Spiritual Line Duration Increased (Stealth?)

[Tastian]

Other hybrid buffs aren't really accurate since we are talking about mana regen(and hp regen) here.

dru - BoSO 2210 mana, 1h 40m duration, 9mana per tick(gives ac/hp as well)

enc -  VoC 1300 mana, 1h 20m duration, 20 mana per tick(gives mana/wis/int as well) 

dru version is ~4, enc version is ~12, our version is ~8.  If you just look at the mana portion.  If you wanted to just talk brells/howler/etc then you are talking in the 325-400(ish) range for buffs.

Part of what I don't understand though is...

"Hybrids just don't have the mana regen rate to keep up with that high of a mana cost. "

"I have FT15, C6, oak and SA on after a rez, and it still takes forever to get anywhere near FM without casting"

You are almost capped on FT, you have the right buffs.  I'm going to assume occasionally atleast have a bard going as well.  What is this huge edge that you think pure casters have on you in this case?  Have you ever seen a single cleric, dru, etc try to buff a whole raid?

I know that before the change I could recover from death, have the full raid buffed, and I'd sit around at FM waiting for other classes to recover and get ready.  This was with zero other bst even bothering to mem SA.  I won't deny that it costs more mana and in some cases(frequent deaths/wipes) will be harder to maintain, but you are looking at specific situations and trying to find problems with it. 

[Essant]

Well, it's a big deal to me, Tastain.  My guild dies A LOT.  That's the first thing my guild leader said to me when I applied:  "We die a lot"  And it's true, we do.  I think we wiped about 6 times tonight all together.  Not all nights are like that.  But a good deal of them are.  900 mana per cast vs 650 or 535 or whatever it was sucks big time.  That's like dieing and getting to full mana and rebuffing a raid and being at near 50m before, and dieing and getting to full mana and being OOM.  Which is even longer then for me to be in position to maximize my dps.  Mana is a big deal.  HUGE big deal.  Especially with the new DoD pet spell.  Being able to do a full mana dump on a raid mob now nets in some pretty significant DPS, and the secret more than anything else right now in being able to do good damage .. its all about the mana.  I can't be crawling to catch up to FM before the raid is ready to engage again.  I'm just glad that I basically have as much FT as you can possibly get, and my foci is pretty much in order.  I know you like to sugar-coat things when we say things suck, but NO .. this SUCKS.

[Bengali]

For me, in some situations it will suck, but in the vast majority of cases it won't.  If I ever feel like I'm too low on mana then I'll refer buff requests to one of the other beastlords who does have mana.  If none of us have what we feel is an acceptable amount of mana and people still have to have SA, then they are just going to wait.

Mana is a big deal, but my belief is that it should be.  Otherwise there's no difference between a beastlord with a 7k mana pool and one with an 11k mana pool.  That's just my opinion, of course.

[Jkal_Shihar]

I'm agreeing with Tast on this.
It's not that bad of a change. Sure the mana might be steep, sure the timer got extended but have you ever asked the cleric hows mana for group conv/virtue. Shamans can pretty much canni themselves, necros can feed mana to themselves and who needs it. Bards, well we know what bards do.
After reading a bunch of these, it seems some want something handed on a silver platter. I hate to say it but its true. I'm not even at full FT anymore but I still regen mana pretty fast.
I am bout 1k shy of where my wifes clerics mana is and she will flat out tell you, 00m till she can mgb raid. You are not seeing the other buffing classes aspect in this. Just your own. Sure this might hurt solo'rs a bit, but, I usually recover what I cast by the time I get to where I wanna solo for the night if its one of those nights.
I just dont know what some of you are hurting so bad on mana that makes this not good *shrug* I found regenning mana was faster then regaining health in some aspects. Maybe, I'm just playing a different game.

[shenk]

I like the new timer, I'll pay a bit more mana to not have to recast it as often.  If you raid, I always thought it was wrong that one of the spells most requested by beastlords timer was less than the MGB timer, meaning you either had to have 2 beastlords to MGB it, or single group cast it (which really sucks my mana down).

The only downsides I've encountered is regen after a wipe, before I'd just paragon my group and quickly get the mana needed to SA.  The other downside is when I die solo'ing.  But if you rez in Guild Lobby, just click paragon and go in the guild hall, and you're back up in no time.

I do wish we were given a single target version, 900 mana gets steep when you have 1 death in a raid, or someone late and you need to recast it on their group for 1 person.

[jitathab]

Next time we ask for something we need to include all the parameters.
What we asked for = 1hr 12 SA.
What we should have asked for  = 1hr 12 sa for the same mana

[tunr]

I am about 4.3k raid buffed on mana at lvl 65 with the gimp gear I have.
I only have a regen +2 item, IR 3 and MC 1,
The spells I add to that are KEI/Clair, Steeloak and Symb and SD and I think my mana regen is pretty fast.
Add to that when I am LoM I will break out the Horse/Drog/boar to help speed things along.


Right now I am the only Bst on my guild raids so I make it a point to make sure all groups have SD. I dont nuke as often as I should, with a 67+ shammy and chanter on the raids most of the time I dont slow. Most of the time my DoT's get resisted so I dont cast it after 3 resists. I do the same thing for my cold nukes as well (stop casting it after 3 resists in a row).

I try make sure I have Growl of the Lepord up and that eats alot of mana for me.

I am probably not putting out as high a DSP rate as most on this board doing things this way but I find that in Raid situations I am almost never below 40% mana. On the other hand when I am soloing I am always less than 50% mana most of the time.

[Brumbkab]

Next time we ask for something we need to include all the parameters.
What we asked for = 1hr 12 SA.
What we should have asked for  = 1hr 12 sa for the same mana

I totally agree with this. Seems the only problem ppl have is that the mana cost went up. That is the only complaint I really see. I still think with an extension of time the mana cost would have to go up. Its too bad we had not discussed this prior to it going live so that everyone would of been prepared. I am glad the extension time has been given to us. I know alot of ppl had asked for it. I am a soloing beast and will adjust my soloing to compensate for the mana cost.  I am glad I dont have to cast this spell so much anymore though. I hate rebuffing myself when I am fighting. I just feel that takes away from my dps.

oh, just a thought, now that we see what a request for added time on spells does. We need to be prepared for added cost IF they every change our haste line.

Brumbkab the troll

[Sharrien]

I can see why the duration was increased so that MGB would pop before it faded.  That's a good thing for some I guess.  For me personally, the increased recovery time after death is a lot more significant since we almost always save MGB for paragon/perfection.  On Time raids we usually have enough beast power to paragon the raid once or twice on each named from the Zek brothers on up.

Recovering from death is common for us.  Right now we are progressing through Ikky and Uqua, raids where it is rare for the timer to expire on SA even before the duration extension on the 12th.

Hmmmmm.....if we could get the perfection line bumped up so that hitting it after death would give us enough to call  a pet, growl and cast SA, that might be a good thing.  :)

[Skratz]

Solution is simple guys.  Tell the clerics you have to steal their necros if they want SA.

[Kanan]

since I'm sorta friendly with most of the necro's here, I think they might actually listen when I ask em for a few feeds.  The only times I'll ask for feeds tho are the few times I just needed that lil bit of seed mana to get me started.  Then I'd find myself getting sprayed by all the necro's ;p  I guess for my seed mana, I'll need to start asking for half a dozen feeds vs the old 3 or 4 I used to ask for.

[jitathab]

Quick derail - Sharrien - In Time what mobs are you using Paragon on? Zek bros AE's are avoidable if take two steps back.

Bert and CT AE's can be 95% avoided by 1 bard in the raid triangle singing (hint start on the opposite side of the room before engaging the melle to avoid the first AE which is the only painful one) i.e. place tanks in front of healers with a bard on a wall and wall pin, mellee long way away MT calls assist everyone else moves in.

Inny and RZ dont AE anything that I recall which just leaves quarm, which yeah if people dont have Vet AA can get nasty.

Or am I taking you too literaly.

[Chickennuggets]

Not too much worse I can think of than being sprayed with a Necros seed   :-o

[Discordant]

Theres a solution if you are having trouble rebuffing single targets that die frequently: SD.  2 mana/tick during the course of a fight is not going to make that much of a difference.  So for those clamoring that it takes too much mana to SA people that die, just load SD and use it.  Its not the most wanted solution, but its a better solution than renerfing SA down to what it was.

The only real problem I see is after wipes, and for guilds that only have one or two beastlords.  It just takes splitting up SA duty now.  Generally we have 4 beasts on, so we will now just split SA between them instead of having one person doing them all.

I agree with Tastian though.  People are trying to find specific situations where its a bad deal, where overall, its a good thing.

[Essant]

No.  Overall its pointless.  If you have a guild that sits on their butts for 30 minutes before they move out, maybe its not.  If you have a guild that sits in one zone and raids it for 2-6 hours at a time straight with very litttle deaths like Ikkinz or PoTime, then its not pointless.  But for the stuff I do .. its pointless.  Anguish: 2 hours to clear.  One recast and thats one recast whether it was 50 minutes or 90 minutes .. pointless!  If we do DoN dragons .. Yar'Lir, Kess, Rikki, Vish .. assuming we dont wipe, and we might only on Vish .. less than an hour event each and you get fresh buffs before you start, even if you hit multiple targets in one night ... pointless!  Cutting our teeth on new stuff that no one on the server is killing yet, like Matriarch, Queen, Vule .. oh and hey demiplane of blood now?  Lots of deaths .. LOTS of deaths .. pointless pointless pointless!  And for the record I never asked for the buff duration to be increased .. that may have been ya'll .. but not me.  Glad you like the change, I don't.