the DA bonus can be had also, without hunter. This is one of those cases where a change elsewhere increases OUR utility.

Maximum possible attack values just went down 280 for rangers and 90 for the rest of us, replaced by 50% DA for rangers and 27% DA for others.


Offline hakaaba

  • Arch Animist - 75 Beastlord
  • Savage Lord
  • *
  • Posts: 758
  • Everybody's favorite tiger
Re: Top 10 list(10-10-05)...
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2005, 05:01:56 pm »
Hunter and SV will still not stack.

On a completely unrelated topic, i think they should make invigor and acumen an endurance regen :p

But seriously I do hehe.

It would make the first not have no effect whatsoever and it would make the second actually worth casting and give us some much needed utility to boot.  If acumen gave end regen and they added a modest recast timer, there might actually be a reason to have more than 1 beastlord on a raid.

Arch Animist of Bertox (Saryrn (Mithaniel Marr))

Nusa

  • Guest
Re: Top 10 list(10-10-05)...
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2005, 05:09:25 pm »
But there's no longer any point to using Hunter since Howl of the Predator has a larger DA bonus. Howl DOES stack with SV. Some rangers are going to be pretty upset about that fact, I betcha.

Offline Bengali

  • Wildblood - 70 to 74 Beastlord
  • Savage Lord
  • *
  • Posts: 1001
Re: Top 10 list(10-10-05)...
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2005, 07:32:18 pm »
You may be right, but I'm not sure we can definitively say that they don't stack if the bonuses are in different slots.  Increased crit chance doesn't work that way, for example.  As far as I know this expansion is the only time we've been able to have two effects that increased double attack on at the same time that were in *different* slots.  Sure Ferocity V overwrote Ferocity III, but they both added double attack in the same slot.

Moreover, that would mean that Fists of Wu (monk disc) does nothing for anyone who already has a Ferocity item.  That has slot 4 increase double attack of 6%, and if your assumption was true then it would have zero effect on anyone with Ferocity II or higher.

We also can't rely on the reports coming in that rangers are seeing a near 100% double attack rate even with no ferocity item, because they are using their self buff which increases double attack by 50%, and they already have a pretty high double attack rate to start with.  If they had a 70% double attack rate, then increasing that by 50% would take them over 100% by itself.  Ironically, it seems that beastlords and bards are going to  be the best test subjects for this, as our double attack rates are low enough so that neither Predator nor Hunter will max us by themselves, so it should be easier to tell whether the two effects are stacking.
Savagespirit Bengali Grimmspirit, Scion of Shar Vahl

"My friend Mark said that he saw Bengali totally uppercut some kid just because the kid opened a window.
And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Offline Discordant

  • Arch Animist - 75 Beastlord
  • Feral
  • *
  • Posts: 85
Re: Top 10 list(10-10-05)...
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2005, 08:33:04 pm »
According to the rangers in our guild, they both stack and the percentage given stacks. Meaning SoH + Howl = 50% increase to double atk rate  Meaning that I will not be using SV anymore.

Offline tacyttik

  • Savage
  • *
  • Posts: 39
Re: Top 10 list(10-10-05)...
« Reply #44 on: October 12, 2005, 09:27:10 pm »
According to Lucy:
SoH stacks with Pred, but neither stack with Ward of the Hunter.
SoH does NOT stack with ferocity items, or ferocity tribute.
SoH also does not stack with Tier 1 or 2 bard OoW breastplate's click effects. Clicky does cancel out SoH.
Pred stacks with just about everything still, except for: Rog L57 disc, Berz L70 disc, and Dance of Blades (Bard AA).
Discs cancel pred, but Dance of Blades does not.
Fists of Wu seems to add nothing with any of the ranger buffs (pred, SoH, Ward).

(As a side note, howl of pred does not stack with spirit of pred)
« Last Edit: October 13, 2005, 12:00:00 am by tacyttik »

 






travel-feedback