Spiritual Line Duration Increased (Stealth?)

[Telocsilver]

While I love the duration increase that I have been feedbacking for a long time, that mana increase is stupid.  I have always compared SA to Brells or SoH, both of which already last an hour plus, and cost 325 mana.  We were already paying a higher mana cost for the slightly more useful nature of mana regen vs hp/attack.  Upping the duration just brought us up to where we should have always been.

[Bengali]

Like I said, we just need a single-target version like all those other spells have.

Like I want to have to take up two slots for SA or keep switching back and forth between them.  Single target buffs are the debbil.

[Rarrum]

Do they even remember that bst fizzle more than pure casters?  That by itself gives all our spells a "higher cost".  These high-mana-cost spells are getting to be too common... I mean our mana regen buff went up ONE point in the last year, and in that time out average-cast spell (muada's mending, bestial empathy, and now sa) cost has like DOUBLED.

While we did need some more potent spells, as two years ago we just coudn't burn mana fast enough... this is on the verge or getting silly now.

--

For SA specifically, I'd rather it keep it's old cost and duration than this.  Why?  On raids people die a lot.  On half the people SA never sees it's full duration (the old lesser one even) in many events.  If 3 people die in 3 different groups, thats now 2700 mana+fizzles to get back up.  Before it would be a bit over 1500+fizzles.

Raid wipes are going to be fun now too... (still no way I'd ever waste MPG on SA when it's better used on purrfection of spirit, even if nobody notices it nowadays)

[Tastian]

Some have already mentioned it, but this was a highly requested change.  It was even on the top 10 list multiple times as I recall.  Before this change a beastlord with MGB, SCR3, and EEV still couldn't MGB a full raid, but now even with AA or focus they can.  Yeah the mana cost went up a lot, but so did the duration.  This won't be better for everyone in every case, but overall it's a pretty nice change.

[Shieara]

Change seems fine to me.  Yeah the mana cost is high but it doesn't seem that out of line with other group buffs, especially those that provide mana.

[Nekokirei]

damn.  this kinda hurts soloing beasts who prefer places where they can hunt w/self buffs.  my mana pool is just shy of 5k.  SD is gonna cost almost a 1/5 of my mana to cast.  add in IoS, Kragg, etc and the time i'm lose medding back up--even with paragon--is a kick in the tail.

i see how the timer plays out and the MGB and raids and such, just thought i'd toss in soloing from my perspective.  why couldn't they just gives us another SCR AA?

[Essant]

I dont exactly appreciate this update.  I never burn MGB SA on raids.  MGB is saved for PoS, exclusively.  Tell you what .. I wont mind half as much about the 900 mana cost if they eliminate the GOSH DARN fizzle rate in return.  Nothing is more frustrating than recovering from a rez, using a mod-rod, casting aura of eternity from my cloak, using single-group perfection of spirit, and then blowing the first cast of SA I try to do due to a fizzle.  Fix that, I wont bitch - we'll make a deal =)

But yea .. being the only beastlord on and casting SA .. 900 x 9 - 12 times is going to be a real joy.  I really dont mind the spell duration the way it was.  I understand the reasons why some people wanted it, its so MGB could repop and before it wore off.  And I'm telling ya I think most beastlords that are really raid beastlords would disagree with that logic.

[Tastian]

"I mean our mana regen buff went up ONE point in the last year, and in that time out average-cast spell (muada's mending, bestial empathy, and now sa) cost has like DOUBLED."

While I can't argue that SA's use hasn't scaled all that well and I do hope we see some changes to it still the other issues you mention make no sense to me.

Bestial empathy might cost a lot, but it's crazy burst dps and it's overall more efficent than even nuking.  Sure a beastlord can chain cast and put themselves OOM in many cases, but we could do that throwing SV/CB/etc all over the place too.

Muanda's is still an amazing heal imo.  For those that aren't hard core raiders they can see almost 50% of their HPs back on a crit.  That is without it even being tweaked again yet.  Again, sure the mana cost is high, but the power is quite high too.

nek-  They said no to further SCR AA (SCRM) already.  Also you are just looking at what you spend to start.  The base mana cost went up, but the duration went way up too(especially with focus).  For some people that get to a spot and buff up, then yeah they will spend a bit more mana up front.  However, that will vary.  I know that whenever I go to solo someplace I always rebuff before I log out, then when I log back in to grind some I've got the buffs on me and full mana/hp already.  In that case it's just free duration.  I also know of a lot of times where SA would have faded and I rebuffed it, but we were almost done.  In some cases the rebuffing might mean more at the backend, but you've got a larger window to finish up what you were doing.  Also you have the fact that the buff is staying on other people longer.  Drop a MGB in PoK or some people in tranq or some people leaving the hall or whatever and the buff is there for awhile.

I'm really not trying to sell this change to anyone, but most of hte people that are finding problems with it are pointing out very specific situations that still require further specifics for it to actually still be a problem.  Yes the mana cost went up and that can't be denied, but look at the overall changes and the side effects of that as well as a really bad situation where you are alone, no other bst, a raid wipe, etc.

As for SA, the duration went way up.  Yes sometimes people die and yes there are some cases where you spend a bit more mana, but seriously the functionality of being able to MGB is nice.  We all know that numbers can show anything people want to make them show, but even in the case you mention with multiple dead in multiple groups at the sametime and you as the only bst(no one else helping apparantly) then you spend an extra 1200 mana *and* some people from those groups have to die again before the old duration would be reached or else the new duration starts to kick the effectiveness back up. 

[Gilik]

I think it's great the duration has been increased, I understand completely why that was wanted. I would like to see a single target version of the spell now. I don't see what the problem with that would be, and it would be a great help in situations like soloing. All the spells that the mana cost was compared to have single target versions, I hope ours can too.

[Rarrum]

Muada's and Empathy are nice spells... I just used them an examples of how the mana cost on many of our commonly used spells is way higher that it used to be.  Theres a lot of other examples too... growl of the panther = 650.  The nearly-a-downgrade ferocity of irinou 750.  Back a year ago, a spell thats normaly memmed when fighting over 450-ish mana would have been "a lot higher cost than average".  "Ferocity" was the the only "high" mana cost spell really.

It's just that overall our spell costs have gone up a lot, and mana regen has just fallen way behind it.

[Nekokirei]

nek-  They said no to further SCR AA (SCRM) already.  Also you are just looking at what you spend to start.  The base mana cost went up, but the duration went way up too(especially with focus).  For some people that get to a spot and buff up, then yeah they will spend a bit more mana up front.  However, that will vary.  I know that whenever I go to solo someplace I always rebuff before I log out, then when I log back in to grind some I've got the buffs on me and full mana/hp already.  In that case it's just free duration.  I also know of a lot of times where SA would have faded and I rebuffed it, but we were almost done.  In some cases the rebuffing might mean more at the backend, but you've got a larger window to finish up what you were doing.  Also you have the fact that the buff is staying on other people longer.  Drop a MGB in PoK or some people in tranq or some people leaving the hall or whatever and the buff is there for awhile.

i know they said no more SCR--i'm just looking for some cheese to go with the whine. =)  the timer going up is kinda my point.  granted, less casts, but it'll wear off w/i the time frame when i'll want to refresh other mana instensive buffs.  take in total, that's less nuking/dotting if i idot, that i'll be doing before the timer runs out.  and, after i rebuff, if i'm not ready to retire, i'm gonna lose some of that new extended time while i wait for my mana to regen--and that' s just looking at it from full mana, not 80, 60, 50% w/a fizzle tossed in for giggles and grins.

i feel for beasts w/o paragon and SRC 3.  it's gonna be a tad tougher soloing.

I'm really not trying to sell this change to anyone

i see that, and, i'm not delieberately trying to run down the extention, as i said, i see the usuages of it and whatnot.  it's change, and i'm sure we'll all adapt, i'm  just in that rough patch between the old and the new. =)

[Discordant]

I can see where this change hurts more casual players.  But as a raiding beastlord, I really appreciate the change.  It would fit both worlds if we could get a single target SA spell as well.

[Tastian]

"It's just that overall our spell costs have gone up a lot, and mana regen has just fallen way behind it."

This is true of most classes I can think of.  The devs for awhile felt that mana regen was just too high.  That's part of why we saw the small gain on perfection and why it was lowered in power right when it went live.  I guess I just see this as one of those intended things that perhaps I don't always agree with.  Yeah fero used to be our only really high mana spell, but spell costs in general have gone way up. 

Wizards at 60 had 480 mana for GSS as big nuke.  Now ether flame is 1550.  core fire is 850.  Mages have 1650 for raging servant.  Enc have lots of spells in the 1k+ mana range.


"i feel for beasts w/o paragon and SRC 3.  it's gonna be a tad tougher soloing."

It will actually depend how they play though and how long they play.  In most solo grind situations you don't die hardly ever.  If you go for say 60 minutes, then you get back more mana and hp net from the new version and save over before because you didn't have to refresh it.  If you happen to run just long enough so that you refresh the new one close to logging then it can hurt.  In some cases though solo players will see a gain in efficency from the new version.  *shrugs*

[Nals Picure]

I never burn MGB SA on raids.  MGB is saved for PoS, exclusively

I don't recall the last time I ever needed to use an MGB PoS on a raid.  If a group is hurting on mana (which is extraodinarily rare, and we raid with 36 max thru ikkinz and time) then I drop a TGB para on the group.  What I hate on raids being the only bst is having to go group by group to refresh SA when the mgb one drops, for me,  this change is huge, the mana cost change, is miniscule.

[Khauruk]

What is the mana cost for other hybrid group spells?

Howl of Pred
Brell's
Str. of Hunter
Missing items?

Hybrids just don't have the mana regen rate to keep up with that high of a mana cost.  I get asked for SA constantly on raids.  People ask all the time, and I pretty much never unmem it anymore.  I have FT15, C6, oak and SA on after a rez, and it still takes forever to get anywhere near FM without casting...I know I am missing a few points (5 from items w/ AAs, 6ish from AAs?) of regen, but that's still utterly ridiculous.  I do not have the mana pool to buff a 54 person expedition (7.7kish), much less a 72 person!  I'm just glad I bought pet suspend 3, so I can have an (albeit crappy) pet mostly buffed by the time I accept a rez.

The mana cost versus our mana regen needs to be looked at hardcore - we use more mana by far than most rangers that I know, and more than many pallies (situation dependent) - make ours comparable to theirs, or raise our meditate skill cap.